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French Police Unsure Which Twin To Charge In Sexual Assaults
An anonymous reader writes "In a real life Prisoner's Dilemma taking place in the French city of Marseille, twin brothers have been arrested for a string of sexual assaults. While say they are sure that one of them committed the crimes (corroborated by a standard DNA test), police were told that it would cost upwards of €1m euros (£850,000, $1.3m USD) to distinguish between them using DNA evidence."
"Prisoner's Dilemma" does not just mean "a dilemma involving prisoners"
Just charge the one with the goatee.
Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
Will someone with a better understanding of genetics please explain how a genetic test is even possible?
My understanding is that identical twins -- arising from the same zygote -- are genetically identical. Not just "pretty much identical" as the article states.
What possible "genetic test" is being proposed that could differentiate between the brothers? Is the town being scammed?
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
How exactly is the innocent one proclaiming his innocence obstructing justice?
captcha: unproven
While '1 million euros' is a big scary number(and certainly higher than evidence handling for more prosaic cases), it isn't exactly free to have a bunch of cops go around swabbing at evidence, a judge, some lawyers, a jury, etc. Processing a case, especially a serious criminal case, just isn't inexpensive. Given the existing acceptance of the relatively high cost of justice, it seems strange to wring hands about an abnormally high cost cropping up in an abnormal case.
Even if justice didn't demand it, it seems like it would be trivially sensible to just quietly pay what it costs to get the DNA analyzed properly, if only to deter others from trying to get cute.
Wow, logic fail. I hope I never see you in a jury...
Perhaps then bill each of them for half the cost, for not cooperating.
Who says the innocent one isn't cooperating?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
... and that's why those of us in civilised countries consider the US to have a similar legal system to the brutal Sharia law of countries like Afghanistan, Somalia and Mali, among others.
Identical twins isn't the interesting case. It's the conjoined twins that are the real puzzle. Suppose there are a pair of conjoined twins. One is an artist and hates computers, one is a programmer and hates art. Everybody knows this and will testify to the fact. When the artist goes to sleep, the programmer whips out a laptop and hacks into the Pentagon. He gets caught, gets arrested, and admits guilt... what are you going to do, imprison him?
Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
Here in the Red States of America the prosecution is allowed to specifically threaten you with any ridiculous charges they want to get you to accept a plea bargain. Somehow coercion is allowed for both the police and the prosecution.
Whereas in the good, honest Blue States of America, we just threaten hackers for political gain until they commit suicide. Much less expensive.
The justice system shouldn't be haggling over price.
They have suspects they are sure that did it. They have a method of determining which one, but they are dicking around because of cost?
Unacceptable.
When you are wielding life and death IN MY NAME you better get it fucking right. Unjust imprisonment is rape too. Perhaps we should throw some accusations at you and see what sticks, for the greater good, of course.
Good-bye
Of course, only one of them is a rapist. A ball-peen hammer or garden sheers to the knuckles of the innocent twin evokes quite a bit more sympathy....
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
What system should replace the USA system of justice that jails more citizens per capita than any other western nation?
Anarchists never rule
It sounds a little implausible, but perhaps I am unaware of the forensic issues. Due to massive improvements in DNA sequencing, it costs less than $10,000 to acquire a full genome (see https://www.genome.gov/sequencingcosts/ ). So, back-of-the-envelope:
(a) $20k to acquire both genomes, plus
(b) some computational effort to identify interesting DNA polymorphisms ($0 - $1000 ???), plus
(c) PCR'ing out and sequencing of a region of the crime-scene DNA (cheap; less than $100).
So $22k, not counting labor costs?
IAAMB (I am a molecular biologist), but not a forensic one. Maybe it just doesn't work that way. Anyone have other information?
But what if the innocent one has no evidence, or no alibi that will stand up to prove his innocence?
Then, you're relying on the guilty one to do the right thing and confess so his brother isn't jailed. He's a rapist, do you really want to rely on his good nature?
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne
A ball-peen hammer or garden sheers to the knuckles works wonders
[citation required]
All the evidence I have seen indicates the opposite. Torture is a horribly ineffective means of finding the truth. In fact, throwing a coin is probably better.
If it isn't obvious why, the very simplified causation is roughly this: As torture proceeds, the goal of the victim becomes very simple: Make it end, no matter what. We KNOW that people will readily admit to crimes they did not commit under torture, including crimes that carry the death penalty. We know that people under torture reach a point where they would not only say "yes" but also thank you for it if you offered to kill them right then and there. We know that they will invent not only details of the crimes they are being questioned about, but also entirely new crimes.
We have historic evidence of people admitting crimes under torture where later investigations found conclusive evidence that they could not possible have committed them.
Torture does not work if your goal is truth.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
... and that's why those of us in civilised countries consider the US to have a similar legal system to the brutal Sharia law of countries like Afghanistan, Somalia and Mali, among others.
There are those of us in the US who agree that the US legal/penal/justice systems are brutal, regressive, unjust, and counterproductive, and do what we can to change that, but at the same time are opposed by authoritarian-types who claim that various improvements proposed by "bleeding-heart liberals" equate to being "soft on crime." However, my state struck down the judicial death penalty a few years ago and decriminalized marijuana possession last year, so I still have hope that improvements can continue, at least at the state level.
Thank you, Edward Snowden.
"Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan