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French Police Unsure Which Twin To Charge In Sexual Assaults
An anonymous reader writes "In a real life Prisoner's Dilemma taking place in the French city of Marseille, twin brothers have been arrested for a string of sexual assaults. While say they are sure that one of them committed the crimes (corroborated by a standard DNA test), police were told that it would cost upwards of €1m euros (£850,000, $1.3m USD) to distinguish between them using DNA evidence."
"Prisoner's Dilemma" does not just mean "a dilemma involving prisoners"
Justice would demand they spend the money to be sure.
Failing that, charge neither.
Wouldn't it be a lot easier to get a confession by letting them know they had spent the money and proved it was (one or the other) them and then offer a deal for a plea , and a confession that matches the evidence? Maybe I am missing something. Of course they could just spend the money, it's not like 1mil is some huge sum in the scheme of things.
I have always wondered what would happen when this type of suspect turned up.(suspect having an identical twin)
Every set of identical twins I have known, has deliberately used the 'identity confusion' at some point.
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
What if both of them were pointing at the other and saying "he did it!"
If AC actually bothered to read the definition of the prisoner's dilemma he would have determined that this is not the same situation. Sounds good, but wrong. You have two individuals, both know who the guilty party is. The best strategy for each to play is to proclaim their innocence.
That would be illegal and probably unconstitutional in most western countries.
If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
Prisoner's Dilemma?
Nah, the good answer each of them have to speak out is:
"I'm sure my brother will tell you he knows I haven't done anything I'm charged with".
Then, smile :-)
Sincerely,
Franz Rogar
Sounds like a perfect opportunity for a DNA identification company to get free PR for their services.
Is most of the cost from the machine? Or the scientists operating it and performing all of the tests?
Sometimes justice is expensive; and sometimes it makes mistakes - but if you can get a definitive answer from a reliable, available test; do it.
Perhaps then bill each of them for half the cost, for not cooperating.
Just charge the one with the goatee.
Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
But what if they're triplets? It'll just be the same escalation!
Will someone with a better understanding of genetics please explain how a genetic test is even possible?
My understanding is that identical twins -- arising from the same zygote -- are genetically identical. Not just "pretty much identical" as the article states.
What possible "genetic test" is being proposed that could differentiate between the brothers? Is the town being scammed?
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
How exactly is the innocent one proclaiming his innocence obstructing justice?
captcha: unproven
While '1 million euros' is a big scary number(and certainly higher than evidence handling for more prosaic cases), it isn't exactly free to have a bunch of cops go around swabbing at evidence, a judge, some lawyers, a jury, etc. Processing a case, especially a serious criminal case, just isn't inexpensive. Given the existing acceptance of the relatively high cost of justice, it seems strange to wring hands about an abnormally high cost cropping up in an abnormal case.
Even if justice didn't demand it, it seems like it would be trivially sensible to just quietly pay what it costs to get the DNA analyzed properly, if only to deter others from trying to get cute.
Wow, logic fail. I hope I never see you in a jury...
Congratulations, you are an insufferable, unimaginative prick. Go and stick your hands in a blender.
Saw this on an episode of Law & Order Special Victims Unit.
And they say television isn't educational...
Be seeing you...
Yes, there are a lot of issues and flaws with it, but it's one option. Another would be to come up with a huge list of possible things that only the criminal would know based on the crimes and quiz them and their whereabouts at the time. Yes, you can lie, but it will be very difficult to come up with enough lies until there is a flaw. One twin may actually have a legitimate alibi (receipt) at the time of the sexual assault with verifiable proof (security cam or employee). If one is given enough time, I bet you can come up with quite a few ways to determine the culprit. You just need enough puzzle pieces to fit together that count as proof enough. If both are guilty, then good, else it's a horrible injustice to a free man. At least we now know that someone actually does have an "evil twin."
The G
I am not a French Lawyer. Here in the USA lying about the evidence would not be coercion. Police are allowed to lie to the suspect, as long as real evidence goes to court. Coercion is a specific threat or harm, like starving the person for days.
How is claiming you didn't commit a crime when you didn't commit a crime illegal?
And what value is an accusation from someone that neither witnessed the crime, nor has even any hearsay about it?
Unless you mean the one that did commit the crime is obstructing justice. in that case, yup, you can tack that on to his charges. Unless he decided to invoke his right to remain silent or his right not to incriminate himself (pretty sure France has those), in that case... ?
Face it, your idea just sucks.
only crimes where DNA is left in way that can be used.
hard to have that happen with a gun or robing a bank.
... and that's why those of us in civilised countries consider the US to have a similar legal system to the brutal Sharia law of countries like Afghanistan, Somalia and Mali, among others.
Police time + court time + prison time = $$$. I just did a quick check in Norway and at least here it'd equal the cost of 13-14 years of prison time. Sounds totally reasonable to me to get a serial rapist behind bars, I'm guess they're just trying to make the twins realize the futility of their position or to make the government step in with extra money to fund this so it doesn't come out of the local budget. I'd be extremely surprised if they're let go with the message that we couldn't afford to figure out which of you was guilty. In particular because there's nothing stopping them from continuing to assault women. But I'm guessing it's quite possible that they're both in on it and so neither would like the police to solve the case.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
One is guilty, the other is accessory. Both are obstructing justice.
[citation needed]
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
I'm in Canada, and the rules may be different but since they have DNA that narrows down to these twins, they are suspects.
Since they are suspects in fairly serious crime, interrogation amd a polygraph would be the simplest amd probably cheapest route at this point.
Again, laws may be different over there.
Wait...does this mean my plan to cause another Big Bang using a giant cannon isn't going to work?!
Big apple, new Yorik, undig it, something's unrotting in Edenmark.
For a win you'd need to slap the bill on the low life that DID rat on his brother.
Here in the Red States of America the prosecution is allowed to specifically threaten you with any ridiculous charges they want to get you to accept a plea bargain. Somehow coercion is allowed for both the police and the prosecution.
Let's say Twin A did it.
You presume that Twin B has proof of either their own innocence, or Twin A's guilt.
If Twin B does not, saying "it wasn't me" is not obstructing justice - it's telling the truth, even if Twin A tells a lie when saying the same thing.
Saying "It was him!", similarly, is of no help.
A completely dissimilar, and yet similar, situation occurred in NL a good while back; 'Nijmeegse Scooterzaak' Two kids on a moped, on the run from police, fatal accident. The prosecutor could not prove which of the two was the one operating the vehicle (each said it was the other). As a result, neither could be charged for anything too meaningful.
A lot of people did say "just charge them both, and find them both guilty", but there were quite a few people who said that if we, as a society, go down that road, that would be a terrible mistake to make - considering you are then willingly and knowingly finding an innocent person guilty; even if you don't know which of the two (or more) is the innocent one; also the opinion of the court that reluctantly let them off the hook for the greater charges.
The prosecutor has decided to appeal, though, which would land the case in something of an equivalent to a U.S. Supreme Court. I have no idea when the case is supposed to be heard, however.
It's actually kind of messed up that they would get away with passing such a law. They aren't allowed to imprison you without due process (except in the situations in which they've given themselves that power because nobody can stop them) but they can make various forms of not committing a crime a crime in itself.
Lawmakers also like to thwart due processing by writing things in saying "x will be construed as sufficient evidence of blah blah."
From the article:
The 24-year-old unemployed delivery drivers, named locally as Elwin and Yohan, were placed under investigation on Friday.
Are they now unemployed or are they delivery drivers? And how likely is it that two twins have the "same job"?
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Which to you imprison for rape and which for contempt?
Also, odds are they are both claimign to be innocent.
How is it contempt to claim innocence when you actually are?
You reply is ignorant.
Whereas in the good, honest Blue States of America, we just threaten hackers for political gain until they commit suicide. Much less expensive.
Why not use fingerprint evidence (if there is some).
The justice system shouldn't be haggling over price.
They have suspects they are sure that did it. They have a method of determining which one, but they are dicking around because of cost?
Unacceptable.
Take the tests and pay whatever the costs are.
After the results are in slap the bill on the twin that did not rat on his brother.
They're unemployed. Good luck getting one to pay the bill.
Maybe someone could set up a BOINC project to do this analysis to lower the cost?
Can someone please explain why a more sensitive DNA test costs 1.5 million? I'm not sure I'm buying this.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Is a million dollars a lot of money for a murder trial?
Prosecuting a murder case can easily cost more than a million dollars - and that's not even including the public defender's costs if defendant doesn't pay for his own defense.
So instead of using the magic that is DNA they might have to actually really do some police work? 6 attacks and both have airtight alibis? No other evidence at all except eye witnesses who cannot tell them apart? Honestly this simply sounds like they need to look harder and if that doesn't work then fine take the budget hit and do the test. Heck, are they sure no lab would donate some effort towards this? Cost shouldn't be what stops the conviction or sure as hell it will give other's ideas.
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
That's no limitation that's a benefit. Better that some guilty go free to avoid an innocent going to jail. Or at least that's how it's supposed to work but prosecutors game the system to get their stats up. As tempting as it might be to throw them both in jail I think maybe it would be better if both rotted, apart, until the testing was done since sure as hell one of them did do it.
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
You are absurd.
Even I would RAT on my brother if he committed murder or raped a woman.
If he would rape a friend of mine I would the gods forgive me kill him myself!
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I happened in Berlin: http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-perfect-crime-twins-suspected-in-spectacular-jewelry-heist-set-free-a-614245.html
I think there have been other occasions too.
Do the test and have the guilty guy pay the bill.
And then judge specifically asks you if you have been coerced or promised anything and you say 'no, your honor' and everyone in the room winks at each other.
Good-bye
Isn't that a pretty likely situation? The chances of a younger, unattached person being alone when not at work are fairly good, even better at night when they're asleep. Heck, the 'evil' twin probably knows a lot about 'good' twin's schedule, and could just plan accordingly.
$1.3M USD is exorbitant. There are labs that will run a sample on an Affy Genome-Wide SNP array for $230. While I can't guarantee that it will differentiate the two samples, the odds are actually pretty good (there's nearly a million SNPs on the array, and nearly a million copy number probes). As a matter of fact, there are several papers comparing twins (and finding differences) using this method. For example: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0017125 and http://bloodjournal.hematologylibrary.org/content/115/17/3553.full.pdf -- and an older version of the array http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2893889/
TL;DR - for less than $700 they could run a test that would be able to tell which twin matches their evidence (plus $230 for each additional piece of evidence tested).
Throw them both in jail until one confesses. If they want to act like children they can be treated like children..
The summary makes us think that one is guilty based on one victim's identification and the less-than precise DNA test. The problem with the current DNA test is that it does have false positives (where the test would conclude the match, but it would be the wrong person). Imagine if none of them committed the crime and the DNA test in this case has the false positive. What do the twins have to do?
Absolutely the police has to do the complete DNA test. Maybe they are afraid that it will show that neither is guilty?
There's no such thing as "illegal download"
Comment removed based on user account deletion
It's not as though it's unheard of for identical twins to have similar hobbies...
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
This is why those of us the US remember that our ancestors proved democracy is possible and led the way for freedom.
Sure, some aspects of your law and society are better, but it seriously pisses me off when people like you act as though we have a military dictatorship. (Especially while flaunting how your government has taken away certain freedoms in the name of "fairness".) I have more freedoms than some of you ever will.
All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
The innocent one is not necessarily obstructing justice - if they're both claiming they are innocent, one is lying and one is telling the truth.
The one that's telling the truth, he's not obstructing justice.
Unless he has evidence that the other one did it and he's withholding it or something similar to that.
Both of them proclaiming their innocence however - the one that is telling the truth is not obstructing justice.
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne
No, because one is innocent. He's not lying when he says he didn't do it. If he has no evidence that implicates the other one, then he's screwed if they both get a guilty sentence.
If he has evidence that one way or the other proves his innocence (either by establishing an air-tight alibi, or proving the guilt of the other twin), and he's withholding it, then that's something else altogether.
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne
I am now an expert on criminal justice. The crime may have been committed by both. Of course I could be wrong. Oh well, no harm done.
Sentence both to half time? So basically if one of them is innocent he is screwed -- all to save some money? Meanwhile the guilty one is guaranteed only 50% of the time. Btw, I think the sentence should be life in prison or possibly death penalty. So what's half of life sentence or death penalty?
Agreed.
In the last few years the cost of this kind of sequencing has plummeted and will continue to do so. As long as it's still within the statue of limitations there, if there is one, in just a handful of years it will cost only a few hundred dollars to sequence both twins and detect all mutation differences between them as well as all epigenetic differences (the methylation that turns genes on and off). So eventually the mounties will get their man.
The fuck? How on earth is it a conspiracy of any kind to claim yourself to be innocent when you are?
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
I think what he meant is that the brother who is lying, and saying his brother did it, is the real low life (as he is not only a rapist, but tried to implicate his brother). I could be wrong though.
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
Interesting idea :D
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Just by existing the innocent one is providing a false alibi for the guilty one. A sufficiently creative prosecutor could make an obstruction charge out of that.
Unfortunately, I wouldn't put it past some of our US prosecutors to try that one.
Then you'd get a third, spiky-haired lawyer pointing, yelling 'OBJECTION!'
Tell both of them: One of the assault victims suffers from a nearly always fatal STD. We have an antidote, but the side effects are rather nasty. Now, who wants it?
A little itching powder in the shorts applied in the jail laundry should provide some additional motivation.
Have gnu, will travel.
... and that's why those of us in civilised countries...
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the actual facts of the matter are that most of you in civilized countries don't appreciate how your own legal system works.
I think what he meant is that the brother who is lying, and saying his brother did it, is the real low life (as he is not only a rapist, but tried to implicate his brother). I could be wrong though.
I just read through the article, and nowhere does it say that either brother accused the other. In fact, I saw nowhere where it says they made any sort of statement whatsoever. The whole article is that the cops believe that at least one of them did it, but due to the nearly identical DNA, they can't determine which one was the culprit. This entire discussion is nothing more than empty speculation on something never mentioned in the story.
This space unintentionally left blank.
I'd donate money to get an innocent man exonerated.
They both accuse each other...?
There's other evidence that can be collected. Certainly you might be able to collect enough to rule out one of the twins, which leaves the other as the only suspect with matching DNA and no alibi, etc.
Everyone knows twins can magically feel everything the other one does, so it doesn't matter which one "actually" committed sexy crimes... the other got to feel it too, so they are both guilty.
Have we forgotten about simple things like, for example, establishing who was where and when? You know, alibis?
If it's a "string" of rapes, surely one of the brothers has an alibi for one of them, at least?
expandfairuse.org
Burn the witch!
Whereas in the good, honest Blue States of America, we just threaten hackers for political gain until they commit suicide. Much less expensive.
Probably somewhat influenced by the fact that the democrat AG only had a 4% lead on the republican candidate in the last election -- must be trying to impress the borderline voters.
Inshallah, you are absolutely right. Police lying to murder and rape suspects is morally and culturally equivalent to culturally sanctioned rape, communal stoning (at least they're well socialized), and honor killings. How silly of us to think otherwise. Allah ackbar!
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
So you are admitting to having committed conspiracy?
After all, you have not come forward to report my crimes, so as you said you are clearly guilty of conspiracy for keeping quiet and for claiming innocence yourself.
Apparently the fact you and this twin brother were not aware of the others crimes is beside the point.
This entire discussion is nothing more than empty speculation on something never mentioned in the story.
Well I'm sitting in an armchair*... Aren't you sitting in an armchair? I thought we were all sitting in armchairs.
* To add further credence, I'm also wearing a monocle and smoking a pipe.
Thank you, Edward Snowden.
"Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
... and that's why those of us in civilised countries consider the US to have a similar legal system to the brutal Sharia law of countries like Afghanistan, Somalia and Mali, among others.
There are those of us in the US who agree that the US legal/penal/justice systems are brutal, regressive, unjust, and counterproductive, and do what we can to change that, but at the same time are opposed by authoritarian-types who claim that various improvements proposed by "bleeding-heart liberals" equate to being "soft on crime." However, my state struck down the judicial death penalty a few years ago and decriminalized marijuana possession last year, so I still have hope that improvements can continue, at least at the state level.
Thank you, Edward Snowden.
"Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
You don't get to be convicted just because you probably committed some of a list of crimes.
So, in France, things are different than in the U.S.?
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
You've got the whole culture of prison rape thing, and you have the highest prison population of any country because your increasingly insane "War on Drugs" means that people get long prison sentences for possessing the kind of amounts of cannabis that the police in other countries (the UK included) wouldn't even bother confiscating (although here depending on how arsey the police officers involved are, they might make you throw it in a bin, and pretend not to notice if you fish it out once they've gone up the street a bit).
You may not have "communal stoning" in the sense that you actually throw rocks at people, but you do have a strong mob mentality and the drive to ruin people's lives over minor infractions. For example, there are people right now in America who are on the sex offender register because they were naked in their own back garden. These people are denied the right to vote, and denied most jobs, simply because *someone* decided to call the police because of something they were doing in private. I think that's pretty close.
Honour killings you *probably* don't have, but you do have a culture where people subscribe to this Roy Rogers fantasy where if they carry a gun and someone tries to mug them, they can just shoot the bad guy's gun right out of his hand and everything will be okay. Police officers who carry guns have to spend a hell of a lot of time on the range practicing, and they probably can't do that. What's the bets that these "guns make us safer" nutcases couldn't even hit their assailant, and end up injuring someone else - or worse?
Some, yes, but compared to the UK and EU you don't.
How's that Data Protection Act coming along? Are companies still allowed to sell all your personal information to anyone who wants it?
Have you figured out how to fix your libel laws yet? Basing the decisions on who can show up with the most money for lawyers, instead of the actual facts seems a bit wonky from here.
I could go on, but I won't. Oh, but before you mention CCTV, American cities have just as many CCTV cameras as anywhere else - but you've got armed police ready and willing to shoot you thrown into the mix too. Last I heard, no-one had ever been shot and killed by a CCTV camera.
I have attended jail in the capacity of the wrongfully convicted.
It sucked
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
The mind control is working.
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
That one really got me, that I wasn't allowed to plead no contest and they forced me to perjure myself, both with the actual guilty plea, and stating I had not been coerced or promised anything. I hate lying, but it got me out of a five year sentence for a crime that never occurred.
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
I'm quite sure democracy was proved to be possible a long time before the US was even a thought in someone's mind.
Make it do something good for once.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
It's "A Tale of Two Cities" all over again!
You. Face front!
You. Left face!
Cut the cost.
Back on topic: The one that sleeps better at night is your man, he's been caught.
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
Just ask one of the twins, "Who would your brother say committed the crime?" ;)
This is the best restaurant I ever eat in
Well, in fact you could write a sentence like that, but a reader would stumble about it, like I did. ..." or "the unemployed, former lawyer," or perhaps "the unemployed who used to be a delivery driver" etc.
You rather would write something like "the unemployed culprit, a baker by trait
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
If someone commits suicide over the prospect of 6 months in jail for committing a crime you're guilty of you can't blame the prosecutor. Especially when you deliberately break said law as an act of civil disobedience.
The whole point of civil disobedience is to show the law is unjust by letting "justice" carry itself out.
Maybe someone could set up a BOINC project to do this analysis to lower the cost?
This is a job for Kickstarter!
I am simply wondering it if was possible to accuse both of them since it is not even clear whether one or both brothers carried out the crimes. In other words, if both guys are prime suspects, what prevents the authorities from moving forward to put them both on trial? Many of the responses automatically assume that only one of them is actually guilty, whereas the articles I have read indicated that the evidence suggests at least one of them is guilty.
They are in fact triplets and the triplet no one heard about, not even these two, actually committed the crime!
Call me if you want to sign a publishing deal.
"If someone commits suicide over the prospect of 6 months in jail for committing a crime you're guilty of you can't blame the prosecutor."
When someone engages in civil disobedience you can't just shift the blame from the people who are committing the injustice onto the protestor simply because he knew they would do something unjust in response to his action. That would render the exercise pointless.
Blame works like a digital file not like a physical pie. One person taking some portion of it doesn't reduce or dilute what is left for everyone else.
Sorry I forget sometimes how successfully the powers at be have managed to partition everyone in the US into two groups targeted at one another while both acting in the interests of the powers at be and spinning their actions as support for one side or the other.
United States of America is a nation not a subset of individual states. By "Red", I was making a pretty obvious association with unjust totalitarian state action such as that typically seen in the USSR and China. If you are among the brainwashed and need it spun to fit with the dogma and spin of your designated political partition feel free to re-read my sentence with red replaced by "Ultra Conservative" or "Commie" as appropriate and fail to see what those of us who have resisted such partitioning might recognize as sad yet hilarious irony.
Switzerland: 722 years and counting.
licet differant, aequabitur
Imagine if one and only one of them is lying. Which one?
If the guilty one is lying, they are both claiming the other one did it.
If the innocent one is lying for the other one, then they both agree that the not guilty one did it!
So, in your theory, the one who says he didn't do it is guilty of rape, and the one who admits he did it is guilty of conspiracy?
A strategy to get them to talk:
Either talk and rat out the rapist brother, or the €1m DNA test is done to confirm the exact perpetrator.
The rapist get time in the big house but the twist is that the innocent brother get fined €1m for obstruction of justice.
Cryonics - Keep cool and carry on.
Coercion is a specific threat or harm, like starving the person for days.
Oddly enough, threatening someone with PMITA prison is not coercion.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
And then judge specifically asks you if you have been coerced or promised anything and you say 'no, your honor' and everyone in the room winks at each other.
God help you if your acting coach (lawyer) forgot to tell you how to answer this question and you accidentally point out the de facto coercion of which you were a victim. Hilarity ensues. Mostly in an off the record sidebar.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
Give up as soon as it gets hard
Supposedly, one of them didn't. That's why they have a sample to compare the brothers to.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
This entire discussion is nothing more than empty speculation on something never mentioned in the story.
Welcome to slashdot. Enjoy your visit.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
Just by existing the innocent one is providing a false alibi for the guilty one. A sufficiently creative prosecutor could make an obstruction charge out of that.
Unfortunately, I wouldn't put it past some of our US prosecutors to try that one.
The unfortunate thing isn't the prosecutors who try it, it's the judges who let them try it.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
Connect your brain, clear the word "rape" from your mind, get an account and then get back to /.
If you accept that in the pursuit of criminals you want to punish innocent people too you destroy the reward-punishment equation that makes the social contract work. Why would otherwise law abiding citizens respect the law if they would end punished even if they didn't any crime? Middle east dictators tried that. It didn't work in the long run.
Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
Pay for the test and stick the bill on the criminal.
Btw, I think the sentence should be life in prison or possibly death penalty. So what's half of life sentence or death penalty?
It's not the death penalty. Abolition of capital punishment is a condition for entry into the European Union, of which France is a member.
Once karma was a number. it had a value between 0 and 50. Every time you got a upvote that number increased. (but not for funny votes). once you had a value above 20 (not sure exact what value) you can post repsonses at +2 instead of +1.
However the karma number was gamed by some people, using it a as a personal score. To fight karma gaming the number was no longer showed, instead it show a textual description of the same fiel.
the upper bound was 50.
They are always saying that ONLY dna proof is not enough to convict someone. This very example proves that dna is not as unique as they are always saying. It is also possible to fake DNA evidence.
However in this case there was video evidence and witness evicence as well, but it has the same problem... too identical.
Actually the logic involvedin 'find them both guilty' in this case is legitimate.
In Canada if a group of people say go rob a bank and one of them ends up shooting the rent-a-cop and killing him everyone can be charged with murder because they were all in on the original crime of robbing the bank.
09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
+2 Troll is Slashdot's way of saying groupthink is confused
But in this case, you know with 100% certainty that one of two people did it.. and there is a brotherly motivation not to put the blame on your brother--lest he be subjected to unnecessary torture. But I am also for allowing both brothers to spend time in jail for the one crime.. until the right brother decides to man up and take responsibility.
And in all the countries outside the USA, we see two sides of the same coin.