French Police Unsure Which Twin To Charge In Sexual Assaults

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French Police Unsure Which Twin To Charge In Sexual Assaults

Posted by timothy on Friday February 15, 2013 @11:56AM from the ok-fellas-time's-up dept.

An anonymous reader writes "In a real life Prisoner's Dilemma taking place in the French city of Marseille, twin brothers have been arrested for a string of sexual assaults. While say they are sure that one of them committed the crimes (corroborated by a standard DNA test), police were told that it would cost upwards of €1m euros (£850,000, $1.3m USD) to distinguish between them using DNA evidence."

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!(Prisoner's Dilemma) by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-15 12:00 · Score: 5, Informative

"Prisoner's Dilemma" does not just mean "a dilemma involving prisoners"
1. Re:!(Prisoner's Dilemma) by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-15 12:28 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Yes, there is. There's just an upper bound to how much you can get here.
2. Re:!(Prisoner's Dilemma) by angel'o'sphere · 2013-02-15 12:44 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  That is nonsense:
  If both stay silent, maybe end up with time served 'cause they can't be sure it which of you it was.
  You can not convict someone on that base.
  Supposed I was innocent. Then according to the DNA evidence my twin did it. When he and I stay silent, they still don't know who it was. So the first paragraph of all "constitutional states": innocent until proven otherwise comes to play.
  
  --
  Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
3. Re:!(Prisoner's Dilemma) by uncqual · 2013-02-15 14:52 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  If only one twin is responsible for the rapes, how do we know that that the other knows he did them? Maybe all one knows is that he didn't do them and, of course, the other twin who is responsible would likely make the same claim falsely.
  
  --
  Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
4. Re:!(Prisoner's Dilemma) by stymy · 2013-02-15 15:17 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  How is one lying for the other? Presumably, they are both insisting they are innocent, and one of them actually is.
5. Re:!(Prisoner's Dilemma) by chebucto · 2013-02-15 16:57 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  This is the prisoner's dilemma:
  Two people commit a crime.
  Both are arrested, but there is no physical evidence.
  They are put into separate rooms and each offered a deal:
  1 year in prison for you, and 10 years for your partner, if you admit to the crime first
  If either of them admits to it, they both go to jail - because they both took part in the crime. If they both stay silent, they both go free. However, each has a strong incentive to admit to the crime, because the other person might admit to it first.
  In this case, however, only one person might be guilty. If that's the case, the innocent party has no incentive to rat the guilty one out. The essence of the prisoner's dilemma is lost.
  
  --
  The English word fart is one of the oldest words in the English vocabulary.
6. Re:!(Prisoner's Dilemma) by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-15 21:07 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  That's not justice, that's just about the complete opposite of justice. And it's one aspect of being American that I'm deeply ashamed of. There should be no incentive to plead guilty to a crime you didn't commit. The fact that, not only does it happen, but we actually have a name for it should be deeply concerning to anybody to cares about justice.
7. Re:!(Prisoner's Dilemma) by c0lo · 2013-02-15 21:13 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Ever heard of a plea bargain?
  Not in France, no.
  Fine, ever heard of plaider coupable.
  Non. Mais, avec l'aide de l'ami Google, je peux vous montrer quelques informations pertinentes:
  
  Dans la pratique, cette procédure est surtout utilisée pour traiter rapidement la masse des délits routiers, comme le défaut d’assurance ou la conduite en état alcoolique, ainsi que les délits simples, comme les petits vols.
  ...
  La CRPC n’est toutefois pas applicable à certains délits ou certaines accusations particulièrement graves. Parmi ceux-ci : les violences, les menaces, les agressions sexuelles et les atteintes involontaires à l’intégrité de la personne, pour lesquelles une peine d’emprisonnement d’une durée supérieure ou égale à 5 ans est encourue.
  In english translation - with the help of google, here you have some relevant information:
  
  In practice, this procedure is mainly used to quickly treat thje majority of traffic offenses, such as lack of insurance or drunken driving, as well as simple offenses such as petty theft.
  ...
  Though, the plea bargain is not applicable to some serious offenses or allegations. Among them: violence, threats, sexual assault and involuntary damage to the integrity of the person, incurring a sentence of imprisonment for a term no less than 5 years.
  
  --
  Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
Easy solution by Hogwash+McFly · 2013-02-15 12:17 · Score: 5, Funny

Just charge the one with the goatee.

--
Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
Re:Lock them both up by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-15 12:21 · Score: 5, Insightful

How exactly is the innocent one proclaiming his innocence obstructing justice?
captcha: unproven
Re:Lock them both up by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-15 12:23 · Score: 5, Insightful

Wow, logic fail. I hope I never see you in a jury...
Re:Just do the damned test by wonkey_monkey · 2013-02-15 12:25 · Score: 5, Insightful

Perhaps then bill each of them for half the cost, for not cooperating.
Who says the innocent one isn't cooperating?

--
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Re:Coercion by Gordonjcp · 2013-02-15 12:32 · Score: 5, Insightful

... and that's why those of us in civilised countries consider the US to have a similar legal system to the brutal Sharia law of countries like Afghanistan, Somalia and Mali, among others.
Re:Or IS there even a genetic test?. by popo · 2013-02-15 12:39 · Score: 5, Informative

Ah. So there is a way. Thanks for the Google Fu.
Unlike some 'other' underprivileged folks I have one of those modern "cut and paste" operating systems. :p
Here is the important bit from the above link:
"Just like our fingerprints, the environment can change our DNA too. We all build up mutations in our DNA over time. Most of these DNA changes are harmless although some can lead to diseases like cancer.
Where do these changes come from? Some come from the stuff our body does everyday. For example, we all start out with a single cell and end up with somewhere around 50 or 100 trillion cells.
The DNA in all of these cells needed to be copied (not 100 trillion times but a lot). The machinery in our cells that copies our DNA is incredibly good at what it does, but not perfect. Occasionally, it makes a mistake that is not fixed.
Our DNA also changes in response to things like sunlight or the food we eat. Both can damage the DNA causing mistakes to happen.
Coming up with a genetic test looking for these changes is going to be tough. First, these changes are pretty rare. Everyone has about 100 new mutations in their DNA. Sounds like a lot but spread out over 3 billion base pairs, that is quite a needle in a haystack."

--
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
Re:Coercion by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-15 12:50 · Score: 5, Informative

Whereas in the good, honest Blue States of America, we just threaten hackers for political gain until they commit suicide. Much less expensive.
Re:Unless French wages are crazy low... by Solandri · 2013-02-15 13:21 · Score: 5, Insightful

More succinctly, what is the future cost of allowing these two guys to go free to continue his/their crime spree? And what is the cost of all the copycat twins who'll do the same thing once a precedent has been set that the police won't prosecute twins if they can't tell which one did it?

If that cost is more than the 1 million euro test, then pay for the test.
Re:Would Someone Explain This? by SocratesJedi · 2013-02-15 14:09 · Score: 5, Interesting

It sounds a little implausible, but perhaps I am unaware of the forensic issues. Due to massive improvements in DNA sequencing, it costs less than $10,000 to acquire a full genome (see https://www.genome.gov/sequencingcosts/ ). So, back-of-the-envelope:

(a) $20k to acquire both genomes, plus
(b) some computational effort to identify interesting DNA polymorphisms ($0 - $1000 ???), plus
(c) PCR'ing out and sequencing of a region of the crime-scene DNA (cheap; less than $100).

So $22k, not counting labor costs?

IAAMB (I am a molecular biologist), but not a forensic one. Maybe it just doesn't work that way. Anyone have other information?