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KDE's Aaron Seigo Bashes Ubuntu Phone

Posted by samzenpus on from the no-sir-I-don't-like-it dept.

sfcrazy writes "KDE's Plasma Active team leader Aaron Seigo has raised some concerns around Ubuntu Phone. He says 'We can start with the obvious clue: Unity currently does not use QML at all; Ubuntu Phone is pure QML. So, no, it is not the same code, it is not the sort of seamless cross-device technology bridge that they are purporting.' He then concludes, 'If you're a Free software developer, user and/or supporter and buying into these claims, I don't know how else to put it other than this: you're being duped. Consider what supporting those who employ such tactics means for Free software.'"

22 of 92 comments (clear)

  1. Language of choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Man, if only there was a way to take code written for one display device and. what's a good word, "compile" it into a program that uses a different display device.

  2. Pretty heavy handed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    He has a point (actually two: the phone isn't using the same API, and Canonical marketers implied that it was) but he seems to think that that is disqualifying for users of free software. I don't think it is.

    Point it out, but just add "KDE's approach is quite different. Here's what we're doing instead..." instead of talking about ethics and such.

    1. Re:Pretty heavy handed by dfghjk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He said that the ethical implications of the deceit might be "disqualifying for users of free software", not the technical details themselves. Talking about "ethics and such" is certainly relevant in that context especially in a community that thinks it's so ethically-minded.

    2. Re:Pretty heavy handed by node+3 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Something I've never quite understood from the "free/libre/open" software culture is the self-contradictory sentiment of, "you're not doing it our way, therefore you are wrong!" Isn't choice and variety and each person being able to take something and mold it to their wishes one of, if not the, primary points?

      I wonder if decoupling morality from software the way it's so commonly tied together in the FSF/OSS movements would help? I don't mean entirely, just not that everything is a moral imperative. That's clearly not in the cards for the FSF any time soon, but ostensibly, that's one of the reasons the Open Source movement was started.

      Personally, I find Ubuntu on phones to have great possibilities, and though it has a long way to go to prove itself as qualified and viable, I could see it surpassing Android in appeal to me. That it's a more honest offering of "Linux on your phone" than Android is. I haven't had a chance to flash it onto one of my Nexuses yet, but am looking forward to doing so sometime soon.

      Honestly, seeing nerds rage against something on meta-reason grounds is often the first sign that it's going to be good!

  3. Re:Hrm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    No, it's just Michael over at moronix who needs more clicks, so he misrepresents what someone says to get them. Slashdot gets on the bus for the same purpose. News at 11.

  4. poppycock by drankr · · Score: 5, Informative

    Not, he's not bashing Ubuntu phone, mostly because such a thing does not exist - yet. He is criticizing Canonical's less than sincere approach to the rest of the world. That's all.

    1. Re:poppycock by Knuckles · · Score: 4, Interesting

      But the Ubuntu press release explicitly says that the code will be shared when the project "is completed", which it is obviously not. And getting upset about a marketing video seems like a waste of time. It's not new that a marketing video may not present the actual current development status, but the one that you want to sell down the road.

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
  5. Mod Parent Up! by Carewolf · · Score: 5, Informative

    There is almost no correlation between this story headline and the actual content Aaron wrote. Among other things Aaron wrote:

    I want to make it crystal clear that I think Ubuntu Phone a great thing to see; more Free software mobile efforts, particularly ones using Qt/QML, warm my insides like a good bowl of soup on a cold winter's night

    1. Re:Mod Parent Up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The question is, if all of you can see how obvious it is that the editors here are misleading people to sell a few ad clicks, why are you still visiting the site? I had considered making an account to post this but to be honest I'd really rather not bother. I'd rather not help the editors make a buck off another pointless flame-war that THEY FUCKING STARTED!

      I'm not saying that any other site is any better, but Slashdot used to be one of my favorites. I think I'm now getting a glimpse of exactly what made Malda retire from his post. The flame-war monster that he created has spun out of even his control so he got out while the getting was good. With any luck this place will go the way of digg.

    2. Re:Mod Parent Up! by segedunum · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nevertheless, Aaron is pretty critical of Ubuntu Phone, and frankly, he has a point. Ubuntu is not using the common codebase they try and claim and their use of Qt and QML in their phone is pretty amusing. They've wasted large sums of time and money over the years going down many different software avenues over the years, Gnome being one (and worse, doing a great deal to hurt others in the process), only to decide years later that they really needed to create Unity and then they decide that the mast they have nailed their development colours to is not good enough for phone and mobile development.

      It's the kind of thing that doesn't make me interested in any form of desktop or GUI open source development and hasn't for years. It's the same old bullshit. Pardon my French but Ubuntu either needs to either produce something worthwhile and useful that will move open source desktop and GUI usage forwards dramatically or they need to run out of Shuttleworth's cash and fuck off.

    3. Re:Mod Parent Up! by myowntrueself · · Score: 3, Funny

      Nevertheless, Aaron is pretty critical of Ubuntu Phone, and frankly, he has a point.

      So he does. It doesn't necessarily mean Ubuntu Phone is a total crock of shit, it's just that it's not really the platform they imply it is. (Now what would be really cool would be a Slackware phone...)
       

      Gentoo phone. That you compile ON the phone.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    4. Re:Mod Parent Up! by TractorBarry · · Score: 3, Informative

      > It's the kind of thing that doesn't make me interested in any form of desktop or GUI open source development and hasn't for years. It's the same old bullshit

      Wish I had mod points today I'd mod this right up ! +10 insightful.

      The latest Gnome/Unity fiascos has put me completely off desktop Linux. There are so many areas of Linux that are in desperate need of improvement (pro audio apps, pro image manipulation apps, pro video apps) - not to mention all the usability bugs that never get fixed.

      But what do the developers do ? Continually fuck around with the desktop metaphor, keep breaking things, continually "reinvent the wheel" (extremely badly), or needlessly trying to push new paradigms down our throats. "Hey we haven't rewritten subsystem X this week so let's throw out what we've got (thereby conveniently ignoring all the bugs) and let's write something entirely new (with all nwe bugs that will never be fixed) instead".

      It's a huge, huge waste of time.

      Not to mention the fact I'd got quite a number of people in my locaility to start using Ubuntu. When they pulled that Unity shit every single one of them was on my case complaining how the latest updates had broken their computer and "how can we get rid of this rubbish ?"

      Desktop linux is a waste of time. Excellent server. Complete waste of time as a desktop. Constantly moving operational metaphors, not enough pro quality apps and no desire to fix bugs (let's make new buggy, shitty "shiny" instead)

      There I've said it.

      --
      Sky subscribers are morons. They pay to be advertised at !
  6. Re:well it worked for google by dfghjk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The GPL doesn't ensure that you can "actually contribute to or even see developmental android code" and Google not offering that doesn't mean that their products are a "proprietary exploitation". The problem here is a nerd's sense of entitlement.

  7. Not a problem with Ubuntu Phone by suy · · Score: 5, Informative

    I doubt Aaron has many complaints with the technology used in Ubuntu Phone, because that's Qt Quick using QML, the same is used in Plasma. The thing is, Plasma was conceived as a very flexible way to create the primary user interface (that is, the visible thing that is not the applications). At that time, that was the "desktop shell" (Plasma Desktop), and nowadays is also a touch-device user interface and others (Plasma Active, Plasma Media Center, etc.).

    The vision the KDE guys had was right, and with few resources have created a great framework. Instead, Canonical had to write Unity several times. The "normal" Unity I don't even remember in what's written (GTK+, Clutter, Nux... can't follow it), but I remember that there is the Qt-based Unity-2D (dead, AFAIK) and the new Ubuntu Phone version, which uses Qt again.

    They could have saved tons of resources by choosing the technology and sticking a bit to it, helping to develop it. And now they claim they provide a seamless user experience across devices. Well, that could be true, but not using the same technologies, so the user experience is not going to be consistent with different bugs, different features, because the code bases are totally different.

  8. His actual post by Noughmad · · Score: 5, Informative

    on Google+: https://plus.google.com/u/0/107555540696571114069/posts/HSL2C21DJt7

    --
    PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
  9. apt-get by duckgod · · Score: 5, Insightful

    IF Canonical does this right. That is a big IF. We will have the same advantages of the linux desktop on our phones. That is the ability to install any window manager you want. No one corporation will have the power to decide what my work environment will be like. So if you don't like it what Unity is, it is 5ish magic words to get something else installed. Please I beg you Canonical just let me type "sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop".

  10. Re:FUD by BanHammor · · Score: 4, Informative

    Yes, it is QML, but it's long since discontinued.

  11. Pearls from the post by suy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Some pearls from the original conversation. Alan Pope:

    We're agile enough that we can migrate our desktop to QML if that's the decision that gets made. Unity has existed on four toolkits already, what's a fifth between friends ;)

    Daniel Stone on wether Ubuntu Phone uses Wayland or not:

    No idea, no-one from the project will respond even to direct questions. They've said in the past that they're writing their own window system, which is pretty tragicomic.

    And the best one, the only thing that Mark Shuttleworth had to say:

    As Kipling put it:

    If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools

    The rest of the poem is pretty apt, too. My kingdom for a link.
    Mark

    I wish success to Ubuntu Phone, really, but it hurts me a little bit that it receives the same or more attention from the community than Plasma Active, when the later delivered the same or more (specially if you value open governance and source code from day 1), with way less resources.

  12. Re:well it worked for google by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Read Cathedral vs Bazaar to understand just what exactly open means.

    Uh, no. Not only have I read it, but he didn't invent the term open, nor for that matter open source. Nor did anyone else who claims to have done so, oddly enough.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  13. Something must be said... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    C-C-COMBO BREAKER!

  14. Pot and kettle by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There is almost no correlation between this story headline and the actual content Aaron wrote. Among other things Aaron wrote:

    I want to make it crystal clear that I think Ubuntu Phone a great thing to see; more Free software mobile efforts, particularly ones using Qt/QML, warm my insides like a good bowl of soup on a cold winter's night

    So then the question becomes "Why is this false story being posted on slashdot?" Is it that the OP wants to slander KDE or Ubuntu or maybe slashdot itself? We all regularly complain about mainstream media and yellow journalism, so how come slashdot isn't doing something about this story?

    1. Re:Pot and kettle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      And if Slashdot (and DICE) won't do something about this story, why aren't its readers doing the open source thing and "forking" Slashdot to something better. Make a new website, just like Slashdot, except with responsible editors (or any editors, for that matter).