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Islamists In Bangladesh Demand Murder of More Bloggers
An anonymous reader writes "Days after the killing of leftist blogger Thaba Baba, mosques throughout Bangladesh called for a popular uprising to demand the killing of other bloggers who had held a rally calling for the death of Jama'at-e-Islami leaders convicted of war crimes. This happens in an atmosphere of ongoing tension between Left and Right, with the leftist government threatening to outlaw rightist parties while the right uses violence to quiet selected enemies."
These few loud attention seekers do not represent Islam any more than Westboro' Baptist represents Christianity. They may respectively have their flaws, but don't believe that the most radical examples are representative of the whole.
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This is not a dispute between left and right, at least not in the sense that we are used to in the so-called "West". The two antagonistic parties here are secularists on the one hand, and islamistic religious fundamentalists on the other. These two groups are not even in a very roundabout way related to the old left-right dichotomy we are used to. Except perhaps the fact that Western leftists also generally seem to weigh in on the secular side of things, but that is about the point where any similarities end.
Unfortunately for this "distinction" to have much meaning, you need to have the alleged "average" people and clerics of Islam start denouncing the actions of these "loud attention seekers" more strongly than a token, "it wasn't us."
Do a large number of these "average" people of Islam show up at the places where these "attention seekers" go, to make a shield between them and their targets, like a lot of people (both Christian and non-Christian) do at Westboro "events"?
It's a battle between secular democratic government and koran-thumping nutballs who want to impose their religious beliefs on everyone else at sword point.
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
Relevant bit of history: Until 1971, Bangladesh used to be called East Pakistan and the current Pakistan was called West Pakistan. Both parts together made up Pakistan, but the East and the West didn't share a common language or culture. In 1952, the West tried to impose Urdu as the sole official language, which resulted in people protesting, and dying, to protect Bangla (Bengali) on Feb 21, 1952. This was eventually recognized by the UN as the International Mother Language Day
But the attitude didn't change, and after losing an election overwhelmingly to a political party based mostly in East Pakistan, the loser from the West worked with the military to not hand over the power and instead let loose The Pakistani Army, which, with the help of local collaborators (Rajakars), killed 3 million people and raped 200,000 women in 1971. One of the stated reasons was to "Protect Islam."
Fast forward to 2012. Now there is a war-crimes trial going on for some of the top Rajakars, and like the Arab Spring, social media headed by young bloggers took a leading role in holding the war criminals accountable.
So the Rajakars, who predominantly belong to a party called Jamaat-E-Islami, are trying to inflame popular sentiment (which is overwhelmingly against them) through propaganda that all bloggers are Atheists. Their campaign is funded by huge influx of money from the middle east and a network of highly profitable businesses in Bangladesh. They own TV stations and newspapers that are using photoshopped images to show the alleged debauchery and insults to Islam of the so-called Atheists.
So this is not just a left vs. right issue as people elsewhere might interpret it. This is an active campaign for the Talibanization of Bangladesh along with a campaign to protect people who allegedly committed crimes against humanity.
The process is not to ban just rightist parties (there are plenty)--the process aims to ban Jamaat-E-Islami, which has never clearly stated that their role in 1971 (of helping with genocide and rape) was wrong, and which is headed by people who actively participated in the genocide and rape.
For freedom-loving people everywhere, this must not be allowed to stand. "Atheists bloggers" is just a red herring--don't let this cheap trick by alleged criminals muddy the water.
But ya
Christianity grew up. It's not perfect, it still has plenty of crazies in various kinds, but by and large Christianity grew out of the crusades mentality. Islam by and large has not.
Thus I think it is perfectly reasonable for people to criticize Islam in a way they do not criticize Christianity (I'm an atheist by the way). That Christianity was all "kill the unbelievers" 700+ years ago does NOT give Islam license to be that way today. Society can, and should, advance. I would hope that in 700 years people would look back on society today and be glad that their society was even better than it is now.
In very many ways Islam is still largely stuck in the Dark Ages and it needs to stop. We shouldn't give it a pass because Christianity was also in the Dark Ages several centuries ago.
Oh wait it doesnt. Maybe Norway...nope. Okay how about Denmark? Nah.
Surely ultraviolent costa rica...wait they dont have an army nor much violence to speak of.
There are oodles of peaceful left of center social democratic governments that have been stable and democratic for decades.
>> And what do you think Islamists are?
An answer then... because you asked so politely...
At my school they always told me that these muslim people are followers of the religion of love, peace and respect. And that any misconduct of that group could, and SHOULD, be played down with either:
- other religions are violent as well, look at the crusaders, the IRA, abortion-clinic-arsonists, the KKK. (Funny that they never mentioned Sikh / Hindu / other religions huh?)
- Those people 'lost' their religion, so any killings have NOTHING to do with islam.
Now, years later I know better.
9/11, 3000 deaths, by Saudi Arabian muslims.
2002 bomblast in Bali (Indonesia), 200 killed by muslims
2004 muslims killed 250 schoolkids in Beslan (Russia)
2004 muslims blew up 190 people in Madrid (yurp)
7/7 London, 52 killed by... wait for it... muslims
2008 muslims the Mumbai (India) blast killed 160 people.
2013 muslims murdered 13 people in Hyderabad (India, last week)
That totals 3,865 of only this horrendously light weight list. There are thousands of smaller cases like the girl that was shot in the face (by muslims) because she wanted to be educated. Or that (Christian) girl with a little mental handicap that was accused of burning pages of a koran and was almost killed by the people in the neighbourhood. The list could be far more elaborate. Nevertheless I heard about Breivik, and yes people are killed by white-power groups and all... but that is like saying that a paper plane is equal to a 747 because they both fly.
To me things are clear, this religion will never stop until either the last muslim is dead or the whole world is muslim.
rm -rf --no-preserve-root /
To me things are clear, this religion will never stop until either the last muslim is dead or the whole world is muslim.
Sadly that's not even true, the different Muslim sects are at war with each other.
Its not going to happen as long as extremist countries like Saudi Arabia are an ally of the world's only super power. Saudi Arabia actually goes out and promotes extremism. Hell, the freaking religious police hits 10-12 year olds with canes if they are out playing soccer during prayer times. Growing up there, thats one of the most vivid memories I have, running from these idiots lest you get hit with canes, money was good so dad moved there for a while.
They have tons of oil money, you take this oil money and spend it in poor Islamic countries like Afghanistan and this is the shit that happens. There are direction on how to behave in a war in Quran, i.e. fight the enemy, Islam does not tell you to show the other cheek but tells you to stand for whats right. This is what is quoted again and again to show extremism in Quran. This is exactly what Islamic extremist do, point out to drone strikes where countless innocent have died to establish US is the devil. Truth is somewhere in between, on both sides its the necessities of war, US is no more the devil than Islam is extremist.
No one ever talks about how quran tells you to behave in normal days, the instructions are "not to sit with those who you disagree with", yah thats it, no killing, no extremism, "walk away". Besides, if any of you picked the quran and did read it, it has tons of stuff on importance of "patience". Again and again it tells you god is with those who are patience. God himself is extremely patience, and yada yada yada.
Google tells me patience is a noun: The capacity to accept or tolerate delay, trouble, or suffering without getting angry or upset.
This is clearly not what Islam stands for today in the world view as well as those who are extremists, at least they are on the same page. If it suits you to believe in what these extremist believe, then be it, you are NOT better for it.
Nonetheless, drastic measures are needed to curb Saudi wahabism being spread to poor countries. Its not even so much organized by the Saudi Government, they do make there donations and shit, but its the populace, millionaires will establish religious schools and tell them to teach "whats right", unfortunately they believe "right" is intolerance and extremism.
Personally, I am tired of explaining this again and again to people, nut jobs have screwed up this religion from discovering algebra to poets and chemists, its come to this.
Why US let this happens (think Russians in Afghanistan during cold war) is a topic for another day.
You are not actually helping the case of Muslims with your post. You actually make the case that Muslims are terrorists, even to other muslims.
And short of IRA and Brittain being at war over "religion" (sort of by proxy), you'd be hard press to see the Roman Catholics waring with Lutherans or Baptists. Or Buddists waring with Taoists.
If you look at a map, with active conflicts, you can bet that Islam is involved on one side or the other and come out ahead ... by a long shot.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Where do you live where there are "crazy violent Atheists". Most of the atheists that I am aware of would be better described as pacifists (Christopher Hitchens being a notable exception, but I would still not consider him "crazy violent"). Flaming on reddit is entirely different than shooting up an abortion clinic or flying a plane into a building. Atheists tend to not kill over religion, since the entire reason they get frustrated is that religion is stupid.
Islam is about where Christianity was 500-800 years ago. That is, becoming a major world power and fighting to gain more power, becoming involved in economic and political wars in the name of the religion, and having wars between sects. What if back then the rest of the world had said "we'll never have peace until every last Christian is dead"?
The violent islamists are in the minority of all muslims. Muslims are speaking out against this (despite some people claiming it never happens). If we have modern day atrocities in the last 50-100 years done by Christians against non-Christian minorities, do we blame all Christians for this?