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Islamists In Bangladesh Demand Murder of More Bloggers
An anonymous reader writes "Days after the killing of leftist blogger Thaba Baba, mosques throughout Bangladesh called for a popular uprising to demand the killing of other bloggers who had held a rally calling for the death of Jama'at-e-Islami leaders convicted of war crimes. This happens in an atmosphere of ongoing tension between Left and Right, with the leftist government threatening to outlaw rightist parties while the right uses violence to quiet selected enemies."
These few loud attention seekers do not represent Islam any more than Westboro' Baptist represents Christianity. They may respectively have their flaws, but don't believe that the most radical examples are representative of the whole.
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This is not a dispute between left and right, at least not in the sense that we are used to in the so-called "West". The two antagonistic parties here are secularists on the one hand, and islamistic religious fundamentalists on the other. These two groups are not even in a very roundabout way related to the old left-right dichotomy we are used to. Except perhaps the fact that Western leftists also generally seem to weigh in on the secular side of things, but that is about the point where any similarities end.
Unfortunately for this "distinction" to have much meaning, you need to have the alleged "average" people and clerics of Islam start denouncing the actions of these "loud attention seekers" more strongly than a token, "it wasn't us."
Do a large number of these "average" people of Islam show up at the places where these "attention seekers" go, to make a shield between them and their targets, like a lot of people (both Christian and non-Christian) do at Westboro "events"?
It's a battle between secular democratic government and koran-thumping nutballs who want to impose their religious beliefs on everyone else at sword point.
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
You idiot. You apologist.
www.prophetofdoom.net
They DO represent muslims, because Islam is pure evil, just like its inventor, 'Mo-ham-head', who was a mass murderer, multiple rapist, and a paedophile - all documented by MUSLIMS for 1400 years, because they think those crimes are okay, as long as 'god' tells them to do it.
You really are a moron of the first order.
Do you have nothing against Islam?
Then you have nothing against stoning, amputations, flogging, female genital mutilation, suicide bombers, beheadings, "honour" killings, repression of free speech, abolition of Parliament and its replacement with Shariah, banning of music, banning of beer and wine, banning of pork, dressing women in burkhas, beating of wives, mutiple wives, killing of rape victims, persecution of Jews and Christians, child brides, repression of reason and questioning, islamic police states, burning of churches, killing anyone who leaves islam, killing anyone who questions the teachings of islam, total intolerance of other religions, inferior status of women, violent Jihad against non-muslims, arranged marriages, acid attacks, public hangings, mutilations, rewriting of history, denial of islamic atrocities...
Islam... in layman's terms
Here's how it works:
As long as the Muslim population remains under 2% in any given country, they will, for the most part, be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:
United States -- 0.6% Muslim
Australia -- 1.5% Muslim
Canada -- 1.9% Muslim
China -- 1.8% Muslim
Italy -- 1.5% Muslim
Norway -- 1.8% Muslim
At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize to other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from prisons and street gangs. This is happening in:
Denmark -- 2% Muslim
Germany -- 3.7% Muslim
United Kingdom -- 2.7% Muslim
Spain -- 4% Muslim
Thailand -- 4.6% Muslim
From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:
France -- 8% Muslim
Philippines -- 5% Muslim
Sweden -- 5% Muslim
Switzerland -- 4.3% Muslim
The Netherlands -- 5.5% Muslim
Trinidad & Tobago -- 5.8% Muslim
At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Shari'ah, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Shari'ah law over the entire world.
When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:
Guyana -- 10% Muslim
India -- 13.4% Muslim
Israel -- 16% Muslim
Kenya -- 10% Muslim
Russia -- 15% Muslim
After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, as in:
Ethiopia -- 32.8% Muslim
At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, as in:
Bosnia -- 40% Muslim
Chad -- 53.1% Muslim
Lebanon -- 59.7% Muslim
From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Shariah Law as a weapon, and jizya, the tax placed on infidels (yes, there really is such a thing) as in:
Albania -- 70% Muslim
Malaysia -- 60.4% Muslim
Qatar -- 77.5% Muslim
Relevant bit of history: Until 1971, Bangladesh used to be called East Pakistan and the current Pakistan was called West Pakistan. Both parts together made up Pakistan, but the East and the West didn't share a common language or culture. In 1952, the West tried to impose Urdu as the sole official language, which resulted in people protesting, and dying, to protect Bangla (Bengali) on Feb 21, 1952. This was eventually recognized by the UN as the International Mother Language Day
But the attitude didn't change, and after losing an election overwhelmingly to a political party based mostly in East Pakistan, the loser from the West worked with the military to not hand over the power and instead let loose The Pakistani Army, which, with the help of local collaborators (Rajakars), killed 3 million people and raped 200,000 women in 1971. One of the stated reasons was to "Protect Islam."
Fast forward to 2012. Now there is a war-crimes trial going on for some of the top Rajakars, and like the Arab Spring, social media headed by young bloggers took a leading role in holding the war criminals accountable.
So the Rajakars, who predominantly belong to a party called Jamaat-E-Islami, are trying to inflame popular sentiment (which is overwhelmingly against them) through propaganda that all bloggers are Atheists. Their campaign is funded by huge influx of money from the middle east and a network of highly profitable businesses in Bangladesh. They own TV stations and newspapers that are using photoshopped images to show the alleged debauchery and insults to Islam of the so-called Atheists.
So this is not just a left vs. right issue as people elsewhere might interpret it. This is an active campaign for the Talibanization of Bangladesh along with a campaign to protect people who allegedly committed crimes against humanity.
The process is not to ban just rightist parties (there are plenty)--the process aims to ban Jamaat-E-Islami, which has never clearly stated that their role in 1971 (of helping with genocide and rape) was wrong, and which is headed by people who actively participated in the genocide and rape.
For freedom-loving people everywhere, this must not be allowed to stand. "Atheists bloggers" is just a red herring--don't let this cheap trick by alleged criminals muddy the water.
Problem solved.
Someone should tell CNN to cover this. It would really ruin their stupid "Islam is peace. They're just like you and me" documentary barrage. Islam is violent EVERYWHERE in the world. Get over it and stop pretending it's something else.
But ya
Christianity grew up. It's not perfect, it still has plenty of crazies in various kinds, but by and large Christianity grew out of the crusades mentality. Islam by and large has not.
Thus I think it is perfectly reasonable for people to criticize Islam in a way they do not criticize Christianity (I'm an atheist by the way). That Christianity was all "kill the unbelievers" 700+ years ago does NOT give Islam license to be that way today. Society can, and should, advance. I would hope that in 700 years people would look back on society today and be glad that their society was even better than it is now.
In very many ways Islam is still largely stuck in the Dark Ages and it needs to stop. We shouldn't give it a pass because Christianity was also in the Dark Ages several centuries ago.
Oh wait it doesnt. Maybe Norway...nope. Okay how about Denmark? Nah.
Surely ultraviolent costa rica...wait they dont have an army nor much violence to speak of.
There are oodles of peaceful left of center social democratic governments that have been stable and democratic for decades.
>> And what do you think Islamists are?
An answer then... because you asked so politely...
At my school they always told me that these muslim people are followers of the religion of love, peace and respect. And that any misconduct of that group could, and SHOULD, be played down with either:
- other religions are violent as well, look at the crusaders, the IRA, abortion-clinic-arsonists, the KKK. (Funny that they never mentioned Sikh / Hindu / other religions huh?)
- Those people 'lost' their religion, so any killings have NOTHING to do with islam.
Now, years later I know better.
9/11, 3000 deaths, by Saudi Arabian muslims.
2002 bomblast in Bali (Indonesia), 200 killed by muslims
2004 muslims killed 250 schoolkids in Beslan (Russia)
2004 muslims blew up 190 people in Madrid (yurp)
7/7 London, 52 killed by... wait for it... muslims
2008 muslims the Mumbai (India) blast killed 160 people.
2013 muslims murdered 13 people in Hyderabad (India, last week)
That totals 3,865 of only this horrendously light weight list. There are thousands of smaller cases like the girl that was shot in the face (by muslims) because she wanted to be educated. Or that (Christian) girl with a little mental handicap that was accused of burning pages of a koran and was almost killed by the people in the neighbourhood. The list could be far more elaborate. Nevertheless I heard about Breivik, and yes people are killed by white-power groups and all... but that is like saying that a paper plane is equal to a 747 because they both fly.
To me things are clear, this religion will never stop until either the last muslim is dead or the whole world is muslim.
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So you see rightist autocracies as a solution to leftist democracies? I understand an abhorrence to the idea of "the needs of many" outweighing the needs of the one and all but, seriously, do you really believe the needs of the few out weigh the needs of the many? Maybe it could just be that your understanding of liberal democracy and mine do not jive? Most authoriatarians that I've simply have a belief that they are somehow superior than others.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
To me things are clear, this religion will never stop until either the last muslim is dead or the whole world is muslim.
Sadly that's not even true, the different Muslim sects are at war with each other.
Its not going to happen as long as extremist countries like Saudi Arabia are an ally of the world's only super power. Saudi Arabia actually goes out and promotes extremism. Hell, the freaking religious police hits 10-12 year olds with canes if they are out playing soccer during prayer times. Growing up there, thats one of the most vivid memories I have, running from these idiots lest you get hit with canes, money was good so dad moved there for a while.
They have tons of oil money, you take this oil money and spend it in poor Islamic countries like Afghanistan and this is the shit that happens. There are direction on how to behave in a war in Quran, i.e. fight the enemy, Islam does not tell you to show the other cheek but tells you to stand for whats right. This is what is quoted again and again to show extremism in Quran. This is exactly what Islamic extremist do, point out to drone strikes where countless innocent have died to establish US is the devil. Truth is somewhere in between, on both sides its the necessities of war, US is no more the devil than Islam is extremist.
No one ever talks about how quran tells you to behave in normal days, the instructions are "not to sit with those who you disagree with", yah thats it, no killing, no extremism, "walk away". Besides, if any of you picked the quran and did read it, it has tons of stuff on importance of "patience". Again and again it tells you god is with those who are patience. God himself is extremely patience, and yada yada yada.
Google tells me patience is a noun: The capacity to accept or tolerate delay, trouble, or suffering without getting angry or upset.
This is clearly not what Islam stands for today in the world view as well as those who are extremists, at least they are on the same page. If it suits you to believe in what these extremist believe, then be it, you are NOT better for it.
Nonetheless, drastic measures are needed to curb Saudi wahabism being spread to poor countries. Its not even so much organized by the Saudi Government, they do make there donations and shit, but its the populace, millionaires will establish religious schools and tell them to teach "whats right", unfortunately they believe "right" is intolerance and extremism.
Personally, I am tired of explaining this again and again to people, nut jobs have screwed up this religion from discovering algebra to poets and chemists, its come to this.
Why US let this happens (think Russians in Afghanistan during cold war) is a topic for another day.
You are not actually helping the case of Muslims with your post. You actually make the case that Muslims are terrorists, even to other muslims.
And short of IRA and Brittain being at war over "religion" (sort of by proxy), you'd be hard press to see the Roman Catholics waring with Lutherans or Baptists. Or Buddists waring with Taoists.
If you look at a map, with active conflicts, you can bet that Islam is involved on one side or the other and come out ahead ... by a long shot.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
I don't know why parent has been marked Funny - it should be marked insightful. Check this http://kanewj.com/wbc/
Really? You can't think of a single right wing authoritarian regime other than Pinochet?
Hitler? Mussolini? Argentine generals? Hell, Napoleon? King Richard the Lionhearted? Julius Freaking Caesar? All pretty far to the right, along with most authoritarian rulers throughout history.
Life needs more saving throws.
Not sure about Hitler or Mussolini - they mixed up ideologies of left and right.
Richard the lionheart was driven by religion
Hitler himself was solidly right. The NSDAP had a leftist wing led by Gregor Strasser (the Strasserists) but Hitler showed him what he thought of that in 1934.
ONe of the odd things I've run into with Muslim coworkers, and I'm posting this AC because I don't feel like getting flamed, is that they are very calm and peaceful.
But when you start discussing religion, they'll make crazy ass statements "oh, yes, if you renounce Islam, you should be beheaded" in a very calm and peaceful way, with no anger in their voice. Like saying the sky is blue. Because to them, it is logical and perfectly OK. You never saw Osama Bin Laden shouting, did you, but he LOVED to kill.
Crazy violent Christians usually run around looking all crazy and violent. same as crazy violent Atheists.
But some Muslims: it's like a weird internal secret.
It is quite possible that there are some theologeans here that modded my comment up. But let me be so bold as to reply to your comment.
>>But then we get to this:
>>[To me things are clear, this religion will never stop until either the last muslim is dead or the whole world is muslim]
>>This is the most ignorant and, frankly, stupid thing I've ever seen modded to +5, and I've been here a while.
>>I've got a muslim friend who is quite peaceful and tolerant. Did you mean "every last muslim (except for DahGhostfacedFiddlah's friend) is dead"?.
It is valid to tackle me on the "all of them"-bit because it is logical. You know a muslim who is apparently not violent at all. And that is good news isn't it? All swans are white, one black etcetera. But as far as everyone knows, one example is a bit flimsy as far as evidence goes. Have you seen the riots (stoning of people, petrol-bombing and RPG-ing embassies) for a... wait for it... cartoon... Thousands of hatebeards all being very violent to prove that they are not a violent group. How is that for ironic? These are not extremist nut-cases (not all of them), most of them are 'normal civilians'. There was a shopkeeper in Pakistan who refused to participate in such a protest, and he got killed by the mob. Because he 'left his faith' apparently, that is a normal thing for muslims.
>> Except that there are entire sects [wikipedia.org] of muslims who are dedicated to peace (pay particular attention to their view of "Jihad"). Perhaps you really
>> meant "every last muslim (except for DahGhostfacedFiddlah's friend and members of some sects) is dead"?
Yes, lets get to the word Jihad. There are two sorts, the violent one, and the not-violent one. The latter, fine no problem there. The violent one on the other hand is used ever since the beginning of islam. It made them into the great rulers of large parts of Asia, the Balkans, north Africa, just like Atilla the Hun put violence down as a concept. This continues to this day. Do not forget that! Remember Timbuktu?
The mentioning of a 'large silent and harmless group that is not visible' is the same tactic politicians use to scare their adversaries. As long as you do not know what they say in private, in the mosque, or elsewhere outside the reach of researchers you simply can not tell how many actually (dis)approve on terrorism and jihadism (the violent one). Nor can I for that matter.
The problem with research in this field is that muslims are allowed to lie through their teeth to non-muslims whenever the truth might hurt them. I forgot the name for this, but probably you will find it if you like.
>> But to ignore the billion or so muslims who aren't actively trying to kill us and lumping them in with the - what - 1000 or so that actually carried out the attacks you listed?
Try looking up the term Takfiri. This means in practical terms that one can radicalise out of controll, and no one can do anything because they fear to be made-out for non-believer which is enough to kill you on the spot. That is what happened to Pakistani shopkeeper I mentioned earlier. It is a bit the same like the previous point, you never know how many of those hatebeards are actually meaning what they shout, and vice versa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takfiri
Nevertheless they know that the power of the many is more strong than the few radicals after the diverse arab-springs we have seen. Yet, no one is holding the idiots back. NO ONE. They all march after the big kettle drum. And when the attack on innocent people is successful, not one cleric would rise up and be true to the love/respect/peace bit that they always try to sell. No actually, they get on the streets in hordes shouting and clapping and dancing. So that is why I lump them all up. I had it.
That's possibly the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
That I agree on! That is the dumbest thing ever. And curiously, it is not MY invention, but theirs...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divisions_of_the_w
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Where do you live where there are "crazy violent Atheists". Most of the atheists that I am aware of would be better described as pacifists (Christopher Hitchens being a notable exception, but I would still not consider him "crazy violent"). Flaming on reddit is entirely different than shooting up an abortion clinic or flying a plane into a building. Atheists tend to not kill over religion, since the entire reason they get frustrated is that religion is stupid.
Islam is about where Christianity was 500-800 years ago. That is, becoming a major world power and fighting to gain more power, becoming involved in economic and political wars in the name of the religion, and having wars between sects. What if back then the rest of the world had said "we'll never have peace until every last Christian is dead"?
The violent islamists are in the minority of all muslims. Muslims are speaking out against this (despite some people claiming it never happens). If we have modern day atrocities in the last 50-100 years done by Christians against non-Christian minorities, do we blame all Christians for this?
The problem with apologists for Islamist totalitarians is that they never look at the actual numbers. Go check the opinion surveys PEW research has done in Islamic countries. As an example, in Pakistan you get 80% approval for execution for apostates, adulterers, and blasphemers.
It is not a "fallacy" to point out that theocratic totalitarianism has widespread support in Islamic countries.
So you equate liberty with government handouts? Bizarre, if true.
I believe the founders chose to order it "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" for a reason.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
And what do you think Islamists are?
They are people.
I shouldn't have to say more than that, but apparently that isn't enough. Some are violent, most aren't. That can be said of just about any group of people. Especially from a group that encompasses a fairly large percentage of the worlds population.