LG Not Working On Windows Phone 8 Devices

helix2301 sends this quote from CNET: "LG's reluctance to embrace Windows Phone 8 underscores the difficulties that the platform faces with both consumers and vendor partners. LG was one of the early partners that signed on with Microsoft, releasing the LG Quantum in the first wave of Windows Phone devices. Microsoft's has a great relationship with Nokia, which is considered in the industry first among equals when it comes to Microsoft partners, has some vendors reassessing their own support for the operating system. Over the past year or so, LG has been focusing on Android and has started building phones running on Mozilla's Firefox mobile OS."

Comments

windows 8 is dieing fast time for plan b

[Anonymous Coward]

Like windows 7 se

In other news...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony not making roller skates. Taco bell not producing it's own TV. Nintendo refusing to make laser pointers.

Re:In other news...

[Anonymous Coward]

What the hell are you going on about? You know LG does make phones, right?

Re:In other news...

[Runaway1956]

Actually, I'd like to see a complete list of manufacturers who are NOT embracing Windows8.

We could start with General Motors, Chrysler, Daimler Benz - or we could restrict ourselves to computer manufacturers. Either way, the list will be impressive. ;^)

Re:In other news...

[wonkey_monkey]

Area Man Constantly Mentioning He Doesn't Own a Television

nobody wants Microsofts solution

[Anonymous Coward]

when given the choice between "you will take this OS as it is, we are not listening to end users or "something else", the manufacturers and users are choosing "something else", after all LG wants to sell phones not participate in some US software companies lock in power games bollocks

Re:nobody wants Microsofts solution

[cusco]

Considering the quality of some of their products that we've installed in the last year this is probably a good thing for Microsoft. More often than not when I hear (L)users complaining about how such-and-such problem is all Microsoft's fault a little bit of digging exposes that the real problem is crappy hardware or crappy software, not the OS.

Re:nobody wants Microsofts solution

[recoiledsnake]

So that they can screw up the UI with their shitty skins, install unremovable always running crapware and then not update it for a couple of years like they do with their Android phones? And then be beholden to stupid carrier crapware? Thank heavens Microsoft doesn't allow that crap to happen.

For example look at what HTC and the carriers install on Android and which cannot be uninstalled and then cause serious security issues which are never fixed.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/virtualization/bloatware-a-creeping-problem/4173

The HTC Thunderbolt is a nice HTC Android device that came with the following software that I don't use, didn't want and can't remove:
Amazon Kindle
Verizon Backup Assistant (tied to a service offering I don't use)
Bitbop
Blockbuster
Friendstream
Let's Golf 2
Mobile Hotspot (a poor replacement for the native Android hotspot that is tied to charging the user again for the "unlimited" data plan they've already purchased)
Peep (a poor Twitter client)
Rhapsody (a music service)
Rock Band (a game)
TuneWiki (lord knows what this is)
V CAST Media
V CAST Music
V CAST Tones
V CAST Videos
VZ Navigator
Several apps from Sprint or HTC come pre-installed on the HTC EVO 4G. These include:
Footprints
Amazon Mp3 Store
NASCAR Sprint Cup Mobile
Qik
Sprint Football Live
Sprint Navigation
Sprint TV

Windows Phone disallows always running services and any carrier bundled software can be easily uninstalled in about five seconds.

Re:nobody wants Microsofts solution

[realityimpaired]

Sprint Football Live
Sprint Navigation
Sprint TV

I'd be very surprised if my HTC One V, on Koodo Mobile here in Canada, came with those preinstalled....

Are you entirely sure that it's HTC that's adding that crap, and not Sprint? None of the apps you have listed came preinstalled on my phone.In fact, the only non-Google apps that came preinstalled on my phone were Dropbox, HTC Hub, Polaris Office (full), Sound Hound, and TuneIn Radio. I doubt most users would complain about any of those, even if they don't use them. And having a fully licensed copy of Polaris Office out of the box on a $150 phone is actually pretty nice of them....

Re:nobody wants Microsofts solution

[c]

For example look at what HTC and the carriers install on Android and which cannot be uninstalled and then cause serious security issues which are never fixed.

You can't uninstall them, true. But you can disable them, which is effectively equivalent except they still take up disk. And those extra Android apps aren't burning that much disk compared to, say, a default Surface install.

Re:nobody wants Microsofts solution

[Bert64]

That's the problem with being ubiquitous, microsoft have worked hard to make users consider windows to be the whole package including hardware, so users won't see the hardware as a blank canvas on which they could run all manner of different software.
But it cuts both ways, if the hardware is garbage people blame windows.

Re:nobody wants Microsofts solution

[Bert64]

It's often carriers rather than the phone manufacture that bundle all manner of crap, and other modifications to the firmware...

Often you can go back to the manufacturer's default (ie not network branded) firmware for a much better experience, or you can buy a phone direct from the manufacturer which already has this firmware rather than buying it from your operator.
In many cases you can also install a third party android firmware such as cyanogenmod.

I have had several phones which were crippled by carrier-specific firmware, missing features, features not working, instability, bloatware, poor battery life, and which were fixed by installing stock firmware.

Re:nobody wants Microsofts solution

[recoiledsnake]

How does that matter to end users? The OEMs/Carriers install shitty skins, apps and services that destroy battery life and slow down the phone by taking up RAM.

This does not happen with Windows Phone or iOS.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/02/two-year-old-phone-receives-15-month-old-software-update/

Re:nobody wants Microsofts solution

[Anonymous Coward]

But it cuts both ways, if the hardware is garbage people blame windows.

So it *is* the x86 PCs fault!

Re:nobody wants Microsofts solution

[Anne Thwacks]

or you install Cyanogenmod. You do realise it is unlocking tat is illegal, not jail-breaking!

Cyanogenmod IS Android. Crapware IS the carrier's doing.

You could of course, do a fresh install of Windows over the one that came with the kit - however, on most hardware, you can install something else than Windows. Apparently LG have noticed, as well as some users.

Re:nobody wants Microsofts solution

[Eirenarch]

I completely agree. I've always seen LG as damaging to the Windows Phone ecosystem. I think the current line up - Nokia, Samsung, HTC, Huawei is perfect. In fact if I was Microsoft I would not allow anyone else to make WP devices.

Re:nobody wants Microsofts solution

[Eirenarch]

You do know that Surface is not a phone and runs different operating system from Windows Phone devices right?

Re:nobody wants Microsofts solution

[Eirenarch]

You realize Windows Phone and Windows are different operating systems right?

Re:nobody wants Microsofts solution

[hairyfeet]

Why is this modded offtopic? he is simply pointing out, complete with citation i might add, that the carriers have been treating Android rather poorly and that Apple and MSFT have rules against carrier crapware. I mean who didn't know the carriers treat Android like a black billboard to splatter crap trying to lock you in or sell you shit?

This is why I frankly wouldn't be surprised if we only end up with three major phone carriers, you'll have MSFT/Nokia in last place, and Google/Motorola and Apple switching back and forth for first place. I honestly would not be surprised if Google gets tired of Android being treated badly by the carriers and end up just pushing their own phones, the carriers left will probably end up on MozPhone which they will pile on the crap and treat like shit like they do Android now. Since Moz has made it clear they'll work with the carriers to set up carrier controlled appstores you can bet that Moz will be a carrier darling.

final prediction? Big three each have their own hardware/software ecosystem that cuts out the carriers and all the cheap phones will be MozPhones so the carriers can milk those pennies.

Re:nobody wants Microsofts solution

[c]

You do know that Surface is not a phone and runs different operating system from Windows Phone devices right?

This is the same "Surface" they used to slap on an interactive coffee table, right? Don't even get me started on Microsoft's fucked up branding and marketing strategies...

In any case, the comparison is legit. The parent was about Android. The same Android which runs on my phone, tablet, and periodically my netbook. It's in the same function space as Surface, particularly if you're looking at Surface RT.

Re:nobody wants Microsofts solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Root it, install Titanium Backup, and use it to uninstall the crap. "OMFG can't be uninstalled!"

OTOH, hearing a MegaShit fanboy rant about uninstallable crap, is pretty priceless.

Re:nobody wants Microsofts solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow... either someone moderating hates MS, works for LG, or is a user who complains to IT. The "(L)user" may be a bit flamebaitish, but I'd mod him "interesting" were I moderating, because his experience jibes with my own. I only had one LG product, about seven or eight years ago and I won't ever have another. The product was a phone, and it was the worst piece of shit phone I ever had. A month after buying it the screen started doing weird things, like displaying upside down, displaying backwards, etc. I had to reboot the damned thing constantly. I sent it back as defective, and the replacement was even worse.

Anybody else have bad experience with LG?

Re:nobody wants Microsofts solution

[cusco]

Well, we have a cheap LG DVD/Netflix player that runs some primitive Linux kernel which will hang about once or twice a month and needs to be unplugged to reboot it. The only other LG products that I have touched are their network switches, which are the worst pieces of junk that I have ever had the misfortune to deal with in my entire working career. You think a Belkin or D-Link switch is crap? You should try these things.

We had to install 66 of them in a migration from analog to IP cameras. So far we've RMA'd 39 of them and we have 4 more we need to replace but LG has shut down their US network equipment support office and are having a hell of a time getting hold of anyone.

Re:nobody wants Microsofts solution

[nobodie]

yeah, his crapware is sprintware, not android ware. But his point is that he can't take it off an android phone, while he can take it off his win8 phone. Interesting, if true (and I have no real reason to doubt it) and if valid then it makes for a real objection to android. I know my wife's phone has some crap from ATT that she doesn't use and gets POed about having. But when I offer to cyanagen it she shies away. So, its her phone ya know, if somebody wants to bitch and complain, let 'em.

Shotgun approach

[greywire]

Sounds like LG is going to cover the playfield with Android, Firefox OS, maybe even PalmOS? who knows now...

Re:Shotgun approach

[masternerdguy]

I don't want to go back to Palm, Firefox OS doesn't exist yet (they've yet to ship a product), so that leaves Android (which is a great choice because of the well developed ecosystem and ease of deployment). But you forgot about WebOS which is being sold off and is already fully developed by HP, and you forgot Chrome which is looking for someone to care about it.

Re:Shotgun approach

[im_thatoneguy]

The last time I bought an LG phone it died 4 times in 2 months and then battery broke a few months later. I've never seen a decent LG smart phone.

If they're shotgunning the OSes hoping for success then they're barking up the wrong tree. LG is the problem not Android, Windows, Ubuntu or Firefox and the solution needs to be from LG: better devices.

Re:Shotgun approach

[greywire]

Sorry, WebOS, thats what I meant to say. Not sure if its true or not but supposedly LG was/is going to buy WebOS. Lets not also forget Ubuntu Mobile.

With web based mobile apps getting better and better, the idea of more phone os types that just support web apps starts to become more likely. Microsoft is in trouble in mobile land.

Re:Shotgun approach

[ifiwereasculptor]

The last time I bought an LG phone it died 4 times in 2 months and then battery broke a few months later. I've never seen a decent LG smart phone.

If they're shotgunning the OSes hoping for success then they're barking up the wrong tree. LG is the problem not Android, Windows, Ubuntu or Firefox and the solution needs to be from LG: better devices.

Hum... LG does make crappy phones, but I have never had a problem with their reliability. In fact, from what I've seen, they seem to be quite durable and well-built. The problem is what they're built of. LG has beautiful phones with 4.3" screens, ICS and Adreno 200 - a GPU which was already obsolete in 2010. ( see Optimus L7). The whole L line is utter crap, in fact, being incredibly underspecced. Except for the L3, which would be cheap enough to be a good contender if not for that hideous screen. Really, they can't get any device entirely right. I have an Optimus Hub, an almost decent phone. Its only fault is having 150Mb of internal memory, which is unthinkable for a smartphone. I can, of course, just use a memory card partition for my apps but it's not a very elegant solution and tends to cause all kinds of weird read errors. On top of all that, their Optimus UI is pretty heavy and uglier than stock Android.

Re:Shotgun approach

[ultrasawblade]

My experience with LG and phones has been:

- A lot of the older Sprint feature phones by LG are pure shit. The Rumor, the LX160, and others. The Rumor, Sprint's first feature phone with a slide-out keyboard, had numerous firmware updates to correct issues, including one where if you hit the wrong combination of keys the phone's memory would be zapped to the point where it would not know it's ESN and could not make a phone call. I hated LG for a long time after seeing that phone.

- I have an LG Intuition (massive screen) and I like it a lot. Hasn't given me problems that I haven't caused - i.e. I've rooted it, and seems to crash when I run X natively with too many processes ... I use it pretty heavily.

Re:Shotgun approach

[greywire]

They should be a perfect match for WebOS then...

Although I loved my Palm Pre, the hardware did suck.

Re:Shotgun approach

[unixisc]

FirefoxOS? I thought that LG would cover their bases w/ WebOS and Android.

Re:Shotgun approach

[unixisc]

While you are speculating, they also have KDE's Plasma Active desktop that they could use - maybe w/ WebOS

Re:Shotgun approach

[synapse7]

The optimus G is a great phone and very refined, it is like a work of art.

I like Windows Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Contrary to lamestream thinking, I actually like Windows Phone 8. I recently dropped my Google Nexus 4 in a pool of water. I replaced it with a Nokia Lumia running WP8. I actually prefer it over Android. It's original, actually faster, and compatible with everything else I already do and have.

I hope WP has a long life with various vendors.

Re:I like Windows Phone

[masternerdguy]

You're using the metro interface on the intended device, of course it works. Most people's issues with Windows 8 have nothing to do with the mobile market, it's the desktop.

Re:I like Windows Phone

[MightyMartian]

This message brought to you by Redmond, WA.

Re:I like Windows Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Most people's issues with Windows 8 have nothing to do with the mobile market, it's the desktop.

They have everything to do with the mobile market, Microsoft added Metro to Windows 8 and largely forces you to use it, entirely because they're trying to leverage the desktop monopoly into the mobile market.

Re:I like Windows Phone

[recoiledsnake]

I didn't know 13.9% of Italian smartphone buyers lived in Redmond.

http://news.techworld.com/operating-systems/3421936/windows-phone-triples-uk-market-share-in-a-year/

Re:I like Windows Phone

[Doctor_Jest]

Not yet... The houses aren't finished.

Re:I like Windows Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

in Italy MS also has employees & partners

Re:I like Windows Phone

[nadaou]

In all fairness, different people have different tastes in things. One of the smartest guys I know is a unix expert but loves the "Bob" and Find-Puppy style features that Microsoft throws into their products. Do I understand it? No way, it completely baffles me, those things make my head hurt. Do I have to understand it? No way, whatever floats boats. As long as I'm not forced to use it, deal with it, or fix it, what do I care what others' taste in software or phones happens to be?

MS8 phone has two main things working against it: the legacy consumer memory of MS phones 1-7, and trying to compete with the feature set provided by the Apple and Play app stores. Both hurdles are huge, for the first they're going to have to drop the price to get people over the fence. For the second they're going to have to pay a lot of people a lot of money to port their apps to the MS environment. Even for a historically MS invested shop that's non-trivial as the interface and delivery envelope is totally different from the desktop. The toolkit and programming language are just details. (and guess what, all that .net know how is soon to be abandonware)

Well

[masternerdguy]

Microsoft partnership is like the kiss of death, at least in the mobile market.

Re:Well

[recoiledsnake]

Is that why Motorola is struggling and still making huge losses after being bought up by Google?

Or is that why Samsung is making billions while still selling Windows Phones?

Or why Blackberry is suffering?

Or why Palm died after moving from Windows Mobile to WebOS?

Or why HTC and Sony are struggling after making flagship Android phones?

Stop with the stupid cherrypicking memes.

Re:Well

[MightyMartian]

Yup. The other manufacturers are looking at Nokia sink into the swamp, and have absolutely no desire to tie the WP8 anchor around their legs and jump in the shark-infested waters of Microsoft's "ecosystem" (a word rich in irony when compared to Apple's App Store and Google Play).

Re:Well

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok.... Microsoft partnership is like A kiss of death in the mobile market..

There is always more than one way to fail...

Re:Well

[recoiledsnake]

Samsung's been making Windows mobile and Windows phones since forever.

Re:Well

[recoiledsnake]

Nokia started making profits with Windows Phone 8.

http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/01/10/nokia-sold-4-4-million-lumia-smartphones-in-solid-q4-2012-results-exceeded-expectations/

Googorola continues to make losses making Android phones.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57565253-94/motorolas-$353m-q4-loss-weighs-on-google-results/

Go figure, and get a clue.

Re:Well

[idunham]

Not to say that he isn't cherrypicking, but...
Samsung is primarily making non-windows phones and devices.
Blackberry had some sort of agreement with MS, I believe primarily related to Exchange compatability.
HTC makes a mix of windows and android phones.

The points you mention don't refute him as well as you hoped.

Re:Well

[recoiledsnake]

Blackberry had some sort of agreement with MS, I believe primarily related to Exchange compatability.

Oh please, now you are cherry picking.

Look at who else did the exact same thing.

http://winsupersite.com/article/mobile-and-wireless2/microsoft-licenses-activesync-to-google

http://www.tuaw.com/2008/03/06/apple-licenses-activesync-for-the-iphone/

So why didnt the Blackberry kiss of death affect them?

Re:Well

[Anonymous Coward]

In all, total smartphone volumes in Q4 2012 were 15.9 million units – 9.3 million Asha full-touch ‘smartphones’, 4.4 million Lumia smartphones and 2.2 million Symbian smartphones.

Furthermore, Nokia notes, operating expenses came in lower than expected. That always helps.

Nokia also estimates that Nokia Siemens Networks has exceeded expectations for the fourth quarter of 2012.

It's pretty easy to exceed expectations if you keep your expectations low enough. Nothing in that article directly links Windows Phone 8 as being the reason for turning a small profit, although the $billion or so from Microsoft most certainly helped.

With 9.3 million Asha and 2.2 million Symbian sold at a profit vs. 4.4 million Lumia which are widely reported to be sold at a loss could have been enough to cover up the hole made by Lumia. Operating expenses lowered, by shedding staff and selling off capital like their headquarters, R&D centres and factories and NSN also bringing in some money.

Re:Well

[Anonymous Coward]

He did say "partnership" and not "licensing agreement". It's quite true that most of the mobile companies that did get into the "partnership" bed with Microsoft are now dead or shells of their former selves.

Re:Well

[Anonymous Coward]

And Samsung is an absolutely massive company that could absorb the losses incurred by Windows Mobile | Phone at the time. Now with Android they are the number 1 or 2 ... depending on the analyst and the way the wind is blowing on the day ... smart phone manufacturer in the world.

Re:Well

[marcosdumay]

Nokia started making profits with Windows Phone 8.

Except that that article doesn't claim that Nokia is making a profit anywhere.

Re:Well

[recoiledsnake]

Here: http://bgr.com/2013/01/24/nokia-earnings-q4-2012-304661/

Re:Well

[Anonymous Coward]

Except the profits came from the network equipment unit (Nokia Siemens Network) and dumbphones. WP smartphones are a big financial blackhole.

Go figure, and get a clue.

Re:Well

[Bert64]

Motorola who was already struggling, and has been for a long time...
Samsung who are making billions from Android devices, their windows phone sales are totally insignificant to them.
Blackberry who's primary product is dependent on microsoft (blackberry server is windows only, and also tied closely to exchange).
Palm were already dying on windows mobile, a platform with no future... HP killed webos without really pushing it properly.
HTC started off doing very well with android, and are now being killed by samsung... HTC also make windows based phones.

MS are ruthless and extremely arrogant, they have never had any qualms about stabbing their partners in the back when it suited them, and there's no reason to believe they won't do it again.

Re:Well

[Bert64]

No, read the article, their smartphone sales as a whole made a profit... A majority of those phones sold were the Asha series, which do not run windows, and a significant portion were also symbian based which again don't run windows.
And this was also over the holiday season, which is traditionally the most profitable quarter.

Smart decision

[Anonymous Coward]

Good for LG. MS already killed Nokia. They're better off jumping ship.

What the hell does that mean?

[nephilimsd]

"Microsoft's has a great relationship with Nokia, which is considered in the industry first among equals when it comes to Microsoft partners, has some vendors reassessing their own support for the operating system." Is this supposed to read that Microsoft and Nokia are considered equals, and Microsoft is giving preferential treatment to that vendor? Or is it supposed to read that Nokia has been withdrawing support, and so other vendors are shying away too? Can someone please review these summaries before they get posted to ensure they make sense?

Re:What the hell does that mean?

[Anonymous Coward]

The idea here is that all WP8 hardware manufacturers are intended to be equal, like with Android device manufacturers. The difference is thanks to their partnership, the flagship device is always a Nokia Lumia, making it difficult for other manufacturers to compete for the consumers who want a Windows Phone

Re:What the hell does that mean?

[MightyMartian]

Yes, all eight of them.

Re:What the hell does that mean?

[recoiledsnake]

>The idea here is that all WP8 hardware manufacturers are intended to be equal, like with Android device manufacturers.

Like Motorola? err... I mean Googorola.

Re:What the hell does that mean?

[Anonymous Coward]

begin sarcasm
Which is exactly why nobody buys a Samsung phone, right? Right?
end sarcasm

Market positioning

[MichaelSmith]

The high end of the smart phone market is occupied by Apple and Samsung. Thats where money is being made. I just bought a Huawei android phone for my son for 60 bucks. Screen resolution and storage are not fantastic but it is great value for money. My current LG phone competed with the Huawei. It is in the same market. Going upscale to compete with Samsung is unlikely to work for LG. Going down scale to compete with Huawei might be possible, but I wonder if they have the manufacturing muscle to pull it off.

Bottom line is the windows is a distraction right now.

Re:Market positioning

[recoiledsnake]

Finally, an insightful comment with a realistic assessment of the situation among the multitude of the bullshit anti-Microsoft posts.

Re:Market positioning

[Doctor_Jest]

You can't be new here.... this is slashdot, after all...

And for my money, Microsoft can burn in the 10th level of hell.... not for their phone OS, but for the fiasco they created in their abusive monopoly days. Just because they make an acceptable phone for some people doesn't erase the vomit-inducing tactics that got them to this "pinnacle of asshattery"....

Their phone OS might actually be good. I, and a percentage of the commenters on slashdot, don't care. :) Don't take it personally.

Re:Market positioning

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't use anything from IBM or AT&T either? Or is your memory too short?

Re:Market positioning

[Doctor_Jest]

IBM, nope. AT&T? Nope. Monopolies that abuse their power suck. This wasn't about IBM or AT&T.

Re:Market positioning

[hairyfeet]

So you don't buy from Intel, Dell, Toshiba, Apple, MSFT, IBM, and HP...correct? After all every one of those either took bribes from either MSFT, or Intel, or both to make sure that wintel was the only game in town or in the case of Apple patent trolling to kill competition so you are gonna have a hell of a short list of hardware to choose from if you don't buy from any abusers.

Re:Market positioning

[Anonymous Coward]

Where do you place Nexus 4? Mid scale or up scale? Because I see most of my friends planning on SGS3 or SGS4 bought Nexus4.

WebOS

[Anonymous Coward]

http://entertainment.slashdot.org/story/13/02/25/1747201/lg-acquires-webos-source-code-and-patents-from-hp

Define "crappy hardware"

[tepples]

More often than not when I hear (L)users complaining about how such-and-such problem is all Microsoft's fault a little bit of digging exposes that the real problem is crappy hardware or crappy software, not the OS.

That'd be fine, assuming that you define "operating system" as the kernel. If users of a particular operating system have difficulty adapting to its user interface paradigm, are the user-space components that implement the user interface "software" that can be "crappy"? I've read a few arguments that a display without touch input is "crappy hardware" for running Windows 8, but then that'd mean almost every desktop PC monitor is "crappy hardware" because it doesn't encourage an interaction modality known for inducing gorilla arm.

Re:Define "crappy hardware"

[recoiledsnake]

I've read a few arguments that a display without touch input is "crappy hardware" for running Windows 8, but then that'd mean almost every desktop PC monitor is "crappy hardware" because it doesn't encourage an interaction modality known for inducing gorilla arm.

I didn't know that having a touchscreen makes the keyboard and mouse melt away and force you to use only the touchscreen thereby turning you into a gorilla.

Re:Define "crappy hardware"

[tepples]

I think the complaint was that some of the controls in Windows 8 without a touch screen, such as the invisible corners to activate the Frosted Lucky Charms bar and shut down the machine, are too hard to learn.

Re:Define "crappy hardware"

[recoiledsnake]

I seriously doubt that anyone would be opening the charms bar and shutting down the PC using a touch screen so much that it is going to give you gorilla arm.

Re:Define "crappy hardware"

[hairyfeet]

Dude Win 8 is deep fried ass, i'm sorry but it is. There are so damned many brain dead decisions that were made that make it not worth having frankly it just staggers the mind. i could sit here all morning typing out all the problems with Win 8 but this video says it better than I ever could. All I will add is this is the first time since WinME that I am NOT carrying MSFT's latest OS in the shop because frankly? Nobody wants it. I had people passing up a really sharp system that was running Windows 8 to take a less powerful system running Win 7, THAT is how much the public don't like Windows 8. as one of the little old ladies that walked into the shop put it so perfectly "Why would I want my computer to look like a cellphone?".

Its just not a desktop OS, its a cellphone/tablet OS that MSFT is trying to force on the desktop hoping folks will "get used to it" and they can steal some of Apple's customers...ha! you'd have better luck strapping wings to Ballmer's ass and getting him to fly south for the winter than to make Windows a "premium" brand. To use a /. car analogy MSFT is trying to slap a paint job on a Pinto and sell it for Porsche money and the public? they ain't buying it.

What is a "great relationship"?

[Stormwatch]

Microsoft's has a great relationship with Nokia

Like a parasite has a great relationship with its host...

Re:What is a "great relationship"?

[Threni]

Or between politicians and journalists, which has described as being similar to that of a dog and a lamppost.

Re:What is a "great relationship"?

[bananaquackmoo]

But which is the parasite and which is the host?

Re:What is a "great relationship"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Elop is the parasite.

Captcha is "mistake". How fitting.

mod do3n

[Anonymous Coward]

produCt, BSD's

Compatibility with Google Play

[tepples]

a Nokia Lumia running WP8 [is] compatible with everything else I already do and have.

Is this phone compatible with the priced applications, books, or movies that you purchased on Google Play Store when you owned the Nexus 4? (Or did you not own it long enough to buy any priced works?) Is it compatible with games whose developers have not yet ported them to Windows Phone 8?

Re:Compatibility with Google Play

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't buy anything from the store. I generally only use free apps. I'm not a gamer on mobile devices; it's a lousy platform for the kinds of games I enjoy.

Re:Compatibility with Google Play

[Anonymous Coward]

So I get a -1 for being honest? Slashdot is bizarely anti-MS, anti-BSD, anti anything but Linux, Android, etc.

Re:Compatibility with Google Play

[Anonymous Coward]

>Is it compatible with games whose developers have not yet ported them to Windows Phone 8?

Yes it is.

Re:Compatibility with Google Play

[LordThyGod]

So I get a -1 for being honest? Slashdot is bizarely anti-MS, anti-BSD, anti anything but Linux, Android, etc.

In a sane world it's crazy not to be anti MS. They've screwed the pooch too many times to merit anything else.

Re:Compatibility with Google Play

[hairyfeet]

Oh bullshit, that's just fanboy wanking. A SMART person uses the right tool for the job, and if that tool is BSD or Windows or iOS or whatever then fuck the fanboy bullshit and just use the right tool.

Case in point I won't say Win 8 is bad on a phone, i don't know as i haven't tried Win 8 on a phone or tablet yet, but I can say on the desktop its the WRONG tool for the job unless you are one of those 1% that have a touchscreen desktop or laptop. If you do have a touchscreen and only use your PC as a way to get to FB? I'm sure Win 8 would be just fine, but my customers don't have touchscreens so its right out.

If BSD, Solaris, Linux,OSX or Win 7 does the job for you, hell if win 8 does the job for you? Then just use it, but all this fanboy circle jerking frankly needs to come to a screeching halt. I mean is this Slashdot or Reddit?

Re:Compatibility with Google Play

[LordThyGod]

A SMART person uses the right tool for the job

Oh well. Who decides "right", you or me? One factor in "right" tool, is who I give money to in a business situation. And "right" for me means not supporting organizations with a criminal past, an organization with a history of shitting on its partners, an organization with a long history of not only ignoring standards, but deliberately breaking them, an organization who's most successful "innovations" come from copying someone else then using their quasi-monopoly to ram it down people's throats, an organization that has actually held back innovation, an organization that laughed out loud at the iphone, an organization that is in many respects clueless and survives primarily because of legacy monopolistic crap. I prefer to support organizations, companies and people that I trust, like and hope to see prosper. Not to say everything MS ever did was bad, but there is enough bad there, that I choose to go the other way. I am happy with my Linux desktops, my Macbook, my ipad, my Nook, my android phone. There is nothing MS has that is "right" for me. And yes, I am a tech fanboy, I love this stuff when its done "right". All the respect in the world for Apple, even though I don't agree with everything they do -- but they do push the envelope, and they do do it pretty well. And Linux? Its the people's OS. The more of us that us it, the better if will get.

Re:Compatibility with Google Play

[hairyfeet]

So you don't buy from, in no particular order...Dell, HP, Toshiba, Apple, MSFT, and Intel...yes? because i can give you a laundry list of citations, everything from Dell taking bribes to make the P4 the chip in Dell system even though the Athlon was faster AND lower powered, Apple and MSFT patent trolling, and HP and Toshiba taking bribes, so you buy from NONE of them, yes?

And Linux is a bad joke, I'm sorry but it is. There is a REASON why Linux has been free for 20 years and hasn't gained shit, its because Linux is NOT an OS, its a bunch of little fiefdoms run by douchebags that don't talk to each other much less work together. Tossing the finally stable KDE 3 and gnome 2 for alpha quality garbage, tossing ALSA for the shitpile that is pulse, hell look up "The Hairyfeet challenge" and know that NO LINUX SYSTEM has EVER passed that test in the six years I've been giving it, not one. And sadly its a test that frankly Windows has passed since Win2K more than a decade ago!

Frankly MSFT could put out Windows Goatse with smell-o-vision and would get more share than Linux ever will, because "free as in freedum herpa derpa" has become a crutch, its an excuse to hand out shit sandwiches and say "Its free, you have no right to complain" well bullshit, I have EVERY right to complain when your product is run by a douchebag that thinks he's God's gift to programming (quick, what do BSD, Solaris, Windows,OSX,iOS and even Os/2 have in common that Linux don't? A stable ABI so everytime somebody gets an itch the drivers don't break, but to hear Torvalds talk everybody in the free world is an idiot but him. Fuck you Torvalds your ideas on driver design SUCKS BALLS) and has all the userspace controlled by dickbags that think only of themselves. Wanna see what is wrong with Linux? Look up "Ulrich Drepper asshole" and see for yourself, he is the perfect example of a Linux asshole dev, a self important douchenozzle that doesn't give a shit what YOU think, you'll take it and like it bitch.

And sorry if it comes off a little ranty but as a Linux survivor I've learned that a simple statement covers the nasty shit stained pile of sick that is Linux "Linux is always 2 years away from ready for the masses, it was 2 years away a decade ago, it'll be 2 years away a decade from now". If YOU wanna waste your time jumping through hoops and fixing shit Torvalds and friends break? Good for you, the rest of the planet has better thing to do than deal with his bullshit.

Re:Compatibility with Google Play

[LordThyGod]

You should get out more. Sorry, I didn't have the time to read all that, but you sound like some wizened old fart who can't give up that desktop mentality, and drag it around like a boat anchor. There is a lot of good stuff going on out there, and more of it is Linux based than MS. Data centers, smartphones, tablets, wearables. And, oh yea, the internet. Linux everywhere you look these days. http://seattletimes.com/html/microsoftpri0/2019853243_goldman_sachs_microsoft_os_has_gone_from_more_than.html

Re:Compatibility with Google Play

[hairyfeet]

And Linux runs on my router...who gives a shit? Sure Linux works on disposable devices, you don't update them so the drivers don't break. Desktops, laptops, and you bring up tablets but they do NOT run Linux, they run ANDROID. Android has ONLY the Linux KERNEL and even that is controlled by GOOGLE. Think they take shit from Torvalds? Nope you'll get the kernel after Google decides its worth doing and not one second earlier and they sure as fuck isn't shitting out a new kernel every couple of months like Torvalds.

The FOSSies can waste mod points but there is a REASON why Linux is dead on everything but servers, that is because the entire FOSS model ONLY WORKS when you are talking about small projects. on big projects you get a bunch of fiefdoms run by douchebags like Drepper that won't work together, which gives you Pulse, KDE 4 and GnomeShell, they don't listen to users, don't listen to OEMs, its strictly all about THEM. Well fuck them, their product works on disposables and that is it. Servers are running a stripped down embedded version (No Sound, Wireless, most don't even have a full DE) and they still have to pay some guy a high five figure salary to deal with the breakage...I'm sorry but its shit, its NOT getting better, just different, and the numbers reflect that.

Wrong title?

[toQDuj]

Isn't it supposed to be "Windows 8 not working on LG devices"?

Still on my first $10

[Bruce Perens]

I bought an LG / Google Nexus 4 a while back. They're less than half the price of other top-end smartphones, unlocked and with no contract. I put a Platinumtel SIM in it with the $10 for 60 days GSM plan, and set it to restrict background data. The network is T-Mobile. After a month I'm still on the first $10, having of course made extensive use of wifi.

As far as I can tell, I have all of the smartphone benefits without much of the cost.

Re:Still on my first $10

[mystikkman]

It's cheap because Google subsidizes it with their monopoly search profits and tries to make it back on ads and spying on users.

There is no way that another OEM or standalone company can make a profit on it at that cost.

A Firefox OS or Ubuntu phone is much more open, unless they allow the carriers to mess them up.

Re:Still on my first $10

[21mhz]

And there goes your troll moderation for insulting the One True Platform and its Creator.

Slashdot is getting ridiculous. Search for Windows Phone stories: notice any positive news reported elsewhere recently? Market share growing everywhere? Affordable Lumias giving cheapo Android phones the run for their money? Spotify getting their act together? No, but when one manufacturer decides they are not interested, stop the presses.

Re:Still on my first $10

[Anonymous Coward]

1. This isn't a dicksucking contest for people who like deepthroating Mircosoft.

2. Making wild accusations and claims without providing any sort of evidence is not going to make anyone popular

3a. People are _cordially_ and _genuinely_ fed up with all you paid Microsoft shills, apologists and astroturfers. You've been at it for the better part of the last 30 years, and you still haven't got the message.

3b. You're _never_ going to make MegaSuck popular again. The company has burned through basically everyone's trust, business and public alike with its shenanigans, ages ago. MegaSuck needs to die.

4. Why don't you just go fuck your self sideways with a rusty nail, you whiny little dick-sucker?

Simple matter of self-interest?

[ace37]

Despite the fact that this is Slashdot, I'm surprised at the number of upvoted anti-MS epithets. I don't see how this needs to have anything to do with the merits of the OS itself when a CEO with an MBA and a Blackberry could easily come to this conclusion on a purely business case.

Neutral phone hardware developers would perceive a small market that requires investment to pursue. Most likely, LG's expected market penetration isn't large enough to justify the investment. And for the cynics, LG could also assume that, to loosely paraphrase Animal Farm, all carriers are equal to MS, but Nokia is 'more equal,' barring antitrust suits. This creates an additional small interest in starving WP of revenue to keep Nokia out of the ring.

No, it's Jessica Alba [picture proof inside]

[recoiledsnake]

Jessica Alba now posts as AC on Slashdot. woo!!

http://www.wpcentral.com/jessica-alba-wields-red-lumia-920-windows-phone

http://wmpoweruser.com/jessica-alba-continuing-to-use-her-red-nokia-lumia-920/

Re:No, it's Jessica Alba [picture proof inside]

[unixisc]

Does she do any commercials for Nokia? Or Microsoft?

Re:No, it's Jessica Alba [picture proof inside]

[recoiledsnake]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpBTr4mxfhA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOAGNW2fLTk

Sigh

[bhcompy]

I like my Quantum, but it is aging. Unfortunately, there is a severe shortage of mid range or highend phones with physical slideout keyboards. I guess this means no Quantum 2

That's why we have CyanogenMod

[Bruce Perens]

Although I have not installed CyanogenMod on my Nexus 4, as I have on my Asus Transformer Infinity tf700, the option is available and I will probably eventually do so. I am installing nightlies every other day on the Transformer. I have the option not to use Google's services since I have control over the OS. IMO Google is selling the unit at parts cost, that's why it's from the Play store rather than another retailer. Obviously, not being locked in is always considered in my choice of hardware.

Re:That's why we have CyanogenMod

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you know of any comprehensive guides to using Android without accidentally using any google services whatsoever? I think I would use my Android handset more often if I could trust it.

I have a T-Mobile G1, and I found it really difficult to not accidentally associate my phone contacts (imported from SIM) with my G-Mail contacts. After that I tried dissociating my Google account with my phone, but my phone simply wouldn't allow it.

I'm of the view that my friends' detailed are shared with me in confidence and I'm expected to not simply allow them to be copied into my G-Mail because I'm lazy/unprepared.

Also, I believe the home screen search bar widget defaults to a Google web search (when it also has phone storage search capability, I believe?), and sends keystrokes as it attempts search suggestions.

Frankly, the whole affair scares the pants off me.

Good for LG

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear Microsoft,

Surely, you are joking!

We saw what happened to Nokia.

LG

LG's reluctance to embrace Windows?

[dgharmon]

Who decided this deserved a whole free slashVertisment?

just to point out the obvious

[jbolden]

Nokia on Lumia is supply constrained. Given the numbers they are very likely to remain supply constrained until at least 2015.
HTC is currently supply constrained on the 8X. I don't know their future numbers.

Supply constrained is a good thing for a handset manufacturer.

Re:just to point out the obvious

[Anonymous Coward]

Nokia on Lumia is supply constrained. Given the numbers they are very likely to remain supply constrained until at least 2015.

It very sad then, that not too long ago Nokia was able to pump out over 30 million handsets a quarter. Now, they're at 4.4 million a quarter and "supply constrained".

Re:just to point out the obvious

[jbolden]

Well in all fairness on the Ashas which are of comparable difficulty they can churn those out in unlimited quantities. The Lumia are a lot harder to make.

Re:just to point out the obvious

[hairyfeet]

Why? Not trying to be a smartass, I'm honestly curious. From what I saw of the 920 specs they weren't using anything really exotic, no cutting edge CPUs, no strange exotic screens so I am honestly curious as to what EXACTLY makes the Lumia harder to make than any other phone Nokia makes. Did I miss something? They using some weird size SSDs? Maybe a funky Wireless chip?

Re:just to point out the obvious

[jbolden]

The companies aren't being clear about what is complex about this generation of phones to manufacture, but: Apple, BlackBerry, Motorola, Nokia, LG, HTC have all made comments about having complexity issues. All the major players except Samsung. I suspect it is a variety of things. Examples:

Foxconn complained about laying in this generation in ways that make it scratch resistant. Whatever they are doing was driving yields pitifully low during mid 2012.

Other people involved in assemblies have complained that parts are so close together, the positioning has to be within a few hundred nanometers or stuff doesn't fit right. They just aren't used to working on assemblies with that precision.

While the parts are standard, part yields have been bad. Many of the part manufacturers have missed shipping dates on parts, and created shortages. Of course these systems aren't generic the way x86 systems are, there is no easy to just pick a different part.

___

And of course the iPhone 5 is the hardest. Apple is raising the bar and clearly has the most complex to manufacture (110 grams). They are forcing everyone else to go even further in this direction.

Re:just to point out the obvious

[Anonymous Coward]

The Lumias weren't harder to make... Nokia/Microsoft deliberately limited production so all the paid and unpaid shills could brag about how demand was so high that the shelves were almost always empty. "Nokia is back baby, watch out Apple and Android yada yada, third major ecosystem here we come blah blah". This in turn would, at least theoretically, generate a media buzz and hopefully more people will want to hop onto the Windows ecosystem in future.

It was a marketing decision... no technical or production issues involved.

And going by Steve Ballmer playing coy about how many Lumia handsets were actually sold, I presume the marketing decision didn't work very well.

Re:just to point out the obvious

[hairyfeet]

This is why I think the ARM bubble, just as the X86 bubble before it, WILL burst...where else can you go? Samsung is testing a hexa-core SoC, Nvidia has a 5 core and Apple making "thin and light" the ONLY form factor you can frankly sell anymore means there is a VERY limited amount of room to fit the parts as well as a ridiculously small power envelope you gotta hit. Finally the average user won't "feel" any difference between a dual core and a hexacore, in the shop I've tested this with X86 and less than half could tell just doing everyday tasks which was which and that was in a multi-tasking environment. In a single tasking cellphone environment they'll use that power even less.

So I truly believe the bubble is gonna burst in less than 2 years which is why i have to shake my head at the way MSFT is fucking the sacred cow of Windows and Office trying to grab share in a market that will be flatline in less than 2 years, maybe a little longer in places like the third world which won't be buying Lumia phones anyway. The whole thing is retarded, they should be pushing media centers and making deals with big content to sell services on Win 7 and 8, instead we see this total dumbshit moves. Just proves what I've been saying for years, Gates was a leader and all Ballmer knows how to do is copy the other guy.

Re:just to point out the obvious

[jbolden]

I think ARM is an interesting situation. I expect the mid-2013 cell phones to be on par with the good but not great laptops that ran Win2k, more or less the kinds of machines that were a bit underpowered for XP but for whom it was still tolerable. There is a real question about how much power people are going to need in their cell phones. On the other hand if you consider what Siri is doing that's a real time AI app doing NLP. You can use infinite power doing NLP. Probably for each doubling or tripling of the CPU usage you'll gain another percentage point of accuracy. Just imagine the CPU required to have the phone be able to do dialogue beyond the few simple scripts!

On computers I strongly approve of Microsoft driving the market towards more demanding applications because I think it is time to take advantage of what modern computers can really do with operating systems that fit those sorts of machines. My laptop is a just short of specs of the VAX used to use to support 3000 users, time to do more than run Word.

As far as Lumia and Nokia. Nokia is dominant in EMs with the Asha line. The Lumia 520 and 620 is already popular among the middle class in the 3rd world. I'd say you are wrong it is already selling and Nokia could probably sell another 100m if they could make them. Nokia through 2014 is going to be able to easily sell every low end Lumia they can make. But... 2014 total Lumia production is only set for 85m, that includes high end and low end.

x86 was always easy to manufacture, it was companies like SGI or IBM in the mainframe space that had complex manufacturing where there were failures. This is a whole new set of problems for Microsoft that they've never had to deal with where state of the art factories are required to even assemble the parts for their stuff. Obviously Intel might have supply problems, which for example why they converted 286 capacity over to 386SX capacity, but Intel is vastly more competent at meeting demand than Nokia and HTC have proven themselves at being. And like I said, Apple wants to keep raising the bar, since this battle of complex manufacturing is a battle they think they can win.

So in short:

a) I agree ARM may be a bubble in terms of expectations of the $700 phones selling every 2 years to a few hundred million people. They are going to have to keep getting better very quickly to keep up that demand and that means that any fall off in the demands of the apps and game over. I don't know when they fail, because I can see things they could do to keep driving demand.

b) I think Lumia will sell to EMs fine. But Microsoft's ability to sell lots of mobile units is limited over the next several years by supply issues. That is unless they can get Samsung or Apple onboard their platform and that's doubtful.

c) I love the Windows 8 strategy of driving up hardware for x86. x86 can crush ARM its time there were apps that made use of the power that Intel can put out.

Re:just to point out the obvious

[jbolden]

If that were true why would: LG, HTC, BlackBerry, Apple, Motorola all have reported similar problems with regard to the complexity of manufacture on this generation of phones?

recoiledsnake in the grass

[Anonymous Coward]

shill shill shill

Re:recoiledsnake in the grass

[Anonymous Coward]

retard retard retard

Why is this news?

[Anonymous Coward]

They've even developed their own front-end UI for Android, I doubt they would throw out all of that in-house development to have the privilege of being inside Microsoft's "walled garden."

It's pretty clear where all of this is going, I don't see how Microsoft is going to survive it in the end -- their strategy seems to be something along the lines of "Apple's dominance over both hardware and OS is nice...we're going to legally and technically enforce the same thing on all PC's through UEFI. And we're going to do it with...an ass-backwards tablet UI for a desktop OS...plus accompanying hardware with...questionable design at best." If they want to lock people in, and it's obvious with UEFI that's what they want, why make it so easy to argue against going with Microsoft at all? It seems self-defeating.

LG Mobile market share ...

[dgharmon]

Apple passes LG in mobile US marketshare

LG Overtakes Apple in U.S. Mobile Market Share

LG Mobile

Funny you mention LG

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot's founding town of Holland, MI has a nice shiny LG battery production plant that was supposed to be making Volt batteries a long time ago but has not produced a single one, and the stimulus money was spent on paying employees to play games, work at charities, etc. while sitting mostly idle. It's pretty much another Solyndra. I wonder if there's bigger things going on in that company.

Microsoft and Nokia: trolling or just stupid?

[Anonymous Coward]

> Microsoft's has a great relationship with Nokia
> which is considered in the industry first among equals
> when it comes to Microsoft partners [...]

Ow, man... Are you trolling or just stupid?
Nokia is occupied by Microsoft and treated as their property.
Open your blind eyes and stop writing such lies.

LG always made the least compelling hardware

[elabs]

With competitors like Nokia and HTC and even Samsung (the least of the three), how could LG compete? Their hardware was always fourth place.

Best Android Maker is 3rd Best Windows Phone Maker

[elabs]

It's funny how the third place Windows Phone, the Samsung Ativ S, is the exact same hardware as the very best Android Phone, the Galaxy S II