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Bitcoin Hits New All-time High of $32
Sabbetus writes "Bitcoin tops its previous all-time high of $31.91 and in doing so it proves to be quite a resilient virtual currency. To the supporters of Bitcoin this does not come as a surprise, since we have seen the likes of WordPress, Reddit and Mega embrace it. Recently Namecheap also confirmed that they will start accepting bitcoins. The new record price was reached on the same day that Mt. Gox, the world's largest Bitcoin exchange, reached an agreement with CoinLab to manage the exchange's operations in the U.S. and Canada."
A far cry from the end of 2011.
A far cry from the end of 2011.
And a far cry from the end of 2012!
... on a more serious note (if such a thing is possible with BTC) everything is proceeding according to plan.
Sorry
My work here is dung.
And a far cry from the end of 2012!
Sell! Dump it all now and get what you can
A new high? That can mean only one thing.
SELL SELL SELL SELL!!
What did you expect from a currency that has a fixed supply and thus inevitable deflation?
The only thing Bitcoin has proven to be is incredibly volatile. Great job? I am suprised these exchanges don't advertise on Glenn Beck.
"but money is the God of Algiers & Mahomet their prophet." - Rich. O'Bryen June 8th 1786
I'll be using my Bitcoins as currency as usual. Trading for services or donating to good causes. I'll continue to accept Bitcoin in exchange for services rendered (only 10 Bitcoin for a handjob!).
Sure, for speculators that matters. For people who just want to use a decentralized non-government/non-corporate currency, it continues to just work.
Oh, and it's not an "anonymous currency", it's a "pseudo-anonymous currency". In the future there will be real laundries that operate with a decent reserve. At that point it becomes more anonymous. I'm looking forward to that future.
HELP MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HACKED BY AN ILLIBERAL ART STUDENT SET TO DESTROY THE INTERWEBZ!
The "old money" is still sitting on most of the coins and will crash the value again by cashing in even a small percentage. The Bitcoin economy is just too small compared to the wealth of the early adopters.
1. Short it
2. ???
3. Profit!
whoa, the trolls are really out on the last few stories.
Better than HP's stock price.
I'm curious to see how bitcoin holds up. If it sticks around, it would be neat to see a long-term comparison between bitcoin, various fiat currencies, and hard commodities.
The sooner BitCoin dies the better, so I can make sure I get in early on the replacement and use my graphics card to get rich.
Seriously, what incentive is there for me to support BTC now the rush is over?
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Geez, get with the times, man.
This is a leading indicator of Bernank's $85Bil/mo and all other commodities because BC is one market the manipulators can't figure out.
Why would anyone consider this a good thing?
It means these coins are being hoarded. If it was real money this would be damaging the economy.
In the bitcoin equivalent of losing loose change in your couch, one of my old hard drives has 4 mined bitcoins on it somewhere. They are rapildly approaching a value high enough for me to stop being lazy and ressurect the machine.
Can't stop going up, guys! I've got plenty to sell. Please buy, as I guarantee this is nowhere near the top. I'm offering mine for $32, and it's a bargain. I'm a fucking moron, so that is why I want you to have mine at this low price.
Fuck me, the captcha is economy.
Wordpress, Mega and Reddit do not take bitcoin. They accept payments through a third-party exchange called BitPay, which converts them into dollars. Why? Because bitcoins are, in fact, worthless and their value depends almost entirely on the liquidity provided by Silk Road and the desire of internet libertarians to get them some Dunning-Krugerands. Until paychecks are issued in bitcoin and you can pay your rent in bitcoin, it's not a currency - it's at best a toy.
Once Bitcoin reaches some level of critical mass, it will attract the attention of the entrenched banking system and their lap dog regulators. If it takes outlawing the possession of graphics cards to stop mining, they'll get that law passed.
If your hard drive will serve as a bank or credit card, you are a serious threat to the banking industry.
Have gnu, will travel.
Somebody who's trying to pump up the price so they dump all their delicious sperggold?
Because human lifetimes are limited, and the value-to-you goes to zero when you die.
This is probably being driven by online gambling. Satoshi Dice is now doing more Bitcoin transactions than all other users combined.
Tulip Speculator
-- January 1637
Right now, bitcoin has a huge presence in the news and other outlets to the masses ... I think a lot of the reason for the current increase in value has much to do with the very same folks that destroy basically all monetary systems. We've got prospectors jumping ship from the dollar to the bitcoin, increasing the difference between the two artificially.
BitCoins might be a GREAT idea for Pot Businesses in Washington State and Colorado.
As we know, Pot Business is now legal in these two states. The folks gearing up to participate seem to just be tooling along not really thinking about the Feds because thus far, the Feds have not gotten nasty over this.
But they almost certainly will. How? Itâ(TM)s not going to involve DEA raids or Black Helicopters. Itâ(TM)s the money.
These business will need banking, and the Feds will simply shut that down, seizing accounts and preventing banks from doing business with Pot Farmers and Retailers.
BitCoins may offer a solution.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Seriously, wtf is a bitcoin?
Valuation of bitcoin, or BTC, in other sovereign currencies isn't the point here - neither is 'cashing out' or any of that nonsense. The end-game here is to supplant and possibly replace sovereign currencies entirely. It may seem overly ambitious, but from all the financial scandals and other daily scams that are perpetuated by the banking and financial industry - people are getting *sick* of how the current system operates.
Edge exchanges will dominate for a while, but as things change, and end-to-end supply chains form that are BTC denominated, the conversion demand will change and people will be able to keep their entire activity within the BTC realm. This is important, because then true monetary freedom has been achieved. Nobody telling you what you can spend your money on, or stipulations as minimum balances or hours of operation.
This is the biggest revolution in finance taking place right in front of you, and most commenters here dismiss it out-of-hand.
For a currency to be useful as a medium of exchange, you want it to be STABLE in regards to the value of whatever it is you want to purchase. (And if it can't be stable, it should at least be predictable.) High volatility, with and edge towards deflation (due to irreplaceable currency loss and any increases in the size of the BitCoin "economy"), makes for a rather poor currency. (You'd have to be completely, utterly, nuts to ever even THINK about taking out a loan in the things)
It's deflated by about 100% in the last month, and as I type this, the current bid/ask spread is 66 basis points. It's what you would expect with a thinly-traded stock; not a serious currency.
An increase in the value vs. the USD is only useful if you are using BtC's as an investment.
The top end of what is likely a wide and volatile trading range
Now... How do I short Bitcoins
I've been saying this ever since Slashdot started carrying every last bit of news about BitCoins. I get flamed every time. Without fail. (Apparently, I "enjoy" inflation, am a crude fighter against innovation, and any understanding of economics I have is not relevant because apparently the entire discipline is invalid. (Unless, of course, it agrees with whatever said BitCoin fanboy is saying.))
Electricity is a higher form of energy that should not be wasted by conversion to room temperature heat. A heat pump can produce double or triple the heat of resistive heating.
I was interested in the technical workings of BitCoin and what the user experience was really like, but I just couldn't wrap my head around it without, you know, USING it. So I purchased about $40 worth of BitCoin via Western Union to one of the exchanges. At the time, that net me about 3 BTC. I started playing around with it, transferring it from my PC wallet to my phone wallet... getting an idea of how transfers went. It was an interesting concept "loading" my phone with BitCoin from my PC "safe" and then carrying that around with me. Then I started looking for things to do with it... I got on BitMit and purchased a few Steam games, some USB cables... All at a pretty hefty USD discount. And it was pretty neat just scanning a QR code and bam, payment sent. Granted the USB cables haven't arrived yet because they're shipping from China... But, whatever.
After actually SPENDING it, I decided to start accepting it at my GunBroker auctions. PayPal doesn't (knowingly) handle transactions related to firearms or firearm accessories, and a lot of buyers were interesting in this "BitCoin" thing. An instant way to transfer funds with almost no fees? Yes please. Unfortunately, most of them got stuck at obtaining it, much as I would be confused about how to obtain Euros if someone accepted only Euros. So far, no one has paid in BTC.
However, I am seeing more BTC accepting auctions out there, which corresponds to its value increasing. That's pretty neat.
I don't plan on keeping my money in BTC, as I don't trust it that fully, but I've gotten comfortable enough with getting money in and out of BTC-land that the transactions have become pretty fluid. Right now, my only concern is its volatility. It sucks to buy something for the $20 USD equivalent and then having it arrive when that $20 worth of BitCoin is now worth $50 USD. It works for me, though.
If any 1 wants to make a "deposit" in my buttcoin vault
PLEASE use a hosts file for PROTECTION.
This one time, in band camp, I stuck a hosts file in my...
APK
Because it won't happen.
Look as the number of countries that didn't join the Eurozone either because of national pride or because of a desire to not link their economy to others in such a dramatic way. You think they're going to decide to conduct business in Bitcoin? And lose basically every large scale monetary economic policy imaginable? Of course you're going to switch anyway and just convert to pay your taxes, I know. You and who else though, most people in the world have no use for an online currency when their paper one works just fine. These are people who don't have bank accounts and you think they're going to switch right over to encrypted key files?
Call my great great great grandchildren when it happens.
This is an old and tired argument. There is no central issuer of bitcoins promising high gains to new investors and paying off old investors with the proceeds. New bitcoins are issued in a decentralized fashion for verifying the transaction history. Therefore it does not meet the definition of a pyramid scheme.
What it is closer to is a collaboratively built database which tracks account balances. What value is put on those balances in terms of other goods (including local currencies) is purely a supply and demand situation, there never was a promise of any future value made. What value people find in it is the features the software and database provides - privacy, fast transfers around the world, low fees, predictable growth rate, etc.
People are sick of the current currencies because they are realizing the currencies are FIAT only. BitCoins are also FIAT currency, but unlike national currencies, are limited resource (deflationary). AND with most other currencies being inflationary, BitCoins will only INCREASE in value, especially as they become more popular (FIAT) for normal trading (buying/selling items).
My only concern is how does BitCoin handle fractions of coins? Is it built into the protocol and if so, how.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Comparing Bitcoin to a small nation is actually a valid one. $33/coin at the moment x 10.84 million coins in circulation = $358 million in circulation. That puts it between Swaziland and Burundi, two small African nations. It just happens that the "Bitcoinians" are a distributed online nation, instead of tied to geography. That there are 23 smaller national money supplies, and 167 larger ones does not invalidate Bitcoin, in fact it shows it has already reached the scale for a national currency, if not the world's largest. Given the value was trivial as little as 2 years ago, that is quite an achievement. It show how fast adoption can be for an internet-based tool.
Only when you forget the laws of thermodynamic. Watts are still Watts no matter what the source.
Computer heat WILL even be harnessed in order to save energy and climate in the not too distant future:
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/specials/climate_change/energy/Harnessing_computer_heat_can_cut_energy_bills.html?cid=45860
I see it as an inherently transnational currency, where other currencies are locally issued and controlled, although they may be traded and used outside their native region. Removing national borders as toll booths and inspection stations is a plus for trade, just like removing river and bridge tolls was in early European trade.
How divisible are bitcoins? A bitcoin can be divided down to 8 decimal places. Therefore, 0.00000001 BTC is the smallest amount that can be handled in a transaction. If necessary, the protocol and related software can be modified to handle even smaller amounts. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ#How_divisible_are_bitcoins.3F
Good to know. Because that is going to be needed eventually.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
No, it's a nerd trap and no more a currency than limited edition plates with pictures of magical ponies on them. You can trade them with other enthusiasts, but that doesn't make them a currency.
The end-game here is to supplant and possibly replace sovereign currencies entirely.
The problem with replacing sovereign currencies is that there's no one steering the ship when things get ugly.
Europe is a prime example where sovereign currencies were replaced, everything has gone to shit, and there's 27 competing agendas.
I'm happy to see bitcoins form the foundation of a parallel economy, but fuck no I don't want it to supplant or replace the dollar.
It may seem overly ambitious, but from all the financial scandals and other daily scams that are perpetuated by the banking and financial industry - people are getting *sick* of how the current system operates.
This could be fixed, but the bankers and the regulators are far too tightly intertwined.
Look at the shit show created by Republicans because Obama and Elizabeth Warren created the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau to be independant of Congress.
Republicans have held a gun to the CFPB's head since its inception, because Obama wouldn't neuter the organization.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Any real currency with fluctuations of this magnitude would be said to be in a crisis and there would be massive stabilization efforts going on. If it was actually a currency (it really isn't, it is a speculation and money laundering tool) it would be experiencing the first ever case of hyper-deflation that I'm aware of.
Anyone who thinks this bodes well for Bitcoin's future doesn't understand money very well. This is NOT good. A good story on Bitcoin would be "For the past two years BTC has remained remarkably stable compared to a basket of important world currencies." If it was functioning as a stable store of value, then maybe there would be some validity to using it as a currency.
As it stands, with the massive the huge deflation and massive volatility (it moves up and down a LOT in a day) it is completely unsuitable as a currency.
At the end of the day, money is Power. Those who hold monopoly-on-violence decide what objects can contain and transmit Power. The entire valuation of bitcoin could be wiped up with the stroke of a pen because it is not Power and cannot be Power without Sovereign backing.
Good-bye
There's no possible way to have a deflationary currency work, why do you think everyone gave up gold decades ago. If instead bitcoin's supply grew exponentially, it would have the possibility you mention. Unfortunately, it's demise was promised from the beginning with it's design flaw of limited supply.
That's actually the problem with bitcoin, is that it's deflationary. This makes it completely useless as actual currency, unless of course you're a billionaire gold advocate that just wants to hoard it and become even richer.
By definition, bitcoin isn't fiat. Fiat means by decree. I think you are trying to say that bitcoin isn't backed by anything.
Bitcoins are currently divisible to 8 decimal places.
Go buy a half of a bitcoin at walmart, and learn something interesting. Its easy and worth the price of education for anyone who is at least a little technical! See www.bitinstsnt.com to buy at walmart.
Www.bitinstant.com... that is
I always vote up these stories, because when one comes out it's funny watching you guys howl
i've got plenty to sell you. believe me its real regards, skoony
The other main difference is that Bitcoinia doesn't issue its money. Whereas other countries issue the money and use the proceeds to build roads and purchase other items that, ideally, will benefit all residents of the country, Bitcoinia doesn't generate any such shared benefit. Instead, that benefit is given to the early adopters who mined Bitcoins when mining was simple.
That's what people object to about Bitcoin and why people liken it to a Ponzi scheme. It's not a Ponzi scheme, but it shares the property that people who buy into it early profit while those who come later get ripped off. And that's why national currencies are more fair. The only early adopter is the issuing government and its understood that buying into that market means, essentially, investing in that country's infrastructure. Meanwhile, buying into the Bitcoin market means making early adopters exceedingly wealthy.
With a 60 basis point spread, plus your transaction costs for sweeping, plus the volatility induced by the lag between your transaction and when you can unload the things, that's a pretty steep surcharge. While that may be worth it as an "anonymity shield", as a general-purpose currency, why would you use this instead of USD?
Again, it's value going up is great if you want to use it as an investment. There are lots of different things you can use as a hedge against USD inflation. But I'm referring to BitCoin's alleged use as a general purpose currency. And I think I make a pretty convincing argument that as a currency, it's less than ideal, to say the least.
Did you read me (or the GP) arguing that BitCoins are useless because an entire BitCoin is worth too many USD? No. (I'm aware many people that don't like BitCoins make this argument, but I'm not one of them.)
The fact that you can keep slicing BitCoins into tinier and tinier pieces doesn't solve the problems deflation introduces. It helps somewhat with it's usefulness for individual transactions, that's all. The basic problem introduced by the fact that a BitCoin now is worth WAY more than one a year ago remains.
As I said, apparently economics is invalid when an economist says something you disagree with, but the absolutely trustworthy when an economist makes a point in the other direction?
The deflation/depression study was a single study using a limited set of data points, and acknowledged limitations (which you conveniently overlooked.) I don't think that it demonstrated conclusively that any particular theory was right or wrong (nor did it pretend to.) It certainly made some good points, but that's a long way away from what you are claiming.
I don't understand. Why does it need to be "stable" to be used for exchanges? By some measures, the US dollar has dropped by a factor of 100 in a century; is that stable?
The USD has never changed in value by a factor of two inside of two months. Yes, compared to BitCoins, the USD is solid as a rock. I was referring to short-term fluctuations, not long-term trends. (Long-term trends can be accounted for... wild intra-day fluctuations that would drive any normal economy into economic paralysis cannot.)
If a currency's value relative to other goods is increasing, it does indeed make for a nice store of value. (That is what investments are for.) But as a medium of exchange (what most people refer to when they say "currency"), a rapid increase in value makes it considerably LESS valuable.
My "deflation phobia" doesn't refer to long, gradual, deflation. Whatever. Japan has had it for years, and while their economy isn't thriving, it's not in the depths of depression. Deflation can be countered against via interest rates to a limited amount. My "deflation phobia" refers to the extremely rapid deflation of the BitCoin, which is another matter entirely.
BitCoin is not a form of money, yet.
I know that. That's the point I keep repeating. (That it's an investment, not a viable general-purpose currency.) So what point are you making, exactly?
But if there is true "deflation", i.e. the price of goods keeps getting cheaper and cheaper relative to a currency due to productivity increases, then only the most promising entrepenurial endeavors can hope to improve the situation further. Most ideas would be malinvestments and the discouragement of borrowing makes sense.
Deflation of 100% in two months doesn't "discourage" borrowing; it makes it completely, utterly, impossible. 100% 60-day interest rate makes the most ruthless loan shark look like a screaming bargain.
Speaking as a small-time "old money" person (wearing my "I remember when a Bitcoin only cost a nickel" T-shirt), I think you're wrong. If you've got a lot of bitcoins, then it is dumb to sell them all at once. You drive the price down and end up with either a huge capital gains tax bill that you have to pay or a huge potential problem if the IRS audits you and asks you where you got the $50,000 that suddenly appeared in your bank account. Much better to sell slowly over time. And even better to just use your bitcoin wealth to purchase things that you can buy with bitcoin, so you avoid exchange and wire transfer fees. More bitcoin trade helps make your remaining bitcoins more valuable, too...
Think about it:
A slave is a product. Murder is a service.
It's not backed by anybodies reputation and it has a built in cap to help the scam mature. It's no more a currency than limited edition dinner plates with pictures of magical ponies - it only has barter value among enthusiasts.
It's not actually a currency backed by anyone's reputation - it's a token like the original ponzi was.
Previous posters have pointed out how the extreme volatility of bitcoins makes them unsuitable as a currency. I'll add that the risk of loss (due to technical problems with one's own equipment or to hacks at repositories) seems uncomfortably high too.
They are REAL, I mine them, I bought them low 2-4 USD , I use them (a lot), I sold some 28-31USD, they are damn profitable... I really don't understand what the speculation is about their value, they work pretty damn well and unlike the US Dollar their buying power is going up and up. Best part is they are not being manipulated by corrupt governments or the creeps from the Federal Reserve Bank. People bagging on BTC are either trolling, under informed, or simply hating due to the lack of their own BTC :)
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.
Bitcoin isn't going to replace any existing fiat currency, it was never it's goal. The beauty is in having a viable alternative medium of exchange and store of value, entirely optional.
You're arguing semantics here. The curve that they're using with regards to adding new BTC into the system ensures that the early adopters get money essentially for nothing and that later adopters pay more to enter.
The fact of the matter is that this looks an awful lot like a Ponzi scheme, ducking out of it with technicality doesn't change the fact that there's an inherent benefit to getting in early and hyping it up, trying to lure in suckers. And the ending will be more or less the same as in any Ponzi scheme.
Your quote is just a distraction since as written it cannot apply to bitcoin without a redefinition of the word "money".
Sort of. They're more like penny stocks or junk bonds. The moment people actually cash them in, the value that they have collectively drops. So, if there's just one that goes for $5, the value drops to about $50m, which isn't good. And then suddenly, people rush to get in and it can easily quadruple or more all of a sudden.
This is a similar problem to looking at Apple's market cap and concluding that if everybody sold, that amount of money would be required. In practice it wouldn't because the act of selling would depress the share price pretty quickly.
It's been an amazing evolution during the last few months. If you had invested all your money on Bitcoin when it was worth $13 you'd have doubled your money in less than two months. What will 2013 bring to Bitcoin? If you still don't use this virtual currency, start here now! Don't miss the boat! - http://thebitcoinmaster.blogspot.com
It's "decentralized" while its main players are still mostly middle-class individuals and small-mid sized businesses. If a Goldman-Sachs or Citi got involved and sucked up most of the transaction validation/mining, they could falsify transactions.
the likes of WordPress, Reddit and Mega embrace it (...) Namecheap also
Such massively powerful supporters! Impressive indeed! USD, JPY, EUR, GBP, be afraid, be very afraid of the new cyber currency!
Every bubble is different. But they all finish same way.
I don't know much about BitCoins, but, as I've worked in the financial services industry for almost eight years I've got to say that any currency that goes from $3 to $32 (a 966% increase) in just over a year is not a currency worth investing in unless you're into an unfathomable amount of risk. Let alone all the apparent security issues surrounding it.
A man paid 10,000 BTC for 2 Home-delivered Pizzas. His name was Lazlo. He is the reason the currency gaining value.
People are sick of the current currencies because they are realizing the currencies are FIAT only. BitCoins are also FIAT currency, but unlike national currencies, are limited resource (deflationary). AND with most other currencies being inflationary, BitCoins will only INCREASE in value, especially as they become more popular (FIAT) for normal trading (buying/selling items).
My only concern is how does BitCoin handle fractions of coins? Is it built into the protocol and if so, how.
Bitcoin is not a currency but a commodity valued in terms of government controlled currencies. If there were no ,effort and expense that went into mining.
governments there would be chaos. Just because it is called a currency(bitcoin) does not make it a currency. The commodity value of bitcoin is the cost
At the moment, monetary wealth is incredibly disproportionately held. Doesn't stop fiat currencies working.
If Bitcoin takes off as an international currency, then the initial enthusiasm of early adopters will have played a large part in this. Those bit-billionaires deserve a very hefty reward for getting a currency started that governments can't print at will, or track.
To the extent they spend their money, they redistribute it throughout society, and they'll have to spend it in order to get, at the very least, food, water, and utilities.
True, an eeeevil bit-zillionaire could crash the value of bitcoin. But two observations spring to mind about this:
1. What happened to Zimbabwe's currency? What happened to the mark during the Weimar Republic? What the hell do you think the bank bailouts and Quantitative Easing have been doing to the Dollar, Euro and Pound Sterling recently? You don't need eeeeevil bit-zillionaires in order to monkey with the currency, you just need an unscrupulous government, which can be had for tuppence ha'penney. At least you can't print Bitcoins.
2. If you're worried about the value of Bitcoin crashing (reasonable), don't keep your savings in Bitcoin! Keep it in something else (gold?), and use a service that will easily exchange your gold for bitcoins when you want to cash in some of them. Such services would spring up pretty readily in the event that Bitcoin took of but remained volatile.
BitCoins are also FIAT currency
Not so. People hold fiat currency thanks to a legal decree, or in other words, by fiat. Hence the name. Here's wikipedia's wisdom:
Fiat money is money that derives its value from government regulation or law. The term fiat currency is used when the fiat money is used as the main currency of the country. The term derives from the Latin fiat ("let it be done", "it shall be").
Bitcoins are not themselves a fiat currency, though they did arguably emerge in response to the fiat hegemony.
Everyone gave up gold because the government stole it by force of law...
It's been an amazing evolution during the last few months. If you had invested all your money on Bitcoin when it was worth $13 you'd have doubled your money in less than two months. What will 2013 bring to Bitcoin? If you still don't use this virtual currency, start here now! Don't miss the boat! - http://thebitcoinmaster.blogspot.com