Slashdot Mirror


Apple's Lightning-to-HDMI Dongle Secretly Packed With ARM, Airplay

New submitter joelville writes "After noticing artifacts and a 1600 × 900 image in the output from Apple's new Lightning Digital AV Adapter, the Panic Blog sawed it open and found an ARM chip inside. They suspect that video bypasses the cable entirely and instead uses Airplay to stream three inches to make up for the Lightning connector's shortcomings."

392 comments

  1. Car analogy by sinij · · Score: 4, Funny

    Can someone please explain this with a car analogy?

    1. Re:Car analogy by EmagGeek · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's like having a 300HP engine in your fancy new sportscar, but all it does is turn an electric generator that delivers 50HP to the electric drive motor.

      Yet, they sell it to you as a 300HP sports car.

    2. Re:Car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's like when the wheels don't have the right screws and are held in place by magnetic hub caps instead.

    3. Re:Car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The tyre contains a tiny engine powering a air compressor to keep the air pressure up

    4. Re:Car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well it's like you have a 50cc moped and you look under the engine cover and find a 7-litre Cosworth engine powering your wheels through a rubber band.

    5. Re:Car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      How about a NasCar analogy?

      They put a restrictor plate so that the cars can't go so fast. Thus they can race in an unsuitable venue to keep the rabid fans happy.

    6. Re:Car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Manufacturer changes the car>MP3 player interface for a new proprietary connector, discovers that the new cable can't handle highest-quality audio like the old one could, and so makes a cable with a system-on-chip CPU to wirelessly transfer the data instead. People notice this when the wireless transfer introduces imperfections in the output.

      Allegedly anyway.

    7. Re:Car analogy by LamboAlpha · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I wish I had mod points for you...

    8. Re:Car analogy by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Funny

      ...that delivers 50HP to the electric drive motor...

      ...using microwaves.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    9. Re:Car analogy by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      It's like finding out that your BMW M5 comes with a factory installed speed limiter.

    10. Re:Car analogy by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Funny

      How about a NasCar fan analogy? You think they have brains, but when you open up their skulls you find tiny Leprechauns jacking off to chrome hubcap advertisements.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    11. Re:Car analogy by romiz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't get confused. The high-tech Intel interconnect once known as LightPeak is called Thunderbolt. Here, we are talking the proprietary, low-tech, USB-like symmetrical connector Apple uses on their recent iOS devices, whose name is on purpose confusing everyone with its better counterpart.

      And from what we see here, it's markedly worse than the alternatives Apple shunned, but that were based on standards (MHL, USB3), because those would have prevented Apple from imposing drastic licensing conditions on accessory manufacturers.

    12. Re:Car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Swing and a miss. The airplay reference is that the image quality over the wired connection is similar to the image quality with wireless airplay. IE, there are compression artifacts.

    13. Re:Car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can someone please explain this with a car analogy?

      The Wizard of Oz is driving the car. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain in the drivers seat - just know that "it just works"

      Posted ac to drive home the point.

    14. Re:Car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Its not wireless. The signal is still coming out of the plug.

    15. Re:Car analogy by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 0

      Its not wireless. The signal is still coming out of the plug.

      It would also come from the rectenna into the electric drive motor via a cable, but a part of the path would be wireless. Because unless I'm having a really bad day, "Airplay" is Apple's *wireless* streaming technology.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    16. Re:Car analogy by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Someone looks under your car while you're driving, and notices the that while you do have axles and a transaxle, none of them are turning even though you're moving. The main engine runs a generator, the power is sent by wire to each wheel, which have their own electric motors. All the axles are just for .. ballast.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    17. Re:Car analogy by trum4n · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's like having 1000hp hooked to an automatic transmission.

    18. Re:Car analogy by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 4, Funny

      . . . it's like opening the hood of your new car, and finding a team of miniature Steve Jobs' bike pedaling the drive train while chanting "Don’t let the noise of others’ opinions drown out your own inner voice," and blowing the smoke of hallucinogenic mushrooms out through the catalytic converter while burning their votes for the new Pope living in a Crystal palace in the sky over Apples new headquarters impounded at a dock in Amsterdam . . .

      Who's been sleeping in my brain . . . ?

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    19. Re:Car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      If you have used both you'd know that from a purely physical point of view the Lightning connector is much better than the Thunderbolt one (and much better than the useless micro-USB and it's micro-USB 3 derivatives (those bloody things always wobble)).

    20. Re: Car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Airplay is a network streaming technology. The network can be wired or wireless.

    21. Re:Car analogy by thepainguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's like a car company offering a stabilized phonograph in your car, for your ultra-high fidelity analog listening pleasure, and then not being able to make the interface between the phonograph and the stereo work and bailing and having the phonograph input through an FM band transmitter that plays through the radio.

    22. Re:Car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The M5 does come from the factory with a 155mph speed limiter, actually.

    23. Re: Car analogy by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1, Troll

      Wow, that makes it even more braindead, given how much more bandwidth you have in a wired network. Does it at least stream with better bitrate over a wired network?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    24. Re:Car analogy by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 5, Funny

      No, it's like 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife.

      --
      http://www.rootstrikers.org/
    25. Re:Car analogy by newcastlejon · · Score: 2

      Many German cars do, or rather did as the restriction is becoming less common. Similar to the situation with the Japanese manufacturers that agreed to artificially limit their engines' power, the larger German companies agreed together to limit their cars to 155mph. I don't know what the reasons behind this were, but it may have something to do with the tyres available at that time or general driver safety. Most makers will supply a car without the limit at no extra charge - and it's usually very easy to remove from speed-limited models - and others never applied the limit in the first place.

      --
      If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
    26. Re:Car analogy by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1

      General safety. Idiot + insanely fast car = 'oh the humanity'. There thinking is the end user mods the car that it's not really their fault when the user plows in to a school bus at 200MPH.

    27. Re:Car analogy by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 5, Funny

      No, it's like 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife.

      Don't be silly. There is no spoon.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    28. Re:Car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      google makes hubcaps?

    29. Re:Car analogy by Quila · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's having a car designed to carry four people, but we fitted it out to carry six, the actual maximum it can carry at this time. But we wanted eight.

      And it's not sold as carrying eight either. Back to actuals, it's not sold as a Lightning to HDMI cable, but a Lightning to digital AV cable.

    30. Re:Car analogy by ZorinLynx · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This is a silly analogy these days. There are modern automatic transmissions that are basically just automated clutch-equipped gearboxes rather than the standard torque-converter-automatic that saps power like crazy.

      Those transmissions transmit no less power to the wheels than a manual transmission would. Not only that, but they can shift faster than 95% of people can shift a manual transmission, so unless you're a freaking NASCAR driver you're going to get better performance using one of these than on a standard manual tranny.

      Also they often have paddle shifters or similar so if you want to shift manually you still can.

    31. Re: Car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Think tourqe converter.

    32. Re:Car analogy by dj245 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Many German cars do, or rather did as the restriction is becoming less common. Similar to the situation with the Japanese manufacturers that agreed to artificially limit their engines' power, the larger German companies agreed together to limit their cars to 155mph. I don't know what the reasons behind this were, but it may have something to do with the tyres available at that time or general driver safety.

      With a 155mph limit, every carmaker can claim to sell the fastest car.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    33. Re: Car analogy by chaboud · · Score: 1

      It's like when you trade your old Civic in for a new Civic and discover that they've made it a little bit worse.

      Oh.. Hey!

    34. Re:Car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The irony is that a song called "Isn't it Ironic?" is not about irony.

    35. Re:Car analogy by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      German tuning parts seem to be the most expensive tuning parts "...in the world" so I assume the logic is actually that anyone who can afford them can afford to pay the bills and such in a major collision. Or, well, their estate can.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    36. Re:Car analogy by GrahamCox · · Score: 4, Funny

      Thunderbolt and Lightning... very, very frightening indeed!

    37. Re:Car analogy by Gordonjcp · · Score: 0

      How quickly you change gear makes absolutely no difference to performance. *When* you change gear is crucial, and no automatic gearbox can solve that problem.

    38. Re:Car analogy by ThePeices · · Score: 4, Funny

      How quickly you change gear makes absolutely no difference to performance. *When* you change gear is crucial, and no automatic gearbox can solve that problem.

      So what you are saying, is that I can take 17 seconds to change a gear, but if I change it at just the right moment, ill lose no performance at all compared with somebody who changes gears in 1 second?

      Sir, I am in awe of your logic.

    39. Re:Car analogy by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Next time you're driving behind me let me know by flashing your lights. When we take off at the traffic light going up the hill I'll put my foot on the clutch and then take a tea break while we count the number of horses powering my wheels while my foot isn't on the accelerator.

      Question, do you actually believe the garbage you wrote? Automatic gearboxes can be tuned for performance to shift at the ideal spot every time. Maybe not in your shitty sedan but there's a reason why many motorsports use automatic gearboxes.

    40. Re:Car analogy by Minwee · · Score: 5, Funny

      The irony is that a song called "Isn't it Ironic?" is not about irony.

      Betteridge's Law of song titles clearly applies there.

    41. Re:Car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, there are people with esoteric knowledge on Slashdot. Automatic transmissions O_o Have seen one in my entire life.

    42. Re:Car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      Galileo,Galileo, Galileo Galileo Galileo figaro... Magnifico!

    43. Re:Car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      name 3 cars under $35000 that have an automated manual.

    44. Re:Car analogy by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 2

      Actually, I always think of Thunderbolt and Lightfoot. But that's just me.

    45. Re:Car analogy by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 2

      I remember the previous generation of Audi's TT had this annoying habit of flipping over above 130 MPH. The solution was (a) add a spoiler and (b) limit the speed to 130 MPH.

    46. Re:Car analogy by evenmoreconfused · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For me the difference is knowing what gear I will be in when I go around the next corner.

      I hate pressing the gas into a nice curve only to find a piss-poor response, followed by a laboured downshift and only some seconds later catching up to where I want to be. With a manual shift, I can put it where I want before it has to discover for itself that it's in the wrong gear. Also, it's way more fun.

      (Proud driver of a Mazda Miata for more than 15 years, not to mention a half-dozen other "fun but not high-performance" sports cars).

      --
      No. Well...maybe. Actually, yes. It really just depends.
    47. Re:Car analogy by Sulphur · · Score: 1

      How about a NasCar fan analogy? You think they have brains, but when you open up their skulls you find tiny Leprechauns jacking off to chrome hubcap advertisements.

      Drinking from wheel covers is addictive.

    48. Re:Car analogy by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's like having 1000hp hooked to an automatic transmission.

      Anyone generating serious horsepower is using an automatic transmission.
      The guys at Bugatti will sell you a 1,000* horsepower 7-speed manual transmission for $120,000.
      The guys at Hughes Performance will sell you a 3~4,000 horsepower 2 or 3 speed automatic transmission for $8,000.

      Really high horsepower cars don't even have transmissions, just a bunch of clutch plates that progressively engage until the tires are 1:1 with the engine.
      *The Bugatti has to electronically limit the horsepower at low speeds or it would destroy their manual transmission.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    49. Re:Car analogy by damnbunni · · Score: 4, Informative

      I can do that without even needing more than one make.

      GTI ($26k model), Beetle Turbo or diesel version ($24.5k), Sportwagen diesel station wagon ($27k), Jetta sedan diesel or hybrid ($24k), CC ($32k), Eos $34.7k).

      So that's six cars with an automated manual under $35k, and I didn't even have to leave Volkswagen.

    50. Re:Car analogy by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 0
      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    51. Re:Car analogy by Kreigaffe · · Score: 1

      Hell if what I read was right, the damn Dodge Dart has a automated manual, and that thing's under 20k (they called it.. double dry clutch or something else fancy, i didn't investigate but i assume that's what it is)

      which really, is pretty danged rad. bodes well for wider market penetration, don't see any downside to it really

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
    52. Re:Car analogy by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      My Jetta has one, and we got it for around $6k from Enterprise...probably one of the best investments ever concerning a car. It was very clean, well maintained, all shop visits well documented... And it's way fast. Popping up from 1st-2nd-3rd etc at the exact right moment, knowing when to hit the gas and shift at the exact right RPM...then once your in 6th switch to sport mode...getting up to 100 on a somewhat busy highway is no problem, especially when I'm late for work. Once I get out ahead of the traffic, back down to normal drive to save on the gas. I love the car, it's very powerful and smooth. And blowing by some stupid looking "tricked out" neon-light wanna-be drifter is quite fun, especially when you can hear they are giving it all they have and I'm barely hitting 4-5K rpm before I shift up and leave them behind. Of course, sometimes they try to chase me down the highway...spoiled rich kids in their fancy BMW lol.

    53. Re:Car analogy by Guppy · · Score: 2

      The irony is that a song called "Isn't it Ironic?" is not about irony.

      Then it's about Goldy and Bronzy, then?

    54. Re:Car analogy by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Doesn't the Smart car have an automatic manual (that really sucks, IMHO).

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    55. Re:Car analogy by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      Not to mention it doesn't know to downshift when you're going downhill to save your breaks.

      Actually, yes, it does. My VW won't do it right away, but it'll do it soon enough.

    56. Re:Car analogy by zyzko · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Also, I can shift faster than an automated manual, and I'd bet most other experienced manual drivers can too.

      No you propably can't. Even the consumer-grade gearboxes now used in VAG cars have change-time measured in a few hundreds of milliseconds (worst case scenario when shifting to gear the transmission is not prepared for), the best case scenario being the Ferraris with gear change time measured in tens of milliseconds. So I call this bullshit, even if you are capable of superhuman speed gear changes, most experienced manual drivers are not. (I'm driving a manual, but that is because it is cheaper, if I had the money my car would have double-clutch automatic gearbox.)

    57. Re: Car analogy by djjockey · · Score: 2

      I see you've played knifey-spoony before...

    58. Re:Car analogy by Nabeel_co · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't say it's a silly analogy. The fact of the matter is, the far majority of automatic transmissions in new cars these days are still using a torque converter, and really don't compare in anyway to a manual transmission.

      As for the 95% of people who can't shift fast enough, that's why 95% of cars are sold as automatics.
      I don't think its a question of skill anyway, I think its a question of willingness of the driver to improve their skills.

    59. Re:Car analogy by mosb1000 · · Score: 0

      Hundreds of milliseconds? You mean tenths of seconds? As in more than one tenth of a second? That's not really very fast.

      What I do is time it so that my gear selector reaches the new gear at the same time as I've fully depressed the clutch, then I let my foot off of the clutch. It takes me 200ms tops. I can see if you push the clutch in fully, then change gears, then let it out it might take you maybe half a second if you are slow and careful about it, but that's not necessary because you can pull it out of gear without even touching the clutch. Any gear change you haven't botched should only take a few tenths of a second.

    60. Re:Car analogy by damnbunni · · Score: 1

      This gets even more confusing because VW offers a pretty good manumatic as well as an automatically shifted manual.

      The difference? A manumatic is a torque-converter based automatic transmission that you can shift manually if you want to. An automatically shifted manual is a clutch-based manual transmission that a computer can shift for you.

      If your car has a Tiptronic, it's actually a manumatic, not an automatic manual. (VW calls that DSG.) I'd be surprised to find a DSG in a rental car.

    61. Re:Car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At that time? It's still pretty common. Reason being ... they still ship with tires rated to 155.

    62. Re: Car analogy by JonBoy47 · · Score: 2

      Ford Fiesta, Focus. VW Jetta, Golf, GTI, Beetle. Hyundai Veloster. Dodge Dart. All have automated dual clutch manuals. In the case of Ford and Hyundai it is the only "automatic" offered on those models. The Smart car has a single clutch automated manual as the only transmission.

    63. Re:Car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And then they stop and tell you off.

    64. Re: Car analogy by JonBoy47 · · Score: 1

      Lockup torque converter. Transmits torque directly, bypassing hydraulics when engaged, which is most of the time in a modern car, in the name of fuel economy. Also slush boxes do have all those lovely gear selections below "D" such as "2", "1" or "L" which work nicely to provide engine braking on grades. The cruise control in my wife's Caravan routinely downshifts to maintain set speed on downgrades via engine braking.

    65. Re:Car analogy by Blymie · · Score: 1

      Go read up on dsg again.

    66. Re:Car analogy by MoronGames · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, most motorsports do not use an automatic transmission. Many race cars do use newer automatically shifted manual transmissions such as: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission

      The only "motorsport" I can think of which favors automatic transmissions is drag racing, and those are specially built units. Slushboxes are no good for really any other type of racing.

      --
      hey!
    67. Re:Car analogy by mjwx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How quickly you change gear makes absolutely no difference to performance. *When* you change gear is crucial, and no automatic gearbox can solve that problem.

      So what you are saying, is that I can take 17 seconds to change a gear, but if I change it at just the right moment, ill lose no performance at all compared with somebody who changes gears in 1 second?

      Sir, I am in awe of your logic.

      You clearly dont drive a manual.

      I can accelerate into a corner, put the clutch in, slow and gear down as I turn and use heel to toe whilst releasing the clutch as I come out of the turn for better acceleration. Admittedly, I do this at roundabouts more often than I should.

      An Automatic gearbox has to wait until I start to accelerate to drop back down a gear. Automatic gearboxes are always reactionary, a good manual driver is proactive. There is no way, any current production auto can pre-empt what a driver is going to do. Maybe when we've invented enough AI but then again, if we have computers advanced enough to tell what a person will do with that regularity, a person will be sitting in the back sipping martini's whilst the car does all the work.

      When I drive auto's, especially "sports" automatic transmissions, they always gear up when I put my foot down, then when they realise I've put my foot down they drop a gear and jump 2000 RPM. Not smooth at all.

      What the GP should have said, is that when you drive a manual, you can be in gear before you need it, an Auto is always going to be in gear after you need it... then again if you drove a manual you'd know that (or be really, really crap at driving a manual, in either case my point stands).

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    68. Re:Car analogy by CdBee · · Score: 2

      I'm sorry but thats laughably inaccurate. The ideal shift requires knowledge of road conditions ahead, rising or falling gradients, the curve of the road, traffic conditions. Only a human operator can provide that., A gearbox can only measure torque, revs and response. It cant even come close to the efficiency of a competent human operator... and as pointed out above it won't pre-switch either. Although to be fair this applies to IC engines, electric cars / transmission WILL change the balance back in favour of automatic or even fixed-ratio gearboxes

      --
      I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
    69. Re:Car analogy by CdBee · · Score: 1

      yeah but the change in an automatic car happens in hundreds of milliseconds, about 30 seconds after the human operator of a manual car has figured out which gear he needs to be in for the next bit of road and already changed gear ;-)

      --
      I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
    70. Re:Car analogy by zyzko · · Score: 1

      I said that is the worst case scenario, when the gearbox has to select a different gear for the shift it is prepared for (I bet you are also slower if you have to skip a gear and go 2 gears down for an example because you have to move the gear selector a longer route). In a normal situation a double-clutch gearbox works just as you do manually, (it has the next gear selected and it just needs clutch-action) it is just way faster at it and the because it has two clutches it doesn't risk a miss-timing (as you do, you really have to time your shifting good if you start pressing the clutch after you have moved gear to neutral, if you manage to time this every time in tenths of a seconds without missing the change so that you can't select the gear because the clutch is still engaged - congratulations - but I bet "most experienced drivers" can't do this successfully constantly).

      I did not comment on if the changes are optimal or if the computer picks the gear human would like 100% of the time at the precise moment the human would like, but that's why all the double-clutch solutions I have seen also have paddles you can use to select the point when to change. Although the computer selects better both fuel-economy wise and has better acceleration on full throttle...

    71. Re:Car analogy by Gordonjcp · · Score: 2

      Obviously I'm not talking about taking ten minutes to change gear, I'm talking about the difference between the 500ms it takes to change gear with a manual gearbox versus the 100ms it takes the very fastest dual-clutch systems to change gear.

      If it's in the wrong gear at the wrong time, it doesn't matter how quickly it changes...

    72. Re:Car analogy by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

      I do wonder how people who drive automatics manage to cope with fast, curvy roads like we have in this part of the world (NW Scotland, twisty mountain roads with a 60mph limit that is considered a rough guideline for the minimum speed on the worst parts). You need to change gear pretty much constantly to keep the car balanced, otherwise you'll just fall off the road.

      When I'm driving an automatic, I'm constantly switching between Drive, 3rd and even 2nd depending on the road conditions. You get used to switching a couple of seconds earlier than you'd change on a manual, to give the gearbox time to get its little hydraulic head together...

    73. Re:Car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See the anonymous insider comment

      Actually the video is compressed with the device's airplay encoders but sent directly through the lightning serial interface, not streamed wirelessly or using AirPlay protocols. It's then decoded and upscaled by the SoC on the adapter.

      It's still a hardware wired connection, but as the bus data transfer rate is too low for raw HDMI, the video passes as resolution limited, lossy h264.

      Anyway the real issue here is no lossless nor 1080p video output is possible on those devices...

    74. Re:Car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The M5 does come from the factory with a 155mph speed limiter, actually.

      I'm pretty sure the OP knows this, and wasn't expecting some wannabe smart ass educating him on such.

    75. Re:Car analogy by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry but thats laughably inaccurate. The ideal shift requires knowledge of road conditions ahead, rising or falling gradients, the curve of the road, traffic conditions. Only a human operator can provide that.

      Or say a map on a racetrack. Assuming you're on a racetrack and not a dragstrip.

      And all that assuming that maximum speed is the primary goal as opposed to maximum torque which is far more important in several motor sports.

    76. Re:Car analogy by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I didn't say most, I said many. And there are several others including competition off-roading and most of the shit that goes on in American southern states where the goal seems to be a to simply break shit. There are several motorsports where maintaining peak torque is one of the key criteria to winning.

    77. Re: Car analogy by Nabeel_co · · Score: 1

      I think the key phrase is "when engaged".

      Drive an auto, then drive a manual and tell me that you can't feel the difference.

      There is a very real difference. Only someone who doesn't drive a manual would try to argue otherwise.

    78. Re:Car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How quickly you change gear makes absolutely no difference to performance. *When* you change gear is crucial, and no automatic gearbox can solve that problem.

      Try a Audi TT with DSG - or a Porsche with it - and you will be amazed how well they manage to fool you the problem has been solved.

    79. Re:Car analogy by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      It is sold as doing 1080p video though, which it doesn't.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    80. Re:Car analogy by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      In Japan it was due to concerns that the police would be unable to keep up with criminals, and over general issues of safety on public roads. Newer models disable the limiter when the GPS notices you are at a private track.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    81. Re:Car analogy by Visserau · · Score: 1

      THIS. So much this.

      I've never found a really tolerable automatic, although Mercadies make the process less painful... That said, it can be a huge pain to manage a manual (especially a sporty one) in peak hour traffic.

      A clutchless car that could be set into auto or manual would be awesome. Not sure if such a thing exists.

    82. Re: Car analogy by cynyr · · Score: 1

      Drive a VW DSG sometime if you like the feel of a manual. I drove my bosses GTI and despite haven drive automatics for the last few years found myself reaching for a clutch and shiftier. On lift off of the throttle the car slows down just like you'd expect in a manual. I had to try very hard to not press the "clutch" as the brake was one of those "automatic double wide" brakes and when you press a brake peddle like you would a clutch it gets fun in a hurry.

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
    83. Re:Car analogy by cynyr · · Score: 1

      I've found i like VWs DSG automatic. I'd even like the paddle shifters if they would just mount them on the column and not on the wheel. It gets hard to grab second when the up paddle is on a different side. Or perhaps they could make them pull in and push out instead of one for up and one for down.

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
    84. Re:Car analogy by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Dual Clutch Transmission in a BMW 135i here. Long time manual driver prior to getting this car, and in fact my last car before it (BMW 545i) I went all the way to North Carolina to buy because it had a stick instead of an auto.

      My car is really a truly clutchless manual that happens to have an automatic mode. When I start my car in the morning and shift it to "drive", the first thing I do is click the shifter into the gate to the left and then click up once. That puts the transmission in a pure manual mode that will hold a gear until you shift it. I could drive to work in first gear if I so desired and the transmission wouldn't upshift. Of course, I wouldn't be doing much good for my gas mileage either, but the point is that I could. There are paddles on the steering wheel, but I tend to use the shifter because it's natural for me to reach down there for gear changes anyway; I flip the shifter away from me to downshift, toward me to upshift. It's incredibly natural.

      As for performance driving, I can anticipate the curves and downshift appropriately every time, far faster than I ever could with a stick and clutch. Sure, it's sequential in the same sense that my motorbike is; I can't go from 6th gear to 3rd, I have to click through all the intervening gears. However, the incredibly fast shifts mean that I can get from 7th (my top gear) all the way to 3rd in about the same amount of time as it would've taken me with a stick. I lose nothing.

      And for those that say that shift times make no difference; I have dragged (on a track, thank you) two identical cars; one with the DCT and the other with a stick. We did two runs in our own cars and two in each others... the result was always that the DCT equipped car was a good 3/10 quicker consistently in the quarter. Part of that is final drive (the DCT has a different final drive that gets better acceleration at the cost of slightly worse gas mileage) but even calculating that in we figured the shift times were gaining 1/10 on the quarter. Not much, but still faster.

      Having said all this, have you driven the most recent 8 speed autos coming out? I have driven a BMW 535i with the 8 speed and was incredibly impressed by that thing. Yes, it's a torque-converter automatic but the technology has come a long way. Modern automatics really don't lose anything to a stick unless you happen to be a professional race driver. Of course, that would have to have been a professional race driver before 1992 because almost all race cars today use sequential manuals or dual clutch transmissoins... the days of rowing your own gears on the racetrack have been over for decades.

    85. Re:Car analogy by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 1

      Use the stick to shift when performance driving. Only use the paddles when you're driving reasonably straight; it's what I do in my DCT-equipped car.

    86. Re:Car analogy by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 1

      If only they could add some way for the operator to manually shift the transmission. It could be a movement of the stick, or maybe some switches behind the steering wheel. We could call them "paddles".

      While I agree with you in theory, the truth is a modern automatic like a dual clutch or even some of the more modern autos are bloody good and can be just as good or better than a human with a clutch. I didn't believe it myself until I got my BMW 135i with a dual-clutch (I purchased it in part because I had knee surgery on my left knee and could no longer operate a clutch until it healed completely). I have now had the car 18 months and honestly although my knee is better and I can drive a clutch again, I find myself wondering if I really need to. My transmission has a fully manual mode that will hold the gear I tell it all day long unless I tell it to change. I can preempt a corner and be in the perfect gear every time when on a technical track, and the shift times mean that as I come out of the corner I am able to keep the power in without letting up even as I upshift.

      Is it perfect? No... no system is... but it's more consistent and faster with those shifts than I ever could be with a clutch. While there are times I miss it, in truth most of the time I really don't. Technology moves on, and the days of the manual are severely numbered by the fact that drivetrains are becoming far more complex. Look at a hybrid; can you imaging managing the power of both drivetrains with the traditional clutch and shifter?

    87. Re:Car analogy by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 1

      But the most common shift on the track is from top gear down to third. In my DCT that's 4 gears (from 7th to third)... that's a shift from 7th to 3rd in 400ms which means I've still gained 100ms on one corner on your theoretical manual driver. On a very technical track that 100ms per corner can equate to several seconds at the checkered flag... I've just completely slaughtered your manual driver assuming all else is equal.

      Of course, that's if everything else is perfect and in the real world the DCT would never shift in exactly 100ms every time... but neither would any but the absolute best manual drivers shift in that perfect 500ms either.

    88. Re:Car analogy by trum4n · · Score: 1

      Ummm, look up how a torque converter works, and maybe you will understand my post. There is no actual connection to the wheels.

    89. Re:Car analogy by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 2

      Yeah, the Dodge Dart has a DCT in the Rallye version. But don't bother; it's attached to the worst engine I have ever had the misfortune to drive behind and the stupidest programming of the DCT I've ever encountered.

      Now, if they put the DCT behind the new 2.4L engine they're planning for later this year, and fire their current DCT programmers we might actually be talking.

    90. Re:Car analogy by mikael · · Score: 1

      I'll put the patent on the knork - knife combined with a spork.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    91. Re:Car analogy by mikael · · Score: 1

      Wow. Somebody should add a tilt switch to the automatic gearbox.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    92. Re:Car analogy by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      The Japanese don't limit the engines output, they limit what they put on advertising material to 206KW. They also install 180kph speed limiters.

    93. Re:Car analogy by dinfinity · · Score: 3, Funny

      The comedian Ed Byrne said it best: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT1TVSTkAXg

    94. Re:Car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You clutch with your left foot whilst your right foot is either on the accelerator or on the brake (or both, if you're doing heel-toe) . If you hit the pedals the way you say, and you're on an uphill slope, you're actually going to end up rolling backwards and hitting the guy behind you :-P .

    95. Re:Car analogy by thedarknite · · Score: 1

      That combination has been in existence for ~70 years, so the patent will have expired long ago

      --
      A game has objectives and is competitive, anything else is just play
    96. Re:Car analogy by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

      And you drive on the track, how often exactly? By maintaining a comfortable, balanced driving style I have - to use your phrase - completely slaughtered your automatic driver on a couple of hundred miles of country roads.

      Furthermore, you still haven't solved the problem of needing to tell the automatic gearbox when to change gear. It can't see the road. It can't respond to corners or hills. You've got to wait until the engine slows right down before the gearbox decides "oh, better cog it down a bit". Why bother with all that complicated extra tacked-on stuff, when you can have a nice simple ordinary gearbox?

    97. Re:Car analogy by thunderclap · · Score: 1

      Or meaning the man of your dreams and meeting his beautiful wife. By the way, none of those things mentioned in that song were ironic. Just mostly suckworthy.

    98. Re:Car analogy by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      You heel-toe going into a corner, not coming out. And the only rational complaint in your post is that autos are not "smooth" when shifting. And most autos allow you to shift gears now, so your complaints about gear selection no longer apply. What you want is an automatic, a CVT automatic.

    99. Re:Car analogy by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Most motorsports ban automatics because they'll out-perform the manual, and if they didn't make it artificially hard, anyone could do it. They aren't "allowed but not used" they are generally "banned". There's a difference. You note that one sport where they are allowed (drag racing), they dominate and are *always* used in purpose-build dragsters. Even amateur racers prefer them because of the repeatability.

    100. Re:Car analogy by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      You don't change gears to remain balanced, you change gears to keep the revs where you are comfortable. If you want power, accelerate. If you want to slow down, hit he brake. No shifting required. If there's lag, then hit the throttle sooner. It's not hard. And you have to do that anyway in a manual with a turbo. I even know a lot of people with cars like the Eagle Talon that prefer the auto. You can left-foot brake in corners, and it forces a downshift and spools the turbo. When you are out of the corner, floor the throttle, and woosh, off you go. That's harder to do in a manual.

    101. Re:Car analogy by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

      Braking and engine braking cause the car to behave in very different ways, particularly on rear wheel drive vehicles. On cars with automatic gearboxes you have to brake quite hard and lose a lot of road speed to get the thing to suddenly wake up and realise it needs to change gear.

      You don't change gear to "keep the revs where you are comfortable", you change gear to match the engine's power and torque output to the requirements of the vehicle dynamics. Whether you like it or not is immaterial - it's what it makes the car do that's important. You really can't do that on cars with automatic gearboxes, at least not nearly as effectively.

    102. Re:Car analogy by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      On cars with automatic gearboxes you have to brake quite hard and lose a lot of road speed to get the thing to suddenly wake up and realise it needs to change gear.

      My car doesn't change gears on braking at all. It changes gears down as speed decreases, but not based on braking at all.

      You don't change gear to "keep the revs where you are comfortable", you change gear to match the engine's power and torque output to the requirements of the vehicle dynamics. Whether you like it or not is immaterial - it's what it makes the car do that's important. You really can't do that on cars with automatic gearboxes, at least not nearly as effectively.

      Yes, you can. Nearly all automatics these days have manual control of some kind. You can pick any gear you want at any time (though it won't always honor your request if it thinks the choice could cause damage, google for all those that threw a rod in a BMW that shfited 5-2 aiming for a 5-4 downshift in a manual M3).

      If you are expereincing the difference in handling because of RWD while braking, then you are driving well beyond the safe limits of the road. If you get to that point you don't have the spare traction to deal with someone stuck with a flat around the corner, or anything else unexpected. So yes, "If you want to drive like an unsafe git, then manuals are your best option" is true, and you are proving it well.

    103. Re:Car analogy by hawk · · Score: 1

      More efficient, perhaps, but outside of racing, you're still a pansie for not depressing the clutch and actually shifting the gears yourself . ..

      hawk

      p.s. Get off my lawn!

    104. Re:Car analogy by garyebickford · · Score: 1

      I think those fast-shifting trannies were developed for racing. They absolutely can shift faster than a NASCAR driver, and since the shift paddles are right behind the steering wheel, the driver doesn't have to move his/her hands. They also manage the engine RPMs better for the shifting, preventing a missed shift or gear grind, which can cost time or break things.

      --
      It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
    105. Re:Car analogy by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 1

      You've obviously never driven a DCT or a modern automatic. They have these things called "buttons", or more often referred to as "paddles". These allow you to command a downshift in much simpler fashion than operating a clutch and a manual. Your manual transmission can't see the road ahead, either and relies upon the driver for the input... that's what my DCT does, as do many automatic transmissions. And no, I don't have to wait for the engine to slow-down... the DCT does a great job of rev-matching on every downshift... better than I do.

      I track my cars 3 or 4 times a year at least... I do that to teach myself skills that come in handy for getting myself out of trouble more often than I care to admit.

      I both with all the "extra tacked-on stuff" because quite frankly it's a lot simpler for me; the driver.

    106. Re:Car analogy by tibit · · Score: 1

      All this crap is only a workaround to an internal combustion engine with its limited powerband. The workaround to that? A bigger engine. Then a slushbox doesn't matter. Problem solved. The whole manual-vs-automatic flamefest only matters if you're after getting the most performance out of a limited-size motor or limited gas tank. Racing comes to mind, mostly, because the gas tank size by itself doesn't seem to matter much. Demonstrably, the U.S. consumer market doesn't give a shit about that. And I agree with that sentiment. It's enough work as it is to work around other drivers. Working around shortcomings of the engine shouldn't be my job.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    107. Re:Car analogy by tibit · · Score: 1

      My wife's Volvo SUV (XC90) can shift at will between any two gears, same as my S80, but not from the factory shifter thingie. A $30 worth of parts (protoboard, buttons, a microcontroller with a CAN perhipheral, etc.) does it, though. I'd think any modern car out there can be commandeered like that. The sequential shifting is just a shortcoming of the user interface, not the hardware I wouldn't think. Heck, your shifter doesn't even have to include the "triptronic" feature -- it's just a UI thing, not a limitation of the transmission, duh. I bet a DCT BMW will take a nice CAN or FlexRay message to go to any gear you desire, probably in 100ms too, unless the transmission is somehow designed so that it can only quickly shift between adjacent gears... The hardware and software to do that is always trivial, it just takes a bit of reverse engineering to figure out what messages to send. There are papers out there where some of the techniques adequate to figure out the messages are detailed. Noting Earth-shattering. Good old fuzzing.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    108. Re:Car analogy by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

      I've never really liked flappy paddle gearboxes, mostly because of the lack of clutch control on hills and when pulling away very gently. Obviously once the car is moving the clutch is no longer relevant, on either a flappy-paddle or a manual, but it does make it easier to creep up to trailer hitches and stuff.

    109. Re:Car analogy by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      I want a CVT manual with one continuous slider including reverse!

    110. Re:Car analogy by Quila · · Score: 1

      If it really can't, then Apple could be sued by customers and fined by the government. I don't think Apple's that stupid.

    111. Re:Car analogy by dubbreak · · Score: 1

      And most autos allow you to shift gears now, so your complaints about gear selection no longer apply.

      Not to mention many now rev match on downshifting. I recently had a rental with a 6 speed classic auto (i.e. non dual clutch) and it did not feel anything like the auto transmission with "manual mode" from 5 years ago. Quick sharp shifts that happened when I signaled (rather than waiting and deciding if that's what it wants to do) and perfect rev matching on downshifts. Yes it did nanny on downshifts (won't let you over-rev) but it was happy to let me hit the (too low) rev limiter on a late upshift. What happened to cars that let you dip into the redline? If the redline on the tach is 7k rpm I expect to be able to rev to at least 7250rpm before hitting a limiter (this particular vehicle had no yellow or orange region before the red on the tach).

      --
      "If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
    112. Re:Car analogy by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Most performance "automatics" these days don't have a torque converter. You are assuming auto= torque converter. That used to be true, but no longer is an absolute. As such, you should be the one looking up modern performance automatics, not the GP looking up torque converter.

    113. Re:Car analogy by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I'd say it was like a phonograph player with a needle and spins while "playing", but really takes a detailed scan of the surface, and transmits that image to a processor that converts that to a music file, then it plays the file in sync with the phonograph player so you don't know you are really listening to an mp3.

    114. Re:Car analogy by trum4n · · Score: 1

      An "automatic transmission" is torque converter based when you are speaking to automotive engineers. You are thinking Automated, which includes CVT and computerized manuals. Very different indeed.

    115. Re:Car analogy by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and 128k DSL is "broadband" and 10 Gbps fibre is not, if you are talking to an electrical engineer. Doesn't make them right when they are talking to "average" people in a public forum.

    116. Re:Car analogy by almitydave · · Score: 1

      Partly true and partly not.

      I can accelerate into a corner, put the clutch in, slow and gear down as I turn and use heel to toe whilst releasing the clutch as I come out of the turn for better acceleration. Admittedly, I do this at roundabouts more often than I should.

      First "heel & toe" refers to the technique of pressing the gas pedal with the same foot as the brake pedal (usually toe on brake, roll heel onto gas), while the clutch is depressed while braking. This is done to match the driveshaft and axle speeds so that the sudden drag of the engine on the tires due to lower RPM doesn't cause them to break traction. This is done entirely in the braking zone, and you should be on the gas before you apex. If the clutch is still in while coming out of the corner (after apex), or worse you're on the brake, you're doing it wrong. I'm not quite sure what you're describing.

      An Automatic gearbox has to wait until I start to accelerate to drop back down a gear. Automatic gearboxes are always reactionary, a good manual driver is proactive. There is no way, any current production auto can pre-empt what a driver is going to do.

      No, but a driver can preempt what a driver is going to do. As far as traditional automatics are concerned, they shift based on gas pedal position (not entirely true but close enough), so if you're on the gas before the apex, you CAN force it to downshift before you need full power. This requires very good knowledge of the behavior of the particular transmission to do well, but it is definitely possible to shift an automatic with your foot, and have it in the right gear before you need it (in situations where power needs are known beforehand, like a track).

      I've done 3 track days in automatics, and could shift with the gas pedal predictably enough every time. One of the automatics had a manual shift mode. In that car (my current DD), I was actually faster in automatic mode, because manual mode lowered the torque converter stall speed (effectively giving you taller gears), and by chance most corner exit speeds were better aligned with the shorter overall gear ratios.

      I've also done 6 actual races in manuals, and it's a lot more fun, but more difficult too. Neither of the cars I've raced had pedals arranged properly for heel & toe, so I can't claim that on my driving resume yet.

      --
      my, your, his/her/its, our, your, their
      I'm, you're, he's/she's/it's, we're, you're, they're
    117. Re:Car analogy by girlinatrainingbra · · Score: 1

      Re: There are modern automatic transmissions that are basically just automated clutch-equipped gearboxes rather than the standard torque-converter-automatic that saps power like crazy.
      :>)
      Zoinks! I just learned something new. I'm more an electronics and software person, not a mechanical engineering gear-head person. I had never even thought about the power-loss through automatic transmissions until a few months ago, and I had never heard of the automated manual transmissions until reading your post. Something cool to look into when I'm thinking of buying a car someday.

    118. Re:Car analogy by girlinatrainingbra · · Score: 1

      Very good points! An automatic transmission cannot read your mind. Having manual control of gear shifting lets you control what you want to do with the power-transmission system, particularly since you can see the road ahead of you and can plan for what you are about to do. You won't manually up-shift as you ease up on the accelerator when you know you'll need to stay in the same gear about 5 seconds later.
      .
      I guess the point is that the automatic transmission tries to figure out what you meant to be doing, whereas with the manual, you use your own brain and control the system for what is going to happen.

    119. Re:Car analogy by girlinatrainingbra · · Score: 1

      Interesting. How did you set up the UI for it? Something like a regular gear-shifter? Have you actually made this, or is this just a conceptual thing? Very cool either way. :>)

    120. Re:Car analogy by tibit · · Score: 1

      I've repurposed the steering wheel cruise control and volume change buttons for it. The Volvos I have came with 9 buttons on the steering wheel. Four of them are volume up/down and cruise control fast/slow. I use those for controlling the up/down shifts.

      I use two CAN interfaces and two serial interfaces, and do two man-in-the-middle "attacks". I broke the LOSPEED CAN bus between the radio and the "other stuff". I also broke a serial bus between the GSM (gear shift module) and the TCM.

      There are two operation modes. In standby, all the messages are passed unchanged and my board behaves transparently - there are relays that physically close the busses around my device and I passively listen to traffic.

      In the active mode, I store-and-forward the messages, filtering out the ones I do not want the TCM or radio to hear. The volume button messages are not passed to the radio. Volume and cruise speed buttons are intercepted to mean shift up/shift down. The standby/active mode switching is done by "flicking" the steering wheel volume control up/down three times. The mode indication is done by a plain old beeper on my board, I didn't have the patience to reverse engineer the chime messages that the audio system accepts.

      I have done some guessing and fuzzing tests to figure out how the serial messages for upshift/downshift and triptronic mode look from a triptronic GSM (which I don't have on my car). On entering the active mode, the TCM is sent a "triptronic mode" message, on exiting the active mode, the TCM is sent an "auto/drive mode" message. The up/down CAN messages are translated to shift up/shift down messages on the GSM serial bus.

      I figure a similar approach would work on any other modern car, with differences being in the kinds of busses you have to tap into. Probably the Germans are more sure of themselves and would put the shifter module (GSM) on a CAN bus. Volvo decided to use a dedicated serial bus for this, probably to make a bit more resilient.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
  2. Security? by durrr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So I guess it may be possible to reprogram the ARM chip to maliciously invade the users computer.
    Might it even be possible to turn the adapter into a minion of evil by just connecting it to your computer assuming you have the right software running?

    So borrowing someones AV adapter can now be a security risk?

    1. Re:Security? by EmagGeek · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Or, the ARM chip is capturing a frame from time to time and sending it to Apple for analysis, so they know what you watch and when you watch it, and can sell that information to marketers.

      You can bet that if there's a cable between two apple products, there is all kinds of information being exchanged that you don't know about - and if one of those devices has a network connection, that information is ending up in Cupertino.

    2. Re:Security? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wouldnt it be easier to do it on the device itself?

    3. Re:Security? by blind+biker · · Score: 1

      Might it even be possible to turn the adapter into a minion of evil by just connecting it to your computer assuming you have the right software running?

      Perhaps, but it is more likely that the device could be programmed via a JTAG port.

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    4. Re:Security? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It does appear, from what the speculation says, that the host device sends the SoC firmware when the adapter is plugged in. Hardly unusual: Propritary firmware blobs have been the curse of linux driver developers for years. RAM is cheaper than custom-masked ROM. If that is the case, then it may be possible to simply send a modified firmware (Unless Apple have done any sort of crypto-signing). The hacked firmware would have no way to communicate back and would be lost upon reset, so you'd need to solder in a tiny battery or ultracap too. Beyond that, though, there is plenty of room in that chip to save a few frames. Hack adaptor, lend to The Boss when he goes into the super-secret HR policy review board meeting, collect it back, extract presentation, get the inside word on who is about to lose their job and who is getting a fat bonus. It's a doable exploit in theory, though the level of difficulty involved - reverse engineering the adapter and the firmware enough to edit an evil version - that anyone capable of doing so probably has no need to. The type of exploit researchers might perfect purely to prove it can be done.

    5. Re:Security? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A while back someone noticed that their battery firmware updates were encrypted but the password was embedded in the updater executable in plaintext. You could replace the battery firmware, and then if you found a hole in the EFI firmware or OS gain control of the computer. I wonder if they have learned from this mistakes.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:Security? by noh8rz10 · · Score: 0

      Or, the ARM chip is capturing a frame from time to time and sending it to Google for analysis, so they know what you watch and when you watch it, and can sell that information to marketers.

      ok fixed it. cmon, remember who the players are here.

    7. Re:Security? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Such speculation also makes it sound like a person doesn't know what they are talking about when it comes to SoC and other programmable chips.

      It is much more likely that the chip stores the firmware in its own flash memory (not a custom-masked ROM... it is not like it is over a decade old). The chip could easily be reprogrammed over the connection, so it would have some future proofing, but it wouldn't be reprogrammed every time the thing is plugged in. You only reprogram it when you need to, which could easily be never depending on how lazy they are about fixing problems with it.

      Also, any hacked version storing information would require some form of nonvolatile information anyways. RAM wouldn't cut it there unless you never unplug it from a device, in which case there are probably easier ways of tracking what the device was used for. And the amount of firmware storage space may be much, much smaller than the RAM.

    8. Re:Security? by sjames · · Score: 1

      No matter what video you try to display, you get Roadrunner and Coyote.

    9. Re:Security? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually, the proprietary OS makers (Microsoft and Apple) capture, transmit and retain a HUGE amount more information about you than search engine companies.

      There's a currently active Burson Marsteller campaign to smear Google (Bing it), which is why you're seeing so many of these near-identical allegations.

    10. Re:Security? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Flash does seem more likely. The main justification given for the firmware-download theory is the apparently very slow initialisation time.

    11. Re:Security? by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      the user's "computer" in this case is a fucking ipad. why would anyone want to invade a stupid ipad?

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    12. Re:Security? by dgood · · Score: 1

      The problem is that HDMI uses a 19-pin connector but Lightning only has 8 pins. So, they transfer the video to the adaptor, do whatever transcoding is necessary to format it properly for HDMI and put the signals on the pins. I don't know how else you're going to be able to go from 8 pins to 19.

    13. Re:Security? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      nah-uh! search engine analytics store more!


      ...you see where this is going no?

    14. Re:Security? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      You could do that all computer-side. The "trick" here is you are sending the signal wirelessly to the other end of the cable. You have a cable in place. Whether you transcode at the near or far end, who cares, but the signal should go over the higher-bandwidth (and interference resistant) cable, not a cabled wireless connection. If you are doing that, you could lose the cable in the middle and have a new solution.

  3. Wireless wire? by SCPRedMage · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Doubtful. More likely that it's streaming encoded digital video via the cable itself, and the components on the connector just decode the stream.

    Perhaps this is a slight step forward, as far as technology is concerned, but it's a big leap back, as far as consumers are concerned...

    --
    My sig can beat up your sig.
    1. Re:Wireless wire? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      encode, not decode. I'd guess it has something to do with HDCP enforcement that they don't have the pins to build in.

    2. Re:Wireless wire? by ghinckley68 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Some one anlized the video its only 1600x900 not 1080P. That will probably come out later for you to buy.

      But yea basically they left the parts out o the newer iCrap and then charge you for more for capabilities the older stuff had.

      --
      Linux modi 2.6.26-2-parisc
    3. Re:Wireless wire? by adolf · · Score: 5, Informative

      But yea basically they left the parts out o the newer iCrap and then charge you for more for capabilities the older stuff had.

      Rather they charge more for less capabilities: The old device supported real, uncompressed video. The new adapter has MPEG artifacts and added latency.

    4. Re:Wireless wire? by SCPRedMage · · Score: 3, Informative

      Decode is the right word; if it were a raw data stream, closer to an actual HDMI signal, there wouldn't be these kinds of issues like noticeable lag and artifacts. My guess is it's a digital video stream, perhaps H.264 or some other codec, that the SoC has to decode before sending out over HDMI (which, yes, would require some encoding, due to HDCP).

      --
      My sig can beat up your sig.
    5. Re:Wireless wire? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 5, Informative

      After they made such a big deal of the new dock connector, turns out is is inferior to their competitors. Samsung's modified micro USB connector does uncompressed full 1080p HDMI. The cables are dirt cheap too.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:Wireless wire? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The new dock connector is superior in exactly two ways:
      1. Thinner.
      2. You can put it in either way up... because the device has additional electronics to detect which way around the cable is and adapt accordingly.

      The second of those is a triviality: It really doesn't matter hugely if you can put the connector in first time without looking. It saves the user only a few seconds at most. The first is the only reason for lightning. Consumer demand and Apple policy are towards thinner and thinner products, with Apple leading the charge: They introduced lightning for the same reason the Macbook Pro lost ethernet. The connector became the limitation on thinnness, so it had to go.

    7. Re:Wireless wire? by BenJury · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't under the thinner part. Micro USB is, what, 2mm high? The lightening connector is .5mm smaller, but what appliances would require such a reduced size? The iPhone 5 is 7mm+ high for example.

      --
      Blatant Advert: Android Apps!
    8. Re:Wireless wire? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Things are supposed to get simpler for things that are already being done, not more complicated.

      The way I see this, they're going to make sure no one can make those things but them.

      Reminds me of a story I read a few months ago about a company whose patents expired, but still holds monopoly over the drug, because it's too complicated to easily reproduce.

    9. Re:Wireless wire? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      3. Pins are dynamically assigned, so future peripherals and devices can keep physical connector and use new protocols and capabilities (real analog, etc).
      4. Beveled edges and blade shape guide connector in; much easier to insert than Micro USB even when you have Micro USB right side up.
      5. Cooler name.

    10. Re:Wireless wire? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shit man leave some of the Kool-Aide for your fellow iFans.

    11. Re:Wireless wire? by adolf · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Perhaps you just need a different TV.

      Remember, HDMI is just a superset of DVI, which works generally works fine for a myriad of desktop computers.

      My own Samsung A550 from a few years back does just fine with sync, and works very well with video games. Even with layers of potential latency bolted on (playing Super Mario Bros. on an emulator on a Wii outputting component video which is then turned back into digital video at the television and then scaled), it behaves just as well as I remember it with an NES hooked to a CRT.

      For that matter, both of the DVI-connected monitors on my desk also show zero noticeable latency.

      As to cables, the cheaper the better, in my experience (at normal lengths): I've had expensive HDMI cables with ferrite beads on them, and had no end of problems with them. I eventually emoved the ferrites (with a sharp knife and a hammer), and they've been working perfectly for years... The cheap freebie cables that come in the box with gear or from bottom of the barrel Ebay sales seem to all work fine.

      I have seen some TVs lately that had real, unforgivable latency problems, and they all happened to have been made by Sharp. These needed audio delays added in the AVR to make a movie play correctly, and were essentially unusable as a computer monitor or for video games.

      Whatever the case, blaming HDMI (which really cursed piece of DRM-encumbered shit) for the wiring or latency issues is a non-starter. You're pointing your finger in the wrong direction.

    12. Re:Wireless wire? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the hell are you using a cable for, this is the 21st century gods dammit!

    13. Re:Wireless wire? by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Informative

      The first is the only reason for lightning. Consumer demand and Apple policy are towards thinner and thinner products, with Apple leading the charge: They introduced lightning for the same reason the Macbook Pro lost ethernet. The connector became the limitation on thinnness, so it had to go.

      If the connector became the limitation then Apple's engineers have failed. There's several phones that are thinner than the iPhone 5 on the market not only currently but also dating back to 2011 (Motorola RAZOR Droid which was a shit phone for other reasons), all of them had microUSB connectors.

      The real reason is that Apple wouldn't be caught dead using an open common connector type that doesn't give them absolute control over aftermarket accessories. This is much like the bullshit of the nano SIM card that Apple claims was too big and thus limiting device size despite many smaller phones using larger SIMs. Again the reason is that Apple insisted on an edge connected SIM card where the rest of the industry had it mounted next to the battery behind the removable cover.

    14. Re:Wireless wire? by mab · · Score: 1

      The Lighting Digital AV adapter does in fact do 1080p for video playback, It DOES NOT do it for screen mirroring

    15. Re:Wireless wire? by damnbunni · · Score: 1

      It depends a lot on the monitor, and even then you won't usually notice unless the latency is really bad, or something forces you to.

      I never noticed any latency using my Dell U2410 monitor to play games on via HDMI.. until I got a WiiU. The WiiU's gamepad has no latency, and the sound coming out of it was just enough out of sync with the Dell U2410's HDMI audio passthrough to drive me totally batshit insane.

      I had to update the 2410's firmware and then switch to a low-latency mode (without color correction) to deal with it.

    16. Re:Wireless wire? by adolf · · Score: 1

      ...which is an interesting story, but does reinforce my main point: HDMI and latency are two different things in common use.

      Glad you got it working acceptably. I had my own latency woes with the original Wii at one point: In addition to all of the bolt-on latency I described earlier, I was using an AVR to scale to 1080i and transmogrify from component to HDMI.

      I don't use the Wii much (does anyone?), and it took me a few months to realize that each of these functions in the AVR was adding substantially to the latency of the entire system when the Wii was in use. Things always felt funny with analog inputs ever since I'd first installed the AVR, but wasn't until I decided to play some Super Mario that I was able to pin down exactly why things weren't quite right.

      Adding a component cable between the TV and the AVR, and disabling its scaler for the Wii's input fixed it fine: It's just an analog pass-through in this mode.

      On computers, I'm sensitive enough to input latency that I can't stand any wireless mouse I've ever used on my desktop. It's good that Dell had at least a partial fix.

    17. Re:Wireless wire? by Some+Bitch · · Score: 1

      It really doesn't matter hugely if you can put the connector in first time without looking. It saves the user only a few seconds at most.

      You can do that with every USB cable too, the USB logo is required to be embossed on the cable and always on the side facing the user. Ports are required to be aligned to accommodate that. Even a blind person can put a USB cable in the right way round every time, sadly most people don't know this.

    18. Re:Wireless wire? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And it won't get thinner unless Apple ditches the camera or make a breakthrough in optics:

      which often leaves the camera module the thickest part of the device. There’s no getting around physics here unfortunately

    19. Re:Wireless wire? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      The dock connector is thicker though. To make a thinner iPhone, Apple had to ditch their dock connector. They needed a replacement, so they only had two options:
      1. Use MicroUSB.
      2. Come up with their own propritary connector.

      They went with #2 for business reasons. Exactly what these reasons are is known only to Apple executives, though my theory is that they wish to maintain a clear seperation of accessories between 'iPhone' and 'everyone else' so they can better established the iPhone as a premium brand and not just yet-another-phone in a field where thousands of models exist.

    20. Re:Wireless wire? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I have seen some TVs lately that had real, unforgivable latency problems"

      LATELY?!?!
      Dude, where have you been for the last 15 years? :)
      If anything then TV manufacturers caught on to the fact that people don't want latency and most tv's sold today have at least one low latency input or a mode that disables alle the processing which causes the delays.
      Then there are a bunch of really old flat tv's that didn't actually have the internal bandwidth to transfer a full hd image to the panel and had to MPEG it.

      But for the most part, things are looking up!

    21. Re:Wireless wire? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3. It's higher power.

      That's the huge win. The older Apple connector took much longer to charge devices and Micro-USB is even worse. Android fans can crow about how little power issues (battery life, charging, etc) matters, but it's the one area where the iPhone is simply better. And the lightning charger allows iPhones to charge much faster than phones that use Micro-USB.

      This will become even more important as the circuitry gets smaller and the battery becomes a larger percentage of the device.

    22. Re:Wireless wire? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      So Apple comes out with a connector that seems to be pretty amazing. They pipe the data to a chip and everything magically works.

      Wow you couldn't have fallen harder for the marketing spiel could you. It doesn't "magically work" at all, it's a convoluted setup that requires a whole SoC in the connector that provides an ultimately inferior result to the previous setup with artifacts, lower resolution and lag.

    23. Re:Wireless wire? by wiredlogic · · Score: 1

      There are no special electronics. There are just duplicate, rotationally symmetric sets of pins on each side of the connector.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    24. Re:Wireless wire? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      You're thinking of the magsafe charger. That uses palindromic pins. Lightning has palindromic power, but not data: http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/09/25/apples_lightning_port_dynamically_assigns_pins_to_allow_for_reversible_use

    25. Re:Wireless wire? by nbahi15 · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry but even the most basic search "HDMI latency" will lead you to a myriad of forums on AV and the problems associated with HDMI latency. The issue with a lot of these technologies is that they are billed as a simple trouble free solutions. However, reality is far from it.

      I can give you a quick example PS3, the game Guitarsmith, and a Samsung 7 series from 2011. Definite audio lag over pure HDMI. This is such a serious problem that the game even displays a series of different lag remedies every time it starts. Next thing you know you are buying an optical audio cable...

    26. Re:Wireless wire? by nbahi15 · · Score: 1

      The 30-pin connector has lag. I can attest to that.

      So if it worked with 1080p would the SoC solution still be convoluted? Will it still be convoluted if the next iOS software update (something that happens in the world of iOS) resolves the issue?

      The alternative to this would be something akin to the MHL standard. However, that standard is new and is not anywhere close to universal. Even the adherents aren't controversy free. Samsung 3 Port controversy The Apple adapter, while clearly not outputting 1080p at this moment, should work on any TV with an HDMI connector without requiring a specs check.

    27. Re:Wireless wire? by adolf · · Score: 1

      I see it all the time at Wal-Mart: A giant wall of HDMI-connected displays, many of which have the audio and video out-of-sync with one-another (but which presumably sync well with themselves, if somewhat latent from the original signal.).

      It sounds (and looks) like an array of slightly different tape delays.

      Maybe it's the distribution system (likely), maybe it's the TV itself (I've at least seen this myself in isolation, if you read what I wrote), but:

      I remain unconvinced that this is a problem related to the signalling format. I write this on a DVI monitor which, AFAICT, is presently doing HDCP and all of the other things that HDMI entails. All that differs is the connector. (I can even route audio to it if I want to.)

      And when I've plugged in a DVI-HDMI cable instead of DVI-DVI, the monitor works just the same.

      As to searching: I can use Google, too. If there is a latency problem with HDMI, then I should be able to Google it up as the same problem with DVI, since they're exactly the same damned thing in this regard. But I don't really find much results for DVI latency, because nobody seems to be talking about that.

      So I, again, blame the display: If there really were issues with DVI latency then hordes of hardc0re-ish gamers, with thousands of dollars wrapped up in ridiculous video hardware alone, would be complaining about it. But they're not.

      I have no particular love for Samsung (my 52" A550 was simply the best product available for me at the time), but if your more-recent 7 is showing latency issues then perhaps it is simply inherently broken in ways similar to the Sharp TVs that I've experienced recently.

      (Just because it sucks, doesn't mean it's not reality.)

    28. Re:Wireless wire? by asdf7890 · · Score: 1

      If the connector became the limitation then Apple's engineers have failed. There's several phones that are thinner than the iPhone 5 on the market not only currently but also dating back to 2011 (Motorola RAZOR Droid which was a shit phone for other reasons), all of them had microUSB connectors.

      Micro USB was not the problem though - it was their existing proprietory dock connector that was too big. They didn't replace mUSB with lightning, they chose lightining over mUSB as the replacement for the old connection method.

      They give size as one of the reasons for the change but it is not the only difference, there are apperently both electrical and physical advnatages over mUSB (note: I've not looked into this so it could be astro-turfed marketting tripe for all I know) so I wouldn't jump to criticising the engineers purely on the size thing.

      Of course the key reason to my cynical mind is simply because, any real advantages aside, it is different. They want to keep a certain degree of market serperation, however artificial. There are iPods and other music players, there are iPhones and other smart-phones, there are iPads and other tablets. The fact that many peripherals are marketted explicitly as iSomethingOrOther compatible is free advertising for their product range and helps cement the view in their target market's mind that their products are different (and right now that works in their favour: many people see the incompatability as Apple trying to do something better, rather than as a deliberate inconvenience intended to lock them in to an extent other manufacturers would not try right now).

    29. Re:Wireless wire? by Whatanut · · Score: 1

      Of the three things I have plugged in via USB right now, two of them have the USB logo facing away from me. So, it's not surprising that most people don't know this...

      --

      yvan eht nioj
    30. Re:Wireless wire? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      The 30-pin connector has lag. I can attest to that.

      Nowhere near as much though.

      So if it worked with 1080p would the SoC solution still be convoluted? Will it still be convoluted if the next iOS software update (something that happens in the world of iOS) resolves the issue?

      Yes, of course it will be. If it matches the capability of the old system but requires a whole ARM SoC in the adapter to encode the video stream then yes it absolutely is a convoluted system for achieving that.

      The alternative to this would be something akin to the MHL standard. However, that standard is new and is not anywhere close to universal. Even the adherents aren't controversy free.

      The answer isn't to then create yet another solution, it's to work with the standards body, but of course that wouldn't result in any vendor lockin that way.

    31. Re:Wireless wire? by nbahi15 · · Score: 1

      Nowhere near as much? Quantify, please.

      On the contrary it isn't convoluted, it removes the complexity of the specific standard outside of the phone and essentially makes Lightning a future proof technology.

      As posted in the comments of the blog by an AC:

      Airplay is not involved in the operation of this adapter.

      It is true that the kernel the adapter SoC boots is based off of XNU, but that’s where the similarities between iOS and the adapter firmware end. The firmware environment doesn’t even run launchd. There’s no shell in the image, there’s no utilities (analogous to what we used to call the “BSD Subsystem” in Mac OS X). It boots straight into a daemon designed to accept incoming data from the host device, decode that data stream, and output it through the A/V connectors. There’s a set of kernel modules that handle the low level data transfer and HDMI output, but that’s about it. I wish I could offer more details then this but I’m posting as AC for a damned good reason.

      The reason why this adapter exists is because Lightning is simply not capable of streaming a “raw” HDMI signal across the cable. Lightning is a serial bus. There is no clever wire multiplexing involved. Contrary to the opinions presented in this thread, we didn’t do this to screw the customer. We did this to specifically shift the complexity of the “adapter” bit into the adapter itself, leaving the host hardware free of any concerns in regards to what was hanging off the other end of the Lightning cable. If you wanted to produce a Lightning adapter that offered something like a GPIB port (don’t laugh, I know some guys doing exactly this) on the other end, then the only support you need to implement on the iDevice is in software- not hardware. The GPIB adapter contains all the relevant Lightning -> GPIB circuitry.

      It’s vastly the same thing with the HDMI adapter. Lightning doesn’t have anything to do with HDMI at all. Again, it’s just a high speed serial interface. Airplay uses a bunch of hardware h264 encoding technology that we’ve already got access to, so what happens here is that we use the same hardware to encode an output stream on the fly and fire it down the Lightning cable straight into the ARM SoC the guys at Panic discovered. Airplay itself (the network protocol) is NOT involved in this process. The encoded data is transferred as packetized data across the Lightning bus, where it is decoded by the ARM SoC and pushed out over HDMI.

      This system essentially allows us to output to any device on the planet, irregardless of the endpoint bus (HDMI, DisplayPort, and any future inventions) by simply producing the relevant adapter that plugs into the Lightning port. Since the iOS device doesn’t care about the hardware hanging off the other end, you don’t need a new iPad or iPhone when a new A/V connector hits the market.

      Certain people are aware that the quality could be better and others are working on it. For the time being, the quality was deemed to be suitably acceptable. Given the dynamic nature of the system (and the fact that the firmware is stored in RAM rather then ROM), updates **will** be made available as a part of future iOS updates. When this will happen I can’t say for anonymous reasons, but these concerns haven’t gone unnoticed.

      MHL is an industry standard. And that is what the comment was referring to when mention a 'clever wire multiplexing.' The primary problem with it is that it isn't anywhere near universal and not even a standard in the sense there is agreement in implementation. The approach taken by Apple means they can support any standard that comes out in the future with a dongle and software update. This of course being very different than the replace your phone approach of Android.

    32. Re:Wireless wire? by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      It really doesn't matter hugely if you can put the connector in first time without looking. It saves the user only a few seconds at most.

      You can do that with every USB cable too, the USB logo is required to be embossed on the cable and always on the side facing the user. Ports are required to be aligned to accommodate that. Even a blind person can put a USB cable in the right way round every time, sadly most people don't know this.

      Even if companies actually kept to that standard (which they don't) - which way is "up" in a vertical USB port?

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    33. Re:Wireless wire? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Nowhere near as much? Quantify, please.

      I haven't measured it, it's obvious just by using it, but that comment makes it clear you haven't used it so don't know what you're talking about anyway.

      On the contrary it isn't convoluted, it removes the complexity of the specific standard outside of the phone and essentially makes Lightning a future proof technology.

      It's an entire SoC in an adapter as opposed to doing it the conversion on the device like the industry has always done, it absolutely is a convoluted solution, unless of course you don't understand the meaning of the term 'convoluted'.

      MHL is an industry standard. And that is what the comment was referring to when mention a 'clever wire multiplexing.' The primary problem with it is that it isn't anywhere near universal and not even a standard in the sense there is agreement in implementation.

      And deviating and doing something completely different is not the answer, should they do this with all standards that don't have a full reference implementation? Would that be acceptable? No. The reality is that they want vendor lock-in on their hardware - because that's where they make their money - and they don't get that by supporting an industry standard.

      The approach taken by Apple means they can support any standard that comes out in the future with a dongle and software update. This of course being very different than the replace your phone approach of Android.

      Once again you're swallowing of whatever Apple gives you without thought or question which leads you to that conclusion, but the reality is that any Android phone could do the same thing through the USB interface and an SoC adapter like Apple has done. The fact that you're sold on software updates to your adapter being a good thing is proof that you're not even thinking.

    34. Re:Wireless wire? by Wovel · · Score: 1

      Pretty sure doing the same thing in one place instead of another place has noting at all to do with the definition of convoluted. They are not taking extra steps or doing anything inefficiently. I would suggest having hardware and software in the device to support 6 different video output formats would be convoluted. Having people simply select the proper dongle that handles the conversion internally is elegant.

      You are attacking others for swallowing Apple's marketing spiel. You are rejecting a solution simply because it came from Apple.

    35. Re:Wireless wire? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Pretty sure doing the same thing in one place instead of another place has noting at all to do with the definition of convoluted.

      If you were doing it on the device you wouldn't need another whole ARM SoC in the adapter, so yes actually it is a convoluted solution.

      They are not taking extra steps or doing anything inefficiently.

      They have an entire extra ARM SoC! Did you not read the article?!

      I would suggest having hardware and software in the device to support 6 different video output formats would be convoluted. Having people simply select the proper dongle that handles the conversion internally is elegant.

      No, having an ARM SoC for every format is not elegant at all.

      You are attacking others for swallowing Apple's marketing spiel. You are rejecting a solution simply because it came from Apple.

      Wrong, in fact that should be obvious from the outset given that I mentioned the performance of this adapter is significantly worse means it's a fairly safe bet that I do in fact have current and previous versions of the hardware, which i do. I'm rejecting the solution because it provides a poor result - the implementation is overly complex but that's just a sidebar to the real issue which is that this product is inferior to the previous solution, which was also an Apple solution that I have no problem with at all.

  4. Sad... by CaseyJParker · · Score: 1

    That seems a bit of a sad method ... selling it as a cable, anyway. It's deceptive.

    1. Re:Sad... by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      It's an adapter/dongle, not a cable. It's the same shape adapter/dongle as VGA, and other adapters/dongles.
      The cable plugs into it, which is supplied separately.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
  5. Good engineering? by SpeZek · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Remember when Apple was known (at least by the general public) as being the company with simple, elegant engineering?

    How the mighty have fallen. Really, needing a computerized cable is just silly.

    1. Re:Good engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Looks like Apple is going downhill fast. Sucks for me because I like their products.

    2. Re:Good engineering? by maccodemonkey · · Score: 3, Informative

      Remember when Apple was known (at least by the general public) as being the company with simple, elegant engineering?

      How the mighty have fallen. Really, needing a computerized cable is just silly.

      The problem is likely that Lightening likely doesn't have enough pins to just pass through HDMI like the old connector.

      Silly? Maybe, but all of Apple's competitors are doing something similar because micro USB also lacks sufficient pins to pass through HDMI. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_High-Definition_Link) Except they're shoveling half the chips into the device, which increases costs on that side.

    3. Re:Good engineering? by SpeZek · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Thing is, MHL sends uncompressed 1080p over a cheap, standardized cable. Apple's standard, evidently, does not. And like you said, it's worse than the old docking cable in this regard. Regression is extra silly.

    4. Re:Good engineering? by maccodemonkey · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Thing is, MHL sends uncompressed 1080p over a cheap, standardized cable. Apple's standard, evidently, does not. And like you said, it's worse than the old docking cable in this regard. Regression is extra silly.

      Looking at most MHL cable prices from vendors, they're cheaper than Apple's adaptor, but not cheap.

      And as I mentioned, MHL drives up device prices because it requires additional circuitry in the device. Standardized cable you say? Try plugging an MHL cable into a Nexus 7. Won't work? That's because the chips required for MHL were too expensive and they were left off the Nexus 7.

      Shifting half the expense to the device and half the expense to the cable isn't cheaper, it's just moving costs.

    5. Re:Good engineering? by ninetyninebottles · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Really, needing a computerized cable is just silly.

      Actually, it's a step forward and it's not the first technology to do this. The basic idea is, make the port a smart interconnect and let a smarter cable be more adaptive. That way a 4 meter cable can be tuned differently than a 2 meter cable and you can use the same port for a cheap copper cable or a long but expensive fiber cable. Regardless of how relatively expensive the cables are, replacing the computer is harder and adding new ports to mobile devices, even most laptops, simply doesn't happen. This makes a nice, future-proofed port for your laptop, phone, peripheral, etc. that will have real longevity.

    6. Re:Good engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Remember when Apple was known (at least by the general public) as being the company with simple, elegant engineering?

      How the mighty have fallen. Really, needing a computerized cable is just silly.

      The problem is likely that Lightening likely doesn't have enough pins to just pass through HDMI like the old connector.

      Since it is Apple who engineered the Lightning specification, the problem is that Apple did not do "simple, elegant engineering." Contrast that with FireWire which provided: isochronous transfers, device-to-device transfers without host involvement, faster sustained transfer rates and a sturdier connector than USB. That was when they did elegant engineering.

    7. Re:Good engineering? by drinkypoo · · Score: 0

      Remember when Apple was known (at least by the general public) as being the company with simple, elegant engineering?

      Yes, it ended when the Macintosh came out. Then they were only known for simple UIs, and elegant engineering, which lasted until the performa came out and they started building crap. Well, having it built. Now they are known for having the shiniest shinies.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:Good engineering? by crutchy · · Score: 1, Informative

      their god is dead

    9. Re:Good engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really, needing a computerized cable is just silly.

      Actually, it's a step forward and it's not the first technology to do this. The basic idea is, make the port a smart interconnect and let a smarter cable be more adaptive. That way a 4 meter cable can be tuned differently than a 2 meter cable and you can use the same port for a cheap copper cable or a long but expensive fiber cable. Regardless of how relatively expensive the cables are, replacing the computer is harder and adding new ports to mobile devices, even most laptops, simply doesn't happen. This makes a nice, future-proofed port for your laptop, phone, peripheral, etc. that will have real longevity.

      Real longevity on an Apple product.

    10. Re:Good engineering? by kat_skan · · Score: 2

      Shifting half the expense to the device and half the expense to the cable isn't cheaper, it's just moving costs.

      That's only true if there's a 1:1 relationship between tablets and cables.

    11. Re:Good engineering? by interval1066 · · Score: 2

      The "Lightning" standard is a sham, I's always tried to avoid that spec where possible as a consumer. Apple wanted a smaller connector even though they supported the IEC's call for a micro USB charging standard. But as always they love locking their users into Apple's standard. The really interesting thing in all this is even after Apple's loyal fans all lost their older 30 pin accessories with Lightning Apple will probably obsolete it yet again for a new connector standard, even as USB 3.0 is well on everyone else's option array.

      --
      Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
    12. Re:Good engineering? by interval1066 · · Score: 1

      Um... when the Mac came out Apple was the only maker known for UI's... at least at the consumer level.

      --
      Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
    13. Re:Good engineering? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      10 seconds searching Amazon turned up an MHL cable for £3.50, extremely cheap. The Apple version is £37.

      Standardized cable you say? Try plugging an MHL cable into a Nexus 7. Won't work? That's because the chips required for MHL were too expensive and they were left off the Nexus 7.

      I'm not sure how that makes it non standard. Are you saying for something to be standardized every device must support it? That's crazy talk.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    14. Re:Good engineering? by green1 · · Score: 1

      So that's why all the android devices with MHL outputs are so much more expensive than the iPhone? oh wait... they aren't.
      I don't care where they put the chips, the end result is cheaper for the end user, and works more smoothly.

      Also I can have a cable at every TV in my house, one on my desk at work, and one in my bag, and I didn't have to pay a fortune for each one.

    15. Re:Good engineering? by maccodemonkey · · Score: 1

      Shifting half the expense to the device and half the expense to the cable isn't cheaper, it's just moving costs.

      That's only true if there's a 1:1 relationship between tablets and cables.

      True, but if there is a 1:0 relationship between tablets and cables, integrating into the cable wins.

    16. Re:Good engineering? by maccodemonkey · · Score: 0

      So that's why all the android devices with MHL outputs are so much more expensive than the iPhone? oh wait... they aren't.

      They aren't? I just cited one device the dropped MHL to stay cost competitive.

      It's true that Apple is probably sucking some of that up into their margin, but when you have a popular device like the Nexus 7 dropping MHL because it's too expensive, you can't say it's not a problem.

      If you look at the full list of Android devices with MHL it's actually not common for Android devices to have it.
      http://meetmhl.com/DoIHaveMhl.aspx

      I don't even see the Nexus 4 on there, do you? All the Android devices? Hardly.

    17. Re:Good engineering? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Um... when the Mac came out Apple was the only maker known for UI's... at least at the consumer level.

      Um... the quote was "simple, elegant engineering", not "simple, elegant user interfaces". The fact is that there were simpler computers available on which people were getting work done which cost less than the Mac. Apple actually complicated the situation. I'm not complaining, I call it progress. What they were doing back then was reasonably called innovation. I was a mac guy up through the Quadras and System 7.1, but I bailed out in the PowerPC era. My reacquaintance with it got up to about 10.5, and what I saw did not impress me. But if playing with beachballs is your idea of fulfilling computing, more power to you.

      You need to understand that I've been around and owned a whole bunch of different hardware, from Sun, SGI, Apollo, IBM, DEC, and yes, Macintosh. And I've used most of them as my primary desktop system, so I really got a good feel for the systems. They weren't just something I had serving static pages in the corner for vanity. And the simple truth is that Apple build quality was tops in the personal computing industry between about the Macintosh Plus and the Macintosh IIci, and it went downhill thereafter but again, very sharply towards the end of the Performa line. Before that, they had good components put together well and assembled by people who cared.

      The difference is obvious today. I've got an SE with a Radius accelerator card in it (back when the related peripherals were made better, too, because nobody wanted to look like a big asshole by screwing up your expensive Macintosh) that I have literally used as a doorstop on numerous occasions. Every so often I boot it to prove that it will still boot, and of course it still boots. I suspect it would beat my 512MB RAM Android phone or my 2GB RAM Vista Netbook (heh heh) to usability and launching an application, e.g. Word 5.1. I will bet five dollars that I can club any modern Apple product to death with it and still do that.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    18. Re:Good engineering? by pepty · · Score: 0

      Real longevity on an Apple product.

      The macbook I'm typing this on is from mid 2006. Seems long enough.

    19. Re:Good engineering? by obarthelemy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're being extremelly disingenuous:

      1- MHL is cheap, there are plenty of $2 MHL cables. If you like paying for brands and stickers, that's your choice... they have nice ones with golden connectors and one-way flux optmizations, I'm told.

      1b- MHL is cheap, the cost to implement it is nowhere near whatever Apple are doing with their fake video cable.

      2- MHL is a standard. The fact that some chose not to have the feature does not change that. A bit like.. you know... you're PC not being an FM radio does not make FM radios un-standard...

      3- are you trying to imply that MHL is as expensive as having a failed proprietary interface + **active** components to fake a high-def video link, but that just the cost are split differently ? I can assure you that Apple's "solution" is several times more expensive both to implement in the device, and for the cable. And wayyyyy worse in terms of quality.

      --
      The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
    20. Re:Good engineering? by obarthelemy · · Score: 2

      That's true, as long as the connector and cable support the basic signaling bandwidth required for all it is sold for. If Apple are having the compress the high-rez signal to get it out or over the cable, then it's a step backward.

      --
      The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
    21. Re:Good engineering? by maccodemonkey · · Score: 0

      You're being extremelly disingenuous:

      1- MHL is cheap, there are plenty of $2 MHL cables. If you like paying for brands and stickers, that's your choice... they have nice ones with golden connectors and one-way flux optmizations, I'm told.

      1b- MHL is cheap, the cost to implement it is nowhere near whatever Apple are doing with their fake video cable.

      True, but I can't find anything under $10 that doesn't have bad reviews on Amazon, and that's not including the cost of the MHL encoder that get's eaten by the device price.

      2- MHL is a standard. The fact that some chose not to have the feature does not change that. A bit like.. you know... you're PC not being an FM radio does not make FM radios un-standard...

      And H.264 streaming is a standard, which is probably why Apple opted to use it. They already have a H.264 encoder on the device, why would they throw an MHL encoder on there too?

      3- are you trying to imply that MHL is as expensive as having a failed proprietary interface + **active** components to fake a high-def video link, but that just the cost are split differently ? I can assure you that Apple's "solution" is several times more expensive both to implement in the device, and for the cable. And wayyyyy worse in terms of quality.

      Well first, MHL is ALSO active. Unless I missed something and micro USB suddenly spawned a few more pins, it doesn't have enough pins to passively pass through HDMI. The only passive cables are ones for if your TV has an MHL decoder (which means they aren't really HDMI adaptors as much as MHL over HDMI adaptors.)

      I'm also not sure it's more expensive. If you've already got an H.264 encoder, all you have to do is stick a decoder at the other end. MHL requires the cost of both an additional encoder (because once again, it's active, as the MHL protocol implementation guide seems to nicely hint at), and a decoder.

      If MHL was cheaper, then why wouldn't Apple have just gone with MHL?

    22. Re:Good engineering? by ninetyninebottles · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If Apple are having the compress the high-rez signal to get it out or over the cable, then it's a step backward.

      Agreed. I did not mean to imply this was a good technology (either the port or the adaptor), just that conceptually putting a chip in the cable seems like an excellent idea.

    23. Re:Good engineering? by green1 · · Score: 1

      You completely ignored the fact that all the Android phones with MHL connectors aren't more expensive than the iphone.

      Also some Andoid devices don't have MHL because they have HDMI ports (for example the Acer Iconia tablet, and the Motorola Milestone 3 among several others)

      Some devices have decided video output isn't important at all. but I can't think of any that have video output at a steeper price than the iPhone which you state is "saving money" by not including a feature many cheaper devices include.

    24. Re:Good engineering? by recoiledsnake · · Score: 1

      The Nexus 4 is $299 and the iPhone is $649 and you're seriously making such a comparison? That's more than double!
      Same with Nexus 7 vs. iPad Mini.

      --
      This space for rent.
    25. Re:Good engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're just speculating about the reason the Nexus 7 doesn't support MHL. It might purely be that Google didn't want the device to have video out, perhaps to appease the makers of other Android devices. If MHL would add significant extra cost to a device, then They could have put a micro HDMI port in instead, as surely the Tegra 3 has support for HDMI output built-in, then it is just the extra cost of that micro HDMI socket.

    26. Re:Good engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If MHL was cheaper, then why wouldn't Apple have just gone with MHL?

      Because they are Apple. They like proprietary interfaces and lock-in.

    27. Re:Good engineering? by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 1

      Its really silly considering it was a brand new format without the old issues of legacy more standard connectors. They could have done anything they wanted, but no now you have to use crazy hacks to output video simply because it wasn't in the original spec and their customers apparently want to output video.

    28. Re:Good engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cmon nerds, total quote fail. If you can't use the Quote Parent button properly, learn to type a quote tag.

    29. Re:Good engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Err, never? Simple, elegant design maybe, but engineering?

    30. Re:Good engineering? by bored · · Score: 1

      And the simple truth is that Apple build quality was tops in the personal computing industry between about the Macintosh Plus and the Macintosh IIci, and it went downhill thereafter but again, very sharply towards the end of the Performa line.

      Well, I partially agree, having had a lot of experience with an SE30, I can tell you, much like some of apples recently design decisions, the SE30 was a pain to work on (apple cracker and all that) and wasn't particularly reliable. The sony (IIRC) hard drives they shipped in the things were total garbage and tended to die every 6 months. My quadro is another case of apple being different, but not in a better way. But, my profile harddrive (circa 1983) was recently booted on my IIGS...

      More recently I picked up a quad g5 mac. I remember everyone talking about how great the design was. But it took about 5 minutes before I decided the case is pretty much garbage. Its larger than pretty much any PC I have, and yet it only has space for two harddrives, the water cooling is abysmal (and is well known for leaking). The dumb thing about the harddrives is that they are cabled and the cables are two short to easily remove the SATA harddrives. With such a proprietary case layout I don't understand why they didn't just put a backplane in the case and plug the harddrives into that.

      I also had to take it apart because one of the CPU's water blocks were clogged. That was such an insane nightmare I almost parted the machine out on ebay. In the end I ended up getting it working, but I had to rework the cooling system because there isn't a way to bleed 100% of the air. I'm convinced apple assembled the cooling loop in a submerged tank. More annoying than anything is that apple changed a bunch of things mid production. I need a new front facing fan set for the CPU, but there are literally 4 or 5 different pin-out connector locations apple used for the stupid fan assembly and I can't find one for my machine.

    31. Re:Good engineering? by mab · · Score: 1

      The Lighting Digital AV adapter does in fact do 1080p for video playback It DOES NOT do it for screen mirroring

    32. Re:Good engineering? by NicBenjamin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Err, never? Simple, elegant design maybe, but engineering?

      Apple-style design requires a LOT of engineering.

      The first Macintosh, for example, has a fully modern GUI in 128kb of RAM. That's kb. Very few engineers today could get anything useful to run in an eighth of a meg, and even fewer could include an entire OS, a GUI, AND still have room for an application. They made some pretty major compromises to get it done, but they did it.

      More recently physical design has been more important for them. But that takes engineering, too. The Macbook Air doesn't look like it's been heavily engineered, but do you seriously think that a bunch of Art Majors figured out how to mass-produce a fully functional laptop that fits in a damn envelope with no engineering help?

      I'm not saying Apple should be known as an engineering company. It's not a company that lives and dies by technical specs. But Apple's designs just don't work without some damn good engineers. Their work is very hard to see, largely because Apple wants their products to look seamless, but that doesn't mean their work never happened.

    33. Re:Good engineering? by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      If MHL was cheaper, then why wouldn't Apple have just gone with MHL?

      ...

      Seriously? The answer is not only obvious, it's been pointed out a few times in this thread already. If Apple went with MHL, they would save a few cents (amortized development costs, certainly) on each iPhone, but they'd lose several dollars on every customer who just bought a cable off Monoprice or Amazon or wherever.

      Of course, it would be good for the customer; they'd have more options, and could stream video for less money than Apple's ludicrous proprietary connector costs, but poor nearly-broke Apple's bottom line would suffer so, so horribly...

      Besides, this way they can call it "innovation"! Just because the new way is stupid and overpriced doesn't mean it isn't new!

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    34. Re:Good engineering? by SternisheFan · · Score: 1

      Looks like Apple is going downhill fast. Sucks for me because I like their products.

      Well in that case I hope you aren't camping out in front of the apple store, hoping to be the first to get your iWatch. I read it won't be available for another three years.

    35. Re:Good engineering? by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      Maybe that's why they haven't announced an iWatch. I've heard Linus rewriting the kernel into VB is a bit long in the tooth too.

    36. Re:Good engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since it is Apple who engineered the Lightning specification, [...]

      From Wikipedia:

      Intel introduced Light Peak at the 2009 Intel Developer Forum

      and

      Thunderbolt was developed by Intel with technical collaboration from Apple.

    37. Re:Good engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lightning != Thunderbolt
      Lightning is the replacement for the 30-pin dock connector on iDevices.
      Thunderbolt is external PCIe/DisplayPort on Macs.

    38. Re:Good engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i would like to subscribe to your newsletter

    39. Re:Good engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reality is, that they never were. It's just that you were more gullible to the Jobs reality distortion bubble when he was still alive.

      I actually compared th equality of Apple devices compared to others back to those times where Jobs wasn't in the company. and they always posed as high-quality, but were pretty crap when you looked at the gritty details. Especially on the inside.

      Jobs' always was about being a flashy bling e-penis/e-tits. Dreams and delusions. The iPod always was a pretty mediocre MP3 player with flashy looks and a insane price. And the iPhone, for example, started out utterly inferior to any Nokia smartphone, then the morons bought it anyway, Nokia struggled financially because of those morons, but Samsung and Google quickly picked up the baton and now the iPhone is utterly inferior again. So fact is: The only time it was in any way dominating, is when there simply wasn't anything else out there because of the rush of a horde of delusional morons falling for the shiny glass beads.

    40. Re:Good engineering? by stenvar · · Score: 1

      It's merely your assumption that Nexus 7 dropped MHL because of cost. More likely, it was simply because Google wanted the Nexus 7 to be perceived as a low-end device and give its partners the ability to differentiate themselves.

      The Nexus 4 uses SlimPort, which is essentially DisplayPort over micro-USB (and arguably superior to MHL). It's another obvious standard Apple could have adopted.

    41. Re:Good engineering? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Not really, most modern GPUs can do HDMI encoding so there is no additional cost beyond perhaps an MHL capable USB controller, if you are not using a real HDMI port. HDMI was always supposed to be cheap to implement, otherwise it would never have taken off.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    42. Re:Good engineering? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The sony (IIRC) hard drives they shipped in the things were total garbage and tended to die every 6 months.

      I see your fup that noted they were Quantum. In fact, ALL Apples used Quantum drives back then. They used a Sony floppy drive, which was not in the original design but which they moved to because the original floppy sucked. It was a very expensive drive, at the time. You can probably buy a terabyte HDD retail (OEM anyway) today for what Apple paid for that FDD at the time. Single supplier fail.

      I'm convinced apple assembled the cooling loop in a submerged tank.

      Can it be assembled and then installed? Many clutch hydraulic setups are assembled and bled on the bench, then installed. They don't even have bleeders. But it doesn't take long to take the entire assembly out of the vehicle for service, and then you're not trying to do something that's a total PITA while crawling around underneath a vehicle.

      I need a new front facing fan set for the CPU, but there are literally 4 or 5 different pin-out connector locations apple used for the stupid fan assembly and I can't find one for my machine.

      I needed a new fan for my video card. I finally found one with the right connector and the cable was too short. Solder, solder. Sounds like it's time for you to buy the wrong fan and hack it into the right one.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    43. Re:Good engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lightning is already underwhelming. It will be superceded in no time when it comes to electrical specs.
      So i don't realy see a near future where you can use new peripherals with your old iDevice or the other way around.
      While the port is pretty future proof, your devices (and their capability of signaling) arent and once the future comes you will be able to keep your cable but will have to buy a new iDevice and peripherals.
      Good luck!

    44. Re:Good engineering? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      True, but if there is a 1:0 relationship between tablets and cables, integrating into the cable wins.

      In theory, but when it results in an inferior result then it doesn't win. You get a better result with the old dock connector or with MHL than you do with Lightning.

    45. Re:Good engineering? by interval1066 · · Score: 1

      You need to understand that I've been around and owned a whole bunch of different hardware, from Sun, SGI, Apollo, IBM, DEC, and yes, Macintosh.

      Lol... I need to understand that, huh? You're hardly in an exlusive club, pal. If we're going to start measuring hardware penii I'm sure I could match you connector for connector...

      --
      Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
    46. Re:Good engineering? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Lol... I need to understand that, huh? You're hardly in an exlusive club, pal. If we're going to start measuring hardware penii I'm sure I could match you connector for connector...

      It's not about having the biggest electronic wang.* It's about knowing what I'm talking about, because I've been around the block a few times. There's lots of people who have owned more different kinds of computers than I have, many many people with more IT experience, blah blah blah.

      I know whether various Macintosh computers were well-built because not only have I been inside of them, but I have a whole lot of basis for comparison from the other computers I've been inside of, not because I know more than any living human.

      * This is not a picture of my wang.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    47. Re:Good engineering? by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      10 seconds searching Amazon turned up an MHL cable for £3.50, extremely cheap.

      So how much is the power supply it needs? Yeah, a cable that needs a power supply to work. Not to mention the fact that it can cut out phone and wireless signal.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  6. Disappointing for a new connector by romiz · · Score: 3, Informative

    Was the change really worth it?

    With its limited pin count, it's not a surprise that the Lightning connector does not have the bandwidth to transfer uncompressed video. But it's disappointing for it to be so bad at compression, with the MPEG artifacts shown in the article, plus latency issues with encoding/decoding. On that point, the old connector was better, and micro-USB3 would have had enough bandwidth to avoid the issue completely.

    1. Re:Disappointing for a new connector by firex726 · · Score: 1

      Yea... only thing in favor of Lightning seems to be the fact you can insert it either up or down.

    2. Re:Disappointing for a new connector by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From what I can tell its not a bandwidth issue but a conversion from a lightning source to hdmi they are not directly compatible like dvi.

    3. Re:Disappointing for a new connector by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Samsung's modified micro USB connector does fully 1080p HDMI, as well as a variety of other stuff. Cables are dirt cheap andy for sync/charging any standard micro USB cable works.

      This would appear to be a fairly epic failure for Apple because they are now stuck with either artefacts or changing to yet another new connector for all future products.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:Disappointing for a new connector by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Micro USB3 is a rather silly standard, the plug is as wide as regular USB. It will be fun when the manufacturers start making proprietary versions to save space.

      http://semiaccurate.com/static/uploads/2010/01_january/USB3_Micro_WM.JPG

      Of course, that doesn't excuse all the foibles with lightning.

    5. Re:Disappointing for a new connector by fermion · · Score: 2

      I really like this new connector. It seems more rugged and easier to get in. I even bought a knock off connector for $10 and it worked as well. This was not the case for the dock connector.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    6. Re:Disappointing for a new connector by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      So you reckon Samsung (or anyone) gets full 1080p HDMI, requiring bandwidth of just under 4Gbps via a cable that plugs into a micro USB connector?

      You fail at reading comprehension. The belief is that Samsung is getting 1080p out of a cable that plugs into a connector which resembles a micro USB connector.

      Of course, that could be bullshit too, just saying

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    7. Re:Disappointing for a new connector by Troed · · Score: 2

      The MHL standard supports up to 1080p/60 high-definition (HD) video

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_High-Definition_Link

      Demo video of an Xperia T connecting at 1080p24: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDJvgvbaR-w

    8. Re:Disappointing for a new connector by crutchy · · Score: 1

      they need to build a vibrator into the adaptor... then they'll sell more of them

    9. Re:Disappointing for a new connector by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 2

      With its limited pin count, it's not a surprise that the Lightning connector does not have the bandwidth to transfer uncompressed video.

      I totally disagree. Coax and Ethernet get you plenty of bandwidth on fewer pins. When Apple announced this thing, I was delighted that they must have some kind of brilliant plan for using these very few pins in a flexible, high quality, eventually low-cost manner. If their plan for flexibility was just "send a system image over USB, then connect via USB to that thing once it boots" then I am surprised and disappointed.

      Costs may come down as we approach computing ubiquity, but this puts a ceiling on quality and that seems like a poor plan. We might want our iPads to drive 4K displays. Probably not next year, but in 8 years, sure.

      I'm sure there are real, physical limitations that I don't understand that make this required, but I'm still disappointed.

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    10. Re:Disappointing for a new connector by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This would appear to be an epically profitable venture for Apple because they are now stuck with either artefacts or changing to yet another new connector for all future products.

      That's what you meant to write, correct?

    11. Re:Disappointing for a new connector by crutchy · · Score: 1

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_High-Definition_Link

      micro usb only has 5 pins, but only a few pins are used for audio/video/sync in a 19-pin hdmi connector

      given that samsung has a long history in this field, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they are driving this kind of technology

      companies like apple are only able to buy it

    12. Re:Disappointing for a new connector by green1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't think you grasp the actual advantage to lightning. It has one HUGE advantage that no other cable would provide. It forces vendor lock-in while at the same time instanly obsoleting all previous Apple cables. It's a marketing dream! (nightmare for users, but since when has Apple ever cared about them?)

    13. Re:Disappointing for a new connector by sirsnork · · Score: 1

      Seriously... you thought an Apple connector would ever be low cost... wow... just wow

      --

      Normal people worry me!
    14. Re:Disappointing for a new connector by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      How much did you spend on connectors? Probably $50-$150. Apple is losing money on this because they're pissing customers off, and they don't make much on these damn connectors. They may screw you again in the future, but they'll find some other way to do it. Scratch that, they will find a way. They're for-profit. It's their job.

      Heck let's compare them to other companies. How much does an Android user with a Gingerbread phone have to pay to get Jellybean? Can't be done. Has to buy a new phone because the hardware manufacturer swears there's no way to get Jellybean running on the hardware he sold you last Tuesday. And technically the manufacturer's right. If you don't want to pay an engineer to work on last year's product because last year's product is no longer a profit center, then it is indeed impossible to get new software running on last year's product.

      Heck, have you ever tried to return a computer product to a non-Apple manufacturer? I have, and it's a pain. OTOH this one time I spilled Dr. Pepper on my MacBook, which was out of warranty, and when I told the guy at the Apple store this he replaced the motherboard anyway.

      Yes he was being cynical. He thought he could buy my undying loyalty with good customer service. And since nobody else in the industry does that shit, it actually worked.

    15. Re:Disappointing for a new connector by T-Bone-T · · Score: 1

      They aren't losing money in the military sector. I see more and more iPad Minis every week. Something about the Air Force drives people to buy Apple products. Every other person, at minimum, has an iPod Touch and probably at least 1/4 have a MacBook.

    16. Re:Disappointing for a new connector by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      I've got to agree with you on this. Yes, you pay a significant premium for Apple gear, but they do make up for it with customer service that figuratively kisses the customers ass every time, sometimes even throwing in fixes for free on equipment that is no longer under warranty.When Clarke's Discount Honda fixed my car for free (more than once, actually) they DID buy long-time customer loyalty from me. So Apple should believe it will work with most of their customers too. It partially works for me; my wife has a top-end iPad and old MacBook, my daughter has a top-end new PowerBook. But for myself, I just got a $300 Dell laptop from Walmart, which was a heck of a lot cheaper than the $2000 I paid for my daughter's laptop.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    17. Re:Disappointing for a new connector by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      How much did you spend on connectors? Probably $50-$150.

      $5.20 for 2 which included shipping. Just saying.

    18. Re:Disappointing for a new connector by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Don't worry, Apple will break your knock-off cable in the next iOS update.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    19. Re:Disappointing for a new connector by YeeHaW_Jelte · · Score: 1

      "Heck let's compare them to other companies. How much does an Android user with a Gingerbread phone have to pay to get Jellybean? Can't be done. Has to buy a new phone because the hardware manufacturer swears there's no way to get Jellybean running on the hardware he sold you last Tuesday. And technically the manufacturer's right. If you don't want to pay an engineer to work on last year's product because last year's product is no longer a profit center, then it is indeed impossible to get new software running on last year's product."

      Eh no. I've a Samsung Galaxy II which is now running 4.1.2 Jelly Bean. And no, this is not a self installed mod, it's a manufactorer provided update which installed itself automatically. No computer required, no horrid shit-piece of software called iTunes required.

      Some nice features of the Galaxy III were even backported. This phone feels brand new again.

      --

      ---
      "The chances of a demonic possession spreading are remote -- relax."
    20. Re:Disappointing for a new connector by PipsqueakOnAP133 · · Score: 1

      Samsung's modified micro USB connector does 1080p.... at 30fps.
      In fact, almost every Android device with MHL I've looked at is limited to 1080p30..... or 1080p24.... or 720p60.

      This adapter does 1080p at 60fps if the device attached to it can provide the stream. (ipad mini can't, iphone 5 can)

  7. Airplane mode? by S'harien · · Score: 1

    What happens if you just turn on airplane mode on the phone and try to use the adapter? If it's really creating an ad-hoc network to do this, the output shouldn't work. Disappointing to hear about the quality of the image, regardless of how it gets there. Apple, you can and have done better.

    1. Re:Airplane mode? by Anonymous+Psychopath · · Score: 1

      What would airplane mode have to do with a wired interface?

      --

      Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

    2. Re:Airplane mode? by Jesus_666 · · Score: 3, Informative

      When TFA says "AirPlay connection" they probably mean "AirPlay connection over Lightning". They don't have enough pins to just send an HDMI signal through the line (Lightning has 8 while HDMI has 19) so they essentially create an MPEG stream on the device, then send it to the adapter, which upscales the stream and sends it down the cable. Apparently they lack the computing power to do a realtime encode/decode for a 1080p stream, which is why you get 1600x900 at most.

      Bizarrely, MHL (which also has 8 or 11 pins depending on whether your device comes from Samsung; the connector is not part of the standard) can do 1080p HDMI while having much cheaper (and probably much simpler) cables to boot. It appears that either Lightning is noticeably inferior to MHL or Apple just managed to badly screw up the adapter.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    3. Re:Airplane mode? by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      What would airplane mode have to do with a wired interface?

      He heard "airplay" and jumped to the conclusion that when you plug in the connector, what really happens is the video is sent out of the device via WiFi and picked up by the dongle, which then converts it to HDMI (plugging it in being to supply firmware and power).

      I'm pretty sure what really happens is that Airplay, being Apple's own patented sauce, is being used as a compressed streaming method on the wire so that the signal is encrypted all the way from the device to the peripheral, and thus has more leeway in how it can be used on third party devices.

    4. Re:Airplane mode? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bizarrely, MHL (which also has 8 or 11 pins depending on whether your device comes from Samsung; the connector is not part of the standard) can do 1080p HDMI while having much cheaper (and probably much simpler) cables to boot. It appears that either Lightning is noticeably inferior to MHL or Apple just managed to badly screw up the adapter.

      Neither.

      The issue is the application, not the connector or protocol. 1080p video content plays fine at 1920x1080. Screen mirroring is what's not running at 1080p, nothing more or less than that.

    5. Re:Airplane mode? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to forget the nexus 4 slim port that use the same 5 pin thant usb otg

    6. Re:Airplane mode? by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      Neither.

      The issue is the application, not the connector or protocol. 1080p video content plays fine at 1920x1080. Screen mirroring is what's not running at 1080p, nothing more or less than that.

      Ah, right. So their screen mirroring doesn't like the way the adapter does things. That makes a bit more sense (and might actually be fixed in software later).

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
  8. Wow, rendered pointless by Grayhand · · Score: 1

    The main advantage I could see is video editing but adding artifacts makes me want to stick to my firewire machine.

  9. Do you even know what "serial" means? by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Informative

    With its limited pin count, it's not a surprise that the Lightning connector does not have the bandwidth to transfer uncompressed video.

    Good grief. How many pins, exactly, would you say are needed for a serial connection?

    Now look at the end of any USB cable and the end of a Lightning connector. What is the pin count between the two?

    micro-USB3 would have had enough bandwidth

    Also look at how many pins are in a USB 3 connector (HINT: ITS THE SAME).

    This issue has nothing to do with bandwidth from Lightning.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Do you even know what "serial" means? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Informative

      "Good grief. How many pins, exactly, would you say are needed for a serial connection?"

      One, if you're operating an old telegraph. Eleven, if you're doing HDMI. Four twisted pairs for differential serial, plus three that are used for control information. Monitor resolution detection, that sort of thing.

      http://www.hdmi.org/installers/insidehdmicable.aspx

      Some devices appear to do it with less, but they are actually using MHL, not HDMI.

    2. Re:Do you even know what "serial" means? by crutchy · · Score: 1

      i remember when i was a kid being amazed at how through two small core copper wires you can make a phone work with no connection to the domestic power supply, and then on top of that they also made it so you could access high speed broadband (well, if you could call ADSL2+ high speed). it's really quite amazing what can fit down those measly two wires. they obviously watched the movie "honey i shrunk the kids" and took it to the next level. i only wish i could shrink my bills like that.

      god knows what they will be able to do when we eventually (in australia anyway) get fttp. maybe when we order a pizza online they'll be able to send it through the fibre.

    3. Re:Do you even know what "serial" means? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Two, if you're using an old telegraph.

    4. Re:Do you even know what "serial" means? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      This issue has nothing to do with bandwidth from Lightning.

      Actually it does. The Lightning connector appears not to have the signal integrity necessary to support the serial bit rate needed for 1080p video. The electronics and physical design limit the bandwidth available.

      The number of pins has nothing to do with it. Micro USB 2.0 connectors support 1080p video via MHI. I don't know why Apple were unable to match that relatively mature and very low cost technology.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    5. Re:Do you even know what "serial" means? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Early, early telegraph attempts used anywhere from 8 to thirty some wires trying to send a whole letter at a time. Morse's system which became popular because of how cheap it was used a single wire.

    6. Re:Do you even know what "serial" means? by SplatMan_DK · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nope. He is correct. Just one.

      And a grounded wire at each end; sure. But there is no need to run that along the signal line. ;-)

      - Jesper

      --
      My security clearance is so high I have to kill myself if I remember I have it...
    7. Re:Do you even know what "serial" means? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually you only need one, you can use the earth as your ground, though it will be noisey.

    8. Re:Do you even know what "serial" means? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      POTS supplies battery-backed 48v from the Central Office, with 100v rings.

  10. Of course it has a CPU in it. by Animats · · Score: 4, Informative

    Of course it has a CPU in it. Something has to do the protocol conversion.

    It's not clear that Apple's AirPlay protocol, which has HTTP connections in both directions, is involved. But the pictures indicate compression artifacts. The original article doesn't go into enough detail to determine whether image compression (like JPEG) or motion compression (like MPEG) is being used. An MPEG compressor would introduce visible lag between the master and slave screens.

    1. Re:Of course it has a CPU in it. by MassacrE · · Score: 3, Informative

      Although I don't have the means or desire to test it, it is far more likely that they decided most of what people would want to output via HDMI was H.264-encoded video. So they made an interface where H.264 was streamed over the lightning connector, and converted by this adapter to HDMI. Probably both sides use HDCP or similar protections.

      The limitations Panic encountered are because the video support in the iPad mini can only h.264 encode the screen (for 'mirroring') at lower-than-1080p resolutions.

    2. Re:Of course it has a CPU in it. by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Most phones and tablets output HDMI directly via either a HDMI or USB/MHI port. Most modern graphics processors support HDMI output. It is very surprising that Apple need this extra processor when most ARM based devices support HDMI natively.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  11. "UP TO 1080p!" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not a lie, it says "UP TO" 1080p. Mathematically speaking that's "less than or equal to (<=)". If it had then supplied something with a resolution greater than 1080p, well, then it would have been a lie. 1600x900 is less than 1080p, so it's correct! ;-) (All cynicism provided free of charge!)

    1. Re:"UP TO 1080p!" by tibman · · Score: 1

      >It's not a lie, it says "UP TO" 1080p. Mathematically speaking that's "less than or equal to (=)"

      More like "up to but not including" 1080p

      --
      http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
    2. Re:"UP TO 1080p!" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's market-speak for "Good luck ever attaining this performance. We tested it under ideal conditions in a lab and got it to work once. Maybe."

      There might have been a time when Apple was cool but that time is over. Now Apple is about as cool as a room full of bean counters and patent lawyers. Yuck!

    3. Re:"UP TO 1080p!" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you treat "Up to" = "At best" for dealing with marking related buzz words, then you won't be disappointed when it doesn't deliver. e.g. DSL speeds, savings etc.

      "Up to" no good.

  12. Nice speculation by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Too bad there was basically nothing in the article demonstrating they'd attempted to test the hypothesis. They cut it open, found an SoC, and started speculating.

    Any of this is certainly testable.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:Nice speculation by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      It's not testable if you already took your only cable apart...

      They seem to be planning on buying another one and posting some more later, tho.

  13. can it be reprogrammed?` by Selur · · Score: 0

    would be interesting to know if the chip can be reprogrammed,.. to do other stuff you or the ?Apple? wants,....

  14. Never apply DRM to someone else's work by Sloppy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Whoa. Are you saying this is applying HDCP to everything it plays?

    That would be very interesting, since if I made a video of my own and played it through this device, the television would be descrambling a technological measure which limits access, without my authorization. That's circumvention. This device from Apple, would cause the manufacture and sale of all HDMI compliant TVs to become illegal.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    1. Re:Never apply DRM to someone else's work by someones · · Score: 1

      ... no just that one apple connector...

    2. Re:Never apply DRM to someone else's work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was with you right up until the thing about tv makers. That doesn't make any sense.

    3. Re:Never apply DRM to someone else's work by forty-2 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, newer macs will kick in HDCP if you look at them the wrong way. About a year and a half ago, we were running a generative visual app (Jitter) on a mini feeding an HDMI capture card on a PC (gen'ing alpha masks for a Watchout system). We could see boot-up through the capture card, but as soon as the quickTime component initialized, the output was borked.
      lesson learned: stick with analog

      --
      never drink kool-aid from a big vat
    4. Re:Never apply DRM to someone else's work by gravis777 · · Score: 1

      So you are not going to pass the content to an HDMI capture card. Big deal - you use the USB cable to transfer the file directly to your computer. The only issue I see here is if the cable becomes kinked or something and you have issues with handshake. At which point, you curse Apple for not using industry standard MicroHDMI, and you pay 10 times the price.

      Of course, if you are that concerned about DRM on your files, I am willing to bet you don't have an Apple phone anyways. Heaven forbid you download anything (music, movies, apps) through iTunes.

  15. Smoking mushrooms? Talk about drug abuse.... by Ellis+D.+Tripp · · Score: 4, Funny

    What a waste of psilocybin....

    --
    Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
    1. Re:Smoking mushrooms? Talk about drug abuse.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed. Smoking mushrooms is like using "drinking" beer through your skin.

      As one who grows my own shrooms... it's a total waste of several weeks (if not more, depending).

    2. Re:Smoking mushrooms? Talk about drug abuse.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      judging by the post it didn't sound like any of it got wasted.

  16. But the real question is what else can it do. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I think we are missing the point a little here, They released a tiny computer for 50 bucks, now we just need a port of cyanogen for it.

    1. Re:But the real question is what else can it do. by game+kid · · Score: 1

      ...but not NetBSD, because of course it runs NetBSD.

      --
      You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
    2. Re:But the real question is what else can it do. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And then wait for someone to release an iOS-themed launcher for it.

    3. Re:But the real question is what else can it do. by PPH · · Score: 1

      Maybe we could string a bunch of these together and make a Beowulf cluster.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  17. Re:Apple sucks sheeple... by crutchy · · Score: 1

    ultra hdmi

  18. Where do you see "serial" in "Lightning"? by romiz · · Score: 1

    The serial/parallel distinction is completely useless in here. But you're right on the pin count.

    There are 9 pins in a full size USB3 connector, and 8 pins in a Lightning connector. But when the lightning connector has two data pairs, USB3 has a bidirectional pair for legacy, and two single-direction pairs for high-speed traffic. HDMI, and Displayport respectively have 3 pairs (+ 1 differential clock) and 4 pairs.

    The real question is the nature of the signal on those pairs. USB2 is 480Mb/s with a lot of protocol overhead, HDMI has 3.40 Gb/s with only error correction, and USB3 is 5 Gb/s, but still has (parts of) its inefficient protocol. Depending from what Apple is doing, it could route only the high-speed signaling of USB3 on the Lightning connector's two pairs, and provide the same performance as a standard USB3 cable.

    However, since Apple keeps all information about Lightning under wraps, only insiders can tell. And until now, all we've seen is quite underwhelming, with USB2 data cables, and now this adapter.

    1. Re:Where do you see "serial" in "Lightning"? by SuperKendall · · Score: 1, Informative

      The serial/parallel distinction is completely useless in here.

      The point of that is that he's claiming it can't possibly have much bandwidth without a lot of pins. So, seemingly, he's never heard of serial style connectors which never have a ton of pins compared to parallel style connectors...

      And until now, all we've seen is quite underwhelming, with USB2 data cables, and now this adapter.

      Neither needs to be faster. Most people now use cables only for charging. Data and even movie purchases go onto the devices wirelessly for most users. Backup happens wirelessly. Broadcasting video happens wirelessly. So Apple made cables that do on thing really well - charge rapidly - and the other tasks provide sufficient levels of performance, with some things like HDMI signals directly from the device dropped as legacy. It's pointless to support USB 3.0 speeds on data transfer when it would add to the cost of the device and yet very few users would benefit from it.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    2. Re:Where do you see "serial" in "Lightning"? by romiz · · Score: 1

      I recognize I was wrong in linking the low bandwidth problem with the number of pins, because I referred to the HDMI/DP standards, that used multiple lanes to increase the bandwidth, instead of USB3 or MHL, discussed elsewhere in this thread, that prove that the feature is possible.I spend long enough with hardware controllers to know that there is a wide set of protocols to interconnect two systems, and in my opinion the serial/parallel classification is not interesting.

      In the end, others manufacturers achieve to do what Apple doesn't: a small, standard connector with good A/V support. It is Apple's choice when upgrading its connector to degrade a working feature, adding latency and artifacts, while producing a proprietary connector. You see it as a good thing because cables are useless; I don't.

    3. Re:Where do you see "serial" in "Lightning"? by Pubstar · · Score: 2

      I do all my syncing wirelessly because I love waiting a long time for data transfers!

  19. Re:Hint: removing widely unused feature is simpler by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You're such a giant wanker, Kendall.

  20. That is certainly one way to look at it by nbahi15 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Fact: Apple has an ARM processor in the cable. It is fair to assume the video is processed by the chip in the cable.

    The rest of the facts in this case are just speculation:
    * Is design a 'limitation', or a design choice?
    * Is the 1600x900 output seen by Panic a Panic problem or an Apple one? Is it a bug or a limitation of the hardware? File a bug and find out
    * Is the connector providing Airplay over the 6cm cable? Pure speculation. Sounds plausible, even clever, but that is just a guess.

    It seems to me that there is certainly an interesting story in this adapter, but I don't think we know what that story is yet.

    1. Re:That is certainly one way to look at it by jsepeta · · Score: 1

      is 1600x900 a problem? why wouldn't they pick a better standard like 1920x1080? perhaps the ARM chip they're using cannot support a higher resolution. and dang Apple, for the price they charge for their products, one would hope they could understand the importance of using universal standards like 1080p.

      --
      Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
    2. Re:That is certainly one way to look at it by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      * Is the 1600x900 output seen by Panic a Panic problem or an Apple one? Is it a bug or a limitation of the hardware? File a bug and find out

      ...at the same time everyone else does. This is Apple we're talking about, not your favorite Linux distribution.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:That is certainly one way to look at it by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      Apple ... using universal standards

      Heh heh. That was a good one! ;)

    4. Re:That is certainly one way to look at it by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      * Is design a 'limitation', or a design choice?

      Irrelevant. The story here is that the new product is inferior to the old while at the same time the marketing materials say that it supports a resolution that the OS reports is not available and which worked fine on the old connector.

      It wouldn't be an issue if from the onset it didn't claim to support 1080p, and if the use of the connector didn't produce artefacts.

    5. Re:That is certainly one way to look at it by Erikderzweite · · Score: 1

      They are clearly holding the cable wrong.

    6. Re:That is certainly one way to look at it by nbahi15 · · Score: 1

      I personally have filed bugs with Apple before regarding problems in the iOS SDK. As an example, a bug regarding Attributed Text strings leaking, but a work around was found and I received a response. Summary of response: "It does leak and we will fix it. No timeframe for when it will be ready."

      So in the case I had an iPad 4 and a Digital AV adapter to test with, I would verify, document the steps to reproduce and submit.

      The specs for the Original 30-pin adapter which I can verify are accurate:

      Use the Apple Digital AV Adapter to mirror whatever’s on your iPad or iPhone 4S screen — apps, presentations, websites, and more — on your HDTV or HDMI-compatible display in up to 1080p HD (movies play at up to 720p).
      Watch slideshows and movies on the big screen in up to 720p by connecting your iPad, iPhone 4, or iPod touch (4th generation) to an HDTV or HDMI-compatible display.
      The Apple Digital AV Adapter routes digital audio to screens that support it.
      Connect the Apple Digital AV Adapter to your iPad, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, or iPod touch (4th generation) via the 30-pin dock connector and to your HDMI-compatible display using an HDMI cable (sold separately).
      A second 30-pin connector built into the AV adapter lets you charge and sync your device while it’s connected to your HDMI-compatible display.

      The specs for the Lightning adapter:

      Use the Lightning Digital AV Adapter with your iPad with Retina display, iPad mini, iPhone 5, and iPod touch (5th generation) with Lightning connector. The Lightning Digital AV Adapter supports mirroring of what is displayed on your device screen — including apps, presentations, websites, slideshows, and more — to your HDMI-equipped TV, display, projector, or other compatible display in up to 1080p HD.
      It also outputs video content — movies, TV shows, captured video — to your big screen in up to 1080p HD. Simply attach the Lightning Digital AV Adapter to the Lightning connector on your device and then to your TV or projector via an HDMI cable (sold separately).

      Based upon this, I would say that Panic has in fact discovered a bug. The adapter is rated without qualification for 1080p.

  21. And this is custom by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    See I can give people who use micro-USB a bit of a pass. You are using a standard that doesn't have enough pins/BW/whatever for HDMI. Fine, that is the price you pay for using a standard (though as you noted it can be extended as Samsung did). However Apple's is fully custom. They made their own connector. So why the issue? Why was it not designed properly in the first place? They could have, they just didn't.

  22. EREV by tepples · · Score: 1

    It's like having a 300HP engine in your fancy new sportscar, but all it does is turn an electric generator that delivers 50HP to the electric drive motor.

    In other words, a poorly scaled series hybrid. Car buyers would eat up Apple Motor Company's excuse: "This oversized engine charges the car's battery pack more quickly so that you're not carrying so much fuel around all the time."

  23. Re:Stop the presses! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Wow, not only did you not read the article, you didn't even look at the pictures, did you?

    Stop the presses! The are scaling 1024x768 content to 1600x900,

    The cable is advertised as doing "up to 1080". It does not.

    and there are MPEG artifacts happening as a result?!?! The deuce you say! There's never artifacts when you scale things! Never, I say!

    Did you look at the picture? Those are not scaling artifacts: there is noise around edges. Those look like artifacts from MPEG or a similar compression algorithm. If it was just scaling, it would introduce aliasing patterns, which is not what they are talking about.

    Next thing I know, you'll be claiming that Apple didn't replace all the already transcoded content on the Inktomi CDN with new, higher resolution content over night!

    What does that have to do with this discussion?

    It's almost already too scandalous that they used a CPU and software to avoid having to design and spin silicon for a Lightning-to-HDMI converter ASIC.

    In fact, it looks like they did create an ARM-based ASIC, which on the face of it is bizarre to find in something sold as "an adapter cable". It's obviously doing something much more than or quite different from your standard adapter cable.

    I can only echo some of the sentiments expressed in the bad ratings they received in several reviews from owners of Samsung Televisions which improperly negotiate EDID information by failing to negotiate on input sources which are not selected at the time the device comes online. One would almost think this might be an issue for Linux systems when trying to use HDMI to output to Samsung equipment, or that Dish Network DVRs might have similar problems (with the fix being to plug the device into the input channel which is selected by default when the television is powered on).

    EDID? Linux? What? The article doesn't mention those topics at all. It's talking about an ARM-based chip that was unexpectedly found in a new model of a supposed "adapter cable" from Apple that is providing results that are substantially inferior to what was available on older models of Apple's similar products. As a result, if you use this cable to attach your iWhatever to a TV, you get laggy, downsampled, artifact-laden video, where Apples previous products and products from their competitors deliver sharp, un-transcoded 1080p video.

  24. Why and how it would be done (hypothetical) by tepples · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Consider this hypothetical: Movie studios license their works to cable and satellite networks. The studios and networks want to measure to what extent HDMI playback from iDevices competes with cable and satellite TV. (In this case, playback on the internal display of a mobile device is considered complement, not competition.) So they get Apple to add something buried in the protocol between the iDevice and the adapter to measure this. The ARM microcontroller in the adapter measures the screen size of the device on the other end of the HDMI cable and reports it to the iDevice, which sends it to Apple the next time the device connects to iCloud.

    1. Re:Why and how it would be done (hypothetical) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Umm, why do you need the cable to do that? If the cable is just a generic adapter doing nothing special, wouldn't the device get all of the information possible anyway, such as needing to know what resolutions it can output? The cable doesn't have internet connectivity, so the device has to send the information anyways if it is to be connected.

    2. Re:Why and how it would be done (hypothetical) by tepples · · Score: 1

      Umm, why do you need the cable to do that?

      Technically, the smarts to collect this sort of data wouldn't need to be in the cable, other than to cryptographically acknowledge to the host that the cable is an authentic cable that implements movie-studio-approved copy protection measures. But doing some of the work in the cable would help obfuscate the precise manner of data collection.

  25. Store blob in flash by tepples · · Score: 1

    [Proprietary] firmware blobs have been the curse of linux driver developers for years. RAM is cheaper than custom-masked ROM.

    But RAM is also more expensive per bit than flash memory. Ideally, SoC firmware blobs would be stored in flash on the device.

  26. Doesn't matter by GrahamJ · · Score: 0

    Very few people will ever wire their iDevice to a display when AirPlay works so well over wireless. This is a non-issue.

  27. For the same reason floppies are out by SuperKendall · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The Lightning connector appears not to have the signal integrity necessary to support the serial bit rate needed for 1080p video.

    There is no problem with data transfer rates across Lighting being any slower than the older cables, and I have never had an issue with 1080p content across USB2.0 (which has a lot of overhead).

    The number of pins has nothing to do with it.

    Which was one of my points. You can't just look at something and say "my, that doesn't have a lot of pins, the bandwidth must be terrible".

    Micro USB 2.0 connectors support 1080p video via MHI. I don't know why Apple were unable to match that relatively mature

    Wow, I don't get why Apple would drop an ancient technology used by very few people any more. No idea at all why they wouldn't support every standard back to bird-calls used by tribes in Africa.

    Apple did what they always do. Drop a technology a bit ahead of the point it's obvious the need for it is gone, and provide a legacy compatible bridge.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:For the same reason floppies are out by Beardydog · · Score: 1

      When a cable company says no one has signed up for its $200 top-tier, everyone laughs. When Apple says nobody is using its $50 HDMI cable, it's because HDMI from a tablet-computer is "ancient." I would love to plug my iPad into all my various screens, but I'm not going to pay $50 for the privilege.

      This is not the same as Apple selling an external floppy drive after removing floppies from its systems. The HDMI adapter has always been separate. The floppies weren't limited to 768k disks because of USB limitations, either. A consumer with one of these cables has payed the same price for a substantially worse product than they got before. According the the article, it's even being sold with false information.

      "The Lightning Digital AV Adapter supports mirroring of what is displayed on your device screen — including apps, presentations, websites, slideshows, and more — to your HDMI-equipped TV, display, projector, or other compatible display in up to 1080p HD."

      They specifically mention 1080p video in the next paragraph, so maybe when you have an existing 1080p video on your device, they dump it straight the chip in the cable for playback over HDMI, and that one instance is where they satisfy their "up to" claim. I don't know. But it sucks. The only person it doesn't suck for is someone who doesn't use it, and therefore has no dog in the fight.

    2. Re:For the same reason floppies are out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The claim that HDMI is ancient are pure, unadulterated bullshit. I've seen a lot of set-ups people have with tablets and smartphones hooked to TVs, and every single one of them uses HDMI. I've yet to see any that used AirPlay, even for owners of iDevices.

    3. Re:For the same reason floppies are out by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Drop a technology a bit ahead of the point it's obvious the need for it is gone, and provide a legacy compatible bridge.

      But their "compatible bridge" is shit, it doesn't even do 1080p. It is inferior to their old one, let along what their competitors are offering.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  28. Switch inputs to the $99 Apple TV by tepples · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sending video through Airplay is WAY easier than keeping cables around to hook up an iPad to a display

    As opposed to keeping cables around to hook up a $99 AirPlay receiver to a display?

    and having to know how to switch video inputs (still an unfathomable mystery to many)

    If it's unfathomable to switch inputs to the iPad, it's just as unfathomable to switch inputs to the Apple TV.

    I've fallen and am only outselling everyone else in the market by a huge margin!

    Do you want me to go dig up the story about Nexus tablets outselling the iPad? I will if you want.

    1. Re:Switch inputs to the $99 Apple TV by SuperKendall · · Score: 0

      As opposed to keeping cables around to hook up a $99 AirPlay receiver to a display?

      Yes because you only hook it up once and then don't hook it up again.

      If it's unfathomable to switch inputs to the iPad, it's just as unfathomable to switch inputs to the Apple TV.

      No, because get used to how to switch between parts of a system they use everyday.

      It's only when you bring in another part irregularly attached that people get befuddled how to select it.

      Not to mention that more people than not won't even be playing it on the TV to begin with, they'll just watch it on the iPad.

      Do you want me to go dig up the story about Nexus tablets outselling the iPad? I will if you want.

      You can spend your time however you like but given how obviously batshit insane such a theory is given the browsing metrics AND the regions Apple sells into vs. Google... Well, go ahead and beclown yourself.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    2. Re:Switch inputs to the $99 Apple TV by tepples · · Score: 1

      Yes because you only hook [the Apple TV] up once and then don't hook it up again.

      Likewise, you'd only hook the Lightning-to-HDMI cable up once and then don't hook it up again.

      get used to how to switch between parts of a system they use everyday

      You're assuming that one would use the Apple TV every day even when the iPad is not attached. I'm willing to consider your reason as to why that is a valid assumption.

      batshit insane

      Language please.

      Well, go ahead and beclown yourself.

      See my reply to BasilBrush. In fact, it was the first thing that popped up for Google nexus outsell ipad.

    3. Re:Switch inputs to the $99 Apple TV by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      Do you want me to go dig up the story about Nexus tablets outselling the iPad? I will if you want.

      Technically, that's false. There was an article that Nexus may have outsold iPad in one market over the holidays (Japan), but that turned out to be false. But who cares?

      MacOS just hit 5% global market share. It was under 3% until 2007. The top five computer companies before Steve came back were Apple, HP, Compaq, IBM, and Packard-Bell. Today HP and Compaq are one, Packard-Bell's been bought, and IBM left the personal computer business. Apple is no longer technically in the top five, but it's making a lot more money then anyone who actually is in the top five. Selling a lot of units is nice, but it's not like you go bankrupt just because some idiot at Compaq figures out he can sell a fuck-ton of units if his price is below cost.

      Android/Nexus/etc. will eventually get more market share then iOS. Google's strategy is to gain market-share, and they are very good at doing that. Apple's strategy is to create markets by designing completely products miles ahead of the competition in terms of usability, make a mint off the monopoly; and then when the competition finally catches up they continue to make money by selling premium products. Thus they create the market for GUI PCs, and continue to make money off it despite miserable market-share. iPhone's market share is quite low, but they're still making money on it. Probably more profit then Samsung or any single Android phone manufacturer. In the next year or so the same thing will happen to tablets.

      And no-one at Apple will care.

  29. Poster/Article is way off ... by SplatMan_DK · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The electronics involved have nothing to do with AirPlay, and this is not "news" in any way. Sorry to ruin excitement and conspiracy theories... :-)

    I am willing to bet serious money that all these chips do is decode whatever proprietary protocol Apple uses for transmitting video over the Lightning port to a standard HDCP protected HDMI signal. This is needed because the Lightning port has no other way of transmitting the video - and this has been clear from the day Apple revealed the Lightning port to the world. It is really just a high-speed 8-pin serial connector. Nothing else.

    In addition the chips probably try to introduce a classic vendor lock-in factor, making it hard for 3rd party vendors to provide similar cables and accessories for the Lightning port without paying royalties to Apple (read: legal tech-extortion).

    Also, the scaling-problems mentioned are without a doubt due to the screen-mirror scheme involved. If they streamed an actual 1080p video file directly, the result would likely be very different.

    The speculation in the article is so far from reality it almost hurts... They get points for taking it apart and all, but they could have reached the correct conclusion merely by reading up on the existing specs of the Lightning port (if they had bothered to add a bit of digital-video knowledge from Wikipedia that is).

    - Jesper

    --
    My security clearance is so high I have to kill myself if I remember I have it...
    1. Re:Poster/Article is way off ... by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Does an implementation of HDCP require 2G of RAM?

      I'm not saying Panic is right. But I am saying that their explanation, at least, sounds like it's going in the right direction, whereas it would be extraordinarily overengineered for this thing to be there solely to convert from one DRM system to another.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    2. Re:Poster/Article is way off ... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Also, the scaling-problems mentioned are without a doubt due to the screen-mirror scheme involved.

      Why do they look like compression artifacts, then?

    3. Re:Poster/Article is way off ... by KeithIrwin · · Score: 2

      The HDCP side would most definitely not require that. It's a stream cipher, so aside from any buffering you might do if your HDCP solution was software rather than hardware (which would actually still seem pretty difficult to do even with a fairly stompy processor), it needs less than a kilobyte. The other side, who knows?

    4. Re:Poster/Article is way off ... by SplatMan_DK · · Score: 2

      No, absolutely not. Then again, the the device has 2 Gb of RAM, not 2 GB. Or in more clear terms: 256 MB. They just don't know how to read the numbers on the chips properly.

      And it is not only the DRM, it is (likely) converting one digital video encoding to another - also called Transcoding.

      - Jesper

      --
      My security clearance is so high I have to kill myself if I remember I have it...
    5. Re:Poster/Article is way off ... by SplatMan_DK · · Score: 1

      I am no expert on video compression but I would say: Because upscaling video always produces artifacts?

      To me it sounds like they are upscaling a Desktop video signal (likely the 1600x900 they keep referring to) to 1080p. Last I checked any kind of upscaling produces artifacts...

      - Jesper

      --
      My security clearance is so high I have to kill myself if I remember I have it...
    6. Re:Poster/Article is way off ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try looking at the fine pictures?
      Those are [M/J]PEG compression artifacts, no kind of scaling produces these.

    7. Re:Poster/Article is way off ... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Upscaling does not produce artifacts like what you see on those screenshots. It results in blocky pixels, or blurred lines if interpolation is used. What's there is a bunch of pixels sprayed over what was even-colored surface in the original signal.

      Anyway, just look at the AC comment below that explains the system - they really did use H.264 compression for the signal. Gah.

    8. Re:Poster/Article is way off ... by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      No, it's not transcoding, it's either copying or decoding. You can't transmit compressed video over HDMI. HDMI is a raw digital feed - that is, grids of pixels are sent for every frame.

      It's copying if TFA is wrong. It's decoding if they're (completely or mostly - Airplay might not be involved but it might be an Airplay like protocol over USB) right.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    9. Re:Poster/Article is way off ... by SplatMan_DK · · Score: 2

      It is correct that HDMI generally transmits uncompressed video, but it is absolutely not raw (or RAW) and it is encoded (as virtually all digital signals are, especially audio and video) ... :-)

      Video transmitted over HDMI is encoded using Transition-minimized differential signaling (TMDS) which is a variation of 8b/10b encoding.

      Also, "grids of pixels" are not transmitted. I have no idea who told you that but don't listen to them/him/her. In a HDMI video signal, one line is defined as the "active" line, and its content is then transmitted in chunks of 32 pixels (during the "TMDS Video Data Period") untill the line is complete and the next line can begin. A lot of control data is transmitted between the chunks of video data, and most of it has an ECC parity for error-correction.

      The audio-portion of the signal is also encoded, with whatever encoding the source has chosen to use - lossless or lossy compression is supported and multi-channel audio over HDMI is typically encoded with lossy compression.

      On top of it all, the signal is often encrypted using DRM technology.

      So yes - it is encoded, supplied with ECC parity, and mixed with a whole lot of other information as well.
      .

      :-)

      - Jesper

      --
      My security clearance is so high I have to kill myself if I remember I have it...
    10. Re:Poster/Article is way off ... by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure what you think I was trying to say, but what I said in no way is contradicted by what you're saying, any more than it would have been if I'd said that CDs are recorded as a continuous sequence of digital audio samples, and you'd inerjected that CDs are encoded as EFM with Reed-Solomon encoding.

      Of course, at an extremely low level, the grid of pixels is further subdivided into blocks of pixels, and yes, amazingly enough they're not transmitted directly onto a wire, what with wire being incapable of transmitting numbers unless they're encoded in some fashion.

      That doesn't make it wrong. And more importantly, in context, transmitting an uncompressed 1920x1080 image sixty times a second does not require an ARM with 2Gb of RAM, a completely ridiculously overengineered design for something that's more simply done with an ASIC.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    11. Re:Poster/Article is way off ... by SplatMan_DK · · Score: 1

      Based on this, can we not say that the signal is decoded and then re-encoded using a different standard (hence Transcoded)? :-)

      Anyway, it would seem we mostly agree on the technical bits and pieces.

      I don't know if the system is "over-engineered" having an ARM with 2Gb of memory. But the software in the device isn't a static firmware. Instead Apple uploads the software to it (from the Mac it is connected to) each time it is initialized. This makes the design more flexible as Apple can update the "firmware" bit just as they would with any other OSX update. It provides Apple with the technical capability to change the vendor-lock-in factor associated with the Lightning port standard (in case anyone ever reverse-engineered the current ones) and it also makes it possible for them to support future HDMI features which have yet to be released.

      While you may perceive it as "over-engineered" it does provide a number of clear benefits for Apple. And if they can get the consumer to pony up an additional 4 or even 10 USD for the device then why the hell not? (I am not advocating for this approach - I am saying I understand the benefits from Apples point of view).

      The ability to mess around with the vendor lock-in parts, and update the HDMI standard as needed, are very clear benefits with this design. There may be others as well.

      - Jesper

      --
      My security clearance is so high I have to kill myself if I remember I have it...
  30. I can't believe no one has asked yet, by ClaraBow · · Score: 3, Funny

    does it run linux?

    1. Re:I can't believe no one has asked yet, by Megane · · Score: 1

      does it blend?

      FTFY.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  31. I would have had first post... by decep · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...except my Apple ethernet cable needed a firmware update.

  32. skip the cable: reflector app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    found this nice gem this week: https://www.reflectorapp.com/

    the entire office was tripping on it once I unleashed it to the sale guys!

    1. Re:skip the cable: reflector app by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      or use the built-in airplay mirroring features of the OS :)
      iOS 6: double-click home button, swipe left, and select display

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
  33. Expectations!!! by CHIT2ME · · Score: 1

    Hey!, It's an Apple product, what did you expect?

    --
    My karma is bad. Don't get too close!!!
  34. Not if you look at Carrier's prices. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fry's had the latest phones up on one of their ads, and they're claiming the Nexus 4 is a 650 dollar phone with 500 dollar instant rebate on 2 year contract.

    My friend currently has one on order from google, but given that kind of scamming from the carriers, who here thinks these phone prices are even close to the actual cost/potential retail price of the items?

  35. There is no Airplay involved. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Airplay is not involved in the operation of this adapter.

    It is true that the kernel the adapter SoC boots is based off of XNU, but that's where the similarities between iOS and the adapter firmware end. The firmware environment doesn't even run launchd. There's no shell in the image, there's no utilities (analogous to what we used to call the "BSD Subsystem" in Mac OS X). It boots straight into a daemon designed to accept incoming data from the host device, decode that data stream, and output it through the A/V connectors. There's a set of kernel modules that handle the low level data transfer and HDMI output, but that's about it. I wish I could offer more details then this but I'm posting as AC for a damned good reason.

    The reason why this adapter exists is because Lightning is simply not capable of streaming a "raw" HDMI signal across the cable. Lightning is a serial bus. There is no clever wire multiplexing involved. Contrary to the opinions presented in this thread, we didn't do this to screw the customer. We did this to specifically shift the complexity of the "adapter" bit into the adapter itself, leaving the host hardware free of any concerns in regards to what was hanging off the other end of the Lightning cable. If you wanted to produce a Lightning adapter that offered something like a GPIB port (don't laugh, I know some guys doing exactly this) on the other end, then the only support you need to implement on the iDevice is in software- not hardware. The GPIB adapter contains all the relevant Lightning -> GPIB circuitry.

    It's vastly the same thing with the HDMI adapter. Lightning doesn't have anything to do with HDMI at all. Again, it's just a high speed serial interface. Airplay uses a bunch of hardware h264 encoding technology that we've already got access to, so what happens here is that we use the same hardware to encode an output stream on the fly and fire it down the Lightning cable straight into the ARM SoC the guys at Panic discovered. Airplay itself (the network protocol) is NOT involved in this process. The encoded data is transferred as packetized data across the Lightning bus, where it is decoded by the ARM SoC and pushed out over HDMI.

    This system essentially allows us to output to any device on the planet, irregardless of the endpoint bus (HDMI, DisplayPort, and any future inventions) by simply producing the relevant adapter that plugs into the Lightning port. Since the iOS device doesn't care about the hardware hanging off the other end, you don't need a new iPad or iPhone when a new A/V connector hits the market.

    Certain people are aware that the quality could be better and others are working on it. For the time being, the quality was deemed to be suitably acceptable. Given the dynamic nature of the system (and the fact that the firmware is stored in RAM rather then ROM), updates **will** be made available as a part of future iOS updates. When this will happen I can't say for anonymous reasons, but these concerns haven't gone unnoticed.

    1. Re:There is no Airplay involved. by TheSync · · Score: 1

      By the way, especially with 4k resolutions coming along, I would not be surprised if we see more Consumer Electronics moving to compressed-mode interfaces (although preferably at bit rates with low visual loss).

      The truth is that most content you see on television was compressed into DNxHD at 145 Mbps for editing, then compressed to MPEG-2 50 Mbps long-GOP for playback.

      And of course if you are watching on a Blu-Ray, there was an H.264 compression to 25-35 Mbps, on broadcast TV an MPEG-2 compression to 10-15 Mbps, on cable or satellite and MPEG-2 compression to 6-12 Mbps or H.264 compression to 4-8 Mbps (and I'm talking HD rates here - SD is much less).

      HD uncompressed is around 1.5 Gbps. The only time we ever use uncompressed interfaces in broadcast is over coaxial cables using HD-SDI between devices - we almost never store uncompressed. Uncompressed representations flow through broadcast production switchers, but only because of the need for ultra-low latency.

    2. Re:There is no Airplay involved. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "It's just a high speed serial interface"

      So why not simply use USB?

    3. Re:There is no Airplay involved. by Rakishi · · Score: 2

      And this is superior to having an adapter that converts HDMI (or whatever the default output is) to 'protocol X" how exactly?

      I mean, you still need hardware in the adapter and the adapter only has one output port so what's the advantage? It seems like utter pointless over engineering, the sort you get when a company loses touch with consumers.

    4. Re:There is no Airplay involved. by JDG1980 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The reason why this adapter exists is because Lightning is simply not capable of streaming a "raw" HDMI signal across the cable. Lightning is a serial bus. There is no clever wire multiplexing involved.

      The HD-SDI standard can transmit a full, uncompressed HD signal over a serial connection. Why wasn't that used?

      Certain people are aware that the quality could be better and others are working on it. For the time being, the quality was deemed to be suitably acceptable.

      Any level of compression artifacts introduced at this level is unacceptable. We understand that HD video has to be compressed to fit into a sane amount of space, but up until now all cable formats have been lossless – this is a regression.

      And why does your marketing literature say 1080p output when that is clearly not true?

    5. Re:There is no Airplay involved. by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      USB lacks high speed.

    6. Re:There is no Airplay involved. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Did you even look at the size of the connector on that thing?

    7. Re:There is no Airplay involved. by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      Probably because USB is slow.
      USB 2.0 is 280 Mbit/s (35 MB/s)

      USB 3.0 might be an alternative in the future, but it's fairly new. Then again, the USB 2.0 subsystem is used on iPhone 5, so the actual interface layer is lightning in order to allow it to be smaller.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    8. Re:There is no Airplay involved. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now that I see how it works thanks to this great explanation it would be cool to utilize multiple ARM cores and multicast the data through a coresight built network with its Qos capabilities. I hack away on DirectShow filters day in and day out where I work and I can tell you nothing seems to go perfect with the software encoding. If I could manage all the encoding through a series of these it really would be a lightning fast system. The bottleneck I see for the 1080p would have to do with the H264 transcoding as you would not have smooth playback for a video stream so compressed. No one wants to store terabytes of uncompressed video and unless you have a recent mac the hardware acceleration leaves some to be desired. While Apple is busy figuring things out with their integrated graphics controllers we are given thunderbolt, which is fine with me. The firmware being stored in RAM is really slick- if a device was created with multiple thunderbolt ports and you could dial in each one with whatever encoding or output format (for instance SDI) you wanted that would be the cat's pajamas. I can think of a million uses for high speed serial connections. Enough with the car analogies I'm convinced with the right setup you could RUN a car on lightning bolt connectors if they were configurable.

    9. Re:There is no Airplay involved. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      irregardless

      Just.... no.

      captcha: decorum

    10. Re:There is no Airplay involved. by makomk · · Score: 1

      USB 2.0 is 480 Mbit/s, which is more than fast enough to stream compressed video over - in fact, the video compression and decompression hardware they're using almost certainly caps out at far below that bitrate. (For comparison, the maximum video bitrate supported on Blu-Ray DVDs is 40 Mbit/s and they're generally considered to be relatively high bitrate).

    11. Re:There is no Airplay involved. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The HD-SDI standard can transmit a full, uncompressed HD signal over a serial connection. Why wasn't that used?

      Because it uses a coaxial cable that is not suitable for use in a mobile phone? And if the phone had the capability to output HD-SDI you would need a very expensive adapter to make HDMI out of that.

      And why does your marketing literature say 1080p output when that is clearly not true?

      The output signal from the adapter is 1080p. Just check with your connected TV and it will tell you. The fact that the generated image is in a lower resolution does not change this. Also you may still watch movie video output at true 1080p if you are playing back 1080p material.

    12. Re:There is no Airplay involved. by Trogre · · Score: 1

      The fact that the generated image is in a lower resolution does not change this. Also you may still watch movie video output at true 1080p if you are playing back 1080p material.

      *confused*

      You first say that the generated image (presumably the picture that is presented on the 1080p signal) is "in a lower resolution", then you say that one may still watch movie video output at true 1080p.

      So which is it?

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    13. Re:There is no Airplay involved. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a moron.

      Google an image. Make the image full screen. Your resolution of your monitor didn't change, but the picture is not the resolution of your monitor.

      If you are watching a 1080p video on your phone, it is still 1080p, just shrunk down, so when you output it, digital is digital, if the source video file is 1080p, the output is 1080p.

    14. Re:There is no Airplay involved. by Trogre · · Score: 1

      *sigh* thank you for that. A little defensive tonight, are we?

      So, your example above suggests that that this thing puts out whatever is put into it, right? If it actually does that, then there's no issue here. However your previous post, assuming you're the same AC, seriously calls this into question: ...we use the same hardware to encode an output stream on the fly and fire it down the Lightning cable straight into the ARM SoC...

      Certain people are aware that the quality could be better and others are working on it. For the time being, the quality was deemed to be suitably acceptable.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    15. Re:There is no Airplay involved. by lyran74 · · Score: 1

      Lightning is simply not capable of streaming a "raw" HDMI signal across the cable.

      Why not? Handling raw 1080p video for an interface released in 2012 seems like a minimum to me.

  36. Google Nexus 7 tops iPad in Japan: Trend?--CNET by tepples · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Based on a [December] survey of 2,400 consumer electronics stores in Japan, Google's Nexus 7 tablet had 44.4 percent of the market versus the iPad's 40.1 percent, according to Nikkei, Japan's largest business daily."[1]

    [1] Brooke Crothers. "Google Nexus 7 tops iPad in Japan: Is this a trend?" CNET, January 16, 2013.

    So how did I fail?

    1. Re:Google Nexus 7 tops iPad in Japan: Trend?--CNET by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You fail because you made a blanket statement of "Nexus outsells iPad!" and then your link describes it happening in one country - Japan - during one trend period.

    2. Re:Google Nexus 7 tops iPad in Japan: Trend?--CNET by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      So how did I fail?

      In exactly the way I predicted. By failing to show Nexus tablets outselling the iPad.

      "...in Japan, in one month of last year" isn't the same thing. And I knew all you had was "In Japan".

    3. Re:Google Nexus 7 tops iPad in Japan: Trend?--CNET by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you repeat that same survey on Apple stores, guess what the outcome will be. Come on, please use your brain before spouting biased surveys.

  37. HDCP license by tepples · · Score: 1

    I was under the impression that adding a micro-HDMI output to a device that can play videos rented from Google Play required an HDCP license, and those weren't exactly free.

  38. Re:Stop the presses! by thegarbz · · Score: 2

    Stop the presses! The are scaling 1024x768 content to 1600x900, and there are MPEG artifacts happening as a result?!?! The deuce you say! There's never artifacts when you scale things! Never, I say!

    Ahh I see. You must be from marketing. How clever of you to put a positive spin on the story that the result is they now must scale 1080p down to 1600x900, a notable step backwards from their previous design which could do native 1080p uncompressed.

    Maybe it's not marketing, maybe it's just reality distortion.

  39. SE/30 HDs by bored · · Score: 1

    To reply to myself.. The harddrives were quantum's. Here is an article in infoworld from 89 about it. Titled "Mac IICX, SE/30 users report drive failures"

    http://books.google.com/books?id=wDAEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT32&lpg=PT32&dq=mac+SE30+hard+drive+failures&source=bl&ots=O-OI7Qd-Z2&sig=Wd2zMHjgAu5Afr0NhURcAoRqwUc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6L4yUYfaAo2LrQH32oC4AQ&ved=0CHEQ6AEwCQ

  40. Re:Apple sucks sheeple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Baaaaaa baaaaaaaa...

    Steeeve Steeeve

  41. Slashdot, disappointing! by tsj5j · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is so extremely disappointing. The most informative post here describing exactly what's going on gets modded as Overrated. On the other hand, a whole SLEW of misinformation and "Apple hate" gets modded +5 Informative.

    Really, sometimes I feel that the majority of Slashdot's posters are high school students who haven't learnt the basics of research and verifying information before shooting off a comment.

    P.S. I'm neither pro nor anti Apple. I disagree with their consumer lock-ins but appreciate that they sparked off the smartphone revolution and development.

    1. Re:Slashdot, disappointing! by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      The comment you are replying to is copied from the story, and even referenced in the sumary. Overrated might be the wrong mod, the correct one would be redundant.

  42. Re:Apple sucks sheeple... by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

    I'm still waiting for the uber hdmi.

    --
    -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
  43. Re:Apple sucks sheeple... by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

    Yes, one should never buy a product that others do not like.

    --
    -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
  44. I think you don't drive a manual car by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Not only that, but they can shift faster than 95% of people can shift a manual transmission"

    I suspect from this you don't drive a manual car. When I see a *potential* problem ahead that will cause me to accelerate or decelerate, I drop it down into 3 or 4 BEFORE I make the actual maneuver so the engine has time to get its revs up. If I need to react the car is already in gear and revved to match. Likewise if I see an overtaking opportunity, I'll drop it down to be ready to accelerate.

    So automatic drivers think its about the time to switch gears and its really not. The gear change is done long before it's needed, and sometimes JUST IN CASE it's needed. The delay is the engine adjusting its revs, not the gear change.

    There's other things I miss about my manual car too. If I want to steadily slow the car without the brake lights (to prevent a que of cars behind me panic braking), I drop it down a gear and steadily slow it down. They don't see a brake light and panic, and I get to slow the car and drop into the slower lane smoothly. On an automatic, the lights come on, they don't know if I'm sharp braking or smooth braking and it's panic time behind me.

    Then there's the clutch. You think its just to smooth the power on and power off. But it isn't, if the road is slippy easing the clutch on lets me test the grip. In slow speed traffic coasting in neutral with occasional partial lift of the clutch to keep it going is an easy way to drive. It's as much a driving control as any other.

    I've tried quite a few automatics here, the VVTs truely suck, the shifters have the engine lag, none comes close, but people don't want to learn stick these days, so it's difficult to get the model I want with stick.

    1. Re: I think you don't drive a manual car by JonBoy47 · · Score: 1

      The above quoted dual clutch shift times include the computer autonomously rev matching all shifts in both automatic and manual shift mode using the E-throttle for smoothness of shift.

  45. Small bit of trivia... by slew · · Score: 1

    HDCP (the drm stuff) is essentially licenced from Intel. Intel only basically agreed to allow HDCP to be used on DVI and HDMI (originally) and only reluctantly allowed it for DisplayPort only after Intel's competing technolgy went bust (and vesa basically threatened to use another drm scheme which intel would then have to license).

    Since it's unlikely that intel would have licenced HDCP to Apple for this purpose, it's likely that Apple was forced to use their own drm scheme between the lightning port to the hdmi dongle to comply with the licencing requirement for external monitor connections and the only way they could deploy it was to have a chip made to implement it or put it in software on an ARM chip.

  46. Re:Hint: removing widely unused feature is simpler by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if you need for some reason real 1080p streaming physically from an iPad you can always buy an iPad 2 or 3

    You are an incurable retard. It looks like you've been sucking Apple's cock for so long, and taking it so deep, that its pressure has forced your brain out of your ears.

  47. SlimPort by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nuff said

  48. Re:Stop the presses! by tlambert · · Score: 2

    Wow, not only did you not read the article, you didn't even look at the pictures, did you?

    I looked at the pictures. I saw artifacts from scaling 1024x768 4:3 aspect ratio content to 1600x900 16:9 aspect ratio content from source material encoded at 1024x768, with intentional watermarking to identify the iTunes account that the data was pulled down from. Do you often watch your television with a microscope?

    The cable is advertised as doing "up to 1080". It does not.

    I'm not sure I buy the information in the blog post. Specifically, the thing that drives the EDID negotiation is the display device; it states what resolutions it supports, and the device driving the display picks from that list and advertises it back to the display. If the EDID negotiation in the display device isn't working correctly (many don't), or the information communicated over the input port is just plain incorrect, then it's going to negotiate down using the set of defaults that the device providing the input signal uses when the display device fails to adhere to the standard.

    I've already pointed out that there are a large number of Samsung Televisions which will not negotiate EDID on inactive channels. This causes problems with Samsung Chromebooks when used with these televisions, unless you hook them up to the default HDMI input so that the input channel is active at the time. Ideally, the Linux video stack would workaround this problem by reattempting to negotiate an EDID periodically until it was either successful, or hell froze over, whichever came first. When Google was working on the Chromebooks and first encountered the problem, Samsung was able to supply beta firmware updates for the Television to allow the negotiation to happen on unselected but electrically active channels.

    So those numbers in that blog post are for the EDID information being advertised by the display, and it's no wonder that the display is only offering 1600x900 (I would not be surprised if instead of a Samsung TV, the problem device was a DELL monitor instead).

    Here's another TV that has the same problem as some of the Samsung TV's; it's a Kogan KGN1080P32VAA, and it actually fails to advertise the correct EDID information at all. You can work around the problem by stuffing fake EDID information into the nVidia card driver, but it's not at all surprising that Apple doesn't provide you with the ability to do this with their cable: https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/478250/working-around-tvs-with-defective-edids-useedid-works-but-kills-hdmi-audio/

    Alternately, you can continue to buy crappy displays with busted firmware, and workaround the handshake issue by buying a box like this one: http://www.vidabox.com/products_dr_doctor_hdmi.php to let you set the handshake see by the Apple cable to be correct.

    Did you look at the picture? Those are not scaling artifacts: there is noise around edges. Those look like artifacts from MPEG or a similar compression algorithm. If it was just scaling, it would introduce aliasing patterns, which is not what they are talking about.

    Unless they ripped the content themselves from a DVD to load onto the iPad Mini, I'm going to go with them having either downloaded a torrent (notoriously bad compression artifacts), or having downloaded it from the iTunes store (720P, always scaled, 1024x768, different aspect ratio from what was being displayed).

    Next thing I know, you'll be claiming that Apple didn't replace all the already transcoded content on the Inktomi CDN with new, higher resolution content over night!

    What does that have to do with this discussion?

    It's all encoded at 1024x768 4:3 aspect ratio; that's what it has

  49. Re:Apple sucks sheeple... by crutchy · · Score: 1

    that's just what they call ultra hdmi in sweden

  50. Am I missing the point? by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 2

    Really, I wonder if I'm missing the point of this outcry. I think putting a chip on the dongle to offload the decoding of video streams to HDMI to be a really elegant and scalable solution; possibly even scalable to the point of doing 4K video with a more powerful ARM chip.

    The bandwidth of the Lightning connector itself is easily in the same range as USB 3 (10Gbbps) and the limiting factor is the hardware in the iPad/iPhone which is limited to USB 2.0 spec type speeds across that connector. There's no technical reason that future devices won't up that to USB 3 speeds, but the chipsets just aren't there yet. Once upped into that range, there's no reason that uncompressed 1080p video can't be pushed through that interface (approximately 3Gbps at max throughput, FYI). Again, the limit isn't the Lightning connector but rather the chipsets in the current range of devices. I don't have all the specs off-hand, but it's quite likely that the Lightning connector is actually capable of faster speeds, but the standards for that don't exist yet.

    Besides, this is where I think I'm missing the point: Why the hoopla? This is a consumer-grade device (iPad/iPhone) and we have some guy who's got his ass chapped by the fact that it can't output uncompressed 1080p video through it's current connector? Uhm... OK. The 30-pin adapter got around this by having discrete video output on its own pins... the Lightning connector is purely a data connection. Yes, this change to only being able to get compressed video out at USB 2 speeds does seem to be a bit of a step backward, but again this is a consumer-grade device and should be treated as such. If you're using it for playback of video that must be 1080p in all it's uncompressed and perfect glory then you're really missing the point and probably need... Oh I don't know... a laptop with HDMI out? Or Thunderbolt if you're really an Apple fan?

    I'm not an Apple apologist; I am typing this on an Alienware laptop running Ubuntu and my phone is a Galaxy Nexus... yes I have a Macbook Pro as well and it's a great laptop, but I in no way a fanboy. I just realize that this is a pretty elegant solution that's really scalable and interesting... but you have to remember this is for a consumer-grade device, not professional. This is for displaying your holiday pictures on a big screen, or playing back your holiday videos to the great chagrin of your friends... this isn't for reviewing takes between shots of the latest movie blockbuster... Apple sells better hardware for that. So do many other manufacturers.

    All that being said; there's no technical reason that future generations of the iPad/iPhone won't be able to output 1080p uncompressed through Lightning... the limit is not the new connector but rather what the device itself can output. This dongle design is actually a really good idea... faster ARM CPU in there and you've got massive scalability.

    1. Re:Am I missing the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Video IS data, you moron.

  51. My dog is right there by SuperKendall · · Score: 0

    The only person it doesn't suck for is someone who doesn't use it, and therefore has no dog in the fight.

    I actually do use video from an iPad at times. That's how I know it's too fiddly a proposition for most people.

    For me it doesn't matter though because I have an iPad 3 that still includes the original dock connector. There are millions of these to be had, cheaper now even if you buy used or refurb. Any of the dwindling number of people who NEED 1080p from a tablet can simply get one of these instead of a newer tablet with a Lightning connector.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  52. Anonymous Coward posted this by nbahi15 · · Score: 1

    An anonymous coward on Panic's blog posted this. They elude to that fact they work for Apple and have knowledge about this technology.

    Airplay is not involved in the operation of this adapter.
    It is true that the kernel the adapter SoC boots is based off of XNU, but that’s where the similarities between iOS and the adapter firmware end. The firmware environment doesn’t even run launchd. There’s no shell in the image, there’s no utilities (analogous to what we used to call the “BSD Subsystem” in Mac OS X). It boots straight into a daemon designed to accept incoming data from the host device, decode that data stream, and output it through the A/V connectors. There’s a set of kernel modules that handle the low level data transfer and HDMI output, but that’s about it. I wish I could offer more details then this but I’m posting as AC for a damned good reason.
    The reason why this adapter exists is because Lightning is simply not capable of streaming a “raw” HDMI signal across the cable. Lightning is a serial bus. There is no clever wire multiplexing involved. Contrary to the opinions presented in this thread, we didn’t do this to screw the customer. We did this to specifically shift the complexity of the “adapter” bit into the adapter itself, leaving the host hardware free of any concerns in regards to what was hanging off the other end of the Lightning cable. If you wanted to produce a Lightning adapter that offered something like a GPIB port (don’t laugh, I know some guys doing exactly this) on the other end, then the only support you need to implement on the iDevice is in software- not hardware. The GPIB adapter contains all the relevant Lightning -> GPIB circuitry.
    It’s vastly the same thing with the HDMI adapter. Lightning doesn’t have anything to do with HDMI at all. Again, it’s just a high speed serial interface. Airplay uses a bunch of hardware h264 encoding technology that we’ve already got access to, so what happens here is that we use the same hardware to encode an output stream on the fly and fire it down the Lightning cable straight into the ARM SoC the guys at Panic discovered. Airplay itself (the network protocol) is NOT involved in this process. The encoded data is transferred as packetized data across the Lightning bus, where it is decoded by the ARM SoC and pushed out over HDMI.
    This system essentially allows us to output to any device on the planet, irregardless of the endpoint bus (HDMI, DisplayPort, and any future inventions) by simply producing the relevant adapter that plugs into the Lightning port. Since the iOS device doesn’t care about the hardware hanging off the other end, you don’t need a new iPad or iPhone when a new A/V connector hits the market.
    Certain people are aware that the quality could be better and others are working on it. For the time being, the quality was deemed to be suitably acceptable. Given the dynamic nature of the system (and the fact that the firmware is stored in RAM rather then ROM), updates **will** be made available as a part of future iOS updates. When this will happen I can’t say for anonymous reasons, but these concerns haven’t gone unnoticed.

  53. Whoops, I was wrong. by Sloppy · · Score: 1

    Bummer, I was wrong. 1201(a)(3)(2). If DRM is applied without the authority of the copyright holder, then it is not circumvention to defeat it.

    Everybody, please send along a statement whenever you share your home movies: "I grant authorization to all parties, to apply technological measures which limit access to this work. I do not grant authorization to any party, to bypass or descramble any such measures."

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  54. Simple serial bus. by DrYak · · Score: 1

    The new connector isn't technically a connector. It's just a bus.
    It doesn't have any pin for any function (no audio, no video, no nothing), it only has data lines which speak to the electronics inside.

    The actually I/O isn't handled by the connector. It's handled by a chip embed in the things you are connecting.
    Want a (micro-) USB connector ? But a USB chip in the cable.
    Want a video out port ? Put a chip generating video inside the AV adapter (exactly as in TFA).
    Want compatibility with old iPhones ? Put a large chip which output audio, video, usb, and tons of other things like the original iPod connector - you can actually use the same output component as the original ipod, except they are not soldered on the phone's mainboard, they are piloted by an embed chip which talks to the phone over the serial line. (That's also how they can justify the expensive price on the lightning-to-apple-dock adapter: it's not a dumb cable it has all the signal generator chip inside)

    This is similar to they way a ISA/PCI/PCIe bus works in a desktop PC or PCCard in a laptop. Want more USB or Firewire ? Just put a PCI card with more ports. Want video out? Add extra graphic card. And so on.

    After they made such a big deal of the new dock connector

    Apple has 2 massive adantages :

    1. Electronics is moved out of the device.
    Imagine that suddenly USB is phased out of market and replace by a new and incompatible "Magic Bus Plus".
    - With Apple Dock connector: oops, sorry we don't have MBP lines on the connector. we can't do it now. (The only solution would be to deprecate some older unused lines and put MBP lines on it in newer phones. Older phones don't support MBP, but newer support it, at the loss of some other functionality. Example: over time FireWire was removed, and Video capability was added).
    - With Lightning connector: well, put a chip supporting MBP inside the MBP cable, duh...

    2. Apple control.
    Of course everything is authenticated, signed, etc.
    - With Apple Dock: any device can tap the useful signals in the dock (audio, control, etc.) to build whatever device they want. Apple can still try to sue them if they didn't license their stuff, but good luck suing asian no-name brands
    - if any device want to talk to any apple iGadget, it needs to obtain the necessary keys. Apple sells them for a price and if they don't like a gadget, they can revoke its keys. After the next iTunes sync, the device won't work anymore.

    Now this has a massive PROBLEM for Apple:
    iGadget are portable device. They are slow.

    Whereas in my example PCIe is a rather fast bus and you can power lot of useful electronics (even graphic cards), the lightning connector is slow (that's actually pretty normal for a phone. in the embed world where I2C is still used a lot).
    It might be a lot faster than other typical phone connection, but it still pales in comparison to Thunderbold (which packs a display-port stream in addition to 2 PCIe channels).

    It can't tansmit high quality digital video. The only possibility is for the iPhone to compress it and for the chip inside the adapter to decompress. Hence the limited resolution (1600x900) and mpeg artifacts.

    For better video, the only possible solution is to wait for future versions of both the phone and the adapter speaking a much faster version of the protocol.

    It's exactly the same situation as USB flash sticks: Yup in theory you could already use a USB bus to access mass storage back in the USB 1.x days. But it was fucking slow and useless for anything more than emergency access to some files.
    You needed to wait until USB 2.0 to have decent speed at which point attaching mass storage device was practical, and now USB 3.0 even made it interestingly competitive.

    Samsung's modified micro USB connector does uncompressed full 1080p HDMI

    That's because said connector can also speak MHL.
    MHL is a specially designed standard protocol to handle multimedia in

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]