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China Using 'State Secrets' Label To Hide Pollution

Posted by timothy on from the where-sunshine-laws-don't-shine dept.

eldavojohn writes "More problems have surfaced as people attempt to bring soil pollution problems to light in China. From the article: 'When Pan sued the Hebei Department of Environmental Protection in 2011, he was given access to the environmental impact assessment that the environment ministry claimed it had done in the village. Pan discovered that the assessment, carried out by the Chinese Academy of Meteorological Sciences, had names of people who had left the village two decades previously and even a person who had been dead for two years — all "expressing favor" for the project. Pan surveyed 100 people in his village, showing them the purported environmental impact study. The majority of them gave him written statements that declared: "I've never seen this form," according to documents seen by Reuters.' Reuters has also discovered that China uses 'state secrets' labels to hide environmental studies and pollution numbers as well as using strong arm tactics to silence residents attempting to do their own studies."

14 of 149 comments (clear)

  1. I'm only surprised they bothered to label it by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Come on, the issue here isn't abuse of a state secrets process.

    The issue is the Chinese government (national level) is not based upon any principles of openness. They hide anything and everything that might threaten their place in power. The only time it comes out is when trying to keep it secret would hurt even more (i.e when a coverup is exposed).

    --
    http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
    1. Re:I'm only surprised they bothered to label it by AK+Marc · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Just like Marx wrote, isn't it? He was all for using opium to delude the masses. And what country went to war to avoid opium? China.

      Wait, so because China refused opium, they are following Marx by doing the opposite? Seems the US is more Marxist in that regard, with drugs everywhere.

      --
      Learn to love Alaska
    2. Re:I'm only surprised they bothered to label it by anagama · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree with you that China should clean up its act. But what bugged me was the parent poster's seeming attitude that China was different somehow. I should have quoted the comment more fully:

      The issue is the Chinese government (national level) is not based upon any principles of openness. They hide anything and everything that might threaten their place in power. The only time it comes out is when trying to keep it secret would hurt even more (i.e when a coverup is exposed).

      I would have no issue with the comment if it read "The issue with government in general" -- or "The issue is the Chinese government (national level), like that of most, is not based ..."

      It strikes me as hypocritical to suggest that China has some distinctive secrecy evil that one's own government steadfastly avoids (specifically, that secrecy is usually about protection from embarrassment, liability, or corruption/special industry favors). It's like a crack head denigrating a heroin addict as a dope fiend. Maybe I read too much into it, but that was my impression.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
  2. Re:Lousy REDACTED. by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In the USA, most government information IS open. But don't try to find out what chemicals frackers might be pumping down oil wells and into your groundwater. THEY are very much protected from public scrutiny.

  3. First I was surprised by arielCo · · Score: 1, Insightful

    At first I was surprised that they even cared about public opinion at all. Then I remembered that this is SE Asia, where the importance of "saving face" is taught along with potty training. Remember the 1996 rocket crash in China? A small village was razed, they detained journalists for hours, and days later Xinhua only admitted to six deaths, blaming failure on a "sudden gust of wind". Then you have the tragically comical DPRK.

    --
    This post contains no rudeness or derision of any kind. All arguments are friendly. Terms and exclusions may apply.
  4. This will only work by kilodelta · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Until China starts experiencing a massive die off due to the pollution. Eventually they'll probably wake up to the fact and require manufacturing to install preventive measure. By that point manufacturing in China will be as expensive as it is in the United States. I wonder what big business will do then?

    1. Re:This will only work by GeneralTurgidson · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Africa

    2. Re:This will only work by Runaway1956 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually - China is working on a controlled die off anyway. They got to many people. They have limited the right to reproduce. One couple, one child. That is not a sustainable birth rate. China is intentionally decreasing their population, right now, as we sit and chat about it. A few catastrophes aren't going to deter them.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
  5. Predictable Replies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Expected replies for China article on /.

    1. "It's not like ______ didn't do it before/isn't doing it too."
    2. "Why is this news, we expect this from China."
    3. "So what, it's their country. We have no right to judge."

    Let us embrace such wisdom and apply it consistently, for US/Europe articles too!
    No country should bear criticism on Slashdot!
    Join me in extending these fallacies EVERYWHERE my brothers and sisters!

    1. Re:Predictable Replies by kheldan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How about this reply:

      Between China and India they have, what, somewhere between a third and half the population of the world? Has it occurred to anyone else that between them with their more or less uncontrolled polluting, they're undoing everything that every other industrialized country is doing to reverse global warming?

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    2. Re:Predictable Replies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      From the horse's mouth,

      http://www.worldcoal.org/resources/coal-statistics/

      And all the envirowhackos are protesting "nukular" while coal usage alone increased 10% between 2010 and 2011.

            7,600,000,000 tons of coal, half mined and burned in China.

      So all the bullshit that politicians talk about "limiting Global Warming" is just that - bullshit and hot air. What is even more sad, is the envirowhackos protesting things like Transcanada pipeline (tarsands) while completely ignoring the real problem - coal.

      Someone said there is enough oil, gas and coal to turn Earth into another Venus. I guess full steam ahead on that plan!

      In 2011 coal was the fastest growing form of energy outside renewables. Its share in global primary energy consumption increased to 30.3% - the highest since 1969.

    3. Re:Predictable Replies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Between China and India they have, what, somewhere between a third and half the population of the world? Has it occurred to anyone else that between them with their more or less uncontrolled polluting, they're undoing everything that every other industrialized country is doing to reverse global warming?

      YES. This. Precisely this. Whenever I hear the environmentalists spout their screed about conservation, cutbacks and carbon I want to smack them upside the head for completely ignoring what's going in China and India. They either take the rest of us for complete fools or are fools themselves. Either way, I want nothing to do with them. However, just in case there are some out there reading, riddle me this. The Chinese and Indian governments have already said that they will do essentially nothing on climate change. They want their 100 years of pollution and development and have basically told the environmentalists in the United States and Europe to go f*** themselves. There is zero chance that the Chinese and Indians are going to tell their people, "We know that you want that house with the two car garage, a gas guzzler vehicle and that big ass TV, but we cannot let you have these things because of climate change." They would have a revolution on their hands or what the Chinese call "social instability". So any sacrifices that you greens make here in the United States and Europe are meaningless as regards global temperature rises from greenhouse gas emissions. In other words, you're wasting your time because China and India will never agree to cooperate in any meaningful ways. You stand on principles if you want to, but I'd rather just enjoy what time we have left.

    4. Re:Predictable Replies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Here's how Slashdot works:

      Article about US:
      1. Provide insightful criticism of US -- get modded Insightful
      2. Replies to 1 deflecting to another country modded Troll

      Article about almost any other country:
      1. Provide insightful criticism of that country -- 50/50 chance of Insightful/Troll
      2. Replies to 1 deflecting to US modded Insightful

      It seems like only the rational people congregate in the US articles.

    5. Re:Predictable Replies by furbyhater · · Score: 3, Insightful

      At least the environmentalists in your country get up from their ass and try to improve SOMETHING. You can't really expect them to move to China in a completely foreign environment to protest coal plants there. What are you doing, except sitting on your ass working, consuming and trying to get everyone into the same hopeless and jaded state of mind that you are in? Congratulations, genius!