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Andy Rubin Steps Down As Chief of Google Android

Nerval's Lobster writes "Andy Rubin is stepping down as head of Google's Android division, according to the company. 'Having exceeded even the crazy ambitious goals we dreamed of for Android — and with a really strong leadership team in place — Andy's decided it's time to hand over the reins and start a new chapter at Google,' Google CEO Larry Page wrote in a March 13 note on Google's official blog. 'Going forward, Sundar Pichai will lead Android, in addition to his existing work with Chrome and Apps.' If Rubin had any other reasons for departing, the blog posting left them unexplained. Android has been activated on 750 million devices around the world, according to Google, on top of some 25 billion apps downloaded from the Google Play storefront. It remains to be seen whether 'start a new chapter at Google' is some sort of polite corporate euphemism for Rubin's eventual departure from the company, or if he really is taking over another project or division. Page suggested in his blog posting that Pichai 'will do a tremendous job doubling down on Android as we work to push the ecosystem forward,' which doesn't offer a lot about the operating system's future direction: Pichai does have direct control over three core platforms, raising the possibility that Google could try and exploit further crossovers between the three. But what form that will take is anyone's guess."

156 comments

  1. my 0.000001 bitcoin by roman_mir · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When I am asked whether somebody should be moved from their current position, where I know they are doing a very good job to something else, which may seem to be more prestigious, I generally advise to increase their pay and keep them in their current job.

    I am not saying anything...

    1. Re:my 0.000001 bitcoin by Dishevel · · Score: 2, Funny

      I am not saying anything...

      Yes.
      You did.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    2. Re:my 0.000001 bitcoin by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      What is it? It could be a 100 different things, given what I think about people who are good in their jobs, it could be that somebody else doesn't think the same. It could be that somebody didn't want to pay more. It could be that somebody thought that the results weren't all that great. It could be that the person in question really didn't want to continue there regardless of the money. There are too many variables, so what am I saying?

    3. Re:my 0.000001 bitcoin by Tough+Love · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Keep in mind that Sundar Pichai is the Chromeos guy. This is reason to fear.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    4. Re:my 0.000001 bitcoin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It does not matter what you said.
      I merely pointed out that you were indeed saying something. Even if you were being obtuse about it.

      I feel the same way about people who say things like. "You really should blah blah blah blah ... I'm just saying"
      They are not "Just Saying" they are telling you you should be doing something or that they think you are wrong.
      You are not "Not saying anything" you are definitely communicating.

    5. Re:my 0.000001 bitcoin by DragonTHC · · Score: 1

      Yeah, Google should have snatched up Steve Kondik.

      --
      They're using their grammar skills there.
    6. Re:my 0.000001 bitcoin by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind that Sundar Pichai is the Chromeos guy. This is reason to fear.

      Also fear those Googlers who think it is OK to downmod critical comments. Down that slope lie the likes of Microsoft and Apple.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    7. Re:my 0.000001 bitcoin by symbolset · · Score: 1

      Steve Sinofsky is available I hear, and Stephen Elop may be soon. Sinofsky has experience in merging a mobile and a desktop OS into something unusable. Elop has experience in... um... turning around a thriving concern?

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    8. Re:my 0.000001 bitcoin by mjwx · · Score: 1

      When I am asked whether somebody should be moved from their current position, where I know they are doing a very good job to something else, which may seem to be more prestigious, I generally advise to increase their pay and keep them in their current job.

      Erm, he wasn't removed. He stepping down. Bit of a difference there. He could just want a different job.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    9. Re:my 0.000001 bitcoin by BasilBrush · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Actually mod abuse is lead by Googlers and Android fanboys.

    10. Re:my 0.000001 bitcoin by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      The vast majority of executive moves are publicised as if they were the choice of the exec. An awful lot of them are actually pushed rather than jump.

      As this guy was a founder of Android Inc, and nothing is being said about hat he's going to do next, it seems most likely he either jumped, or something has happened within Google that makes his position no longer acceptable.

      It *could* be that he's moving on to some secret project in Google. But Google aren't as secretive as Apple. They'd probably say at least what area he would be working in.

    11. Re:my 0.000001 bitcoin by Kelbear · · Score: 1

      Medical/family/death issues are also possible. Or maybe he just wants to enjoy the fruits of his labor and roll around in his money for awhile.

  2. Good. by uniquename72 · · Score: 2

    I use a Transformer Prime w/ keyboard dock as my primary laptop. Thanks to a great app ecosystem, it's more useful than a ($1300!) Chromebook.

    Here's hoping Pichai works toward realizing the potential of Android, and phases out Chrome as an "operating system."

    1. Re:Good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The $1300 Chromebook is merely a development platform for the future (Chrome + Android touch). Can't wait to see what they can do when its ready. $250 Samsung Chromebook - merge with $400 Nexus 10. Could make an amazing sub $500 device.

    2. Re:Good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use my galaxy s3 with a bluetooth keyboard and find that keyboard text entry hasn't been this bad since the typewriter. I'm one of those guys who can type about 100WPM with 80% accuracy or so, which means I delete a lot. This has never been a problem until android. For example I could be typing up an email and noticed I made a typo a few words back. So I hold down the backspace key to get back to that position but then the way android text input is setup it decides to accelerate the deleting. Instead of delete at a rate of characters, it deletes word by word and then it just clears all the text. On a standard desktop, Ctrl+Z would solve this, but undo doesn't exist in most android text entries. So now I've developed the behavior of holding down the backspace key for only a few hundred milliseconds at a time. Google docs^H^H^H^H drive is one of the few apps that supports undo but typing in there and cutting and pasting is really clunky.

    3. Re:Good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good luck with that. Pichai is a way bigger asshole than Rubin at its worst.

      Sundar Pichai is the utter asshole whose incompetence resulted in the shutdown of Google's Atlanta office.

      --
      Brandon Downey

    4. Re:Good. by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      You better hope the plan isn't to make Android more Chrome like then.

  3. All maximized all the time by tepples · · Score: 1

    I use a Transformer Prime w/ keyboard dock as my primary laptop. Thanks to a great app ecosystem, it's more useful than a ($1300!) Chromebook.

    Can a docked Transformer Prime display two things side-by-side yet? Android's policy of all maximized all the time is one of the things keeping me on my aging netbook.

    1. Re:All maximized all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how about this:
      android floating apps

      this is a samsung only thing, but someone could get it working on other android devices:
      galaxy note split screen

  4. Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Tough+Love · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Maybe Sundar Pichai will be less of an arrogant idiot about certain things:

        * Apps need a standard user interface way to exit. Really.

        * Locking the Nexus homescreen to portrait is idiotic. Really.

        * MTP looks great on paper, in practice it is dog slow and buggy. Back to the drawing board please.

        * Maps crashes all the time. Surely you know that. Fix it.

        * Pretending that Android is not Linux is intellectually dishonest.

        * Support for unlocking and root access is still half hearted.

        * Android is not a community project. Fix that.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    1. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The irony level of that post almost makes my head explode. Tough Love indeed!

    2. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Eponymous+Coward · · Score: 1

      Pretending that Android is not Linux is intellectually dishonest.

      Is there any reason why Android couldn't be built on top of a different operating system? Does the fact that it's sitting on top of Linux matter?

    3. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      * Pretending that Android is not Linux is intellectually dishonest.

      Pretending Android is Linux is intellectually dishonest. There is no reason that Android couldn't be built on top of any other kernel like FreeBSD, XNU etc...

    4. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not irony.

    5. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maps crashes all the time.

      Maps almost never crashes on me. And I use it a lot.

    6. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by blind+biker · · Score: 1

      * Locking the Nexus homescreen to portrait is idiotic. Really.

      Not a problem since 4.1.2

      MTP looks great on paper, in practice it is dog slow and buggy. Back to the drawing board please.

      I have to admit, I had nothing but grief because of MTP. It works with my Windows 7 laptop, but not with any other of my computers. And even when it works, it works poorly.

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    7. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Fallingcow · · Score: 1

      I'd settle for docs that don't read like they were written by the people who wrote the code, and any attention at all paid to their bugtracker.

      Getting rid of the goddamn stupid always-on-screen home and back buttons would be great, too. They're a usability nightmare. Go back to physical buttons, or some solution that doesn't cause so many accidental presses while also wasting screen real estate.

    8. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by chowdahhead · · Score: 1

      *There is a standard way to exit...it's called the home button. Really.

      *There could be an option to unlock the homescreen orientation, but only you and a hand-full of people would probably notice. Really.

      *MTP sucks...I'll give you that, though the monolithic data partition was the right thing to do. Something like Airdroid is probably the way to go. It's fast enough for most things over wifi, and if you use USB tethering with it, you can tranfer gigabytes in minutes. QtADB isn't bad either.

      *I think I've only seen maps crash once. Ever. Honest.

      *Given the amount of time Google has spent getting the Android pieces accepted into the mainline kernel source, I don't know how one could argue that they are pretending that Android isn't Linux.

      *Unlocking and relocking the bootloader, and rooting is absolutely perfect on the Nexus. Period. I'd say it's probably half-hearted on non-Google devices because that process sometimes wipes the DRM keys and you have to either flash a custom ROM or modify some root files to get that functionality back. There's nothing Google can do about that though.

      *It would be nice if Google would collaborate more with the community on merging patches and bug fixing, but I don't know that Android would survive solely as a community project. This industry is moving fast.

    9. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by DragonTHC · · Score: 1

      Should I tackle your brand of lunacy?

      * Apps need a standard user interface way to exit. Really.

      So you want them all to work the same way and look the same way?

      * Locking the Nexus homescreen to portrait is idiotic. Really.

      Which Nexus? My Nexus 7 isn't locked in portrait. Not since 4.2.1

      * MTP looks great on paper, in practice it is dog slow and buggy. Back to the drawing board please.

      It's done this way to provide a standard for all devices to be treated the same way regardless of software suite.

      * Maps crashes all the time. Surely you know that. Fix it.

      Not on any of the 5 android devices I've owned since my G1. Perhaps it's user error.

      * Pretending that Android is not Linux is intellectually dishonest.

      It uses the Linux kernel, and that's where it ends. All apps run in Dalvik. So it can't run normal Linux binaries.

      * Support for unlocking and root access is still half hearted.

      We have an amazing community who work for free on their own devices. Root and unlocking come soon enough.

      * Android is not a community project. Fix that.

      http://source.android.com/community/index.html I beg to differ.

      --
      They're using their grammar skills there.
    10. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      * Locking the Nexus homescreen to portrait is idiotic. Really.

      I like it. I don't get why I would want to look at my icons in portrait mode. If I am on the couch, or in orbit, I want my telephone icon to be at the bottom left of the screen as I expect.

    11. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      Apps need a standard user interface way to exit. Really.

      no, they don't. if you use android for more than 10s you understand that you just switch to whatever app you want, and let the OS manage the lifecycle of the application. go back to windows if you feel you need to exit an application.

      MTP looks great on paper, in practice it is dog slow and buggy. Back to the drawing board please.

      works fine on all devices i've ever used. much better than mounting and unmounting UMS ... and accessible from two devices at once.

      Maps crashes all the time. Surely you know that. Fix it.

      i can't recall maps ever crashing.

      Android is not a community project. Fix that.

      what's wrong with it now?

    12. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      * Locking the Nexus homescreen to portrait is idiotic. Really.

      Not a problem since 4.1.2

      probably referring to nexus phones, including the new n4, which do not rotate the home screen.

    13. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by DrXym · · Score: 1

      Largely it doesn't matter. User land is BSD based. Google could potentially shift the thing lock stock and barrel to some other kernel as long as they had the drivers for the new kernel. It's sort of happened already - PlayBook OS and BB10 run a ported Android subsystem over QNX. Apps largely have no reason to even care. I'm kind of surprised that nobody has ported Dalvik and the Android APIs that an app sees and made them run over a standard desktop.

    14. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by BillyGee · · Score: 1

      Apps need a standard user interface way to exit. Really.

      no, they don't. if you use android for more than 10s you understand that you just switch to whatever app you want, and let the OS manage the lifecycle of the application. go back to windows if you feel you need to exit an application.

      Except you know, all those applications that have incessant notifications and live a secret life when you're not looking, literally. Pou wants to be fed! Hey, I thought my kid exited that app...let me try...oh look, now it wants to play. Cute, Task Manager, kill kill kill. But why should I have to? Of course there isn't any way to disallow notifications per app either because that would go against the whole ad based ecosystem.

    15. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by DrXym · · Score: 1

      Apps need a standard user interface way to exit. Really.

      Most apps can be killed by opening the apps task manager and just swiping them away. It doesn't work for background services which are doing stuff like streaming or downloading so in those cases the app itself has to have an explicit action. Most apps do not need an explicit action.

      MTP looks great on paper, in practice it is dog slow and buggy. Back to the drawing board please.

      I expect this was forced by Microsoft going after people using FAT32 in their devices. Devices which don't have an external SD can use some other FS present a facade onto it via MTP. I do think it's a bit shit though, especially for archives since they must be copied off the drive before they can be opened.

      Pretending that Android is not Linux is intellectually dishonest.

      The kernel is a Linux kernel, the remainder is BSD. It would be equally valid to say it's BSD really. Not that I think anybody has been hiding the fact that there is a Linux kernel in there.

      Android is not a community project. Fix that.

      Tell that to the XDA and Cyanogenmod developers. Both attract substantial community development support.

    16. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Microlith · · Score: 1

      I beg to differ.

      The AOSP is a sorry excuse for a "community project." No forward looking development happens there, it's just a dumping ground for when Google is done developing the next revision internally, taking input exclusively from its OHA partners.

      I don't foresee this changing. Google likes the control too much.

    17. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Microlith · · Score: 1

      Tell that to the XDA and Cyanogenmod developers. Both attract substantial community development support.

      XDA is mostly a script kiddie haven, where the GPL is violated regularly and people do things without thinking much about it. Cyanogenmod is a great project, but that does not make Android a community project, which it is not.

      Google would actually have to be open with future Android development for it to truly be a community project, but they are loathe to do that. It wouldn't give their OHA partners the ability to release the OS on handsets before the sources were available (not that this has stopped them from releasing handsets to customers then waiting weeks to publish sources, in violation of the GPL in may cases.)

    18. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      * Locking the Nexus homescreen to portrait is idiotic. Really.

      Not a problem since 4.1.2

      Not correct. For some addle-brained reason, Google still locks the homescreen to portrait on the Nexus 4. Which I tend to use in landscape mode about 80% of the time. It's just stupid, and may I say it, embarrassing if that hipster chick over there happens to look at my screen when it's sideways.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    19. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Not to mention, provide an actual full screen mode for games. I don't know how many times I've drained a ball in pinball because I got a home screen instead of a flip.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    20. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      * Locking the Nexus homescreen to portrait is idiotic. Really.

      Which Nexus? My Nexus 7 isn't locked in portrait. Not since 4.2.1

      Nexus 4. By the way you don't strengthen your points at all by sounding like an ass.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    21. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by kllrnohj · · Score: 1

      https://android-review.googlesource.com/#/q/status:merged,n,z

      Looks like there is a steady stream of work being done in AOSP to me.

      If you think nothing happens in AOSP it's simply because you've never looked and you've accepted someone else's FUD at face value.

      Also it's not about control, it's about actually getting shit done. The recent Wayland vs. Mir thing is a perfect example. Wayland was a good thing, but nobody is adopting it because the community is refusing to give up the old broken X11 for something better. And even still, Wayland has been in development for 5 years now - it's the same age as Android.

    22. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by kllrnohj · · Score: 1

      Task Managers don't actually kill apps, by the way. Android neutered the APIs that they were using in like Gingerbread. And that doesn't stop notifications anyway.

      Oh, and you can disallow notifications per app: http://www.droid-life.com/2012/11/29/how-to-disable-android-application-notifications-beginners-guide/

    23. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Fallingcow · · Score: 1

      My phone's running 2.3, but it's got touch-sensitive areas under the glass to represent the system buttons, and I hit 'em by accident all the damn time. Add some extra and very much undesirable challenge to Fruit Ninja.

      Hell, I occasionally manage to hit the button on my iPad Mini and back out of the book I'm reading or whatever, so I can imagine how much more frustrating a Nexus 7 would be. We've got several 4.x devices where I work, and as far as complaints about the OS from a user's perspective, those buttons are at the top of the list for the guys who have to use them often.

      It doesn't help that Android apps tend to be even worse than iOS apps about consistently recovering their state when you briefly pop out of them like that, either.

    24. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Android isn't Gnu/Linux, and there are quite a few differences between the two software stacks when you dig for it.

    25. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Microlith · · Score: 1

      Looks like there is a steady stream of work being done in AOSP to me.

      If you think nothing happens in AOSP it's simply because you've never looked and you've accepted someone else's FUD at face value.

      What you see there is very, very small compared to what appears with each release from Google. I'll also be amazed to see any commits or patches accepted from those that don't work at Google.

      Suffice it to say, you can't build and run a beta of 4.3 or whatever. All of that is kept behind closed doors until their partners are ready to abandon their 4.2 devices or whatever.

      Also it's not about control, it's about actually getting shit done.

      It is all about control. Google has used their control to withhold the releases of at least one Android revision for a full iteration and I suspect they'll do it again at some point.

      Wayland was a good thing, but nobody is adopting it because the community is refusing to give up the old broken X11 for something better.

      Err, no. The Wayland protocol went 1.0 months back and the reference implementation, Weston, isn't ready for production use yet. Mir is the result of Canonical being full of shit.

      And even still, Wayland has been in development for 5 years now - it's the same age as Android.

      Yes, sometimes it takes a while to create a well designed protocol, rather than rolling your own and having to revise it again and again like Google did with SurfaceFlinger. Of course, had Google cooperated with other projects they could have had something sooner, but instead they decided to buy a proprietary project and use that.

      Or hell, they could have used X11. It may have useless bits that will never see use on a mobile device but it's no slowpoke. Nope. NIH.

    26. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *There could be an option to unlock the homescreen orientation, but only you and a hand-full of people would probably notice. Really.

      It's the single most common complaint I've heard from Nexus4 owners, perhaps that handful are all people I know.

      It annoys me daily; the N4 is large enough to comfortably hold landscape and it works well, until you want to switch to another App, then there's this jarring moment. It's rather odd; Google have worked hard to smooth off Android's rough edges and in general 4.2 is a very smooth experience.

      I shall probably install one of the alternative launchers (I've only had my phone 2 weeks and haven't got round to it yet), but I really dont see why I should have to.

    27. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by kllrnohj · · Score: 1

      Err, no. The Wayland protocol went 1.0 months back and the reference implementation, Weston, isn't ready for production use yet. Mir is the result of Canonical being full of shit.

      You say no, but then proceed to not actually dispute what I said.

      Yes, sometimes it takes a while to create a well designed protocol, rather than rolling your own and having to revise it again and again like Google did with SurfaceFlinger.

      Shipping something is *waaaaay* more important, a point that is ironically lost on the GNU/Linux community. Ironic because Linux itself was the imperfect thing that shipped first and has steadily improved, whereas Hurd was focused on doing things "proper"

      Or hell, they could have used X11. It may have useless bits that will never see use on a mobile device but it's no slowpoke. Nope. NIH.

      Nope, X11 doesn't support a hwcomposer - something that is critical to mobile performance.

    28. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by blind+biker · · Score: 1

      Indeed - I made the (wrong) assumption we've been talking about the Nexus 7. A huge number of my friends has it, and so do I. My bad for ass-u-ming.

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    29. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or hell, they could have used X11. It may have useless bits that will never see use on a mobile device but it's no slowpoke.

      LOL

    30. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by mjwx · · Score: 1

      * Apps need a standard user interface way to exit. Really.

      Android has one, it's called the back button.

      Pressing the home button pauses the application, pressing back tells Android to close it.

      Applications that have a back or exit button only demonstrate the laziness of the developer who just ported over the UI from IOS wholesale and didn't care that Android doesn't have a deficiency in closing applications.

      * Locking the Nexus homescreen to portrait is idiotic. Really.

      How? I actually like it this way, it prevents the home screen from turning itself around when I'm holding it at funny angles.

      If you want to do it a different way, try one of the myriad of launchers available for Android or maybe even a custom ROM, they're dead easy to install on a Nexus. This is the beuaty of Android.

      * MTP looks great on paper,

      MTP works, It works a hell of a lot better than being forced to use some flaky bit of software that thinks it knows how to manage your stuff better than you. They had to pull the plug on MSC because you cant have two devices (the phone and the USB connected device) using the same volume.

      * Maps crashes all the time. Surely you know that. Fix it.

      I've got a Nexus S and Nexus 4, no maps instability on it what so ever. Either this is a problem with your setup or you've made it up.

      * Pretending that Android is not Linux is intellectually dishonest.

      Making this statement is intellectually dishonest.

      Android uses the Linux Kernel in the same way that Debian uses the Linux kernel. Android 4.0 and up use Linux 3.x. You know that Linux itself, is the kernel. Maybe you meant it's not GNU\Linux, but this is not what you said.

      * Support for unlocking and root access is still half hearted.

      "oem fastboot unlock" works fine on my Nexus' but it's much simpler to use something like Wugs Nexus toolkit.

      * Android is not a community project. Fix that.

      Yes it is a community project, if you disagree with how it's being run, fork it and do your own damn OS.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    31. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      * Pretending that Android is not Linux is intellectually dishonest.

      Making this statement is intellectually dishonest. Android uses the Linux Kernel in the same way that Debian uses the Linux kernel.

      Debian calls it "Debian GNU/Linux", as you know. That is intellectually honest. You are intellectually dishonest as is evident by this blatant and self serving falacy you have posted. I might go on to say that you disgust me, but you already know that. It doesn't seem to bother you a bit.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    32. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FYI: longpress Home to bring up app switcher. Swipe app away to kill it.

    33. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      *I think I've only seen maps crash once. Ever. Honest.

      I have a friend with an Android phone that he used for satnav. He's given me a lift in his car 3 times. I've seen it crash more than 3 times...

      The average experience lies somewhere between our two anecdotes.

    34. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      So you want them all to work the same way and look the same way?

      As far as quitting behaviour/interface? Of course! Duh!

      Which Nexus? My Nexus 7 isn't locked in portrait.

      As established elsewhere, phone, not tablet. Nexus 4 not 7.

      Not on any of the 5 android devices I've owned since my G1. Perhaps it's user error.

      Really? Blaming crashes on the user? You're an apologist. I've seen my friends Android crash whilst navigating more times than I've actually been in his car. He has to restart the phone to get it working again.

    35. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      no, they don't. if you use android for more than 10s you understand that you just switch to whatever app you want, and let the OS manage the lifecycle of the application. go back to windows if you feel you need to exit an application.

      It's a problem if the app in the background is using up cycles, polling the internet or doing other undesirable things.

      i can't recall maps ever crashing.

      Then you are a-typical. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen a lot to other people. It does.

    36. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Applications that have a back or exit button only demonstrate the laziness of the developer who just ported over the UI from IOS wholesale and didn't care that Android doesn't have a deficiency in closing applications.

      Bullshit. iOS apps do not close when you hit a back button. Not ever. You don't know what you are talking about. The one way to get out of iOS apps is the home button. Always.

      Don't blame you Android app inconsistency on another platform that doesn't even have that problem.

      I've got a Nexus S and Nexus 4, no maps instability on it what so ever. Either this is a problem with your setup or you've made it up.

      Blaming it on the user, and saying he might be a liar. You're an extreme apologist. Android maps DOES crash for many people. It would be polite to educate yourself with a web search before calling people liars.

    37. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Xest · · Score: 1

      "* Apps need a standard user interface way to exit. Really."

      What's wrong with your home button?

      "* Locking the Nexus homescreen to portrait is idiotic. Really."

      I don't understand this. Are you complaining the lock screen doesn't change orientation? why does that matter? on Android slide to unlock works in any direction.

      If you're talking about the home screen in general then locking and unlocking it is an option. Just turn it back off?

      "* Maps crashes all the time. Surely you know that. Fix it."

      Don't think it's crashed once for me since I had an old HTC Magic running 1.6 about 3 years ago.

      "* Pretending that Android is not Linux is intellectually dishonest."

      Has anyone at Google actually ever said it's not?

      "* Support for unlocking and root access is still half hearted."

      That's not an Android specific thing, it's down to your device manufacturer. Rooting/unlocking has been trivial, consistent, and often even unnecessary (as devices were already unlocked) on everything I've bought, but that's because I've avoided manufacturers known for locking their handsets down.

      "* Android is not a community project. Fix that."

      Horrible idea, last thing we want is it turning into a clusterfuck of bad ideas when it's been making such stable consistent progress over the years.

    38. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      That's not irony.

      A black fly in your Chardonnay - now that's irony. Oh, wait, no it's not.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    39. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      "Pretending that Android is not Linux is intellectually dishonest."

      Has anyone at Google actually ever said it's not?

      A lie by omission is still a lie.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    40. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      "Pretending that Android is not Linux is intellectually dishonest."

      Has anyone at Google actually ever said it's not?

      A lie by omission is still a lie.

      And yes, many Googlers have made the claim that Linux is a kernel, not an operating system. Whereas any textbook on operating systems makes it plain that Linux is in fact an operating system. Or visit Wikipedia to understand this simple fact.

      Google's stance with regard to Linux is self serving intellectual dishonesty all the way, pure and simple.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    41. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Emetophobe · · Score: 1

      Of course there isn't any way to disallow notifications per app either because that would go against the whole ad based ecosystem.

      What? You've been able to disable notifications on a per app basis since 4.1.

      Manage Apps -> Select App -> Uncheck Show Notifications

      Example: http://cdn.ausdroid.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Disable-Notifications.png

    42. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MTP doesn't even look good on paper. It looks like a 297 page turd with various amendments still clutching to the butt hairs of its creator (MS). And add to the fact that the Google MTP implementation is less than solid it makes for a wipe and flush heavy experience.

    43. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Actually, I meant to say that MTP looks good on a powerpoint slide.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    44. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by strikethree · · Score: 1

      Apps need a standard user interface way to exit. Really.

      I agree. That is not "their" philosophy though. Ah well.

      Locking the Nexus homescreen to portrait is idiotic. Really.

      Um, which Nexus? Regardless, of the two that I have owned, that was simply an option that you could set. Portrait/Landscape were both available. Install a different launcher if you are really unhappy.

      MTP looks great on paper, in practice it is dog slow and buggy. Back to the drawing board please.

      No idea. I always use USB mass storage. I have no idea what MTP buys me and what I am missing by not using it.

      Maps crashes all the time. Surely you know that. Fix it.

      Maps crashes all the time for you. For me, it is rock solid and has never once crashed. Perhaps you should be submitting bug reports? I would even go so far as to guess that it is your particular configuration or hardware that is at fault.

      Pretending that Android is not Linux is intellectually dishonest.

      Android is Android. It runs on top of the Linux kernel. Android is not a kernel therefore Android is not Linux. I am unsure what you are trying to say. They should be advertising that Android runs on the Linux kernel?

      Support for unlocking and root access is still half hearted.

      Again, I have absolutely no idea which Nexus devices that you have owned but the ones that I have owned, unlocking is extremely simple and even shows you a pretty little unlocked icon on boot to show you that it is unlocked. Unlocking is supported without having to resort to flashing special firmwares and such.

      Root access? The phone is unlocked. Install a custom ROM if you are having a hard time getting root.

      Android is not a community project. Fix that.

      Android belongs to Google. You have no right to demand that they allow the community to determine its direction. They give you the source code so you can make it go in whatever direction you want for yourself. Here is a community that is doing just that: www.cyanogenmod.org/ Go party it up buddy.

      I am not sure what else to say at this point. Your views are odd and out of synch with my experiences. Have a nice day (or whatever kind of day you desire). :)

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    45. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Maps crashes all the time. Surely you know that. Fix it.

      Maps crashes all the time for you. For me, it is rock solid and has never once crashed. Perhaps you should be submitting bug reports? I would even go so far as to guess that it is your particular configuration or hardware that is at fault.

      It's a stock Nexus 4 upgraded to the latest. The phone should be submitting bug reports, not me, and it probably is. These reports are apparently being ignored. All I know is, I get "Sorry, maps has stopped" about 5 times a day. I presume that's a segfault, but how would I know? Google doesn't let me have root access so I can debug it, and I'm not about to spend my valuable time working around that just now.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    46. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Pretending that Android is not Linux is intellectually dishonest.

      Android is Android. It runs on top of the Linux kernel. Android is not a kernel therefore Android is not Linux. I am unsure what you are trying to say. They should be advertising that Android runs on the Linux kernel?

      I'm saying that you are being disingenuous. Linux is an operating system, Android is an application suite that sits on top of the Linux operating system. When Google talks about their "operating system" as they frequently do, they should not be dishonest. And neither should you. If you truly require clarification on this issue then the Wikipedia article on operating systems will do, as will any text on operating systems.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    47. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Root access? The phone is unlocked. Install a custom ROM if you are having a hard time getting root.

      Installing a custom ROM just to get root is a royal pain. If you don't believe me, then you do it.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    48. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      I am not sure what else to say at this point. Your views are odd and out of synch with my experiences. Have a nice day (or whatever kind of day you desire)

      I am sure what to say. You are a pompous ass, and no doubt, a Google employee. People like you will be the downfall of Google.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    49. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      Then you are a-typical. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen a lot to other people. It does. /quote.

      then you are a-typical. just because you have seen it doesn't mean that it happens a lot to other people. it doesn't.

      see how that works? you know it's generally understood that people are leaving opinions an anecdotal evidence. i'm really curious though what gives you the great incite to proclaim without a doubt that i'm wrong.

    50. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      see how that works?

      No. You don't seem to realise that there's a difference between absence of proof and proof of absence.

      It may be that you haven't seen a koala bear. But that doesn't mean that they don't exist. They do.

      Someone who HAS seen koala bears IS in a position to say you are wrong.

      And I'm in a position to say that your lack of observation of Android maps crashing has indeed led you to the wrong conclusion. Both because I have seen them multiple times, and because a web search confirms it.

      Your lack of observations is irrelevant.

    51. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      and just because you saw a pink koala bear doesn't mean all are pink. my god. i never said that the app never, ever crashed on anyone. i said that i've used (use) it extensively and it never crashes for me. that, and maps is generally considered to be the killer app for android and is the platform's main advantage over iOS.

      and no, you don't seem to understand the relevance of sample sizes. because you and your buddy have seen google maps crash doesn't mean it's an unstable application in general. i challenge you to pick any heavily used app on any platform and google for "xxx crash" and not come significant results.

      p.s., i just searched for "ronald reagan is black" and came up with 34m hits. what did i just prove?

    52. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      p.s., i just searched for "ronald reagan is black" and came up with 34m hits. what did i just prove?

      That you don't know how to use a search engine either.

      http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22ronald+reagan+is+black%22

      = 91 hits.

      http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22ronald+reagan+is+white%22

      = 919 hits.

      Result: Ronald Regan is white.

    53. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      impeccable logic. let me "prove" something else for you,

      "google maps" android great = 52m results
      "google maps" android terrible = 605k results

      conclusion: google maps is great. again, see how that works?

    54. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      The silly hit counting idea was yours. I just wanted to teach you how to use quote marks in searches. It formed no part of my comment on the fact that Android maps crashes.

    55. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      no, quoting google as a source of truth was your idea,

      And I'm in a position to say that your lack of observation of Android maps crashing has indeed led you to the wrong conclusion. Both because I have seen them multiple times, and because a web search confirms it.

    56. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Note: Multiple times was personal observation. The web search said nothing about quantity. It's qualitative. Seeing what people say, not counting hits.

    57. Re:Maybe the new guy will be less arrogant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have only worked with the Nexus 1, the Nexus S, and the Galaxy Nexus. I have never had any problems with Maps on any of those devices nor on the Galaxy S or the Galaxy Note. Jelly Bean in general seems a bit unstable on my Note but I am assuming that has do with no official ROM of Jellybean being put out there yet. I have used Maps only casually on Jellybean (I am pretty much stuck on Ice Cream Sandwich) but I suspect I would have seen the problems you are speaking of even on casual usage of Maps.

      The phone should be submitting bug reports, not me, and it probably is.

      The phone will prompt you to send a bug report upon an application crash. Unless you have told it to do so automagically from now on, it will NOT be sending bug reports on its own.

      Google doesn't let me have root access so I can debug it, and I'm not about to spend my valuable time working around that just now.

      Google does let you have root. When you have time to stop bumping blindly into walls, take the time to go to the XDA developer forums, find your device, and start reading.

      You surely have a malfunctioning unit and should be returning it for a replacement/repair; especially since you do not have the time to figure out exactly what the problem is.

  5. THE !! BEGINNING !! OF !! TEH'S !! END !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This marks the beginning of the end for Teh Google !! The players are getting out !!

    RIM---BLACKBERRY RULEZ !!

  6. Pope story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a good thing they announced the new pope before this news broke...saves us from the 50 Andy Rubin is the new pope jokes...

    1. Re:Pope story by 21mhz · · Score: 1

      In other news, white smoke has been observed rising from Google HQ.

      --
      My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
  7. "... and we helped him decide" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People in high visibility roles who decide to move on will make sure the world knows of their intentions to leave well in advance, to squelch any rumors that they've been pushed aside.

  8. Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by tepples · · Score: 5, Informative
    Just making sure that we come into this discussion informed:

    Apps need a standard user interface way to exit. Really.

    Home button. Or are you referring to applications that hold services open?

    Locking the Nexus homescreen to portrait is idiotic. Really.

    Android 4.2 fixed that on my Nexus 7 tablet.

    MTP looks great on paper, in practice it is dog slow and buggy. Back to the drawing board please.

    True, I had trouble copying files between my Nexus 7 tablet and my Xubuntu laptop. But other than MTP, what royalty-free protocol for transferring files is compatible with a Windows host without having to download drivers, become an administrator, and install them? FAT over MSC, the solution used in Android 2.x, was found not to be royalty-free; Microsoft has been winning lawsuits with its FAT patents.

    Pretending that Android is not Linux is intellectually dishonest.

    AOSP is a Linux distribution, but it is not GNU/Linux. If GNU/Linux had been marketed as RMS had suggested, there would have been no dishonesty.

    Support for unlocking and root access is still half hearted.

    Could you elaborate on what you mean by this? All popular Android devices, except for early AT&T devices (many of which have since been updated) and certain Nook products, have the "Unknown sources" switch, and Nexus devices can be reformatted to rootable using commands like fastboot oem unlock.

    Android is not a community project.

    In what way?

    1. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      The move away from using USB mass storage has nothing to do with FAT patents; you can't have the Android device and the USB host access the block storage at the same time with USB mass storage, and you can with MTP.

    2. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by SternisheFan · · Score: 1
      Using the home button does not end the app, it's still running in the background using memory. I think OP might have meant "exit" to mean an easy way to exit the app that also 'force stops' it. A feature most apps do not do and one that I would welcome, since it's an unwanted set of taps (settings / apps / force stop).

      Also on my 'grinds my gears' list are apps that reactivate themselves after being force stopped. Those I usually uninstall.

    3. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by Merk42 · · Score: 1

      And why do you want it to 'force stop'? You do know Android is smart enough to free up RAM and the like when needed, right?

    4. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do know Android is smart enough to free up RAM and the like when needed, right?

      Yes, like when I flick back to my browser ( after reading an e-mail ) and it has been killed by the OS. It then tries to reload all the tabs it has open, but no longer has a network connection.

      What genius thought that was 'smart enough'? Kill the useless text to speech service, or the Gmail service I never use, but not my browser.

    5. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True, I had trouble copying files between my Nexus 7 tablet and my Xubuntu laptop. But other than MTP, what royalty-free protocol for transferring files is compatible with a Windows host without having to download drivers, become an administrator, and install them? FAT over MSC, the solution used in Android 2.x, was found not to be royalty-free; Microsoft has been winning lawsuits with its FAT patents.

      FAT32 also has many limitations, like 4GB file barrier. They could have used ext4, but it would have required a driver on Windows. Anyways, they need a protocol which allow both the phone and the computer to access files at the same time. Mass storage device is perfect for a dumb device such as USB thumb drive but is not appropriate for a smartphone.

      The other option I see is running a samba server on the phone. There is already IP connectivity (for tethering) so that would be simple. But that wouldn't automatically add an icon to "my computer" so it's not average joe-proof.

    6. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Press the "switch apps" button and it will show a list of recent apps. Grab one and swipe it sideways off the list. This will forceclose the app. (Android 4.0+, of course, but come on, it's 2013 already).

      I do this when a game in the background is still using enough CPU to kill the battery. Dammit, Jet Set Radio, I don't want to remove you from my phone but you need to shape up!

    7. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by SternisheFan · · Score: 1
      Not being a super computer geek, I really don't claim geek knowledge here, but when I leave a room and turn off the light, I expect the light to stay off (I'm old school that way). Any app shouldn't be able to 'talk' to the internet unless I allow it to (Happy to have 'DroidWall' for my rooted tablet for that reason). Obvious slowdowns will occur when too many background apps are running.

      And is asking for control over 'permissions' too crazy to want to have? If denying a permission breaks the app, I would re-enable it. I thought the whole idea of Android over Apple was having more control over the device.

      I've had Android devices for about a year now, if I sound naive, I am, still learning about all this.

    8. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      MTP looks great on paper, in practice it is dog slow and buggy. Back to the drawing board please.

      True, I had trouble copying files between my Nexus 7 tablet and my Xubuntu laptop. But other than MTP, what royalty-free protocol for transferring files is compatible with a Windows host without having to download drivers, become an administrator, and install them? FAT over MSC, the solution used in Android 2.x, was found not to be royalty-free; Microsoft has been winning lawsuits with its FAT patents.

      The problem is NOT MTP. It's Android's implementation of MTP. Lots of things used MTP before (it's been around for years). And it worked fine then and works fine now.

      I know a developer who worked on getting MTP working for a device using Android - he's been cursing the Android implementation because it implements the barest of the bare minimum to work - it doesn't support many features, and even doing things in the wrong order crashes it.

      He's probably spent months writing a client that actually works decently with Android over MTP. Works fine on other MTP implementations, but plug in Android and things go wonky.

      Its coded against Windows' MTP support. Use anything else and it breaks easily. Even Windows probably breaks, just Microsoft coded it to be robust enough to handle common faults without crashing. But I know if I don't wait for Windows to finish enumerating everything over MTP, the Android MTP gets in a weird state and you have unplug/plug to kick it.

      I wouldn't be surprised that other MTP implementations have run into serious issues with it. Android's just horrible at MTP.

    9. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by SternisheFan · · Score: 1

      Press the "switch apps" button and it will show a list of recent apps. Grab one and swipe it sideways off the list. This will forceclose the app. (Android 4.0+, of course, but come on, it's 2013 already).

      I do this when a game in the background is still using enough CPU to kill the battery. Dammit, Jet Set Radio, I don't want to remove you from my phone but you need to shape up!

      Thanks AC, that works great! :-)

    10. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just swipe the app to the right in the list of all running apps and voila, app stopped. That standard enough for you?

    11. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by fufufang · · Score: 1

      MTP looks great on paper, in practice it is dog slow and buggy. Back to the drawing board please.

      True, I had trouble copying files between my Nexus 7 tablet and my Xubuntu laptop. But other than MTP, what royalty-free protocol for transferring files is compatible with a Windows host without having to download drivers, become an administrator, and install them? FAT over MSC, the solution used in Android 2.x, was found not to be royalty-free; Microsoft has been winning lawsuits with its FAT patents.

      How about a nice Samba server? Windows, Linux and Mac all support them. You can even copy media file over Wifi.

    12. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by Dynedain · · Score: 0

      Bullshit.

      There's no technical reason why a powered-on Android device can't present sections of the filesystem as USB mass storage.

      My digital camera does it all the time as do countless NAT/USB file server devices.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    13. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Just swipe the app to the right in the list of all running apps and voila, app stopped.

      So I look in settings under "apps" and "running". I see Google maps running (one app, one process started by the app). Now I press the "running apps" button and, my goodness, no Google Maps in the list of running apps, nothing to swipe. Ahem.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    14. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by kllrnohj · · Score: 2

      You can't take pictures with your camera while it is USB mode. Which is the problem. Your phone shouldn't suddenly become a brick just because you plugged it into a computer like your camera does.

      There is a very real technical problem with USB mass storage. This was explained by Android engineers before as well.

    15. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And why do you want it to 'force stop'? You do know Android is smart enough to free up RAM and the like when needed, right?

      No, definitely not reliably. If I do not kill running apps long enough, my Samsung Galaxy s3 becomes unstable. I have to either kill useless apps or restart the phone approximately once a week.

      I also encountered "not enough memory" message when starting up app that takes a lot of memory. Killing running apps was solution.

    16. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by Dynedain · · Score: 0

      Actually, I can shoot while plugged in. I can even switch my camera into a direct streaming mode.

      The Android team can write a interface layer so that the contents of the device appear as a mass storage device. It wouldn't be the same thing as direct hardware access to the file storage, but it's certainly possible without introducing a new filesystem format.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    17. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by kllrnohj · · Score: 4, Informative

      The Android team can write a interface layer so that the contents of the device appear as a mass storage device. It wouldn't be the same thing as direct hardware access to the file storage, but it's certainly possible without introducing a new filesystem format.

      No you can't, because the host OS does this thing called "caching". That is simply not technically doable. And just to be clear, USB mass storage exposes a block level device - not a file system or anything like that. USB mass storage simply does not allow concurrent access to the underlying storage, it just doesn't. Flat out impossible.

    18. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some of the built in Google apps do that, no expert am I with Android, one year in newbie, but some Google core apps offer a "Service" to other apps, but the full app is not running, just the service.

    19. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by jrumney · · Score: 1

      FAT over MSC, the solution used in Android 2.x, was found not to be royalty-free; Microsoft has been winning lawsuits with its FAT patents.

      Which lawsuits did Microsoft ever win? There were a lot of settlements, involving a whole suite of unidentified patents that might have included the remaining valid VFAT patent (which expires in a couple of months time), but did any of the cases ever get to court?

    20. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Using the home button does not end the app, it's still running in the background using memory. I think OP might have meant "exit" to mean an easy way to exit the app that also 'force stops' it.

      Hi,

      That's what the back button does.

      Judging from the OP's woefully inaccurate and froth laden post I doubt he wants a solution, or even has used Android.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    21. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Right, you can't disable caching for specific mounts or anything.

      It is doable, it has been done by others, it is non-trivial, and not REALLY that important.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    22. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by SternisheFan · · Score: 1

      (Replying to self), actually the 'switch apps' swipe does not forceclose the app.

    23. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by SternisheFan · · Score: 1

      Sometimes the 'back' button is disabled by the app, that's when 'home' is needed (then I need to go to ''applications / app / forcestop''. Android still gives you far more control than Apple, it's these little problems that, if they can be addressed, would give a more satisfactory 'user experience'.

    24. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      That's what the back button does.

      You're kidding? The back button is used to navigate the hierarchy within the app, then (on some apps) quits right out of the app, right back to the home screen? Like if a DOS app that quit of you pressed ESC too many times? Or a web browser that quit if you pressed back when you've already got back to your home-page on the web.

      If that's what you mean, that sounds really shit.

    25. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by SenseiLeNoir · · Score: 1

      There are MANY technical reasons why an android devices cant present itself as USB mass storage. The two MAIN ones are:
      - USB Mass Storage (USM) is a block level service which would NEED to be formatted in some form of FAT. Since Android is Linux based, the file system internally is ext4 on recent devices. No windows machine out of the box can mount ext4. (see below for implications on Nexus devices)
      IT is extremely difficult, and dangerous to "Simulate" FAT where the device is not internally FAT.
      - When a storage device is USM mounted, it has to be unmounted from the host, otherwise data corruption is likely to occur (especially with FAT) meaning that apps which write to that storage will find the storage no longer available, and would need to be cleanly unmounted from the attached PC before removal too.

      There are other issues that FAT has no security around it, which is required for many internal and other applications in android.

      MTP solves the mount/unmount problems, by presenting a higher level file/directory access that is filesystem agnostic. The computer or any other connected device does not require to understand the file system layout, etc, hence the OS can use any FS it likes internally. Indeed it can even present a virtual directory tree if it wants. It does not require to be unmounted, and can guarantee writes (no caching). It also does one op at a time. This is what makes it seem slow, there is no write caching, nor multi tasking on this.

      However, I find that in terms of actual transfer, MTP on my Galaxy S2 is only very slightly slower than the USM mode when transferring large files(>1MB). Smaller files take a little longer, but still not that bad.

      The nexus does NOT have a FAT system, and since it only has a single partition, it cannot expose itself as a USM. However, you can use all storage for apps.

      The Galaxy s2 partitions its storage into separate ext4 and fat partition, therefore has a (fairly well hidden) USM mode for both internal and card storage. However, it ends up limiting the Application storage space to just 2GB of ext4.

      The NEXUS 4 has a single filesystem allocated for the runnign OS.

      --
      Have a nice day!
    26. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by Emetophobe · · Score: 1

      Using the home button does not end the app, it's still running in the background using memory. I think OP might have meant "exit" to mean an easy way to exit the app that also 'force stops' it. A feature most apps do not do and one that I would welcome, since it's an unwanted set of taps (settings / apps / force stop).

      Why would you want apps to be force closed? Just so you don't see them in the recent apps list? There's a good reason for Android to only pause apps and not close them:

      1. When an app is no longer needed it gets paused (it still uses memory, but it's in a stopped state, unless it has background threads or services).

      1.a When that app is started again it is resumed from its previous state (much faster than having to restart the app from scratch since it's still in memory).

      1.b If Android needs to free up memory it may close the paused app, in which cause the app needs to be restarted from scratch the next time it's run (since it's no longer in memory).

      That behaviour is well designed in my opinion, it uses available memory to speed up apps, and Android only frees memory when it needs to. The developer activity lifecycle illustrates it pretty well.
      You should never have to use Settings->Apps->Force Stop unless you're dealing with misbehaving or badly designed apps.

    27. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by kllrnohj · · Score: 1

      Right, you can't disable caching for specific mounts or anything.

      Congrats, you just went from "plug-n-play" to "just edit /etc/fstab, duh"

      Side note, you can only disable caching if the file system supports it, and not all do.

      It is doable, it has been done by others,

      Who has done this? I've only ever encountered a single device that had concurrent block level access and it was a microSD card combined with an NFC chip. And it was very painful to get that to work on Linux, and had to be done in the app with O_DIRECT to get it to somewhat work. The kernel was not happy with it. Nor was Windows, which matters a whole hell of a lot more here.

    28. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by SternisheFan · · Score: 1
      I appreciate you (and all the other posters) explanation, and the flowchart link helped. The pausing of apps makes more sense to me now.

      You 'nerds' are all right in my book. :-)

    29. Re:Quit, landscape, MTP, Linux, root by SternisheFan · · Score: 1

      Just swipe the app to the right in the list of all running apps and voila, app stopped.

      So I look in settings under "apps" and "running". I see Google maps running (one app, one process started by the app). Now I press the "running apps" button and, my goodness, no Google Maps in the list of running apps, nothing to swipe. Ahem.

      I'm a little late in posting this, but I've learned that swiping the app doesn't 'kill' it, you need to do a 'long press' on it. This brings up a sub-menu, NOW press on 'app info'. And that shortcut brings you to the 'app info screen', and from there you can 'force stop' that app.

      Google doesn't explain this too well. It does make that option more sensible.

  9. Show me a working ROM of Android/kFreeBSD by tepples · · Score: 1

    There is no reason that Android couldn't be built on top of any other kernel like FreeBSD, XNU etc...

    Other than that nobody has yet bothered to do it. Show me a working ROM of Android/kFreeBSD working on a Nexus device, and I'll agree that Android is kernel-independent in the same way Debian is becoming.

    1. Re:Show me a working ROM of Android/kFreeBSD by DrXym · · Score: 2

      Android runs over QNX, at least in the Playbook / BB10. If they can do it, there is no reason someone else couldn't. Could probably port it over to any Unix-ish kernel assuming it had the drivers to power the hardware.

  10. Reason to fear how? by tepples · · Score: 1

    Why is a move toward feature parity between Chrome for Android and Chrome for PCs "reason to fear"?

    1. Re:Reason to fear how? by DrXym · · Score: 1

      Chrome OS, not Chrome the browser. Basically Google has two operating systems, Android and Chrome OS with a substantial overlap of functionality competing in with each other and on similar devices. It's incredibly divisive and silly and they should have merged the two efforts a long time ago.

    2. Re:Reason to fear how? by tlambert · · Score: 1

      Chrome OS, not Chrome the browser. Basically Google has two operating systems, Android and Chrome OS with a substantial overlap of functionality competing in with each other and on similar devices. It's incredibly divisive and silly and they should have merged the two efforts a long time ago.

      This not actually accurate. ChromeOS devices are actually productized within Google. All android devices are more or less productized by the phone partner vendors off a frozen code cut of the Android source tree.

      In both cases, there are vendor private parts of the source tree which don't get published and integrated until the devices ship, since the partners don't want some other partner being aware of the device they are building, and want to do their own announcements.

      Both groups could learn a lot from each other, but I doubt that there will be centralized development immediately, if at all, any more than I'd expect the server Linux developers to be rolled into either group, or the Gunbuntu folks (who do the desktop OS work).

    3. Re:Reason to fear how? by tehcyder · · Score: 2

      "Productized" is not a word, and if it is, it shouldn't be.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  11. I am not hopeful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Andy Rubin created Android. This is a big achievement.

    What are the achievements of Sundar Pichai? His wikipedia page reveals nothing. He was a talking person for Google in introducing some recent new technology.
    But what did he actually achieve?
    He looks like a career manager, equipped with all the right tools: thirst for power, unlimited patients to sit through all the meetings, etc.
    It looks like his main skill and achievement is getting to the high positions, and he seems to succeed in that.

    That's why I am not hopeful for any changes in Android.

    1. Re:I am not hopeful by DragonWriter · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Andy Rubin created Android. This is a big achievement.

      And may well be why Rubin is moving out of Android; he may well be moving to a position in Google where he can create new things, rather than managing a relatively mature product.

      What are the achievements of Sundar Pichai? [...] He looks like a career manager

      Seems appropriate, for someone whose job is managing.

  12. With the Galaxy S IV set to be unveiled tomorrow.. by teh31337one · · Score: 1

    Are Google burying the news of Andy Rubin's departure?

  13. Cached applications in Android by tepples · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Using the home button does not end the app, it's still running in the background using memory.

    So I close Firefox on my GNU/Linux laptop. When I open it again, it hardly accesses the disk at all; that's because Firefox is still present in the disk cache using memory. Likewise, in Android, when the user switches away from a particular application's activity, Android keeps the application in a "cached" state until another process needs the RAM, assuming that the user is likely to return to the application. It's like the early controversy over SuperFetch in Windows Vista and Windows 7: What use is RAM if you're not using it? Or are you assuming that a device can cut power to half the RAM?

    Also on my 'grinds my gears' list are apps that reactivate themselves after being force stopped.

    Including applications associated with background services that other applications use, or applications that receive notifications as part of doing their job?

    1. Re:Cached applications in Android by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Android keeps the application in a "cached" state until another process needs the RAM, assuming that the user is likely to return to the application.

      But it's not in a cached state, is it? It's in a running in the background state. Often slowing the device down.

  14. Re:Android, meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Am I the only one that thinks that Android still seems like an amateurish hack?

    Yep.

  15. Re:Android, meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Am I the only one that thinks that Android still seems like an amateurish hack?

    Yep.

    Hey, be fair. There are probably millions of apple fanboys who honestly "think" whatever their church elders tell them they should be thinking.

  16. Android kills closed apps automatically by tepples · · Score: 1

    [On] my Samsung Galaxy s3 [...] I also encountered "not enough memory" message when starting up app that takes a lot of memory. Killing running apps was solution.

    I haven't seen that happen on my Nexus 7 tablet. Android is supposed to automatically kill applications that have no visible activities or running services. Perhaps Samsung screwed something up with TouchWiz. One more reason to stick with mostly stock Android (Nexus or CM), I guess.

  17. Or even a Samba client by tepples · · Score: 1

    The other option I see is running a samba server on the phone.

    I ended up running a file manager with a Samba client on my Nexus 7 and running a Samba server on my laptop.

  18. Microsoft v. TomTom as well as a German case by tepples · · Score: 1

    Which lawsuits did Microsoft ever win?

    Microsoft v. TomTom was taken to U.S. court and the International Trade Commission but was settled. A separate case in Germany resulted in a win for Microsoft at the German Supreme Court.

    1. Re:Microsoft v. TomTom as well as a German case by jrumney · · Score: 1

      In the Tom Tom case, the case was settled without a decision from the court on which patents (if any) Tom Tom were in violation of. In the German case, Microsoft successfully overturned on appeal an anulment of their patent. This is different from deciding that the implementation in Android (or any other system) is in violation of this patent (which will expire in the US in 17 days from now, and in Europe in another year).

  19. I'm with you partly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apps need a standard user interface way to exit. Agreed, back back back back back is no way to exit an app, the idea that I always want to move forward is silly. Sometimes I just want to say 'I've finished with this close it' and that does need a standard way.

    MTP is too slow, ditch it, I just want file access. Agreed, I was shocked to 'upgrade' to Windows 7 (which has MTP support) only to find it was unbelievably slower due to the MTP than my old unupgraded XP box. MTP is the work of idiots, Android should show as a file system in Windows, (is it an option somewhere?)

    "Maps crashes all the time" never had this problem.

    " Pretending that Android is not Linux is intellectually dishonest" Pedantic.
    "Support for unlocking and root access is still half hearted." Don't care, unlocking shouldn't be necessary.
    "Android is not a community project. Fix that.", nah, it's got 50 large corps working on it, stuff like the Galaxy Note, Sony Ericcson widget kit etc. so I'm happy with that.

    1. Re:I'm with you partly by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      "Pretending that Android is not Linux is intellectually dishonest" Pedantic.

      For you, maybe. For a kernel developer, not so much.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  20. Re:With the Galaxy S IV set to be unveiled tomorro by mjwx · · Score: 1

    Are Google burying the news of Andy Rubin's departure?

    Rubin isn't leaving Google, he's moving to another project.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  21. Re:Android, meh. by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

    Am I the only one that thinks that Android still seems like an amateurish hack?

    No you're not. Android is the Windows of the mobile world.

    (And funnily enough, Windows Phone isn't!)

  22. Blocked by tepples · · Score: 1

    [An Android application with no visible activity and no running service is] not in a cached state, is it? It's in a running in the background state. Often slowing the device down.

    The process still exists in RAM, but it's blocked until it receives an intent to start an activity or service, and the scheduler skips it. You're right that some poorly engineered applications keep a service open longer than necessary, such as a music player that keeps its audio decoder service decoding silence instead of shutting off at the end of a song, but that's by no means limited to Android.

    1. Re:Blocked by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      such as a music player that keeps its audio decoder service decoding silence instead of shutting off at the end of a song, but that's by no means limited to Android.

      Nice try. You pick an unlikely and fringe case of wasted background processing that is also feasible on iOS. A much more likely, and indeed common case is an Android app that is repeatedly polling some web service. But you didn't use that, or one of the other common scenarios, because you know full well it can't happen with iOS. iOS uses a notifications system in order to perform this kind of operations for a background task, without the background task having to be woken up.

      It's one of the big benefits of iOS vs Android. Android tends to slow down, and reduce battery life over time as more apps are left running in the background. iOS doesn't.

  23. FAT32 cap by tepples · · Score: 1

    Even after the VFAT patents have expired, FAT32 officially tops out at 32 GB, and ExFAT's patents still have years to go before they expire.

    1. Re:FAT32 cap by jrumney · · Score: 1

      FAT32 officially tops out at 32 GB

      Is posting FUD on slashdot officially part of your job title at Microsoft, or did you just drink too much kool-aid today? 32GB is an artificial limit newly introduced in Windows 7 in an attempt to force people onto exFAT for removable devices before the last of the VFAT patents expire. FAT32 supports up to 2TB.

    2. Re:FAT32 cap by tepples · · Score: 1

      32GB is an artificial limit

      I agree. It's artificial, but it exists, so it must be worked around.

      newly introduced in Windows 7

      I disagree. I thought Microsoft introduced the limit in Windows XP. This forum post, for example, predates the release of Windows Vista.

      in an attempt to force people onto exFAT

      What will force people onto exFAT is the fact that SDXC cards come preformatted to exFAT, and other devices that use SDXC cards will expect exFAT.

  24. Not using push? File a bug by tepples · · Score: 1

    A much more likely, and indeed common case is an Android app that is repeatedly polling some web service.

    This is also solvable: file a bug report on the developer's issue tracker requesting a switch to GCM, so that the application can receive a push notification from Google that the web service has new information to pass.

    Android tends to slow down, and reduce battery life over time as more apps are left running in the background. iOS doesn't.

    Android also has a tool to tell the user what application is causing the device to wake up and drain its battery. For me, "Screen" is the biggest culprit by far, taking a two-thirds supermajority of juice on my Nexus 7. From there, if the user thinks an application is misbehaving, it's just two taps to uninstall it until the developer pushes out a fixed version. In any case, I don't see how that outweighs several application categories being absent from the App Store for reasons other than battery use.

    1. Re:Not using push? File a bug by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      This is also solvable: file a bug report on the developer's issue tracker requesting a switch to GCM

      You can ask, but you won't necessarily get. There's an awful lot of Android apps out there that are doing the wrong thing.

      In any case, I don't see how that outweighs several application categories being absent from the App Store for reasons other than battery use.

      What, EVERY time Android comes out worse, you go back to that old saw? The pros and cons of a single curated store are well known.

  25. Google X by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

    It *could* be that he's moving on to some secret project in Google.

    There a quite a large number of reports that he (like Jeff Huber, who just stepped down as Senior VP of Geo and Commerce as those two units are being split up and merged with other units -- Geo with Search and Commerce with Advertising) is moving to Google's "X Lab", so "secret project at Google" seems likely.

  26. Unresponsive to bug reports? One star by tepples · · Score: 1

    You can ask [for proper push notification support], but you won't necessarily get.

    Likewise, developers can ask for a review with three or more stars, but they won't necessarily get.

    EVERY time Android comes out worse, you go back to that old saw?

    Anybody who wants to take advantage of the pros of iOS but also run a forbidden application would need to either carry two devices or buy a second computer to run Xcode and pay $99 per year to join the developer program. And if the concern is saving battery charge for making an urgent phone call, that's all the more reason to carry a tablet and a feature phone.

    1. Re:Unresponsive to bug reports? One star by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Anybody who wants to take advantage of the pros of iOS but also run a forbidden application would need to either carry two devices or buy a second computer to run Xcode and pay $99 per year to join the developer program.

      Or jailbreak it. But most people don't have a problem. They don't want roulette - Russian or chat.

      And if the concern is saving battery charge for making an urgent phone call, that's all the more reason to carry a tablet and a feature phone.

      No, the concern is running out of battery. Period.

  27. Everyone wants something different by tepples · · Score: 1

    They don't want roulette - Russian or chat.

    A lot of people who don't want chat roulette and don't want Russian roulette want wardriving. And a lot of people who don't want any of those three want short-term video rentals. Or a launcher that adapts to a particular disability. Or emulators to play classic games that they own a copy of on floppy or CD but whose publisher has since gone out of business. Or a web browser supporting upload of media types other than pictures and video to a web page. Or a web browser supporting any of several other features that Apple purposely leaves out of Safari.

    That's the beauty of my "old saw" as you call it: you can't get away with proving that nobody wants one thing; you have to prove that nobody wants a whole bunch of things. iOS is not for everyone.

    1. Re:Everyone wants something different by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      "A lot of people who don't want chat roulette and don't want Russian roulette want wardriving. "

      A lot? Here's a dose of reality: Nearly no-one even knows what it is.

      And there's no restriction on short term video rental. And it is in fact available. You didn't understand the outdated app guidelines list you read.

    2. Re:Everyone wants something different by tepples · · Score: 1

      Here's a dose of reality: Nearly no-one even knows what [wardriving] is.

      People don't know wardriving by the name wardriving, but they would probably understand "having the ability to take notes about a Wi-Fi hotspot that your device discovers".

      And there's no restriction on short term video rental. And it is in fact available.

      When did Apple change IAP to allow subscriptions shorter than 30 days?

      You didn't understand the outdated app guidelines list you read.

      I want to start understanding. What updated app guidelines should I be looking at instead? I tried clicking through the link found on this page, but it asked me to "Sign in with your Apple ID".

    3. Re:Everyone wants something different by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      People don't know wardriving by the name wardriving, but they would probably understand "having the ability to take notes about a Wi-Fi hotspot that your device discovers".

      No, they'd look at you in a funny way, and wonder why you have no life. All the average person wants to do is to connect to their own home wifi, or to public access ones. Both of which are facilities that are built in.

      When did Apple change IAP to allow subscriptions shorter than 30 days?

      What have IAP subscriptions got to do with video rental? Nothing.

      I tried clicking through the link found on this page, but it asked me to "Sign in with your Apple ID".

      That would be because it's for iOS developers. Not Android fans with a chip on their shoulder.

    4. Re:Everyone wants something different by tepples · · Score: 1

      All the average person wants to do is to connect to their own home wifi, or to public access ones.

      And not discuss public access ones with other people? That's what "wardriving" is for: it allows the owner of a wireless communication device to collect information about the respective locations and limitations of public access hotspots.

    5. Re:Everyone wants something different by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      How quaint. There are apps show maps of local public access hotspots.

  28. People considering becoming iOS developers by tepples · · Score: 1

    What have IAP subscriptions got to do with video rental? Nothing.

    I thought IAP was the only way to charge the user for something within an app.

    That would be because it's for iOS developers.

    Then what analogous document is for people considering becoming iOS developers?

    1. Re:People considering becoming iOS developers by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      I thought IAP was the only way to charge the user for something within an app.

      A subscription is not the same as a rental charge.

      Then what analogous document is for people considering becoming iOS developers?

      There isn't one. It's developer only information.

    2. Re:People considering becoming iOS developers by tepples · · Score: 1

      There isn't one. It's developer only information.

      I am considering buying a Mac and an iPad and paying the $99 fee for my first year of the iOS developer program. But before I do so, how should I learn whether or not my application concept is banned so that I don't waste over $1,000?

    3. Re:People considering becoming iOS developers by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      I am considering buying a Mac and an iPad and paying the $99 fee for my first year of the iOS developer program.

      I'm glad you've come to your senses.

      But before I do so, how should I learn whether or not my application concept is banned so that I don't waste over $1,000?

      If you only have one app idea, you might want to try a different career.

  29. Can't crowdsource these hotspot maps on iPhone by tepples · · Score: 1

    There are apps show maps of local public access hotspots.

    Which platform do you recommend for running apps to collect data to contribute to the database used by the "apps show maps of local public access hotspots" that you mention?

    1. Re:Can't crowdsource these hotspot maps on iPhone by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      There's no collecting data involved. Public hotspots publish their locations.

      Wardriving is for finding unsecured or hackable private hotspots.

    2. Re:Can't crowdsource these hotspot maps on iPhone by tepples · · Score: 1

      Wardriving is for finding unsecured or hackable private hotspots.

      Or for finding public hotspots that haven't yet made a page for themselves in a particular database.