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Windfarm Sickness Spreads By Word of Mouth

eldavojohn writes "Just like the many stories surrounding alleged 'Wi-Fi sickness,' research is now showing that windfarm sickness spreads by word of mouth instead of applying universally to windfarms. Areas that had never had any noise or health complaints were suddenly experiencing them after 2009 when anti-wind groups targeted populations surrounding windfarms. From the article, 'Eighteen reviews of the research literature on wind turbines and health published since 2003 had all reached the broad conclusion that there was very little evidence they were directly harmful to health.' While there's unfortunately no way to prove that someone is lying about how they feel, it's likely a mixture of confirmation bias, psychosomatic response, hypochondria, greed and hatred of seeing windmills on the horizon that drives this phenomenon."

23 of 482 comments (clear)

  1. In other news by eagee · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People are still just as stupid as they've always been...

    1. Re:In other news by Kenja · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I dont know... there seems to be evidence that they're stupider.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    2. Re:In other news by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I dont know... there seems to be evidence that they're stupider.

      I'd be surprised if they were either notably smarter or notably dumber individually(Probably a few points of extra credit for nutrient abundance, a few demerits for all the mercury we've liberated since the industrial revolution); but as a system the effect might be a lot more dramatic.

      If you live in some teeny tribal kin-group, the 'believe whatever crazy shit the people around you believe, especially if they told you about it when you were a dumb kid and they were a responsible adult' heuristic is probably a pretty good one, unless you've been provided with demigod-level intelligence and unlimited time to experiment.

      In a modern, mass-media saturated environment, where you are being fed a steady stream of what feels just like social input; but is produced by people who have nothing in common with you or your situation, nor occupy the same boat as you, it's hard not to be pessimistic about the possibilities.

      If you talk only to your neighbors, feeling more or less safe based on how often crime is mentioned probably works out OK. If you sit down and tune in to the 24/7 National Sensationalist Violence Channel, you are still applying the same heuristic; but to every photogenic crime in a population north of 200million. That's going to work real well...

    3. Re:In other news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      You're just a shill for big wind. This is a legitimate controversy and anyone who disagrees with me is being paid to do so. Science has been wrong before. These people are putting profit ahead of my health! I'm not opposing science, I'm just opposing corporate greed. Mankind is toying with forces it doesn't fully understand! Have there ever been any long term studies proving that windfarms don't cause sickness?

      Please pay attention to me.

    4. Re:In other news by compro01 · · Score: 5, Informative

      The reality was the concentrations of these compounds were in like 5 ppb (parts per billion), when checked on by DNR and others. Put into perspective it was like a football field, a mile high and one marble sitting in the end zone. Pretty mild

      5PPB is "mild"?!

      You're talking about compounds with an LD50 in the micrograms/kilogram.

      Safe exposure is 4 picograms/kilogram/day

      5 ppb in your drinking water would get you about 18 micrograms/day, or 60,000-ish times that.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
  2. Someone should do this coal power by h4rr4r · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I suggest someone spread around the idea that coal power plants endager the health those nearby. A bonus is that this might actually be true.

    1. Re:Someone should do this coal power by uncle+slacky · · Score: 5, Informative

      IIRC coal plants release more radiation into the environment than nuclear plants do, so you're quite probably correct.

      --
      Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it.
    2. Re:Someone should do this coal power by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not to mention all the mercury that's currently poisoning the sea, etc.

      I love it when the greenies insist on Sea Salt because it's more 'organic' than the other stuff (which they seem to believe is made in one of the dreaded 'refineries' or something...)

      Me? I want my salt to be as refined and inorganic as possible. Na and Cl in equal proportions, nothing more.

      --
      No sig today...
    3. Re:Someone should do this coal power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      They release more radiation than nuclear plants that haven't had an accident. Unfortunately, nuclear accidents have released orders of magnitude more radiation than the entire history of operating coal plants.

      Note: I'm actually very pro-nuclear, but I think this is a fact that needs to be discussed. The coal plant radiation myth is unfounded and makes pro-nuclear people look stupid when they use it. The danger from coal plants is the stuff that doesn't have a half-life, like mercury, arsenic, and soot. The uranium they release is mostly harmless.

    4. Re:Someone should do this coal power by i+kan+reed · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Only in mass, they clearly meant molarity.

      Here's a rule: if there's an interpretation of something someone else said that is 100% accurate, don't correct them because you chose to misinterpret it.

    5. Re:Someone should do this coal power by h4rr4r · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Beef should never be well-done and does not need a sauce.

      If you cook it correctly, no more than medium-rare, it will makes it own sauce.

    6. Re:Someone should do this coal power by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Informative

      IIRC coal plants release more radiation into the environment than nuclear plants do

      This is something that is often said, but it is questionable if it is really true. When I have tried to find the sources, they all point to a single study done in 1978 by a scientist at Oak Ridge National Labratory. There are several problems with this claim:

      1. It only looked at radiation released during "normal" operation. It didn't consider accidents at nuclear plants, which in reality account for nearly all the radiation they have released.
      2. Coal plants today release far less fly ash than they did in 1978.
      3. This study was done by ORNL, which has a vested interest in pushing nukes.

      Disclaimer: I am pro-nuke, pro-windmill, and anti-coal, but I am also pro-truth, and this "factoid" about radioactive coal needs to die. There are plenty of real reasons to oppose burning coal.

    7. Re:Someone should do this coal power by satsuke · · Score: 5, Informative

      Small point, but the main reason for preferring sea salt is that it tastes different than "normal" table salt.

      Whether that is a good or bad thing is up to the individual

    8. Re:Someone should do this coal power by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I suggest someone spread around the idea that coal power plants endager the health those nearby. A bonus is that this might actually be true.

      Before scrubbers and such, one of the deadly elements thrown into the air from burning coal was Mercury.

      But that's nothing. Really.

      You've no doubt seen how hazardous Asbestos is to the lungs. People were tearing apart buildings, because floor tiling, ventillation and insulation was loaded with it. BUT ... Never mind that, all cars were whizzing around for decades with Asbestos brake linings, filling cities with the fine dust of from these as motorists slowed down or stopped here and there by the tens of millions.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    9. Re:Someone should do this coal power by dywolf · · Score: 5, Funny

      HEY HEY HEY!
      Get that common sense out of here!

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    10. Re:Someone should do this coal power by Strider- · · Score: 5, Informative

      Why can't nuclear power stand alone, out of curiosity?

      Nuclear power can't stand alone, at least with current reactor designs, because their output can't be ramped up or down very quickly. Many areas of North America (California is an example I know best) exhibit extreme daytime load peaks, followed by deep night-time lulls, due to the air conditioning load.

      Years ago, during the California power crisis, BC Hydro made a killing due to this effect. During the daytime, they would run their hydro-electric plants flat out, at completely unsustainable levels, and sell the power to California utilities at almost usurious rates. At night, they would shut the hydro plants down, allow the water to pool up again behind the dam, and buy dirt cheap nuclear power from California.

      The real point is that while Nuclear can work for the baseline load on the grid, current designs simply aren't nimble enough to meet the peaks and valleys they would face in normal day to day operation. They need to be complimented with some other power source that is more nimble.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    11. Re:Someone should do this coal power by ssam · · Score: 5, Funny

      Coal can be clean and safe too http://www.coalcares.org/cleanenergy.html

  3. The giants by Captain+Spam · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Windfarm Sickness"? Lame.

    "Don Quixote Syndrome"? Much better.

    --
    Demanding constant attention will only lead to attention.
  4. Cell phone guys already know this by hawguy · · Score: 5, Informative

    The cell phone guys already know this - people report symptoms even when the tower isn't powered on.

  5. Lack of... by Codifex+Maximus · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's probably Carbon Monoxide and Soot withdrawal that is causing these wind farm health episodes.

    --
    Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
  6. Re:But when it's RADIATION it's REAL by Technician · · Score: 5, Informative

    I can't find a reference to it at the moment, but a community was opposed to cell towers due to radiation. This caused much problems for anyone trying to build infrastructure in the area. One provider put up some towers and the residents complained that the towers radiation made them ill and the improvement on reception was only marginal.

    In a review with the community leaders, they invited them to tour the facilities while they measured the field strength. The tour revealied that there was no equipment installed. The towers were installed early to measure the baseline illness so when the equipment was installed, that illness that was attribuitable to the radiation can be measured.

    I wonder how much the baseline changed when the equipment arrived.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  7. Fight confirmation bias with a placebo by jafiwam · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They should install some garish but non functional thing on them, a big box on the side that has blinking lights, a fan, some cables and some steam-punkish looking stuff on it.

    Then tell everybody they are "Windmill Disruption Dampeners" and that the company went almost bankrupt buying them for the residents.

    Placebos work, even if the person KNOWS it's a placebo. ;)

  8. Re:California power crisis of 2000 and 2001 by HeckRuler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    OH MY EFFING GOD the libertarians will find the government at fault for anything and everything won't they? Enron and the crisis they caused and profited from were a result of deregulation. Flat out. The "changes" that were made to the regulations? They were made to encourage a free market and competition. But there's no competition if there aren't any players with any power. And BOY OH BOY did those fuckers abuse what little power they were given.

    Owning both electrical generation and the distribution of that electricity was made illegal.

    Yes, they split power generation and power distribution. That's one part of it. It made for a system of competition so that there were no longer territories of my generators and my neighbors generators. It set up a system where the old boys kept control of the distribution, and the new kids were given the generation, both were given a doggy biscuit and some ground rules for playing nice, and then set upon each other.

    That "capped retail price"? Think about that for a moment. The entire point of this deregulation thing is to lower the price of electricity to the users. Alright, that's the goal. That's the entire point. That's why they did this. They believed the free market would work it's magic and they'd see lower prices than in the old regulated system. If they can't do that, if the system on the whole doesn't produce prices below a certain point, GUESS WHAT? It turns out that deregulation doesn't work. The cap let the pain of a broken system land in corporate-ville rather than raping the customers. At least, you know, the excessive pain.

    Now let's pretend that they DIDN'T cap those prices. Enron does it's dirty work to manipulate the system and set record prices as they did before. But now the retail sellers simply pass it on to the users. WELCOME TO MONOPOLY SHITSVILLE where you can't choose which utility company to buy your power from! The competition was supposed to be between the distributors and the generators, not between the users and the power companies. Now it turns out that the generators, Enron and such, simply won that competition. Albeit from dirty tricks and accounting fraud. And the distributors suffered. But the caps kept the people from suffering AS MUCH AS they would have without such caps.

    The entire crisis was caused by the state government.

    Yes, it was caused by the state government DEREGULATING the power industry and giving more control to corporate entities. It was a pretty bad move that they shouldn't have done. Some things you can't trust in the hands of businessmen. Like those things with natural monopolies. Like utilities. Congratulations, you found where the government made it's fault.