Chinese Government Suspected of Unleashing Astroturfers Against Apple

An anonymous reader writes "A piece attacking Apple's treatment of Chinese consumers that aired on official government TV last week was followed by a wave of anti-Apple posts on Weibo (China's equivalent of Twitter) by Chinese celebrities. On the China-watching site Tea Leaf Nation, Liz Carter reports that sharp-eyed Weibo users noticed something funny about one such post from an actor and singer named Peter Ho: 'Cannot believe Apple is playing so many dirty tricks in customer service. As an Apple fan, I feel hurt...Need to post around 8:20 pm.' What was this 'need to post at 8:20 pm' business? After Weibo lit up with sarcastic tags such as #PostAround820, Ho claimed (rather unconvincingly) that someone must have hacked his account and posted the anti-Apple 'Weibo'. Mike Elgan at CultOfMac notes a parallel with the Chinese government's rough handling of Google in 2009, which led to Google's closing of its mainland operations. Google claimed that government commissioned hackers had apparently stolen search engine source code, Gmail messages and other user data. An earlier article by Elgan on Datamation notes the uneasy business relationship between Apple and China."

Comments

Why government?

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of Chinese companies are real s**ts, and a lot of Chinese companies make their own Android handsets.

IMHO, follow the money. It will be paid for troll turf from one of the China handset makers.

Also why do you think the Chinese government is some sort of magic all seeing, all acting entity? Realistically they want to project that image, but part of the reason China is such a wild west is because the Chinese government is so corrupt and no-seeing.

That's why companies like this don't fear smear tactics. Because they can always pay a bribe and walk away.

Re:Why government?

[ShanghaiBill]

Also why do you think the Chinese government is some sort of magic all seeing, all acting entity?

There is a perception that the Chinese government is a monolithic entity, with unity of purpose. This is not at all the case. Because the communist party has a monopoly on political power, everyone with ambition has to be in it. So the CCP includes people of every ideological hue, from hardcore Marxists to free market libertarians. These people often work in the same departments. Many Chinese government agencies are run by committee, rather than having a single person in charge, which results in muddled policies as factions maneuver to obstruct each other.

I spent several years working in Shanghai, and found that the same is true in most Chinese businesses. The amount of office politics, infighting and backstabbing is probably an order of magnitude worse than anything I have experienced in the US.

Re:Why government?

[Luckyo]

What, you think their Western counterparts are better?

Reality is, these Chinese companies are learning FROM Western companies. And they're just starting, I'm fully expecting them to go full Bhopal on us eventually.

And you know what? For what we did to them for last couple of centuries, it would hard as hell to argue that they're somehow worse then us and not appear both stupid and hypocritical at the same time.

Re:Why government?

[Concerned Onlooker]

What we did to them? While I fully believe the US is culpable for the woes of many places in the world I think the greatest enemy of the Chinese is the Chinese. The US didn't support Mao and the US was not complicit in the building of a police state in China.

Re:Why government?

[mc6809e]

There is a perception that the Chinese government is a monolithic entity, with unity of purpose. This is not at all the case. Because the communist party has a monopoly on political power, everyone with ambition has to be in it. So the CCP includes people of every ideological hue, from hardcore Marxists to free market libertarians.

Yeah, but the one thing they all have in common is nationalism, racism, and xenophobia.

Don't think for a second that if you're just nice to them they'll treat you fairly. They only see it as a weakness to exploit.

The only exception might be the people of Hong Kong, a great city, but even there most have benevolent feelings of superiority.

Re:Why government?

[MightyYar]

IMHO, follow the money.

I'd say it's even simpler than that. A classic method of deflecting criticism is to set up an external boogeyman. People are starting to demand employment rights from the government. The government could change, or they could set up some big, bad, foreign companies to take the rap.

The only surprise is that they didn't choose a Japanese corporation. Oh, wait, they did...

Re:Why government?

[Luckyo]

I wasn't talking about US. It's quite interesting that you inferred that particular country from the thread talking about companies.

Western companies have long since evolved to be "multinational" to avoid being too vulnerable to influence of any single country.

Re:Why government?

[Anonymous Coward]

China has more reason to bear a grudge against European countries, who were there raping China long before the US (regrettably) joined in. The US at the very least used part of its Boxer Rebellion indemnity to establish Tsinghua University, and later aided the country against Japanese expansion through lend lease and volunteer fighters, and yet again after the Sino-Soviet split, oh and once more with Most Favored Trading Nation.

What has Europe done to pay for its transgressions against China?

Re:Why government?

[icebike]

A lot of Chinese companies are real s**ts, and a lot of Chinese companies make their own Android handsets.

IMHO, follow the money. It will be paid for troll turf from one of the China handset makers.

Also why do you think the Chinese government is some sort of magic all seeing, all acting entity? Realistically they want to project that image, but part of the reason China is such a wild west is because the Chinese government is so corrupt and no-seeing.

That's why companies like this don't fear smear tactics. Because they can always pay a bribe and walk away.

If you ask me its it's no different than the fawning western press suddenly showing up with Apple articles when any other phone manufacturers release new phones. With nothing new on the table or in the product pipeline, you can count on at least a half dozen stories showing up in newspapers, websites, and blogs when ever Apple feels a little bit left out or needs some good news to counter some new product push from some random Android manufacturer.

Convince me these don't start with a phonecall from apple headquarters, or an email marked confidential, listing story "ideas" and a "must be published by" date.

If anything this is probably the Chinese government or some manufacturer taking a card out of Apple's playbook and doing it poorly.

What goes around, comes around.

Re:Why government?

[longk]

There's one important difference though: western media participates in these games because it makes them money, gets them contracts, etc. These Chinese celebrities are more likely to be strong-armed into cooperating than rewarded with a handsome sum of money.

Re:Why government?

[the eric conspiracy]

Western companies have long since evolved to be "multinational" to expand their markets.

FTFY.

Re:Why government?

[fredprado]

A company does not need to be multinational to be in the global market. Being multinational gives you some advantages in this but it is not necessary by any means.

On the other hand, the real motive to go multinational is being able to evade taxes, use cheaper labor, and evade inconvenient laws.

Re:Why government?

[BasilBrush]

There is no limit to the paranoia of Fandroids.

Re:Why government?

[SvnLyrBrto]

> What has Europe done to pay for its transgressions against China?

The generations that transgressed died off. The current generation has done nothing to them and should not be held to blame for the actions of old dead people to whom they happen to be related.

I know it's a cultural thing in some places to hold generations-long grudges against people for the "sins of their fathers". But I've never understood it. And I'll never accept it. And if that's one area where I'm just culturally-insensitive, that's one insensitivity I can live with.

Re:Why government?

[Solandri]

There was no need to infer. You specifically referred to Bhopal, which was the Indian subsidiary of a U.S. company.

Also, I disagree with your assertion that the Chinese are simply parroting what they learned from the West. I'm Asian, and the widespread Confucian ideals mean that it's very common for Asians to prioritize the group (be it family, company, or country) over the individual. What you see going on in Chinese companies is what happens when you take the Western concept of capitalism, and remove the West's strong sense of protecting individual liberties. Heck, the Chinese government's entire premise driving their rapid industrialization in the last 20 years is that by sacrificing protections for individual laborers, they can keep wages and costs artificially low, which will attract more foreign business and investments, thus allowing the country to modernize more quickly. That is, the needs of the country in the future mean the needs of the individuals today can be overlooked.

Re:Why government?

[hackingbear]

The US didn't support Mao and the US was not complicit in the building of a police state in China.

What about:

• The US didn't help the ROC to fight off the communists after WWII, causing the eventual change of power on the mainland
• After China had successfully developed nuclear bombs, the US didn't defend ROC's membership in the UN Security Council but miserably missing during a key vote that turned the key membership to the PRC.
• A few years later, a US Secretary of States and a President visited Mao during Cultural Revolution, period with a million times worse human rights violation, to ally them to fight for the Soviet
• For the same reason of fighting its cold war, the US opened its market to China

No doubt that North Korea is now learning from US-China relations. And we can predict NK will be an US ally against China in a decade. When it comes to foreign politics, no country was / is clean.

Re:Why government?

[the eric conspiracy]

Nonsense. Corporations that are not multinational will have a very difficult time competing against locals outside their base markets.

Without the actual presence in a market you cannot really grasp what products will be attractive.

It is EXACTLY this reason that US companies failed for so long getting accepted in Japan.

The idea that it has anything to do with taxes or legal issues is not at all true except perhaps in the financial industry.

Re:Why government?

[bryan1945]

Seriously. "Fawning media over Apple?" I must live in an alternate US.

Re:Why government?

[the_B0fh]

Uh, if you follow the money, Peter Ho is a paid spokesperson for Samsung...

Re:Why government?

[sessamoid]

Uh, if you follow the money, Peter Ho is a paid spokesperson for Samsung...

I'm amazed that this very important fact hasn't been mentioned or discussed at all in the comments except by the parent post. Follow the money trail? It probably ends at Samsung, a company that spends more on marketing and advertising than Apple by around a factor of 10.

Re:Why government?

[Luckyo]

1. You're buying corporate bullshit as the real thing. That makes you the very definition of "stupid".
2. Vast majority of companies that manage to agree on significant tax breaks, legislation and so on in their home country do not go multinational. Even if they have to sell on a lot of markets. Good example of this is Nokia which sold pretty much world wide very successfully except for US/Canada/Japan, while never going multinational.
Multinationals usually need to dodge relevant legislation or other rules. Good example of this is petrochemical industry that tends to pollute to the extreme. As a result it needs to avoid being held responsible as much as possible.
3. On a final note a lot of US and EU-based companies were and are very successful in even in extremely closed and xenophobic country of Japan. They do this because they don't sell to consumers but B2B.

Re:Why government?

[AmiMoJo]

Wow, you don't normally see that kind of overt racism unless you are at war. My girlfriend happens to be Chinese (doesn't speak English, lives in Japan) and neither she nor any of her friends I have met/spoken to online are like that.

I thought we were long past Ming the Merciless style stereotypes and bigotry, but I guess not.

Transnationals do the same thing

[jnmontario]

Frankly, nothing China does surprises me anymore. Rather, I think the surprising thing is that people don't want to accept massive manipulation of product presence online by transnationals and major corporations that do exactly what China is being accused of here.

Re:Transnationals do the same thing

[Nerdfest]

Yep. Sony has been doing it forever, and Microsoft seems to have become a big fan of it lately as well. FaceBook was actually caught doing it against Google.

Re:Transnationals do the same thing

[jhoegl]

The difference is the manipulation is Corp vs Corp, with traces and links to sub corps or hired PR firms. Where in China... anyone with seemingly no links or reason will start crap.
Wait a minute... Is China the most epic troll Country in the world?

Foxconn

[udachny]

Apple production facilities are in China already, aren't they? Foxconn if I am not mistaken? If Chinese GOVERNMENT wanted to hurt Apple, they'd start there.

This is not government by itself, this is some competitor using his ties to the government channels maybe?

Re:Foxconn

[Anonymous Coward]

If the government went after the Apple-Foxconn relationship, it would be obvious that they want to hurt Apple, which would draw condemnation. They don't want that; they want a groundswell of "the little people" patriotically choosing to boycott Apple in order to hurt Apple. This is the entire purpose of Astroturfing -- altering public perception WITHOUT being obvious.

Re:Foxconn

[Jane Q. Public]

"If Chinese GOVERNMENT wanted to hurt Apple, they'd start there."

It's government all right. And no, they most definitely would NOT start there.

The Chinese government is a crowd of sneaky back-stabbers. They want our business, but they also want to steal all our secrets. So they leave the businesses (mainly) alone, at least to our faces. Then they hack and grab when they think we aren't looking.

It's far past time we dropped China as a Most Favored Nation trading partner, and brought our manufacturing back home.

Re:Foxconn

[longk]

There's government and then there's government. The same thing happens in the US and elsewhere.

It's very possible that lower level government officials are pulling this off. Whether that's for their own misguided ideas or as a favor to a business friend doesn't really matter.

Don't forget the CCP has over 80 million members. That's a lot of people pulling strings and effecting actions that aren't necessarily following guidelines of whatever you would see as the central government.

Re:Foxconn

[russotto]

It's far past time we dropped China as a Most Favored Nation trading partner, and brought our manufacturing back home.

Most Favored Nation status has not existed for about 15 years. The status is now called Normal Trade Relations, and there are only two countries (Cuba and North Korea) which do not have it.

Not necessarily astroturfing

[Anonymous Coward]

I've studied Chinese history extensively (even have my Bachelor's in it). While I would not put it past the Chinese government to do this, at the same time it's a complete and total fallacy to assume that a totalitarian government akin to the Chinese one can stay in power without the strong support of a sizable minority and the tacit support or disinterest of the majority of people. Generally my experience with the Chinese shows that there are 1-3 out of every ten that support the government's actions, which is typically enough to keep them in power as long as the remaining 7 are apathetic.

Also, the Government is facing an existential crisis. They've built their legitimacy to rule on the idea that they could keep growing and prosper, and it worked as they built an export economy built on cheap labor. Now with the global economic downturn they've been unable to maintain the steady job growth, while at the same time many Chinese are prospering and looking for more than just a low paying factory job. They're trying to build a consumer economy but that shift takes time, so they've turned to nationalism instead to redirect any dissension in the populace outwards instead of inwards; see the whole Senkaku island spat between China and Japan. This is another example of it; they're turning their people ever so slightly against America to help unify them.

Re:Not necessarily astroturfing

[longk]

1-3? Living in China for 7+ years now I can tell you that probably more than 90% of them support the government. Sure they'll bitch and moan about their leades, but if you ask them which system they would prefer (China, US or something European) they're sticking to the Chinese system.

IMHO, this is no different from most western countries. We complain about our governments but very few of us would opt for the system of another country, even if that system is fairly similar to ours.

Nothing to look at here

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's move along. Post around 11:20 am.

Re:Astroturfers against Apple?

[Sponge Bath]

My Macbook drowns kittens and beats up elderly ladies. Why would Apple be that evil? [need to post about 10:25AM]

Reminds me of a story

[PPH]

Back before e-mail, someone wrote a letter to the offices of some company, complaining about their product or service. A few days later, he received a nicely worded apologetic letter. Attached to the letter was the post-it note, written by the recipient in the company which read, "Send this son-of-a-bitch our standard apology form letter."

Re:another day, another anit-China article

[Anonymous Coward]

Post around 11:38PM Shanghai time.

Re:Astroturfers against Apple?

[fyngyrz]

It's humor, son. It doesn't rise to the standard of "pathetic."

Well, unless you miss the point...

Sick of this 'got hacked' nonsense.

[Gadget27]

This has to be the third or fourth story I read in recent weeks where someone made a post or tweet that was either inappropriately worded, or outright incorrect for its purpose, as this one looks to be. In all these cases, the account owners shrug it off as their account being hacked, as if it's something so common it happens to all of us weekly, in order to cover their ass.
It seems 'my account got hacked' is quickly becoming the 21st century 'my dog ate my homework' bullshit excuse. Let's just be sure not to forget the 'bullshit' part of that.

50 Cent Brigade

[Anonymous Coward]

The Chinese Communist Party has a group of people (mostly off-duty journalists, students, and such) called the 50 Cent Brigade. They pay them the equivalent of 50 cents every time they post a comment online to sway public opinion in the direction of the Party. This group probably isn't involved with the celebrities posting stuff on Twtitter, but the intention would be the same. Keep in mind that "Perception Management" is a big thing for the Chinese Communist Party--it's why they keep the entire country's media on such a short leash, why the censor the Internet, and why they censor keywords on their permitted social media platforms.

Re:China should love Apple!

[dpidcoe]

China and Apple have the same mentality:

We know what is best for you, and we will not give you any choice about that.

There can only be one!

Re:Astroturfers against Apple?

[davester666]

That's way better than mine.

My MacBook drowns elderly ladies and beats up kittens. Probably because it's "Pro".

Well of course...

[Kupfernigk]

They have no experience of another system of government and most people are conservative. It's just like Americans being fearful of "socialised" medicine - unless they've spent enough time in Europe to get to know another system.

Another Astroturfer:

[Hartree]

It's obvious you're just a shill for the the American running dog government posting on behalf of their lackey, Apple. [need to post at 1:45 pm]

Re:China should love Apple!

[Anonymous Coward]

The OP and the moderators are astroturfing. They are, at best, anti-fanboys who can't think critically.

I can buy any product I want. There are Apple products I don't want so I don't buy them. There are others I have purchased. Apple can have whatever attitude they want to have. If I don't like something they offer as a result of that attitude, I can walk away at any time.

People who live in China don't have a choice, period. And the consequences of not going along can be dire.

To say that Apple and China are from the same mold is not only ridiculous, but so offensive to oppressed Chinese that the moderators who modded that crap up should be blacklisted from mod points for life.

Re:Astroturfers against Apple?

[Pseudonym Authority]

The iPod Touch

Re:Blah

[stenvar]

Slashdot is turning into a hypocritical pro-USA outlet

Slashdot is, and has always been, a US site.

with all this demonizing of China.

You can't "demonize" a demon. China is still a corrupt communist dictatorship.

I think the Chinese should stop beating around the bush and just kick all big American corporations out of their country.

They tried isolationism for a few centuries and it didn't work: the West surpassed them technologically and economically and then kicked their butts. The Chinese leadership is corrupt and totalitarian, but it isn't stupid. They keep Western companies in China to steal their technology, and the West plays along because we get cheap consumer goods. It's probably a reasonable deal, since technology is as short lived as a Chinese-made Barbie doll.

Re:China should love Apple!

[DavidinAla]

This is one of the most idiotic comments ever posted here, but some people hate Apple so much that it's currently modded as "insightful." To compare Apple to a totalitarian government isn't just ignorant, but it's offensive, not offensive to Apple or its customers, but to the millions and millions of people around the world who truly DON'T have a choice. If you don't like what Apple sells, you simply don't buy the product. If you want something other than what they Chinese government allows you to have, you can be put into prison or killed for asking for it. In a market economy, you have choices. Whatever Apple makes in a category is a choice. You have others. If you truly think you have no choice because Apple provides A DIFFERENT CHOICE THAN THE ONE YOU WANT, you're an idiot and a fool.

Re:China should love Apple!

[DavidinAla]

If you think that a government that kills and imprisons people for wanting to choose something different is a "similar philosophy" to a company which makes a product in a way that you wouldn't choose, you're as stupid as he is. That's the whole freaking point. It's not a "similar philosophy." One philosophy is, "You will do what we tell you." The other is, "Here's what we think is the best product possible; we want you to choose to buy it."

Re:Astroturfers against Apple?

[ozmanjusri]

At least it's better than a Ballmer squirt.