Microsoft, Partners Probed Over Bribery Claims

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Microsoft, Partners Probed Over Bribery Claims

Posted by Soulskill on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @06:47AM from the all-about-the-benjamins dept.

c0lo writes "U.S. federal authorities are examining Microsoft's involvement with companies and individuals that allegedly paid bribes to overseas government officials in exchange for business. The United States Department of Justice and the Securities and Exchange Commission have both opened preliminary investigations into the bribery allegations involving Microsoft in China, Italy and Romania. The China allegations were first shared with United States officials last year by an unnamed whistle-blower who had worked with Microsoft in the country, according to the person briefed on the inquiry. The whistle-blower said that a Microsoft official in China directed the whistle-blower to pay bribes to government officials to win business deals. U.S. government investigators are also reviewing whether Microsoft had a role in allegations that resellers offered bribes to secure software deals with Romania's Ministry of Communications. In Italy, Microsoft's dealings with consultants that specialize in customer-loyalty programs are under scrutiny, with allegations that Microsoft's Italian unit used such consultants as vehicles for lavishing gifts and trips on Italian procurement officials in exchange for government business. In a blog post Tuesday afternoon, John Frank, a vice president and deputy general counsel at Microsoft, said the company could not comment about continuing investigations. Mr. Frank said it was not uncommon for such government reviews to find that the claims were without merit. Somehow, given the way OOXML became a standard, it wouldn't surprise me if it were an actual fire that caused this smoke."

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Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 06:47 · Score: 4, Insightful

The China allegations were first shared with United States officials last year by an unnamed whistle-blower who had worked with Microsoft in the country
I don't know who this "whistle blower" was (likely a government official who they didn't bribe well enough), but EVERY company that does business in China bribes. It's more than a way of life there, it's absolutely ubiquitous. The only reason you don't have to pay bribes to breathe there is because no government official has found a way to extract them yet (and they would if at all possible). To do business there, you have to start with the knowledge that the whole goddamn country is built on two things: bribes and lies. And if you're lucky, a generous enough bribe MIGHT get you SOME of the truth every now and then. It's worse than India and Russia combined.
1. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 06:54 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  EVERY large company that does business ANYWHERE bribes.
  ftfy
2. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by supervillainsf · 2013-03-20 06:56 · Score: 1
  
  Yup, it's why the whole "expediter" industry exists - to isolate American business from the "bad things" while still being able to operate in countries where you can't even get the most basic permits without money being passed under the table.
3. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by boristdog · 2013-03-20 06:57 · Score: 2
  
  Exactly. Even small businesses in the USA. Been there, done that.
4. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by mc6809e · 2013-03-20 07:06 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  I don't know who this "whistle blower" was (likely a government official who they didn't bribe well enough), but EVERY company that does business in China bribes. It's more than a way of life there, it's absolutely ubiquitous.
  It's not just China, either.
  And calling this "bribery" isn't always correct. "Extortion" is probably just as a appropriate at times.
  Western multinationals can't do business in most parts of the world (and even US companies in parts of Europe) without some local official demanding money up front to make sure important documents like applications for permits don't "go missing", or that so-and-so's brother on some commission can be "advised" to make the right decision -- the implication being that you'll be held up if you don't pay up.
5. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 07:09 · Score: 0
  
  Not just that.. it's a have-your-pie-and-eat-it-too approach in China and India. Every company involved in a bidding process is probably asked to give a 'standard' palm-greasing or you're out of the bidding process no matter what. And once the process plays itself out bribery investigations can ensue and the government will fine you, and make money from you.
6. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 07:11 · Score: 0
  
  Don't hate the player, hate the game!
  the only way they can compete is to play by (most of) the same rules as the competition.
7. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by jhoegl · 2013-03-20 07:12 · Score: 0, Troll
  
  Cool cool...
  So this is why I pay extortion amounts of money for an OS that sucks balls every other release?
  Or how about my business paying for CALs on stupid shit that should come with the OS/Software I am working with?
  
  I am supposed to be paying for a better product and product updates, not to line the pockets of some jackass intent on jackassery.
8. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by AliasMarlowe · 2013-03-20 07:17 · Score: 1
  
  The China allegations were first shared with United States officials last year by an unnamed whistle-blower who had worked with Microsoft in the country
  I don't know who this "whistle blower" was ...
  Someone whose whistle was not blown well enough, it seems.
  
  --
  Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
9. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Runaway1956 · 2013-03-20 07:20 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  "So this is why I pay extortion amounts of money for an OS that sucks balls every other release?"
  No, not at all. You pay those extortionate amounts of money because you are unable or unwilling to "Just say "NO!"" I paid for three legitimate installations of that company's operating systems. Then, I found alternatives. Yeah, it takes a little bit of work, but it's not that hard.
  
  --
  "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
10. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by joeflies · 2013-03-20 07:28 · Score: 1
  
  The whistleblower was either working for Microsoft or on Microsoft's behalf.
  "a Microsoft official in China directed the whistle-blower to pay bribes to government officials to win business deals"
11. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by ShanghaiBill · 2013-03-20 07:33 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  EVERY large company that does business ANYWHERE bribes.
  Baloney. I have run my own business in the USA for more than twenty years. I have never paid a bribe. Not once. I have never been asked for a bribe either. If I ever was, the first thing I would do is report it to the police.
  I have also lived and worked in China, and have some employees there today. Although I have paid bribes ("facilitation fees") there, they are becoming much less common. China is trying to clean up their act, and a more "rule-based", transparent China is in everyone's best interest.
  The most common bribes paid in China today are not business bribes, but migrant workers trying to bribe their way around the Hukou System in order to send their children to public schools. The Hukou system is a form of feudalism that bonds workers to the land. Under Mao, it was used to ban all internal movement of people. Today, people are allowed to migrate, but they surrender most of their legal rights when they do so. Abolition of the Hukou would probably do more to improve human rights than any other single change in the world.
12. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 07:34 · Score: 0
  
  Somebody shoot the whistleblower into the face !and! every other investigator,
  lawyer or other court officer over this.
  BRIBES make the world go around. I can let you have something extraordinary outside the rules
  If you do something for me. Let's hold on to that, one day a bribe may save you and your family's
  lives.
13. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Sarten-X · 2013-03-20 07:35 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Yep.
  I volunteered in Ghana for several months, and saw corruption on a daily basis:
  
  I can build that new room cheap and in a month... but it'd really be better if you pay twice as much to buy this good concrete (from my brother) rather than that crappy concrete that falls apart (when mixed ignoring the directions).
  
  Your visa's still a week away from expiration, but even though it's not written anywhere, there's a $25 fine for not renewing it two weeks in advance. Yes, I collect the fee personally, as a agent of the government. Cash only.
  
  Sure, you can take this taxi to that village, but there's a $5 fee for each bag, and each pocket.
  
  Yeah, that other guy bought a machete for $40, but this identical one is my best! It's $200.
  From the stories I've heard from others, the way for Westerners to do business in Africa is to first set a budget for a project, then find a local as a project manager, with the agreement that anything left in the budget goes into his pocket.
  
  --
  You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
14. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by JDG1980 · 2013-03-20 07:39 · Score: 2
  
  I don't know who this "whistle blower" was (likely a government official who they didn't bribe well enough), but EVERY company that does business in China bribes. It's more than a way of life there, it's absolutely ubiquitous. The only reason you don't have to pay bribes to breathe there is because no government official has found a way to extract them yet (and they would if at all possible). To do business there, you have to start with the knowledge that the whole goddamn country is built on two things: bribes and lies. And if you're lucky, a generous enough bribe MIGHT get you SOME of the truth every now and then. It's worse than India and Russia combined.
  Under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977, paying bribes to officials overseas is a violation of American law if it's done by a U.S. business. While there are a few exceptions to this ("facilitation payments" for non-discretionary bureaucratic work, for example) they are very narrow and often fail to cover the wide range of situations where real-world foreign officials demand handouts. The result is that it's often illegal to be the victim of a shakedown if you're doing business overseas. Now it's certainly possible that Microsoft is as much perpetrator as victim in this case, but the FCPA is far too broad and really needs to be substantially revisited.
15. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by number17 · 2013-03-20 07:40 · Score: 2
  
  As one Former US Senator put it, lobbying is "not legalized bribery, it's legalized extortion." And it's not extortion by companies, but extortion by politicians.
  
  http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120406/18051618415/is-lobbying-closer-to-bribery-extortion.shtml
16. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by poetmatt · 2013-03-20 07:41 · Score: 1
  
  which sounds nice until you realize that US laws expressly prohibit it, whether it's the way things work over there or not.
17. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by juancn · 2013-03-20 07:45 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  It is pervasive in many places. Since the US frowns upon US companies bribing foreign officials, there are many consulting firms local to the country in question that take care of the bribes. These are never mentioned explicitly, so the US company doesn't actually pay the bribes, it just pays the consulting firm. And the consulting firm takes care of the bribes. That way you have deniability.
  Since the consulting firm is out of reach from the SEC et.al. discovery is a bitch and the cases cannot normally be pursued (unless you get one of the officials to testify, which is at least difficult).
18. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 08:00 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  You are a complete idiot who is incapable of comprehending the English language.
19. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 08:02 · Score: 1
  
  I have never paid a bribe.
  and
  Although I have paid bribes ("facilitation fees") there,
  made the rest of your post worthless
  It's obvious that the first statement is an inferred "I have never paid a bribe in the US" while the second statement is talking about the state of things in China.
  Either a very bad attempt at trolling, or a reading comprehension failure on your part.
20. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by s.petry · 2013-03-20 08:02 · Score: 2
  
  The subject including the statement about not paying bribes was referring to the US. Remaining paragraphs are about China. WTF do people learn in school today? No, really? Why can't you grasp the basics of your own language? Sadly you are not unique in your inability to perform basic reading comprehension tasks. Learn what a paragraph is, and how they are used.
  
  --
  -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
21. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by ShanghaiBill · 2013-03-20 08:04 · Score: 0
  
  the FCPA is far too broad and really needs to be substantially revisited.
  I strongly disagree. As an American, I am proud that my country has provided moral leadership in this area. The effect of the FCPA is not always negative on American businesses. Citizens of other countries know about the FCPA, and there is a perception that if a contract goes to an American company, that the bidding process was more likely to be clean. Also, American companies don't just passively accept losing business to less ethically constrained competitors. They have an incentive to work for cleaner processes. When they lose, they often raise a stink, and publicize the corruption. Corruption is still common in many countries, but Transparency International and other corruption indexes show that we are moving in the right direction. FCPA is a reason for that.
22. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by hedwards · 2013-03-20 08:07 · Score: 2
  
  Your post is exactly why the US bars people from bribing foreign officials. You won't be in the kind of position where a bribe will save the lives of loved ones if they aren't expecting to be paid off. Chances are good that if they were wanting to just kill the people that they'd do it, if they're asking for bribe money to help, chances are good that money is the motivating factor.
  The US is one of the better countries in terms of prosecuting their own citizens for bribing foreign officials. The main hope we have for eliminating third world poverty is eliminating bribery as an acceptable means of getting things done. It's no coincidence that the worst countries for bribery are also the ones with the worst economies over all. Compared with that, the US has no corruption worth mentioning.
23. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by hedwards · 2013-03-20 08:09 · Score: 1
  
  And with good reason. The only way these practices stop is if companies stop doing business like that. As American companies, they generally have options of where to take their business that local companies don't.
  The only problem here is that there aren't enough countries signing on to these sorts of initiatives. Corruption has no place in civilized society and ultimately, foreign companies usually have a lot more money and influence over them than domestic companies would.
24. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 08:11 · Score: 0
  
  In China, that's called a "facilitator" or "expediter" (aka, a local who deals with bribes). And if one is ratting you out, it's because someone "encouraged" him to do it (likely either a government official who threatened him or another company that bribed him).
25. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by CannonballHead · 2013-03-20 08:12 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  WTF do people learn in school today?
  That they are special and should get what they deserve regardless of how hard they work? ;)
26. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Looker_Device · 2013-03-20 08:15 · Score: 1
  
  Shall we put you in charge of arresting the CEO of every single company that has every done business in China?
  
  --
  Your political party doesn't care about your rights and only represents corporate interests.
27. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by David_Hart · 2013-03-20 08:16 · Score: 2
  
  "So this is why I pay extortion amounts of money for an OS that sucks balls every other release?"
  No, not at all. You pay those extortionate amounts of money because you are unable or unwilling to "Just say "NO!"" I paid for three legitimate installations of that company's operating systems. Then, I found alternatives. Yeah, it takes a little bit of work, but it's not that hard.
  It is that hard... or more people would be doing it...
  Apple keeps telling us that it's all about the apps. Well, Windows still has all of the apps, games, productivity software, financial software, etc. OSX does have some of these apps, but you are severely limited in choice. As far as games, Windows is "still the only game in town"...
28. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by DNS-and-BIND · 2013-03-20 08:23 · Score: 1
  
  No they don't. I know tons of foreign companies here in China and nobody bribes anybody. This is a fallacy held by people who have just read about China from horridly biased Western news reports. Hey, don't believe me, read this from an attorney specializing in China law for foreign companies:
  "One of the things I have always found troubling about Westerners doing business in emerging market countries is that they sometimes take an almost perverse pride in discussing payoffs to government officials. It is as though their having paid a bribe is a symbol of their international sophistication and insider knowledge. Yet, countless times when I am told of the bribe, I know the very same thing could almost certainly have been accomplished without a bribe."
  --Dan Harris, chinalawblog.com
  You should go read his blog. It's highly informative and is chock full of real-life situations. If you are stupid enough to bribe a government official and it becomes critical to your business, you're totally screwed whenever he retires or goes to jail for corruption (the only two possible outcomes to your relationship).
  
  --
  Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
29. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by LordLimecat · 2013-03-20 08:27 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, waiters should be quite happy with the $2.10 /hour they make.
  You do realize that many tipped services pay quite a bit lower, because theyre essentially commission-based?
30. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by NoKaOi · 2013-03-20 08:28 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  And calling this "bribery" isn't always correct. "Extortion" is probably just as a appropriate at times.
  Or, in the US, where it's called "campaign contributions" and "lobbying."
31. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by s.petry · 2013-03-20 08:49 · Score: 1
  
  Sadly true. I heard a stat on the radio this morning that 80% of the people graduating from NYC are illiterate. Since the source was Rush Limbaugh I would have fact checked that if it was a different stat. This one, I have no doubts as to it being correct.
  
  --
  -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
32. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 08:51 · Score: 0
  
  It's (corruption in China) worse than India and Russia combined
  Given that the Chinese economy is greater than Indian and Russia combined, are you suggesting India and Russia should be copying China?
33. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 09:00 · Score: 0
  
  The America allegations were first shared with Chinese officials last year by an unnamed whistle-blower who had worked with Microsoft in the country
  I don't know who this "whistle blower" was (likely a government official who they didn't bribe well enough), but EVERY company that does business in America bribes. It's more than a way of life there, it's absolutely ubiquitous. The only reason you don't have to pay bribes to breathe there is because no government official has found a way to extract them yet (and they would if at all possible). To do business there, you have to start with the knowledge that the whole goddamn country is built on two things: bribes and lies. And if you're lucky, a generous enough bribe MIGHT get you SOME of the truth every now and then. It's worse than India and Russia combined.
  Do I get modded Insightful as well?
  Parent up certainly said nothing more than I did?
34. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 09:08 · Score: 0
  
  It is that hard... or more people would be doing it...
  No, it's not hard, the reason more people aren't doing it is because Windows isn't that bad, changing is easy but there's no value in changing.
35. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 09:12 · Score: 0
  
  america has just changed the names of them, they are now called "lobbying" and "campaign contributions", these are all just bribes, payoffs to politicians to swing the government to make laws in their favor. but ignorance is bliss for you i see.
36. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by magic+maverick+ · 2013-03-20 09:21 · Score: 2
  
  With regard the second one (visa and fee), I suggest asking for a receipt.
  With the third one (taxi), just walk away, find another taxi.
  With the fourth one (machete), just walk away; the person will probably call you back. You might not get the $40 price (white man tax) but you should be able to get it down to $60 or so.
  OK, I can't speak for Ghana, but I think that just walking away is a good option in almost any case like the ones you mentioned (where you have other options anyway, which is obviously not the case with the govt.).
  With regards actual bribery to government officials, I don't have much advice.
  
  --
  HELP MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HACKED BY AN ILLIBERAL ART STUDENT SET TO DESTROY THE INTERWEBZ!
37. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 10:24 · Score: 0
  
  The China allegations were first shared with United States officials last year by an unnamed whistle-blower who had worked with Microsoft in the country (and is now employed by Google ), according to the person briefed on the inquiry.
  FTFT
38. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 10:32 · Score: 0
  
  And that shouldn't be legal.
39. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 10:38 · Score: 0
  
  I'm a simple man, so instead of a long winded treatise, I'll just come right out and say it:
  POT, KETTLE, BLACK
40. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 10:39 · Score: 0
  
  The statement was a bit trollish, but I did hear that if you don't tip you're likely to not get quality service next time you come to the restaurant/bar.
  And there's no point in rationalizing tipping in general, since there are many places in the world where waiters get by just fine without tips.
  There's no physical law that says waiters must have low wages and live off tips. It's like this in the US, but that's just a local tradition/cultural practice.
41. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 10:54 · Score: 0
  
  Lockheed was caught in a high profile military equipment bribery scandal in Japan a number of years back.
  Airbus was in a bribery scandal in Canada that went all the way to the Prime Minister (as did the Lockheed Japan circus I believe).
  I don't think your jealousy of China is necessarily guided by sound judgement.
42. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by darth_borehd · 2013-03-20 11:25 · Score: 1
  
  My company has a strict policy against bribes.
43. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by RocketRabbit · 2013-03-20 11:56 · Score: 1
  
  That was in the old days. Now, this extortion is simply called free speech and since companies are officially people, we can't have anybody muzzling them.
44. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by tompaulco · 2013-03-20 12:04 · Score: 1
  
  Baloney. I have run my own business in the USA for more than twenty years. I have never paid a bribe. Not once. I have never been asked for a bribe either.
  Never taken a client to lunch? Never gave or loaned a product to a client? Never paid for hotel rooms for clients for a user convention? All of these are bribes as well, just not direct monetary bribes. And because everybody does it, they are not looked down upon. The reason this story is a story is because China's "everybody does it" is different from our "everybody does it".
  
  --
  If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
45. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by tompaulco · 2013-03-20 12:17 · Score: 2
  
  Yes, waiters should be quite happy with the $2.10 /hour they make.
  You do realize that many tipped services pay quite a bit lower, because theyre essentially commission-based?
  Waitstaff should be paid an amount expected of them for a level of service as defined by the restaurant. A tip should be paid on service above and beyond this level of service. A complaint to management should be made on service less than expected. It should not be up to a customer to pay a tip for "average" service. That is what the waitstaff is supposed to provide and what the restaurant is supposed to pay the employee to do. I am quite sure that they need to pay far more than $2.10 for a typical waiter. Probably more like $8-$10 an hour. Then if the waitstaff performs above expectations, they receive a tip above and beyond that.
  
  --
  If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
46. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by LordLimecat · 2013-03-20 14:13 · Score: 1
  
  The statement was a bit trollish, but I did hear that if you don't tip you're likely to not get quality service next time you come to the restaurant/bar.
  Yes, the whole point of a tip is To Insure Promptness, and the idea (as with any commission based service) is that the better a job someone does, the better they get paid. If the waiter busts their butt and you dont pay well, what incentive do they have to bust their butt next time?
  TL;DR GP doesnt understand commissions and merit-based pay.
47. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by LordLimecat · 2013-03-20 14:15 · Score: 1
  
  . I am quite sure that they need to pay far more than $2.10 for a typical waiter. Probably more like $8-$10 an hour
  You are quite wrong. Ive waited several places and have family who has done the same. None of them provide above minimum wage for tipped staff, which was (~2003-2005) 2.10 / hr, 5.00 / hr for overtime.
  In the event that your tips did not meet normal minimum wage, you would be compensated to hit minimum. However, what youre suggesting does not exist as a standard practice in the US AFAIK; certainly the national chains I worked at do not seem to be unusual in how they pay their staff.
48. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 15:17 · Score: 0
  
  Attention all you racists:
  I am 2/3 Italian and 2/5 Romanian (check my math, not my strong subject), and I have a real problem with you bastards ignoring Italy/Romania.
  What's all the hoopla with those slanty eye Chinks? Are we any less corrupt than them Chinks? I think not!
  But all I read is Chinky here, Chinky there.
  I want equal time you fucken racist bastards!
49. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 15:25 · Score: 0
  
  I believe that stat comes from a CBS story. 80% of people going to community college need remedial courses. That isn't really that shocking. Reliable literacy rates are hard to come by. But from what I briefly researched official stats put the U.S. at 99% while literacy advocacy groups put it around 70%. Meaning even high estimates put illiteracy at 30%. 80% illiteracy is hard to take at face value, you should have doubted it.
50. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by tompaulco · 2013-03-20 16:58 · Score: 2
  
  . I am quite sure that they need to pay far more than $2.10 for a typical waiter. Probably more like $8-$10 an hour
  You are quite wrong. Ive waited several places and have family who has done the same. None of them provide above minimum wage for tipped staff, which was (~2003-2005) 2.10 / hr, 5.00 / hr for overtime.
  In the event that your tips did not meet normal minimum wage, you would be compensated to hit minimum. However, what youre suggesting does not exist as a standard practice in the US AFAIK; certainly the national chains I worked at do not seem to be unusual in how they pay their staff.
  No, I am not wrong. They do need to pay $8-$10 for a waiter. It just so happens that they don't. That is the crux of my point.
  
  --
  If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
51. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by LordLimecat · 2013-03-20 18:22 · Score: 1
  
  Waiters get paid ~$10-50 / hour off of tips. There is no need for their wages to be higher, and I dont think you would find any but the laziest and worst waiters willing to trade their tips for a crappy $10 / hr. I made an average of $12 / hour on crappy nights 10 years ago; today it would probably be closer to $16-18, and upwards of $40/ hour on friday / saturday nights.
  Have you actually ever worked as a waiter?
52. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Pubstar · 2013-03-20 21:29 · Score: 2
  
  They probably haven't. On good nights (Friday/Saturday/Holidays) at the restaurant I used to work at (Wood Ranch in Southern California - average plate is $20) I could hit $300 in tips easily (after tipping out the bar staff and busboy accordingly). The trick was to make sure that their beers were always flowing. Give drunk people good service, and they really overtip. Rest of the week was really a wash, would barely make above minimum.
53. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Pubstar · 2013-03-20 21:32 · Score: 2
  
  Thats like saying every woman I took to dinner and slept with later is a prostitute. Sure, I didn't pay her DIRECTLY, but there was money involved going directly towards something for her.
54. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 23:32 · Score: 0
  
  With the fourth one (machete), just walk away; the person will probably call you back. You might not get the $40 price (white man tax) but you should be able to get it down to $60 or so.
  It might be safer to just pay full price: the guy has a machete and you don't.
55. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Sarten-X · 2013-03-21 01:27 · Score: 1
  
  For the sake of completing the story:
  The first was solved by a long and insistent argument that ended with the builder giving up and mixing the concrete correctly.
  The second one I ended up paying, and I did get a receipt, which was promptly handed over to the police when I reported the corruption. That report was probably promptly discarded. As you said, there's not much hope for government corruption.
  The third was when I discovered my wife's negotiating skills. I'm pretty sure she's memorized the standard rates for every connection between every village in Ghana, and she can enforce them, too.
  The fourth I ended up getting a different machete, which looked identical enough to me (as I was intending to bring it back to the States as a wall decoration), but was apparently only worth $40 to the seller. Maybe the other one was indeed better, or maybe the seller just didn't want to risk me walking away, but either way I paid the same price as a local and I now have a machete as a coat hook.
  
  --
  You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
56. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by tqk · 2013-03-21 05:45 · Score: 1
  
  It is that hard... or more people would be doing it...
  No, it's not. People are lazy, or they prefer to conform, or they want to be safe. FLOSS is very easy to use, once you grow a backbone.
  
  --
  "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
57. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by tqk · 2013-03-21 07:04 · Score: 1
  
  I can let you have something extraordinary outside the rules If you do something for me. Let's hold on to that, one day a bribe may save you and your family's lives.
  Think "loaded gun." It doesn't care. If it's pointed at you, you may have a big problem. If you're pointing it, you may have less of a problem, but (apparently) still a problem (else why would you be pointing it?). Anyone can bribe, given enough cash and corruptible officials. How much are you willing to pay, as compared to your opposition?
  Given the choice between dieing slowly or quickly, which appears the more palatable choice to you? I can go on and on for days on this, splitting hairs left and right. "How slow is "slowly"?, & etc.
  
  --
  "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
58. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by tompaulco · 2013-03-21 07:06 · Score: 1
  
  Thats like saying every woman I took to dinner and slept with later is a prostitute. Sure, I didn't pay her DIRECTLY, but there was money involved going directly towards something for her.
  Yup, it's all a line drawing game.
  But no, taking a woman to dinner is not prostitution, it's gambling.
  
  --
  If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
59. Re: Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 05:39 · Score: 0
  
  But those are paid to Americans
60. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by poetmatt · 2013-03-22 08:51 · Score: 1
  
  what do I personally have to do with the situation? What type of strawman comment is that? Last I checked, I have zero association. It's not my issue, but I also don't write the laws or enforce them.
61. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by sjames · 2013-03-24 06:47 · Score: 1
  
  No player = no game. Hate both in full measure and there will soon be no player and no game to hate.
62. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by sjames · 2013-03-24 06:57 · Score: 1
  
  It is that hard... or more people would be doing it...
  Except that each of them applied the quoted fallacy.
63. Re:Hate to defend M$ in any way, but by sjames · 2013-03-24 07:01 · Score: 1
  
  No, it is only illegal to continue after being victimized by an attempted shakedown. Walk away and leave them to decay in their own pile of excrement and you're fine as far as U.S. law is concerned.
Biased submission by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 06:54 · Score: 0, Troll

"Somehow, given the way OOXML became a standard, it wouldn't surprise me if it were an actual fire that caused this smoke."
Yea, care to back that accusation up? You're posting borderline slander, your link doesn't even point to anything except for a bunch of whiny sore losers.
1. Re:Biased submission by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 07:21 · Score: 0
  
  No - it is opinion. And based on the fact that the "committees" were stuffed with MS paying for membership, holding meetings in rooms too small for all the members, employees misrepresenting themselves...
2. Re:Biased submission by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 07:24 · Score: 0
  
  "You're posting borderline slander,"
  He said: "Life on the border is a little bit rough, "If you're gonna love me, you gotta be tough. "Beyond the law, anything goes, "When you're livin' on the edge of Mexico." I heard all he said but I didn't believe, Not till I tried to keep him close to me. He rode away in a cloud of dust, Chasin' Laredo and Lady Luck. His bags were full of who knows what? I knew what I had to do. Girls ride horses too. I rode all day, trackin' him down. Spent the night on dangerous ground. Smellin' the smoke of the distant fire, Feelin' the flame of my desires. Well, nothin' in the desert is what it seems, I ran up numbers in my dreams. He rode away in a cloud of dust, Chasin' Laredo and Lady Luck. His bags were full of who knows what? I knew what I had to do. Girls ride horses too. I crossed the river as the sun came up. Drank his Tequila from a silver cup. Traded his bags for a sack of gold, An' got a little taste of Mexico. If he's gonna love me, he's gotta get tough. Life on the border is a little bit rough. He rode away in a cloud of dust, Chasin' Laredo and Lady Luck. His bags were full of who knows what? I did what I had to do. Oh, he rode away in a cloud of dust, Chasin' Laredo and Lady Luck. His bags were full of who knows what? I did what I had to do. Girls ride horses too. Girls ride horses too. Oh, girls ride horses too. I did what I had to do. Oh, girls ride horses too. I did what I had to do.
3. Re:Biased submission by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 09:28 · Score: 0
  
  No - it is opinion. And based on the fact that the "committees" were stuffed with MS paying for membership, holding meetings in rooms too small for all the members, employees misrepresenting themselves...
  So who are the corrupt officials that allowed this to happen?! They are the problem, in China bribes are the cost of doing business because that's the way the system works in China and it's absolutely no different with these standards bodies, they are easily bought off because they are corrupt.
Whistleblower eh? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 06:54 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Shouldn't we detain the whistleblower indefinitely and call them a traitor? Oh wait...this information hepls the government potentially collect a fine. Nevermind...move along.
Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by girlinatrainingbra · 2013-03-20 06:54 · Score: 4, Insightful

Considering how frequently the MS sales people seem to present a new option with lower licensing prices whenever a city or governmental agency is about to jump ship and get on board with Linux, isn't that sudden presentation of huge discounts almost like a bribe? Yes, i know that a bribe goes to a separate person in order for a transaction to go through, but when you've got to discount your prices that much for people to buy your stuff, that doesn't seem like a good sign!
.
And before some idiot goes the other way and sez "gnu/linux must suck real bad since the only way they get people to take it is to give it away for free!", realize that the concept of Free software (with liberty) being free (of price and cost) is secondary to the freedom it gives to the end-user and the things that come back to the developer(s) with GNU-GPL-licensed software. The freedom is an inherent essence to free software. It's not priced at $zero because people don't want it. It's priced at $zero because the community of developers believes in giving away and sharing the fruits of their labor to the community of the world
1. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 07:04 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Discounts != Bribes, even if it's Microsoft offering them. It's called being competitive.
2. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by BitZtream · 2013-03-20 07:09 · Score: 0, Troll
  
  No, fanboy. Its given away for no dollar amounts because the entire community expects someone else to do their work for them. Linux is in no way free, contrary to how you like to warp the usage of the word. It comes with some very well defined restrictions, and those restrictions tend to attempt to infect everything around them, which is a fairly high cost to everyone who doesn't thinks they can live in a fantasy hippie commune.
  Its rather hipocritcal and ignorant of you to pretend pushing your political agenda is different than Microsoft pushing theirs. The reality of it is you don't give a flying fuck about 'open' so much as 'I don't have to pay for it'. And so does 99% of the rest of the 'free software' community. Pretending its about being 'open' is just a farce used to push your agenda via deception. If you cared about actual freedom, you wouldn't be fanboying for a license organization.
  
  --
  Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
3. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 07:10 · Score: 0
  
  And before some idiot goes the other way and sez "gnu/linux must suck real bad since the only way they get people to take it is to give it away for free!", realize that the concept of Free software (with liberty) being free (of price and cost) is secondary to the freedom it gives to the end-user and the things that come back to the developer(s) with GNU-GPL-licensed software. The freedom is an inherent essence to free software. It's not priced at $zero because people don't want it. It's priced at $zero because the community of developers believes in giving away and sharing the fruits of their labor to the community of the world
  
  ...and what does that say about people who choose BSD-style licenses over GPL? I'd say you described it pretty well, but for GPL with the added benefit "believes in giving away and sharing the fruits of their labor to the community that also wants to give everything to the community". It's similar to those churches that have a dress code or membership price. "Sure, we'll help you out, assuming you're going to do what's in our interests"
4. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 07:12 · Score: 0
  
  Whoever -1 this is obviously a freetard who has no idea how business function with each other. If your pizza place discounted your pie because you were thinking of going to another pizza shop, would that be a bribe? Probably only if it's Microsoft pizza, right?
5. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 07:12 · Score: 0
  
  It's priced at $zero because the community of developers believes in giving away and sharing the fruits of their labor to the community of the world
  And some companies/developers charge for software because that's the model that makes sense for them. And some companies/developers give stuff away for free but make ad-revenue because that's the model that makes sense for them. All are valid models (including open source) -- get over yourself -- discounts don't imply a company in trouble.
6. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by gurps_npc · 2013-03-20 07:23 · Score: 1
  
  You know why you are wrong you still persist in your belief.
  That is because you don't understand what is going on.
  There is nothing wrong with offering discounts. It is common behavior. Do you think a store is doing something wrong because they have a sale? If so you are a fool. Discounts - real and fake (i.e. raise the price by 11% then offer 10% 'discount') are there for a reason - people like to to think they are getting a deal and sometimes it is reasonable to give them one. Particularly if for example their are large costs per sale and someone buys in bulk (i.e. saving you those large marketing costs).
  A bribe on the other hand is very different. Instead of lowering the cost, it raises the cost. It is a crime not against the person paying the bribe, but against the organization that hired the briber. That is, when Ford bribes a Banana Republic official to buy 1971 Pintos, instead of Dodge Chargers, it is the Banana Republic that is getting ripped off and Chrysler not Ford.
  Because the Banana Republic official is not doing his job - to pick the best car, as opposed to doing his job.
  When I pay you to do your job wrong, that is a problem. There is nothing wrong with giving someone a discount.
  
  --
  excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
7. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by DaveGod · 2013-03-20 07:25 · Score: 1
  
  No that is not almost (or at all, in any way, shape or form) like a bribe. It is completely and fundamentally different from being a bribe, for the reason you state.
8. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 07:28 · Score: 0
  
  LOL, this sounds like every troll I've ever heard.
  The GPL is not infectious. Valve is legally deploying Steam onto Linux (using the Linux API which is GPL) without having to release any of their code.
  Quit spouting the FUD. The majority of developers in the free/open source software community do it because they feel that it is the superior method, not because they're hippies.
9. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 07:32 · Score: 0
  
  How the hell did this troll get modded up??
10. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 07:45 · Score: 0
  
  Valve is legally deploying Steam onto Linux (using the Linux API which is GPL) without having to release any of their code.
  While Valve indeed shows that GPL isn't infectious, it actually proves the GP's other points, fellow AC
  On one hand, bringing it to Linux is welcomed by some, as it will promote the popularity of Linux. This supports the GP's point that free platforms needing "other people to do the work for them". Linux and free software can't be attractive enough, you need proprietary software to bring in people.
  On the other hand, there's a segment in the community that swears off DRM due to its freedom restricting nature, and on that basis swear off Valve and Steam. The fact other segments of the community is giving Valve a pass proves the GP's other point that people are only pretending to care about freedom.
11. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by girlinatrainingbra · 2013-03-20 07:58 · Score: 2
  
  re: your statement "The reality of it is you don't give a flying fuck about 'open' so much as 'I don't have to pay for it'."
  .
  Hey, big boy, don't bother trying to put words in my mouth. The reality of it is that you have no fucking idea what's in my mind. What is in my mind is the freedom of the software, not that it is free of cost. The fact that it is free of cost, and unencumbered by the idiocracy of the BSA (boy scouts or software, take your pick) trying to beat down your door to check to see if you've got
  (a) - valid licenses
  (b) - the correcto number of licenses
  (c) - a way for them to anally probe your hardware and software frequently in perpetuity to make sure you keep dancing when they tell you to
  is worth a lot more to me than the useless crap that other people are willing to pay for.
  .
  You know that the internet you're using right now to post your comments on? "You didn't build that!" (ha ha ha) In fact, Microsoft didn't even see the internet coming 'til it started passing them by and Trumpet-WinSock gave people a way to do dial-up access to TCP-IP. Seriously, look it up. Microsoft must have thought that the internet was going to be a fad, right?
  .
  So please don't try to read my mind or put words in my mouth or voice opinions for me. And also, sharpen your reading skills. This person here whom you tried to denigrate as a "fanboy" is a girl. ;>p
  .
  And if you don't want Linux and GNU to "infect you", buddy-boy, nobody in the world is forcing you to use it. (and you probably have enough infections as it is.... ooh, your mean-ness is pretty contagious!)
12. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by girlinatrainingbra · 2013-03-20 08:10 · Score: 1
  
  You are indeed correct, and I was pretty sure I thought that way too (which is why I included that line of reasoning). It just seems underhanded how they try to undercut or lowball the price when things aren't going their way. That sort of low-ball bidding is a different kind of corruption than bribery. I was trying to see if there was a way to see it as a form of bribery style of corruption, and I can see now that there's probably not a valid way to equate the two. Still seems bad though, IMHO. Thanks for the even-handed tone and reply. :>)
13. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by s.petry · 2013-03-20 08:14 · Score: 1
  
  Wait. Did a troll just call someone a fanboi? In addition to the inaccurate description of the GPL, you also have a false statement. Its given away for no dollar amounts because the entire community expects someone else to do their work for them. Wait, what? So Linus expects all his Kernel development to be done by someone else? That is absolutely wrong. It's not even an exaggeration, it's a flat out lie.
  The rest of your rant just backs your trolling MS Fanboi position. Keep it to yourself.
  
  --
  -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
14. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by hedwards · 2013-03-20 08:16 · Score: 1
  
  This is just plain ignorant. The GPL has never applied to the Linux API, doing so would make absolutely no sense. It applies to the source files, if Valve isn't changing any of those files, then there's no point in releasing that source code as they can just point to the place where they got it from, as it's the exact same source they're using.
  Now, were they to include actual Linux source into the Steam Linux client, that would be a completely different matter, they would have to provide all that source to anybody that wants it. But, that's a completely different matter.
  Then again, you're a troll, so who really cares what you think about it.
15. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by hedwards · 2013-03-20 08:17 · Score: 1
  
  Valve doesn't prove that. The GPL has never applied to the interface. Now, if Valve includes GPL source into their client and doesn't have to license the whole client as GPL, then you'll have a point.
16. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 08:39 · Score: 0
  
  oh, so you had the operation then?
17. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by s.petry · 2013-03-20 08:46 · Score: 1
  
  Actually Microsoft thought the internet would fail. If you remember, Ballmer made a fool of himself at Windows 95 release because it only included NetBUI protocols. I'm too lazy to go dig up quotes, but they are there. Something along the lines of no business would ever use something that everyone else would be able to access. It was not until Windows 95B that MS shipped their own (albeit pathetic for many reasons) TCP/IP drivers with Windows, and it was not installed by default. If memory serves correctly, Win98 first rev did not have TCP/IP drivers installed by default either.
  
  --
  -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
18. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 09:20 · Score: 0
  
  Whoever posted this is obviously a capitalistic pig who has no idea that "business as usual" where corporations leverage their market share to win better discounts is a form of corruption and breaks their precious fairy-land of the free-market and makes a barrier to entry for disruptive forces from competing with the establishment.
19. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 09:29 · Score: 0
  
  "I was trying to see if there was a way to see it as a form of bribery style of corruption, and I can see now that there's probably not a valid way to equate the two."
  Dissembling: 1.adoption of false appearance: the creation or adoption of a false appearance in order to conceal facts, feelings, or intentions.
  You trolled, and you got called out.
20. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 09:33 · Score: 0
  
  "It just seems underhanded how they try to undercut or lowball the price when things aren't going their way. That sort of low-ball bidding is a different kind of corruption than bribery."
  What? You've never heard of discounts before? You think discounts are some sort of tactic invented by Microsoft? Damn, it's unbearable to see someone allow their hate to dominate their rationality so utterly and completely.
21. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 09:39 · Score: 0
  
  You know that the internet you're using right now to post your comments on? "You didn't build that!" (ha ha ha) In fact, Microsoft didn't even see the internet coming 'til it started passing them by and Trumpet-WinSock gave people a way to do dial-up access to TCP-IP. Seriously, look it up. Microsoft must have thought that the internet was going to be a fad, right?
  
  This is such ancient baggage you're carrying around. Microsoft played a part as did many others in bringing the world to the state it's in now. Open your mind a little.
22. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 09:58 · Score: 0
  
  This is just plain ignorant. The GPL has never applied to the Linux API, doing so would make absolutely no sense.
  Hilarious that you call them 'ignorant' and 'troll' when you clearly haven't heard of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL, which is a method of applying the GPL to exported Linux API functions.
23. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 10:02 · Score: 0
  
  Stop making sense, shill.
24. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 11:10 · Score: 0
  
  I take it you're referring to the headers, and those were never covered under the GPL. The source code is included in the GPL, but the GPL does not now nor has it ever required code that links to GPL source to be licensed as GPL code.
25. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 13:05 · Score: 0
  
  I take it you're referring to the headers, and those were never covered under the GPL.
  No, why would you think that? I'm referring to symbols exported with EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL.
  
  The source code is included in the GPL, but the GPL does not now nor has it ever required code that links to GPL source to be licensed as GPL code.
  Except where functions linked to are exported with EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL.
26. Re:Are huge discounts almost like bribes? by sjames · 2013-03-24 07:17 · Score: 1
  
  I once tried to set up a perfectly legit MS solution for a client. Confusing would be an understatement when describing the license requirements. I was genuinely unsure how many of what type of license was required for the setup to be legit. So I called MS and got an answer, but they sounded a bit unsure. So I called again and gave the same description and got an entirely different answer. A third call got another distinct answer. Note that MS will NOT certify the answer you get and will not provide any sort of documentation that they have agreed that you are in compliance.
  Translation, it doesn't matter how honest you are, you can still get busted by the BSA if they disagree with you and the MS CSR you spoke with about how many of what license is required.
  I wouldn't go top a box store that reserves the right to decide you stole from them at some later date even when you hand them the amount of money they asked for and I won't buy from MS either.
No shit? Really? I'm shocked ... by BitZtream · 2013-03-20 07:04 · Score: 0

While this sort of qualifies as 'for nerds', I fail to see how something that anyone with an ounce of common sense and passing interest in current technology events would consider this news.

--
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Bribery in Romania ? You don't say :) by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 07:06 · Score: 3, Informative

FYI: Microsoft Romania has an official budget line for "greasing decision factors" and it's so widely known that they are "very generous" that everyone expects them to bribe.
Posting as AC, from Romania :-)
1. Re:Bribery in Romania ? You don't say :) by Psyborgue · 2013-03-20 10:00 · Score: 1
  
  Mod parent as informative. I lived in Romania for five years. If you wanted something done, you needed to pay a bribe, even for things as mundane as getting your trash picked up properly. Even for things like medical treatment. That's how it was in the late 90s, and based on how saturated the society was in corruption, i seriously doubt anything has changed. It's just the culture. You could blame the culture on a reaction to the bureaucratic bullshit created by communism, but there was still a lot of corruption before. It was really bad when I was there, during the 90s, shortly after the fall of Ceausescu. I remember watching a TV report about a guy thrown off the back of an ambulance onto the street because he had no money. Once my cable was cut because we failed to properly bribe the cable installer (we paid the company, though). All this being said, the people are really nice once you get used to their quirks. They're oddities are kind of charming in a way, like the Ferengi. Once you speak the language the taxi drivers (and just about everybody else) will usually stop trying to rip you off.
Simple by characterZer0 · 2013-03-20 07:06 · Score: 5, Insightful

The issue here is that the US government is not getting (enough) bribes. This probe will make sure that gets rectified.

--
Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
1. Re:Simple by deaton · 2013-03-20 07:21 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly. That would be the only reason U.S. federal authorities even care about this, it's not like they have any jurisdiction in those countries.
Bribery in China and Italy? by hsmith · 2013-03-20 07:07 · Score: 1

Shut the front door! I'd never believe it.

I thought everyone pretty much knew that bribery is just a cost of doing business in the People's Republic? (Well, of course, in the States too)
Incredible! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 07:11 · Score: 1

Microsoft throws bribes all around to win software contracts?
In other news, the new Pope is Catholic.
Here in the US of A we call that by chiefmojorising · 2013-03-20 07:15 · Score: 1

lobbying.
time to bribe the US Federal authorities by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 07:16 · Score: 0

watch how quickly this story gets buried... heh
I can back that accusation up by walterbyrd · 2013-03-20 07:17 · Score: 4, Informative

August 31, 2007
Sweden's OOXML vote declared invalidgust 31, 2007
The Swedish Standards Institute has declared its recent vote in favor of Microsoft's Office Open XML format invalid. It means that Sweden will probably abstain from an important upcoming international vote on whether to make the format a standard.
The reason given by SIS was not the controversial circumstances surrounding the vote, in which
Microsoft was found to have offered companies "incentives" if they voted in favor of OOXML. Instead, SIS cited a technicality, saying proper procedures had not been followed.
http://www.infoworld.com/t/platforms/swedens-ooxml-vote-declared-invalid-013
1. Re:I can back that accusation up by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 08:48 · Score: 0
  
  The specification itself has to be invalid. How can 5000+ pages not have errors? Just look at the 43MB PDF blob (link on the page, not a direct download).
2. Re:I can back that accusation up by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 09:21 · Score: 0
  
  Microsoft was found to have offered companies "incentives" if they voted in favor of OOXML.
  So how are they not naming and shaming the companies that have taken these "incentives"? Offering a bribe is one thing but taking a bribe or asking for a bribe is far worse! These are the people that compound the problem, if there weren't corrupt people taking/asking for bribes then it would be pointless to offer them.
  The people in charge of making these decisions for standards bodies have got to be made to stop taking and/or asking for bribes, that's the only way to stop this! Even if you get Microsoft to stop paying bribes some other company will step in knowing that these officials are morally corrupt and easily bought off.
MS caught red-handed bribing before by walterbyrd · 2013-03-20 07:19 · Score: 2

August 31, 2007
Sweden's OOXML vote declared invalid
The Swedish Standards Institute has declared its recent vote in favor of Microsoft's Office Open XML format invalid. It means that Sweden will probably abstain from an important upcoming international vote on whether to make the format a standard.
The reason given by SIS was not the controversial circumstances surrounding the vote, in which
Microsoft was found to have offered companies "incentives" if they voted in favor of OOXML. Instead, SIS cited a technicality, saying proper procedures had not been followed.
http://www.infoworld.com/t/platforms/swedens-ooxml-vote-declared-invalid-013
How things work in Italy by YA_Python_dev · 2013-03-20 07:21 · Score: 5, Informative

In Italy, like the rest of the EU, public money must usually be spent through transparent public contracts awarded to the lowest bidder that satisfies all requirements.
To make sure that Linux or LibreOffice don't cause problems the trick is very simple: they put e.g. "Windows 7" or "Microsoft Office 2010" in the requirements and pretend to have open competitive bids by comparing offers from different resellers for Microsoft software.
Another common trick is to let the situation degenerate until it becomes an emergency. At that point the law allows contracts to be awarded directly to a company arbitrarly chosen by a politician. This explains "emergencies" that last decades like the garbages crisis in Naples.

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There's a hidden treasure in Python 3.x: __prepare__()
1. Re:How things work in Italy by anarxia · 2013-03-20 09:55 · Score: 1
  
  That's baby corruption. The real pros make their competitors do the work through cut-throat sub-contracting and they get a commission. Either that or It's possible to be the cheapest yet you complete the project by sub-contracting all of it to the same people you were competing against in the first place.
Story is obviously untrue! by notknown86 · 2013-03-20 07:26 · Score: 1

Here's how it ACTUALLY went down:

Ballmer walks into room, wielding chair.

"You know, there's a lot of not-nice things that can happen when you standardize around a non-Microsoft office format..."
1. Re:Story is obviously untrue! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 07:56 · Score: 0
  
  Here's how it ACTUALLY went down: Ballmer walks into room, wielding chair. "You know, there's a lot of not-nice things that can happen when you standardize around a non-Microsoft office format..."
  If you spell Microsoft with a $ symbol next time you will have ticked all the cliche boxes.
If that is so by Mister+Liberty · 2013-03-20 07:37 · Score: 1

then we can only happily conclude Microsoft has fallen out of grace.
This means the beginning of the end.
Bye bye Billy.
Countries list by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 07:38 · Score: 0

You can include the Bulgaria in this list too ...
stunned by Dresden+Sparrow · 2013-03-20 07:53 · Score: 1

I would be stunned if this did not happen. What about the current Microsoft management and behavior would indicate that they would not pay bribes for business? In fact, is that not pretty much their entire business model at this point?
Bribery is how big business works now. by TsuruchiBrian · 2013-03-20 07:57 · Score: 1

If you get big enough, governments all over the world will expect kickbacks as the cost of doing business in their country. This happens in every country including the United States. The difference between the US and China is that our government spends a lot of time and effort dressing up bribes in the form of legislation and enforcement, while China doesn't see the point on providing anything but the most shallow cover for such activities.
If you are not prepared to play ball with lining the pockets of the local government officials, be prepared to have all kinds of regulations and fines passed against you while your competitors are given subsidies and tax exemptions.
Re:No shit? Really? I'm shocked ... by Penguinisto · 2013-03-20 08:02 · Score: 1

Once in awhile it's nice to get an official record of Microsoft breaking the law and pulling stupid stunts.
That way the MS fanboys and shills can't come along in a later conversation where the subject may come up, and then screech "prove it!" whenever some poor soul mentions that Microsoft is one highly corrupt pack of mofos.

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Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
So anal by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 08:07 · Score: 0

Hope it was an anal probe done by aliens!
So they were lying, by Ol+Olsoc · 2013-03-20 08:19 · Score: 1

When those countries said "You couldn't pay me to use that Microsoft crap."

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The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
So Cuba's government does what it does. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 08:19 · Score: 0

However, you will ban companies from operating in the USA if they do business with Cuba.
So, deal with Cuba (against the law in the USA): BANNED!
Bribe the Chinese government (against the law in the USA): Well, what the hell, let them do it everyone does, and everyone has to!
At least here, to their props, the USA government is at least trying to be consistent.
It just looks like the idiots don't want it to be consistent.
It applies to the Linux code. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 08:25 · Score: 0

And the parent poster was responding to someone CLAIMING that the linux api would infect your code with GPL.
So you should be calling out the MS troll (he's got loads of form on trolling pro-MS/Anti-GPL bullshit every chance he gets and only gets more and more insane as time goes by) not the parent poster.
Re:No shit? Really? I'm shocked ... by marcello_dl · 2013-03-20 08:38 · Score: 1

It's not news but it explains why a discrete amount of people subjected themselves to windows stuff instead of doing the rational thing: go mac before 2005 and go linux afterwards.

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---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
Because in the US. bribes go by other names by erroneus · 2013-03-20 09:02 · Score: 1

We know how to get things done in the US. It takes a lot of money. Money pays lobbyists and lobbyists channel money to political entities. Money comes in more forms than I can count. A few come in the form of "revolving door" jobs where they get paid a lot for doing nothing.
We don't allow direct bribes in the US. The bribes bust me masked, cloaked, laundered and/or transformed before they make their way to government.
Tunisia - Worse than bribing by jean-guy69 · 2013-03-20 09:58 · Score: 1

You couldn't be more dictactorship friendly than when giving the possibility of https interception, as the same time betraying your own customers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Tunisia_Scandal#Citizen_Surveillance_and_Hacking
Is this really illegal? by RocketRabbit · 2013-03-20 11:43 · Score: 1

Paying bribes to foreign despots is a time-honored tradition, one that is carried out by the Department of State in the form of foreign aid on a quarterly basis. I'm surprised that this is even an issue.
It is called FCPA by dave562 · 2013-03-20 12:59 · Score: 1

Let me help you guys.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act
The SEC and DOJ have stated that they are going to be more actively pursuing this. That public statement, combined with whistle blower rewards makes it a ripe environment for these kind of investigations. Some prosecutions will come out of them. Most of them will end with settlements. Practically every Fortune 50 corporation will face some form of FCPA action over the next five years.
Just to give the Apple haters something to work with, look... Apple got dinged too.
http://www.fcpablog.com/blog/tag/apple#
Here's an article about the SEC's increased interest in FCPA litigation.
http://www.trust.org/trustlaw/news/fcpa-and-extraterritorial-regulation-becoming-bigger-issues-for-financial-institutions-conference-hears
News for nerds? There's an app for that. There is good money in offering SaaS based FCPA compliance programs to major international corporations. Sure they could build it in house, but who is going to trust a corporation to keep themselves out of trouble? And besides, why would they take the risk that they miss something? It is much easier for them to offload the risk and cost of running the program to a third party.
meh by WindBourne · 2013-03-20 13:21 · Score: 1

Its MS. What do you expect. This is the least of their criminal behaviors.

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I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
No it isn't. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 13:26 · Score: 0

EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is strictly a kernel internal symbol.
It isn't a user API.
1. Re:No it isn't. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 15:42 · Score: 0
  
  EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is strictly a kernel internal symbol.
  That statement doesn't make any sense, EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL isn't a symbol at all. It is applied to internal symbols with the purpose of...wait for it...EXPORTing an internal SYMBOL...duh.
They are a local problem. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 13:40 · Score: 0

Giving the bribes is illegal for US firms to do.
That is who should be put in jail, and they should be glad it is a US jail and not a Chinese jail.
So they just started looking? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 17:40 · Score: 0

So they just started looking to see if microsoft has had unethical business practices? I read the article and thought "Where were they 25 years ago?"
Huh? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-21 04:31 · Score: 0

I thought all companies did this in China, not just M$.
Re:No shit? Really? I'm shocked ... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-21 09:16 · Score: 0

Once in awhile it's nice to get an official record of Microsoft breaking the law and pulling stupid stunts.
Wow, even the term 'official record' gets re-defined when you're bashing Microsoft! The fact that authorities are investigating the link between Microsoft and companies that allegedly paid bribes to overseas officials is somehow an 'official record' of Microsoft breaking the law?! I suppose your complete fucking stupidity should be expected given you've used idiotic terms like 'shills' as well.