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GoPro Issues DMCA Takedown Over Negative Review
skade88 writes "Ars is reporting that GoPro, the company that makes cameras used in extreme sports such as sky diving and swimming with dolphins has issued a DMCA take down notice on a review at DigitalRev that they do not like. See DMCA notice here. From the article: 'DigitalRev has a blog post up about the takedown, suggesting that most DMCA takedowns are "abusive" in nature. "We hope GoPro is not suggesting, with this DMCA notice, that camera reviews should be done only when they are authorized by the manufacturers," writes DigitalRev. "GoPro (or should we call you Go*ro instead?), we'd be interested to hear what you have to say" about the infringement notice.'"
Issue BS DMCA notice, get negative PR and lose millions. Maybe the system works after all... though in my vision it has a reliance on the media.
Isn't there some sort of purjury thing for filing false DMCA claims?
Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...
As far as I know, you can't use the DMCA for trademark infringement. They should have hired a lawyer.
I'll be definitely looking into the Sony AS15 now. I've never heard about it until now.
Karma: Excellent. 15 moderator points expire sometime.
Surely their lawyers must be able to tell the difference between a trademark and a copyright?
I'll be definitely looking into the Sony AS15 now.
Sony has copyright bullying skeletons in its own proverbial closet. Search keywords: Lik Sang; George Hotz
According to their response on Reddit, it was a disagreement over how their products appear in DigitalRev's "ecommerce section." http://www.salon.com/2013/03/20/a_lesson_from_gopro_dont_mess_with_reddit/
I'll ignore any commentary (including _this_ one) that isn't from an actual Lawyer.
This beahviour is sadly is very typical of GoPro.
1. I bought a GoPro HD Hero a few years ago, to take video and stills on a car trip from Paris to Mongolia. We were shooting timelapse of the entire trip, to be compiled at the end.
However, when we were in the middle of Kazakhstan, one day, the camera stops working. I poke around, and see that the filenames havd gone up to DCIM_9999.jpg - and worked out that they had never engineered them to loop back to zero, so the unit had a buffer overflow, and wouldn't work.
We finally got phone access to call a friend, who saw similar threads on their forum. GP refused to acknowledge the bug - they said you had to take out the battery for at least 12 hours, and then it would work. Naturally, this didn't work. Their suggestion was: "If you believe" your unit is faulty, you can send it back to GP in the USA, but you will be liable for freight both ways, and customs import again upon reception."
I emailed them, expecting that because they put such a customer-oriented public face forward, that they'd be decent guys. They were absolutely not.
Finally, 6 months later, they released a firmwire upgrade that fixed the issue. The fix wasn't mentioned in the CHANGELOG.
2. Friend driving across the USA, his unit started recording everything in a deep magenta, for no reason, with no fix.
3. Fast forward to this year, doing an enduro motorbike race across africa. Two friends have the new GP3 cameras - which constantly bug. Out of 15 days of riding, they managed to get about 3 hours of video. The unit would power on - when switched to 'video' mode, the screen would freeze, the unit would suck down power, and empty the battery in 20 minutes. This happened on both units, on the latest firmware.
I have been constantly amazed that a company that tries to push an 'extreme' image hates their customers - and the very people that are trying to do 'extreme' stuff. You have the impression they're just guys making hardware for people doing amazing stuff, and they love what they do. This isn't at all the case, as this latest episode only goes to further illustrate.
GoPro easily produces one of the worst products I've ever had the misfortune of using. The HERO3 I received shipped with a barely working wireless feature, which a software update disabled, then a following update bricked the device. After over one month of going back and forth with technical support, they finally got around to issuing a replacement. The replacement had a bad lens. At last, I finally got one that works! But now more than two months had passed since my initial order. Alas, the video quality is poor, it can no longer be made to record 1080p wide video, and the battery gives me about 30 minutes of recording time. Their product design and engineering is laughably sloppy, and I'm eagerly awaiting the day we see some competition move in and offer decent alternatives.
Digital Millenium Copyright Act. Not DMTA.
Rawlston Shamik says:
22 hours ago
_GoPro Sends Reviewer A DMCA Takedown Notice, Internet Explodes — But Wait! It Was An “Unfortunate Miscommunication”_
Hey all- I’m out at X Games Tignes right now with the Director of PR for GoPro. I showed this to him as soon as I saw it (it had 3 comments). He dropped everything to address this issue, and it’s an unfortunate miscommunication. Below is the blurb he just wrote out for my favorite GoPro community.
Thanks for the heads up on this issue. The letter that was posted next to the review on DigitalRev was not sent in response to the review. Obviously, we welcome editorial reviews of our products. This letter was sent because DigitalRev is not an authorized reseller of GoPro products and they were using images and had incorrect branding and representation of our product in their online commerce store. As part of our program – we ask merchants who are selling our product to use authorized images. That is why DigitalRev was contacted. But – our letter did not clearly communicate this and that is something we will correct.
Like
George Aggelis says:
Yesterday
Very very very very bad on behalf of Go Pro. Wouldn't recommend them to anyone, especially after this pathetic of an excuse reply. Funny thing, I was thinking of buying one based on the impressions of former reviews in DigitalRev.
Like
Seoirse Brennan says:
Yesterday
Official GoPro response
""The letter that was posted next to the review on DigitalRev was not sent in response to the review. Obviously, we welcome editorial reviews of our products. This letter was sent because DigitalRev is not an authorized reseller of GoPro products and they were using images and had incorrect branding and representation of our product in their online commerce store. As part of our program – we ask merchants who are selling our product to use authorized images. That is why DigitalRev was contacted. But – our letter did not clearly communicate this and that is something we will correct.""
Like - 1 like
http://www.digitalrev.com/article/gopro-doesn-t-like-their/ODUyNjU2ODc_A
I had no idea swimming with dolphins was an extreme sport!
Not professional, I'll make sure to let anyone I know who is considering a NoPro that it is a NoGo.
Imagine reviews of anything where you are not allowed to name the product for fear of alleged copyright infringement. That would be hilarious. Cue "Streisand Effect" for GoPro (oops, I just infringed)
Gopro needs stop doing "damage control" and issue an immediate apology before they dig themselves in to a hole.
Obviously they spend a lot of time building their brand image and some pencil dick middle manager over there thinks it's more important to defend the perception of their products than act legitimately to criticism.
This really is too bad, because the devices themselves are impressive little gadgets and are extremely well engineered. They pack a lot of impressive hardware in to a tiny rugged package and they perform quite well considering how inexpensive they are. (As compared to real "pro" video gear)
There are a lot of youtube teardown videos of the little devices, like this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1nsYd3lG60
It's really neat to see how they packed all that in to a tiny cube.
Anyway, maybe they're feeling the pressure from competitors now that they've established the market. After all, they are just using a reference implementation cpu/chipset/sensor/lens from another maker. It would not be hard to make a similar(Although not quite as good) device that's cheaper.
It's clunky, bulky, and doesn't even take very good video. The dynamic range sucks, and panning video tears badly when shooting video at the highest resolution.
Don't like it, GoPro, come sue me. Your product sucks, and is not worth the plastic it's made of. Fuck you.
Amazing. The review article compares their product with a Sony, which on principle I would never buy, but now these folks have cast themselves in the same vein. OK, maybe that haven't popped a rootkit on your computer, but seems like the same kind of crappy we-know-best attitude.
So, Go*ro does really stupid thing, generates lots of negative exposure with people who might be likely to buy their stuff, but who will now maybe look for something coming down the road that isn't a Sony or a Go*ro
Fine business minds.
http://www.edd.ca.gov/jobs_and_training/experience_unlimited_local_information.htm
Hey Karl,
I need to you to file a DMCA take down for some stuff on DigitalRev. Be a sport and get right on that.
Thanks
Karl: Let's see, google site:DigitalRev "GoPro"
Bingo
Oops
Solving Unix problems since 1989...
Oh bother. So now I'll be boycotting GoPro, and I already had Sony boycotted so their AS15 is out of the picture. What's the next best option?
Technical companies all seem to be directed by lawyers and doing moronic things these days, it's really sucking.
They took the review down anyway. Anyone have a copy of it? I was looking into buying one of these cameras and put it off for a few months. Glad I did.
According to this troll's LinkedIn profile, he's a "Creator/Producer" at Nerdlocker.com. A site that reviews (and has images) of video games, movies, and comics. So - what gives Patrick?
"Newspapers: A tiny little part of the internet, printed out yesterday, and delivered to your house"
What does the * stand for in Go*ro?
GoBro?
I think the main reason there wasn't ever penalties imposed for false DMCA takedowns is because they didn't want to harshly penalize what actually could have simply turned out to have been an honest mistake (not that I believe for a second that an honest mistake is what actually happened here... or for that matter, most of the other ridiculous abuses of the DMCA, although bringing up the notion here does bring to the forefront of my mind that I don't really know how they would ever be able to tell, objectively, whether the act was intentional or not to adjudicate an appropriate penalty).
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
I read the take down notice and they are correct. Everything the reviewer said about the products in
question is/has been 100% verified and accurately portrays the products in question/mentioned in the review.
The problem was that the reviewer failed to get permission before mentioning the products by name; it's a simple
consumer mis-step -- but the law is the law. Once the consumer get the required authorization, notarised by the
Pope himself, approved by D. Cheney and Bush, and signed off by Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the
site can remove the DMCA take down notice and potential customers can once again, gleam from his/her wisdom.
He's obviously new at the game as I've been doing it for years and gotta tell you getting Bush to hold the crayon steady
is no simple matter, but I digress. The trick is to tell him it's an artist's brush...
Anyway, best of luck to the chap!
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3th34m/
"With patience a ruler may be persuaded, and a soft tongue will break a bone."
I think "GoPro" should change their name to "GoPoo"!!!
My karma is bad. Don't get too close!!!
It turns out that the original review was actually written by Barbara Streisand. What a coincidence!
The whole point of the DMCA takedown notice process is that the ISP, in order to remain within the safe harbor vis-a-vis the party issuing the notice, must fold to a valid notice.
Of course, they also must fold the other direction in response to a valid counternotice from the allegedly infringing party, in order to remain within the safe harbor with regard to that party.
But the parties on each side of the notice/counternotice arrangement aren't generally in a symmetric power arrangement, so the importance of staying in the safe harbor with regard to each party isn't the same.
Here's the sad truth about review sites... If they don't give good reviews, the companies stop giving them their stuff for reviews. Good reviews mean sales. Anything that might put a dent in sales gets swept under the carpet. This is also very rampant in the video game sector. When was the last time you saw a video game get a rating under 5? Or even 7? A 9.9 means you keep your job.
Then the ultimate result of digging into past misdeeds is that no one can buy any product from any company.
To me, such digging has two limits. Forgiveness of misdeeds is possible if a company repents and openly embraces pro-user policies. Otherwise, forgiveness comes through decay as members of management on whose watch the misdeeds occurred leave the company. Let me know when either applies to Sony.
I surf, and ride motorcycles, so my girl decided a gopro would make a cool xmas gift this year. We went to New Zealand in December so she gave it to me early...
Strike 1:
So before we left on our trip, she ordered a Hero3 silver from gopro's website, which advertised "ships by Nov 30th" when she placed the order. After hearing nothing for 4 business days, not even an order confirmation, but having her CC charged $300+tax, she checked the website again and it said the Hero 3 cameras were on 14 day backorder. She then attmpetd to call GoPro. Big mistake. It took 54 minutes to get a live person on the phone. They stated that they could not guarantee when the camera would ship, and could not cancel the order. She gave up, called her Credit card company and disputed the charge, then she went to Best Buy and bought the camera off the shelf there for the same price. The camera from the gopro website never showed up and she got a cryptic email two weeks later from a manager saying the order was cancelled.
Strike 2:
Fast forward two weeks. We used the camera in New Zealand while enjoying our trip, and I was learning to use the camera etc... It seemed ot work OK but had really bad battery life but not a huge deal as I ordered the extended battery pack along with several other accessories, totall around $120. Then we went on a road trip to Baja for New Years. While driving south the GoPro locked up. At that point it wouldn't record at all, evena fter removing the battery and memory card and reinsterting. When we got back I found out it had corrupted the memory card so badly that I couldn't get any videos from that trip off of it. I then followed gopro instructions to reset the camera, and the website said there was a known issue and directed me to update the firmware, but I already had the most recent. Long story slightly shorter, I spent several hours messing with the camera, was hung up on after waiting on hold for 45 min by gopro support, and bought another SD card ($20), before returning it to Best Buy and getting a replacemnet camera.
Strike 3:
Now I have my new camera #2 all updated with the same FW (12/15/2012) and new memory card (which I have two of now) and it seems to work. Yay! So I start recording my commute to work on my motorcycle. After a couple weeks, this camera starts doing the EXACT same thing as my last one. Locks up, corrupts memory cards, factory reset/FW flash/Card reformat doesn't help for more than a few videos. This took about 30-40 videos to start happening, just like the first camera. This time I email gopro support hoping fro better luck. I didn't hear back for 9 days, when I got an email telling me to do all the things I had already tried (and I ahd told them I tried in my first email) and suggesting that I had bought a substandard memory card, which is the same thing their website says (I bought two class 10 san diesk cards along with teh class 10 best buy gave me with the camera). So, I took this camera back to Best Buy as well and complained heavily to their staff about GoPro and the camera. They urged me to try one mroe camera so I did.
Strike 4 (yes there are more than 3):
GoPro Hero3 camera #3 seems to work, jsut like #1 and #2. I start recording videos on my motorcycle and in my truck and what do you know... After about 2 weeks and 25 videos, it locks up, same symptoms as the first two. I waste another 2 horus messing with camera #3, then give up and take it back to Best Buy. They refuse to give me a full refund and I end up with store credit instead. I really can't blame then since it took me 2 1/2 months to ask for my money back after replacing two of them already.
Strike 5 (poosibly another gopro strike):
I write a review of the camera on Amazon and state my experience. Within 2 weeks my review is removed, no word from Amazon about it. I also noticed that sevveral other negative reviews had been taken down (all with the same problems I had) and the camera's rating had actually increased from 2 stars to three. It seems t
The Hero 1 & 2 have legions of happy users.
The Hero 3 Black has some happy users and legions of unhappy ones.
I love my Hero 1 and have taken hundreds of hours of error free footage.
The only time it's borked was on a supposed 32Gb class 10 Samsung card that is probably not genuine.
Fran
:):):)
1st 1st Poster of the new Millennium!
FTFY
Upward mobility is a slippery slope - the higher you climb the more you show your ass.
*this guy*
The DMCA does not grant any rights to trademark holders at all. It only applies to copyrights. They can't use the DMCA to get the trademark infringing content removed. Their only option is a trademark infringement lawsuit. It's total BS and you are free to toss it in the circular file.
"GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 51230 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Setec Astronomy)"
I emailed them this just now: "Your use of an inappropriate and unfounded DMCA takedown notice has made my decision to purchase a new FPV camera for my R/C planes easier. It will not be a GoPro camera. Issuing a DMCA takedown notice for a bad review is childish and shows that you, as a company, have little faith in your own products if you are afraid that a negative review is going to hurt your business. I actually own a GoPro camera that I have used for a couple of years and was planning on upgrading it soon. I will NOT upgrade it to another GoPro camera as I simply cannot do business with a company with a severe lack of morals and respect for their customers." I also posted on their FB page.
They always have a booth at the NAB trade show in Vegas, which starts in a couple weeks. I'll be stopping by and loudly explaining how their actions have guaranteed that I'll never buy one of their shitty cameras, nor will any of the hundreds of friends, family, and business associates who often ask me for technical advice about things like cameras and gadgetry.
Being a huge dick casts a long shadow.
Nothing worthwhile ever happens before noon
First, it's from a place called softlawyer, I would laugh at them to begin with. Second, you are allowed to use names and small parts of copyrighted works and names under fair use for reviews. Third, this would mean all reviews, even good ones, need to be removed on this site, amazon, walmart and everywhere else. By morning go pro will be frantically responding saying this was an error, put the review back and we will even give this unhappy reviewer a free something or refund of their camera.
I had not yet read the DigitalReview on it, but I do respect them and had consulted their reviews on more than one photography product before making my mind up as to what to spend my dollar on. If the review was bad enough that GoPro would do something like this, the GoPro is no longer in consideration.
GO FUCK YOURSELVES!
New rule: If you don't know the difference between trademark and copyright, you're not allowed to send DMCA takedown notices on behalf of your company.
Can we encode this rule into a simple test like the Kingdom of Loathing literacy test? http://i.imgur.com/PeClG.jpg
Request is for Obama to issue a Kill by Drone order on the reviewer.
For GoPro it's:
clean,
easy,
efficient.
For the White House it's:
[Obama quote] Holy Shit A'Nother Fucker To Kill ! Made My Day !
Amazon.com's customer reviews for GoPro are full of vitriol, most saying very similar things about lockups, overheats, software that only functions part of the time, features that don't work, and customer service that makes AT&T's reputation look stellar. Most say the Hero 2 was darned good, but that the Hero 3 is crapware. GoPro should suck it up and fix their product - it sells itself, and they would recover and conquer the video world. But instead they made a hilariously classic blunder of suppressing bad reviews, and generated a growing firestorm. Like other companies in the past, they will pay a far higher, nearly permanent price in loss of trust. Once a company gets labeled as a dirty dealer, and suppressing information in the social media age will do it in hours, it takes years to shed the image, if ever. Fixing the product would have been cheaper and faster.
I wanted to buy one of those gopros DAMNIT! Now I won't. Fuckers!
After sinking nearly $800 on a GoPro 2 3D solution and having it get worse with firmware updates and awful support, I sold the lot and have only looked back and realized my decision was correct. The hardware is overpriced and overhyped junk sold by shysters.
I think you are reasonable.
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Thinking of making a youtube video of smashing my GoPro3. I don't like companies who abuse DMCA law... I guess I have received way too many fake ones over the years.
Website Just Down For Me? Find out
Clearly the company has never heard of the Streisand effect. Make an attempt at shooting the messenger, and you will get gobs of blowback. The article might be taken down (as per the Bullshit DMCA crapola), although in a knife fight, the DMCA is being used for abuse here, and public discourse (free speech) is being stifled here. People will die for free speech, and will Kill to get rid of the fucking DMCA in order to keep free speech. In the mean time, all the crap the company is trying to pull will earn them the disrespect of not just all their customers, but everyone else as well.
Should scare the shit out of anyone your gun is not only taken away the one you have is absolutely useless.
Contour might be good action camera, but at least the earlier models do not suit to motorsport activities with extreme vibrations, such as karting or CrossCarting. My and others (based on looking at their support forum) experience is that the camera gets stuck and needs battery removed to reset it. I went to ReplayXD instead, it has survived those events where Contour died. Do note, that when the contour was attached to a helmet, there was no problems as human body does provide enough suspension on the most violent vibration.
I've had the same experience with Contour cameras.
http://gopro.com/contact
I just told them that as a professional scuba instructor I would deter my clients from purchasing their products. Hopefully the Streisand Effect will kick in.
I was about to purchase 30 GoPro cameras for the charities I support. I'm glad this came thought now rather than two days from now. I've canceled my orders for their cameras. Going forward, I will refuse to purchase their equipment or anything with their IP in it.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
I may just get a SONY
We're all disappointed in GoPro for engaging in this bad behavior, but there's no need to go and commit Sonycide.
Sony just gave me a doorstop....My Sony HDD 250 DVR, one of the few free DVRs out in the US-ian market, no longer works. Why ? because the listing service stopped. There is now no clockset. Sony wont or refuses to issue a patch for clockset.
Sony does not care about the customer. I will never buy another Sony product every again.
I was just looking at the GoPro and the Contour yesterday. I now see failings in the GoPro I didn't know about . . . . . guess their attempted coverup just backfired on them.
As of %date% if we do not have a review for a given product either
1 its a little known manufacturer and or an obscure product (please notify us of any interesting products)
2 the product does not meet our new quality standards (we will not post any reviews lower than%scale%)
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
These firms advertise on CNBC and Bloomberg. They go after negative news and information on the web. This is the new customer service.
I'm glad I could discourage you, although the other respondent here (CaptainLard) also offers some good advice. (There is, at least, a trial period where you can use the camera and send it back if you're not happy. But I'd be cautious; their support is extremely slow.) Keep in mind, however, that I haven't told the whole story here. You can imagine a lot of hand-wringing went on during the two months and three cameras I received before I finally got a product that wasn't broken on delivery. And now that I've a nominally working camera in my hands, I find myself very disappointed with its performance. (I have no doubt GoPro didn't eat their own dog food when filming the "sample videos" shown in their advertisements.) Do some digging around GetSatisfaction forums and read the complaints. You'll find I'm not alone. And, as someone who reads Slashdot, you'll probably identify all the weaknesses and flaws in the product's engineering quickly. I think the only reason GoPro gained popularity is because they were the only game in town. Now that other companies are recognizing this is a hot space, I believe the alternatives will start eating their lunch pretty quickly.
Decide for yourself:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/94628012/21-03-2013%201-22-13%20PM.jpg
The PURPOSE of a trademark is to unambiguously identify the source of a product. A review referencing a trademark defacto makes proper use of the trademark. An IMPROPER use would be to use the term GoPro(tm)* to refer to some other product from a different manufacturer.
When a trademark is used, though, it's always necessary to acknoledge that it is a trademark and to mention the name of the trademark holder. I haven't seen the review, so I don't know if they did that. Nobody needs permission to use a trademark to identify a product they are discussing. It's one of the purposes of the trademark.
It may well be that GoPro (tm)* is, in fact, abusively trying to censor a negative review, but they do also have the right to insist in proper acknoledgement, which I note was not done in the blog post.
AFAIK, the DMCA doesn't address this. GoPro(tm) should file a civil suit if this is their complaint.
* GoPro (tm) is a registered trademark of Woodman Labs
Dear GoPr*,
After familiarizing myself with your recent DCMA take-down notice directed at Softlayer.com, I wanted to inform you that I will no longer be considering the purchase of your products into the future. The fact that your company would abuse this system in order to remove a review that you apparently do not agree with is appalling and unjustifiable. If every company were to stoop as low as you have, there would be no product reviews and consumers would be left with nothing but advertising and word-of-mouth to base their decisions upon. Let me be clear in stating that I will personally dissuade all my associates and friends from ever purchasing your products due to this instance, using the very method you are trying desperately to restrict consumers to: word-of-mouth. I am very happy to be reading that I am not the only person taking a stance against your ridiculous actions, and am pleased to inform you that this authoritarian stance you are taking will do much more harm than good. Perhaps a formal apology to Softlayer.com as well as your (ex)customers is in order to salvage what (little) respect within the community you can muster. I, for one, will now be considering the purchase of a SONY HDR-AS15 just to spite your recent actions.
I borrowed one for a motorcycle track day and the fucking thing vibrated out of its sliding mount, never to be found again. The 625 cc single cylinder engine does vibrate a lot, even with a counterbalance shaft.
I'm just in the market for a camera from this family and was tossing up between the Contour and the GoPro (with a slight leaning towards the GoPro).
The Sony was out due to their ongoing complicity with the RIAA et al (I won't buy anything even with Sony chips in it unless there is absolutely nothing else on the market that meets my needs).
Thankfully, my decision has now been made for me - thanks GoPro!
Ethical purchasing is the only way we'll fix these thing. The age old problem with capitalism - profit has nothing to do with morality.