Slashdot Mirror


Cuban Video Game Recreates Revolutionary History

Hugh Pickens writes writes "The Guardian reports that Cuban programmers have unveiled a new 3D video game that puts a revolutionary twist on gaming, letting players recreate decisive clashes from the 1959 uprising in which many of their grandparents fought. 'The player identifies with the history of Cuba,' says Haylin Corujo, head of video game studies for Cuba's Youth Computing Club and leader of the team of developers who created Gesta Final – roughly translated as 'Final Heroic Deed'. 'You can be a participant in the battles that were fought in the war from '56 to '59.' The game begins with the user joining the 82 rebels who in 1956 sailed to Cuba from Mexico aboard the Granma. Players then fight their way through swamps shoulder-to-shoulder with bearded guerrillas clad in the olive green of Fidel Castro and Ernesto 'Che' Guevara to topple 1950s Cuban dictator Fulgencio Batista. The game lets you pick from three player profiles, one in an olive hat similar to the one Fidel Castro was known for, another wearing a Guevara-style beret and the last with the kind of helmet worn by the ill-fated Camilo Cienfuegos in many revolution-era photographs. Rene Vargas, a 29-year-old gamer who tried his hand at 'Gesta Final' when it was presented at a technology fair in Havana last week, says the graphics were surprisingly sophisticated. 'Bearing in mind the level of technical support there is in Cuba, it looks pretty good,' says Vargas. There are about 783,000 computers in this country of some 11 million inhabitants, according to government statistics from 2011. Private ownership of computers is low, but many Cubans access them at work, school or cyber cafes. 'We developed (it) keeping in mind the purchasing power and reality of Cubans,' says Corujo. 'It doesn't require incredible technological features.'"

121 of 199 comments (clear)

  1. Celebrating Mass Murderers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yeah Castro and his boy Che Che are real fucking heros. Che ran Castro's death camps and got off murdering people. HEROS!!

    1. Re:Celebrating Mass Murderers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This may surprise you, but actual history is distinct from freerepublic hyperbole.

      Well, technically they were called labor camps.

      But hyperbole? So we have a guy who fought for "freedom" and ended up being in power all his life. And passed that power to family members. I cannot say what it was like under Batista, but good grief! Castro couldn't have created a democratic system? He could have at the very least done a George Washington and been the first President. And then peacefully left office.

      It makes me really appreciate the Founders of the US. There were so many opportunities to turn this country into another Western Hemisphere dictatorship shithole and they didn't.

      Of course a democracy doesn't guarantee anything -see Mexico.

    2. Re:Celebrating Mass Murderers by thewolfkin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Of course a democracy doesn't guarantee anything -see Merica.

      FTFY

      crikes look at how many "democracies" America has established against the will of the people that have turned ugly that's a far worse track record than Cuba. I mean Vietnam for crying out loud. Ho Chi Minh looked to the US for help breaking free of it's colonial status (like US/England) and then when they wanted to establish a govt of their own choosing .. war.

      --
      Just another second banana
    3. Re:Celebrating Mass Murderers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Nope, with open US hostility towards the Cuban revolution he didn't have a choice on the matter: it was fall to the soviet sphere of influence or cease to exist, as simple as that. And technically Cuba has a democratic system where every single official is elected by the general population in free elections. The problem is that after the local level, the representatives are the one postulating the candidates to the next level and the people can only confirm or reject the candidates, what in practice means that all the candidates get elected.

      Also Fidel didn't "passed power" to family members, Raul was vice-president when Fidel got ill and temporarily assumed the presidency of the country, then got elected twice with more than 90% of the votes. And face it, he was the right man for the position. I seriously doubt any of the other candidates would have the guts an political prowess to reform the worst of the Fidel era rules and he promised more radical changes in his second and last term. As for the opposition, better not even start on it. Is pathetically small and powerless and is mostly made of entertainers whose target audience is not their fellow Cuban citizens but the outside world (aka Yoani Sanchez) or discredited old farts for whom dissidence is a lucrative job, but either way they lack any cohesion or realistic plan to take Cuba anywhere. For them is always

      1. Democracy
      2. ???
      3. Profit!

    4. Re:Celebrating Mass Murderers by Lisandro · · Score: 1

      "Candidates"? Lovely. Too bad all candidates were from the official party. Who were the opposition back in 2008 again?

    5. Re:Celebrating Mass Murderers by Lisandro · · Score: 1

      And you're deflecting my question. Again: how many non-party candidates did the 2008 election had?

    6. Re:Celebrating Mass Murderers by TarPitt · · Score: 2

      You should take advantage of our amazing free enterprise system and create a counter-game called "Free Market: Chile"

      I'm sure the thrilling scenes of political opponents being thrown from helicopters into the Pacific Ocean will take your breath away.

      All in the interests of defending freedom of course

      Show those Cubans what real freedom is all about

      --
      If your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd murder you in your sleep
    7. Re:Celebrating Mass Murderers by fche · · Score: 1

      The number of political parties in Cuba is similar to the number of political parties in any other communist dictatorship ... one.

    8. Re:Celebrating Mass Murderers by Lisandro · · Score: 1

      No idea - i'm not an US citizen. Though i'm interested on how the lack of democratic choices anywhere else justify the mockery that are "elections" in Cuba.

    9. Re:Celebrating Mass Murderers by Lisandro · · Score: 1

      It is, actually. Much worse.

    10. Re:Celebrating Mass Murderers by timq · · Score: 1

      It makes me really appreciate the Founders of the US. There were so many opportunities to turn this country into another Western Hemisphere dictatorship shithole and they didn't.

      The irony being that the USA turned a lot of other countries into Western Hemisphere dictatorship shitholes. For example, Cuba, before Castro and his cronies 'liberated' it.

    11. Re:Celebrating Mass Murderers by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      We have a guy who took over a country that was tucked up worse than most of Caribbean, and actually made it livable for most of the population - more so than most of his (capitalistic and nominally democratic) neighbors. That doesn't make him a saint, but it does make him better than most other politicians who come to power in similar circumstances.

  2. Re:In other news... by swampfriend · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You're comparing the Cuban Revolution to the rise of Nazi Germany? Congratulations on almost completing your American primary public education little guy.

  3. Re:In other news... by some+old+guy · · Score: 1, Insightful

    When you have a combat boot crushing your throat, it doesn't matter if its a Left boot or a Right boot.

    --
    Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.
  4. Re:In other news... by swampfriend · · Score: 5, Informative

    Yes, that is exactly the kind of meaningless "political" "opinion" I'm talking about. What do you know about people crushing other people's throats with combat boots in the Cuban revolution? A revolution in which 58 men inspired a country of 6.5 million to throw out a dictatorial, postcolonial government? You know nothing.

  5. I... I kind of almost want to play this by sandytaru · · Score: 2

    Seems no different in premise than the Call of Duty games or any of the other war games that USians love to play. Too bad it appears to be a single player game and not an MMO - that would be rather awesome.

    --
    Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
  6. Game engine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Shame. The summary doesn't even mention what game engine was used. And you call this news for nerds?

    1. Re:Game engine? by thewolfkin · · Score: 1

      Shame. The summary doesn't even mention what game engine was used. And you call this news for nerds?

      um.. can I get a +5 over here?

      --
      Just another second banana
    2. Re:Game engine? by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

      it was the one they used for Unreal 2003. >:]

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    3. Re:Game engine? by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Well, when you see all those old cars they keep running, you have to figure they're probably using FORTRAN, COBOL, or maybe even LISP

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    4. Re:Game engine? by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

      oh, I figured on it being a ZX81 BASIC Frogger clone...

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    5. Re:Game engine? by davydagger · · Score: 1

      this.

      it does sound like an intresting video game premise, though. Lets face in, in American video games, far worst protagonists have been used. I would be intresting to see the graphics and the gameplay, and how the storyline is interpreted.(is it shear campy propaganda, or did they enhance it for media).

      The irony is that few of them have computers, and the handful of people who will get to play this will be regime loyalists.

    6. Re:Game engine? by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      oh, I figured on it being a ZX81 BASIC Frogger clone...

      Considering their reputation for running 1950's automobiles, I vote Autocoder. Or maybe FORTRAN.

    7. Re:Game engine? by mlc · · Score: 1
      According to Revista Tino :

      Para su producción se utiliza el Visual Studio 2005 y el lenguaje de programación Visual C++. Que aunque es de licencia propietario, para la construcción y para el manejo del motor de juego 3D, es el más efectivo. También se utiliza el lenguaje de script Simkin. El motor Génesis 3D y el kit de herramientas de Génesis 3D son utilizados para el diseño y comportamiento de la plataforma de juego, el MilkShape 3D 1.8.1 y el 3D Studios Max 9.0 se utilizan para el diseño y animaciones 3D, el Adobe Suite CSS 3 se emplea en el tratamiento gráfico 2D, el Sony Vegas 5.0, el Fruity Loops y el SoundForge son utilizados para el tratamiento de video y sonido.

      People without Spanish skills can probably just look at the capitalized words and get the idea.

  7. Screenshots by Paul+Slocum · · Score: 4, Informative

    This article has screenshots and more details about gameplay.

    1. Re:Screenshots by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

      Graphics aren't terrible, somewhere between SWAT4 and Ghost Recon.

      So where can I download it?

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  8. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Batista's regime can hardly claim the moral high ground, but the same can be said for Castro, Guevara and the revolutionaries. In fact, in any armed conflict, there are some rather bloody hands on both sides (figuratively speaking). It's important not to put anyone on a pedestal simply because of some view they espoused, without taking a long hard look at the actions they took to realize those views.

  9. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    As opposed to your "opinion" where Che and Castro were angels and didn't kill anybody opposed to a complete nationalization of the Cuban economy. Propaganda comes from all sides, including your leftist friends, and until you grow up enough to recognize that fact, you only know one side of history--precisely what you accuse the grandparent of. Let's just hope you do not follow Che's path and kill him because your political disagreement.

  10. Play to loose? by Required+Snark · · Score: 2
    Maybe there could be a following for this in the US. Right wingers could play to loose, and fulfill their fantasies about blotting Castro's Cuba out of history. Plus, if they can get it for free on the web, they could feel like they're ripping off Cuba.

    I wonder if it has DRM? Is it FOSS? What does that mean in a socialist state?

    Maybe the Cubans could give the game platform to Viet Nam, and they could come up with a plotline where you follow Ho Chi Min to his defeat of the imperialist US invaders. There's jungles and tropical climate in both situations, right.

    In China, they could have the Long March MMOG.

    On a somewhat more serious note, this is somewhat an exercise in jumping the shark. If you're at the point where you promote your history/ideology by turning it into a video game, it's ceased to be current experience, and has moved into the realm of cultural myths.

    In the US, the number of people who have combat experience is dwarfed by the the ranks of the FPS gamers. The real experience of war has been eclipsed by the glamorized painless video version. It's likely that the sanitized version has displaced reality in the minds of a lot of people. This can't be a good thing.

    --
    Why is Snark Required?
    1. Re:Play to loose? by dbIII · · Score: 2

      Either way the clock here shows April 1 and some Slashdot contributiors are in this timezone.

      BRING BACK THE PONIES!

    2. Re:Play to loose? by Lothar+0 · · Score: 1

      America's Army was released free to the public. I would imagine this game would be as well, coming from the Ministry of Communications (which strangely does not have a website).

      Cuba itself just hosted on IP conference. Here's the program, and here's a snippet of it:

      Tuesday, March 19, 2013
      9:05 - 10:30
      Challenges of Protecting Intellectual Property on Social Networks (Software Industry)
      Rafael Ortín, Marquez, Henriquez, Ortin & Valedon,
      Slobodan Petosevic, Petosevic, Belgium

      This says nothing about Cuban intellectual property law, but it indicates that they at least host conferences where foreigners talk about how software IP is a thing that needs protecting. If Cuban programming takes off as a commercial industry, will there be penalties for copyright infringement? We'll probably know when those sort of cases start coming up in Cuban courts (if they ever do). Until then, I have no idea.

      FWIW, Ho died in 1969, six years before the fall of Saigon, but that might not stop some game designer from having a player assume his likeness in a similar game anyway.

      --
      "Anonymous Coward" is for whistleblowers, not unpopular opinions.
    3. Re:Play to loose? by smallfries · · Score: 1

      Obligitory grammar nitpick: surely you mean play too loose?

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
    4. Re:Play to loose? by TBBle · · Score: 1

      Maybe the Cubans could give the game platform to Viet Nam, and they could come up with a plotline where you follow Ho Chi Min to his defeat of the imperialist US invaders. There's jungles and tropical climate in both situations, right.

      Viet Nam's version shipped a year and a half ago: http://kotaku.com/5864287/defeat-the-french-in-vietnams-7554-military-shooter/

      --
      Paul "TBBle" Hampson
      Paul.Hampson@Pobox.Com
  11. are the Tropico games banded there?? by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    are the Tropico games banded there??

    1. Re:are the Tropico games banded there?? by thewolfkin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      was Call of Duty banned there? I thought I recalled hearing about a mission where you assassinated Fidel Castro which I thought was rather ballsy considering Castro was alive at the time and not at war with the country. That'd be like the NAACP making a game where you assassinate former President Bush.

      --
      Just another second banana
    2. Re:are the Tropico games banded there?? by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      No have no idea what the NAACP is, do you?

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    3. Re:are the Tropico games banded there?? by reve_etrange · · Score: 1

      National Association for the Advancement of Colored Programmers?

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
    4. Re:are the Tropico games banded there?? by AdamHaun · · Score: 2

      was Call of Duty banned there? I thought I recalled hearing about a mission where you assassinated Fidel Castro...

      That was the first mission in Call of Duty: Black Ops. You play a special forces team sent in with the failed Bay of Pigs invasion in 1961. The goal of the mission is to kill Castro, but you only end up killing a body double. (It's based on a real historical event, so they couldn't actually have him get killed.)

      --
      Visit the
  12. Re:In other news... by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

    fail. I didn't go to an American school.

    --
    Operation Guillotine is in effect.
  13. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Look you may not know this, but the Batista government was the bad guy, and was a puppet government propped up by the US after the Spanish American war...you know the one US started so they could get take huge chunks of spanish territory. Before those 82 rebels started their revolution Cuba had the following problems:

      75% of rural dwellings were huts made from palm trees.
    More than 50% had no toilets of any kind.
    85% had no inside running water.
    91% had no electricity.
    There was only 1 doctor per 2,000 people in rural areas.
    More than one-third of the rural population had intestinal parasites.
    Only 4% of Cuban peasants ate meat regularly; only 1% ate fish, less than 2% eggs, 3% bread, 11% milk; none ate green vegetables.
    The average annual income among peasants was $91 (1956), less than 1/3 of the national income per person.
    45% of the rural population was illiterate; 44% had never attended a school.

    Now they have a better Literacy, infant mortality and healthcare than the US. I would call that a pretty heroic tale.

  14. Re:In other news... by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

    ...and yes, I am comparing a REVOLUTION to ANOTHER REVOLUTION.

    --
    Operation Guillotine is in effect.
  15. Re:In other news... by dbIII · · Score: 1

    What do you think about Greece now then? Spain? Or Japan if a couple more decades isn't too long ago?

    Just let it go.
    A bunch of people murdered a corrupt government, kicked out foreign gangsters (with political connections otherwise they wouldn't have been so much stink from the USA for so many years), and being a bunch of murderers running a revolution a lot of other people got killed too for a few years afterwards. That's what happens with revolutions when you are revolting against people there and in your face and not on the other side of an ocean kept away by the French.

  16. BS on Cuba by jodido · · Score: 1

    For all /. who think "know all about" Cuba: check this article out. From a highly-respected source (in its time), the Associated Press. Spoiler alert--there's not a single true thing in it. http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10200202785247365.1073741825.1084043443&type=1&l=7aa048e364

    1. Re:BS on Cuba by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

      about the only thing I know about Cuba was the little spat about the Soviets wanting to place land-based nukes there in the 1960s, which almost resulted in me not being born.

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    2. Re:BS on Cuba by jodido · · Score: 3, Informative

      Then you should also know why the missiles were there--which is that the US invaded Cuba in 1961, the invasion was crushed, but the US didn't give up and was planning to invade again in 1962 (Google "Operation Mongoose") this time with US troops instead of spoiled rich kids who thought the Cubans would welcome them back with open arms (they did "welcome" them back with arms but not the kind the country club types expected).

    3. Re:BS on Cuba by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      Then you should also know why the missiles were there--which is that the US invaded Cuba in 1961

      Well, from the point of view of the Cubans. From the Soviet side the reason was that the US had already installed missiles in Turkey.

      The confrontation ended on October 28, 1962, when Kennedy and United Nations Secretary-General U Thant reached an agreement with Khrushchev. Publicly, the Soviets would dismantle their offensive weapons in Cuba and return them to the Soviet Union, subject to United Nations verification, in exchange for a US public declaration and agreement never to invade Cuba. Secretly, the US also agreed that it would dismantle all US-built Jupiter IRBMs, armed with nuclear warheads, which were deployed in Turkey and Italy against the Soviet Union.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_missile_crisis

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    4. Re:BS on Cuba by kermidge · · Score: 1

      In part, yes viz. the 'clandestine' CIA-abetted effort. Has any evidence surfaced to support the idea that Soviet Union was aware of Mongoose, though? [I don't know; if they were, then that adds to their reasons, particularly for the tac nukes.] SU was also irked at US placing IRBMs in several NATO countries, particularly Turkey, so, gander and goose. From what I recall one of the benefits to SU from placing the missiles was to not only reassure Castro but also to be better able to keep him on a leash - they were never all that happy with the relationship apart from being a thorn to the US, because Cuba cost them a lot of money and aggravation for little return - modest port rights, a small amount of some commodities, and a minor vacation spot, IIRC.

      That's from memory; your post got me curious, so just read the Cuban missile crisis entry at Wikipedia. Their article is quite good. There were some things I either hadn't read before or had forgotten. (I had a selfish reason for interest on this because I lived in the D.C. area at the time, and some days it became difficult to concentrate on school.)

    5. Re:BS on Cuba by istartedi · · Score: 1

      It's a shame I can't read that since I block URLs for FaceBook's widget server. I forget exactly what domain, but it's not facebook.com. It's some other domain that serves widgets. The reason I do that is because the JavaScript in there was defective and would sometimes go into an infinite loop. I don't know if they ever fixed that, but my pages run more smoothly without these widgets loading. What's really crazy is that the user-facing aspect of it was simply a button. A button that needs to have active code even when you haven't pushed it? That's all kind of messed up.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    6. Re:BS on Cuba by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      I know without clicking the link that I'd be a moron to believe anything in it. You posted a fucking facebook link. You're a moron if you believe anything posted to a facebook link is true in the first place.

      Could like to a trusted source, but I know its tainted already so the trusted source is irrelevant.

      Its like posting 'proof' that black people are (insert racial remark here) and then as your proof, quoting the KKK newsletter. It just makes you look stupid.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    7. Re:BS on Cuba by jodido · · Score: 1

      Of course the Soviets knew about Mongoose. Everyone in Cuba did. The only people in the world who didn't were the US public, just like the Bay of Pigs.

    8. Re:BS on Cuba by kermidge · · Score: 1

      Oh, ok. I don't recall coming across that tidbit in print somewhere, before now, of course. I do understand that lots of stuff supposed to be secret may be widely known and that too much of it is classified because "it's supposed to be secret" even when it's not, and that keeping things from the American public is big-time CYA and to prevent embarrassment to some, so TPTB can keep on doing whatever they wish to. I just never knew Mongoose was so widely known and didn't want to make the automatic assumption.

  17. Re:In other news... by _Sharp'r_ · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Now they have a better Literacy, infant mortality and healthcare than the US.

    Uhh... Bullshit? It always amazes me that so many people are willing to credulousness accept "statistics" like that from total propaganda. You probably also believed that the Soviet Union was a massive economic powerhouse for it's people in the 80s, right?

    Hint: People don't take leaky boats and swim across oceans to get elsewhere because where they live is just too wonderful for them to handle. Try talking to someone who's actually lived in Cuba and then escaped.

    --
    The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
  18. Re:Killers by jodido · · Score: 3, Informative

    Name a single innocent person who was tortured, raped or killed by anyone associated with the Cuban revolution who wasn't punished severely for it. At least two Cuban soldiers in Angola were executed for raping an Angolan woman. Can your army say the same?

  19. Glorious Revolution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The glorious Cuban revolution continues to this day. The propaganda ads and constant near daily "celebration" of minor individuals and events is somewhat bizarre for foreigners to see. That the Cuban government has "rewritten" history to suit their vision and goals is no surprise. Neither is the fact that most Cubans, having grown up under it and exposed to this propaganda for the past 50 years, whole heartedly believe it and embrace it with a nationalistic passion not unlike; 'meruca. Fuck yea!

    But, while the video game and the propaganda may bend the reality beyond any truth, the rebels did wind up forcing Batista out and remain firmly in power to this day. A single scraggly bearded PoS remains in charge even after 50 years. And, they love him!

    1. Re:Glorious Revolution by BitZtream · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You realize when you say something stupid like 'Meruca' you instantly lose everyone in your listener group except the other idiots such as yourself with an axe to grind?

      You lose any credence you had instantly and make it clear that you're not out about the truth or facts, you're out to promote your agenda.

      If you actually wanted to spread truth, you wouldn't try to drag your own personal agenda into it. You end up letting everyone around you know that your 'facts' aren't trustable.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    2. Re:Glorious Revolution by StoneyMahoney · · Score: 1

      Oh, I dunno. There are Americans and there are Merucans. Every country has it's delusional zealots, denialists, self-imposed ignorants. America is not unique in that aspect, we have similar folk in England. (Or Ing-ger-lernd!!! as they like to pronounce it)

  20. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "...they did follow due process every single time"

    citation needed...

  21. Re:In other news... by einar2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So... you doubt the propaganda of other countries but you believe the one fed to you by your leaders.

    Hint: My working colleagues did not leave the US because it was so great to live there...

  22. Re:In other news... by khallow · · Score: 1

    Those refugee "escapees" were almost 10% of Cuba's population. That's an awful lot of criminals per capita.

  23. Re:In other news... by Hentes · · Score: 4, Informative

    Of course they are not as developed as the US, but that's true for most countries. Cuba has a relatively high HDI, according to the UN, not the Cuban government.

  24. Re:In other news... by Hentes · · Score: 1

    He is comparing propaganda to propaganda. Although truth to be told you can't play as Nazis in American shooters so it would be only fair.

  25. Che Guevara was a virulent racist. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm sure his fanboys will make excuses, but here are the words of Che Guevara:

    "The blacks, those magnificent examples of the African race who have maintained their racial purity thanks to their lack of an affinity with bathing, have seen their territory invaded by a new kind of slave: the Portuguese."

    "The black is indolent and a dreamer; spending his meager wage on frivolity or drink; the European has a tradition of work and saving, which has pursued him as far as this corner of America and drives him to advance himself, even independently of his own individual aspirations."

    1. Re:Che Guevara was a virulent racist. by orzetto · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Fanboi here. That's a passage from his younger diaries, when he had barely had contact with blacks and was certainly not politically defined as he would become later. He wrote that when he was about 24. Later, he wrote the following:

      Those who kill their own children and discriminate daily against them because of the color of their skin; those who let the murderers of blacks remain free, protecting them, and furthermore punishing the black population because they demand their legitimate rights as free men — how can those who do this consider themselves guardians of freedom?

      It might be noted he later actually fought and bled in Congo fighting against Mobutu along Congolese revolutionaries.

      That's not to say everything he did was right. He was a proponent of death penalty, something a man of his education (he was a doctor) should have abhorred already in the 60s. He heavily miscalculated the campaigns in Congo and Bolivia. But racist? No way.

      --
      Victims of 9/11: <3000. Traffic in the US: >30,000/y
  26. Re:In other news... by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

    True. The US has the largest prison population per capita and even there it's only 1% of the adult population.

    --
    Watch this Heartland Institute video
  27. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    As the son of exiles and someone who knows many families who lost loved ones to the lack of due process, please stop your ignorant rants and stop reading 'Internet Facts' written by the same people that did the atrocities which are all too well known to those that actually lived through it. You are insulting the memory of many people who actually wanted a truly free and democratic Cuba, and were not afraid to speak out against what they knew even back then was just an exchange from one bad dictatorship to another. The medicine is not better; nor is the education and overall quality of life, but you wouldn't know that unless you actually knew people from there or gone to visit Cuba yourself, and I'm not talking about the tourist areas.

    I hope this is an early April Fools joke, even if it is a bad one.

  28. Re:In other news... by dryeo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    People don't do the same thing to escape the wonderful capitalistic democracies of Mexico and various Central American states?

    --
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  29. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Hundreds of Batista-era agents, policemen and soldiers were put on public trial for human rights abuses, war crimes, murder and torture. Most of the people accused were convicted by revolutionary tribunals of political crimes, and were executed by firing squad; others persons received long sentences of imprisonment. A notable example of revolutionary justice was after the capture of Santiago, Raul Castro directed the execution of more than seventy Batista POWs.[24]

    For his part in taking Havana, Che Guevara was appointed supreme prosecutor in La Cabaña Fortress. This was part of a large-scale attempt by Fidel Castro to cleanse the security forces of Batista loyalists and potential opponents of the new revolutionary regime. Others were fortunate enough to be dismissed from the army and police without prosecution, and some high-ranking officials in the ancien régime were exiled as military attachés.[24]"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Revolution#Aftermath

  30. Re:In other news... by blind+biker · · Score: 3, Informative

    Cuba definitely does have better healthcare than the US, where 50 million people have none.

    For instance, Cuba has two and a half more doctors per capita than the US

    Oh, and here's another datapoint: the table shows literacy levels in Cuba being higher than the USA.

    --
    "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
  31. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Say what you will about the Cuban state, but they do have a lower infant mortality rate and a higher literacy rate than the US.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate

    So although it might not be the best place to live, there is no bullshit in the OP's post.

  32. Re:In other news... by del_diablo · · Score: 1

    So the nepotic upper middleclass and people who took the chance to run was equal to 10% of the population? How many of those people where even Cuban for that matter?

  33. Re:In other news... by blind+biker · · Score: 2

    Dude... 50 million without healthcare.

    You know which other first world country doesn't have universal heathcare?

    None.

    --
    "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
  34. Re:Killers by BitZtream · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Every single cuban citizen who has to escape in a raft suffering 90 miles of sunburn while traveling a few miles per hour hoping you make it across the Gulf stream quickly so it doesn't carry you far enough into the Atlantic that no one ever finds you. The fact that people live there make the choice to ride a raft with THEIR KIDS in what is essentially their own personal death march should be enough to answer your question.

    I use common sense and the actions of the people there to draw my conclusion. You're still trying to argue which political side is right.

    10% of the countries population (roughly) has been so distraught that they elected a trip thats got less than a 1% chance of survival over staying and dealing with it.

    We punish our soldiers when we find them committing crimes you speak of. Its well known fact (from those who escape the country) that the Cuban army on the other hand do commit those crimes ... and you yourself give an example of them doing so.

    America has its own set of issues, but its hard to believe America and Cuba are even on the same planet, putting them in the same class just makes it clear that you have no concept of what you're talking about.

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  35. Re:In other news... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1, Insightful

    "A revolution in which 58 men inspired a country of 6.5 million to throw out a dictatorial, postcolonial government?"

    ... and replaced it with another dictatorial, post-colonial government.

    Am I supposed to be impressed?

  36. Just what we need, more historical revisionism by Python · · Score: 3, Informative

    Oh boy, I sure hope this game lets you blind fold and shoot people that didnt go along with the glorious Cuban revolution!

    http://www.therealcuba.com/page5.htm

    --

    Python

    1. Re:Just what we need, more historical revisionism by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      I bet you're still waiting for a computer game where you get to sit in a helicopter and mow down unarmed Vietnamese rice farmers. Oh wait, would that be a double standard I hear?

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
    2. Re:Just what we need, more historical revisionism by khallow · · Score: 1

      Oh wait, would that be a double standard I hear?

      For who? Certainly not for the Castros who seem to have no qualms about shooting people in cold blood.

    3. Re:Just what we need, more historical revisionism by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      For anyone and everyone. There can't have been a single army in history that wasn't involved in looting, indiscriminate killing, torture or rape. And no-one seems to complain that Call of Duty doesn't have an Abu Ghraib level....

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
  37. Re:Impressed / Curious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You mean that "shit hole", that has better literacy, child survival rate and health care than the US?

    Yeah, look at your own shit hole first.

  38. Re:In other news... by reve_etrange · · Score: 1

    Regardless of your political views, you should be impressed by Cuba's health indicators at least.

    --
    .: Semper Absurda :.
  39. Re:In other news... by reve_etrange · · Score: 4, Informative

    Oh yeah, all that horrible Cuban propaganda about their great health indicators...

    --
    .: Semper Absurda :.
  40. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Ironic then that the US uses it's Cuban military base to imprison, torture and murder people without due process (and far far away from media eyes) as well ain't it!

  41. Re:In other news... by sourcerror · · Score: 1

    ER won't treat cancer patients or any chronic disease, also it's highly wasteful for the uninsured to rely on ER for general healthcare, prevention is much cheaper.

  42. Re:In other news... by dkleinsc · · Score: 3, Informative

    It always amazes me that so many people are willing to credulousness accept "statistics" like that from total propaganda.

    All available evidence suggests that your average Cuban is literate, doesn't lose children in infancy, and has access to medical care that international organizations routinely rate as highly effective and remarkably low-cost.

    For what it's worth, my mother took several trips to the more rural areas of Cuba in the early 1990's, during the worst of the post-Soviet depression they went through, and the people she met were universally literate, fairly healthy, and had enough to eat. They felt safe enough from the government that they could crack subtle jokes at Fidel Castro's expense in private homes (and yes, they had decently confortable private homes). The core of their health care system was the village doctor who lived just down the block and not only cared for everyone who lived there but also promoted public health and sanitation. The Americans on the trip were not followed around by government minders or anything like that. As part of the same program, several Cubans came to the US, and several other Americans made different trips to Cuba over a decade.

    The general impression I get: Florida is a paradise compared to Cuba. Cuba is a paradise compared to Haiti, Hondurus, and many other Latin American countries. GDP per capita tells a pretty clear story: US - $48,000 Cuba - $9,900 Haiti - $1,200 Hondurus - $4,400 (all numbers from CIA estimates)

    The other part of the story: The US government and the Cuban exiles in Miami have been demonizing Castro's government for over 50 years, so it's hardly surprising that most Americans have a very warped idea of what Cuba is actually like.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  43. Bay of Pigs? by Aero77 · · Score: 1

    It should include the Bay of Pigs battle. You start off a counter-revolutionary stooge of the US, foolishly believing the US will support your invasion of Cuba. You land your boat, but are surprised by the brave soldiers of the revolution. You use the radio to call in air support. The cutscene plays showing the corrupt playboy american president ignoring your call in favor of spending time with his hollywood movie star girlfriend. You futilely fight on, but the end comes for you. If you survive long enough, you experience a jail cell slide for a few seconds, but regards of your outcome, then a suitably patriotic cutscene plays showing the deliriously happy people of cuba celebrating there new freedom.

    1. Re:Bay of Pigs? by Python · · Score: 1

      You forgot the quotes around freedom.

      --

      Python

  44. Re:In other news... by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

    Dude... 50 million without healthcare.

    50 million without health insurance, you mean?

    Hard as it is to believe, you can get healthcare without health insurance....

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  45. Re:In other news... by KiloByte · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's quite shocking to see how much worse the opinion Nazis get is worse than those of Soviets. The latter put a great deal of effort into propaganda, and had a chance to continue it for half a century after the former got defeated.

    Nazis were evil, sure, but if you look around, most wars in the history of mankind revolved around "our tribe is good, their is bad, they don't deserve to exist, their belongings/land are rightful loot that should be ours". Try reading the Bible, you have an outright order from the tribe's god to genocide every living being, including even livestock, from a list of neighbours a prophet didn't like. Even in 21th century we have Tutsi vs Hutu, and so on. I'd say there is only one reason to consider Nazis more evil than the rest: Germany was one of the most civilised countries at the time, so such barbarous actions are more shocking than when done by Tutsi or some such. Doing something "for the good of your people" has at least a good intent, even if it's severely misguided. Hitler wanted to give Germans power, to let them expand to lands occupied by "lesser races", protect them from "evil plotting Jews", purge the race from the weak, get rid of "traitors" to the nation, etc.

    On the other hand, Soviets had no good intentions whatsoever. Even before the revolution, "good of the working class" was an empty slogan. The actual source of their name "soviets", ie, workman councils, were immediately disbanded, and "dictatorship of the proletariat" was from the start a dictatorship of the Party. Unlike "Animal Farm", it was not a popular movement gone bad, it was planned to be bad.

    In Nazi Germany, if you were an ethnic German, physically and mentally hale, and not a dissident, you were ok as long as you obeyed orders. On the other hand, in the Soviet Union, the very working class that was supposed to be the main benefactors of the revolution were also those hit the hardest. You don't go on mass murders of people you intent to fight for.

    So even though there are no doubts Nazis were evil, Soviets and their offshots (Mao, Pol Pot, Kim) were a whole new class of evil that makes Hitler a mere naughty kindergarten kid in comparison.

    --
    The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
  46. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Nope. The cubans revolted. The nazi government was elected. Sure, the election was not entirely democratic - they were beating up political opponents. They started a fire in order to have 'emergency powers'. But it was no revolution.

  47. Re:In other news... by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Castro's revolution had its flaws but he never openly tortured or killed his fellow citizens

    No, he left that to Che Guevera.

    --
    The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  48. Re:Killers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm a physician in a New York City Emergency Room. There are plenty of Cubans here, and either Jodido is correct about the wonderful conditions in Cuba or these people are completely making up everything they tell me. Personally, I'll go with the stories of poor immigrants who have no reason to lie to a white Jewish doctor who has nothing to do with Cuba over the rantings of some random internet troll.

  49. Re:In other news... by rossz · · Score: 3

    Castro's revolution had its flaws but he never openly tortured or killed his fellow citizens

    That is flat out, 100% WRONG. One of my high school friends was from Cuba. Both his father and his uncle were tortured by the Castro regime because they didn't fight on the "right" side. They were lucky they weren't simply shot, but my friend's dad walked with a severe limp for the rest of his life. And Che was a murdering bastard who had a habit of shooting people he only suspected of not being loyal enough.

    Know what those Che tshirts are good for? It makes it easy to spot complete morons.

    --
    -- Will program for bandwidth
  50. Re:In other news... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    Reminder: "Troll" is not a substitute for "I disagree".

    To the best of my knowledge, my comment was simply factual.

  51. Re:In other news... by fche · · Score: 1

    It's not so far-fetched. Dictatorship of the proletariat on one hand, dictatorship by the National Socialist party on the other hand.

  52. Re:In other news... by fche · · Score: 1

    Potemkin indicators.

  53. Re:In other news... by fche · · Score: 1

    "torture", "murder" ? Citation needed.

  54. Re:In other news... by atriusofbricia · · Score: 1

    Regardless of your political views, you should be impressed by Cuba's health indicators at least.

    And if it is such a paradise why are people willing to jump on practically anything that floats to get the Florida?

    --
    I was raised on the command line, bitch

    "Nemo me impune lacesset"

  55. Re:In other news... by the+gnat · · Score: 1

    Now they have a better Literacy, infant mortality and healthcare than the US. I would call that a pretty heroic tale.

    If Cuba is such a paradise, why did the government refuse to issue exit visas to its citizens for decades? Why did it even require exit visas in the first place, for that matter? Most governments don't use border controls to keep people in the country.

  56. Re:In other news... by the+gnat · · Score: 3, Interesting

    they do have a lower infant mortality rate and a higher literacy rate than the US.

    I see this statistic cited nearly every time the issue of Cuba comes up, but it's extremely deceptive. There are multiple reasons why the infant mortality rate for the US is higher, including a greater number of premature births, but one reason is that the statistics are calculated differently. In the US, where medical technology is very sophisticated (and very expensive, which is one reason why our health care system is so inefficient), many infants (usually premature) that would be considered stillborn in other countries can be resuscitated and kept on life support. Typically the survival rate isn't great anyway, unfortunately - but they are still recorded as "live births". So our mortality rate is effectively inflated compared to less advanced countries.

  57. Re:In other news... by reve_etrange · · Score: 1

    I dunno, maybe there is a positive correlation between high health indicators and high desire for ephemeral things, like freedom.

    --
    .: Semper Absurda :.
  58. Re:In other news... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    Here's a documentary from dissidents that discusses torture. If you read the news in Spanish, this kind of accusation comes up from time to time. Who do you believe, the dissidents or the establishment? It's not like we can examine their jails to make sure.

    It is allowed to think the Cubans have a lousy government, and simultaneously believe that the US should not invade them.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  59. Re:In other news... by dbIII · · Score: 1

    That too, but the initial stink was due to organised crime linked to political figures losing a lot of money and the communist angle was more of an excuse. That's history. I'm amazed you are questioning it, because some of the mobsters had pet Democrats in their pockets.

  60. Re:In other news... by bsd_usr · · Score: 1

    Castro's revolution had its flaws but he never openly tortured or killed his fellow citizens

    That is flat out, 100% WRONG. One of my high school friends was from Cuba. Both his father and his uncle were tortured by the Castro regime because they didn't fight on the "right" side. They were lucky they weren't simply shot, but my friend's dad walked with a severe limp for the rest of his life. And Che was a murdering bastard who had a habit of shooting people he only suspected of not being loyal enough.

    Know what those Che tshirts are good for? It makes it easy to spot complete morons.

    True effing that! Damn kids wearing Che shirts. Bunch of ignorant idiots. It's offensive.

  61. Re:In other news... by bsd_usr · · Score: 1

    You should ask your parents what exactly they did to deserve the public revolutionary trials. As them how many people they tortured or killed, or how many were killed because of their denouncing to a corrupt military dictatorship drunk on the blood of countless people.

    And don't be a fool, I visit Cuba regularly and have several friends over there, they even got me to "la cabaña", the place where the trials and executions took place. I even got the list of executions, and even while I disagree in principle to the summary trials, the numbers were quite lower than I expected based in the hype from the Miami crowd.

    As for a joke, supporting 50 years of embargo against your won people with the explicit goal to create hardship and unrest is not even funny.

    You've been to "La Cabaña"? Big deal. So have I. I went there with my cousins. Then even got me in at Cuban prices. LOL They told me the truth about the place. In hushed voices. Why? Because if someone overhead, he'd probably be in trouble. The "Cañonazo" was pretty interesting to watch.

    I'm not going to argue with you, because unless you're of Cuban descent then you just really won't understand. You probably never grew up hearing about how great things were before Castro. You didn't grow up hearing about the stories and romanticism of pre-Castro Cuba.

    Ask your friends what would happen if they stood out in the open and cursed Castro. They're probably wouldn't even think about it for fear of what could happen.

  62. Re:In other news... by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

    The status of PoW is very murky in civil wars. Do you want criminals to be protected from execution simply on the grounds they were arrested during a war? The crimes these people were accused of commiting happened before the war on an ongoing basis. They were commiting repeated crimes against the citizens of Cuba, and they were tried for that.

    While you may argue that the trials were merely showtrials with a politically pre-determined outcome (I don't know enough on the issue to argue this one either way), these were at the very least superficially legitimate trials.

    --
    Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
  63. Re:In other news... by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

    You probably never grew up hearing about how great things were before Castro. You didn't grow up hearing about the stories and romanticism of pre-Castro Cuba.

    What if we rebranded that as "pre-embargo Cuba"...? Can you be sure that the hardships faced in modern Cuba are the result of the leadership and not the outside world?

    And you're of Cuban descent -- big deal. Your family were presumably in the privileged class for whom things were undoubtedly better. You're not going to listen to anyone not of Cuban descent? Fine. But remember, just being "Cuban" doesn't mean you understand everything and everyone in Cuba. I'm sure things are bad, but you can hardly expect anyone to take you seriously if you talk about the "romanticism" of Cuba when most people didn't even have access to plumbed water.

    --
    Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
  64. Re:In other news... by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

    ... and replaced it with another dictatorial, post-colonial government.

    Sorry, nope. A "post-colonial government" in this context refers to the sort of government where the colonial upper classes break free of the control of the colonial power in order to retain power within their group. As a more recent example of the transition from postcolonialism, consider Zimbabwe, where Robert Mugabe got in on the ticket of dismantling the post-colonial land ownership structure, where pretty much every acre of the country was owned by a minority of rich white people. His regime has been a total nightmare and has done even more damage to the country than the previous post-colonial setup, but that doesn't make him "post-colonial".

    My preferred adjective here would be "Stalinist", because it's not even communist -- just like Russia and China, it has ignored the notion of community control in favour of centralism. I'm also avoiding "soviet", because a soviet was a council, and centralist Stalinism restricted the soviets to a state of mere tokenism.

    --
    Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
  65. Re:In other news... by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

    Ah, I suppose that would be the emergency-room-based healthcare plan, brilliant.

    What's your problem? It's the most efficient, effective and humane method of healthcare known to man! Leave it all till it gets chronic and then the tumor is so big that it's really easy to find, you see?

    --
    Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
  66. Re:In other news... by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

    When the Soviet Union collapsed they stopped buying Cuban sugar at subsidized prices. It was that massive economic crash that led to thousands of Cubans leaving crippling poverty. Their form of government doesn't work, they know that, that's why they are privatizing and moving to an open economy.

    But do we know why it doesn't work? Remember that the USSR justified* their support as compensation for loss of trade due to the US embargo, and that with the fall of the Soviet Union, they went back to being artificially blocked from open trade. It is not possible to say beyond reasonable doubt that their form of government failed simply because of external intervention.

    * Note, I say "justified" -- I'm not saying it wasn't in reality a means to buy military presence in the area.

    --
    Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
  67. Re:In other news... by fche · · Score: 1

    The grandparent AC claimed the US was doing those things in Guantanamo.

  68. Re:Castro and Jesus by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

    That's a bit much. If we want to compare Jesus with any 20th century figure, you want to look at Gandhi. If we believe any of the speeches attributed to Jesus in the Gospels were true (whether we believe the miracles or not) then they are the writings of a genuinely humble* pacifist. This would also explain why Jesus never hitched up with the various revolutionary groups -- his philosophy left no space for militancy.

    * Yes, I know that it seems weird to call someone who reportedly claimed to be the son of God "humble", but either he was the son of God, or he was mentally ill (and was a humble man who just happened to genuinely believe himself to be the son of God), or he didn't actually ever say that, and it was just made up after him by someone else. (All this still assumes that the New Testament is essentially based on one genuine historical figure.)

    --
    Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
  69. Re:Killers by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

    Hopefully they'll truthfully portray the "freedom fighters" as also being cold blooded murderers who tortured, raped and killed innocent people as well.

    That stinking murderer castro is one of them.

    What, you mean just like the enthralling Abu Ghraib stage in Call of Duty 4?

    Or the level in Ghost Recon 6 where you sneak in and kidnap an unarmed family in the middle of the night, then escort them on a plane to be tortured by a Middle Eastern dictator

    Or perhaps the stage at the end of Medal of Honor where you play a British soldier charged with rounding up the Cossacks an Leinz to put them on trucks to the Soviet gulags. In particular, perhaps you are referring to the part where one of your fellow soldiers comments that the Russians haven't sent enough trucks, and that chorus of rifle fire you here as you are marching out to the final waypoint....

    --
    Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
  70. Re:In other news... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    oh, poor reading on my part.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  71. Re:In other news... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    "My preferred adjective here would be "Stalinist", because it's not even communist ..."

    I agree. That's why I wrote "wannabes". Nobody so far has implemented a true Communist government. They haven't even been good Socialists. They all get stuck at the "central government" part of Marx's theoretical "evolution" of society.

    And it's easy to see why: once in power, the central government simply doesn't want to give it up.

  72. Re:In other news... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    I should add: if, as Marx claimed, this represents "evolution" of society, I think it is pretty safe to say that in humanity's experience, Socialism is an evolutionary dead-end.

  73. Re:In other news... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    I'm not questioning it. I don't claim that's not real. But the militant partnering with Communist pretenders (because there has never been a real Communist nation in recorded history) is also true. The only question I see is: which reason was predominant?

  74. Re:In other news... by Sigg3.net · · Score: 1

    Health experts from all over the world, including the USA, have inspected Cuba's medical sector.
    I've visited 2 health clinics myself (though I'm not a doctor).

    Yes, they are that good, free for everyone and everywhere.
    Why? Because in Cuba education is king and every other person is a doctor.

    Not saying that the country doesn't have a lot of dark secrets, the health sector just isn't one of them. The US has more tropical diseases than Cuba. The #1 health threat to Cubans is the embargo.

    That aside, Cuba is an unfree totalitarian surveillance state.

  75. Re:In other news... by fche · · Score: 1

    NP, it happens!

  76. Re:In other news... by khallow · · Score: 1

    If they worked for Batista, or benefited from his ill gotten gains

    Even in 1980, a couple of decades later? For example, 125,000 people left Cuba in 1980 when Fidel Castro allowed exile for a brief time. That's long after any Batista allies would have been purged from Cuba.

  77. Re:In other news... by dbIII · · Score: 1

    It becomes blatantly obvious when you compare it with relations with other places that had similar governments.

  78. Re:In other news... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

    Soviets were not "immediately disbanded" - in fact, they ran the country well into 1920s. Also, the electoral regime established by Bolsheviks favored urban areas (and hence factory workers) over countryside (and hence peasants) by a factor of five, and those identified as bourgeois were stripped of the right to vote, so it was not your typical one man one vote democracy. But then that was the whole point of "dictatorship of the proletariat".

  79. Re:In other news... by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

    But Marx's preconditions for the revolution were never actually met in any of the revolutions under the banner of socialism or communism (neither of which terms were Marx's anyway....)

    --
    Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'