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Rare Docs Show How Apple Created Apple II DOS

An anonymous reader writes with a link to this "CNET story about arguably the most important technical documents in Apple's early history: the source code, contract letters, schematics and notes for the creation of the Apple II Disk Operating System (DOS). From 1977 and 1978, these documents chronicle Apple's first OS and what made the Apple II into a serious computer for the masses, able to support killer apps like Visicalc and build the PC industry."

130 comments

  1. Maybe it was just my youth but... by TWX · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...I could never figure out what to do with an Apple-II at a prompt. It always came down to inserting the software disk and rebooting the machine.

    It probably didn't help that the Packard Bell XT that dad bought had both "Teach Yourself DOS" and an MS-DOS 3.3 full command manual, and obviously the MS-DOS commands didn't work on the Apple...

    Sometimes I shudder to think that Packard Bell instigated the turning point that led to my professional career...

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    1. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      ...I could never figure out what to do with an Apple-II at a prompt.

      LOL.. memories.

      10 PRINT "I AM BOOTING"
      20 GOTO 10
      RUN

      "Ah, fuck it." - insert disk and reboot.

      Unfortunately, I never got to see a tape-driven unit!

    2. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by TWX · · Score: 2

      I did something similar, though a little bit ruder, on the built-in BASIC interpreter on an IBM PS/2 Model 25 that was the library card catalog machine when I was in school... It looked like a DOS prompt, but every input responded with one of half a dozen randomly-chosen rude responses...

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    3. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by mrpacmanjel · · Score: 1

      Just for LULZ I used to add something like this in a qbasic file and add it to the end of autoexec.bat

      10 input "C:\>"; haha$
      20 goto 10

      Especially the confusion on a Salesperson's face when rebooting wouldn't solve the "problem" !!!

      Used to drive people nuts!

    4. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by djdanlib · · Score: 2

      Ugh, I wouldn't want to think that either. Here, have some relief: Learning how to use MS-DOS was really what got you started. The underlying hardware was only a little bit relevant, mostly when you had to wrangle CONFIG.SYS just right to make it work, or wanted to know what video modes you could use in BASIC or which floppies to buy at the store.

    5. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by Imagix · · Score: 1

      Ah the days of "PR#6", "CATALOG", "RUN", "BRUN", "INIT HELLO" ...... (and... Slashdot's filter not liking so many caps...)

    6. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by drerwk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      CALL -151 the only command worth using

    7. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by TWX · · Score: 1

      Well, I installed an internal modem in that computer and added a 3.5" floppy drive (not realizing that it wouldn't address a 1.44MB disk so I had to tape over the high-density holes and reformat 720K) when the machine had only two drive bays, so we had to take the computer apart to drill holes in it to mount the 30MB hard disk drive on its side in an empty spot. So I guess it'd be analogous to learning about cars by upgrading a Chevette...

      Upgrading to MS-DOS 5.0 was useful with online help, though I wonder if having too much online help would have stunted my skills by making it too easy...

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    8. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by TWX · · Score: 1

      Heh. Try adding "echo Y|format C: /q" to the autoexec.bat on early versions of DOS that didn't clear the buffer before executing format commands...

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    9. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps it was because you didn't read the very good Apple II manuals. You could learn BASIC and even 6502 stuff from them. There was plenty of technical info in them and they were quite clearly written. http://www.classiccmp.org/cini/pdf/Apple/Apple%20II%20Basic%20Programming%20Manual.pdf
      ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/documentation/misc/a2_reference_manual_alt.pdf

      I was about 7 or 8 when I learnt BASIC and 6502 machine code from them. Because of that I believe we shouldn't underestimate what kids can learn.

    10. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 1

      I started off with a cassette based apple-ii. You had to play the tape until you heard the synch tone. Stop it. Plug in the player into the computer. Play it. Hope for the best. If it loaded you had to RUN it or BRUN the correct memory address to play it. Memories of the very crude Flight Simulator.

      --
      It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
    11. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by hoggoth · · Score: 4, Funny

      HAHA Good 'ol days. I wrote a little 6502 code that intercepted the keyboard input and every time it saw an "S" it spit out a "TH" to the system. I called it "LITHP".
      It drove the teachers nuts.

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    12. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With that one command, all else was possible.

    13. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by mark-t · · Score: 1
      Speaking of rude... typed from memory... hopefully no typos.

      10 A$ = "DON'T TOUCH ME! "
      20 M$ = A$ + A$ + A$ + A$
      30 POS = 1
      40 PRINT MID$(M$,POS,39);
      50 POS = POS + 4: IF POS > LEN(A$) THEN POS = POS - LEN(A$)
      60 IF PEEK(-16384) < 128 THEN GOTO 40
      70 HOME
      80 FOR I = 1 TO 1000:NEXT
      90 HTAB 10:VTAB 12
      100 PRINT "I SAID ";
      110 FOR I = 1 TO 1000:NEXT
      120 PRINT "DON'T ";
      130 FOR I = 1 TO 2000:NEXT
      140 PRINT "TOUCH ";
      150 FOR I = 1 TO 2000:NEXT
      160 PRINT "ME!"
      170 FOR I = 1 TO 3000:NEXT
      180 HOME
      190 POKE -16368,0
      200 GOTO 30

    14. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by TWX · · Score: 1

      I didn't read any Apple II manuals. They didn't provide them for us in elementary school. They expected us to play Oregon Trail or Number Munchers or the like.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    15. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always inserted a CP/M disk...

    16. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by elfprince13 · · Score: 1

      I did that to a lot of school graphing calculators, in TI-Basic: While 1 Input "",Str1 Disp rand*10^(randInt(-5,5)) End

    17. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by slartibartfastatp · · Score: 1

      what about

      PRINT CHR$(4) + "CATALOG"

      to invoke it from BASIC? ahh, the days.

      --
      -- --
    18. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      ahh... memories of learning Logo on the Apple II... and while I don't remember it, there's a comment on my report card from that era saying that I had taught the teacher how to use the computer (we had a computer at home since 1984 and I didn't start school until later than that: I was born in' 81).

      And yes, I realize that there's folks who were into computers before I was even born. I'll get off your lawn, now.

    19. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ha ha, this was the full intent!

    20. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      It's a shame you didn't manage to get your hands on any of the good reference books or Apple ][ magazines. I had a clone too (Laser 128) but also had some good books and the library had A+ on subscription.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    21. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by cormandy · · Score: 2
      Pretty good for off the top of your head. Only issue is that POS is a reserved word in Applesoft. Here is your code changing POS to PS:

      10 A$ = "DON'T TOUCH ME! "
      20 M$ = A$ + A$ + A$ + A$
      30 PS = 1
      40 PRINT MID$(M$,PS,39);
      50 PS = PS + 4: IF PS > LEN(A$) THEN PS = PS - LEN(A$)
      60 IF PEEK(-16384) < 128 THEN GOTO 40
      70 HOME
      80 FOR I = 1 TO 1000:NEXT
      90 HTAB 10:VTAB 12
      100 PRINT "I SAID ";
      110 FOR I = 1 TO 1000:NEXT
      120 PRINT "DON'T ";
      130 FOR I = 1 TO 2000:NEXT
      140 PRINT "TOUCH ";
      150 FOR I = 1 TO 2000:NEXT
      160 PRINT "ME!"
      170 FOR I = 1 TO 3000:NEXT
      180 HOME
      190 POKE -16368,0
      200 GOTO 30

      I ran it and it works!

    22. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I saw "INIT HELLO" it brought up some long buried fear which I didn't immediately understand...

    23. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yep. The original red pill.

    24. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple copied dos from Microsoft. Microsoft invented dos. Everyone knows that.

    25. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      Heh. Try adding "echo Y|format C: /q" to the autoexec.bat on early versions of DOS that didn't clear the buffer before executing format commands...

      So it was YOU! YOU are the one that got them to start clearing the buffer! YOU are the one that formatted my 5MB MFM drive! :>

    26. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by TWX · · Score: 1

      By virtue of requiring a reboot I was never banned from any retail shopping centers...

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    27. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by TWX · · Score: 1

      You're not a lot younger than I am; the school district I was in for elementary school wasn't very wealthy so they didn't replace things that ostensibly still worked...

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    28. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Funny

      I wrote a little 6502 code that intercepted the keyboard input and every time it saw an "S" it spit out a "TH"

      Tho you're the thupid idiot who got me thuthpended from thchool! Bathtard! I'm thtuck uthing my old thythtem becauthe of that.

    29. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      /sarcasm Right! That's why DOS3.x in 1978 had 32 character filenames WITH spaces and MS-DOS in 1980 had that shitty 8.3 filenames. ;-)

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_systems

    30. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      By virtue of requiring a reboot I was never banned from any retail shopping centers...

      Speaking of retail shopping centers... Did you ever have the experience of seeing the word "penis" scratched in MS paint on demo machines (sometimes all) every single time you went to one? And I wondered where the initial desire for a locked screen saver or boot-time "demo program" came from. lol

    31. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by TWiTfan · · Score: 2

      Packard Bell

      How DARE you speak those blasphemous words in this house!!

      --
      The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
    32. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by multipartmixed · · Score: 1

      Insert a disk containing the program you want to run. Type PR#6 and push enter.

      IIRC.

      --

      Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
    33. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      I used to call my BASIC programs IT so that I could type RUN IT and it would run.

    34. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by RevGregory · · Score: 1

      I didn't have hot chick posters on my wall in high school, I had Beagle Bros posters... http://beagle.applearchives.com/the_posters/poster_3.html http://beagle.applearchives.com/the_posters/poster_5.html ...there was plenty of time for girls when I was at the arcade, my bedroom was dedicated to hosting a BBS and coding!

    35. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by sproketboy · · Score: 2
    36. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by mark-t · · Score: 1

      I think I was misremembering lines 40 and 50, actually... I remember that things were set up so that it looked like it was scrolling horizontally, and I was just thinking that it always just continued to print from where it left off, which is where I got the value of '4' in line 50.

      What those two lines may have been, however, was this:

      40 PRINT CHR$(13) + MID$(M$,PS,39);
      50 PS = PS + 1: IF PS > LEN(A$) THEN PS = PS - LEN(A$)
      If I remember correctly, that will produce an illusion of the text scrolling from right to left, even though it is actually just scrolling up.

    37. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by cormandy · · Score: 1

      yes, that did the trick.

    38. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Guess who bought sublogic for the flight sim?

      You can still fly it. You can't go behind the mountains anymore.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    39. Re:Maybe it was just my youth but... by TWX · · Score: 1

      Never saw that, the clerks were fairly astute at cleaning up obvious tampering. Hence my autoexec fun...

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  2. Copied? by ozmanjusri · · Score: 5, Funny

    Were the documents Xeroxed as well?

    --
    "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    1. Re:Copied? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Were the documents Xeroxed as well?

      oooooooo! Low blow. On Slashdot you get points for insults, though!

    2. Re:Copied? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow you are young, no they were mimeographed.

  3. Shepardson Microsystems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I wonder what it was like working for Shepardson Microsystems back in the day. Not only did they do Apple's DOS, they also did Atari DOS, Atari Basic, and some of their stuff even found its way into OSS products.

    1. Re:Shepardson Microsystems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Bill Wilkinson. A truly wonderful person. Bill worked for Shepardson Microsystems and was able to purchase
      the rights to software he developed and helped developed while there. That was how he started Optimized System Software.
      He had 2 or 3 really smart people working for/with him, but could only take his vision so far (he had the genius to be M$,
      but not the criminal soulless temperament that was required). I think his focus was mainly Atari and Apple, but OSS
      didn't really focus on the PC initially (they, like everyone else were fascinated by the 68000 Macintosh), so that amounted
      to a failed opportunities. Also, Atari eventually demonstrated their lack of seriousness in the computer market, basically
      staying consumer-only oriented and their eventual purchase by Jack. Jack reaffirmed this (even with the Atari ST)
      while the PC silently entrenched itself as the _real_ next platform. OSS could not recover from these events and went out of business.

      You have to understand, the playing field looked level to all players - hell even IBM didn't understand what the PC was/will be.
      If they had, the royalties to M$ would not have been $50.00 a copy for every machine sold. (Adobe did the same trick with PostScript
      as Apple paid $100.00 in royalties for every LaserWriter sold - but a $7,000.00 printer - $100.00 didn't _sound_ like a lot).
      But too much software was already written for MS DOS before they realized their folly and it was impossible to pull the rug from
      under Bill's feet with a cheaper, replacement OS.

      But, despite the 20/20 vision looking backwards, at the time it was very exciting in those days which seemed to bring something
      new with each passing day. I can't remember being bored...

    2. Re:Shepardson Microsystems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AC of the message to which you responded.. thanks for taking the time to reply!

    3. Re:Shepardson Microsystems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Paul Laughton, who is the subject of the CNET article, currently maintains an open source BASIC interpreter for Android phones and tablets. It's developed quite a cult following:

      http://laughton.com/basic/

  4. here comes Bobby buzzkill! by Thud457 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is the Apple ][, not the Lisa.
    Therefore your attempt at humor is invalidated by being factually incorrect.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    1. Re:here comes Bobby buzzkill! by moderatorrater · · Score: 4, Funny

      Looks like everything's in order. From a technical and possibly legal perspective, then, everyone is barred from laughing at GP's post until further notice.

    2. Re:here comes Bobby buzzkill! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was going to laugh at how inaccurate it was.

      In fact, I think I will! HA HA HA HA HA! (deep breath) HA HA HA HA HA! (You know what that link contains. But you'll still click it, if only for that awkward feeling you get from watching it.)

  5. the more things change... by stenvar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Apple II was really only one of three massively successful PC lines: the Commodore, the TRS-80 line, and the Apple line, all introduced in 1977. The Apple II and TRS-80 both received floppy drives in 1978. The Apple II did keep production costs down, but both the machines and its disk drives were pretty expensive, so Apple really didn't do anything to help the masses with its cost savings. In terms of market share, Apple II was always a smaller player relative to the others. So, like today, Apple was had a product with a smaller market share, a lot of proprietary technology, and a large profit margin. And like today, they probably received more credit for innovation than they deserve.

    1. Re:the more things change... by Tempest_2084 · · Score: 2

      I'd say the Atari computer line was more successful than the TRS-80 line. Maybe I'm a bit biased though as the Atari 400 was my first computer.

    2. Re:the more things change... by the_B0fh · · Score: 0

      Seriously? Around 1983-1985, the market was 50% IBM PC/compatibles and 50% Apple II. How is that a smaller market share? And WTF is proprietary technology? Every system had its own OS, but Apple documented their stuff out the wazoo.

      ProntoDOS, a drop in replacement for DOS was written because Apple IIs came with a annotated copy of the source code to DOS. And that is "proprietary"?!

      Jesus Fucking Christ, you Apple Haters are really impressive.

    3. Re:the more things change... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      go back under the bridge troll.

    4. Re:the more things change... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      50% Apple2 in 1985? I think you need to lay off those drugs.

      It is you Apple fanboys that are really impressive.

      8bit hardware that cost as much as the 32-bit hardware from anyone else and you seriously think it had 50% market share? Half of the market simply did not have the money for that kind of nonsense.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    5. Re:the more things change... by N0decam · · Score: 1

      Seriously? Around 1983-1985, the market was 50% IBM PC/compatibles and 50% Apple II.

      [Citation needed] Given that the C64 was selling like hotcakes (market share that I found reference to on the net was between 35 and 40% over that time period, but I don't necessarily trust those sources) your 50/50 IBM/Apple split sounds suspiciously like it was pulled out of thin air.

    6. Re:the more things change... by jythie · · Score: 1

      Apple's market share around that time was about 10%, which is not shabby at all, but was no where near 50%.

    7. Re:the more things change... by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      You're right, pulled out of bad ram. It was from an old article, misremembered years ago. In 1982, Apple II and IBM PC/Compatibles had equivalent market share, but they weren't 50/50.

      http://jeremyreimer.com/m-item.lsp?i=137

    8. Re:the more things change... by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      Mis-remembered. 1985 was when the Apple //gs came out, so Apple's marketshare was already on the downward spiral. But IBM PCs were still pieces of shit compared to the Apple IIs.

      I just recently had a chance to play Wasteland on a PC and boy, did it suck, compared to the graphics that was available on the Apple ][s.

      As I responded to N0decam, the one time Apple IIs and IBM PCs/compatibles had equivalent market shares was in 1982, but that wasn't 50/50.

    9. Re:the more things change... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In terms of market share, Apple II was always a smaller player relative to the others. So, like today, Apple was had a product with a smaller market share, a lot of proprietary technology, and a large profit margin.

      Proprietary technology? There wasn't a single component in an Apple II (including Woz's disk controller) that wasn't off-the-shelf until the Apple IIe was introduced, and if you wanted to see how the software worked, all you had to do was look at the source code that Apple helpfully provided. If you'd really like to look at proprietary technology, how about discussing the Commodore 1541 drive, which couldn't hold a candle to the Apple drives in terms of speed even though it had its own 6502 processor onboard.

    10. Re:the more things change... by Tempest_2084 · · Score: 1

      >>I just recently had a chance to play Wasteland on a PC and boy, did it suck, compared to the graphics that was available on the Apple ][s.

      OK, I'm going to have to call bullcrap on that one. I grew up with the Apple II version and loved it (I think it was the only game I played for over a year), but there's no way the graphics were better than the PC version (unless you're talking about the CGA version). Check out Mobygames if you doubt me: http://www.mobygames.com/game/wasteland/screenshots

      The only thing the Apple II version had going for it over the PC version were less bugs (the PC version was buggy as hell for some reason).

    11. Re:the more things change... by stenvar · · Score: 1

      I didn't say that there weren't other massively successful PC lines, I merely gave the three earliest (those introduced in 1977).

    12. Re:the more things change... by stenvar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Seriously? Around 1983-1985, the market was 50% IBM PC/compatibles and 50% Apple II. How is that a smaller market share?

      Your numbers are wrong. Apple never had anywhere near 50% market share in the desktop computer market.

      And WTF is proprietary technology?

      Technology that belongs to Apple and is incompatible with everything else. Many other machines used standard floppy disk controller chips.

      Jesus Fucking Christ, you Apple Haters are really impressive.

      You Apple fanboys and your ability to falsify history are really impressive.

    13. Re:the more things change... by stenvar · · Score: 2

      1985 was when the Apple //gs came out, so Apple's marketshare was already on the downward spiral. But IBM PCs were still pieces of shit compared to the Apple IIs.

      Wow, the Jobs reality distortion field is apparently still in full effect. In 1985, you could get an Amiga 1000 with hardware accelerated graphics, a 68k processor, and a multitasking OS. The PC had EGA cards, with higher resolution than the Apple II. There were tons of other interesting personal computers in the market. The Apple II was still stuck with its half-assed late 70's graphics hack. My Apple II was long mothballed by then. Yeah, the PCs were pieces of sh*t in 1985, but so were the Apple IIs: the two crappiest computer lines from that era survived and took over the market, and the rest is history.

    14. Re:the more things change... by mrbester · · Score: 1

      CGA was the standard for PCs until you managed to get a Hercules card (required for Autoroute with its special "hi-res" mode) to up the resolution.

      Plus Apples had the graphic designer advantage that what you saw on the screen was exactly the same size when printed.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    15. Re:the more things change... by voss · · Score: 1

      Atari was outselling both IBM and Apple in 1982, right before the C-64 came out.

      http://arstechnica.com/features/2005/12/total-share/4/

    16. Re: the more things change... by Wovel · · Score: 1

      Look again, you misread the chart. Atari had the smallest marketshare by 84.

    17. Re:the more things change... by Nyder · · Score: 1

      I'd say the Atari computer line was more successful than the TRS-80 line. Maybe I'm a bit biased though as the Atari 400 was my first computer.

      Where i grew up, the schools all had TRS-80's and no Apples. So I cut my teeth on Radio Shack & a C64 before I got my hands on an Apple II.

      Today? I have all 3 of them. TRS-80 4p, Apple IIe & IIgs, C64 + C128. All working.

      My conclusion? The Apple computers rocked. It was made to be used and abused. Built in Assembler Monitor, tons of ports, easy access to the insides. A computer that said, "Learn all of me!!!!"

      --
      Be seeing you...
    18. Re:the more things change... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He was talking about the ][gs, which did have much better graphics than anything from IBM at the time.

    19. Re:the more things change... by repetty · · Score: 1

      I OWNED a Commodore 1541 hard drive and, yes, they were slow but they held a lot of data and -- most importantly -- they doubled as a convenient electrical hibachi.

    20. Re:the more things change... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2

      " Apple never had anywhere near 50% market share in the desktop computer market."

      A fact which is rendered meaningless by the fact that the market wasn't even called the desktop computer market at the time. Apple's target market at the time was the Home Computer, whereas IBM was targeting the Small Office / Business market.

      "Technology that belongs to Apple and is incompatible with everything else. Many other machines used standard floppy disk controller chips.

      ... and proprietary filesystems and encoding schemes. There was no such thing as a non-proprietary PC until much later in history.

      "You Apple fanboys and your ability to falsify history are really impressive."

      The irony is tripled by your complete lack of grasp of the facts of said history.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    21. Re:the more things change... by pamar · · Score: 3, Informative

      You apparently forgot the fact that Apple published schematics and was built with "off-the-shelf" components, and this soon resulted in a massive "clones" market, offering good if not perfect compatibility (the ROMs were easy to copy, too) at vastly reduced prices.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Apple_II_clones

    22. Re:the more things change... by PRMan · · Score: 1

      Actually, not. But Atari 8-bit blew Apple II out of the water:

      http://www.trs-80.org/was-the-trs-80-once-the-top-selling-computer/

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    23. Re:the more things change... by whit3 · · Score: 1

      And WTF is proprietary technology?

      Technology that belongs to Apple and is incompatible with everything else. Many other machines used standard floppy disk controller chips.

      That's twisted; proprietary technology means OWNED technology. Apple had a patent on some its floppy controllers, and IBM decided on a NEC part, uPD765 if memory serves, that was proprietary to NEC. It wasn't a standard, either, just a documented solution that DOS was made compatible with.

      All the early floppy disks were proprietary. CDs had a data-format standard, though.

      A standard is built around a full formal specification, by a group (IEEE, ANSI...) that usually is not the 'owner' of the underlying patents, but is an interest group which sponsors the publication and growth/modification of the specification.

    24. Re:the more things change... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple has never, ever, made, or marketed a competitive computer. Not then, not now.

    25. Re:the more things change... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Apple ][ went up to 64k. I don't see how 68k is significantly better.

    26. Re:the more things change... by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 2

      Agree with you. Apparently the OP never read "Beneath Apple DOS".

      Diversi-DOS and ProntoDOS (sold by Beagle Bros) were a much better DOS then DOS due to massive reading speed increases.

      Hell Copy ][+ when it booted up would two full tracks of data faster then DOS could read a few sectors! Tons of people were figuring things out on the Apple and sharing it.

    27. Re:the more things change... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, you're gonna have to retire this login now. Enjoy your new 7-digit UID.

    28. Re:the more things change... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hat's twisted; proprietary technology means OWNED technology.

      Yes, and in this case it means "owned by Apple" (proprietary to Apple) and not available for purchase in the open market, as opposed to "owned by someone else and available for purchase".

    29. Re:the more things change... by sa666_666 · · Score: 1

      Not sure if this is supposed to be serious or a joke, but the 68K refers to a Motorola 68000 CPU, and it could address up to 9 *MB* of RAM. It was in an absolutely different class compared to an 8-bit Apple ][.

    30. Re:the more things change... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps Apple had higher margins not just because the market would bear it, but because they had to fold profit into the company to invest in themselves. Commodore and TRS were backed by companies with other product revenue to lean on.

    31. Re:the more things change... by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Until Apple sued them all out of business.

    32. Re:the more things change... by butlerm · · Score: 1

      The Apple IIgs was dramatically different from all other Apple II models. It was backward compatible, but came with a 16 bit processor (the 65816), much more RAM (256K or more), greatly improved sound and video, and a GUI shell much like that of the Mac, plus color, which nearly all Macs lacked at the time. It was a little underpowered compared to the 68000 based Mac, Amiga, and Atari ST, but a more than respectable upgrade to the Apple II series nonetheless.

      As educational / entertainment devices even the older Apple IIs ran circles around the PC until EGA was widely deployed in the late 1980s. PC games inevitably were designed for CGA graphics, with a fixed set of four unimaginative colors at a time. The Apple II was better than that almost ten years earlier, to say nothing of the much less expensive Commodore 64. The PC was intended primarily for business purposes, and it showed.

    33. Re:the more things change... by pamar · · Score: 1

      I am from a European country, and I can assure you that there was a thriving clone market - you could get any at a much more affordable price basically everywhere. These were probably under the radar for Apple - or maybe they prosecuted only American-based makers/resellers because they couldn't afford international cases, but the fact is that, even if this was surely not part of Apple's plan - Apple ][ had a larger share of the market than what you would expect by just comparing "official" Apple numbers to Tandy or Commodore.

      http://old-computers.com/MUSEUM/computer.asp?st=1&c=1031

    34. Re:the more things change... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There were a few programs and games which used the external drives processor in all sorts of deliciously hacky ways!!

    35. Re:the more things change... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really... the EGA was IBM's best card when the IIgs came out in late 1986, and although it had fewer colors at 320x200, it had a 640x350x16 mode that the IIgs couldn't match. Then the VGA came out a few months later and beat the IIgs on every front except the 320x200 "super color" mode with 200 16-color palettes.

  6. A Computer For The Masses? by westlake · · Score: 4, Informative

    From 1977 and 1978, these documents chronicle Apple's first OS and what made the Apple II into a serious computer for the masses.

    The computer for the masses has to be affordable.

    The original retail price of the computer was US $1298 (with 4 kB of RAM) and US $2638 (with the maximum 48 kB of RAM). The original Apple II was discontinued at the start of 1981, having been superseded by the II+.

    An estimated 40,000 machines were sold for its 4-year production run.

    Apple II series

    What cost $1298 in 1977 would cost $4848.66 in 2012. What cost $2638 in 1977 would cost $9854.21 in 2012. The Inflation Calculator

    Following Visicalc's release, Bricklin and Frankston developed ports for the Atari 800 and Commodore PET, both of which could be done easily due to sharing 6502 CPUs with the Apple II and being able to recycle large portions of code. Other versions followed for the HP 150 and TRS-80 Model I and II. Finally, Visicalc was ported to the IBM PC and became one of the initial pieces of software available for it on its 1981 launch.

    VisiCalc

    1. Re:A Computer For The Masses? by jythie · · Score: 4, Informative

      'Masses' is a fairly relative concept, as is 'affordable'. Compared to the targeting of the IBM compatible computers it could be argued that the Apple ][ line was more a computer for mass consumers, even if at its price point it was out of the range of many people. It is kinda like today out the Canon 5Dmk3 is a FF camera for the 'masses' in that it is intended (or at least marketed to) 'prosumers' as opposed to professionals and companies. Its price point is still higher then most people can plunk down for a camera, but it is still aimed at the mass market.

      Now, it could be argued there were other 'for the masses' computers also being sold at the time, but that is why it is "A" computer for the masses, not "The" computer for the masses.

      I think people tend to forget how computers were seen and marketed at the time, and how little attention there was on anyone other then hobbyists and professionals. The Apple ][ and other computers like it really were a new push to get usable computers into the homes of a much larger audience.

    2. Re:A Computer For The Masses? by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      Yes, having been around and associated with computer geeks at the time, I can say for certain that the primary computers we were using back them were Commandos. They were everywhere. Apples would pop up here and there but mostly you just saw ads for them, not in actual use. Even in the 80s Apple was all about marketing.

    3. Re:A Computer For The Masses? by WillAdams · · Score: 1

      Visicalc --- one of my most vivid memories from childhood was being in a computer store in Richmond, VA when an accountant came in and declared,

      ``I want a Visicalc.''

      The salesperson patiently explained that Visicalc was only a software program and that to use it, he would need a computer.

      ``Whatever, give me everything I need for a Visicalc.''

      The salesperson then proceeded to lay out almost one of everything in the store (high-end items were possible, the 132 column printer, 80 col. card, dual-disk drives, &c.), which the accountant paid for w/ a company check, loaded up into his Trans Am and drove off with.

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    4. Re:A Computer For The Masses? by putaro · · Score: 1

      Heh - I was selling computers at the UCSD bookstore around that time and I had a customer come in one time and tell me that another store had sold her a "DBase" machine and she wanted to figure out what it was. Turned out to be an Apple II+ with a CP/M card.

    5. Re:A Computer For The Masses? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      The price ranges were pretty huge. For the max RAM version that is reaching the price realm of a new car, and even the lower end version could run you more money than a reliable used car. I didn't know much about Apple then since they weren't sold anywhere nearby and I'd only ever seen one. However I did want that TRS-80. It was much more affordable (sans-disk) at around $500 I think, and available in stores instead of mail-order. And being in a store meant you could drive over and poke at it (I remember there were often around 3-5 people hanging around the store's TRS-80 every time I wanted to look at it). I didn't even hear about Commodore until a few years later.

      But ultimately the parents thought it was a stupid idea to spend the little money I had on it. After all I was going to college in a couple years and a computer wouldn't be practical compared to saving money to buy a car.

    6. Re:A Computer For The Masses? by westlake · · Score: 1

      'Masses' is a fairly relative concept, as is 'affordable'.

      I'm unwilling to bend quite so far as this.

      The median household income in 1977 was $13, 570. Money Income in 1977 of Households in the United States

    7. Re:A Computer For The Masses? by butlerm · · Score: 1

      The Apple II wouldn't be more than a footnote in history if those prices didn't go way down, which they did. By the mid 1980s virtually every school in the country had a classroom full of them.

  7. we could have a whole thread just on bad keyboards by Thud457 · · Score: 2

    Atari 400

    HAHA, mebrane keyboard peasant. Full keyboard master race checking in.


    actually, in this case, I think I'm pretty safe in assuming that the Joint Chiefs of Staff would concur...

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  8. Re:we could have a whole thread just on bad keyboa by Tempest_2084 · · Score: 1

    Yes, that membrane keyboard was a pain (quite literally), but not nearly as bad as the pain from waiting 20 min for your game to load from a tape on the 410 only to have it error out at the last minute.

  9. Lithp and Thcheme by tepples · · Score: 2

    I wrote a little 6502 code that intercepted the keyboard input and every time it saw an "S" it spit out a "TH" to the system. I called it "LITHP".

    It's too bad you weren't a little bit older, or you could have written an interpreter for a language with parenthesized syntax. You could have called it "Thcheme".

  10. Slightly Relevant: Web Based Apple II Emulator by MrYingster · · Score: 5, Interesting

    running Apple DOS 3.3.
    http://porkrind.org/a2/
    For those interested in reliving the memories of Apple DOS.... This emulator is all written in javascript. There seem to be quite a few ROMs present as well to try.

  11. A short trip down memory lane by ciurana · · Score: 2

    If you bleed in 6 colors and are a true Apple hacker, I have two words for you:

    INIT HELLO

    Cheers!

    --
    http://eugeneciurana.com | http://ciurana.eu
  12. Licensed by Xerox by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Try reading actual history, not fiction. Apple licensed Xerox's inventions after having been invited to view them... They also employed some of the key people at Xerox at Apple.

    1. Re:Licensed by Xerox by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      Try reading actual history, not fiction. Apple licensed Xerox's inventions after having been invited to view them... They also employed some of the key people at Xerox at Apple.

      are you implying that apple wasn't able to afford to use xerox copy machines despite licensing from xerox? (it still wasn't invented by apple)

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    2. Re:Licensed by Xerox by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Apple licensed Xerox's inventions after having been invited to view them...

      No, Apple didn't license anything. They got a couple of tours in exchange for offering Xerox a chance to buy stock and that's it. No code. No copyrighted material. No documentation. They had to implement their whole GUI based on their notes from the visits.

  13. Re:we could have a whole thread just on bad keyboa by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

    I can understand your confusion because of the GP's poor spelling, but - he meant he had the "me brain" interface. It was a prototype direct neural interface.

    Only the coolest kids were allowed to own it.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  14. Command-line hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All these stories are precisely why I avoided early PCs like the plague. It was bad enough using a command-line interface on dumb terminals to interact with the mainframe at work. Who wanted to go home and deal with the same crap? But then, the Mac came along, and the WYSIWYG interface eased many of the intuitive problems with using computers.

    1. Re:Command-line hell by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      So basically, your a pussy?

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  15. What DOS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple II used CPM, not DOS.

    1. Re:What DOS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And your mother, apparently, used drugs while pregnant.

    2. Re:What DOS? by cormandy · · Score: 2

      You're drunk. And to confuse you further, here is the Z-80 card Microsoft produced to allow CP/M to run on an Apple ][ http://www.z80.eu/apple2.html

    3. Re:What DOS? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 2

      Apple in 1978 starting shipping _their_ version of DOS 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, and ProDOS in 1983. Microsoft didn't ship their MS-DOS until 1981.

      The Apple ][ _could_ run CP/M _if_ you had a Z-80 card. i.e. Wordstar.

      References:
        * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_DOS
        * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRODOS
        * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-DOS

  16. 35 Days to write an OS by Fool106 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Pretty crazy to think he wrote an OS in 35 days. How long did it take Linus to write linux?

    1. Re:35 Days to write an OS by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      How long did it take Linus to write linux?

      It took about a year. That is, from the beginning of the project to the release of the first public version.

    2. Re:35 Days to write an OS by wed128 · · Score: 1

      Given a small featureset and relatively simple hardware, 35 days sounds about right for something like Apple II DOS. No multitasking, a simple command language, limited hardware to support.... It was cutting edge then, but it's a student project now.

    3. Re:35 Days to write an OS by White+Flame · · Score: 1

      People can and still do write OSes in 35 days. Just look at the 8-bit CPU & microcontroller hobbyist groups. Lots of new or rehashed implementations come up relatively quickly, vs trying to do the same on full-on workstations. The scope of these machines allow complete understanding and control to be quite tractable in a 1-person effort.

    4. Re:35 Days to write an OS by butlerm · · Score: 1

      He didn't write an OS, he wrote a disk operating system, i.e. a system that operated disks. They called it DOS for a reason.

    5. Re:35 Days to write an OS by Arker · · Score: 1

      Yes, they called it a DOS for a reason. It was a more advanced form of Operating System than was typical for personal machines, you see, it had these great things called 'disks' and it needed an Operating System that knew how to use them...

      --
      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
    6. Re:35 Days to write an OS by butlerm · · Score: 1

      If you asked the creators, they would probably be embarrassed to call it an operating system at all. Apple DOS didn't handle keyboard support, video support, sound support, or printer support. That was all handled using either the monitor (a BIOS in ROM that was not part of DOS), peripheral card ROMs in some cases, or by direct access to the hardware.

      MS-DOS was similar. It handled file I/O and that is it. A disk operating system, not a computer operating system. The BIOS was separate, not controlled by Microsoft, but rather by the PC manufacturer, and in ROM.

    7. Re:35 Days to write an OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > A disk operating system, not a computer operating system.

      Your elitism is showing. It offered a command shell running from RAM, loaded programs, handled errors... a simple OS to be sure but still an OS.

  17. Of course the numbers are wrong by voss · · Score: 1

    http://arstechnica.com/features/2005/12/total-share/4/
    http://arstechnica.com/features/2005/12/total-share/5/

    The commodore 64 vastly outsold the Apple II after 1982 and the Atari 400/800 and the TRS-80 outsold the Apple II before 1982

  18. Given that Linux is still in use... by voss · · Score: 1

    The length of time it took to write it needs to be put in perspective.

    1. Re:Given that Linux is still in use... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Apple DOS was not finished in 35 days either, they had several versions. Even the final version is incredibly tiny compared to Linux, it's even small compared to MS-DOS or CP/M. It's a stretch to call this an operating system given that state of the art at the time was Unix, VMS, VM/CMS, and so forth. The micro-computer world was essentialy a decade or two behind the rest of the computer world. That there were even professionals at the time able to code this up for Apple was due to the use of these CPUs as peripherals and equipment used by larger computers.

  19. use the source by v1 · · Score: 1

    the source code, contract letters, schematics and notes for the creation of the Apple II Disk Operating System (DOS)

    I did a good deal of assembly back in 'th day, and I ran Merlin Pro. I had decompiled FaskDiskOne (an optimized version of Dos 3.3) It featured optimized sector reading and interleaving. Nibbles were decoded on the fly, instead of after the sector was read, greatly improving read speed. After getting that fully loaded into merlin I could tweak it any way I liked. Though all I really ever ended up doing was implementing EA's copy protection in my main programming disk. Still, it was nice being able to directly modify your DOS.

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
  20. and the coke. mountains of coke everywhere. by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    accountant ... his Trans Am

    Holy crap, the late 70's where a whole different country...

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  21. Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple built the PC industry? HAHAHA. Is it still April 1?

  22. Apple Innovation by emil · · Score: 2

    In addition to the disk controller, credited in the article as dramatically (and masterfully) reducing the parts count and expense, the Apple 2 was the first computer to use a switching power supply.

    1977: Apple II is designed with a switching mode power supply. "For its time (1977) it was a breakthrough, since until then switching mode power supplies weren’t used. Designed by Rod Holt,". "Rod Holt was brought in as product engineer and there were several flaws in Apple II that were never publicized. One thing Holt has to his credit is that he created the switching power supply that allowed us to do a very lightweight computer".

    The design of the color graphics capability also demonstrated intelligent and practical engineering:

    Color on the Apple II series took advantage of a quirk of the NTSC television signal standard, which made color display relatively easy and inexpensive to implement. The original NTSC television signal specification was black-and-white. Color was tacked on later by adding a 3.58-MHz subcarrier signal that was partially ignored by B&W TV sets. Color is encoded based on the phase of this signal in relation to a reference color burst signal. The result is that the position, size, and intensity of a series of pulses define color information. These pulses can translate into pixels on the computer screen.

    The Apple II display provided two pixels per subcarrier cycle. When the color burst reference signal was turned on and the computer attached to a color display, it could display green by showing one alternating pattern of pixels, magenta with an opposite pattern of alternating pixels, and white by placing two pixels next to each other. Later, blue and orange became available by tweaking the offset of the pixels by half a pixel-width in relation to the colorburst signal. The high-resolution display offered more colors simply by compressing more, narrower pixels into each subcarrier cycle. The coarse, low-resolution graphics display mode worked differently, as it could output a short burst of high-frequency signal per pixel to offer more color options.

    The Apple 2 showed the computer hardware engineering trade that much, much more could be done with less. I'm no Apple fanboi, but accolades earned and deserved should be recognized.

    1. Re:Apple Innovation by stenvar · · Score: 1

      The Apple II showed that Apple could cut corners on engineering and hardware, put it in a pretty box and market the hell out of it, and still charge more than everybody else. That's good for Apple, it's been bad for the industry and consumers, and the sooner people wise up to it, the better.

  23. Re:we could have a whole thread just on bad keyboa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    mebrane

    Full keyboard master race checking in.

    Oh, the irony is delicious! It makes me brane hurt.

  24. VisiCalc? by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    I've heard different stories on why VisiCalc was developed on Apple first. In one interview, a key project person (I don't remember which) said it was simply because the Apple happened to be available at the time as the Pets and TRS's were booked up. Another was that Steve Jobs gave them discounts on Apples for porting one of the company's popular games to Apple sooner.

  25. More crap from CNET by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why is slashdot still linking to CNET? I thought we learned a lesson about how truly rotten CNET is. Guess not.

  26. Re:we could have a whole thread just on bad keyboa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh, you had an Atari 800?