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H-1B Cap Reached Today; Didn't Get In? Too Bad
First time accepted submitter Dawn Kawamoto writes "Employers stampeding into the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service to get their H-1B petitions filed before the cap is reached are getting the door slammed in their face today. The cap was hit in near record time of 5 days, compared to the 10 weeks it took last year to have more than enough petitions to fulfill the combined cap of 85,000 statutory and advanced degree H-1B petitions. While U.S. tech workers scream that they're losing out on jobs as H-1B workers are hired, employers are countering that the talent pool is lacking and they need to increase the cap. Of course, Congress is wrangling in on this one as to whether it's time to raise the bar."
talent pool is lacking = we don't want to pay
> While U.S. tech workers scream that they're losing out on jobs as H-1B workers are hired
No *competent* tech worker is screaming that. Seriously. If you are in tech and unemployed right now, it is nobody's fault but your own; everyone is hiring like a madman right now.
If you scroll through the government's visa data, you notice something surprising. The biggest employer of foreign tech workers is not Microsoft â" not by a long shot. Nor is it Google, Facebook or any other name-brand tech company. The biggest users of H-1Bs are consulting companies, or as Ron Hira calls them, "offshore-outsourcing firms."
For the past decade, he's been studying how consulting firms use temporary work visas to help American companies cut costs. He says they use the visas to supply cheaper workers here, but also to smooth the transfer of American jobs to information-technology centers overseas. "What these firms have done is exploit the loopholes in the H-1B program to bring in on-site workers to learn the jobs [of] the Americans to then ship it back offshore," he says. "And also to bring in on-site workers who are cheaper on the H-1B and undercut American workers right here."
The biggest user of H-1B last year was Cognizant, a firm based in New Jersey. The company got 9,000 new visas. Following close behind were Infosys, Wipro and Tata â'â' all Indian firms.
Have you read my blog lately?
"In nearly every other case a foreign coder is a better match for the employer."
In nearly every other case a foreign coder is a better match for the cheap ass that wants to give himself a bonus for having higher profit margins because he paid less wages.
There fixed that for you.
The 10 largest users of H1B are off-shoring contract-houses. Last year, those 10 off-shoring companies claimed 40,000 of the 85,000 available H1B visas.
The way it works is that they low-bid on some project, bring in their people on H1B get them trained up and then send them back home to work on the same project.
Citation: Who's Hiring H-1B Visa Workers? It's Not Who You Might Think
All the PR about H1B says that we have a skills-shortage here, but if that is true, then H1B is contributing to the skills shortage rather than fixing it. Most of what is wrong with H1B could be fixed if the politicians actions matched their rhetoric - instead of being an unofficial dual-purpose immigration visa that typically expires just months before the immigrant clears all the paperwork for an green-card, make it a fast-track immigrant only visa - everybody on an H1B is guaranteed a green-card within just one year of residency. That way instead of being a brain-drain out of the US, we would be sucking in the (supposedly) higher-qualified foreign candidates to become permanent contributing members of US society.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Jobs report today said no jobs being created.
Yet we are hiring many h1b's.
Meanwhile, many of our 30 year olds are suicidal over a combination of unforgivable debt and no jobs.
Quite a disconnect.
I think it's time to put a tariff on offshored/outsourced jobs- including h1b's.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
If there's a shortage of H-1B visas (meaning there are times you can't obtain one no matter how much you're willing to pay), they should be put up for auction and sold to the highest bidder so everyone who wants one badly enough can get one. It's irresponsible of the government not to look for ways to reduce our tax burden.
Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
From experience, I can say there has been a big change from 2004 to 2012.
In 2004, my company got masters degree candidates for bachelors degree salaries.
In 2008, my company got bachelor degree candidates for bachelors degree salaries.
In 2011, we were getting disengaged bachelor degree candidates. They basically counted on working for us for 6 months and then being rotated elsewhere. This had the expected and predictable effects.
In 2012, they laid 90% of us off and replaced us with infosys people. They unexpectedly lost another 5%. Infosys was unable staff so we had the weird situation of not even training our replacements but recording training sessions. I went to lunch with a few of the survivors last week and it's a complete mess.
Funny thing is- apparently these workers count as still being indian employees of infosys. They are working some fantastic hours, don't have the skill set and are trying hard to acquire it, but they are not getting paid U.S. salaries even they they are located in the U.S. - just good pay by Indian standards. Apparently they'll be rotated back to india and another similar crew will be brought in. I don't know- perhaps it's that 6 month thing overseas like we do with Aramco. I hear they are living 6+ to an apartment.
So we are competing in our own country for jobs with people being paid in the $35000 to $50000 range when those jobs cost $100k locally and require degrees that are a lot more expensive to obtain here than in india.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
And who uses the "consulting companies"? Your local company. They use these "consulting companies" for their IT needs.
And in the meantime they bitch and moan about the lack of local talent.
Listen folks: business people are two faced liars. Anyone who defends them is the same.
One of the issues that always comes up when talking about H-1B is that employers say they can't satisfy their needs with the talent already available. So, how about adding the requirement that any H-1B applications require the company post a "Help Wanted" ad in a national database for three months before the application is approved. Let's see why companies don't like citizen talent. Let's see how citizens can fill those jobs.
Just scrolling through the +5 comments, I see a ton of xenophobia...
Can't find an entry level IT job? Where are you? Arkansas? Here in silicon valley, we're experiencing another surge in hiring. I'm pretty low on the skillset, so whenever I get myself back into IT, I consider the economy to be doing well. Case in point... Company I work for. We've been losing a ton of local talent to google who's been on a hiring binge. When a small shop like ours (120 or so employees) can afford to pay great salaries, but we lose out to name brands like google, we have to turn to H1B.
And for the H1B worker, life isn't all cherries and apple pie. Case in point, this big ass march from immigration voice.
http://imgur.com/YKxR6NG
See the white guy with pelican case in tow? That's me.
Let's say you're here from India on H1B and you have a family emergency. You have to go home. So many H1B's are scared to go home, because when they try to return more often than not, they're denied re-entry into the country. I haven't met a single H1B that wouldn't LOVE to be a US citizen, but instead we give them a non-citizen status as an H1B that gives them basically no rights as a US citizen.
I think we should just trash H1B altogether, and allow anyone of decent education (BA or BS) come live here, become a citizen, and pay taxes.
As slashdotters, we shouldn't hate on the H1B people. They are not the problem. It's our policy, the very creation of H1B to sidestep proper citizenship that is.
Maybe it's time to clarify what kind of a site Slashdot is? It claims to be "News for Nerds" but there are a lot of nerds who have H-1B visas, or live outside the US.
This article's title is just plain nasty. There is room for debate on these issues, and I personally think the numbers of H-1B visas are excessive (or better put, the requirements for getting one are too lenient), but the idea that people applying for H-1B's are to be despised is very offputting to potential users of this site. Unless, of course, Slashdot isn't really for these people in which case you should be more explicit about that.
On the issue of H-1B's themselves, it is necessary to separate out generic issues of free trade, from issues that are specific to trade in human labor. Any valuable commidity will benefit country that imports it. If there were a ban on importing rare earth metals to the US, and suddently this was lifted, it would benefit companies that utilize these metals (and ultimately consumers) and harm producers of rare earth metals. However the net benefit would be positive, this is standard economic theory. Now I imagine that when the ban is lifted, the rare earth producers would say "there is no shortage of rare earth metals, people just aren't willing to pay a fair price. If people paid more, we could mine previously uneconomic deposits, etc.". This would be a mistaken interpretation, again because economic theory says that the welfare of society is maximized under free trade.
Now this theory breaks down when it applies to people, but only because of externalities. That is, people who come to the US on H-1B visas may have a negative influence on the US apart from their impact on the labor force. Some of these are simply because a person in the US temporarily will be less engaged with the community and civil society. Also many Americans prefer that the US retain its cultural and ethinc composition, and so these people may be negatively affected.
So there are many valid arguments against H-1B visas, although most of the economic arguments are wrong. I think the criteria should be stricter so that only the people who add the most value to the economy can get one. This way, the US would get the maximum benefit for the minimum number of people. A masters degree should be a minimum.
Anyway that is my view on H-1B visas but can we please keep personal animosity towards people on H-1B's out of it?
If the shortage is so terrible why aren't we seeing tons of stories talking about exploding pay rates and people hopping from company to company because of ridiculous job offers? Oh that's right, it's because there is no shortage of talent, just an unwillingness for them to pay the market rate.
Here's one perspective re this issue.
Who's Hiring H-1B Visa Workers? It's Not Who You Might Think
An effective "democracy" creates the illusion the people have a say in their government.
Welcome to globalization ... the corporations and governments tell us it's inevitable and that it's good. Now it's a race to the bottom.
The companies who want this aren't incapable of finding talent, they're unwilling to pay the salaries of Americans.
They're inshoring the jobs basically and driving down domestic wages by making you compete with underpaid foreign workers.
Since corporate profits will be at an all time high, so will executive bonuses and shareholder value.
Somehow, that makes it even more awesome for the rest of us.
???
Profit
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
...Doesn't the H1-B guy LIVING IN THE USA have the same cost-of-living handicap? How can he survive with such a smaller salary than the US worker?
By typically being a single individual not raising a family, saving for retirement in this country, nor paying off educational debts incurred in this country. Capische?
Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
Doesn't the H1-B guy LIVING IN THE USA have the same cost-of-living handicap? How can he survive with such a smaller salary than the US worker?
He has no peer pressure. He can live in a bad part of town; he can drive a junk car; he does not need to visit bars and strip clubs; he does not need to marry and raise children (with all expenses of that.) All he needs is a few years to park their $behind at, so that he can save as much as possible.
Not every H1B does that, but I know those who do. It's not nice to live like that, as in barracks. However it's OK for a young man who just wants to work for three years, get his money and get out. All the nice houses and expensive wives can be had back at his home country, much cheaper.
My mother tells me that I am sooo handsome, intelligent, and just wonderful. She asks, "Why are you still single at 47?!"
I tell her, "Mom. There just isn't any adequate women for me!"
She says," You're 5'7", 200 lbs, with enough hair on your head. What's the issue!"
I say,"Mom. There isn't any 5' 10" blond haired, 25 year old, MDs with PhD in Particle Physics, with big tits, who love giving blow jobs on the first date, and great legs out there! Women are so pathetic these days!!"
My mother agrees with me!
I'm also an IT hiring manager BTW.
CS is not IT and stuff like subnetting is tech / trades school
So are US workers incapable of or unwilling to make those same choices?
An excellent question indeed.
Yes, the US workers are capable but unwilling to make those same choices, for several reasons.
First, the H1B worker knows exactly what he is dealing with. Three years working as a slave, and then I'm RICH!1! back in India or wherever. I can live for three, or even six years like that if I know that this is a voluntary and temporary issue. I also know what I'm buying - I'm selling my comfort and buying future comfort in much larger quantity. If I don't want this anymore I can quit at any time, and the DHS will not forbid me to leave the USA.
Second, H1B workers are required to work or to get out of the country. They cannot linger here and live on social assistance. But US citizens *are* eligible for all kinds of social assistance. At some point it is more profitable to collect welfare instead of working. I knew a guy around here who was on welfare. I found a temp job for him, with a good possibility of going full time. He refused! He said that social security money is more dependable.
This means that the very existence of payments (food stamps, money, living, etc.) to able-bodied workers washes them out of the market of jobs that pay less than that entitlement. Actually, the value of the payments is higher than that. You get money for nothing - you don't have to expend your labor; this means that you get the payments + the cost of your labor as you price it internally. The employer has to beat that number!
The employer is also burdened with minimum wages. This measure subverts the free market of labor. I am forbidden by law to sell my labor, whatever cheap it might be in terms of its value, for less than $7.25 per hour. Doesn't matter if I am suffering from some malady or the other and only can work at 20% of efficiency of a healthy worker. Who will hire me? But in a fair labor market I would be hired for the appropriate salary, and it would be fair to everyone involved. Same would happen to a secretary who works from home and answers five calls per day. Are you willing to pay her $1,160 per month for such a hard work? If no, would you pay her $100/mo? It's a good thing to have a human secretary who can deal with callers in a reasonable way, even if your company is very small.
I'm sure there are more reasons to do what people do. I didn't even mention keeping up with the Joneses, but that is an important factor as well.
so let me get this straight: because the US companies learned they can hire for cheap and get 'affordable slaves', those of us who have lived here all our lives, paid into the tax base and have a STAKE in what this country is going to become, we're supposed to LOWER our living standard, now?
as companies' profits soar to record highs, why in hell are the US workers supposed to take cut after cut and live closer to poverty?
that's bullshit, man! we all know it. we know the game.
'race to the bottom' is true.
I just wait for when some whacko loses it and starts going postal toward his CEO. I wonder if they'll learn, then, what they have done to our middle class?
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
What's the best way to find a job in the US as an Australian Citizen and using the E-3 visa?
The E-3 visa is like H1-B but better and has a seperate 10.5k cap and is only available to Australian Citizens.
I find many employers don't know what an E-3 visa is (as they only do H1-B) and don't bother, nevermind the fact that getting an Aussie on E-3 visa is much easier and cheaper (its free, in fact) compared to the hassle of H1-B...
Any tips, information, etc, would be greatly appreciated.
You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.
I have been in your boat my friend and this is not an attempt at a flamebait.
I accepted near poverty wages as no one would talk to me when I demanded $20 an hour! Then I lowered to $18/hr. Got 1 interview. Lowered it to $15/hr got 6 interviews! Then putting my head to shame I went as low as $13/hr. Bang! Got hired!
You are not worth $70,000 a year. If you were you would not have typed this and would be working right? So you went to school and had no jump? Welcome to the fucking real world my friend where 40% do not get jobs in their field.
So work 2 jobs. Go wait tables? Go sell shit at Best Buy when you are not making $13 an hour. Money with degrees only make $13/hr or $26,000 a year starting out?! No you did not misread that. Sorry buddy but, without experience no one is going to talk to you.
Go work, get your references, join a temp agency so you can maximize the amount of references you obtain so you can make that $70,000 some day. My brother makes $130,000 a year and has an MBA. How much did he make as a young kid fresh out of school at the same company? Only $50,000 as a systems analysis excel jockey. He had to earn that.
Whining about Indians and H1b1s folks will not change the situation. You have to be worth that $70,000 in an ROI and out of school you wont get that. It takes years. Sorry slashdotters but that is the hard truth and why the corps are really whining about qualified workers. Not wages, but for $70,000 a year you should as hell have many years experience.
So get to work gaining them. Other slashdotters reading this who make $70,0000 will repeat what I am saying.
http://saveie6.com/
We don't need any more foreign nationals for any reason, including H-1B. We have too many people out of work, and the conditions which prevailed in this country when we needed immigrants no longer exist. Potential immigrants need to focus on solving the problems in their own country, including unemployment, and quit trying to migrate to a fairy tail kingdom where all their problems will be solved.
just lies. There's plenty of Qualified Americans. I can't compete with India. They come here alone, work, and can support their whole family by sending a fraction of their wages back. Meanwhile my kid's school cloths will run $600+ this year and that's if I send her to Walmart and have her pick out the cheap stuff. Triple that if I shop somewhere she wont' get bullied for.
As for qualified Americans, I've seen what the H1-Bs do. They're ever loving code monkeys. You will never, ever, ever trick me into believing there's a shortage of VB programmers. What you've got a shortage of is people you can abuse that can take the abuse and bang out your crap.
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And so are you. And so is EVERY American. Stop thinking that way. When you do, they win. They being the 1%.
br> You're worth a decent wage. You're entitle to food, shelter and Health care. You EARNED a good life just by being BORN. Pull you're head out of your rear and stop beating up on yourself just because your daddy wasn't board rich. Bill Gates, Mark Zuck, Dick Cheney. Every last one had wealthy parents and connections. Not a damn one of them got anywhere near a boot strap. Lies, all lies.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/