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Zuckerberg Lobbies For More Liberal Immigration Policies
An anonymous reader writes "Mark Zuckerberg, along with other notables such as Google's Eric Schmidt, Yahoo's Marissa Mayer and Reid Hoffman, co-founder of Linkedin, has launched a new immigration reform lobbying group called FWD.us. In an editorial in the Washington Post, Zuckerberg claims that immigrants are the key to a future knowledge-based economy in a United States which currently has 'a strange immigration policy for a nation of immigrants.' As expected, they are calling for more of the controversial H-1B visas which reached their maximum limit in less than a week this year, but those aren't the only things they're looking to change."
Facebook's Wealth Demands unlimited slaves?
Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
Perhaps Zuckerberg could explain what the indienous population of the US is not capable of knowing that immigrants know. If this is the "key to a future knowledge-based economy", what is it I cannot know as a US citizen that you need, Mr Zuckerberg?
We should learn what we need to know about issues, before we decide what we need to feel about them.
Immigrants are great, but only so long as they have the same rights as the guy that wants to import/exploit them.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I guess they've given up on the American education system when making this statement: "Immigrants are the future of a knowledge based society"
Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
Let's see how successful the biggest industry is at getting the laws they want implemented in government.
what's the usual opinion then on the street? "we don't want european immigrants" ? yet the border is flowing with manual labor immigrants? why is it so easy to be an illegal alien but hard to be a tax paying legal alien?
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Wouldn't it make more sense for Zuckerberg to lobby the US government to restrict the amount of H1B visas going to overseas outsourcing firms? Because if they just raise the limit these overseas outsourcing firms will just gobble up more H1B visas and Zuck and company won't be better off for it.
My sister-in-law has been living in the United States for the past six years. She has a pair of masters in Mathematics and Economics and after graduation 2 years ago a good job, making about 50k a year. Yet she stands a decent chance of deportation because she is now in a lotto for the H1B. Why exactly are we kicking out people with masters degrees and good jobs?
This is insanity. She had a good portion of her schooling supplemented by the US Government. She is now paying taxes and is a law-abiding citizen. So they kick her out. Insanity.
How about we start by giving every masters' degree candidate an H1B and go from there? Rather than the inane 20000 then 65000 pool that exists today. Utterly inane.
Hoist Number One and Number Six.
"Mark Zuckerberg Lobbies for Cheaper Programmers Who Can't Quit"
I am officially gone from
It would be nice if these companies would be putting this time and effort into pushing for / funding more S.T.E.M. education in the US.
mnewberg.com
Zuckerberg didn't start his own company, he graduated college and got a job as a software developer.
Zuckerberg PU: "Corporations lobbying the government to import cheap labor from the third world is unethical. It amounts to indentured servitude and it does nothing but lower wages for the local workforce. It is but a scheme to let the rich grow richer and reduce the middle class to menial labor serfs."
If you're really pro-immigrant, then you would want them coming here as free men and women, not as indentured servants. These immigrants aren't being offered a leg up, they're being used and exploited.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
If these people are truly needed in the United States, then get rid of H1B indentured servitude. H1Bs may only work for the company that brings them here and that company is free to threaten them - "we'll send you back" type stuff.
If they are really needed as much as they are portrayed (I honestly have no idea), then let them have a green card so that they can go to other businesses within the border.
If that happened, then their prices would come up and - gasp - they'd no longer be needed.
No doubt Zuckerberg wants more slave labor to pay the tax base that he and his corp. are evading. I have a better idea Mark, move your ass and everyone else to an impoverished nation. No doubt you'll enjoy the infrastructure, benefits, gov't, and protection that all affords you.
Don't forget yer free phone, healthcare, and EBT cards.
Now everyone else please stay out.
This has nothing to do with folks who want to move to the US because: they want religious freedom or to escape tyranny or because they want to live in the Western Hemisphere for health reasons.
You see, this is about exploitation., for one. And this is also about labor market manipulation. Increase supply of workers while demand stays the same and what happens?
As has been said many times, the wages of developers and other IT professionals do not indicate a shortage of any kind. Wages haven't gone anywhere in over ten years and if you factor in inflation, they have gone DOWN.
If any employer is having a hard time finding qualified people, then there is something horribly dysfunctional in their recruiting process. Either they are not getting the word out to attract the right candidates or they are unrealistic in regards to the qualifications or salaries for said qualifications that they demand - hence the market manipulation with H1-Bs and immigration reform.
If they were trying to get a Ph.D in some esoteric CS field that very few people study, then I would possibly buy into that maybe they need a foreign born worker.
But for a developer? Please, spare me.
And the funny thing is, the biggest noise makers are folks out in Silicon Valley. Hello! Lockheed just canned a bunch of folks - very talented and qualified folks - who are looking for work. Folks that have worked on things that make your pathetic little "social networking" software look like child's play - so don't BS us with the "they don't have the skills"!
Have you thought of moving out of the high tax state of California and move to the low cost South? There are folks here just as smart as you folks who can make a nice living on $70,000 doing whatever you need.
God! You people kill me!
Choice quotes from a recent article on H1B visas I read over at Cringley...
"There is a misconception about the H-1B program that it was designed to allow companies to import workers with unique talents. There has long been a visa program for exactly that purpose. The O (for outstanding) visa program is for importing geniuses and nothing else. Interestingly enough, the O visa program has no quotas. So when Bill Gates complained about not being able to import enough top technical people for Microsoft, he wasn’t talking about geniuses, just normal coders."
and on later......
"Last year, nearly half of the H-1B visas went to companies like Infosys and Wipro, not marquee companies like Google and Microsoft. Companies such as Infosys are the workhorses of Silicon Valley, large IT firms that churn out the industry’s unglamorous connective tissue: things like boilerplate coding, user support, and network maintenance.
So, why does the US need to import labor for this lower-skilled work? Matloff says it has to do with wages and immobility. He argues that since employers sponsor H-1Bs visas, foreigners have a limited ability to negotiate higher salaries or switch jobs. If they do manage to change employers, it means they must restart any green card applications. Matloff says these realities “handcuff” H-1B visa holders to their employers. "
and further on...
"There are a number of common misunderstandings about the H-1B program, the first of which is its size. H-1B quotas are set by Congress and vary from 65,000 to 190,000 per year. While that would seem to limit the impact of the program on a nation of 300+ million, H-1B is way bigger than you think because each visa lasts for three years and can be extended for another three years after that.
At any moment, then, there are about 700,000 H-1B visa holders working in the USA.
Most of these H-1B visa holders work in Information Technology (IT) and most of those come from India. There are about 500,000 IT workers in the USA holding H-1B visas. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, there are about 2.5 million IT workers in America. So approximately 20 percent of the domestic IT workforce isn’t domestic at all, but imported on H-1B visas."
Provided they're legally and actually immigrating, and not just stopping by temporarily to make a quick buck. Our enconomy is already hurting and unemployment is high, we don't need leeches stopping in to steal our jobs then running off to spend the money elsewhere.
My 0.02.
There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
I consider H1-B's to be very problematic because of how dependent they make someone on an employer. I think there's a real risk of the employer employee relationship becoming too coercive and akin to slavery.
But, I have no problem with more immigration if the result is full citizens with the same rights as everybody else.
Perhaps we should have an accelerated citizenship process for people who've been here on an H1-B visa for over a year. That, in combination with actually reducing the number of H1-B visas granted would be something I could get behind.
The main negative effect I see from my proposal is that it reduces these large corporations incentive to improve the educational and vocational rehabilitation system to create the workers they need from our existing citizenry.
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
Train/Recruit American Infotech Novices -- Underutilized & Starving for work.
Koans and fables for the software engineer
The corporate weasels who are pushing this just want to be able to pay their workers less so they can get bigger bonuses at the end of the year. This is bad for the economy and bad for workers.
H1-B's are the personnel equivalent of pirated software. I can't get Microsoft Office for my PC (because I don't want to pay the prevailing price) - so let me bring in Microsoft Office copies from China (pirate copies of course). Odd that companies don't seem to be pushing for liberalizing copywrite and patent laws, which would have a much more beneficial affect on (my) economy.What's good for the goose should be good for the gander.
If job candidates are SOOOO hard to find, then the law should require corporations to pay a tax equivalent to 30% of the H1-B candite's salary - to be used to fund unemployment. This would have the effect of making the H1-B process work as intended - by making H1-B candidates less economical than local talent, they would be hired only when local talent can't be found. After all the stated objective of the law is to obtain locally un-obtainable talent - not to drive down wages.
The SOLE reason arseholes like Zuckerberk want to relax immigration controls is to keep wages low.
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
to India/Asia? You get all the workers you want locally.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
But companies should have to pay a $50,000 annual fee for each one they obtain.
International undergrad students tend to pay themselves. Grad students, especially in tech, tend to have grad school grants. Until recently they expected to go home first before reapplying for jobs. Or hope to find an employer that would pay the $30K or so for bypass paperwork. But recently a small number of visas are for immediate graduates. Tech companies want any such limit removed.
You have some incorrect information here.
International students indeed pay themselves. They always pay out-of-state rate and cannot qualify for state resident status no matter how many years they lived there. Some have grants or scholarships or TA/GA positions in grad school, just like any other grad student.
Some students come here on J-1 visas and they are required to go back home for certain time before coming back.
Most students come on a regular F-1 visa. They are not required to go back to be able to change their status.
Not entirely sure about J-1 students, but F-1 students are not allowed to work outside of campus. They are allowed to work on campus for 20 hours per week. Usually it is a minimum wage job.
All of the foreign students get about year and half of OPT (Optional Practical Training), which basically allows them to work to gain some experience.After OPT, J-1 students go home and F-1 students try to get a job and H1-B visa to continue working. H1-B is issued for 2-3 years and can be renewed up to maximum of 6 years. Before H1-B expires, students (now workers) try to apply for Green Card. It is a lengthy process - could be several years. None of the experience gained on the current job can be used to justify Green Card application.
Paul Ryan
The current 2.2% SWE unemployment figure
Does not include anybody who has switched to waiting tables because they have to make ends meet. Of course most of those people will never get another SWE job because of the prejudice that says anybody who has been out of the field for a year or two must not be any good. Hellooo! Have any of the hiring geniuses who take this attitude been out in the job market lately? I've known lots of very good people who were out of work for that long. This is about perceptions and prejudice, not quality.
Sure, I'd have no problem hiring them away from another company if they want to leave, but that does zero to solve the resource shortage.
Yes, it does. It's based on a principle called a "market". The idea is that if a "resource" (formerly known as skilled people) is in short supply, then the price will rise. Hence more people will enter that market, and the "shortage" will disappear. I know it's a radical idea, but it just might work.
Please note that this response is not always instantaneous, particularly when dealing with a "resource" that may require years of education. Unfortunately many of our tech "leaders" have tantrums when they don't get what they want immediately. They figure that since they can fire as many people as they want at a moment's notice, they should be able to hire as many people with specialized skills as they want at a moment's notice. If this is not possible they suddenly turn socialist and ask the government for help. Once satisfied by the government's largesse, they immediately revert to being capitalists.
An interesting history lesson: at one time many tech and business leaders seem to have more emotional maturity than a five year old, and were less prone to throwing tantrums. Old fashioned folks opine that this was because they were taught by a mommy government that didn't immediately give in to every demand. Many of these leaders learned to fend for themselves more, just like grownups! For example, knowing that large numbers of highly skilled people couldn't be hired at a moment's notice, they would retain many of the skilled people they had hired, even when business wasn't great. In the short term this reduced their company's profits, but like mature people they were willing to make that sacrifice for the delayed gratification of having those people available when business improved. For example, IBM instituted a no layoffs policy in the midst of the Great Depression. Note to younger readers: as hard as it may be to believe, this is actual history, not a fairy tale.
International students indeed pay themselves. They always pay out-of-state rate and cannot qualify for state resident status no matter how many years they lived there.
You have some incorrect information here. When I went to grad school, any grad student who was getting stipend money was considered in-state for tuition costs. The thought was, we're paying them a stipend so they can live while going to school, and if we charge them out of state rates we'll just have to increase the stipend so they can live. It's foolish to charge a higher tuition rate and then just hand them more money to cover it. That may have changed, but it does cancel the claim "they always".
That basically confirms what I've been saying repeatedly on Slashdot. Most of those who complain about H-1B advocates who say there isn't enough talent are in theoretical fields like CS. They have very little to no practical experience.
The typical response I get from them is "yeah well if they simply hired me and let me read some books for a few months then I'll be fine." Wrong answer. Employers want people who already have hands on experience with real equipment. Trade schools are great for that. Your problem is that you believe trade schools are below your intellect, and that going tens of thousands in debt for a university education for a career field that nobody is looking to hire for is such a great idea. Then you believe that the employer is wrong for not wanting to hire you because you don't already know what he needs the job candidate to know.
It's no wonder they favor the immigrants who are more willing to work for the employer rather than the other way around. Before you mod me troll, go look at my comment history and you'll find lots of replies from people saying they "ought to be able to" do exactly what I'm saying they shouldn't do as if it's their right and the employer should have no say in the matter..
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