From 'Quantified Self' To 'Quantified Car'

waderoush writes "A San Francisco startup called Automatic Labs came out of stealth mode in March, offering a Bluetooth gadget that connects to your car's onboard data port and sends engine performance data to an app on your smartphone (iPhone only right now, Android coming this fall). Xconomy went on a test drive with Automatic's chief product officer and captured video of the system in action. The app chirps at you when it notices rough braking, aggressive acceleration, or speeding over 70 mph. It also keeps a record of your fuel economy and gives you a gamified 'driving score' to encourage more efficient driving habits and fuel savings. It's all a sign that that the ethic of ubiquitous mobile/cloud sensing and analytics that 'quantified selfers' are applying to their personal health and fitness is spilling over to neighboring areas of consumer technology, including transportation. The Automatic Link device costs $70 and will begin shipping in May." Along similar lines, the Kiwi Drive Green has been available for several years.

Comments

How long before somebody subverts it?

[Suferick]

I can't think of any way that an attacker would use this for nefarious purposes

Re:How long before somebody subverts it?

[gl4ss]

I can't think of any way that an attacker would use this for nefarious purposes

obd dongles have been sold for a long time now.
even bluetooth one's for about a decade now.

reading the summary you would think that they invented the hw and not the beeping.

Re:How long before somebody subverts it?

[Marxist Hacker 42]

How is this any different than the video game my Prius already displays on screen to distract me while I'm driving?

Re: How long before somebody subverts it?

[iamhassi]

This costs $70 more

Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[geekd]

"The app chirps at you when it notices rough braking, aggressive acceleration, or speeding over 70 mph."

I do that all the time. I like to do that. That's why I bought a sports car. Why would I want an app to chirp at me when I do that?

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[Anonymous Coward]

I get annoyed enough at the "beep beep beep" from the traction control.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[ByOhTek]

umm... don't get one?

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[GameboyRMH]

Why haven't you disabled your traction control?

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[Bob the Super Hamste]

Mine is just a blinky light on the dash that tells me the car is trying to do something it would rather I didn't. Seriously don't throttle down the engine I want to slide around this corner, or throttle down and brake the wheels when I want to spin the tires until I hit dry pavement under this snow on a hill so I can get going. The only time it seems to do something useful for me is on really slick snow or ice covered roads, and even then the traction control on my car seem fairly incompetent. On dry pavement I can out drive it, yes I do have a SCCA solo license and that is fun as hell, I don't want the car telling me what it thinks I want it to do.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because you're an ass and we'd all appreciate it if you stopped.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[Bearhouse]

So you can feel *extra* dirty?

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[arlo5724]

Not to sound like a total douche but I try to drive as efficiently as possible. At first it was a personal finance issue since I noticed that driving efficiently saved me considerably over the course of a year. Now that I make decent money it's less about that and more that I don't have any particular reason to be wasteful. And since I'm not trying to impress anyone out there and not driving 500 miles a day, frankly I'd rather give as little money to oil companies and car makers as is humanly possible. If the app was on Android I would probably have already pre-ordered one...

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[OhPlz]

I can easily imagine auto insurers requesting that their insured install one of these. It could report the driving offenses right to the insurer's smartphone app. Of course it'd be disguised as a "discount program for safe drivers". One of them already has something similar using a dash cam.

Of course, that would foster the creation of an emulator that sends info to that app describing you as being a perfect driver. As an added bonus, it could fake out the emissions data for states that use the onboard diagnostics instead of a tailpipe sniff test for emissions testing.

Ahh, technology.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to sound like a total douche but

Too late.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[HornWumpus]

Admins, please change the GPs signon to 'total douche'

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[h4rr4r]

So buy an electric car and be done with it.

Go get a cheap bluetooth OBD2 adaptor, if it costs more than $15 shipped, it it too much. Then buy Torque for Android for $5.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[OhPlz]

Why would you buy this if you're trying to be green? If you're already driving efficiently, you don't need it. You'd be wasting the energy and raw materials required to construct and ship the device to you.

The only use I can see for this is for the hyper-mile-tards to put their score in their forum sigs and for insurers to penalize folks for either not having one or for setting it off repeatedly.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[CanHasDIY]

Not to sound like a total douche but I try to drive as efficiently as possible.

That's not being a douche; hell, it's commendable.

Being a douche would be more along the lines of "I try to drive as efficiently as possible, and there needs to be a law that forces everyone else to drive the way I do."

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[LordLimecat]

Im going to guess you probably arent the target demographic of this device.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[Charliemopps]

I think it'll be about 5yrs before every insurance company on the planet makes this mandatory. Which is this company true target market.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course it'd be disguised as a "discount program for safe drivers"

Or, as safe drivers would say, "a means to stop subsidizing bad drivers' car insurance policies"

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[bored_engineer]

Do you mean something like this?

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[OhPlz]

Yea, that's the one I was thinking of.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[geekd]

I'm not "trying to impress anyone out there", I'm just trying not to die of boredom on my daily commute. A full-throttle acceleration from a stop light (when the way is clear and it's safe to do so) every now and then can really put a smile on my face.

I hear people say things about people with sports cars - "he's got small penis" or "he's showing off", but I'm just having fun. I'm having fun *for myself*. I've got no one to show off for - I'm married 17 years now.

This app is not for me.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[OhPlz]

Of course it'd be disguised as a "discount program for safe drivers"

Or, as safe drivers would say, "a means to stop subsidizing bad drivers' car insurance policies"

You're assuming that someone is actually an unsafe driver is they set off this stupid gizmo. I might have to accelerate quickly to merge onto a busy highway. There are plenty of old on-ramps in my area that should be longer than they actually are. That doesn't make me an unsafe driver, all it means is that I use those particular on-ramps. Now consider drivers that have this tattler installed. They'd stop on the on-ramp to wait for a long gap in traffic so they don't get ratted out. That's actually far less safe because now they're likely to be rear-ended. It's the stupid red light cameras all over again. People panic brake at those lights to avoid a ticket and end up causing accidents.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[spyke252]

Bad driving isn't simply "speeding over 70mph" (aren't some highways over that speed limit anyway?), it's an amalgamation of not paying attention, not planning ahead, and not conforming to how everyone else is driving (to an extent). The problem you pose isn't solved in any way by this technology, and it gives more "bad driver" false positives than correct predictions.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[sl4shd0rk]

I do that all the time. I like to do that. That's why I bought a sports car. Why would I want an app to chirp at me when I do that?

you don't. The rest of us getting "buzzed" by you do.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're assuming that someone is actually an unsafe driver is they set off this stupid gizmo. I might have to accelerate quickly to merge onto a busy highway. There are plenty of old on-ramps in my area that should be longer than they actually are.

By virtue of the fact that you are driving on bad roads, you are increasing your risk of an accident. That's plain reality. Do you want us to sit here an say "there, there, it's not your fault. It's simply unfair that your on-ramps are short"? It doesn't change the fact that you are more expensive to insure.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[OhPlz]

That's already factored in. Why do you think insurance policies vary by region? I'm not a fan of being billed twice for the same thing. In that example, the road is as unsafe for me as it would be for any other driver. That's not a reason to penalize an individual.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[Nikker]

That is pretty much what it is. They only went the exta mile and set up thresholds which beep.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[BitZtream]

And you've just illustrated the common problem ... you think that the TCO of an electric car is less from an environmental perspective than it is for a good old gas guzzler.

If you do the same thing with gas guzzlers ... they produce 0 emissions too at runtime, and far far less during production!

If you're going to ignore where the energy comes from in an electric car, why not ignore it in a hydrocarbon powered one? Why ignore production costs? Do you have any idea what is required to make the electronics and batteries in these cars? Trading gasoline burning for coal is really fucking stupid from an environmental perspective.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[Anonymous Coward]

The point I was hoping the GP was going to make (but failed to do) was that the in-dash camera/tracking systems for safe driving discounts do not take the skill of the driver into consideration - only the driving environment.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[geekoid]

The nerve of someone creating a product that doesn't apply to you!

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[BasilBrush]

Why would you buy this if you're trying to be green?

Because it's hard to optimise without a profiling tool.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[KingMotley]

The "chirping" sound will be programmable. I'll change mine to a cheering crowd.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[BasilBrush]

I hear people say things about people with sports cars - "he's got small penis" or "he's showing off", but I'm just having fun.

Well, if you've got a small penis, you've got to get your jollies where you can.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[h4rr4r]

I am not ignoring anything. Coal is cleaner than Gasoline. Coal power plants are far more efficient. They have the advantage of not having to be light. Also power in my area is Nuclear and Hydro.

Production costs are comparable. A Tesla costs as much as an S series.

You are highly misinformed.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[postbigbang]

It's got nothing to do with penis size.

This thing is like having your mother in the front seat again, years later.

With all due respect to my mother, not gonna happen. This device is doomed like wet bacon.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[lister king of smeg]

Yes I drive one of those most every day on my way home with a speed limit of 75 mph for regular traffic and 65 for large trucks, to pass the trucks you end up going about 80 so I would find this app highly irritating. Hell I drive on a highway with a speed limit of 80 every so often when I am visiting relatives a few states over, as for rough breaking if I am breaking roughly there is usually a reason like the jack@55 that decides slam on his break with no warning ahead of me or when an elk/deer run out on the road. Not a time when you need another distraction.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[Marxist Hacker 42]

I've noticed this on my prius even. Hit a pebble, the blinky slidely light goes off.....

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[BasilBrush]

Just because you don't want it doesn't mean it's doomed. Others have been doing it for years. My Garmin SatNav does it.

Not everyone is quite so infantile with their driving as those that are complaining. People who have got past the boy racer stage are happy to drive in an economic, environmentally sound and legal fashion. And some quite like a device that helps them do that.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[OhPlz]

That's the odometer. The other piece of test gear is the number-of-gallons display on the fuel pump at the gas station. This gadget is just reading the onboard diagnostics and guessing at whether or not the readings indicate inefficient driving. I suppose they could read off the VIN and use that to load a set of analyzers that have been tweaked for each model, but imagine the pain that would be to implement.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's already factored in.

Then why are you whining about it? Unless you are worried that other drivers will traverse the same roads without being flagged as a bad driver...

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[postbigbang]

Those that have this sense of responsiblity are likely to have availed themselves of suitable gear to conserve, or even hypermile.

Your lockstep fashionability, however, is gruesomely described. I believe in the environment and have made suitable purchases to accommodate my beliefs. Having my mother in the bluetooth does zilch for me. Legal? Ohhhhhhhhhh suuuuuuuuuuuuuure. I'll do the speed limit. Of course! Give me a device that helps me do the speed limit!

It's called a speedometer.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[HornWumpus]

The guys at Top Gear should take one of those to a race track. let the Stig lose with it. See what kind of rate he gets.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course it'd be disguised as a "discount program for safe drivers"

Or, as safe drivers would say, "a means to stop subsidizing bad drivers' car insurance policies"

Fuck you, you sanctimonious prick.

I bet you drive slowly in the left lane while you are texting.

Take your holier-than-thou crap and shove it up your ass,
before I do it for you.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[semi-extrinsic]

On many cars there is a fuse which controls ABS, traction control, and other driver assists. I know on Volvo it's usually fuse 21. Just remove it when you want to slide around a corner, or better yet, wire a switch in front of it that you put on the dashboard. Preferably one that looks like the missile trigger on a fighter jet. And yes, it's perfectly safe to have a car without ABS provided you know how to pump brake.

Disclaimer: this probably voids your warranty and whatever, and if you do it, you must tell your insurance company that you do not have ABS and traction control, otherwise your insurance is pretty much worthless as well.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[semi-extrinsic]

The problem he is trying to point out is this one:
Let's say that we solve problem no. 1 for the environment: people stop buying new stuff when their old stuff still works. So you'll keep your car until repairing it would cost more than 30% of a new car.
Now, say I have 3-year-old efficient car, like a VW Polo BlueMotion, and assume my options are as follows:
1. Switch to an electric car
2. Keep the VW
How long does it take from today for Option 1 to have produced less total emissions (including manufacturing the electric car)? It comes out at around 7 years. As gasoline cars get more efficient, this quickly becomes >10 years. Now, what is the estimated life time of a battery pack for an electric car? That's right, about 10 years. What happens when the battery pack is dead? Buying a new battery pack costs more than the car is worth at that point, so you're going to buy a brand new electric car, that's what.
Extrapolating further: if gasoline car emissions are reduced by another 40% over the current VW Polo, and the Polo lasts for 20 years, you never pollute less by going for the electric car.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[semi-extrinsic]

Don't worry, it will only happen in the US, the rest of the world has government privacy watchdogs that usually earn their paycheck and protect the consumer.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[BasilBrush]

You're more then a decade out of date on the technology. ODB-II provides fuel metering.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[BasilBrush]

Those that have this sense of responsiblity are likely to have availed themselves of suitable gear to conserve, or even hypermile.

Suitable gear such as this product.

Your lockstep fashionability

Fashionability? What, my decades old interest in the environment, or my use of the distinctly unfashionable Garmin GPS? I'm afraid I left fashionability behind a long time ago. It's the boy racers who are trying to impress people.

It's called a speedometer.

If you're trying to sell the picture that you never absent mindedly speed, nobody with any driving experience is buying it.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[beelsebob]

A full-throttle acceleration from a stop light (when the way is clear and it's safe to do so) every now and then can really put a smile on my face.

And really put a downer on the day of the person who stepped into the road just before you did it, expecting you to act like a normal driver, who you didn't notice, because you were too busy concentrating on flooring it.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[postbigbang]

You use a lot of communications phrases that indicate empirical generalisms. "Nobody" as an example.

We're unlikely to agree on much in this world. It's because somewhere along the line, you didn't get the skepticism gene. Not sure how, don't have time to research it, but this isn't about boy racers at all-- although they seemed to have rattled you cage.

Enjoy your sense of legally executed and environmentally smug existence.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[Anonymous Coward]

No need for a law that forces everyone to drive economically, but there should be a mandatory part of drivers' education that teaches you the theory and gives you some practice driving economically. Actually, I think that should be part of regular (every ~10 years or so) health checks and, considering how ignorant people are about the rules regarding the right of way, a short theoretical exam.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[BasilBrush]

It's because somewhere along the line, you didn't get the skepticism gene.

You clearly haven't read many of my posts.

I don't wear tin foil hats though, so maybe that's your source of confusion.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[kermidge]

Yeah, that's the thing. Being able to get signals from the car is one thing, so long as I (some app, unless I want to try to recall how to program) can do with that data as I will, not someone locking me into some app author's idea of what I'm supposed to be doing.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[Anonymous Coward]

So does my foot. I've noticed that when I press down with my right foot while driving, my vehicle tends to consume more.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[lsatenstein]

I'm not "trying to impress anyone out there", I'm just trying not to die of boredom on my daily commute. A full-throttle acceleration from a stop light (when the way is clear and it's safe to do so) every now and then can really put a smile on my face.

I hear people say things about people with sports cars - "he's got small penis" or "he's showing off", but I'm just having fun. I'm having fun *for myself*. I've got no one to show off for - I'm married 17 years now.

This app is not for me.

===
what separates the men from the boys is what they do with their costly toys. Accelerate from 0 to 65 in 5.3 seconds is one answer.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[Anonymous Coward]

2nd gen? Mine would do that too. In fact, there was a manhole cover I'd drive over every morning, and every morning it would trip the traction control. Snow was the worst, it would overreact and leave me nearly stuck in some of the worst places. I hear it's better on the 3rd gen Prius. I hopped over to the new hybrid Avalon and even with snow, I think I set it off once when braking on ice. Plus there's a kill switch. Way better.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you knock their shoes off, it's an extra 10 points.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Yep, 2nd gen. Don't know how this will react if I ever need to put chains on......

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" app?

[Phoghat]

"The app chirps at you when it notices rough braking, aggressive acceleration, or speeding over 70 mph."

I do that all the time. I like to do that. That's why I bought a sports car. Why would I want an app to chirp at me when I do that?

Hack the module to go "way to go !" instead of chirping

I'm disappointed

[NoNonAlphaCharsHere]

From the headline, I thought we were going to get a story about a car that instantaneously tunneled through walls, or could park in more than one garage at the same time, depending on how many garage doors you had open.

performance oriented version

[Anonymous Coward]

lets see one

Re:performance oriented version

[Bob the Super Hamste]

Here you go. Even records more useful data on what the hell the vehicle is doing.

Seriously you can get VC money for this?

[h4rr4r]

This is what you can get VC money for?

A $10 chinese ELM327 with bluetooth and some crappy software?

Where do I find he suckers? I meant investors, where do I find investors?

Re:Seriously you can get VC money for this?

[OptimalCynic]

I guess you don't read slashvertisements.

Re:Seriously you can get VC money for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Torque-APP-Bluetooth-CAN-OBD-ODB-OBD2-Auto-Scanner-Android-HTC-Motorola-Samsung-/370703149869?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item564fa12b2d

ODB2 to bluetooth to Android app. About $15. That's a hell of a markup. I suppose they've got to pay back all the VC they've been spending on hookers and coke.

black box

[Dorianny]

All this data come from car's on board computer. In case you didn't know. Your car is spying on you!

Re:black box

[Bob the Super Hamste]

Your car records even more data than what this little app is giving you. OBDII contains all sorts of useful information on what your vehicle is doing and how it is running. It only keeps it around in a rolling log for a short (don't know specifics) but things like error codes stick around until cleared.

Re:black box

[Dorianny]

I am not worried about performance data. What worries me is the 10 seconds of driver actions recorded and kept by government mandate.

Re:black box

[Bob the Super Hamste]

So it is 10 seconds and it is mostly used for accident investigations. As in were you actually on your brakes when you plowed into that car in front of you or your dumb ass was driving 20mph over the speed limit, lost control, and plowed into a tree. I don't see how 10 seconds of data being recorded is a bad thing as it's not like the government is mandating that all the data needs to be sent to them in real time every 10 seconds. I actually believe that they need to get a warrant to get access to that data as well so it isn't like they can just grab it at will.

Re:black box

[operagost]

USA Patriot Act "warrantless wiretap".

Re:black box

[Anonymous Coward]

In the normal course of driving, how is 10 seconds of data going to be a significant privacy invasion should some government agent actually manage to download it from your car without permission? That'll mostly be you parking your car, that is unless you have an accident and it is you crashing your car or your car being crashed into. If you get into an accident that isn't your fault wouldn't you want that data there to prove you aren't at fault, or is it the case you think it is likely you would be at fault in the case of an accident and you don't want incriminating evidence, if it is the latter then perhaps you shouldn't be driving.

Achievment Unlocked: Road Rage

[Anonymous Coward]

Drove 69 mph all the way home. Got high score.

Re:Achievment Unlocked: Road Rage

[CanHasDIY]

Drove 69 mph all the way home. Got high score.

You kid, but I wonder...

Would gamification of good driving techniques be an effective method of encouraging such practices? I.e., a camera on the front of the car recognizes street signs, and awards the driver with points/achievements if they properly obey them.

Re:Achievment Unlocked: Road Rage

[Anonymous Coward]

Or we could put cameras on the street signs and if you ignored them you would have a deduction from your personal bank of "points" that you earned from doing other activities in life.

Re:Achievment Unlocked: Road Rage

[geekoid]

Yes, and they are doing it with some cars now. On car has a tree that grows on the dash the better the mileage the bigger the tree.

I drove 68 all the way home..becasue one more and I would have ate it. badum...bash.

Re:Achievment Unlocked: Road Rage

[CanHasDIY]

Yes, and they are doing it with some cars now. On car has a tree that grows on the dash the better the mileage the bigger the tree.

I drove 68 all the way home..becasue one more and I would have ate it. badum...bash.

By "good driving," I meant safe and prudent, not necessarily more fuel efficient. Not that it's a bad thing.

Sounds like pylint

[Marcion]

R: Your route contained too many branches
C: Your car needs to be 4 exactly spaces from the sidewalk

Working on something just like it but better

[Bob the Super Hamste]

This sounds similar to something I am working on now. With an ODB2 to usb connector (these are like $5-$10 off of ebay) and Raspberry Pi. Toss in some software (there is open source OBD2 software) and a speaker and you basically have this system. As an added bonus you can attach other devices to the RPi and make it even more useful as an in car device. As for the price the whole setup I am working on comes in at less than the single connector they are selling. I do wonder what detailed data it is collecting as OBD2 can provide lots of realtime data on things like fuel air ratios, injector trims, engine speed, etc and it seems like this is only scratching the surface.

Re:Working on something just like it but better

[h4rr4r]

If you have a smartphone you can skip the raspberry pi. Torque does 99% of this already.

Re:Working on something just like it but better

[icebike]

Save your money, and buy a commercial version from Garmin.

http://www.gpscentral.ca/products/garmin/ecoroute-hd.html

It already has a boatload of features, and has been field tested for several years. You can even read your car's diagnostic codes. You don't even
need a gps to make this work, because there is a free android app for it. Its not the most advanced sensor out there, but it will help you catch those fleeting diagnostic codes your mechanic just can't seem to find.

Re:Working on something just like it but better

[Bob the Super Hamste]

Don't have a smartphone but have a couple Pis that I was looking for additional uses for instead of just an RTK GPS setup and ran across this on how to really make use of OBDII and an RPi. As an added bonus I could also have it log location data as well since I have that equipment already. I haven't made it to that project yet other than initial research as I am working on the RTK GPS setup so this expansion will have to wait a bit.

Re:Working on something just like it but better

[h4rr4r]

An old smartphone is what I was considering using. I have a couple D1s laying around collecting dust.

Those have GPS onboard as well. Plus a display that can be used to get that data out in a nice way to the user.

Re:Working on something just like it but better

[mspohr]

Torque for Android
I've used this:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torque&hl=en
$4.95 or Free for the "lite" version.

Re:Working on something just like it but better

[h4rr4r]

$90? What a ripoff.

Seriously a $10 ELM327 can do this job just fine. Even if you get the pay for version of Torque you just saved yourself $75.

Re:Working on something just like it but better

[icebike]

Sure, if all you want to do is read the codes.

Re:Working on something just like it but better

[h4rr4r]

No, it does everything that unit does.
It will give you all the data you car puts out over OBD2. This varies from model to model of car.

Paired with the $5 torque I do not see anything this garmin offers that I am missing. I have position, all the fancy gauges, everything.

Re:Working on something just like it but better

[YrWrstNtmr]

Um, I had a system like this a decade ago. Laptop instead of Pi, but still the same thing.
Still have it, still use it. With the same laptop.

Re:Working on something just like it but better

[Bob the Super Hamste]

I had seen those setups previously and that is why I wondered if it was possible on the Pi. I went with the Pi because I have 2 of them and when not doing RTK GPS stuff I could easily re-purpose one for this. I could probably have it doing GPS loggin and OBDII logging at the same time all from the same $35 device + the cost of the add on hardware.

Re:Working on something just like it but better

[Bob the Super Hamste]

That won't save any money. What is needed is a USB to OBDII cable with the converter in it, the ELM327 that everyone mentions is just fine. The fancy software and hardware from Garmin isn't necessary either. Here is the basic setup I am going for but not for a bike, still cheaper than the $90 Garmin device. Besides if all I cared about was the ability to read and clear codes I have an ODBII scan tool that I got years ago for $25 that works just fine for that.

Re:Working on something just like it but better

[Bob the Super Hamste]

The GPS I was going for was one that can give me carrier phase as well as raw pseudo range data for post processing and from what I can tell old cellphone gps receivers don't offer that, not to mention real PPS. As I have that equipment I figure why not use it for multiple things. If I had an old smart phone I would probably re-purpose it for this since I really hate to let something go to waste. I also have an electronic compass for the RPi and it is yet another thing I could wire up for an in car RPi. It's not like the 12v plug in the car can't put out enough power to run all those low draw electronics.

Re:Working on something just like it but better

[BitZtream]

Show me this $10 ELM327 that is more than just the chip.

Show me the one thats connector, chip, some sort of transmission medium to actually be useful, has a reasonable chance of not browning out during start because has power supply capacitors and such.

Stop pretending that your $10 COMPONENT is an actual product.

Yes, ELM327 chips are dirt as cheap. No, they are not useful in any way by themselves.

Re:Working on something just like it but better

[BitZtream]

You can probably download this type of app from mp3car.com's app store, and its probably been there for years already as well.

Sadly, the carputers are probably still no more advanced than what you built a decade ago.

Carputers are like snails when it comes to progress. WTF can you not buy a reasonably priced sunlight readable capacitive touch display?

Re:Working on something just like it but better

[gl4ss]

http://www.e-ville.com/fi/16-obd-skannerit/3178-obd-elm327-vikakoodinlukija-bluetooth.html

you can buy one in Finland for 18 euros... pretty sure you could find it cheaper internationally(if not, that would be a first). next time use google, huh?
dx has a bunch for fifteen euros. that's pretty much in the ten bucks mental range, when compared to 90-100bucks products, with the torque license it ends up being around twenty bucks.

Re:Working on something just like it but better

[John.Banister]

Will your device tell me what "check engine" really means this time?

70 mph

[hierofalcon]

Hope that's programmable as the interstate speed limits in large portions of the country are 75 or 80.

Re:70 mph

[MarcoAtWork]

just because the speed limit is 80 it doesn't make it any more fuel efficient to go over 70...

Re:70 mph

[Anonymous Coward]

Having your head beaten in by an enraged hick isn't going to help your mileage.

Re:70 mph

[operagost]

It's more efficient to go 60 rather than 70. Or 50 instead of 60. Or 40 rather than 50...

70 is arbitrary.

Re:70 mph

[HornWumpus]

Your time is free? Sucks to be you.

Hmm..

[Saethan]

Going to send this to a friend of mine - he did something very similar but just for his own use on his cars.

Re:Hmm..

[Bob the Super Hamste]

Why? His solution probably cost less and could do more.

Re:Hmm..

[Saethan]

Exactly! That was more of a 'oh look, a way for my friend to make money.'

do it again!

[Thud457]

how about an app that says "oh yeah" in a breathless female voice with every extreme G maneuver ?

Re:do it again!

[CanHasDIY]

how about an app that says "oh yeah" in Kool-Aid Mans voice with every extreme G maneuver ?

FTFY.

OH YEA!

2 obvious slashverts in 2 days

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck Timothy.

Re:70 mph is dildos

[SpaceManFlip]

Right. I spent a couple of weeks in Oklahoma one time, and was happy to see the 75 MPH speed limit signs on some of their 2-lane highways. I was driving a Japanese sports-car with about 240HP, so it was cool to roll out across the rolling landscape there at 80+ MPH with no worries of tickets.

When you crest one of the rolling hills out there, you can often see the next town even if it's 20 miles away. The overall landscape is flat with lots of bumps to get upon and scout about.

perfect for parents

[KernelMuncher]

This nanny device could allow parents to spy on their kids driving habits. No more rally driving for them !

Re:perfect for parents

[frinkster]

This nanny device could allow parents to spy on their kids driving habits. No more rally driving for them !

Or they can buy a Ford, which can already do that for parents and more - like you can set it so the radio can't be turned on if the driver isn't wearing a seatbelt, or the low-fuel light comes on sooner because your kids are idiots, etc.

Re:perfect for parents

[h4rr4r]

Have you tried just sitting down with your kids, turning off the TV, and beating them?

Why in the world would you want a car you can't park and run the radio?

How is your kid gonna get laid in this nanny wagon?

Same old same old ....

[Anonymous Coward]

get one of these

Install this for free

Or get the pro version for $5.

does almost the same things for more than $50 less.

The rest is just common sense and marketing hype.

Then again, there are a lot of folks out there who need to spend money and have a "cool" app.....

Re:Same old same old ....

[mythosaz]

Yeah. I don't know WTF these people are smoking.

Bluetooth ODBII has been available for pocket-change for a while, so much so that there's dozens of phone apps for them already.

Torque Pro is awesome. I 3 it.

Re:Same old same old ....

[CdBee]

yeah, same here. Since I plugged a cheapo bluetooth unit (the blue clear one for people looking on eBay) into my Volvo V40 my fuel bills have dropped noticeably, and it gave me very early warning that the engine thermostat was failing, long before I'd have noticed it through an unsteady thermostat needle. I feel also that running the car in a less aggressive style for economy's sake will prolong the life of various components too that otherwise need to be bought and either fitted, or paying someone to fit...

Re:Same old same old ....

[h4rr4r]

For the first one, get the cheapest one you can find. Inside they are all the same, a cheap chinese ELM327 clone and a bluetooth transmitter.

Thaaaaaat's what I wanted.

[roc97007]

Something else chirping at me.

Or, alternately, I already have a wife who notices rough braking, aggressive acceleration, or speeding over 70 mph, and she is more than willing to chirp at me about it.

Great news for you!

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a system to help you find your investors, all I need is a modest investment from you, and we can get off the ground floor!

Re:Great news for you!

[h4rr4r]

No problem, I just need you to pay the processing fee on that investment and I can get you the money right away.

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" car?

[SpaceManFlip]

I concur. All the lame new cars with their nagging BS and recent trends like the "Let Your Insurance Company Monitor Your Driving Habits" modules..... People are too lame to see the potential for enjoying life.

If I get any new cars that have nag features or spy features, I will be rearranging the circuitry to disable them.

How is this different than Torque Pro

[schwit1]

Sounds like it does same thing.

http://kk.org/cooltools/archives/5845

Re:How is this different than Torque Pro

[Anonymous Coward]

Another alternative in works cartooth.com. I admire Torque , but besides showing the information it does not do much. Make the stream live and there is so much more that you can learn about your driving.

Why is this on Slashdot?

[David_Hart]

The are a number of Android apps and ODB Bluetooth adapters already on the market. You can use them view trouble codes,capture car diagnostics, etc. This isn't new or news...

I have a Garmin EcoRoute with Bluetooth which grabs ODB data and presents it as gauges to the Garmin GPS on my Kenwood head unit. I can also use it record trip/mileage information and view/reset diagnostic codes. It will even show me an efficiency graph over the trip. This is enough for me.

My concern about the gameified "driving score" is that it could lead to some people being more concerned about beating their top score than focusing on driving safely. We don't need more distracted drivers...

Re:Why is this on Slashdot?

[frinkster]

But this is a SAN FRANCISCO start up! They are going to collect all that data and sell it to advertisers! This is major automotive DISRUPTION you are witnessing!

Re:Why is this on Slashdot?

[geekoid]

Lets see:
It's an app.
It use electronic device.

It should be here. Just because it's not the first one is irrelevant.
" This is enough for me."
as it turns out,l you aren't the only person in the world.

You should probably think upon that a little bit.

Re:Why is this on Slashdot?

[BitZtream]

Thats like slashdot posting an article about dell releasing a new model. Nothing special about the model, just a new model.

Its not that its not the first one ... its that its been done HUNDREDS OF TIMES BEFORE and has NOTHING NEW TO ADD to the existing plethora of ways to do this already.

Do we want to read stories about how Dell just release a new laptop that is exactly like every other laptop?

Re:Why is this on Slashdot?

[David_Hart]

Lets see:
It's an app.
It use electronic device.

It should be here. Just because it's not the first one is irrelevant.

Really? Then explain to me why we don't we see articles about every iteration of email clients on mobile devices? By your reasoning they are apps and use an electronic device so they should be news on Slashdot. They just aren't new, news, or interesting and would turn Slashdot into a pure advertisement platform.

" This is enough for me."
as it turns out,l you aren't the only person in the world.

You should probably think upon that a little bit.

Oh, really... Just because you don't agree with me is no reason to get snide... I do happen to know that I am not the only one on earth and that everyone has different needs. But there are existing products. We don't need another slashvertisement to highlight yet another one.

Perhaps you are just in the wrong place, this is supposed to be NEWS for Nerds, not Advertisements R US.

Slashvertisement

[Hobadee]

How is this news? I got a ODB2 -> Bluetooth adapter last year, and that was after a year or two of thinking about it. I use Torque on my Android to track my mileage, chirp at me when I go over a speed I set, and track engine performance.

The only thing here that *might* be news is the gamification of ODB2 stats, but who really cares about that?

Oh, and my dad just picked up a ODB2 -> Bluetooth adapter for about $25 and it works great, so why would anyone want to spend $70 on one!?

Re:Slashvertisement

[h4rr4r]

You can find them for $10 these days. So the ripoff is even worse than you think.

Re:Slashvertisement

[Hobadee]

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt here. I've heard the $10 ones can be flaky and not always work well. That's why my dad splurged and got a $25 one. :-P

Already exists for way less

[tech.kyle]

I use a $10 bluetooth ELM327 adapter and the free version of Torque for Android. It doesn't do any of that chirp stuff, but it easily could with the right software. On top of that, access to ALL sensors and codes.

Not only that, the GPS in our trucks at work do exactly what this thing does.

It's not new, it's not even a good price.

Would be great, if linked to navigation software

[Bearhouse]

Screw the nanny bit, but this integrated with decent navigation software could be cool.
After a while, you could gain some useful insights into your regular trip; places where you often have to brake hard etc.
Imagine one dark, rainy evening, after working late, your GPS says "hey, you're going too fast for the next bend..."
Now THAT would be useful...

Come to think of it, you could do that without this device, methinks...

Re:Why would I want a "Nanny" car?

[i kan reed]

If you're going to that level of effort, why not rewire them to defraud your insurance company?

YMMV, literally ...

[perpenso]

just because the speed limit is 80 it doesn't make it any more fuel efficient to go over 70...

YMMV, literally. It sort of depends on your engine and transmission. My car's US EPA mileage rating for highway is 29mpg, presumably based on 55mph. I consistently get about 34mpg on the highway at 70mph. Measured by the on-board mpg display and confirmed via gas pump fuel dispensed and odometer. I haven't tried 75, but for all I know the sweet spot could be over 70, or under. Yeah, 80 sounds a bit too much but who knows. I guess I have an experiment for that next road trip to Vegas.

Re:YMMV, literally ...

[MarcoAtWork]

according to your 'sweet spot' theory maybe the sweet spot for me riding my bike would be 30mph (should take less energy to go 30mph than 20mph) oh, wait...

Your comparison to EPA is apples/oranges, just because you can get 34mpg at 70mph it does NOT mean that if you go 55mph you will get only 29mpg everything else being equal...

Re:YMMV, literally ...

[perpenso]

according to your 'sweet spot' theory maybe the sweet spot for me riding my bike would be 30mph (should take less energy to go 30mph than 20mph) oh, wait... Your comparison to EPA is apples/oranges, just because you can get 34mpg at 70mph it does NOT mean that if you go 55mph you will get only 29mpg everything else being equal...

In my haste I left out a little detail. I do in fact get around 29mpg at 55mph. I say "around" because I haven't measured things as carefully at this speed. My quick and dirty checks varied, a little under, a little over, so I just think in terms of the EPA rating which seems about right.

Sorry for the confusion but my mind seems more focused on the unexpected result than the expected result. In the past my cars did in fact get worse mileage at 70. The current car has a six speed manual transmission and in sixth gear at 55 the engine is just barely above idle. Not an optimal point. Whether the optimal point is closer to 70, 75 or 80 I don't know. I think my point stands, we shouldn't be so quick to dismiss speeds above 70. It depends entirely upon the engine and transmission.

Re:YMMV, literally ...

[coyote_oww]

I had a similar experience with a Mustang. Ran very well (and efficiently) at 2000 RPM, which was just under 80mph in 5th gear. Tended to lug a bit at lower speeds. I suspect a lot of sports cars have this, as the engine's most efficient speed * gear ratio determines most efficient road speed, and that math comes out well above 55 for cars with powerful engines.

Re:YMMV, literally ...

[geekoid]

No.
The faster you go, the worse your gas mileage. There is no magic sweet spot.
You are deluding yourself. They only way you could be more delude is if you tried selling a calculator app..oh, wait.

"presumably based on 55mph"
wrong. It's more complex then that, but hey, lets not let facts change your stupid conclusion.

Re:YMMV, literally ...

[geekoid]

" I say "around" because I haven't measured things as carefully at this speed"
so it's biased..hence worthless.

It sounds like you don't know how to use manual transmission properly.

Or, you know, you are lying.

Re:YMMV, literally ...

[justthinkit]

So, a truck in bull low, going 1 mph, gets the most gas mileage? There is indeed a sweet spot for every vehicle.

Re:YMMV, literally ...

[perpenso]

" I say "around" because I haven't measured things as carefully at this speed" so it's biased..hence worthless.

I say "around" because the 55 mph test was, in 6th gear manually maintain a speed about 55 and reset the mpg indicator. In about 30 sec its stabilized near 29, done. Repeat in 5th gear, mpg well below 29. Again, a quick check put me near 29 so I accepted the EPA rating. Whether the actual number was 28 or 30 I couldn't say and frankly don't really care.

However for the 70 mph test I set the cruise control at 70 and reset the mpg indicator. It stabilized around 34. I continued for 20 miles of flat terrain on cruise control. The indicator was still 34 at the end.

It sounds like you don't know how to use manual transmission properly.

6th gear is fine for 55 mph on flat terrain. The engine is not far above idle but it is not struggling. In 5th gear the rpm is too high, an upshift is warranted.

Re:YMMV, literally ...

[perpenso]

No. The faster you go, the worse your gas mileage.

And yet this particular car gets about 5 additional miles per gallon at 70 compared to 55 on a particular stretch of road, as reported by the factory mpg indicator and double checked at the gas pump.

There is no magic sweet spot.

Universally, no. But in a specific car, under specific conditions, one highway speed may be better than another highway speed. And that better highway speed is not necessarily 55 mph, it may be something higher.

The Monitored Life Is Worth Buying

[preaction]

"The unexamined life is not worth living", so I'm going to thoroughly examine every aspect of my own life! How much time can one really spend on things like this? I've tried keeping calorie counts every day, but now I just weigh myself every morning and approximate calories on every new meal I add to the repertoire. If I spend too much time trying to optimize everything in my life, what time do I have left to live it?

Re:The Monitored Life Is Worth Buying

[idontgno]

Did you examine your word count in that post? Or your spelling?

No, I didn't see any obvious errors. You even spelled "repertoire" correctly. But I'm just asking.

At some point, you have to examine whether you should be examining everything. I think you just started. Congratulations.

kill it. kill it now.

[Anonymous Coward]

subpoena.
subpoena by insurance companies.
mandatory in all new cars sold after {...}.

Dammit Judge!

[nanospook]

That is so self-incriminating!

No sign yet

[jamesl]

It's all a sign that that the ethic of ubiquitous mobile/cloud sensing and analytics that 'quantified selfers' are applying to their personal health and fitness is spilling over to neighboring areas of consumer technology, including transportation. The Automatic Link device costs $70 and will begin shipping in May.

It will only be a sign if people actually pay $70 for it. I'm sure that Xconomy will publish a follow-up piece next year.

anon so I can't be accused of bragging

[Anonymous Coward]

Volvo V40 my fuel bills have dropped noticeably, ... running the car in a less aggressive style for economy's sake

There's your problem right there.

I'm sure when I put a bluetooth OBD in the GT 500, that's just going to push me to drive for HIGH SCORE!, and MPH ain't gonna be high in any of the the metrics I'd be looking at.

But I'm schizophrenic and also have a Subabu that I'm shooting for the million mile club(tm). So that car I might drive like you'd drive your Volvo, Alan.

Nice generic name they came up with, too

[thewils]

Way to home in on your product in Google searches - "About 874,000,000 results (0.19 seconds)"

Next thing they're going to trademark the word "Automatic" I guess...

Slashvertisement

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice to see this Slashvertisement exposed as over-priced crap. /. won't be totally useless as long as it allows commenting on the horrible articles.

Already got one

[Experiment 626]

The app chirps at you when it notices rough braking, aggressive acceleration, or speeding over 70 mph.

So it's basically the same as having my wife in the car.

70?

[TheCarp]

Wow....no. Not. Never, will I allow anything in my car, app or human, that complains when I go over 70.

That is seriously how you get told to walk the rest of the way.

Re:70?

[geekoid]

And that seriously how i call the cops to report you as a reckless driver, possible armed.

Re:70?

[BitZtream]

Have you done that before? How long did they laugh at you before they hung up?

Re:70?

[Anonymous Coward]

Some parts of Nevada are as much as 186 miles between intersections.

At 90 miles an hour, that's more than 2 hours.

Mabe 70 seems impossibly fast in New York or California but it's not for us.

The number one cause of accidents is distracted drivers. The number one cause of distractions is cell phones. Over half of all accidents involve cell phones. Look it up.

Accident rate goes up dramatically with traffic density - not speed. Higher average speeds means lower trip times which means less accidents. People also pay attention more at higher speeds. This isn't theory, it's emperical. Most accidents happen at relatively low speeds, close to home when people are in their comfort zone - they don't pay attention.

Re:70?

[TheCarp]

> Mabe 70 seems impossibly fast in New York or California but it's not for us.

Not in most of NY, nor in MA, where the traffic hums along on most highways (even the ones marked 55) at
72-76 MPH... not during rush hour of course... but most other times.

> The number one cause of accidents is distracted drivers. The number one cause of distractions is cell phones.
> Over half of all accidents involve cell phones. Look it up.

Yet banning their use is verified to reduce that use, but has yet to be shown to decrease accidents. Also, drivers who get in accidents with cell phones, still get in more accidents without them. In fact, while most drivers slow down while using the cell phone and drive more cautiously.... the group of drivers that gets in accidents using them, drives faster and more recklessly.

> People also pay attention more at higher speeds. This isn't theory, it's emperical.

Same is true of rotaries,...they are even safer than similarly sized intersections. People seem to hate them though. I have a theory as to why...its because you HAVE to pay attention. Cars are weaving in and out in a pattern, and it works really well... but when it works it constantly looks like you are about to hit eachother, so it forces everyone to pay attention and...well... people hate it and think its dangerous.

I have lived most of my life on a main road right by one.... a significant portion of the accidents I have ever seen in it have been drunk drivers crashing into it in the middle of the night. Seen more accidents up the street from it than in it.

Law of unintended consequences

[Anonymous Coward]

"Avoiding rough braking and aggressive acceleration" translates to: coast to every obstacle, speed up slowly when traffic picks up.
-> Fewer cars fit in every red-light-to-red-light stretch, stop-sign-to-stop-sign stretch, and highway stop-and-go stretch.
-> More traffic congestion, longer commutes.
-> Less fuel efficiency overall, more pollution.

Remember: your car uses up a fraction of the total roadway capacity proportional to the integral over time of the distance from the rear bumper of the car in front of you to your rear bumper. Anything you do that increases this fraction makes traffic worse and increases pollution. So just drive: not aggressively, but not like a moron either.

And THEN....

[Anonymous Coward]

Then it will tell you what your new insurance rates are going to be.

That will be the result once insurance companies start to get this data. They are already trying to demand some of it. You need to absolutely refuse and hold out no matter how difficult it is., or find a way to fake it all.

Your car, your data. Don't give them a choice.

Slashvertisments

[BitZtream]

Really ... like this is a new concept?

There have been ODB-II apps for longer than there has been an app store. Before the app store, you had to hack your own adapter together and jailbreak. Since the app store we've gotten WiFi and Bluetooth ODB-II adapters with deep sleep modes and god knows how many apps that do a shitload more than this crap you are slashvertising.

You're only about 4-5 years late to noticing this app category. Without scrolling up to look, I bet timothy posted this story.

I don't know

[geekoid]

If I can trust a company that publishes for the smaller smart phone market first. Doesn't seem like they have real bright decision makers.

Progressive gave me one

[coyote_oww]

but demanded it back after 3 months. It was annoying, and i have real questions about the usefulness in predicting accident rates. It went off when i would back out of the driveway sometimes. My driveway is a bit steep, and if i had to stop while backing out the braking force would trip the device. It would go off sometimes for no reason i could figure.

Before i had the device, i was a pretty enthusiastic supporter of black boxes. This has dimmed my hopes substantially. :-(

Bluetooth 4.0 LE

[hashish16]

The only advantage this device has over other much much much cheaper variants is bluetooth low energy capabilities. Its also geared towards non-techies, so essentially not the slashdot crowd.

Re:Bluetooth 4.0 LE

[Anonymous Coward]

There also listing iPhone support which can only be done with the cheap $10-$20 dongles if you jailbreak your phone. An extra $50 to avoid jailbreaking and have software support isn't really that bad.

Speeding over 70?

[operagost]

In many states in the US, the speed limit is 70 or more. The device is already analyzing fuel economy, so this feature seems redundant. I'll assume that the article is misleading, and that this value is modifiable to help "lead footers". Fuel economy generally goes down with speed, but 70 MPH is rather arbitrary.

Inb4

[Anonymous Coward]

I want to see if I drive like I stole it, and how low of a score I can get for it. The lower, the better!

Things work in both ways, it's human nature to question variables. Say for instance: I want to see how many points I lose going from 140mph to 0 mph as quickly as possible. Lets try Billy!

This is the lube

[Roachie]

... that will help your insurance company to charge you per mile, for rolling thru that stop, for busting that speed limit.

Just the tip, thats how it starts.

Overpriced and overhyped

[Anonymous Coward]

The app is overpriced and it is not clear what useful function it carries. Couple of cheaper and more interesting alternatives are:
CarTooth: cartooth.com
Delhi: http://ces.cnet.com/8301-34438_1-57562354/delphi-and-verizon-partner-on-car-tracking-remote-unlocking/

Some roads 70 is the common speed and some paces h

[Anonymous Coward]

Some roads 70 is the common speed and some paces have higher limits.

More interesting alternatives

[aa24]

Check out cartooth.com Similar, but for $15 and runs on Android today

ELM327 and Torque Pro for over a year already

[mauriceh]

And only $15 for the ELM327 Bluetooth OBD and $4.99 for Torque Pro.
Works great.

All you need is Torque

[funkboy]

Torque is all the OBDII goodness I need, along with an ELM327 dongle from Amazon.

Oblig /.

[mdm42]

My car doesn't have a computer, you insensitive clod.