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Internet Explorer 0-day Attacks On US Nuke Workers Hit 9 Other Sites

SternisheFan writes with an excerpt from Ars Technica: "Attacks exploiting a previously unknown and currently unpatched vulnerability in Microsoft's Internet Explorer browser have spread to at least nine other websites, including those run by a big European company operating in the aerospace, defense, and security industries as well as non-profit groups and institutes, security researchers said. The revelation, from a blog post published Sunday by security firm AlienVault, means an attack campaign that surreptitiously installed malware on the computers of federal government workers involved in nuclear weapons research was broader and more ambitious than previously thought. Earlier reports identified only a website belonging to the US Department of Labor as redirecting to servers that exploited the zero-day remote-code vulnerability in IE version 8. ... 'The specific Department of Labor website that was compromised provides information on a compensation program for energy workers who were exposed to uranium,' CrowdStrike said. 'Likely targets of interest for this site include energy-related US government entities, energy companies, and possibly companies in the extractive sector. Based on the other compromised sites other targeted entities are likely to include those interested in labor, international health and political issues, as well as entities in the defense sector.'"

157 comments

  1. Wow by colinrichardday · · Score: 0, Troll

    Lousy programming from Microsoft, who could have known?

    1. Re:Wow by solkanar · · Score: 2

      Yea, the doctor could have known.

    2. Re:Wow by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      You know, it really helps a debate when every single point you make is followed by telling the readers they're idiots. It just drives home the fact that a smarter person wouldn't be reading your post.

    3. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Keep on burning coal then, cause that windmill will never make you enough energy.

    4. Re:Wow by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      Evidently people who work on nuclear weapons... so...

    5. Re:Wow by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      I mean, "Evidently NOT people who work on nuclear weapons." It would have been right, but my browser (IE 6) messed up posting. I'm embarrassed. Fortunately, it sounds like I won't have to live with my shame for very long.

    6. Re:Wow by colinrichardday · · Score: 3, Funny

      We don't blindly hate Microsoft; we've seen it all too much.

    7. Re:Wow by colinrichardday · · Score: 2

      Time travel has its advantages.

  2. Somebody in the government... by Kildjean · · Score: 2

    Just lost their job... The same idiot that insisted in "lets make all our content only available through IE"...

    --
    Nom de dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperie de connard d encule de ta mere.
    1. Re:Somebody in the government... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You clearly have never worked for the government. The bozos decisions will still have their jobs, but underling fall guys who recommended against it but had no choice but to do what they were told will become unemployed.

    2. Re:Somebody in the government... by Kildjean · · Score: 1

      I actually work for the government, they just dont listen to the think tanks that tell them, "Nooooooooooooooooooooooo! Dont do that" and they just go ahead and do it anyways.

      --
      Nom de dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperie de connard d encule de ta mere.
    3. Re:Somebody in the government... by rabbit994 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I want whatever you are smoking. No one will lose their job over this because A) It's a government worker B) MIcrosoft is like IBM in government, no one gets fired for picking it.

    4. Re:Somebody in the government... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      I used to work for the government, long enough to know that the most incompetent people are always promoted to management.

      The entire top 3 levels of management in a government agency has a lower IQ than a small salad bar.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    5. Re:Somebody in the government... by Bugler412 · · Score: 1

      In government, that's what outside contractors are for, to blame!

    6. Re:Somebody in the government... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to work for the government, long enough to know that the most incompetent people are always promoted to management.

      The entire top 3 levels of management in a government agency has a lower IQ than a small salad bar.

      Now now, you're making them sound just like private enterprise.

    7. Re:Somebody in the government... by D1G1T · · Score: 1

      B) MIcrosoft is like IBM in government, no one gets fired for picking it.

      Security specialists should be.

    8. Re:Somebody in the government... by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I used to work for the government, long enough to know that the most incompetent people are always promoted to management.

      It's often referred to as the Peter Principle, and I assure you, the exact same thing happens in private industry all of the time.

      It's not unique to governments.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    9. Re:Somebody in the government... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I used to work for the government, long enough to know that the most incompetent people are always promoted to management.

      It's often referred to as the Peter Principle, and I assure you, the exact same thing happens in private industry all of the time.

      It's not unique to governments.

      It's not unique to governments, but governments tend to have low-turnover positions meaning once someone has risen to the level of their own incompetence, they stay there for 20 years until they retire. At least in for-profit corporations, business cycles every 5-7 years allow for "justified downsizing" which is really just trimming (some of) the idiots. Downsizing in government is far less frequent.

    10. Re:Somebody in the government... by serialband · · Score: 1

      No.

      The Peter Principle is "Employees tend to rise to their level of incompetence." They start out competent and reach the top of their rung, based on merit, so they get promoted. Eventually they get promoted to a job that they have no ability to do and they become incompetent through the promotion process.

      The Dilbert principle states that in many cases the least competent, least smart people are promoted, simply because they’re the ones you don't want doing actual work. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilbert_Principle

      They both result in the same thing, but the process is completely different. Peter Principle employees can always choose to move to a job they're capable of doing. They can be demoted and you'll have a productive employee again. There's not much you can do with Dilbert Principle PHBs, because they were incompetent through every level.

  3. Would you Like to Play a Game ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    How about Global ThermoNuclear War..

    1. Re:Would you Like to Play a Game ? by Hsien-Ko · · Score: 4, Funny

      Powered by Internet Exploder!

    2. Re:Would you Like to Play a Game ? by sethradio · · Score: 1

      HAHA!

      --
      "Nationalism is an infantile sickness. It is the measles of the human race." -Albert Einstein
    3. Re:Would you Like to Play a Game ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The WOPR simulation system in "War Games" was NOT powered by anything from Microsoft. It would have taken too long, and the graphics would all be broken. The thing worked, and was even able to learn why GTNW was a bad idea, so obviously... not Microsoft.

  4. Hold Microsoft Responsible by Murdoch5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If I make a medical device that has a serious software bug and goes awall and kills people I'm held responsible. If I start a company who dumps oil into the ocean by accident and it kills people / animals I'm held responsible. So shouldn't company's who release buggy software be held responsible for damages and compensation?

    1. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No. This was not gross negligence. This was not a bug that would affect anyone under conditions remotely close to normal. This is something that is being actively exploited by someone (the criminal in this case) in a way never intended by the programmers. It'd be like suing the people who made the bullets used in the Sandy Hook massacre. Not only that, they probably agreed when they installed the software not to hold the software company responsible for anything. The way the system works, if Microsoft does this enough and demonstrates that they cannot create secure products, the market (cue angel choir) will punish them.

    2. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The way the system works, if Microsoft does this enough and demonstrates that they cannot create secure products, the market (cue angel choir) will punish them.

      It's an interesting theory. How much is enough?

    3. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If I make a medical device that has a serious software bug and goes awall and kills people I'm held responsible

      And if you discover that software bug and issue fixes and notices and your customers fail to implement the fix, is it still your fault?

      This one ... OK, this makes me a little twitchy ... isn't Microsoft's fault.

      It's 2013. Why are they still running IE8 for anything where security is a concern? Windows 7 has been out for 4 years and IE9 for 2. IE10 is out, and two months should be enough to do a patch deployment, but even if it's borderline, by most accounts IE9/10 are not the horrible bags of garbage that the old versions were.

      Who is not doing patch management? Who is allowing XP machines near critical systems? Who chose IE8 over Firefox when that decision was made? Did somebody specify an IE6-only solution prior to that, ignoring standards and best practices, leading to a chain reaction of a mess? Who is not cleaning that up?

      Answer those questions and you'll find those responsible for today's vulnerable IT landscape.

      And, of course the primary responsibility lies with those coordinating the attacks. But we know those people are out there. If a clerk forgets to close up the store at night and goes home with the front door open, it's not that he is responsible for the burglars' actions, but he's also not doing his job and won't be working there the next day.

      </ick>

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    4. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I make a medical device that has a serious software bug and goes awall

      You can pick awol or awry, but "awall" isn't a word.

    5. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by femtobyte · · Score: 2

      If I start a company who dumps oil into the ocean by accident and it kills people / animals I'm held responsible.

      Only if your company isn't big enough to act with virtual impunity. Who was put in jail when BP murdered twelve people and devastated the gulf coast ecosystem, in order to cut maintenance costs?

    6. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      So shouldn't company's who release buggy software be held responsible for damages and compensation?

      Well, their EULAs indemnify them from this, and courts have upheld the EULAs.

      So, no, they're not really held responsible, and there is a legal framework as to why.

      Software companies can do almost anything they want to, or as badly as they can get away with, and for the most part there's not a thing you can do.

      Awesome, isn't it?

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    7. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The medical place I work at runs the level of Windows and the version of Internet Explorer because that's what the main software we use requires.

    8. Re: Hold Microsoft Responsible by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      What color is the sky where you live?

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    9. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Murdoch5 · · Score: 0

      They could be running Windows 3.1 and IE 1.0 and it shouldn't matter. If a bug is found 20 years after your software is released then there is still a bug and you should still offer a patch. I hate when software company's issue the "It's out of service and support", basically you don't want to take responsibility for the fact you might have buggy software floating around.

    10. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Murdoch5 · · Score: 2

      I think it's BS personally, if I build a bridge and it fails I'm held responsible. If I build a electronic system that fails and it hurts someone I'm responsible. If I'm a doctor and hurt someone same deal, if I'm a programmer and someone gets hurt from me code I wipe the chips from my beard, tuck my Hawaiian shirt in and go home.

    11. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Onymous+Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, that's the problem with a truly free market. Consumers are stupid and inattentive, corporations are clever and evasive.

      If every consumer were Ralph Nader I'd be a free market zealot. As that's not the case we have to find a different way to assure corporations behave themselves.

    12. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I make a medical device that has a serious software bug and goes awall and kills people I'm held responsible. If I start a company who dumps oil into the ocean by accident and it kills people / animals I'm held responsible. So shouldn't company's who release buggy software be held responsible for damages and compensation?

      No, they shouldn't. And it's funny you give the medical device example, as that's one of those things that you have probably never read, buried deep within a decade-old NT-era EULA that you [hit button to skip] past every time...(no seriously, go look)

    13. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As if bugs don't exist in most software out there. How dare Microsoft make this mistake!

    14. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Cenan · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Exactly this.
      Some of us are stuck with legacy systems, built with legacy tools and the original developers are long, long gone. While we try to unwind the horrible spaghetti mess that is our core business software, we have to make due with Win-XP VMs and all sorts of neat tricks to keep the rickety shit from collapsing in on itself.

      (Incidently, if any of you reading this worked at Borland/Inprise in the late nineties: hello how ar... FUCK YOU! and fuck your ridiculous fucking desktop database fucking crap. You fucking morons have no fucking clue how to nail a board onto another board, and you should all be lined up and punched in the dick. /rant)

      --
      ... whatever ...
    15. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by gmuslera · · Score: 1

      Responsibility takes weird turns when using Microsoft products.

    16. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why are they running...

      Because the Microsoft ads always say for every release "This is the best product available" or words to that effect. And their FUD prevents anyone from choosing alternate products.

      Microsoft only needs to be forced to have the following added to their "We are not responsible for anything" disclaimer: "Not for important work".

    17. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Because you agreed to it when you clicked YES on the EULA. The leagal standing of the EULA needs to be abolished.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    18. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      I think you can dump all the oil you like and get away with a slap on the wrist. Heck, senators will even apologize to you.

    19. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      IE8 is still supported. Windows 7 is just now something large companies and government are moving too. When you have hundreds of applications to verify or port it takes time.

      XP is still supported as well. FireFox only gained GPO support recently and not many folks are even aware that exists.

    20. Re: Hold Microsoft Responsible by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Orange with a hint of Pepsi...

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    21. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

      If a bug is found 20 years after your software is released then there is still a bug and you should still offer a patch.

      Forever, for free? Or are you planning to pay $10K up front for Windows 3.1? Or $99/yr for software maintenance on it?

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    22. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mention that and it reminds me of one of the IDEs for Java that had a disclaimer in the EULA about not being for use in medical devices, and a bunch of other off the wall things that I would never do in java like missile control platforms. Was that the Netbeans IDE?

    23. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Then your legacy system is severed from any public lan. your security goes up by 600% if you remove it from having the ability to do ANYTHING but what it is needed for. No you cant email. No you cant surf. No network access. you can only use a SANATIZED USB drive to copy the files needed off of the unit.

      Not hard to keep them hacker proof if the IT and ITS departments know what they are doing.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    24. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      we have to make due with Win-XP VMs

      But do you let those VM's go out and play on the global Internet (or even a non-isolated LAN)? By the clueful tone of your post, I'm guessing not. Yes, legacy systems suck, but they can't last forever so competent management has a plan to replace them, especially if they're rickety, and competent IT has a plan to protect/isolate them.

      BTW, *epic* rant.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    25. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

      I agree and I believe it's currently being attempted. No user can read, remember and process all the legal BS in a EULA, it would be like asking a child to read a college textbook and write a test, some will be able to but most will fail.

    26. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They could be running Windows 3.1 and IE 1.0 and it shouldn't matter. If a bug is found 20 years after your software is released then there is still a bug and you should still offer a patch. I hate when software company's issue the "It's out of service and support", basically you don't want to take responsibility for the fact you might have buggy software floating around.

      It is painfully obvious that you do not write software for a living, open source or proprietary.

    27. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Murdoch5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is why open source is the best software model on the market! You find a bug and you know how to fix it, go ahead, if you can't fix it but submit a bug report your almost always guaranteed another programmer can fix it. If your company adapts a closed software model then you should offer the same level of support as open source, meaning if someone finds a bug the company offers a fix. The lifetime of the software shouldn't matter, a bug today is a bug in 30 years and should be treated the same way. Yes most people will upgrade but for the few that have no need they should still get support.

    28. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by femtobyte · · Score: 1

      Only if you have enough oil to dump. Try pouring a quart of crude oil onto your senator's plate when he's eating at a fancy seafood restaurant, and you'll get a far less friendly response than if you dumped over two hundred million gallons on the food supply and livelihood of millions of gulf coast residents.

    29. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by RabidReindeer · · Score: 2

      I think it's BS personally, if I build a bridge and it fails I'm held responsible. If I build a electronic system that fails and it hurts someone I'm responsible. If I'm a doctor and hurt someone same deal, if I'm a programmer and someone gets hurt from me code I wipe the chips from my beard, tuck my Hawaiian shirt in and go home.

      Well, are you willing to pay for software development costs that include developers carrying insurance the way that doctors and engineering firms do? Are you willing to spend the amount of money it takes to hire competent developers? Are you willing to wait a significant amount of time so that the software design is thoroughly vetted and tested instead of just rammed out the door?

      Or do you want your Lower Prices Everyday - Git-er-Dun cheap crap?

    30. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Unless the business demands it be on a public lan.

      Then what?

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    31. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by interkin3tic · · Score: 0

      If every consumer were Ralph Nader, then George W Bush would be king for life.

      (I kid, I kid, please don't get butthurt, nader supporters)

    32. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also don't forget that you can always hire an unrelated programmer to fix that bug. It doesn't matter if the whole continent of the original programmer blew up. (Well, apart from the nuclear winter, of course. ;)

    33. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you made a medical software and a hospital was using an old version that an assassin could exploit that does not exist in the updated version then the hospital should have updated long ago.

      If you made a medical software that had a bug that caused it to kill people but you had put out an update and the hospital still continued to use the version with the bug the hospital should still have updated it long ago.

      If you made a medical software and someone made their money exploiting it. You would put out updates constantly and still get exploited, because when making money is involved someone will find a way.

    34. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      You correctly identify why the economics of open source are superior. That doesn't change the fact that most people aren't willing to pay up front for the costs of correct software.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    35. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If it's medical? Call up and report them for a HIPPA violation.
      If it's a municipality? Document it and deliver a nice anonymous tip to the local news how the supervisors there are risking the public with their incompetence.. News LOVES that kind of story.

      You have a lot of options, Public humiliation tends to get the fastest results.

    36. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Well, that covers everything.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    37. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

      This is why I support open source, I want my software to work, get support, be rock solid, get review and serve the public! So do I want to spend a ton of money, no, but I will in turn just pick the better development model. If I'm not willing to go / use open source then I think I should have to swallow the costs.

    38. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

      I think closed source company's should absorb the extra cost, it's just me but when I have option that generally provide the support I want and the releases I want then why would I pay extra. I'll pay the same, and I'm willing to pay for open source software so match the price and provide the same service. It's like an abstraction layer, I don't care how it works under the hood, I just want the face value to work the same at all times and charge me the same money in the end.

    39. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Well that is obvious.

      You have to be to big too fail/punish/obey the law.

    40. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Cenan · · Score: 1

      Then your legacy system is severed from any public lan.

      No they most definately are not. This whole article would never be up there unless that was decidedly NOT the case.

      --
      ... whatever ...
    41. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Cenan · · Score: 1

      Right, that about does it. Report anyone using anything short of the latest version of anything for a violation of being stupid without a license. Problem solved, more along. You will of course not mind us shutting down your life support sir! why you see it's running a version of the firmware we simply cannot tolerate in this, our perfect utopia. Shut the fuck up, armchair warrior.

      --
      ... whatever ...
    42. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Cenan · · Score: 1

      Yes, legacy systems suck, but they can't last forever so competent management has a plan to replace them, especially if they're rickety, and competent IT has a plan to protect/isolate them.

      Unfortunately for the rest of us, "not forever" is a long, long time - just shy of forever. Legacy systems last however long the business can derive a profit from running them. Including the profit of sacking anyone not absolutely vital/related in the development department, then renaming it to IT (cause that's business'y). On the bright side, the learning experience of it all far outweighs any that could be had in any of the run-of-the-mill dev shop around here.

      BTW, *epic* rant.

      Thank you. That one has boiled for many, many a working day.

      --
      ... whatever ...
    43. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I work for the government. The reason they haven't updated past IE 8 is because they're only allowed to use things on a list of approved software. Unfortunately, the software list still says IE 8. Why? Because IE9/10 are incompatible with some systems we use. We either upgrade and spend millions revamping critical systems to work with the new browsers/OSs in a time where NO ONE in the government has money, or we use old programs and make ourselves slightly vulnerable. It's not an ideal system, but please don't think this is due to negligence; it's a lose lose situation.

    44. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by jeffmeden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If it's a municipality? Document it and deliver a nice anonymous tip to the local news how the supervisors there are risking the public with their incompetence.. News LOVES that kind of story.

      You have a lot of options, Public humiliation tends to get the fastest results.

      Hello, channel 5? Yes, I want to report that the administrators in Washington Township decided to take a computer running Internet Explorer 8, and connect it to the PUBLIC INTERNET! Can you believe the incompe-- Yes, I will hold. Hello?

    45. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forever, for free?

      Car companies do it, why can't software companies? A "bug" is a design defect, plain and simple. They should not be there to begin with. And EOLing an OS that came with hardware it shipped on still runs is IMO criminal.

    46. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by yuhong · · Score: 1

      The XP support ends in 2014.

    47. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by bbcisdabomb · · Score: 1

      The medical place I work at runs the level of Windows and the version of Internet Explorer because that's what the main software we use requires.

      I understand you're not placing the blame on Microsoft but. . . If you can't upgrade Windows or IE because of your business software but the fixes are there for Windows, then I'm inclined to place the blame on your business software. Still not Microsoft's fault.

      --
      Please put some pants on before you post again.
    48. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you build a bridge in your sandbox and somebody decides to use it for their motorbike, the idiot is the motorbike driver.

      People who seriously think they will ever be able to run Windows or any other commercial software securely are simply fucking idiots. Commercialware is so extremely bug-riddled because corporate developers will always be abused to "urgently deliver a these new features of the powerpoint slide of Dr Bozo, director of marketing", as "only delivering new features means new sales". There simply is no time in a commercial software development setting to properly care about security.

      When the shit hits the fan, they will fix one of their 173411 exploitable bugs, but they will certainly NOT perform any systematic search for them. They have a powerpoint slide with 172 new features not yet implemented, you know.

      The world of MBA is morally corrupted to the bone, so what the fuck do you expect ?

    49. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bugfree software is not an expectation here.

      With the possible exception of certain, small, highly reviewed, highly safety-critical code bases, there is no such thing as bugfree software.

      There is no possibility that you purchased Windows in the good faith belief that is was bug free.

      It is not reasonable to say that they were negligent in releasing software with bugs.

    50. Re: Hold Microsoft Responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Awall...? You mean AWOL? That's running and hiding nothing killing isn't it?

    51. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. This was not gross negligence. This was not a bug that would affect anyone under conditions remotely close to normal. This is something that is being actively exploited by someone (the criminal in this case) in a way never intended by the programmers. It'd be like suing the people who made the bullets used in the Sandy Hook massacre. Not only that, they probably agreed when they installed the software not to hold the software company responsible for anything. The way the system works, if Microsoft does this enough and demonstrates that they cannot create secure products, the market (cue angel choir) will punish them.

      Yeah, for no other browsers have vulnerabilities and exploits..

    52. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      We all voted the dumb fucks into government. Where is the Ex-Google engineer in charge of government network security ? Where is he clamping down massively on shitty IT security ?

      I predict that 100% of western secrets will be stolen over some sort of network over the next couple of years. Our leaders are simply the dumbest of the dumb and they compete against a team of engineers and other hard scientists at the top of China. That'*s like me competing in a physics test with my two-year old daughter.

      But hell yeah, Americans, you have made these "social scientists" fuck up my country, now eat your own medicine with your socialworker-in-chief and the previous fuck who was in the pay of the oily retards of Arabia.

    53. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also "companies", not "company's". What a nigger!

    54. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      legacy systems suck, but they can't last forever so competent management has a plan to replace them, especially if they're rickety

      Umm, I believe your *cough* modifier is dangling.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    55. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I think it is gross negligence. The fact that institutions like this tend to not use AppLocker or Software Restriction Policies built into Windows that is directly part of the reason these types of malware attacks are successful. If these systems were require to use software whitelisting on critical infrastructure these types of attacks would be rendered 99.9 % impotent.

    56. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by iceaxe · · Score: 1

      I don't care what happens, I am NOT tucking in my Hawaiian shirt.

      --
      WALSTIB!
    57. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Yes, and right now it is still 2013.
      Most companies are going to barely make that cut, many will not.

    58. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Why are you acting like a doormat? Learning experience? None/very few of those skills are transferable.

      Get a new job! If they truly _need_ the system they will pay you more then you can imagine for a short while. If you choose to stay make sure when they finally fire you (they will) they think 'extortionist'. I'm talking about 7 figures for six months. The number you should be thinking of is the budget for the replacement system. Retirement or business starting money, your call, should you choose to do a deal with the devil.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    59. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Not the way open source projects work. They end of life. Picking up non-trivial codebases yourself to fix a bug is a ridiculous idea. You'll do more damage then you fix. Have you ever written code? If you answer yes, get to work backporting bug fixes. Nobody else is going to do it. Pick a project, any project.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    60. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      People who engage in hyperbole are as bad a murderers.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    61. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      They make you wear pants? Poor bastard.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    62. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

      I can think of a lot of projects which support back-ported bug fixes. Even I support 90%+ of my own Open Source project from the first release version to the current state. The only exception is Beta and Alpha releases, hence the 10% variation. To be honest if the bug exists in an earlier version, chances are either it's been fixed already and hence a patch exists or it still exists and you can still fix it in the new version back to the problem version. Most software packages, at least the good one, build on themselves, so when you find a bug in an earlier version, chances are it's still there in the new one. At least this is how I develop and I know a number of other awesome developers that follow this method as well. There are 900 billion different ways to do everything so if you have your own style and method all the power to you but it's not the way I work.

    63. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Some of us are stuck with legacy systems, built with legacy tools and the original developers are long, long gone. While we try to unwind the horrible spaghetti mess that is our core business software, we have to make due with Win-XP VMs and all sorts of neat tricks to keep the rickety shit from collapsing in on itself.

      While I don't expect you to do anything other than what you're doing, you should realize that not all businesses deserve to survive. Those which make very poor decisions like hitching their wagon to a turd deserve to fail.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    64. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      If your company adapts a closed software model then you should offer the same level of support as open source, meaning if someone finds a bug the company offers a fix.

      I really don't see any reason why software should have to come with a warranty. If the market were willing to pay what that would actually cost to provide, then someone would be providing it by now. The People are apparently willing to pay what it would cost to provide that level of support for some software, as proven by Open Source and Free Software — in the form of time.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    65. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Versions end of life. When you find a bug in the new version you always back port it? Where is this masterpiece so we can all see it?

      Based on your post I see no signifcant rewrites/major versions. If you don't have any earlier major versions then backporting isn't much of a chore.

      Then again if your sole project hasn't evolved enough to require a single major rework you should not pretend to be an authority.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    66. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by cavreader · · Score: 2

      This is one of the first statements I have seen that forwards the idea that application software is possibly responsible for creating problems. Everyone seems to dump on MS and ignore the problems that applications can introduce. The MS blue screen was a symptom of problems in the 3rd party hardware drivers and API's from the start. MS has always tried to allow for a wide range of 3rd party hardware. Apple and MS have pursued opposite buisness models since they first arrived on the seen. Apple opted for controlling all aspects of the hardware while MS went the commodity hardware route. This allowed Apple to have more control over their hardware but that resulted in Apples products being more expensive than comparable MS offerings. The higher prices could not really compete in the buisness world where price always seems to be the deciding factor. Apple almost went bankrupt. MS actually invested considerable funds to help Apple make it through that period. The MS buisness model allowed MS to take a demanding lead in the desktop and application market. I also tend to see people worrying about which browser provides the best performance. Browser performance means nothing if the web content or web applications are poorly designed. Now you can pick the fastest browser and throw hardware at the performance problem but that band-aid only works to a certain point. This also applies to picking an OS based on performance bench marks.

    67. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

      You can rework software and keep the code base. For instance do you think the Linux kernel has it's source code entirely ripped out and recoded? Or do you think the GNU userland has the code base entirely ripped out and reworked? If you started with quality code then when you want to do a massive code revision you can keep most if not all of the base code. I couldn't imagine restarting my three firmware's when I want to add a feature or move from version 3.0 to 4.0. I might inject a good portion of new code but I'm always able to revert back easily. If a bug gets logged in the current version of my genre detectors code I don't just look in the last revision, I go back and see if it exist in version 1.0 and move forward, if it's in version 1.0 then I write the patch to be compatible from 1.0 up to 3.8 ( the current version ). Just because I make an upgrade doesn't mean people using my code should have to upgrade, they should be able to get support no matter what version they run.

      How ever if you don't program this way that's fine, I do, so I can comment that it works. A good example for not keeping the code base is Microsoft and Blackberry, who both have done a massive entire rewrite including base code. Does this mean they should only support the newest code? They might say yes but I disagree.

      Even if I wanted to do an entire rewrite of a firmware for some odd reason I still wouldn't drop support for the older versions, because frankly a bug is a bug and it shouldn't exist no matter how far back I go. Now if your running 0.12 of my detector robot's firmware then I don't care, that would be an Alpha release, it's to old and it's not a full version release, so I wont go out of my way to fix a bug.

      If you really want to see all my code project I can gladly get you access to the GIT repo that hosts them, it will take some time as the GIT repo is at the school where I graduated from. In either case I just don't agree with dropping support for old software.

    68. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      No. This was not gross negligence. This was not a bug that would affect anyone under conditions remotely close to normal. This is something that is being actively exploited by someone (the criminal in this case) in a way never intended by the programmers. It'd be like suing the people who made the bullets used in the Sandy Hook massacre. Not only that, they probably agreed when they installed the software not to hold the software company responsible for anything. The way the system works, if Microsoft does this enough and demonstrates that they cannot create secure products, the market (cue angel choir) will punish them.

      Would it be gross negligence to still use fucking IE 8 and XP ... in 2013 no less?!

      4 years is a long time. for comparison is is the time from Netscape 1.0 to IE 6. Can you image running Netscape 1.0 in 2001? Especially with security. XP has limited sandboxing and it is more dangerous regardless of the browser in XP. It doesn't have the kernel level support that Windows 7 has.

      Get with the times folks as IE 9 which is over 2 years old (ancient again) does not have this problem.

    69. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      IE8 is still supported. Windows 7 is just now something large companies and government are moving too. When you have hundreds of applications to verify or port it takes time.

      XP is still supported as well. FireFox only gained GPO support recently and not many folks are even aware that exists.

      Corporations are being stupid and short term profit sighted.

      We upgraded in 2 years every desktop flat. That's what we did in those days and just because people do it every 10 years doesn't mean it is wrong to do it less?! Kind of like lemmonings dropping from a cliff. Yes the great recession hit I.T. hard and when the lights are going to be shut off in 2009 when Windows 7 came out is a great reason to stick with the aging XP. I did not buy Windows 7 because I was worried about the market and my wallet then too.

      But just today the Dow hit 15,000! Why? Companies are sitting on record mountains of cash. They wont hire. They wont expand. They wont invest. They will lose the dollar to save that nickel so the accountants can give themselves a bonus on seen costs that fight nice in a spreadsheet. .... enough rant.

      If you have hundreds of apps my friend why don't you have the I.T. budget to keep it running. Does grandma have to certify her facebook before she upgrades? We did all these things with no problem and it is part of your job to do so and part of managements job to make sure they have the tools and staff to do so. Otherwise you are one code red disaster from losing 10 of millions and all your saved money will go out the drain in lost productivity.

    70. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      The dow just hit 15,000 because corporations are sitting on mountains of cash.

      They are being lazy and cheap and I.T. is not selling themselves and are being lazy.

      You will be amazed at how these licenses will be resolved when feet are under the fire. Software requiring IE 8 is because the accountants buying them do not know what that means and corps just put up with it.

      In 2001 would your boss buy something requiring Netscape 1.0? It would be shot down! Come and demand better!

    71. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Billly+Gates · · Score: 0

      It is not just warranty.

      These XP loyalists who wont go to Window s7 scream when whey hear Linux! Why? It changes every few weeks when Ubuntu update changes something due to the lack of an ABI. Drivers for my ATI 5750 no longer work. A kernel update will break XORG etc.

      Windows XP just stays the same for year after year after year. Why change?

      FOSS means no support at all. I do not mean calling up some guy in India with a question either. I am referring to apps written for it. I am referring to hardware being QAd and well tested, I am taking staff being familiar with just that version.

      Sorry but Redhat 7.0 with GCC 2.96 can't run the latest Gimp today. Nor in 10 years Gnome 2 will run. Redhat Enterprise will come the closest I guess but it is not because the community supports it. It is because they pay Redhat to support it.

    72. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Cenan · · Score: 1

      I'm perfectly capable of negotiating my own salary, that's not the point with this. It really doesn't matter what tools you're working with, what does matter is the things you accomplish. I knew from the start what I went into, but that does not excuse the Borland people from being ranted at. They produced some of the best development tools of their day, but this particular piece of software is an absolute abomination. And it's not because of the number of bugs in it, that's ok, bugs happen. It's the design decisions they made.

      1) User Code is run ON the UI thread of the IDE. Any error tears the whole thing down.
      2) There is no concurrency model. At.All. There is nothing you can do to ensure data is flushed, except wait and hope. There are a number of different methods you can call that says they flush data. But they lie.
      3) Exception handling code is supposed to be used for program flow control (I kid you not). Exceptions are not very exceptional, and you can retry, completely ignoring that the internal state might be corrupted. Which it is most of the time anyways, from sheer stupidity.
      4) They rolled their own textbox control that captures mouse events, and stubbornly ignores them. No sir, you may not scroll in this window, we forbid it.
      5) Text buffers inside the IDE are all fixed size (about 64k). But none of them are checked for overflow, completely defeating the purpose. Writing too much code in one sitting may tear down the IDE with a GPF. There are no prior warnings to this. It just happens.
      6) If you do manage to write too much code, pray that you have an old copy of the source because the IDE will keep crashing with GPF if you re-open it.
      7) When you save your work the output is a mangled soup of plain text + native x86 code. There is no way to edit source code outside the IDE.

      --
      ... whatever ...
    73. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      FOSS means no support at all.

      That is a lie, and you are a liar.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    74. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      You are preaching to the choir. The reality is there no one to certify the apps. Most of these are from customers that require we use their systems and they have to be certified because they are crap.

      If facebook failed this often grandma would find a replacement. We can't we are stuck using this crap or we don't get paid.

    75. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by nobodie · · Score: 1

      i'm good with suing the bullet manufacturers, it's not like they didn't know that some percentage of their bullets would be used to kill/maim/injure people.

      HMMMM, I wonder what that percentage is?

      --
      Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.
    76. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      For example: when Linux changes it's driver model they rip out header files and replace them. This cascades to many other files that reference the driver model. You can't do that and maintain backward compatibility.

      Fast forward a few years. You find a bug in the current kernel and fix it. Does it even exist in the obsolete versions? Who has time to check? If someone really needs the old version they can backport all the bug fixes they need out of the change log.

      Your biggest project is a school project, is not generally available and hasn't existed long enough to require a major rewrite? You should stop pretending to be an authority on software support. You haven't even been completely through once software life cycle.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    77. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

      No, they were school projects which I ported. I left the projects on the school GIT server because they let me, no reason to move them when I have no reason to. However you'll just argue me anyway so I don't care. Have fun rewriting every single piece of software you write because you want to upgrade something.

    78. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by sjames · · Score: 1

      Only if that bug kills people in and of itself. If it merely allows other people t9o kill people, then no. Same way an auto manufacturer is not held responsable if someone successfully plants a bomb in your trunk to kill you.

    79. Re:Hold Microsoft Responsible by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

      That I can agree with, however it would still be nice to see programmers take bugs more seriously, as most don't.

  5. same old same old by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    lets Blame the Chinese.

    1. Re:same old same old by sethradio · · Score: 0

      I know. They are communist, and that's bad.

      What's communism? Uhhh... I don't know but it's bad.

      --
      "Nationalism is an infantile sickness. It is the measles of the human race." -Albert Einstein
    2. Re:same old same old by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Here's some documentation on why it's bad.

      The Black Book of Communism
       

  6. Where are the stand alone machines? by Picass0 · · Score: 2

    It would could far less than incident analysis and cleanup to provide dedicated machines for external web use. Companies and agencies that tollerate occasional surfing should have machines that do not share the internal network.

    1. Re:Where are the stand alone machines? by sethradio · · Score: 1

      Why should they listen to you? You're just a dumb fourteen-year-old geek, posting on slashdot in you're basement.

      Note: I'm just a fourteen-year-old geek posting to /. in my loft!!

      --
      "Nationalism is an infantile sickness. It is the measles of the human race." -Albert Einstein
    2. Re:Where are the stand alone machines? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With a six digit UID, I doubt he's 14...

    3. Re:Where are the stand alone machines? by mlts · · Score: 1

      Even better, why not keep the internal machines completely locked down with zero ability to connect to the Internet (and perhaps have the IDS/IPS that monitors that segment set to look for packets that are not that IP range, just to make sure.)

      Then have a Citrix server (preferably on a VMWare or other hypervisor for quick snapshot rollbacks) for the Web browsers and anything that connects to the outside world directly?

      This isn't rocket science, and I've seen places who used Citrix not just to keep the outside stuff out so a Web browser compromise is on an external machine, but to keep internal use applications on secure servers, and they stood extreme amounts of intrusion attempts without issue.

      Microsoft has similar with App-V, but Citrix is nice because one can get receiver software on almost any platform.

    4. Re:Where are the stand alone machines? by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      All that stuff costs money.
      People will complain the government is wasting their tax dollars if they ever tried to spend money on that.

    5. Re:Where are the stand alone machines? by SuperAlgae · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure he was making a reference to Rep. Mike Rogers' comment on opponents to CISPA.
      http://www.google.com/search?q=mike+rogers+cispa+14

    6. Re:Where are the stand alone machines? by Picass0 · · Score: 1

      I'm not quite a neckbeard but you are four years older than my children.

      Once I'm done remodeling my basement it will be a very nice place to post to slashdot from.

  7. change.org by sproketboy · · Score: 1

    We need to make a petition at change.org! Oh, I guess we only do that for Oracle.

  8. Re:Thanks for the help, Microsoft! by sethradio · · Score: 1

    It's still there.

    --
    "Nationalism is an infantile sickness. It is the measles of the human race." -Albert Einstein
  9. Anyone remember the saying? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    "Nobody ever got fired for picking Microsoft." The time is ripe for that being overturned.

  10. What company ? by alexhs · · Score: 1

    a big European company operating in the aerospace, defense, and security industries

    Or EADS for short. I mean, "a" ??? Is there any other ?

    --
    I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
    1. Re:What company ? by Melkman · · Score: 1

      Yup there are other ones. Thales also comes to mind....

    2. Re:What company ? by alexhs · · Score: 1

      Oops, you're right. Wikipedia has a nice list.
      The given definition for aerospace manufacturer has "and/or spacecraft", while I thought the "and" was mandatory (to differentiate from "aeronautics").

      If we go by the "and", this other list leads to a shorter list of EADS, Thales and Safran (if I didn't miss one).

      --
      I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
  11. Where's The Java-Like Outrage? by snookerdoodle · · Score: 1

    While it seems to have died out a bit (and Oracle certainly showed little concern), there were cries from some people to remove Java from everyone's computer because of the (legitimate) exploits in applets. Am I missing something, or shouldn't the same people be calling on everyone to remove I.E. from their computers, given Microsoft's record with browser exploits?

    1. Re:Where's The Java-Like Outrage? by satuon · · Score: 2

      I've already removed it in favor of Chrome.

    2. Re:Where's The Java-Like Outrage? by cavreader · · Score: 2

      I will let you in on a secret. There is only tiny number of wannabe IT experts who are "outraged" while everybody else saves their indignation for shit that really matters. And as far as software bugs go name one program more complicated than "Hello World" that doesn't have bugs. If you want bug free software you might as well get used to a 10 year release cycle becuase that is how long it would take to guarantee bug free software. Of course that puts a real crimp in the advancement of any actual hardware, especially processors. Anyone running highly critical applications such as utilities have all the tools, policies, and procedures necessary to secure their networks and applications. If some moron allows Internet access to their secure system than yes they should be held accountable for incompetence and fired. However you can't always rely on someone not doing something stupid. The most frequent vector used today is through phishing and spearing attacks via a persons e-mail and clever social manipulation. In the case of this exploit it compromised a Internet site that is little more than a brochure site with non-critical information. People brayed about the latest batch of script kiddies defacing the FBI and US Congress sites but that does not mean they got access into any secure systems. Outward facing websites should never be designed to allow someone into a secured network and when it is easy to configure and design such a system. But like I said you can't rely on everyone being competent.

    3. Re:Where's The Java-Like Outrage? by JDG1980 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Because the Java exploits applied to the latest, fully patched version – not an old version which has been superseded for more than 2 years.

  12. Previously unknown? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    By you and me maybe.

  13. plain shoddy, and v. others? by Onymous+Coward · · Score: 1

    I used to see Internet Explorer as the devil, so full of holes it would result in your Windows box needing a reinstall every couple months.

    I was aggressively advocating switching from IE around the apex of this curve, and overjoyed as it plummeted.

    Are my prior impression about IE being buggy and dangerous still valid? Has IE cleaned up any? I get the impression it has.

    And I was pushing folks to use Firefox as the alternative. How does Firefox compare to IE now? I get the impression IE is still a bad choice for a number of reasons, but also that Firefox is itself playing a game of clean-up after bloat issues.

    Basically, at this point I'll push folks to use any browser that's not dominant. Get it? Fragmented influence in browser protocols means we get standards and standards compliance instead of the nightmare incompatibilities from intentional protocol "extending" and corrupting that MS and NS were pushing in their bids for complete control.

    Makes me want to go back to the 2003 Slashdot posts to identify the IE advocates so I can publicly shame them now.

    1. Re:plain shoddy, and v. others? by yuhong · · Score: 2

      IE9 and later are not affected by this zero day.

  14. Re:Thanks for the help, Microsoft! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Check your connection? That link works.

  15. Major media outlet(s), too by mattashburn · · Score: 1

    DC's top news station, WTOP, is now blocking access to IE browsers after a similar compromise: http://wtop.com/41/3313012/WTOP-vicitim-of-malicious-cyber-attack

  16. Remove IE? by bussdriver · · Score: 1

    You do know that IE can not be removed from Windows right? You do know MS was in big trouble with governments over it's bundling of IE and its LIES in court about it being impossible for them to remove?

    Well, then you probably don't know about how Bush appointed MS to oversee it's own punishment after losing the court case... and that is why the problem continues unresolved...

    1. Re:Remove IE? by yuhong · · Score: 2

      IE can be removed enough from Vista and later that it's engine is not easily used for untrusted content.

    2. Re:Remove IE? by bussdriver · · Score: 1

      thanks. I clearly haven't touched windows since XP... some relatives PCs had it and I didn't even look to see if I could actually uninstall IE. Next time I'll try it.

    3. Re:Remove IE? by yuhong · · Score: 1

      Yea, go to Control Panel->Programs and Features->Turn Windows features on or off.

  17. How about a nice game of chess? by puddingebola · · Score: 1

    No, how about global thermonuclear war. How about Microsoft pushes updates for Internet Explorer to XP?

    1. Re:How about a nice game of chess? by servognome · · Score: 1

      Given the current political climate I'd prefer to try out "Theaterwide Biotoxic and Chemical Warfare"

      --
      D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
  18. Where'd the malicious links come from? by jonathanjespersen · · Score: 2
    From the article:

    Malicious links embedded in the Department of Labor website focused on webpages that dealt with illnesses suffered by employees and contractors developing atomic weapons for the Department of Energy.

    So in addition to the 0-day exploit found in IE, what was exploited to put malicious links on the web site?

    1. Re:Where'd the malicious links come from? by rduke15 · · Score: 1

      I'm wondering too. Reading the /. discussion in the hope of finding the answer, but all I read so far was just the usual MS-bashing and MS-defense blabber.

      How can a browser vulnerability compromise a server? Or are the redirects only happening in the browser? Then the summary is misleading.

  19. Stop calling everything a 0-day attack! by MobyDisk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This was a known patched vulnerability in an old version of IE. It was not a 0-day vulnerability. A 0-day vulnerability is one where there were 0 days to fix it because it was exploited before the software vendor knew about it. Stop using that term for every single headline! (Not blaming Slashdot this time - The title is straight from the arstechnica article)

  20. Internet Explorer 8... by MakerDusk · · Score: 1

    If you're still using internet explorer 8, you deserve this. Microsoft is almost on IE11 at this point (looks like firefox). If it shipped with Vista, why are you still using it and thinking you're safe? While you're at it, why not use Windows XP and avoid security updates as well... If you don't like 8, install 7. If your programs aren't compatible with anything later than XP... well... those will have security that's so outdated you might as well just consider the entire system a liability and get insurance for the lawsuits.

  21. Lousy system administration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The system administration there must be really lousy.
    Normally you won't be affected by browser bugs like this.
    Because your users work as an unprivileged user, not an admin.
    Because you have a group policy that forbids execution of software from locations where users can write to.
    Because you have a proxy or firewall that forbids users downloading software.
    Because your network layout is such that compromised systems cannot connect to C&C servers.
    etc.

    There should be multiple layers of defense in such a system and network, and apparently there isn't.

  22. Here's The FIX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Simply don't use "raw" C and C++ to create programs which face input from untrusted sources. The mentioned exploit is one of the typical memory management bugs (use after free()/delete).

    Here is a compiler which will emit memory-safe C++:

    http://sourceforge.net/projects/sappeurcompiler/

    The Sappeur language retains almost all C++ efficiency features, such as

    + Stack Allocation of almost all kinds of objects/basic types
    + Object Aggregation (Instance of type A contains instance of type B without any pointers/references needed)
    + Arrays of complex Objects as opposed to arrays of references
    + Synchronous Destructors called when YOU want them to be called, not when the runtime decides to do that
    + very lean, small programs possible. Start up, process, terminate in a few milliseconds (like the little Unix tools)
    + shared (but safe) access to thread-shared data structures possible
    + Reference-counted pointers which will synchronously call the destructor when refcount reaches zero

    And yeah, it's not a silver bullet to all security issues, but it will eliminate at least 50% of exploitable bugs in a typical software project, where you can't inspect code forever and where someone will demand a release in a short timespan.

    1. Re:Here's The FIX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, Rust seems to be quite similar to Sappeur. At first glance it seems they have been trying to incorporate lots of features into rust - from exceptions to lambda functions, though.

      I consider these things as being not strictly necessary. But Rust is definitely better than marching on the way of C and C++ development, raw pointers, crazy casting and so on. Of course we could have "enlightened" and "disciplined" C++ programmers who would refrain from using these techniques. But we all know enlightenment and discipline comes at a cost the modern manager-retard is typically not willing to pay. For them it's ProgrammerPerformance = Features / TimeElapsed. To them there is no such thing as quality and/or security.

    2. Re:Here's The FIX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just spotted one conceptual difference of Sappeur and Rust:

      "Tasks use Rust's type system to provide strong memory safety guarantees. In particular, the type system guarantees that tasks cannot share mutable state with each other. Tasks communicate with each other by transferring owned data through the global exchange heap."

      If I understand this properly, threads communicate by means of pipes. With Sappeur you can have shared state between threads and special precautions are taken to make that memory-safe. Essentially, these objects can only be accessed via automatically lock-protected methods. That implies one should not call these methods with maximum frequency, as there is some overhead for each call (essentially inter-core or inter-CPU cache synchronisation in realistic cases). I still consider this quite efficient and convenient as compared to using pipes. Certainly, shared state is not always simple to properly implement and that's where pipes are probably at an advantage. But you can implement pipes in Sappeur, too.

      I am sure there are quite a few more differences in Sappeur and Rust - this is just the one I easily spotted.

      References:
      http://static.rust-lang.org/doc/tutorial-tasks.html

    3. Re:Here's The FIX by Lennie · · Score: 1

      I've never coded something in Erlang, but I believe Rust tried to copy the idea of message passing from Erlang.

      I think message passing allows you to copy the data, which would mean you might not need to deal with cache coherence issues.

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
  23. Here's the fix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't fucking put your goddamn motherfucking top secret nuclear research facilities on the goddamn motherfucking Internet.

    Jesus fuck?

  24. Re:not the real Michael Kristopeit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here I was hoping you were the real one. I'd rather have him around again instead of all these stupid APK troll posts.

  25. BOO TO NADER by jensend · · Score: 2

    You're completely incorrect about consumer behavior and market regulation, and your example of Nader is a fabulous example.

    The Nader-inspired passenger safety craze is directly responsible for the horrendously low average MPG in the USA and all the attendant environmental and political problems. It's also responsible for increased pedestrian and cyclist fatalities (known as early as Pelzman's 1975 study) and may even make drivers less safe.

    48 years after his book, despite all the tremendous advances in engineering and materials science, instead of the average vehicle on US roads being sub-1000 lbs and getting 200MPG (very feasible to do considerably better than this for 1-2 passenger cars, c.f. the decade-old VW 1L prototype), the average vehicle is >4000 lb and gets worse than 20MPG, little better than in 1965.

    The reason is a curb weight arms race caused by our absurd safety standards. The main way to meet crash test standards when faced with heavy vehicles is to increase your vehicle's weight.

    Passenger collision safety involves tradeoffs- among other things, tradeoffs with performance, efficiency, cost, and the safety of others on the road. Nader refused to recognize these tradeoffs. Our current safety laws ignore these tradeoffs, and even if they took them into account, overriding consumers' preferences regarding these tradeoffs will lead to inefficient market outcomes.

    If someone wants to purchase a more efficient, less expensive vehicle, the government shouldn't stop them just because it does slightly less well in collision tests. Consumers are perfectly capable of rationally choosing how much they're willing to trade guarantees of their own safety for other desiderata and vice versa.

    Regulating externalities, on the other hand, is often OK. Vehicle safety requirements should be based ONLY on the damage caused in collisions to other road users (other drivers, pedestrians, cyclists) and their property. Heavier vehicles perform WORSE in such tests; we might consider having a weight-based Pigovian vehicle tax to offset the safety and pollution externalities for those heavier cars we're still willing to allow on the roads.

    Providing consumers with more information is a good idea. I'm fine with performing tests and requiring companies to provide prospective buyers with that information. But requiring disclosure without regulating/prohibiting the sale of the product still allows for what I think most would call a "truly free market."

    If using MS's software may brick your neighbor's PC, go ahead and hold MS to the fire. If using MS's software may brick your own computer, require testing and a warning label. But the kind of guarantees the OP seems to want to require would override consumer preferences in a way that would cripple the software industry.

    1. Re:BOO TO NADER by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The Nader-inspired passenger safety craze is directly responsible for the horrendously low average MPG in the USA and all the attendant environmental and political problems.

      Bullshit, and also bullshit.

      Big Auto and Big Oil's respective influences on politics in America are directly responsible for the horrendously low average MPG in the USA and all the attendant environmental and political problems. Auto companies sell us gas guzzlers because they can advertise them on the basis of power (we love POWER!) and sell them for a lot more money even though they cost little more money to produce, and our laws permit us to drive these vehicles and fob the externalities off onto everyone else — the drivers as well as the petroleum companies.

      The reason is a curb weight arms race caused by our absurd safety standards. The main way to meet crash test standards when faced with heavy vehicles is to increase your vehicle's weight.

      It's the cheapest way, and because our laws don't mandate emissions as low nor mileage as high as they could, we do it that way. But more advanced vehicles can also achieve high crash test ratings while being very lightweight, for example the Smart Car. Or, for that matter, simply good design, like the Subaru Impreza; my 1993 with AWD and ABS weighed only 2750lb wet, and had exemplary crash test performance. The person I sold it to was clipped by someone who didn't bother to look before merging hard over to make a last-minute U-turn on the highway, and the vehicle rolled five times before coming to rest on its wheels. He got out and walked away with minor scratches.

      Vehicle safety requirements should be based ONLY on the damage caused in collisions to other road users (other drivers, pedestrians, cyclists) and their property.

      There is a public interest in protecting the occupants of vehicles from harm in a collision, which may not be their fault.

      we might consider having a weight-based Pigovian vehicle tax to offset the safety and pollution externalities for those heavier cars we're still willing to allow on the roads.

      We have one. It's called a fuel tax. If you want to argue that we need higher fuel taxes, I'm sympathetic to the idea only if the money is spent on mitigating the effects of their use, e.g. cancer research and carbon capture. Also, in California (the most populous state, with the most vehicles per person) there is already a weight tax. I am taxed on my pickup as if it were a commercial vehicle in spite of it not being one, and pay a couple extra hundred bucks a year for the privilege. I get real-world 15 or 16 MPG with it, which is better than some cars which weigh half as much and which is definitely better than many pickup trucks light enough to not register as commercial. I barely drive it, using it only for heavy work loads. I am being fucking robbed. Up yours, and your bullshit heavy vehicle tax. Fuel tax is all we need, or perhaps higher mileage and emissions standards. We tried to have those in California, but the federal government told us we couldn't. We actually voted to have those in California, but we were told it would be illegal restraint of trade or some other such bullshit.

      My solution to this "problem" is to leave it alone. But I want ISPs which filter (including bullshit transparent proxies) to be liable for traffic coming from their network. I have a real IP address and I'm still going through a transparent proxy which occasionally gets used by some douche or their owned computer to try to take something over, with repercussions for me.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:BOO TO NADER by jensend · · Score: 1

      Again, your example proves my point and not yours. The second-generation (2007-present) Smart Fortwo is a 1800lb vehicle that gets surprisingly bad mileage (31/41) for how tiny and underpowered it is. My (1990?) Chevy Sprint Metro hatchback seated more people (5 vs 2), had way more cargo room, weighed 250lb less, and got better mileage (44/53). The difference is primarily in "safety" engineering geared towards unrealistic crash tests. With today's safety requirements, the closest equivalents to the Sprint now weigh 2400 lb instead of 1550.

      The rest of your ranting is just silly and naive. Auto companies advertise MPG too, you know, often about as much as they advertise power. If waving a magic regulation wand made it so they could produce vehicles which were no more expensive, had performance the market would accept, still met the ridiculous crash test standards, and had twice the fuel efficiency, they'd do so in a moment without California or anybody else telling them they had to. Unless you change consumers' incentives by raising fuel taxes and change producers' engineering constraints by loosening collision requirements, you aren't going to get tremendously better MPG esp. without causing a lot of unnecessary pain.

    3. Re:BOO TO NADER by nobodie · · Score: 1

      Hear Hear! After living in the rest of the world where 2 cars produce the same pollution as one American car and those 2 cars are usually filled with 2-5 people, I returned to the US.

      The cars here are ginormous! I mean really, really big. And then I hear things from co-workers like, "I have to have a big SUV because people keep hitting me!" (from someone who has had 3 minor accidents in three months). Traveling through Atlanta this week I had my son with me and we were driving in the HOV2+ lane, almost alone. I had him looking to see if there were any cars not in HOV who could be, and no, they all had one single person in their ginormousness.

      Having driven cars, trucks (6-18 wheels) motorcycles, scooters and bicycles most of my life I am sick and tired of American stupidity on this topic. We need smaller cars that are safer, not stupid dinosaurs that are not safer, but give retarded and untaught consumers the visual impression of formidable safety (as in "I am such a mean son-of-a-bitch that if you hit me I will hit you back harder"). It is time to end the insanity that is American car design.

      And finally: comfort. Ten years ago I had a 23 year old Nissan Sunny in Thailand and would, with biannual regularity, drive the whole family of wife and three kids from Chiang Mai to Koh Chang: a fifteen hour drive. The Sunny is the same size as a Tercel and we are all big Dutch/American people/children. The kids still talk about how much fun those rides were, how we listened to "The Hitchhiker's guide", "Moon over Morocco" and rode through "Amazing Thailand." Never will you hear any complaint about discomfort, because we were having a good time together. Jeez people, get a clue.

      --
      Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.
  26. MPG is low based on more than just safety reqs by bigtrike · · Score: 1

    You know what else keeps fuel efficiency low? Big engines. Consumers have demanded them instead of efficient vehicles in part because we make driving artificially cheap by subsidizing road construction with more funds than we take in from gas taxes. Consumers are typically horrible at acting rationally in their own self interest and are far more likely to act on emotion and misinformation, although I don't think the government should necessarily take the nanny role in those situations.

    1. Re:MPG is low based on more than just safety reqs by jensend · · Score: 1

      I'm in full agreement with your first three sentences; the US gas tax definitely needs to be substantially increased, as has been said by all the more honest experts, from Steven Chu to Greg Mankiw.

      But your last sentence is nuts. People do a reasonably decent job at acting in their own individual self interest. We've distorted their incentives with huge subsidies, and in those circumstances it's especially unsurprising that people choosing what makes sense for them as individuals can lead to overall outcomes that are bad for society.

      We don't need to treat people as irrational, we need to change their incentives to better reflect the real social costs of their vehicle use. Then their self-interested choices will lead to better social results.

  27. Re:not the real Michael Kristopeit by gmhowell · · Score: 1

    Here I was hoping you were the real one. I'd rather have him around again instead of all these stupid APK troll posts.

    The best is the time when the two of them managed to troll each other.

    --
    Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon