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DoD Descends On DEFCAD
First time accepted submitter He Who Has No Name writes "While the ATF appears to have no open objection to 3D printed firearms at this time, the Department of Defense apparently does. A short while ago, '#DEFCAD has gone dark at the request of the Department of Defense Trade Controls. Take it up with the Secretary of State' appeared on
the group's site, and download links for files hosted there began to give users popups warning of the DoD takeover."
Well, that didn't take long.
Note: As of this writing, the site is returning an error, rather than the message above, but founder Cody Wilson has posted a similar message to twitter. At least the Commander in Chief is in town to deliver the message personally.
Update: 05/09 21:17 GMT by T : Tweet aside, that should be Department of State, rather than Department of Defense, as many readers have pointed out. (Thanks!)
Glad to see that the first amendment is so inviolable...
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
These files have been available for a day and have propagated to many other sites. So much for control.
I hope this caused some synapses to fire.
The real question is, when did we give the DoD control over domestic actions? The constitution strictly prohibits the military from acting as a policing force on US soil. So, who the hell gave them the right to take down a domestic website?
Streisand Effect!
-- Prepared at the direction of, or to be sent to Legal Counsel, in anticipation of litigation. Attorney Client Pri
A couple of hours ago i downloaded and printed a design from that site. I also proved why this is a gigantic non-issue: getting a good print from a 3d printer is very involved. The machines need a lot of fiddling to get them working right. My magazine, which was supposed to be flat bottomed, had a distinctive curve to it that did not make for a good working part.
Easy Online Role Playing Campaign Management
They are just nuts.
Hornady CEO or pres the other day came out and said as much. Less than 5% of their output goes to all levels of government. This is panic buying and no manufacturer wants to invest in facilities and tooling that will go unused next year when the panic ends.
Wasn't there something about due process in some document or other somewhere? Something about a warrant needed before the government can take action?
I can understand taking action as part of the legal process - confiscating evidence as part of filing for criminal charges, for instance. But can the government simply act unilaterally with no oversight? Has it always been this way?
Is it always "government does what it wants with no oversight, and the victim has to get the courts involved?"
Seems like that might be a good change to be included in the next constitution.
Uh, no, it doesn't. The first amendment is the right to free speech. The second amendment is the right to bear arms.
What you are missing here is that these files this guy is sharing are essentially just descriptions of shapes and therefore typically would be considered speech. The files then let you make arms (though really poor quality ones). He is sharing information though, not arms, which is why this has been transmuted from a second amendment issue to a first amendment one.
I'm still wondering though due to that Tao of Math line if I've been expertly trolled or not.
Big apple, new Yorik, undig it, something's unrotting in Edenmark.
There are plenty of parts of the world where they don't have electricity or indoor plumbing, but you can get a local gunsmith to bang out a good copy of an AK-47 (the skills of these guys w/ simple hand tools amazes me, even if I'm not always thrilled w/ their customers). But design files for a plastic zip gun threaten national security?
...most of congress, along with scotus, suffers from reasonable seizures. It's from the bill of blights, supported by executive disorder.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
.... is now free of information on building a gun.
http://www.amazon.com/Homemade-Guns-And-Ammo/dp/158160677X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1368132669
Oh hey
The problem isn't government. The problem is the passive, benighted electorate that tolerates it. We, as a population, get the government we deserve.
Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.
The point isn't that DOD thinks the files are going to disappear, and it doesn't matter anyway since the purpose isn't to "disarm Americans" or "keep the files out of the hands of Americans" or some other utter garbage.
There are treaties and various arms control export restrictions (ITAR) at stake, and US-based corporations or entities cannot provide arms in violation of these constructs. If this sort of thing is on the Pirate Bay or elsewhere, DOD trade control doesn't care.
Then you have made an NFA weapon. You will need a tax stamp and lots of paperwork. It will take about 6-8 months for you to get that approval.
Not getting such paperwork will mean you lose the right to own weapons and get to spend many years in a correctional facility.
It's treason to plot the violent overthow of your own government.
Trash talk is hardly a plot. Absent specific and concrete plans to do what you say, there can't be any charges for what he says. Otherwise we'll have abandoned Freedom of Speech, at which point the overthrow would be a good idea.
It's treason to plot the violent overthow of your own government.
That may be the case... However. Let me introduce to to a little thing we call US History.
You don't need high grade smokeless powder.
Old fashioned black powder is fine. You can use it in handguns and many rifle cartridges. Modern guns would tolerate it fine. Many of what we consider modern cartridges were originally black powder. Gas operated semi-autos will be the only real problem. More cleaning would be needed of course, but again not a huge issue. Many modernish rounds are still corrosive, like all the old russian ammo.
Not sure what you mean by modern black powder, all black powder is considered outdated. I guess some might call pyrodex or other similar black powder replacements that. Maybe you meant modern guns powder.
You're assuming this wasn't part of the plan.
What pushes his ideology farther along the path, puttering away in semi-obscurity on his website, or invoking the full speed and fury of the internet's anti-censorship reflexes and spreading these files so far and wide they'll be easily available forever?
...to become a bit more ubiquitous before we start alarming politicians into making it illegal by using it to manufacture weapons?
We don't want 3D printing to become "isn't that how people make plastic guns?" to the lay public. It's too important of a technology, and given how potentially disruptive it is to the business models of a lot of large companies with a shit ton of money, you can bet that people are already talking about how to get rid of it.
So please, if you must design guns for 3D printers, keep the designs private until the public is familiar enough with the technology that they won't buy the alarmist "O NOES, GUNS" excuse that politicians will invariably use to keep people from buying 3D printers.
Its about preventing the next guy from ever appearing out of fear.
You know... bullets DO trip metal detectors and show up on X-rays.
Unless you're planning on beating somebody to death with your plastic gun, it's going to be detected.
Here's the direct download link to all of their published files...
http://defcad.org/stl/zip/DefDist_DEFCAD_MEGA_PACK_v4.2_(Saito).zip
Slashdot Valentines Beta Massacre: iT WORKED! The boycotts killed Beta!!
I agree with this and it's annoying to someone who actively shoots on a regular basis and no longer can. I used to buy a brick of .22LR every couple months and at least 100 rounds of 9mm & .40 every month. I even gave up my range membership this year. No sense in spending $300 when there's no ammo to shoot. And I have a feeling that the ammo that is going to be produced this year is already spoken for by the panic buyers as people like me decide that maybe the next time we see ammo available at decent prices we should stock up in case of more panic.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
The limits we set on the constitution are chains we put on ourselves. No matter how dangerous you think guns are... or the ability to make them easily... or even terrorists... None of them even approach the dangers of a government unconstrained by a constitution. Hundreds, maybe thousands may die as a result of unconstrained gun rights, I'll not argue that with you. But compare that to the Governments of Germany, Russia, Vietnam, and many others who've murder hundreds of millions of people, tortured even more. Committed genocide, destabilized all of humanity for decades... all because due to lack restraints on government and legal chains put on free people.
An armed citizen may kill a few dozen, but government could kill the world.
You do realize the "clear and present danger" test was originally created to justify jailing people for protesting against WWI, right? If George W. Bush had arrested everyone who protested the Iraq War, would you have been fine with that?
Thankfully, Schenck v. United States was overruled by Brandenburg v. Ohio, in favor of the imminent lawless action test, although that doesn't stop ignorant people who think watching a few episodes of Law & Order makes them constitutional scholars from bringing it up over and over.
Never heard of plastic bullets have you?
Never heard of plastic casings, or gunpowder free guns...
C'mon, man. Don't let your biases cloud your judgement.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
United States Department of State
Bureau of Political-Military Affairs
Offense of Defense Trade Controls Compliance
May 08, 2013
In reply letter to DTCC Case: 13-0001444
[Cody Wilson's address redacted]
Dear Mr. Wilson,
The Department of State, Bureau of Political Military Affairs, Office of Defense Trade Controls Compliance, Enforcement Division (DTCC/END) is responsible for compliance with and civil enforcement of the Arms Export Control Act (22 U.S.C. 2778) (AECA) and the AECA’s implementing regulations, the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (22 C.F.R. Parts 120-130) (ITAR). The AECA and the ITAR impose certain requirements and restrictions on the transfer of, and access to, controlled defense articles and related technical data designated by the United States Munitions List (USML) (22 C.F.R. Part 121).
The DTCC/END is conducting a review of technical data made publicly available by Defense Distributed through its 3D printing website, DEFCAD.org, the majority of which appear to be related to items in Category I of the USML. Defense Distributed may have released ITAR-controlled technical data without the required prior authorization from the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC), a violation of the ITAR.
Technical data regulated under the ITAR refers to information required for the design, development, production, manufacture, assembly, operation, repair, testing, maintenance or modification of defense articles, including information in the form of blueprints, drawings, photographs, plans, instructions or documentation. For a complete definition of technical data, see 120.10 of the ITAR. Pursuant to 127.1 of the ITAR, it is unlawful to export any defense article or technical data for which a license or written approval is required without first obtaining the required authorization from the DDTC. Please note that disclosing (including oral or visual disclosure) or tranferring technical data to a foreign person, whether in the United States or abroad, is considered an export under 120.17 of the ITAR.
The Department believes Defense Distributed may not have established the proper jurisdiction of the subject technical data. To resolve this matter officially, we request that Defense Distributed submit Commodity Jurisdiction (CJ) determination requests for the following selection of data files available on DEFCAD.org, and any other technical data for which Defense Distributed is unable to determine proper jurisdiction:
1.Defense Distributed Liberator pistol
2..22 electric
3.125mm BK-14M high-explosive anti-tank warhead
4.5.56/.223 muzzle brake
5.Springfield XD-40 tactical slide assembly
6.Sound Moderator – slip on
7.“The Dirty Diane” 1/2-28 to 3/4-16 STP S3600 oil filter silencer adapter
8.12 gauge to .22 CB sub-caliber insert
9.Voltlock electronic black powder system
10.VZ-58 sight
DTCC/END requests that Defense Distributed submits its CJ requests within three weeks of the receipt of this letter and notify this office of the final CJ determinations. All CJ requests must be submitted electronically through an online application using the DS-4076 Commodity Jurisdiction Request Form. The form, guidance for submitting CJ requests, and other relevant information such as a copy of the ITAR can be found on DDTC’s website at http://www.pmddtc.state.gov./
Until the Department provides Defense Distributed with the final CJ determinations, Defense Distributed should treat the above technical data as ITAR-controlled. This means that all such data shoudl be removed form public access immediately. Defense Distributed should also review the remainder of the data made public on its website to determine whether any additional data may be similarly controlled and proceed according to ITAR requirements.
Additionally, DTCC/END requests information about the procedures Defense Distributed follows to d
You really have no idea how bullets work, do you? The metal casings are for the bullets, not the guns. If you attempt to make a bullet with a plastic casing (you can't buy them), it will fail on the first shot. Not the second shot, not the third, the first. If you use plastic casings on a bullet, it will explode and you will fail. No debate.
Don't have to go through the trouble and expense of creating a gun (and ammo) that's invisible to x-ray and metal detectors. Just make a cheap, throw away slingshot with a couple of marbles and you have the equivalent of a silenced zip gun that's invisible to detectors, for all of about $10. If you can stash some ball bearings inside an obvious metallic object (metal pen, etc...) now you've got high density rounds that will do a through-and-through on someones head or torso. The people of Okinawa learned during Japanese occupations that effective weapons don't have to be complex.
When you want something built, come see me. If you want correct grammar and spelling, get a F*ing liberal arts student.
Not voting is voting to be a sheep.
It never ceases to amaze me how people are able to seize on the Amendments to justify their own short-sighted, stupid, destructive, extremist and anarchist hankerings.
Of course there are limits to how far you can push your first-amendment rights; there have to be. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution and scroll down to Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes who formulated the clear and present danger test for free speech cases.
Thing is, Holmes was wrong in that case.
It never ceases to amaze me how statist asshole pigs are quick to throw the constitution in the garbage to further their own fucking lust for power and oppression.
Well actually, it doesn't amaze me at all. This is just the same old millennia-old piggish agenda that is built into their rotten carcass.
Someone needs to FOIA all records of communication between Senator Chuck Schumer's office and the U.S. State Department for the last month. $5 says he requested this.
I know that you're all young whippersnappers who should get off my damn lawn, but does nobody remember the RSA Perl T-Shirts from Joel Furr from back in 1995? Yeah, yeah, most of you weren't out of kindergarten, whatever.
Basically, the shirts had RSA as implemented in 3 lines of unreadable-even-for-perl code, which at the time was illegal to export in machine-readable format (Thanks, ITAR!). I believe there were multiple variations, including barcode versions for extra-crunchy machine-readability and at least one person who attempted to turn himself into a munition by getting it tattooed on. Later on there was a similar movement around DeCSS (not "munitions" related); I still have at least one of the shirts from that.
Seems to me that this is pretty clearly in the same general category.
Oh, and "damn kids"
fencepost
just a little off
http://thepiratebay.sx/search/defcad/0/99/0
ITAR also says that exporting blueprints and technical data related to an item requires an export permit in the same way that exporting the item does.
And this puts the ITAR rules in direct conflict with the First Amendment. Guess which wins: The Constitution, or a law?
This government action has just brought the conflict into scope for litigation and created a person with the necessary standing to bring the suit.
He's a law student, too.
(Also a self-proclaimed "anarchist libertarian, which I think is a slap at some of the recent anti-libertarian mouth-foaming among the Lamestream Media).
There are several well-funded (mainly by millions of gunnies' individual contributions) organizations whose charter includes supporting such suits. They've had considerable success lately - such as DC v. Heller (confirming 2nd Amendment protects an individual right) and McDonald v. Chicago ("incorporating" it, i.e. applying it to the states and their subdivisions.)
I think the government just opened themselves up to another 2nd Amendment suit. B-)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way