Firefox 21 Arrives

An anonymous reader writes "Mozilla on Tuesday officially launched Firefox 21 for Windows, Mac, Linux, and Android. Improvements include the addition of multiple social providers on the desktop as well as open source fonts on Android. In the changelog, the company included an interesting point that's worth elaborating on: 'Preliminary implementation of Firefox Health Report.' Mozilla has revealed that FHR so far logs 'basic health information' about Firefox: time to start up, total running time, and number of crashes. Mozilla says the initial report is pretty simple but will grow 'in the coming months.' You can get it now from Mozilla."

Comments

Firebug is awesome

[schneidafunk]

Firebug is a good reason to use it. I don't really understand your justification for not testing web design in Firefox, considering it has a decent following.

Re:Firebug is awesome

[master_kaos]

while this is true, I do find firebug easier to use.

Re:Firebug is awesome

[ddd0004]

If your development involves working with cookies, Firebug totally beats the Chrome development tools. With Firebug, I can edit a cookie with a click, filter them, set breakpoints on the cookie so you can see when it is modified. Chrome pretty much lets me view them and delete them individually and that's it. Chrome development tools are still very useful, but I think Firebug totally outclasses it.

Re:Firebug is awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

Firebug does things Chrome's inspector doesn't do, and vice versa. It's worth having both tools to test with, especially if you work on a variety of projects. It's hardly worth getting "religious" about it, because both environments are free. But I suppose if you MUST pretend one is better than the other, go ahead.

Re:Firebug is awesome

[pspahn]

A bit moot, but in general, web developers need to be familiar with the debug tools provided by all of the browsers. If you use Firebug mainly, there are times when you'll need to use CDT (Chrome Dev Tools) instead, or the incredibly feature rich and UI-tastic IE debugging stuff.

So yeah, not only did we get stuck having to support various browsers on the front-end; in order to do so, we are forced to learn multiple development platforms as well.

I mainly use CDT, but I will attest that IE's debug tools are used the second most frequently.

Re:Firebug is awesome

[anasciiman]

Every time this topic comes up, someone like you mentions how you can disable every single "spying" thing... but fail to provide specific details about how/where to do so. Occasionally, they'll tell you to "google it" or "look it up yourself." I find that very curious.

Re:Meh

[0racle]

And yet you felt the need to comment on it. It would appear you care about Firefox more than you let on.

Re:multiple social providers on the desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

I updated after reading this, and I have no idea what a "social provider on the desktop" means. I see no change in Firefox.

Re:multiple social providers on the desktop

[i kan reed]

I don't have any social features in my firefox. What? Do you just install every plugin every website you visit suggests to you?

Oookkkaaayyy....

[magic maverick]

You know, I feel like I only just upgraded to Firefox 20. In fact, there hasn't even been a 20.1 yet. I really like Firefox, I do. Some of the new web development tools (which I've only just discovered) are really nice. But, to be frank, apart from those, I can't tell the difference between 18, and 20. And looking at the changelog, I can't see anything that says, "I'm a major new version that breaks compatibility with previous versions".

So, I want to ask again (and I'm beating a horse that is not only dead, but buried, and decomposed, with only a few bones and other hard items left), what's the point of these fast track updates?

Many of the new features (e.g. the web developer tools and the Social API (only useful for people who actually use "social websites", i.e. not me)) would be better off as plugins. Instead, Mozilla should be focusing on things that actually improve both the user experience and the safety of browsing the web. So, perhaps blocking third party cookies by default, building in a simplified RequestPolicy-like tool (with a blacklist of ad networks and trackers), and maybe even improve the shitty bookmark system. But no, they want to improve the Social API.

I'll continue to use Firefox, it's better than the alternatives. But it's the plugins that really make it better, not the superfast increase the numbers (and hide useful UI - luckily that can be fixed with plugins).

Re:Oookkkaaayyy....

[tlhIngan]

But, to be frank, apart from those, I can't tell the difference between 18, and 20. And looking at the changelog, I can't see anything that says, "I'm a major new version that breaks compatibility with previous versions".

FF20 added that horrendous download box, for starters...

Of course, you can revert it back to the more sane old download list by setting browser.download.useToolkitUI to TRUE.

It isn't that hard to miss in FF20. Not sure what UI breakage they did in 21, though.

Re:Oookkkaaayyy....

[magic maverick]

The first number says "I'm incompatible with previous versions", which in Firefox's case, probably should mean with regards to plugins and extensions. So, if there's no need to increase it, don't! The second number, that's for additional functionality, and various changes that don't break compatibility, and the third number is for patches (bug fixes).

It's also plausible to upgrade the first number for major rewrites, or other major changes in the software's life cycle. A change from a SGML/XML based renderer to a HTML5 based one could justify a major version increase.

But it's "keeping up with the Jones'" versioning isn't it. Chrome has auto-updating and silly numbers, and so Firefox needs to have them to; to keep being "relevant".

Re:Oookkkaaayyy....

[Cochonou]

There is supposed to be an important new feature in Firefox 21 (which was not talked about in the summary): h.264 playback with system codecs enabled by default. It is present in Firefox 20, but needed to be enabled manually through about:config.

Re:Oookkkaaayyy....

[hduff]

Thanks for the "browser.download.useToolkitUI" tip! The new download box was truly horrendous.

What good is a browser that makes you use about:config to undo all the "improvements"?

Re:Oookkkaaayyy....

[The Mighty Buzzard]

You know, you're absolutely right. I'm swearing off Firefox. Which browser did you say was as user-configurable as Firefox again?

Until Mozilla's douchebaggery rises to the level of anyone else's, we're all going to sit right here and take the ass-fuckings Moz keeps handing out every few months.

Re:Oookkkaaayyy....

[ssam]

gstreamer support has been there (but disabled by default) since fedora 14. on gentoo you just add gstreamer to your use flags and you can watch h.264.

Re:Oookkkaaayyy....

[KingMotley]

The firefox PDF reader is horrible!

Re:Oookkkaaayyy....

[tlhIngan]

However, it's rare to find something with Firefox that can't be changed via a simple plugin or even just a setting in about:config.

There's one that's been bugging me since 14 or 15 though - autocomplete no longer autocompletes deep URLs - it only goes up to the domain. Which is annoying if you have a particularly favorite long URL (like a search), or access a server on another port (no, it doesn't autocomplete ports, either). Sure, the one you want is there - just down arrow enter, but that's annoying.

Haven't found a way to revert it back to autocomplete from history yet including the full URL.

Re:Oookkkaaayyy....

[Trogre]

I don't get why all the hate for something as inane as a download box.

Now removing the protocol from URLs, that is downright irresponsible though it like many other regressions can thankfully be reversed in about:config (TrimURLs=false in this case).

Other regressions are not so easily fixed; the braindead decision to remove the status bar for example needs an extension (status4evar) to fix.

Re:multiple social providers on the desktop

[JustAnotherIdiot]

Remember when firefox wasn't trying to complete in some stupid version race, and just tried to be the best browser it could possibly be?
I miss that too.

Re:No. .Just No.

[_bug_]

What are your concerns with Firefox 21 versus 17?

Is it the social api? That was introduced in 17 so you already have it. And it can be disabled in about:config, just search for "social.enabled".

Is it the health report? You can disable that as well either through the advanced tab under preferences or through about.config, just search for "healthreport".

Does anyone honestly care?

[JustAnotherIdiot]

I remember the huge fanfare when Firefox 4 came out, we were on 3.x.x for ages.
That was what, 2 years ago now I think? And so now we've since had 17 new "versions", it maybe deserves to be 3, at best. My point here? /., we don't need an article every time a new version is released. You don't do this with chrome either, and for good reason.
They come out too frequently, with too few changes, and frankly very few people honestly care at this point.

Re: Does anyone honestly care?

[BambarbiaKirgudu]

In some situations 21 vs u21 matters.

Re:No. .Just No.

[smooth wombat]

Why should one have to disable these things? Why are they not turned off by default? Isn't that the mantra of the FOSS community, "Let me decide!"?

Or are we giving the Mozilla group a pass despite their continuing plunge into bloat and unnecessary cruft because they're Mozilla?

Re:Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

He's passionately apathetic.

Re:multiple social providers on the desktop

[raburton]

> They combined Download and Web History. So since FF20, when you clear one, they both go.

Really? Mine doesn't do that. I've cleared my download history many times and still have >6 months of web history.

Re:multiple social providers on the desktop

[Barefoot Monkey]

I just cleared my download history from Firefox 21. My browser history is still there.

Re:We need an alternative/fork

[rudy_wayne]

I am seriously tired of all the new crap that they keep adding to FF. On new installations I must spend a good amount of time turning stuff off. Most of the features I turn off would be better in an extension or at leasr off by default.

That's the irony of Firefox. They remove features that people actually find useful, forcing people to create extensions to get the feature back, while at the same time add new useless features that should be implemented as extensions.

Re:furst

[K. S. Kyosuke]

You do realize that you've just wasted a perfectly good opportunity to write "Twenty-first post!"?

Re:Meh

[buddyglass]

I don't even test new web designs in Firefox; only IE, Safari and Chrome.

You might consider starting, since FF's 20% market share is approximately equal to the combined share of Safari and Chrome.

Re:No. .Just No.

[raburton]

> What are your concerns with Firefox 21 versus 17?
> Is it the social api? Is it the health report?

I don't think it's anything this sensible, I think it's just the version number. I don't really understand what issue people have with it, but that seems to be what's exciting most people. If they just versioned the new releases as point releases there wouldn't be half as many comments to this story. I think having mostly small incremental changes in new full version numbers has really upset some people's sense of normal software conventions and their brains have melted.

Re:No. .Just No.

[pLnCrZy]

Why should one have to disable these things? Why are they not turned off by default? Isn't that the mantra of the FOSS community, "Let me decide!"?

If you can disable them, how are you not given a choice?

Your disagreeing with their default state is not equivalent to not having a choice.

Still no support for TLS 1.1 / 1.2

[Aethedor]

And the only thing I really want in Firefox is *still* not there. But instead, more crap features.

Version 21

[loufoque]

Finally allowed to get drunk.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

You should consider installing the ESR version if you don't want to deal with the rapid upgrades. It is currently version 17.0.6. The "ESR channel" gets only security patches, no new features, until it reaches end of life after about a year, at which point you upgrade to the next ESR (Extended Support Release). Firefox version 3, 10, 17 (and future 24) are ESRs.

See http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/faq

Re:Update Fatigue

[hduff]

You're not. Especially when the first "improvement" to be mentioned is "the addition of multiple social providers."

I read that as "multiple social diseases" and now it makes more sense to me.

Revert to old download window

[InvisiBill]

FYI, you can revert to the old download window by setting the browser.download.useToolkitUI option to true in about:config. https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/955204

Firefox, caught between two worlds

[TheSkepticalOptimist]

One world is to implement Chrome like versioning.

The other world is to implement a Microsoft like need for making a grand entrance.

It's just a web browser, nobody gives a rat's ass what it does, that is why Google updates silently in the background without fuss.

It's the 21st century, web browsers do not need press releases anymore just like you don't need someone on the street corner announcing every hour of the day.

Now I feel old

[NoImNotNineVolt]

It seems like it was only yesterday that Firefox 3 was released to great fanfare after years and years of refinement.
To think, Firefox has come seven times farther now! Amazing!

On a more serious note, what the fuck is a "social provider on the desktop"? A philanthropist that runs in the root window?

Developer Changelog

[TheCycoONE]

As usual, most of the important changes are only listed in the Developer changelog: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox/Releases/21

Highlights include:
  element support
scoped attribute support for (allows a stylesheet to only apply to a particular element and it's children)
No more E4X
  improvements

Re:multiple social providers on the desktop

[caspy7]

Firefox just comes with the Social API, as with addon APIs, you have to install something, otherwise it's just potential.

Re:Meh

[Blaskowicz]

What auto-update? it only updates when I type apt-get upgrade, and it does so silently.

Re:multiple social providers on the desktop

[HideyoshiJP]

If you click the download arrow, then click "Show All Downloads," it'll bring the Downloads History window up. You can then just right-click and click "Clear Downloads." It'll keep your web history. The only difference is it's now many more clicks than in the olden days. Kind of annoying, really.

Re:multiple social providers on the desktop

[OhSoLaMeow]

I liked it better when it was Mosaic and the other choices were ... nothing.

Re:multiple social providers on the desktop

[H0p313ss]

Firefox just comes with the Social API, as with addon APIs, you have to install something, otherwise it's just potential.

There you go again, bringing logic and reason to an emotional argument. Won't somebody think of the delusional paranoids!

Still on Firefox 8...

[Xenolith0]

Since Firefox has started their crazy version numbering, I've given up on upgrading. I use 27 different addons and perfectly configured to make my web browser do what I want. It is near impossible to do an upgrade without spending hours reconfiguring the addons, some of which need to be manually downloaded and have their "MaxVersion" incremented so they will install. Maybe in 6 more months when we reach Firefox 50 I'll give it a try, but until then. Firefox 8 all the way!

Application: Firefox 8.0 (20111104165243)
Total number of items: 27

- Active Stop Button 1.4.10
https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/active-stop-button/
- Adblock Plus 1.3.10
http://adblockplus.org/en/
- BetterPrivacy 1.68
http://nc.ddns.us/extensions.html
- ColorfulTabs 7.1
http://www.binaryturf.com/free-software/colorfultabs-for-firefox/
- Cookie Monster 1.1.0
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/cookie-monster/?src=api
- Copy Link Name 1.3.2
http://www.captaincaveman.nl/
- Download Statusbar 0.9.10
http://downloadstatusbarapp.com/
- DownloadHelper 4.9.14
http://www.downloadhelper.net/
- DownThemAll! 2.0.8
http://downthemall.net/
- Export Cookies 1.2
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/export-cookies/?src=api
- Find Toolbar Tweaks 3.0.0
http://homepage3.nifty.com/georgei/extension/ftt_en.html
- Firebug 1.8.4
http://www.getfirebug.com/
- Greasemonkey 0.9.13
http://www.greasespot.net/
- HeaderControlRevived 1.1
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/headercontrolrevived/?src=api
- Hide Caption Titlebar Plus 2.4.1
https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/13505/
- Menu Editor 1.2.7
http://menueditor.mozdev.org/
- Movable Firefox Button 1.4
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/movable-firefox-button/
- NoScript 2.1.7
http://noscript.net/
- OptimizeGoogle 0.78.2
http://www.optimizegoogle.com/
- RequestPolicy 0.5.27
http://www.requestpolicy.com/
- Screen Capture Elite 2.0.0.23
http://www.grizzlyape.com/
- Searchbastard 1.5.5
http://searchbastard.rosell.dk/
- SkipScreen 0.6.1.2

'somebody's a badass'

[globaljustin]

http://www.chromium.org/Home [chromium.org]

You're welcome

See, this isn't a response...and it sure as siht isn't a 'zinger' or a 'witty retort'

so the hell what, Cromium exists? That does not answer parent's point at all...

in fact, it actually proves you wrong and him right, if anything, b/c the link was to a Google product's homepage. exactly the kind of useless information the parent was bemoaning...

jeez way to prove his point for him