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House Bill Would Mandate Smart Gun Tech By U.S. Manufacturers

Lucas123 writes "U.S. Rep. John Tierney (D-Mass) is pushing a bill that would require all U.S. handgun manufacturers to include 'personalization technology' in their weapons. Tierney said he got the idea for The Personalized Handgun Safety Act of 2013 from the latest James Bond film, Skyfall. In it Bond escapes death when his handgun, which is equipped with technology that recognizes his fingerprints, becomes inoperable when a bad guy picks it up. 'This technology, however, isn't just for the movies — it's a reality,' Tierney said. Tierney pointed to a myriad of cases where the smart gun tech could prevent children from being harmed or killed in firearms accidents. Jim Wallace, executive director of the Massachusetts Gun Owners Action League, the official state association of the NRA, said he knows of no gun owners who would want smart gun technology on their weapons. Wallace said any technology that may impede the proper function of a weapon is a problem. He pointed to the fact that any integrated processor technology would also require a battery of some kind, which could pose a system failure if it lost power."

27 of 750 comments (clear)

  1. Movies are real! by Kreigaffe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Lawmakers have been introducing these bills since at least the mid-90s, with Judge Dredd being the first movie I'm aware of directly tied to it.

    The tech was not then, and is not now, possible. They're MOVIES. That's not REALITY.

    Our elected officials are dumber than you could possibly imagine.

    --
    ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
    1. Re:Movies are real! by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Funny
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      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Movies are real! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Its easy to make a trigger that doesn't fire when the wrong person holds it. Its harder to make one that also does fire all the time when you hold it.

    3. Re:Movies are real! by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Judge Dredd's gun 'executes' anybody else who tries to fire it. Are they going to implement that feature, too?

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      No sig today...
    4. Re:Movies are real! by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 5, Funny

      FTFY; some of us wised up to that some time ago, and thus only vote for third parties (if at all).

      Is that working out as well for you as my one-man air-travel boycott is for me?

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      I am not a crackpot.
    5. Re:Movies are real! by wagnerrp · · Score: 4, Informative

      Just how do you propose you do that. The trouble isn't about false positives or negatives in the mechanism. The trouble is that there is any mechanism at all. As the article mentioned, any "smart" weapon requires a processor, memory, and a battery to power it. Chances are you're also going to be replacing a mechanical trigger with an electronic one, so all your existing ammunition is useless. You're disconnecting the trigger from a spring-loaded hammer, and thus introducing a new failure point in a previously robust, mechanical system.

    6. Re:Movies are real! by jedidiah · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Regardless. Any policy driven technology adoption should be first forced upon the police and the military before it's forced on civilians. If a cop wouldn't want this technology then it's not something that anyone else should have forced on them either.

      Mandating that civilians can only own guns that don't work is just a transparent attempt to side step the law.

      Let cops and soldiers adopt this stuff first.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    7. Re:Movies are real! by gb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's the non gun owning liberals who propose this legislation. By definition they know nothing about guns. They never owned one and don't know how they work. This is not flame bait but it truth.

      This is trivially not true.

      Not owning a gun now does not imply never having owned a gun and neither statements imply not knowing how they work let alone the even more general statement about knowing nothering about guns.

      I suspect the number of people who know nothing about guns (at least counting those people who would qualify to vote in most democracies if they were citizens) is very small. If you want to make an argument that those proposing such legislation lack sufficient knwledge of the subject to do so competantly then that's just fine but making wild statements that are trivial to disprove doesn't exactly lend credibility.

    8. Re:Movies are real! by Firethorn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The technology is technically possible. However, I have a few points to make:
      1. Guns are currently purely mechanical. Adding ANYTHING electronic into the firing system is going to lower reliability. Remember, the most common police weapon(Glock) doesn't even have a manual safety switch. The recognition system would have to work 99.999999% of the time in a fraction of a second.
      2. When fired, the firearm itself suffers a large shock. One 9mm handgun weighs 770 grams, fires a 7.45 gram projectile at 390 m/s. Laws of physics means that every time the handgun is fired it suffers a shock sufficient to move it back at 3.8 m/s, or 14 km/hour. That is NASTY to electronics, it's roughly equivalent to being hit with a hammer. It's mean to mechanical parts as well, but at least we've had hundreds of years of engineering to fix the issues.
      3. Perhaps most critical, police officers are much more likely to be killed by their own weapon after it's been taken from them. 26 officers over 10 years. (or have others killed with their weapon if taken from them). Despite this, police organizations(departments, unions, professional) will campaign hard and long to exempt themselves from any such gun legislation. I believe that New Jersey already has a smart gun requirement on the books - but no gun manufacturer makes a firearm that meets the standard.
      4. The common figuring is a lot like that of DRM - a 'smart gun' will stop a non-authorized person only on a tactical, immediate basis. Criminals will be able to bypass any protections on a long term scale(IE days) if they successfully steal the weapon, making any 'smart guns' of limited protection.

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      I don't read AC A human right
    9. Re:Movies are real! by shaitand · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "I suspect the number of people who know nothing about guns (at least counting those people who would qualify to vote in most democracies if they were citizens) is very small."

      I find the vast majority of the population knows nearly nothing about guns. For example, I encounter very few people who realize that "assault weapon" is not an actual type of gun but rather a 100% political buzzword with no definition. Also on the political front, very few seem to have caught on to the gimmick statistic of "gun crime" and why it is meaningless if gun legislation impacts it. The number who understand gun safety, have significant actual hours logged with a gun, and understand gun physics and basic gun mechanics amount to very small handful over the years and all of them gun owners. The number of people who think a semi-automatic rifle is military grade weaponry is staggering. The number who know what semi-automatic actually means is disheartening.

    10. Re:Movies are real! by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's the non gun owning liberals who propose this legislation.

      For the record, I'm a non-gun owning liberal (though I've fired a few handguns, rifles and shotguns and have some minimal training) and I think this kind of legislation is dumb.

      Firearms are tools with a specific function and purpose. They need to work when they're suppose to work and it's the owner's responsibility to ensure they're safe otherwise. If you have children in your house, lock up your guns/ammunition and teach your children firearm safety when they're able to understand. If you can't do these things and/or you cannot operate your own weapon safely, don't own/carry firearms or come to terms that you and or your child may become Darwin Award winners.

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      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    11. Re:Movies are real! by losfromla · · Score: 4, Insightful

      good thing you posted AC.
      None of the items in your "reasonable argument" stop gun violence. One of them mitigates the damage from gun violence (bulletproof vest) and the other substitutes one violence for another (gun-spotting automatic defense turrets). I am not entirely sure how you came to the brilliant idea that gun-spotting automatic defense turrets are "reasonable" though, if you are up to it, please explain how they are reasonable from a technology, cost, and political feasibility perspective. I myself wouldn't be too comfortable walking down a street with these automated snipers looking for gun-like objects on my person, etc. Bulletproof vests are reasonable? Like, we all put ours on in the morning when we wake up and wear them all day? Kids too? The same kids that get tired carrying their lunch box home from school?

      Dude! (I assume dude since we're on slashdot) I think you need to recalibrate your reasonableness meter.

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      Only I can judge you.
    12. Re:Movies are real! by Kreigaffe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That would defeat the purpose, as most people would just yank the batteries out immediately. Give me a tool that works reliably, that I can have confidence in -- and let *me* worry about keeping it safe. I don't want a tool that will PROBABLY work, hopefully, that I still have to worry about keeping safe anyway because it's a damned gun and if you're not worrying about keeping it safe you don't deserve to have it.

      Plus all this mess actually isn't trying to add anything to guns, it's all just gun prohibition in the disguise of technology that is not available or possible.

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      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
    13. Re:Movies are real! by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 4, Informative

      Interestingly enough, they (liberals) count suicide as a "gun crime", or "gun violence" or whatever, so they can vastly inflate the numbers of actual gun crimes. Some 60% of all gun deaths are suicide. Another interesting fact, suicides in the US, per capita, is very similar (statistical blip) to countries with strict gun controls, which only prove that suicidal people will kill themselves, regardless of method.

      All of this doesn't matter, because "guns are scary" (tm)

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    14. Re:Movies are real! by girlintraining · · Score: 5, Informative

      You willing to bet your liberty in a (snip)

      No, he probably just looked up the statistics on the number of people that have been killed with their own gun. This is why police officers are trained to always keep their hand on their weapon during a traffic stop or during any other time when they're questioning someone who isn't in custody, and why once their gun has been drawn, they typically move away and don't holster it again until backup arrives and a second officer can approach and subdue. The risk is very real.

      self-defense case on microcircuitry that is never checked or maintained

      Your computer has tons of microcircuitry. Far more than this technology would require. If your life depended on being able to complete a call to the police using a VoIP product, do you think you could do it as fast as with a regular, land-line phone, assuming you had the software already installed and configured?

      The fact that something isn't checked or maintained is not an indictment against its reliability. Maintenance usually happens on a schedule -- days, weeks, years, even decades. You don't just assume your car is going to run out of oil because you haven't checked the oil since the last time you started it -- you know that as long as you check it every 7,000 miles, or whatever the manual says, you do not have to worry about that. Why would a gun be different?

      a lens that might be obstructed or smeared,

      You know, you're working this technology all crabbed. A police officer could be issued a gun with a RF component in it that operated around 800 MHz or so. At this frequency, the signal clings to a person's skin and clothing. A low-power, short-range transmitter, perhaps embedded in the officer's radio, could complete the circuit. Thus if the officer was not in physical contact with the gun, it wouldn't fire.

      Biometric identification isn't the only way of securing a weapon.

      and the assumption that if there isn't a perfect picture, you're hiding some kind of guilt?

      That's a social and legal problem, not a technical problem. Let's try and keep on topic here; This is a feasibility study, not an exhaustive analysis of "what if" scenarios...

      "Mr. Johnson, how do we know you didn't put your blood all over the end of that gun before your wife used it to murder a poor, helpless transient you two had lured to your home for deviant sex? There's no picture. You must be trying to hide something."

      Strike my last; ... not an exhaustive analysis of conspiracy theories.

      Now, as has become increasingly common on Slashdot (I miss the old days), nothing in what I've said is either for or against whatever political cause or position you're advocating. It is simply, and purely, an engineering analysis. What Congress is, or isn't doing, or whatever your political beliefs are, or even mine, are irrelevant here. This about answering IF we can do this with the technology available today, not should we do it.

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      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    15. Re:Movies are real! by Kielistic · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I know I'm tempting the flame gods here but you never explained what was a lie. Per capita are the suicide rates not very similar? Are you claiming that suicide attempts are similar and with easier access to guns they are more often successful? Because the GP seemed to be claiming that suicides (I would interpret that as successful (bad wording?) ) occur at similar rates regardless of easy access to guns. Which is in direct opposition to your claim and your statistics don't actually have anything to do with that.

      Going off like a lose cannon does not help your argument.

  2. My thoughts on the matter by MAXOMENOS · · Score: 5, Insightful
    • 1) The Democrats couldn't pass a less odious measure in a Democratic-controlled Senate. Good luck passing that in a Republican-controlled House.
    • 2) I'll happily put this on my own guns after the police have used it for five years on theirs, and have come to accept it as a reliable technology.
    • 3) All in all, Congressman Tierney did this, in all likelihood, to help solidify his re-election next year. Since he got the press he wanted, I congratulate him now on his impending victory.
    1. Re:My thoughts on the matter by fche · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "I'll happily put this on my own guns after the police have used it for five years on theirs," ... or all persons protecting the good congressman.

    2. Re:My thoughts on the matter by SJHillman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It seems to me that police need it more than private citizens, as they spend more time around criminals who are likely to try and grab the gun.

  3. A Better Idea by CanHasDIY · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How about we actually fucking teach kids about guns, how they work, and what they're used for? That would do a hell of a lot more to curtail gun-related deaths, and without the (un)intended side effect of rendering personal protection weapons useless by legislative fiat.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    1. Re:A Better Idea by firewrought · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How about we actually fucking teach kids about guns, how they work, and what they're used for? That would do a hell of a lot more to curtail gun-related deaths

      While we're at it, can we get Hollywood celebrities to hold guns properly on film? Don't stick your finger into the trigger guard until you're ready to destroy something.

      Seriously. I understand that Hollywood movies aren't gun safety tutorials and that, for instance, Will Smith has to whip out his gun and use it to mock-threaten his daughter's boyfriend in Bad Boys 2, but if these celebrities kept their fingers pointed down the barrel instead of resting on the trigger, it might make a difference when some drunk dumbass decides to imitate them. Drives me nuts whenever I see this on film/TV.

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      -1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
    2. Re:A Better Idea by icebike · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because the right will complain about schools brainwashing our kids into thinking guns are dangerous, and the left will scream apoplectic about schools brainwashing our kids into thinking guns could be safe.

      Bullshit. Gun Safety training would gain instant support among the right, as well as any thinking person.

      The younger the better. There are far too many stories about kids thinking they have a toy and killing a sibling, all caused by the big left wing no-no against teaching kids anything about guns, or even so much as drawing a picture of one in school. Its the whole security by obscurity argument all over again in the physical world.

      The right already knows guns are dangerous, and that every gun is treated like a loaded gun, and have been teaching this to their kids since they were old enough to walk. Its the delusional left who believe if we can just hide the existence of guns the whole problem will go away.

      I took gun safety courses in grade school. We fired .22 short single shot rifles IN the School Basement during gun safety class. (4th or 5th grade as I recall). Of course by this time it was old hat to me since I had been hunting with my parents for many years by that time.

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      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  4. Re:But I like guns! by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We already HAVE passed the point of sensible gun control. First point to make, violent crime is falling in this country, including crime where the criminal used a gun. Second point to make, perhaps if the government enforced the gun laws already on the books, we could determine which ones actually work, which ones should be repealed and whether there is any reason to create new ones.
    Since Obama took office, the percentage of violations of current background check laws which were prosecuted has fallen.

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    The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  5. One word against this idea: gloves ... in winter. by sehlat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Cops in Minnesota in the dead of a winter snowstorm are just gonna LOVE this tech.

  6. When people who've never seen it write the rules by raymorris · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yep, this is what happens when people who hate guns, and so have never touched a gun, probably never seen a gun, think they are gun experts and should be writing the rules and regulations about how they should be manufactured, sold, and used.

    I'm not a doctor or pharmacist, so I don't have any opinion on proper methods manufacture, store, or otherwise handle various classes of prescription drugs.
    I have no idea what regulations make sense. It would be STUPID of me to comment on how a pharmacy must be run since I don't know anything about the subject.

    Why is it that people who have no knowledge at all, people who don't know the difference between a machine gun and a pistol, want to decide on gun regulations?
    This is a fact - anti-gunners, including congress-critters, REGULARLY confuse an automatic (machine gun) with a semi-automatic (pistol). They claim to be
    trying to "ban automatic weapons" (machine guns), but their bill bans pistols and varmint guns, which are semi-automatic.

  7. Common Laws and Common Sense by cervesaebraciator · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have never owned, held or fired a gun, that also included my family and friends and NONE of us have seen a reason to do otherwise.

    That's part of the problem with this debate, indeed with our current system. That is, not that you personally are unfamiliar with guns and do not have a use for them. You have a life of your own and come from a different culture than I do, and I do not blame or begrudge you that. The problem with the debate is the demand that you and I should be able to come up with a uniform legal system which both of us find agreeable and neither of us find oppressive. You say, " A child never has to hold a gun for any reason". I grew up in a culture where not having guns around is unthinkable, where the chief means of ensuring gun safety is teaching children to respect them, where we never touched them without permission partly because we knew what they could do and partly because we knew with supervision we would be allowed. I was considered old enough to shoot a gun for the first time while I was still young enough that my grandfather stood behind me lest the kick should knock me down.

    Your experience is as alien to me as mine is to you. Put simply, lacking common experience we do not share and cannot share any notion of common sense. In practical terms, a country the size of ours is many different cultures, foreign to one another to a greater or lesser extent, all under one polity. I would have subsidiarity be a guiding principle in this debate. Common laws ought only to be made on a level where there is a shared common sense.

  8. Re:Just wow by LF11 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, that is foolish as fuck. People like you are why so many children die in gun accidents. Congratulations, you are part of the problem.

    Here is why: A majority of US households have guns. While many guns are stored safely, many are not. By failing to educate your children about gun safety, you make them susceptible to accidental death or injury when they play with real guns someone finds in a neighbor's house.

    The NRA puts out gun safety material for children which is quite appropriate. "Stop! Don't touch! Leave the area! Tell an adult!" Even if you can't stand guns, hate guns, and would never touch one or want one or use one, you owe it to your children to teach them this much.

    LF