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$30,000 For a Developer Referral?

itwbennett writes "Are good developers really that hard to find? Cambridge, MA-based inbound marketing company HubSpot seems to think so. The company has upped its developer referral bonus from $10,000 to $30,000 — and you don't have to be an employee to get in on the deal. Beats a free puppy. What has your experience been with referral bonuses?"

28 of 189 comments (clear)

  1. Recruiter Commision by Frankie70 · · Score: 5, Informative

    If the company goes through a recruiter, they pay around 20-25% of the employee's annual salary to the recruiter (if the employee sticks around for 'x' months). So this may be reasonable for the company for a job which pays 100K to 150K annually.

    1. Re:Recruiter Commision by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      2-3 months salary is normal around here for recruiter pay (Holland). But recruiters are rather vilified and not trusted. Most companies, large and small, I know don't work with independent recruiters. Don't trust them further than you can throw them.

    2. Re:Recruiter Commision by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 2

      Yep certainly had the Agencies cut taken off my agreed salary for three months before (I did complain). No mention of what Language/ALM they work with. Given that I know hundreds of Devs (Some of whom already live in commuting distance) it would be nice to know what skills they are looking for.

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    3. Re:Recruiter Commision by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 2

      The recruiter getting 20-25% of the employee's annual salary matches my experience, from both sides. Referral bonuses of $30,000 is unheard: I've seen plenty of referral bonuses offered of $500 to $1000 in the last year for work involving six figure salaries, including contracting work of more than six months duration.

      Both Cambridge, MA and Dublin, Ireland are very expensive places to live with some of the highest developer salaries I've seen offered. My colleagues and I have gotten recruiting calls for both areas with salaries consistently over $100,000/year, even during the recent bank crisis. But if you factor in high housing costs, very high vehicle costs, or the additional housing cost of easy commuting access, they become much less appealing.

    4. Re:Recruiter Commision by FreeUser · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yep certainly had the Agencies cut taken off my agreed salary for three months before (I did complain). No mention of what Language/ALM they work with. Given that I know hundreds of Devs (Some of whom already live in commuting distance) it would be nice to know what skills they are looking for.

      huh!?!

      I've worked with recruiters for years, in Chicago, New York, and London to name just three places. I've never, ever, had my pay docked because of the recruiter's fee. Never. And every job I've had beyond the first out of college has been through a recruiter (and they've all been excellent jobs, on both sides of the pond).

      The employer should always pay the recruiter's fee. You as an employee/candidate should never see the fee, probably won't know what the fee was, and shouldn't necessarily even be aware of the fee (other than in the most hypothetical sense).

      Having your salary docked for three months...that's just crazy. The only instance I know of where that's the norm is with talent agents in the media...a journalist I know at a New York radio station pays n% of his salary to his talent agent, but that's an entirely different can of worms. In technical recruiting, that should never happen. If your employer docked you, I'd say your employer is more than a little suspect and I'd get your CV/resume out. If your recruiter is collecting from you, then you've been suckered into the wrong kind of recruiter.

      --
      The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
    5. Re:Recruiter Commision by CastrTroy · · Score: 2

      I really don't see much wrong with home inspectors, Provided you can find a good one. Ask friends (and possibly your real estate agent, if you trust them) for referrals, and talk to a few before selecting one. While they may not be perfect, they certainly know a lot more than I do about houses, and will know what problems to look for. I'm sure there's plenty of bad ones out there, but you can basically say that about any trade/profession.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    6. Re:Recruiter Commision by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      Mine missed major issues.
      Main line had tree roots and the issue was apparent if you ran the water in two locations at once. So shower and sink near washing machine, for example, the water backed up into basement or at least flowed out very slowly. The furnace short cycled and had a cracked heat exchanger, which a carbon monoxide detector should have found.

      There were also many minor issues like the fact that the kitchen sink drain was improperly repaired and leaking. Also everything was done on the cheap by that last owner. So I have had to replace failing sink/toilet/fridge water lines and the like with steel or copper. These minor items are my fault for not noting during the walk through, but it would have been nice if he mentioned it.

    7. Re:Recruiter Commision by Quirkz · · Score: 2

      The only folks worse are home inspectors.

      I had an awesome home inspector. He found all sorts of details, down to "this faucet drain doesn't quite close right" and "the window sills are kind of sticky and you'll probably want them cleaned." I've been in the house five years now and can't think of anything important he overlooked. Maybe he's a rare find and I got lucky, as he's the only one I've ever used.

  2. If I refer myself by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 5, Funny

    Can I get $30k *and* the job?

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    1. Re:If I refer myself by tgd · · Score: 3, Informative

      Can I get $30k *and* the job?

      While you may have been joking, that was not at all uncommon during the dot com boom. You'd basically negotiate the recruiter's fees into the signing bonus and grab $60-$80k in signing bonuses. If you were a particularly shrewd negotiator, you'd get 1/3 up front, the second 1/3 after 90 days or something and the rest at 6 months.

      Those were the days ...

    2. Re:If I refer myself by tnk1 · · Score: 2

      He writes code to do that silly math for him.

  3. Re:Referral bonuses ? Seen them offered. by macson_g · · Score: 2, Funny

    I cashed in 5000 GBP for referral once. At the rate the US dollars are being printed currently, it should be equal to the amount mentioned in the article soon :)

  4. Of course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    The conclusion repeatedly reached by academic researchers in software engineering is that there is an 'order of magnitude' difference among good and mediocre developers, and good developers are perenially in short supply.

    So the answer is yes, it's absolutely worth the money.

    1. Re:Of course by Sperbels · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't think the adjective you're using is quite right. The word to use here is exceptional. The whole industry is plagued by this idea that only the superstars are any good, while the people who do the bulk of the grunt work are mediocre. Well, among those mediocre people are good, mediocre, and bad developers....and nobody seems to acknowledge that.

  5. Good employees are scarce and may get scarcer by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Yes, good developers are hard to find. Ditto good sysadmins, business analysts, project managers, architects, etc. In larger corporations there's a strong movement to work around that scarcity by compartimentalizing the jobs, turning the whole into an assembly line, also because good people are not only hard to find but harder to manage as well. Not that the people themselves are difficult, but in most cases a group of excellent people will not have a uniform set of skills, so making the most of them requires individual talent management and more complex work planning.

    What they end up with is sometimes called "predictable mediocrity". Just like having a mechanical assembly line, you'll have more control, easier planning and a predictable quality, at the expense of flexibility, innovation, sometimes cost, and excellence (your quality will be more predictable but I've rarely seen the average go up or even remain the same). What is also does is breed excellence out of the workplace: experts will be too expensive, they will not enjoy the nature of the work, and you will find it hard to offer a viable career path to talented workers. So I expect real talent to become even scarcer and more expensive.

    --
    If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    1. Re:Good employees are scarce and may get scarcer by umghhh · · Score: 2
      I salute you Sir.

      Not that I am that excellent but I am good enough and I see few of those better than me suffering from insults from below (refuse to improve the product and then scolding because somebody else did etc) all the time as well as from (hopefully only moderate) idiocy of management stuff too.

    2. Re:Good employees are scarce and may get scarcer by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

      from my POV (bay area) the unemployed engineers _are_ quite good. they tend to be older and more expensive (and US born); all of which the companies do NOT want anymore.

      there's tons of talent out there waiting to be hired.

      problem is, companies are now 'broken' and spoiled by the greed of h1b servants. getting hired as an older US citizen is near impossible these days. ask me - I know this first-hand.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  6. one time my apartment complex gave me $50 by decora · · Score: 5, Funny

    for referring my buddy dave.

    turns out dave was doing a shake-n-bake meth lab in the back of his pickup. one night it exploded right there in the parking lot. a huge fireball lit the sky. my next door neighbor, doreen, thought iit was jesus come back for the rapture.

    anyways. they wanted the $50 back. i said, i already spent it. i took the ex-inlaw's to the Golden Corral buffet, and at ten dollars a head, well, that money is clean gone.

    they said, damnit, that sumbitch dave blew a hole in the parking lot.

    i said no problem. i know a guy, ronnie earl, who works on the pothole truck for the city. ronnie knew how to get the hole fixed. he filed a pothole report but he used the name of his rich uncle as the report filer. his uncle, you see, owns 5 chevrolet dealerships and is the richest sumbitch this side of caw valley. (we used to call it squaw valley, until my brother bobby went and married that indian girl... it wouldnt be nice to call it that no more)

    anyways. when it comes to referrals, you better get yourself some kinda papers saying they cant get it back if you accidentally misjudge someone's character. like ol' shake-and-bake dave.

    1. Re:one time my apartment complex gave me $50 by Thing+I+am · · Score: 3, Funny

      Dad?

      --
      That sucking sound you hear is my bandwidth.
    2. Re:one time my apartment complex gave me $50 by Atzanteol · · Score: 3, Funny

      My KINGDOM for some mod-points!

      --
      "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

      - Charles Darwin
  7. Stay away by Charliemopps · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In my experience, they offer a large referral bonus when they have a bad reputation. The bonus is designed to bribe at least 1 person to say good things about them.

  8. Great bonus... have fun collecting by gatkinso · · Score: 5, Informative

    I worked for a place that had a great referral bonus (cough cough... BAE Systems... cough). Operation Eagle Eye they called it.

    Well I found a developer that fit all the criteria. Filled out the paper work, got him interviewed and hired.... then all of a sudden email went quiet on the issue. Repeated emails to HR went unanswered. So finally I went down there in person to ask about the referral bonus. We'll get back to you. I got back to them (in person). Excuses: oh this facility doesn't participate in that program (so I went into the hall and pulled the poster off the wall and showed it to the HR rep). Oh your hire doesn't fulfill the requirements (so I got the requirements off the intranet site and checked them off). Oh that's right we didn't end up hiring him (he sits in the office next to mine). Finally I subtlety hinted that I would quit.

    They then sent me half the advertised bonus... four months after I was supposed to get it... and withheld over half of it in taxes AND deducted my 401K percentage contribution from it (oh sorry that was an error by finance we can cut you a new check on 60 days).

    So. Beware if this crap.

    --
    I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
    1. Re:Great bonus... have fun collecting by Xest · · Score: 2

      It's because it's one of those things that companies advertise but never actually plan on having to do in practice, so they have no process or procedure in place as to how to file in the accounts that you just gave someone $5k for a referral and admin staff being admin staff figure rather than deal what is to them a relatively complex problem compared to the simple word processing they normally do prefer to make up excuses as to why you can't have it.

      I've actually seem companies like this with other policies too, even when it comes to such common place things like bonuses, where they advertise "up to 25% bonus" but don't ever actually pay out bonus regardless of performance simply because they've not bothered to sit down and figure out how it's calculated, how it's paid and what pot it comes out of. The net result being that it's just an advertising scam.

  9. Learning to do more in 8 than most do in 16? by raymorris · · Score: 2

    Some would say that if you spend 30-60 minutes per day actively learning, that's the equalivent useful knowledge of adding a new postdoc degree every few years. I could see such a person easily producing twice as much value per hour.

    How many times have you had to completely rewrite someone else's code, or spent so much time on it that you might as have rewritten it? The "typical" developer creates enough future problems by poorly thought out systems that their net productivity approaches zero. It's not that hard to be twice as productive as the guy whose code only survives a year or two. Just learn to build systems that a) actually work b) for at least four years between major overhauls.

    1. Re:Learning to do more in 8 than most do in 16? by gatkinso · · Score: 2

      Personally a big red flag for me is when a dev says "I have to completely rewrite this persons code."

      Not saying it doesn't happen, but a decent developer should be able to deal with other peoples work.

      --
      I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
  10. Please Don't Beat the Free Puppies by happy_place · · Score: 3, Funny

    I don't think companies should be free to beat puppies in order to convince employees to join their company. I mean, that's like extortion, "If you don't scrum with us, we'll beat these puppies senseless!"

    --
    http://www.beanleafpress.com
    1. Re:Please Don't Beat the Free Puppies by Gr8Apes · · Score: 2

      I don't think companies should be free to beat puppies in order to convince employees to join their company. I mean, that's like extortion, "If you don't scrum with us, we'll beat these puppies senseless!"

      So the question becomes "Are you willing to sacrifice yourself in place of the puppies?"

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
  11. Not so good by Larry_Dillon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I left a great job for a lousy one because of a former co-worker at the new place who was singing the new companies praises -- just to get the referral bonus.

    --
    Competition Good, Monopoly Bad.