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The Amish Are Getting Fracked
An anonymous reader writes "Old school meets business school. From the New Republic: 'The Amish interpretation of the Christian bible prohibits the use of the courts: Except in rare circumstances, the Amish do not sue. This has created a unique problem in the region. Home to the largest Amish community in the world, Eastern Ohio sits squarely on top of the Utica and Marcellus Shale formations, which contain billions in oil and gas recoverable through advances in hydraulic fracturing technology, or fracking ... When it comes to the oil and gas industry, this means that any agreement an Amish farmer makes with a company is, for the farmer, practically unenforceable. A rare case in which the plaintiffs were Amish suggests that Ohio's oil and gas companies know this and have been willing to take advantage.'"
I know who I'd bet on every time.
Except they have no ethics or morality. Or shame.
Can't they just give someone else the authority to sue on their behalf? There must be a loophole somewhere in the Bible...
There are actually several different "sects" of Amish, all with differing interpretations. Saying that they don't make use of the courts is incorrect. Some don't, but for most the prohibition is in filing lawsuits for personal gain.
In any event, it's really not something anybody should be concerned with. The Amish have the right to take advantage of the courts, and the right to choose not to use them. If their belief system says don't use the courts, well that's too bad but it's a burden they've placed on themselves.
The Amish are not thinking on the billions, they are thinking on their land. They rarely rely on money anyway, so the billions would not be that compelling to them. But frackle their soil and wreck their land, and they will be deeply concerned.
Ohhh, you gonna paint that barn tonight
Ohhh, down beside da lantern light
Ohhh, you gonna finish all your chores
Black bonnet girls you make the Amish world go round
Yah
I was just an Amish boy
Full of purity und joy
Knew damn well that I was holier than thee
Left alone with Cousin Greta
What a naughty baby sitta
Heathen woman, you made a Mennonite out of me
Yah Yah
I know girls who never curse
Chicks who know their bible verse
Every one of them wore a dress down to da floor
Though their chastity and charm
Made them quite pleasant on da farm
There ain't nothing like a good old Amish whore
Ohhh, you gonna paint that barn tonight
Ohhh, down beside da lantern light
Ohhh, you gonna finish all your chores
Black bonnet girls you make the Amish world go round
Yah
Black bonnet girls you make the Amish world go round
Hey Carl
Yah Graeber
What's the difference between Greta and my buggy.
I don't know Graber what is the difference
Well, not everybody has been in my buggy.
Ha ha ha ha
Yah listen now
I've been on my knees all day
All I do is sit and pray
Thought I saw the Lord but I can't really tell
But I knew from da beginning
With this lust and all this sinning
Black bonnet girls and me will surely burn in hell
Yah dig this
Ohhh, you gonna paint that barn tonight
Ohhh, down beside da lantern light
Ohhh, you gonna finish all your chores
Black bonnet girls you make the Amish world go round
Yah
Black bonnet girls you make the Amish world go round
Get on your buggies and ride
Black bonnet girls
Man that Greta's built like a brick outhouse
Black bonnet girls
As long as I've got a pew, she's got a place to sit
Black bonnet girls
Yah, she could churn my butter anytime
Black bonnet girls
Hey Greta, show us your ankles
Ooooh
If they had religious objections to the police, and thus refused to use them, would we start seeing stories that they are being robbed and the robbers are getting away?
Of course if they don't use the courts, they don't get the benefit of the courts. If they refuse anything based on religious grounds, they're not going to get it. That's what "refuse" means. If they refuse the process of getting justice, they're not going to get justice, just like if they refuse internet service, they don't get internet service.
What next, articles about the cruel dilemma of Christian Scientists who are dying of disease because their religion discourages them from seeing doctors?
That ought to learn the oil & gas companies a lesson!
Can't they sue the pants off of these guys and then repent afterwards?
Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
Why would the Amish need a court system? They have the Amish Mafia to protect them.
sudo make me a sandwich
Is that billions with a "B?"
Umm, ok for 10% I'll be whatever kind of liaison they need. Who do I have to call?
Your last sentence indicates that you lack the knowledge to properly represent the Amish.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
It isn't so much the Easter/Christmas Christians. I mean when you have someone that only has a passing involvement in their religion, it is not at all surprising when they ignore some (or many) of the rules. However you see it in the really orthodox as well. They find what they believe to be loopholes and use them.
Orthodox Jews are some of the best examples:
So Exodus 35:3 says "Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day." This relates to Exodus 16:23 which says "This is what the LORD commanded: 'Tomorrow is to be a day of sabbath rest, a holy sabbath to the LORD. So bake what you want to bake and boil what you want to boil. Save whatever is left and keep it until morning.'" Basically the idea is, as far as biblical scholars can tell, that making a fire was a lot of work (try making a fire rubbing sticks together, it sucks) and the Sabbath is a day of rest. So none of that, you make your food on Friday, rest on Saturday. Remember that we are talking the ME/Mediterranean here, so you didn't really need fire for warmth.
However, for whatever reason, the Talmudic interpretation has decided that electricity is fire. I'm not sure why, but that is what the orthodox churches teach. So, you aren't allowed to operate electric devices on Saturday (the Jewish Sabbath), in particular your oven. Well that's pretty damn inconvenient in the modern world... So they find all kinds of "loopholes". You can get ovens that have timers longer than 24 hours. You set them up the day before, and they'll heat up (and down) at the prescribed times. Also while an Orthodox Jew can't go and push the buttons to operate an elevator in their building, it is 100% fine to have a Gentile who does it for you. Or, since elevator operators are a rather unnecessary expense these days, elevators can be (and are) set in to 'Sabbath Mode' where they automatically stop at every floor and open up, and just keep cycling. Takes longer, you have to get on and wait, but you can use it without 'operating' it.
This is real, and it is big. There are plenty of Orthodox Jews that seem to think it is important to obey that part of the bible, but that they can find ticky loopholes and gotchas to get around it and god will be ok with that. I don't claim to understand it, however it is what it is.
On the flip side you'll see some weird stuff like stores that won't let you order on the Sabbath. B&H Photo Video, one of the best camera stores in the US, is like that. They have a big, well designed, online ordering system. However it won't let you order on the Sabbath. You can browse, but if you try to place an order, it won't allow it, you have to wait, it won't queue it into the system. The servers don't get the day off, but they aren't allowed to take orders :).
So you can see how, given things like this, people might assume the Amish would be similar. It is not from dealing with people who are casually religious that you get the idea, but from dealing with those that are deeply religious and seem to care about certain rules, but are 100% fine with going around those rules in tricky ways.
Now lest someone think I'm picking on the Jews here, I just chose the example because it is one you see a fair bit in America. You should see some of the things various orthodox Muslims do that are against the Koran, but they've found a loophole that makes it "ok" in this particular case.
Don't enter into any more agreements with those frackers.
I think it's the middle-men who are on the whole responsible for these issues. My own parents have been approached by middle-men, sorry not sure what their titles are, who handle contracts between land owners and the companies. They handle the initial contract and pre-payments for anything in the ground, including percentages for any find. The oil and gas companies just buy these contracts from them in the same way freddie mac and fannie may buy home loans. I don't know if this is true for the entire country but its certainly true for where my parents live.
It's funny when people talk about the Amish as if their assured piety somehow comes from genetics or something. The truth is, the Amish have ALWAYS sought for 'loopholes' in their situation - what the Bishops allow for is a different tale altogether.
I could give you LOTS of examples, but here's a oldie AND a goodie. Back in the early 90's, I worked for a Commodore dealer in Lancaster County, PA (BIG Amish and Mennonite community). C= had kind of a non-sequitur deal: Buy an Amiga 500 bundled with a 1080 monitor, get a 'free' VCR - which was kinda silly. The A500 had no color composite out, so actually hooking it up to a VCR required this phallic-looking 6 inch long module (the A520), which of course, was not included.
And yet...
The Old Order Mennonites and even a few of the younger Amish were buying into this deal - big time. We sold more A500s than ever during this time - and the vast majority were going to that community. While the A500 didn't have a true color composite out (C= = STUPID!), the VCR did, and it just so happened that the monitor that came with the bundle did as well. I found out what was going on when I suggested to a conservative-looking young couple that, with an antenna connected to the VCR's tuner, you could actually watch TV on the monitor.
I was taken aback by their shocked and seemingly terrified response, "Oh no! Don't SAY THAT! We don't want to watch TV on it!" What they DID want to watch was VHS video though. Because the Bishops were not up on the latest technology, they could claim that the computer system was the primary purpose of the deal - the VCR would not be mentioned, and they could watch all the tapes they wanted in the secluded privacy of their bedrooms.
Today, if you see an Amish or Mennonite woman on the stoop of their house, cradling something close to their ear, you can bet it's a cell phone. There are cell vendors who specifically cater to the Amish's 'cash only' lifestyle.
Folks, the Amish are as human as any of us. There are pious ones, but many are essentially trapped in a lifestyle out of necessity. Imagine this: With only an 8th grade education, and all of your friends and family belonging to the community, you'd probably stay because you'd fear the total abandonment of the only life you've ever known. But that doesn't mean they don't get rebellious or 'get up to dickens'... ;)
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
The Amish adapt way better to the real world than financial institutions. It should be our concern.
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
I think the blame still lies with the NG company. The "punching a pacifist" metaphor is a good one. Sure, he chooses not to punch back out of his own free will...but it's wrong that he was assaulted in the first place.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
This is a larger problem than in Ohio. In Montana there are a small number of Amish and various other Anabaptists (all of which consider judicial action "taboo"), and they're also finding themselves square in the crosshairs. The fact is that Anabaptists tend to choose to live in isolated areas (so they will be left alone), yet those isolated areas are the ones that are increasingly being exploited for natural resources.
It's also important to understand some of the other restrictions that aren't obvious. If an "English" farmer has a railroad that is forced on him/her through his/her property, s/he can request a crossing be built so that the normal operations of the farm (like moving cattle) aren't impeded. But to do that requires the farmer carry insurance to indemnify the railroad for damage. Amish also don't believe in insurance. So that means that there are no crossings on their farms. Driving 5 miles out of your way to get to an existing crossing is a far larger problem if you're on horse than it is if you are driving an internal combustion engine.
When it comes to the oil and gas industry, this means that any agreement an Amish farmer makes with a company is, for the farmer, practically unenforceable.
In case anyone was wondering, and would prefer not to have to read TFA to find out what TFS is teasing about, the agreement made was to lease land to an oil company for $10/acre. The potential for a lawsuit comes about because the agent told them this was about the best price they could get - when the actual answer was more like $1000/acre - thereby, the article alleges, committing fraud.
It could've been the Beverly Hillbillies/Witness mash-up I've been longing for, but alas.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
They are collections of people. Employees and shareholders, who are...people!
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
you blame the government for not letting you rob your neighbors too.
If you cannot get the laws changed to something you can live with, move somewhere else.
If the government is no longer acting in its citizens' best interests, then it's the government that needs to go, not the citizens.
You don't stop obeying the law, you vote in a new government and get the laws changed.
If rights are being violated, you don't go along with it while trying to vote in people that will repeal those violations. You stand up against them immediately and refuse to acquiesce. Voting in people to get the laws changed comes after that.
It does not matter if they are a cult or neo-nazi. They have a right to not be fracked by the powerful and the protection of those rights applies to us all. We shouldn't have to fight to keep our own rights either but we MUST do our part to protect the rights of others so they do not have to go it alone.
The ideals that make the system work are dead. Mammon is the dominant religion and it's values trump all the old ideals. All hail the book of Rand!
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Canada never (successfully) revolted against the British.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebellions_of_1837
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Canada
"In 1867, with the union of three British North American colonies through Confederation, Canada was formed as a federal dominion of four provinces. This began an accretion of provinces and territories and a process of increasing autonomy from the British Empire, which became official with the Statute of Westminster of 1931 and completed in the Canada Act of 1982, which severed the vestiges of legal dependence on the British parliament."
Yet, Canada got rid of slavery decades before the USA. Canada now ranks higher on scales of health and happiness than the USA. So, there are other ways forward than violence.
Even the American Revolution probably would not have succeeded except for help from the French who were at odds with the British.
A related post I made today: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3833389&cid=43945791
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.