Canadians, Too, Should Demand Surveillance Answers

An anonymous reader writes "Privacy and surveillance have taken centre stage this week with the revelations that U.S. agencies have been engaged in massive, secret surveillance programs that include years of capturing the meta-data from every cellphone call on the Verizon network (the meta-data includes the number called and the length of the call) as well as gathering information from the largest Internet companies in the world including Google, Facebook, Microsoft, and Apple in a program called PRISM. Michael Geist explains how many of the same powers exist under Canadian law and that it is very likely that Canadians have been caught up by these surveillance activities."

Comments

Absolutely

[Phrogman]

Guaranteed that our country is willingly sharing all of our data with the US. I don't doubt it for a minute. And its likely been doing it since Echelon was first built, now just more efficiently than before. I have zero faith in Steven Harper's credibility or integrity at any rate.

Re:Absolutely

[JMJimmy]

I doubt Canadian law enforcement is going outside the law... they don't need to since the US has no problem spying on foreign countries - we just happen to be in the "lucky" situation that they'll share the intel with us.

Re:Absolutely

[Trepidity]

I, too, have zero faith in Steven Harper generally and would prefer him and his party out of office, but on this particular issue I'm worried the consensus is quite cross-party, at least between the Conservatives and Liberals. It's not like the practice of shoveling data to the US wholesale started only in 2004: the previous Liberal government under both Jean Chrétien and Paul Martin also maintained strong security & intelligence collaboration with the US.

Chrétien was more publicly skeptical of US foreign policy than Harper is (e.g. opposing the Iraq war), but I'm not sure his government was in practice different when it came to behind-the-scenes things like how the intelligence services were operated.

Re:Absolutely

[davester666]

Yes, it's a tit for tat situation. We can spy on American's and the US can spy on Canadian's.

It's a win-win.

Re:Absolutely

[Anonymous Coward]

People have this disingenuous idea that politicians behave substantially worse than anybody else.

Politicians aren't any worse than many of the people I've had to work with. People will exploit a situation to their advantage as much as they can get away with. Sometimes the limits are legal. Sometimes they are cultural. Sometimes they are family. Sometimes they are corporate.

And there are exceptions, more than a few in select organizations. But by and large, that's the scenario. Politicians just happen to be a small identifiable group with varying degrees of much greater power and influence, and therefore their behavior have further reaching effects.

As Joseph de Maistre put it, "Toute nation a le gouvernement qu’elle mérite." (= "Every nation has the government that it deserves.")

We live in a democracy, so people get the government the deserve, as it's said. People are responsible for the kinds of politicians in power.

Stephen Harper is supposed to be a pro-military pro-law conservative economist, and almost 40% of voters went for that. His pre-election fiscal conservativism somehow included a combination of balancing the budget while cutting corporate income tax and spending billions on jets -- his Masters in economics must have convinced him that the key to a balanced budget is to reduce revenues and increase spending. His post-election pro-military stance included cutting services to veterans returning from Afghanistan, as well as cancelling the military jets when he became aware of rising costs that even some of the pro-military conservative politicians in the US took issue with -- this was before the Canadian election. I guess as an economist, he can't be expected to understand such financial things. As for pro-law, he cut resources to the RCMP.

But you know what, as easy as it is to blame Harper for all of that, he was elected in our voting system. Almost 40% of voters voted for him. And just about nobody cares to see change to the partisan first-past-the-post electoral system that allows less than 40% of voters to elect a majority government.

Where's the Canadian Obama?

[Vinegar Joe]

He'll bring you the "Hope and Change" Americans now enjoy. You certainly deserve it.

Re:Where's the Canadian Obama?

[Anonymous Coward]

Posting anonymously so as not to lose mod points.

> I didn't hear you ... libertarians complaining then ...

You weren't listening, then. Period. End of discussion.

It wasn't just libertarians who complained, either. Right-wing talk radio complained about it endlessly. On our local stations, the afternoon host went ballistic on it for weeks. Even RUSH LIMBAUGH complained about it, and said on 9/12 (the day after the attacks) that the American people had better be VERY careful, or the government would use fear of terrorism to install a surveillance state that would probe everything.

Pick another bromide, red herring or strawman to pummel. I'm as conservative as they come, and I've been complaining about stuff like this for YEARS.

-- Stephen

Canadians have a bad habit

[Livius]

....of copying whatever the Americans do when it's stupid. In those rare moments when Americans get it right, they refuse to imitate because the difference is part of what makes Canadian identity distinctive.

Curieusement, les Canadien français sourvent font la même chose à l'égard des Canadiens anglais.

We're Canadian eh!

[GrBear]

We're no US citizens, we already knew we were under surveillance by the US gov't because we're a foreign country.

This is the first time smug US citizens find out what the rest of the world feels like.

Good on ya eh!

5 Eyes

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the 5 Eyes problem.

The USA, UK, Aus, NZ and CAN have reciprocal intelligence agreements.

Canada spies on US citizens, gives the intelligence to the US. And vice-versa.

It's been going on for years.

Re: Why? It's for our children.

[s4ltyd0g]

Your sarcasm detector is broken.

Every Country in the World

[Etherwalk]

Of course Canada is doing it; of course the United States is doing it; Every country that can figure out how is probably doing it. It's like sex. Everyone is doing it or trying to do it.

Re:widespread

[Dr. Tom]

/scoff

I visited an East Berlin museum back when there was an East Berlin. There was an exhibit consisting of several rooms worth of intercepted mail. Yeah, they read all the mail, except they didn't really have enough staff to do it all, so most of the letters just sat in crates forever. Basically, they were inept idiots compared to what's being done today.

Noooooo

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

> "it is very likely that Canadians have been caught up by these surveillance activities."

RC Secret MP: "Turn it up, what are they saying?"
(turns up volume)

Person 1: "MMmmmm. That's some good backbacon, eh?"
Person 2: "Ya, eh. Put some more maple syrup on it, eh."
(sound of crunching crash in background)
Person 2: "What was that, eh?"
(some footsteps)
Person 1: "Looks like another beaver cut down a tree and it almost hit the cabin, eh."