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Facebook and Microsoft Disclose Government Requests For User Data
wiredmikey writes "Facebook and Microsoft say they received thousands of requests for information from U.S. authorities last year but are prohibited from listing a separate tally for security-related requests or secret court orders related to terror probes. The two companies have come under heightened scrutiny since reports leaked of a vast secret Internet surveillance program U.S. authorities insist targets only foreign terror suspects and is needed to prevent attacks. Facebook said Friday it had received between 9,000 and 10,000 requests for user data affecting 18,000 to 19,000 accounts during the second half of last year and Microsoft said it had received 6,000 to 7,000 requests affecting 31,000 to 32,000 accounts during the same period."
Meanwhile, an article at the Guardian is suggesting the government may have better targets to pursue than Edward Snowden. "[U.S. director of national intelligence James Clapper] has come out vocally to condemn Snowden as a traitor to the public interest and the country, yet a review of Booz Allen's own history suggests that the government should be investigating his former employer, rather than the whistleblower."
"[U.S. director of national intelligence James Clapper] has come out vocally to condemn Snowden as a traitor to the public interest and the country"
No. The people responsible for spying on American citizens are the ones who have betrayed their country and the public interest. They're the ones who should be caught, tried, and imprisoned. Government officials who violate the US constitution are traitors. People like Snowden are heroes.
No. It's the people responsible for spying on American citizens who have betrayed their country and the public interest. They are the ones who should be tried and punished for treason. People like Snowden are heroes. It's those who violate the US Constitution who are traitors.
Then Booz Allen was involved in scattered other irregularities and questionable dealings which are unfortunately typical for companies of that size, that have major dealings with the Pentagon and other agencies of the Federal government.
And you don't see a problem with that?
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
"[U.S. director of national intelligence James Clapper] has come out vocally to condemn Snowden as a traitor to the public interest and the country"
I simply cannot wrap my head around this. How is it in public's interest to be constantly surveiled in violation of the bill of rights?
did the right thing. The truth is, I believe that MANY more Americans would be in favor of the government sifting through the information IF they were informed of such processes. The problem is transparency, or the lack of it actually. Covertly operating as they are doing, to me, is the real issue. That being said, I personally think that regardless of transparency, I've always assumed Big Brother was watching more than it should, but I've never let it bothered me because it would be just much ado about nothing.
Like a lot of folks on Wall Street, the Guardian sees two points and draws a trend line. Only it's more like one point so far. The US Government intentionally, across multiple departments & agencies, with malice aforethought, massively violating the US Constitution and the Rights of it's citizens in nearly every way possible. Well, except house troops in our homes. We can give them that. For now..
FTFY
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
If you read carefully, saying that specific requests have come in for 20000 users doesn't mean that there aren't other mechanisms in place to collect a lot more data without specific requests. For example, the NSA could be collecting data where Facebook's servers connect to the Internet. Past reports and disclosures on NSA activities (as well as the activities of other spy agencies) suggest that this is likely routine practice. Facebook doesn't even deny this, and of course even if they did, it's questionable whether such a denial was meaningful. In addition, it's clear that the NSA and other agencies actively collect data from all open sources that they can. And, of course, you have to assume that the Utah data center is going to be used to store something, and it ain't gonna be data obtained from just 20000 Facebook-related requests, because those would fit on my hard drive.
So I don't know what these disclosures are supposed to accomplish. They really don't change anything. At the root of the problem is really that there isn't enough transparency and that people have lost trust. What we need and should demand is complete legal, fiscal, and legislative transparency on our spy organizations, what they are legally allowed to do, who sets limits on them, and how much we're spending on it. I don't see why understanding in such general terms what these organizations do should hinder their ability to catch terrorists. And if such disclosures really interfere with their capabilities, that suggests by itself that they are doing something they shouldn't be doing.
well.. if nothing else it's highly relevant that the programs work pretty much as a funds siphoning device(in addition to being secret, useless and rights infringing).
you would think that if they had any brains they would legislate such programs to be done with governmental employees only, no? wouldn't it make sense that only military/police/nsa personnel would be allowed to work on the project? 200k/year for technicians! imagine how much the company was billing the government for that 200k - put it at mildly at 400k. for a technician in a role they shouldn't be buying from a private contractor in the first place in a project that should not be touched by private contractor hands in the first place.. now it runs on basis of "hey here's xxx million - do what you please with it! hire friends! give stupid support contracts!".
you know what's worse than a spy program? a spy program ran by dicks for money. it's as stupid as hiring your own veterans as private contractors for military operations.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD
What are all of the three letter agencies so afraid of? I mean, If they aren't doing anything wrong they shouldn't be concerned with some reasonable transparency. As long as they don't have anything to hide, right?
Its always amazing how some federal agencies seem to think it is so important to have unfettered access to others information so they can "keep a vigilant eye out" yet they so detest anyone making sure that their own activities remain above board. Especially in light of the obvious revolving door between the private sector companies which stand to make billions, and the three letter agencies dolling out those fees. As noted in the Guardian article James Clapper the current director of National Intelligence, one of the loudest voices of "disapproval" against Snowden's actions, was Vice-President of Booz Allen Hamilton not too long ago. That coupled with his lies to congress in regards to these programs............ If we're looking for traitors I'm far more concerned with the ones who are fleecing the American taxpayers out of hundreds of billions of dollars and lying to government inquests than one individual who released classified documents in an attempt to inform the public about possibly illegal acts.
Of course James Clapper would vociferously accuse Snowden. How else can he have any hope of getting away with willfully lying to congress, replying "No Sir" when asked if the NSA was collecting any data on Americans?
making public officials look bad.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
The Guardian is full of shit. They have nothing. If they did have anything valuable, they would be shut down and the offices emptied out. The much more interesting story right now is who is the father of Wendi Deng's children. There you will see many pieces of a big puzzle fall into place.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Is it appropriate to report half a year's worth of data?
Though not unheard of, six months is an uncommon period to report; isn't the general expectation that they would report a full year's worth? Of course that would result in the requests being approximately doubled. My concern would be people will remember the amount as "9,000 and 10,000 requests per year".
This reminds me of politicians who also skew the time period to make dollar amounts appear larger or smaller.
To make dollar amounts appear larger, they increase the time period ("we're investing $4 billion over ten years").
An innovative approach recently used by Australian Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus to convince Australians that politicians were only awarding themselves a tiny increase in public money was to use the following: the increase is only a dollar per vote per year.
I suspect the choice of "six months" was a deliberate attempt to skew the perception of the requests.
This sort of surveillance ("We need to look at these specific accounts") doesn't bother me: that's how search warrants are supposed to work. (Well, assuming they are looking for terrorists and not just harassing Tea Party people.) This seems quite different from some other recent disclosures, like the Verizon warrants: "Give us records of all calls made." Search warrants, to be constitutional, have to be specific. General warrants were abused by the British and are a specific reason the Fourth Amendment was written.
Also note that at the same time the federal government is conducting sweeping, general surveillance of all Americans in the name of fighting terrorism, "Since October of 2011, the FBI has been forbidden to covertly gather information or set up sting operations at mosques unless they've been reviewed and approved by something the DoJ has tagged the Sensitive Operations Review Committee." I guess the Department of Justice didn't consider sweeping surveillance of all Americans to be as much of a "sensitive operation" as looking for Islamic terrorists in places they are likely to be.
Q: What does the "B." in Benoit B. Mandelbrot stand for? A: Benoit B. Mandelbrot
Can't they investigate both of them? That's like when I tell the lady down the street that she needs to pick up her dog's crap, and she wonders why I am not going after the other people who have dogs. As if they wouldn't ask why I am not going after her, when I ask them to not be slobs. Of course, the answer is, "I need to start with someone, and your dog is the one who just crapped in my yard right in front of me."
So, let's get the right people all extradited, and then maybe they can give Snowden a few years off for turning State's Evidence on Booz Allen.
A phrase that can be read two ways...
Sorry he's not a troll, he's RIGHT. Not only that but Snowden was on LEAVE for 3 of the 10 weeks he worked at Booz Allen. Hell his indoctrination for the company would've taken another week. Something is very very fishy about what this guy says. Considering his inflated salary claim and other claims about access that don't quite make sense I cannot help but wonder where exactly he got the data he claims to have leaked.
Booz Allen has dozens upon dozens of vice this that or the other, Clapper's past bothers me less than Snowden's. A company the size of Booz is going to have fuck ups, they're going to get smacked, and if they screw up badly enough they lose big money - they're staffed with people. When that Air Force idiot brought over that data he screwed the pooch and it should've been reported immediately but wasn't which was the problem. Guess who DID report it in the end - yup Booz Allen themselves!
Look at just about any other BIG firm and you will find the same crap, the line that this report draws is tenuous at best.
1) deny it.
2) deny it
3) disclose heavily scrubbed and minimized data
4) do damage control
5) repeat as needed.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
PRISM introduces a huge corporate security risk, that will requires a response.
Corporate officers cannot knowingly transmit corporate secrets over insecure channels that cross through a foreign nation.
What do corporate charters say about dealing with companies that act as intelligence agents for a foreign government?
How much personal liability falls upon duly signed officers of the corporation?
Is google a 'foreign company' because it is really an Ireland Corporation?
Is this article an indication that Microsoft and Facebook server logs are already registering a backlash?
The US government violated it's constitution, it's Charter, and the Social Contract. Is the US Government technically now illegitimate?
What computers do I buy, now that Microsofts and Apples are unfit for purpose?
Do I dump my Facebook stock?
What happened to: "As always, should you or any of your I.M. Force be caught or killed, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions. This tape/disc will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Jim." Where did that hard ass ethos go to?
What happened to "No Such Agency"? Back in the day, even talking abut the existence of the NSA got you labelled as a conspiracy kook.
Clapper is the Traitor !
TARGET Clapper KILL Clapper !
PISS on Clapper and his children and grand children ! KILL them ALL.
Does the NSA collect Email & Message Meta Data on Americans? I know it gets that data from the Internet pipe, And from Boundless Informant I can see they collect lots of data, from US and many countries.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/08/nsa-boundless-informant-global-datamining
I don't see how other countries can be providing phone data, so it must be email meta data.
They legally can't disclose the FISA requests, they can however quite legally lie about them.
They can see their businesses going up in smoke, nobody can use the Cloud Services now if the NSA has access to them. Facebook will face worldwide probes and legal bars.
Occam Razor says, they are lying to save their business.
It's the one thing they can legally do under US law. As I wrote that a wave of despair went down my back.
AC parent (modded +5 Insightful) is a dupe which...
1. AC, first post
2. copy/paste dupes
adds up to BOT...
parent is a bot, or a paid commentor, or a very misguided troll...plz mod down
Thank you Dave Raggett
Hmm, my first thought was that 19000 times 300 million per request is more than the total population on earth, so I was wondering who exactly the NSA is watching.
We have the leak from the mathematician [William Binney] who originally worked on the data mining for them.
So yeh, we know they're using it. It's data mining.
Also we know now that Trailblazer wasn't cancelled, it might have had a name change or been shifted around, but not cancelled:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trailblazer_Project
'Turbulence' [malware] description doesn't fit the Trailblazer [surveillance] description, so it wasn't cancelled and replaced by 'Turbulence'.
"The government, as a whole, not just the NSA but the whole government superstructure, has been moving towards a heightened level of security "
Fear mongering clap trap, STUXNET was likely NSA, real world threats are small.
"The NSA, as an organization, needs to return to its roots"
You talk like a speech writer.
"FBI is sending G-men into other countries' to "extract" people. And DHS... Fuck if anyone even knows what's going on there"
And the NSA writes STUXNET, then STUXNET becomes the basis for NSA cyber defence funding, so they can do STUXNET2 which they can present as 'scary enemy malware version 2..... gee I wonder how they found out the zero day exploit in Microsoft? BECAUSE MICROSOFT TOLD THEM.
We're in the ludicrous position of fighting a phantom enemy with the NSA that *IS* the NSA itself.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/07/obama-china-targets-cyber-overseas
"The 18-page Presidential Policy Directive 20, issued in October last year but never published, states that what it calls Offensive Cyber Effects Operations (OCEO) "can offer unique and unconventional capabilities to advance US national objectives around the world with little or no warning to the adversary or target and with potential effects ranging from subtle to severely damaging"."
And why are we at cyber-war level?
http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-20023124-245.html#!
" The Stuxnet worm is a "wake-up call" because of its complexity and its aim at critical infrastructure systems, a Symantec director told a U.S. congressional committee today."
"The malware is a milestone in many ways, Dean Turner, director of Symantec Security Response's Global Intelligence Network, said in testimony before the U.S. Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs."
"It is the first known threat to: spy on and reprogram industrial control systems and grant hackers control of critical infrastructures; use four zero-day vulnerabilities; compromise two digital certificates; inject code into industrial control systems and hide the code from operators;"
Surely mass surveillance would only work for spying on people with nothing to hide (or crap terrorists) because those with nefarious aims and some intelligence would use the common channels of communication as a method of misdirection to the NSA.
http://www.vupen.com/english/
"defensive and offensive cyber security". Helsingin Sanomat, biggest newspaper in Finland, claims the company is selling security holes (most likely accompanied with easy way to use them) for governments and intelligence agencies.
In Finnish: http://www.hs.fi/ulkomaat/Tietoturva-aukoilla+tahkotaan+miljoonia/a1371264995752
... its a feedback loop for manipulation of the public via controlled media (Main Stream Media).
Silicon valley should know this and Hollywood certainly does about how feedback loops are used to promote one thing or another.
There is no way such a large amount of spying can be filtered as abstract language is only as useful as the definitions applied by those using it. In other words, a terrorist plot could be communicated in a manner of common conversation that is undetectable. But certainly spying on such a large amount of people would result in a good representation of teh attitudes of the masses from which controlled news media can then manipulate.
Slashdot moderation is like Wikipedia in edit mod, both have a degree of commonly biased mods. Its known Wikipedia has Israeli paid mods. With this in mind I can safely assume this post will be modded down regardless of obvious facts.
For years, the Carlyle Group has tried to shed its former reputation as a second home for government officials and a specialist in buying defense companies. But the recent fracas over the National Security Agencyâs surveillance programs highlights the private equity giant's remaining ties to government work: its majority stake in Booz Allen Hamilton, the employer of the whistle-blower, Edward J. Snowden.
AccountKiller
Obfuscation is not transparency and does not exempt Microsoft (including Hotmail, Skype), Facebook, Apple (backdoors to cpu, iPod, iPhone and iTunes), Yahoo, AOL, MasterCard, Visa, Discover Card from collusion to commit fraud.
In this instance obfuscation is fraud.
This is because the revelations of the program (operation) code named PRISM indicates direct access to the user databases and has nothing to do with FISA Court requests!
There is the inconvenient fact that the Holden-Obama Department of Justice has so far blocked access to a dissenting opinion of the FISA court which ruled DoJ 'activity' as unconstitutional. EFF et al. through FOIA are trying to get the dissenting opinion document however redacted it will be.
Secondly, the Obama Administration is pushing for 3 judgeships on the First District Court of the U.S., the D.C. court where the FISA Court lives (in secrecy) -- suggesting that the FISA judge and others who pinned the dissenting opinion will be replaced.
Well perhaps 'replaced' is better than 'murdered' on executive order by Obama.
So, I'm clicking links and trying to RTFA with some dry, carefully constructed analysis of alleged data, but no actual fucking data? What kinds of people were spied upon? Has anyone got a copy of the list of which accounts? Are any of us on it? Do we know how much the gubberment knows?
Sadly, a Libertarian cannot force his views on another, and freedom cannot spread as does the cancer known as religion.
"Facebook and Microsoft Disclose Government Requests For User Data"
Oh yeah, I believe everything that Microsoft and Facebook says about it being the nice guy here and "disclosure" of information.
I have seen scams run on T.V. at 2AM in the morning more convincing than that statement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWyHiV3l3MA
-Hack
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
If a politician see a massive ground swell of public opposition, she/he will stop and think twice about proceeding as usual.
The Total # does count. However, the US public is still irrationally fearful about attacks. We need to educate the public on where the real risks are and what are proper amount of expenses and bending of civil rights to achieve mitigation.