MS To Indie Devs: You Have a To Have a Publisher

Loadmaster writes "The new Oddworld game New 'n' Tasty is coming to every platform in the current generation and even the next generation but not the Xbox One. It's not that developer Oddworld Inhabitants isn't porting the game. It's not that they hate Microsoft or the Xbox One. No, it's that Microsoft has taken an anti-indie dev stance with the Xbox One. While the game industry is moving to Kickstarter and self-funded shops, Microsoft has decided all developers must have a publisher to grace their console."

Comments

Who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft is a sinking ship, there is no salvage.

Re:Who cares?

[mcgrew]

I found this story puzzling, I would have expected Sony to do this rather than Microsoft. The fight against "piracy" is the fight against indie media, since the indies use the internet to get the word out and the mainstream monsters don't need it.

Nobody ever lost a dime to noncommercial infringement, but many great artists have starved from obscurity (very good example being Van Gogh, who only sold one painting for ten bucks in today's money, to his brother, to pay a debt). The fight against "piracy" is a fight against their indie competition, who DO cost them sales; fifty bucks I give Indie A is fifty bucks I don't have to give to MAFAA B.

Before CD burners and the internet the creator was dependent on publishers, but publishers are no longer needed. Publishers hate and fear the internet, with good reason.

Since Sony has publishing arms and MS doesn't this is really weird. Maybe MS is deliberately trying to kill the ex-box like it did FoxPro? It would make sense if Sony did it, but not Microsoft.

This pisses me off, as a former Sony victim I want that company to die horribly. Come on, Sony, follow Microsoft's lead and let Nintendo have the game business!

Duh, they are a publisher

[h4rr4r]

This is just Microsoft protecting their own turf. This is part of their culture. As a publisher they feel they must prevent anything that might jeopardize that income. Most companies would not go this far, but Microsoft has a culture of "cutting off their nose to spite their face."

Re:Duh, they are a publisher

[Nerdfest]

... or they're lying ... again.

Re:Duh, they are a publisher

[h4rr4r]

Citation please.

Sony fucked up a lot last gen, it looks like they are learning.

Either way, even if they change a month after shipping it, at least it started out better than Xbone.

Re:Duh, they are a publisher

[Anonymous Coward]

... or they're lying ... again.

Yep, give this man a cigar.

Micrsoft has a long history of using the "Queen's duck" strategy to pretend they're listening to their customers. After a suitable pause, Microsoft will grandly and magnanimously agree to allow users and developers some token feedom while reserving the option to continue screwing everyone who deals with them.

They'll have their social media reputation managers pulling out all stops to sell the pre-planned reversion as a "customers have spoken" moment, when it's really anything but.

Re:Duh, they are a publisher

[h4rr4r]

I think it is natural.

Sony has to do well with PS4 or their console dreams are over. Microsoft is doing very well with the 360 and thinks they are on top of the world. This means Sony is pulling out all the stops to get converts. Microsoft thinks they can be as dickish as they like and keep enough customers. Sony has done this in the past when they were on top.

Re:Duh, they are a publisher

[denmarkw00t]

It was a promised feature that was removed later - would some of the people who purchased it have dropped that $$$ if they knew that, even at some point in the future, they'd have to make a choice between running Linux or playing online? I know I wouldn't have, if Linux were part of the draw to a PS3 (too pricey for me tbh). Besides, their track record isn't great, and it'll be worth it to watch both of these companies after launch... just wait and see.

Re:Duh, they are a publisher

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony advertised that those PS3s came with OtherOS. They did not advertise those PS3s come with OtherOS as long as you have no interest in playing new games or enjoying new features on your console, especially when those features and games have no conflict whatsoever with OtherOS.

It's like a dealership warranty requiring oil changes at the dealership (I know that's only the case for extended warranties now) and after the 12th oil change they rip out the radio (but they were nice enough to tell you that they'd do that the day you bring your car in for the 12th oil change). They lied because the radio was part of the car and nowhere in the warranty does it say you'll have the radio ripped out on the 12th oil change.

Lying by omission is still lying.

Let's also not forget about the rootkit, which was as obvious of a lie as any.

Re:Duh, they are a publisher

[Karl Cocknozzle]

It was a promised feature that was removed later - would some of the people who purchased it have dropped that $$$ if they knew that, even at some point in the future, they'd have to make a choice between running Linux or playing online? I know I wouldn't have, if Linux were part of the draw to a PS3 (too pricey for me tbh). Besides, their track record isn't great, and it'll be worth it to watch both of these companies after launch... just wait and see.

They made some unfortunate choices, but "changing their mind" is the prerogative you gave them when you bought their proprietary hardware/only-as-open-as-we-say-it-can-be model in the first place. I'm sure it was disappointing, but how old are you that you really weren't expecting that ability to be taken away?

Re:Duh, they are a publisher

[h4rr4r]

You could never really run Linux on the PS3, you could run it on some hypervisor on the PS3 that prevent access to the interesting hardware.

Yeah shitty move, but not lying.

Re:Duh, they are a publisher

[TWiTfan]

You would think that console companies would have learned by now that being on top in one-generation and getting cocky about it is the sure road to getting your ass kicked in the next generation. Just ask Atari, Nintendo, and Sony. Nothing spells doom in the console world quite like a "We're on top now, so we can do anything we want!" attitude.

Re:Duh, they are a publisher

[Anonymous Coward]

"Changing your mind" after customers purchase your hardware = "lying". I'm 37, and I wasn't expecting that feature to be taken away. I'm not buying a PS4 partially because of that - and the rootkits, and their incredibly poor response and questionable statements related to the PSN hack.

(Side note: this is quite possibly why Sony isn't doing the online thing; it isn't being gamer-friendly, its them remembering their network was unusable for 3-4 weeks.)

Re:Duh, they are a publisher

[Zeromous]

You're conflating physical hardware with software terms of service. One which you agreed to allow them to change the terms at any time.

Also I wouldn't call what Sony did "Advertising OtherOS". In fact it was not an advertised feature at all beyond a small little Yellow Dog Pengiun on the side of the original box.

Re:Duh, they are a publisher

[dougisfunny]

Here is a product that does X, Y, and Z*.

Disclaimer: We are selling it as X, Y and Z in perpetuity, but in a few years it's going to be only X and Y, and then just X a few years after that. Or X and Z. And eventually X* (because some of X won't be compatible without Y) and Z.

So, not lying, just bait and switch?

Re:Duh, they are a publisher

[Dishevel]

How is that not a bait and switch? Because they didn't plan to do it ahead of time?

Exactly. Bait and Switch is intentional. That is the whole point of bait and switch. It is to get the buyer to commit to something you have no intention of actually delivering. So that you can sell them something else.
Sorry. I though you coming from a place of understanding the terms you were using. Guess I was wrong.

Re:Duh, they are a publisher

[unrtst]

So. While Sony acted stupidly, anyone with any honesty that followed what happened knows that it was neither a lie nor was it "Bait and Switch".

How the hell is that not both lying and bait and switch!?!?

AFAICT, Other OS was an advertised feature right on the front of the box, and there was no mention that it was a temporary feature, nor was there any mention that they planned on disabling it. There was probably some "we can do anything we want with future system updates" type of verbage in the click through license, but all licenses have that, and no one with any honesty would claim that removing a widely advertised feature with an OS update is something that one should expect.

If they had instead removed the abilty to play PS3 games with an OS update that could not be rolled back, would you honestly be saying the same thing? What about blu ray movies? Since it's "primarily" a game machine (as the common argument goes), removing the ability to play blu rays would be on equal footing with removing Other OS, correct? Doing so would leave people with the choice of either:
a) having a PS3 that only plays blu rays and no new games and all online aspects of existing games would cease to function
b) having a PS3 that only plays games, but no longer plays blu rays

That's what it boiled down to, just with Other OS instead. That's deceitful behavior. It's bait and switch. The product isn't just one thing or the other. The product was sold as a sum of its features, and they neutered it.

Hopefully now they do hate M$

[Coeurderoy]

One of the main issue with "consoles" is that it really is controled by a bunch of sociopath focusing on how to put the maximum of toll boths to efficiently bleed the marcs..

Under the pretext of make the experience "safe", you need the get some sort of "authorisations" from the console makers, and now it seems that Microsoft feels strong (or is weak) enough to add an additional hurdle to avoid "wasting their time" with the unwashed masses.

I hope that "android" consoles become popular (and that it will not end up with Google doing exactly the same thing M$ is doing ....

Abusive Monopolist

[tuppe666]

Microsoft has a culture of "cutting off their nose to spite their face."

No they don't they are simply the same bullying Abusive Monopoly they always are. There technique is abusive compromise...with the users doing all the compromising. They start with being over-reaching...and then step back ( a little) when users revolt, and repeat at the next iteration. IT has been incredibly successful at slowly eroding users rites.

Indie publishers got the short end of the stick on the 360 this is simply a continuation of that. my personal favourite http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/07/20/1540247/microsoft-taking-heat-for-five-figure-xbox-360-patch-fee the patch fee :)

Re:Abusive Monopolist

[yoshi_mon]

What I've seen is that there is a full generation (maybe 1 and 1/2s worth?) of people now who did not grow up during MS's rise to power. About how there was a full blown ecosystem of computers, OSs, and paths that could have been taken to further ITs mainstream adoption. And instead of living though all of that they grew up with WinXP, XBoxen, and a Bill Gates who married a hot chick and is philanthropic. (And how he got all that money is a distant and well polished over memory.)

So while I'm quite sure that there still remain the MS paid shills, fanboys, and the apathetic masses. There also is a new generation of legit geeks that did not live though what MS did. And as such their view on what MS is/does is different than those of us who were around when MS built and then consolidated their empire.

Re:And?

[TWiTfan]

MS used to have XNA, and basically let anyone publish on the 360 with just a $100 a year license. Not sure why they abandoned such a forward-thinking program. But it does fit in with the general MS stance of making every fucking wrong move imaginable over the last 3-4 years, and scrapping every decent idea they ever had.

Sometimes I think Blamer has secretly gone nuts, and no one has the balls to have him committed. It would certainly explain why he's absent from MS public events these days. But at least Howard Hughes was smart enough to delegate well after *he* went batshit. Balmer, by contrast, seems determined to not only collect all his urine in jars, but also to run his company off the cliff.

Nintendo + Apple

[tuppe666]

Forget Xbox, the iOS consoles are already massively popular.

I original poster was making the point that their are a few Android consoles about, as an alternative...I believe Mad Catz (yes that one) is about to add to the already popular Android console market.

iOS does not have a gaming console, as Steve Jobs was pretty anti-games. There was a rumour about them buying Nintendo which I suspect would have been an incredible match. Instead they spent their time making criminal deals with book publishers.

I do think it would be a great move to turn AppleTV boxes into mini consoles even is it is only using the iPhone as a gamepad, but they are more interested in taking about bullshit design...rather than real innovation.

Re:Is MS *TRYING* to commit suicide?

[Greyfox]

There is a tendency in corporate culture to drink the kool aid the top is serving. Take SGI. Perfect example. They had no clear strategy a bit over a decade ago and I outright confronted one of their sales reps about it and asked him why I should buy their products when I knew IBM would be around 10 years from now. He gave me some bullshit response that SGI had solid products and platforms and they were out of business less than a year later. If someone in the company had just said "We don't have a clear strategy and are going to get crushed by Sun and IBM if we don't develop one," a couple years earlier, they might have been able to pull it out. They did have some things they actually did better than other companies, they just chose to throw all that away and try to pursue the same course IBM and Sun were. Even Sun couldn't pull THAT shit off.

So maybe Microsoft DOES actually believe, in their isolated corporate culture, that their platform is strong enough to get away with the shit they're trying to pull. Gamers have no loyalty and everyone has already decided to jettison them. Some people are changing consoles, some people are going to PC gaming. Microsoft could save itself a lot of money and just scrap the entire Xbox line right now. If Sony offered an easy path for indie developers, the Xbox developer landscape would be a barren wasteland within a year.

Re:Is MS *TRYING* to commit suicide?

[TWiTfan]

The only thing I can figure is that it's a combination of the isolated echo-chamber (where they only hear each other saying positive things) and some misguided attempt to imitate Steve Jobs' "Screw the consumer, we'll tell them what they want!" attitude (but missing the fact that Jobs had a virtual cult that would follow him anywhere).

If you have to buy two PS3s

[tepples]

Sony also made new PS3 disc games require Other OS-incompatible firmware, which defeated the purpose of Other OS which was to have Linux and games on one device. If people knew that they'd have to keep one PS3 for Other OS and buy a second PS3 for playing new games, they would have bought a PC instead in the first place.

Re:If you have to buy two PS3s

[drinkypoo]

If people knew that they'd have to keep one PS3 for Other OS and buy a second PS3 for playing new games, they would have bought a PC instead in the first place.

Historically, Sony lies a lot. I would expect Sony to continue to lie a lot based on their past performance.