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Android Fragmentation Isn't Hurting Its Adoption

Nerval's Lobster writes "Apple's developer Website offers a new, handy graph of iOS fragmentation — which, of course, highlights that the mobile operating system isn't fragmented much at all. A full 93 percent of iOS users are on iOS 6, the latest version; another 6 percent rely on iOS 5; and a mere 1 percent use an earlier iOS. Compare that to Google Android, which really is fragmented: some 33 percent of Android devices run some variant (either 4.1.x or 4.2.x) of the 'Jelly Bean' build, while 36.5 percent run a version of 'Gingerbread,' which was first released in December 2010 — ancient history, in mobile-software terms. (Other versions take up varying slices of the Android pie.) For years, Google's rivals have used the 'Android is fragmented' argument to hype their own platforms. But is Android's fragmentation really hurting the platform? Not as far as global shipments are concerned. According to recent data from research firm IDC, Android's market-share stood at 75 percent in the first quarter of 2013 — up from 59.1 percent in the same quarter a year ago. Meanwhile, iOS owned 17.3 percent of the market — compared to 23.1 percent in the year-ago quarter. Whatever the drawbacks of fragmentation (and people can name quite a few), it's clear that it's not really hurting Android device shipments or adoption."

307 of 419 comments (clear)

  1. Misses the point by Score+Whore · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The argument presented doesn't seem to actually grasp the point of the comparisons. On one hand you may be interested in market share. But when Apple presents the issue at WWDC they're not talking about market share. They are talking about what the actual platforms in use are and which ones are going to present the best area for developers to target. Three different versions of android are going to present three different APIs that app developers are going to have to deal with. On the iOS side you can target iOS 6 and know that you're be hitting almost the entire market segment.

    1. Re:Misses the point by aergern · · Score: 2

      It's the same with targeting Android 4.0.x as the baseline. You will hit 75% of the Android market. There are some folks who just use their phone to talk and text ... Android 2.2.x will do that until their phones break so they will not upgrade until they have to. Folks need to stop whining about fragmentation and target the majority because most of those "good enough" phones with 2.2.x on them will just be around ... it's not like they can be revoked or have a newer version that's crippled. It is what it is.

      --
      Tell me what you believe...I'll tell you what you should see.
    2. Re:Misses the point by SQLGuru · · Score: 1

      Also, how much of the sales of Android are BECAUSE of the fragmentation? Or in other words, is Android successful BECAUSE of fragmentation? If I had a device that continued to be upgraded from 3.x to 4.x and beyond, would I be so anxious to jump to the new versions (sort of like how the 4s wasn't a big enough reason to jump from the 4)?

    3. Re:Misses the point by maccodemonkey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's the same with targeting Android 4.0.x as the baseline. You will hit 75% of the Android market. There are some folks who just use their phone to talk and text ... Android 2.2.x will do that until their phones break so they will not upgrade until they have to. Folks need to stop whining about fragmentation and target the majority because most of those "good enough" phones with 2.2.x on them will just be around ... it's not like they can be revoked or have a newer version that's crippled. It is what it is.

      So if Google announced a major new version tomorrow how long would it be before I could exclusively target that version? Talking about 4.0 is good and all, but 4.0 is two years old. 2.3 is three years old. It's not exactly a huge achievement that you can target 4.0, especially if that means if Google released a major update tomorrow it would take two years to be able to realistically target that version.

      That's Apple's point. They're saying on iOS you can make that transition in three months, not two years.

    4. Re:Misses the point by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 2

      Get real. Probably 3/4 of the iDevice 'market share/install base' won't even run iOS 6. Apple obsoletes their hardware quickly. I have three iPod Touches and they've all been abandoned by Apple to varying degrees. I am heartily disappointed at how quickly App developers 'buy into' the new API bells and whistles and push themselves off devices whose paying customers might want to buy their product.

      It's painfully obvious to anybody with an older iDevice that Apple is a hardware vendor first and abandons the hardware primarily to sell more new gadgets.

      Yeah. "Get a new gadget." Why be the dummy with the old stuff. There's new shiney and you're not cool if you don't wait in line for it.

    5. Re:Misses the point by steelfood · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They're saying on iOS you have to make that transition in three months, not two years.

      FTFY.

      To look at it another way, if you don't transition when Apple does, you're hosed.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    6. Re:Misses the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I have a 2.x phone. I am considering upgrading. But really the apps I have work fine on it (oh I had other ideas when I first bought it). The screen is decent and the battery life is not in the toilet the voice quality is iffy (but many are). I have all of my 'must have apps' for the thing already.

      Do I want a new shiny phone? Oh hell yes.
      Do I really need one? Not particularly.

    7. Re:Misses the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why does it matter, as an app developer? If your program runs without a force close and doesn't use any specific features to an Android version, your app shouldn't care if it is running on the latest code.

      Same with iOS. There are a lot of things where I can release an app and it shouldn't care if it runs on iOS 4, 4.1, 4.2, 5, 6, or 6.1.

      Why as an app developer would you exclusively target a version and lock everything else out, unless one is in the "latest and greatest" mentality, which is easy to get into, but is really a poor mindset to be in.

    8. Re:Misses the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Guess what - 33% (Jellybean segment) of 75% (total android market share) is 24% of the total market... which is still more than iOS's 17%... Even considering fragmentation, Apple is still falling behind.

    9. Re:Misses the point by kwark · · Score: 1

      "So if Google announced a major new version tomorrow how long would it be before I could exclusively target that version?"

      The day they release the SDK.

    10. Re:Misses the point by hedwards · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You wouldn't target 4.0.x, unless of course there's a feature that isn't in previous versions that you need. For the most part, the 2.x versions have most of the stuff people need, targeting a newer version should really only be done when you need to. There's no point in throwing out users if you don't have to.

      The bigger issue with the older phones is the storage size and the amount of RAM available.

    11. Re:Misses the point by sjames · · Score: 2

      No. If you want maximum coverage, target API 10 and you cover 95% of all Android devices.

      If you really want the latest API features and aren't as concerned with compatibility, choose a later API.

    12. Re:Misses the point by noh8rz10 · · Score: 1

      "So if Google announced a major new version tomorrow how long would it be before it would be worth my valuable and scarce time to target that version?"

    13. Re:Misses the point by hedwards · · Score: 1

      I'm still using a Nexus One, and the only reason that I'm going to be upgrading in the near future, is storage capacity. Having a larger screen would be nice, but the internal storage capacity is insufficient for running more than a few apps at any given time. And I often have to uninstall something in order to upgrade it due to space limitations.

      Fragmentation has never been the issue that Apple suggests that it is. I'd much rather deal with that and get to make some UI choices, than be locked into Apple's way of doing thing.

    14. Re:Misses the point by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, exactly. A lot of the reason Gingerbread sticks around is because it's not a bad OS at all and it is the last version that had non-OpenGL based graphics. So it can run on pretty meagre hardware compared to ICS+. Some manufacturers are using Android's openness to fix the OS version and push down the price rather than keep price stable and push up the OS. Both approaches are valid and both are needed - the fact that Apple is blind to this market reality says more about them than Android.

      Anyway this ignores the fact that Apple routinely updates older devices to the 'latest' OS that is actually something claiming to be the latest version, but doesn't have most of the new features. It's easy to play games with version numbers if you simply strip out anything requiring the latest hardware and still call it the latest OS.

    15. Re:Misses the point by scot4875 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In other words, as the user of an iOS device that is no longer supported, you can expect the market to leave you behind in a few months, rather than a few years.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    16. Re:Misses the point by msauve · · Score: 2

      "Three different versions of android are going to present three different APIs that app developers are going to have to deal with."

      You're claiming that all Android APIs change with each new version? Changes only occur to a small subset - mostly because it adds functionality which benefits developers, and with a strong desire to maintain backward compatibility. And a significant part of the fragmentation is to support consumer choice. I'll assert it's only the apps which push the boundaries which are meaningfully impacted, I've got apps which ran on my OG Droid running on my current phone, with no updates.

      Microsoft seems to change APIs greatly between Windows releases, yet it hasn't seemed to hurt them much (UI changes are a different issue) - that's the advantage of market share.

      But, more directly to your point - Android market share is 4x that of iOs, so even if a developer had to do 3 different codestreams for 3 completely different APIs, they'd still be ahead developing for Android, even ignoring the efficiencies offered by what is in common, and the uncertainty of getting into the walled garden.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    17. Re:Misses the point by mosb1000 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For example: hey changed the way their Facebook and other social networking logins work so that it's a lot easer to integrate into an iOS 6 app than it was before. That means if you're developing a social networking app for iOS, you're going to have a much easier time if you make it for version 6 rather than version 5. With iOS, you can take advantage of new features right away. When Google makes things better for the android developers, they have to wait 2 years or so before they can implement them if they want their app to be accessible to most users.

      When Apple releases a new version, like 7, they release a developer preview. If I started an app for iOS 7 today, and planned to release it when apple releases iOS 7, I could expect that most iOS users would be able to use the app within a month of it's release. That's impossible with android.

    18. Re:Misses the point by kwark · · Score: 1

      The day you have a phone that runs the latest version.

    19. Re: Misses the point by Redmancometh · · Score: 2

      Anyone who posts on slashdot has plenty of time. Porting an app accross android versions is also trivial.

    20. Re:Misses the point by Luthair · · Score: 1

      Note where Apple collects the stats from.... the app store. It stands to reason that users with older hardware are probably less active users and will be under represented.

    21. Re:Misses the point by greg1104 · · Score: 1

      I'd be quite happy if Android vendors did any sort of backport to older devices, even a hobbled one with the latest features stripped out. Apple's platform has plenty of issues around running on older hardware, sure. Their record for continuously pushing out security updates to devices that are a few years old is, on average, way ahead of everything but the Nexus Android phones though. The way vendors abandon old hardware in Android land is building a frighteningly large installed base of badly secured phones out there. One component to the cheaper Android phones is that they're putting $0 into worrying about any long-term security issues on that hardware, and I worry about how that will bite everyone in the ass one day.

    22. Re:Misses the point by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      > So if Google announced a major new version tomorrow how long would it be before I
      > could exclusively target that version?

      Depends upon whether your new app needs immediate sales, and whether you're talking about an expensive app that needs best-of-breed hardware to run acceptably well, anyway. If your app will suck on anything less than a GNex/S3/Note2/Nexus4/OneX, you won't lose many real sales by requiring 4.1, and probably won't lose many more by aiming for 4.2.

      Just don't make the mistake of setting the hardware/version bar high, then releasing an app that sucks. Aim high, knock everybody's socks off, and you'll do OK. Aim low & avoid sucking, and you'll probably make some cash anyway. Aim high & suck, and you'll get buried under bad reviews & refunds.

    23. Re:Misses the point by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      Why write for all three? In my limited experience, the people still running gingerbread, who have pressed "No, don't update" on their phones are the ones who use their phones for texting, e-mails, as a camera, facebook... and that's it. Maybe they'll download instagram or twitter, and play with angry birds for a while, but they're not downloading the hot new app all the kids are talking about wherever it is young people talk about phones. Just release it for the current one and let them update if they want it.

    24. Re:Misses the point by rsborg · · Score: 1, Informative

      They're saying on iOS you have to make that transition in three months, not two years.

      FTFY.

      To look at it another way, if you don't transition when Apple does, you're hosed.

      Untrue. Most Apps built for iOS5 are often a few recompiles away from running on iOS6. Of course, you'll need to do a bit of coding to get your App to use new libraries.

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    25. Re:Misses the point by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Also, how much of the sales of Android are BECAUSE of the fragmentation? Or in other words, is Android successful BECAUSE of fragmentation? If I had a device that continued to be upgraded from 3.x to 4.x and beyond, would I be so anxious to jump to the new versions (sort of like how the 4s wasn't a big enough reason to jump from the 4)?

      Android IS successful because of fragmentation. Because it means device makers can scale their devices to whatever price point they way. For example, you can have a flagship phone like an SGS4. But you can also make a crap phone for $100 and call it Android as well. The big thing is that carriers LOVE cheap phones - they get you in a contract for a $100 off contract phone? Lots of money for them. In fact, the biggest Android phones by sales volumes ARE the free phones.

      Yes, the previous SGS3 sold a lot, but it isn't for example, the majority of Android phones sold (it's around 10%). The rest of the phone sales went to Samsung's other cheaper models.

      People see an iPhone 5 on the shelf, see the $300 price tag, and get turned off. People see a Samsung Galaxy Whatchamacallit for $0 in big bold letters? Sold. Doesn't matter that the screen is "small", or that the processor is barely 1GHz, if that, or it has 512MB of RAM, and ships with 2.3.

      It's free. That's all that matters.

      So yes, fragmentation helps because manufacturers can make "free phones" carriers love to ship that take little subsidy over the flagships and iPhones.

      Of course, it also means a lot of Android users have POS phones that run poorly. Which can explain why the user satisfaction with Android is on the low side (it's lower than Windows Phone...). The people who love them are the ones who spend the money for the SGS4 and the like, but they're the minority. Everyone else just gets a POS crap that barely runs Android.

    26. Re:Misses the point by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Loads of people have phones for which there is no update, even though their phone is capable of running ics or jb. I'll go to JB when my touchpads work properly on it.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    27. Re:Misses the point by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      Ascendent compatibility. Ever heard of it?

    28. Re:Misses the point by Pieroxy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Are you kidding? iOS6 runs on every iPhone down to the iPhone 3GS released in June 8, 2009. That's more than 4 years ago. Do you want to compare that to Android average upgrade path across all manufacturers? How many Android phones actually *can* run the latest OS after 4 years of service?

      Easy to bash Apple, but on some points they do hold their ground much better than 90% of Android manufacturers. Try not to bash them on those points, will you?

    29. Re: Misses the point by noh8rz10 · · Score: 1

      +1 truest thing I've read all day.

    30. Re:Misses the point by noh8rz10 · · Score: 1

      yes but if I have a pile of bug reports I'm working through? should I prioritze targeting the new version? for me, targeting the new version means writing code that takes advantage of new features in the new version. but wha't sthe bother if nobody has it anyway?

    31. Re:Misses the point by Score+Whore · · Score: 1

      I would hope you'd perform a more comprehensive analysis and note that not only does iOS present you with fewer targets to develop for, the iTunes App store also results in greater revenue even though it represents a smaller portion of the market.

    32. Re:Misses the point by sincewhen · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure that this is right. I agree that newer phones probably see more usage and more app purchases. But all iOS phones check in looking for updates. So, if the phone is switched on, it will show up in Apple's stats.

      --
      -- Braden's law of data: All data spends some of its lifetime in an excel spreadsheet.
    33. Re:Misses the point by DrGamez · · Score: 1

      I actually just upgraded from my Nexus One to a Nexus 4 this week, because of that internal memory problem. It wasn't a problem when facebook and GMaps were 10mb, but now Facebook is 12mb, and Maps is near 30mb, and you can't uninstall them, just the updates!

    34. Re:Misses the point by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      The day you have a phone that runs the latest version.

      If I bought an iPhone 4 back in July 2010, I have a phone that I can update to iOS 7 the day it is released, regardless of carrier. How many Android phones released in 2010 can run the latest OS?

    35. Re:Misses the point by Karlt1 · · Score: 2

      Anyway this ignores the fact that Apple routinely updates older devices to the 'latest' OS that is actually something claiming to be the latest version, but doesn't have most of the new features. It's easy to play games with version numbers if you simply strip out anything requiring the latest hardware and still call it the latest OS.

      Developers don't care as long as they have a consistent API to target. None of the features left off of older phones upgrading to a new OS effects developers.

    36. Re:Misses the point by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      Get real. Probably 3/4 of the iDevice 'market share/install base' won't even run iOS 6.

      Your numbers don't add up -- Apple just said that 93% of users are using iOS 6. IPhone sales dwarf iPod Touch sales.

      Every iPhone since at least the 3GS has been able to run 3 years of iOS updates.

    37. Re:Misses the point by sl149q · · Score: 1

      My four year old iPod Touch still works fine with iOS 5.

      My four year old iPhone 3GS still works fine with iOS 6.

      I fully expect my one year old iPhone 5 to work with every version of iOS for AT LEAST the next three years.

      I can't see how you can compare that the the typical Android users experience of getting maybe one major upgrade a year or two after release or describe it as Apple abandoning the platform.

    38. Re:Misses the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Pretty much anything supported by the community, which is most Android devices. See Cyanogenmod and xda-developers. I'm running 4.2.2 on both my O2X and O4X without issue.

    39. Re:Misses the point by PixetaledPikachu · · Score: 1

      if you're going the unlocking and rooting route, a lot. So how many 2010 apple phones can run the latest OS? one? two?

    40. Re:Misses the point by murdocj · · Score: 2

      All I know is I can't get past iOS 4.x on my ITouch and I can't buy software for it anymore. Which kinda sucks. I can still buy software to run on XP Windows... but not my ITouch. Even software that is claimed to run on it gives a "requires at least iOS xyz"... AFTER I've bought it.

    41. Re:Misses the point by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      Apple introduced one new phone in 2010 -- the 3GS and as of today it runs the latest OS.

      Apple sold two phone models in 2010 -- the 3G and 3GS. So half of all of the phone models that Apple sold in 2010 run the latest OS.

    42. Re:Misses the point by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof.

      Examples please.

    43. Re:Misses the point by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      Any luck with Cedia and jailbreaking it? The jailbreaks still work don't they?

    44. Re:Misses the point by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      the 33% of android users on android 4 (of the 75% of mobile users on android) is still greater than the 93% of iOS 6 users (of the 17% of mobile users on iOS) ... by factor of 1.7x.

      so android developers can code to android 4 and still target 1.7x more developers than iOS 6.

      p.s., android 3 is where the big UI paradigm shift happened ... so coding to android 4 (vs. android 4.1.x, or 4.2.x) is quite reasonable.

    45. Re:Misses the point by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      Talking about 4.0 is good and all, but 4.0 is two years old.

      4.0 (well, actually 3.0) is where the major UI shift happened. you can easily code to 4.0.x APIs and target all 4.x devices. and by doing that, you target more users than if you targeted iOS 6.

    46. Re:Misses the point by farble1670 · · Score: 2

      For the most part, the 2.x versions have most of the stuff people need, targeting a newer version should really only be done when you need to. There's no point in throwing out users if you don't have to.

      this isn't really true. there are major UI shifts in 4.0 (actually 3.0) that mean writing dual code paths for a lot of things. action bars vs. options menu. contextual action bars vs. context menus. those are things that almost every app has to deal with. it's a major pain.

    47. Re:Misses the point by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      Their record for continuously pushing out security updates to devices that are a few years old is, on average, way ahead of everything but the Nexus Android phones though.

      the nexus s was released in 2010, and is currently running android 4.1.2.

    48. Re:Misses the point by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      Meanwhile your buddy, with a two or three year old Android phone has never seen an OS update unless they tore into the device to install it on their own...

      if you are going to make obviously untrue claims, it pretty much discounts the rest of your post, which may (or may not) have contained some good points.

    49. Re:Misses the point by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      In other words, as the user of a brand new Android device, you can expect the market to gradually leave you behind during the normal, expected life of your device, rather than waiting until after your hardware is beyond when it should have been replaced.

      With both Android devices and iDevices, you'll see the latest and greatest hardware struggle to keep up after a few years, meaning that it's time to replace the device, regardless of the level of support it still has. With iOS, 93% of devices are currently enjoying the latest apps and latest features (hardware permitting) of the latest version of the OS, and have done so for their entire lives. Contrast that with Android, where over 2/3 of devices are stuck with a version of the OS that is gradually being abandoned and will never experience the latest apps and the latest features (regardless of their hardware) of the latest version of the OS at any point in their life.

      Android would be far stronger today if it could get this issue resolved, and everyone here knows it. Yet somehow you paint it as a positive that the majority of users are holding back the advancement of the platform by preventing developers from embracing the latest features and advancements, all while living with a sub-par experience because they're unable to enjoy the benefits that are already available on later versions of the OS. The argument makes no sense.

    50. Re:Misses the point by PixetaledPikachu · · Score: 1

      half meaning.. one? it's just not apple that tries to sugarcoat their facts, their fanboys too :D

    51. Re:Misses the point by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      half meaning.. one? it's just not apple that tries to sugarcoat their facts, their fanboys too :D

      Well he asked how many phones were upgrade able in 2010. Apple only sold two models of phones in 2010.

      My facts were true.....

    52. Re:Misses the point by whisper_jeff · · Score: 1

      And what was untrue about that statement? The majority (I would dare say vast majority) of Android phones _NEVER_ see a system update. A few do and even fewer get OS updates in anything vaguely approaching a timely manner. People may be able to update their OS on their own but they rarely get that update pushed to them.

      Please feel free to point out the factual inaccuracy there.

    53. Re:Misses the point by DJRumpy · · Score: 1

      Also ironic that they are slamming the fact that a 4 year old phone doesn't get all of the features of a brand new device with new hardware, when the old phones that never see an update get none of the new features offered by an OS update. Unless they are skilled enough to jailbreak, or even know what to look for, they just stick with whatever it came with, security exposures and all.

    54. Re:Misses the point by maccodemonkey · · Score: 1

      Why does it matter, as an app developer? If your program runs without a force close and doesn't use any specific features to an Android version, your app shouldn't care if it is running on the latest code.

      But isn't using new features specific to new Android versions the point? If it isn't, Google should just stop including new APIs in new versions of Android, right?

      Android 4.0 comes with a bunch of API advances but you can't effectively use them while you're supporting 2.3. Not without greatly increased overhead.

    55. Re:Misses the point by Dr+Max · · Score: 1

      You might get the same ios number as the latest phone, but it's hardly the same ios, it'll be lacking half of the good new features.

      --
      Rocket Surgeon.
    56. Re:Misses the point by maccodemonkey · · Score: 1

      You might get the same ios number as the latest phone, but it's hardly the same ios, it'll be lacking half of the good new features.

      Again, doesn't matter in the context of being a developer. Even if it's lacking half the user facing features, it still gets the new APIs, and you can write software against the new APIs that still work on the device.

    57. Re:Misses the point by tibman · · Score: 4, Informative

      With android you just use the compatibility library and you get all the newest features.. even on a phone several years old. https://developer.android.com/tools/extras/support-library.html

      --
      http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
    58. Re:Misses the point by denmarkw00t · · Score: 1

      "Price range" is misleading - the iPhone is ~ $800 unsubsidized - if you're buying an $800 Android phone it better damn well run the latest version...and shit rainbows out of the USB port when in Debugging Mode.

    59. Re:Misses the point by denmarkw00t · · Score: 1

      Facts - 3.2 is the only 3.x line considered in the Android dashboard. The "UI Shift" of Honeycomb was an outlier, with some components of pre 3.x and 3.x making it into 4.x. 4.x is Jelly Bean. 0.1% of the market is on 3.2 and almost 60% are on some variant of 4.x. 60% (rounded even) is much less than roughly 90% on iOS.

    60. Re:Misses the point by denmarkw00t · · Score: 1

      *Yawn*

      I'm sure you meant iOS 7, as another commenter pointed out, 6 is on 93% of iDevices in the wild. As for 7, Apple's site states:

      iOS 7 will be compatible with:

      - iPhone 4
      - iPhone 4S
      - iPhone 5
      - iPod touch 16GB
      - iPod touch 32GB/64GB
      - iPad 2
      - iPad with Retina display
      - iPad mini

      So, 3 phones, 2 iPods, 3 iPads. Considering the oldest phone came out in, what, 2010? Not bad, and quite expected. Being able to upgrade, no worry, to the latest iOS on my phone from back then is wonderful. No rooting, no unlocking, no futzing or worrying about deciding to keep supporting my hardware so I don't have to shell out for a new contract and/or phone every 2 years. In contrast, my girlfriend's Xperia X10 came out around the same time as the iPhone 4 - I spent nearly a month rooting, unlocking, restarting, repeating. We're semi-stable on CM10 with the latest kernel, and it's still super flakey. The stock OS is horrid - no control on stock apps, the theme is super heavy on resources, and Sony has not and probably never will offer any kind of upgrade through official channels. My Nook Color will never see a decent Android update. I have friends at work who, even with the technical knowhow, will absolutely not root or unlock their Android devices because of the hassle and the fear - despite having capable hardware, they'll be in 2.x land forever or until they upgrade. Buy the newest iPhone? You'll be solid on updates for at least 3 years, period.

    61. Re:Misses the point by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      Pretty much every app has 2.2.x support simply due to the massive installed base, and the fact that they keep rolling out 2.x.x phones in emerging markets.
       
      It's the Windows XP of the mobile world.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    62. Re:Misses the point by kllrnohj · · Score: 2

      Facts - 3.2 is the only 3.x line considered in the Android dashboard. The "UI Shift" of Honeycomb was an outlier, with some components of pre 3.x and 3.x making it into 4.x. 4.x is Jelly Bean. 0.1% of the market is on 3.2 and almost 60% are on some variant of 4.x. 60% (rounded even) is much less than roughly 90% on iOS.

      60% of Android is *greater than* 90% of iOS, not less.

    63. Re:Misses the point by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, that doesn't address the issue I raised of the platform's own users holding back the advancement of the platform by forcing developers to cater to the lowest common denominator.

    64. Re:Misses the point by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      When you see the message 'Requires iOS ...' the purchased isn't being charged to your credit card, so you haven't bought it. But I guess you knew it. And here I am feeding the trolls again.

    65. Re:Misses the point by sdsucks · · Score: 1

      WTF? Apple does not obsolete their hardware quickly. I bought my first iPhone in 2009. It was a 3GS, and is still supported by the upcoming iOS7.

      4 years? WTF are you expecting, exactly?

    66. Re:Misses the point by black6host · · Score: 1

      Android 4.0 comes with a bunch of API advances but you can't effectively use them while you're supporting 2.3. Not without greatly increased overhead.

      As a developer there are all kinds of choices, most hopefully to be made to maximize return. BUT, you're not forced to support 2.3.x, or 4.x. Or even Android at all.

      If it makes sense, it will happen. Those that guess wrong will not thrive.

      Please note, this post is in no way an endorsement of either product...

    67. Re:Misses the point by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The reality is that it's easy to optionally support features only available in newer versions of the API while still being compatible with Gingerbread. Besides which the newer APIs are usually related to features that older phones don't have, so just like on iOS you have to cope with them not being available.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    68. Re:Misses the point by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      If you target all the wonderful features of iOS6 you still need to support older hardware that doesn't run some of it. You could build Siri support into your app, but it better work without it or anyone with an older iPhone or iPad or iPod won't be able to run it even if they have iOS6.

      Fragmentation is about more than just the OS version. Available hardware varies, CPU/GPU speed varies, screen resolution varies, camera resolution varies etc.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    69. Re:Misses the point by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The trade off for this extra work is that the market is much larger, and you can sell to groups who are completely ignored by Apple because they can only afford or only want cheaper devices.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    70. Re:Misses the point by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      "Runs" is a bit of an exaggeration. It crawls along on a 3GS and most of the new headline features are not supported.

      iOS is fragmented, just like Android, because as a developer you can't rely on every device running iOSx to support every feature.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    71. Re:Misses the point by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Because each iteration makes a number of things easier, some substantially easier.

      How is the support library not easy?

      You are about to see a huge wave of iOS application updates with iOS7, incorporating lots of advanced system features. As Android updates lag in adoption it becomes harder and harder to maintain parity with iOS versions of applications that are just plain simpler to write and have more powerful features.

      And why can't this be achieved with the support library?

      Why as an application developer would not not make use of updated OS features that shaves tens or hundreds of hours of coding time, when you know that 80-90% of the target market will be able to run it?

      As an application developer, why would you shun the support library that brings new functionality from new versions to older platforms?

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    72. Re:Misses the point by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Can you explain to me why developers using the support library is not a solution to this problem?

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    73. Re:Misses the point by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      I don't understand how using the support library is holding them back, can you explain this further?

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    74. Re:Misses the point by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Or you could just use the support library and get all the benefits of newer APIs on older versions.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    75. Re:Misses the point by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      The other advantage with Android is the support library, it lets you use newer APIs on older systems. I don't believe this is available on iOS.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    76. Re:Misses the point by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      This may come as some surprise to you but if you target API14 you will get forwards compatibility to API15, 16, and 17 too. Honestly I haven't seen anything "new" in the mobile app world since Froyo brought multitouch support, and that includes iOS apps. Nearly all non-hardware specific apps (such as weather stations using the phone's own barometer) would have no problem using early APIs.

    77. Re:Misses the point by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      I happen to use an iPhone 3GS on iOS6 and no, it is does not crawl at all. iOS4 was a clear mistake on that front, iOS5 was much better and iOS6 runs just fine.

      Of course iOS is fragmented, but the point Apple is making is that it is MUCH less fragmented than Android.

      Again, as I said, if you want to bash Apple, at least choose an area where they're lagging behind the competition. There are plenty of those. Platform fragmentation isn't one of them. Old devices support neither.

    78. Re:Misses the point by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      and shit rainbows out of the USB port when in Debugging Mode.

      If my Samsung phone can do this, I want to known how to disable it!

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    79. Re:Misses the point by otuz · · Score: 1

      And that's a 2007 device, isn't it?

    80. Re:Misses the point by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 2
      The vast majority of Android phones are Samsung, and here in the UK we often get monthly os upgrades from our carriers (I am on 3, but I have friends on other carriers get upgrades too). The lack of upgrades in the USA is a US problem, not an Android problem.

      My 3 year old HTC runs the latest Cyanogenmod the hardware supports (bloatware drove me crazy), and I also have a Symbian phone with the latest Symbian 60 it supports (upgraded automatically by PC suite - the only reason I boot Windows).

      In summary: If your Android phone is not running the latest version - dont sign with the carrier when upgrade time comes - and if you actually care, go Cyanogenmod and remove the bloatware.

      Most Apps for any OS are diabolical crap - I have paid (or donated) for stuff I wanted, that worked, but I wont pay for stuff I dont want, or stuff that wont work! 95% of crap developers target Android because the barriers to creating crap are low.

      Always check the app does not have permission to send premium rate text messages before you install it

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    81. Re:Misses the point by whisper_jeff · · Score: 1

      Your device is running 4.2 Jelly Bean?

    82. Re:Misses the point by sdsucks · · Score: 1

      Troll? LOL @ Slashdot. Again.

      Troll = something you don't like eh?

    83. Re:Misses the point by sdsucks · · Score: 1

      Modded zero, without a single counterpoint. Win again for you, Samsung fans.

    84. Re:Misses the point by Bogtha · · Score: 1

      Most Apps built for iOS5 are often a few recompiles away from running on iOS6.

      No, that's not true, it would be awful if that were the case. Virtually all applications built for iOS 5 will run unmodified on iOS 6, no recompile needed. If there's an app that runs on an earlier version of iOS but not a newer version, chances are, the developers have done something they shouldn't have.

      That's one of the reasons behind some of Apple's rules - e.g. you can't use undocumented APIs because they might not be there in the same form in the next version of iOS, or you can't modify an Apple control's view hierarchy because they might decide to present something differently in the future.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    85. Re:Misses the point by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      actually you just go with the lowest thing you can still do your app on with android.
      so 2.3 for most now. there isn't that many api's that provide entirely new application possibilities on 3.x-> really..

      but the point about ios now should be that the days of "drawing your app in photoshop" are already over since there's so much fragmentation.. and by that I just mean different screen sizes. "OMG THE SKY IS FALLING" for many people.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    86. Re:Misses the point by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      For the most part, the 2.x versions have most of the stuff people need, targeting a newer version should really only be done when you need to. There's no point in throwing out users if you don't have to.

      this isn't really true. there are major UI shifts in 4.0 (actually 3.0) that mean writing dual code paths for a lot of things. action bars vs. options menu. contextual action bars vs. context menus. those are things that almost every app has to deal with. it's a major pain.

      only if you're writing to the "rules". NOT EVEN FUCKING GOOGLE THEMSELVES are doing their apps that way. practically every developer just does a compromise. so menu button opens up an action bar. it doesn't work that bad.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    87. Re:Misses the point by rasmusbr · · Score: 1

      In addition to that Google seems to be moving more and more towards adding new features through Google Plays Services, which gets updated on most phones that run Google Play. I think that is probably how they plan to handle the OS fragmentation in the long run, because that way they could add new API:s on a day to day basis.

      The big drawback of that is that developers will need to test for the availability of each new API on each phone at run time and have some sort of fallback mode or a popup that says that the app doesn't work yet on a phone that doesn't yet have a particular API. Also, I would imagine that adding new API:s on a day to day basis to devices with thousands of combinations of hardware, firmware and OS versions will cause 'interesting' unintended consequences and regressions on some devices.

    88. Re:Misses the point by umghhh · · Score: 1

      It is part of developers life. You do not have to love it but it is there.

      You can also look at this in the following way: If you have only one version it is also called monoculture i.e. something that is potentially very efficient but potentially bad at adapting to change.

    89. Re:Misses the point by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      It's the same with targeting Android 4.0.x as the baseline. You will hit 75% of the Android market.

      First of all 75% is not nearly the same as 93%.

      But in any case your claim for 4.0.x is wrong. You have to go back to Gingerbread 2.3.x to get up to 75%. Version 4.0.x is below 50%.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Android-dist-by-dessert.png

    90. Re:Misses the point by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Most Apps built for iOS5 are often a few recompiles away from running on iOS6.

      Most apps build for iOS 5 will run on iOS6 without any recompiles.

    91. Re:Misses the point by smash · · Score: 1

      No, you just do the entrepreneur thing, release a second version with siri support and the new phone owners buy a second copy for another $3 or whatever.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    92. Re:Misses the point by smash · · Score: 1

      It matters because app developers want more feature rich libraries. iOS gives them that within 3 months. Android? They're stuck unable to target those new features for YEARS without alienating most of their potential customer base.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    93. Re:Misses the point by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Really? Do you suck that much as a developer? I have an app that runs on iOS 3.0 all the way through 7.0.

      Its no different than any other OS, it just requires you actually have a clue.

      Do you not know about lazy linking or something? Whats the problem? I can't imagine what you think prevents it from being possible.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    94. Re:Misses the point by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      If you target all the wonderful features of iOS6 you still need to support older hardware that doesn't run some of it.

      If you're targeting iOS 6 you're targeting iOS 6. There's no missing API. Supporting the few differences in hardware is part of the API and well documented.

      Fragmentation is about more than just the OS version. Available hardware varies, CPU/GPU speed varies, screen resolution varies, camera resolution varies etc.

      There's 2 reasons why this is a problem for Android and not for iOS.

      1) On Android the differences, and combinations of differences across all the devices are vast and essentially unknown to a developer. On iOS the variations are small and entirely known.

      2) On iOS within the handful of product lines, features only ever stay the same or improve. Evolution, not fragmentation. With Android it's a fragmented crapshoot.

      Frankly. if you don't appreciate there's an enormous gulf between dealing with the few varieties of iOS device and the vast fragmentation of Android, then you are not a mobile developer.

    95. Re:Misses the point by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Those people buy a lot of apps ... right? I imagine that people looking for dirt cheap android phones are the biggest app purchasers on the planet! Not.

      Again, you miss the point of why developers target iOS rather than Android, and what they WWDC presentation was actually about.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    96. Re:Misses the point by smash · · Score: 1

      There are. And you only need to use them if you want to use the new feature.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    97. Re:Misses the point by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Which market? There's more Android phones sold, but commercial apps? Few Android users will buy apps, meaning that adware the predominent model. And few make that work.

      iOS makes far more money for developers than Android. That's why it's typically the first and often the only platform that serious developers target.

    98. Re:Misses the point by smash · · Score: 1

      Oh you haven't seen anything new, it must not exist :)

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    99. Re:Misses the point by smash · · Score: 1

      The Support Package includes static "support libraries" that you can add to your Android application in order to use APIs that are either not available for older platform versions or that offer "utility" APIs that aren't a part of the framework APIs. The goal is to simplify your development by offering more APIs that you can bundle with your application so you can worry less about platform versions.

      Oh neat, i can have every app I install bloated to shit with half an OS worth of support libraries. Sounds like a winner idea to me!

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    100. Re:Misses the point by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Because its not the same as the actual newer OS? Why is this so hard to grasp? If the support library was a solution, why would you upgrade the OS at all?

      It solves a limited set of problems, and it solves them poorly.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    101. Re:Misses the point by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      The support library is a sticking plaster over the fragmentation problem. It gives some functionality of recent OS versions to devices stuck on old OS versions. It doesn't give you all the APIs of the new version. It's not magic pixie dust.

    102. Re:Misses the point by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      if you're going the unlocking and rooting route, a lot. So how many 2010 apple phones can run the latest OS?

      All of them.

    103. Re:Misses the point by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Chalk and cheese. When talking about 2010 Android phones that can't run the latest Android version, we're talking about Android phones actually RELEASED in 2010. Not ones from earlier years that happened to still be on sale in 2010.

      Apple released the iPhone 4 in 2010. Which means that the 3GS was still the current phone in the early part of the year. But just because the 3G was still on sale doesn't make it a 2010 phone.

      All 2010 iPhones run the latest OS.

    104. Re: Misses the point by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Porting an app from one Android phone to another might be trivial. Porting from one Android version to another might be trivial. Supporting the vast fragmentation of Android OS/Phone combinations is far from trivial, it's a fucking nightmare.

    105. Re:Misses the point by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Your iPod Touch is 5 years old.

    106. Re:Misses the point by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      iOS is fragmented, just like Android, because as a developer you can't rely on every device running iOSx to support every feature.

      Fragmentation is a scalar value not a bool. iOS has a little fragmentation, Android has a vast amount of it.

      And even that understates the difference. On iOS, there's a handful of product lines, all well known by developers, which only improve with time. With Android the numbers of different devices, and the differences between them arbitrary, are so vast it's essentially unknowable.

      That you think them the same makes you either dishonest or not a mobile developer.

    107. Re:Misses the point by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Because it's a band-aid that gives support for a limited number of new APIs on older OSs. It's not a magic shim that transforms an old OS into a new one.

    108. Re:Misses the point by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      And for developers it's a fraction of the money making opportunity of iOS. Which is the thing that matters.

    109. Re:Misses the point by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Can you give an example of which APIs it lacks?

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    110. Re:Misses the point by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      If the support library was a solution, why would you upgrade the OS at all?

      Most people don't have that option and this resolves that problem from a developer stand point.

      It solves a limited set of problems, and it solves them poorly.

      Can you describe why the support library solves them poorly?

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    111. Re:Misses the point by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Oh neat, i can have every app I install bloated to shit with half an OS worth of support libraries. Sounds like a winner idea to me!

      Sounds like they haven't used the support library in the normal way (since it will only include the specific APIs you're using, most applications don't even use that many OS APIs).

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    112. Re:Misses the point by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Because it's a band-aid that gives support for a limited number of new APIs on older OSs

      And which 'missing' APIs specifically is there going to be a problem with for apps?

      It's not a magic shim that transforms an old OS into a new one.

      Of course it isn't, but it resolves the developer issues. Thereby negating problems with users holding the platform's advancement.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    113. Re:Misses the point by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      42% Samsung is not "The vast majority of Android phones".
      http://www.businessinsider.com/samsung-android-market-share-2013-2

      You might get updates for your phone via UK carriers, that doesn't mean that most UK Android users are, let alone people in other non-US countries.

      And the fact that despite that you still choose to use CyanogenMod just underlines how much the stock versions of Android that most users have suck.

    114. Re:Misses the point by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      And which 'missing' APIs specifically is there going to be a problem with for apps?

      What's with putting missing in quotes. Are you denying that it's only a partial solution?

      Of course it isn't, but it resolves the developer issues.

      Clearly it doesn't as real mobile developers (as opposed to the Android fanboys posting here) are complaining of the problems of fragmentation on the platform. And many are avoiding Android as a result.

    115. Re:Misses the point by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Is it missing APIs or not?

    116. Re:Misses the point by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Guess what? iOS developers only care about users that connect to the app store.

      Similarly Googles horribly fragmented figures come from Google Play. Which is almost as significant for Android developers.

      If you were to measure ALL Android devices, Android would look even more fragmented.

    117. Re:Misses the point by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      You're spamming now. But at least this one was good for a laugh:

      I don't believe this is available on iOS.

      iOS doesn't need such a band-aid. It doesn't suffer from the problem in the first place.

    118. Re:Misses the point by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      And yet, it's still not a standard feature to be able to tether and talk on iPhones. You've got to root your phone for that. Unlike on Android, that means you lose other functionality in the process...

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    119. Re:Misses the point by DJRumpy · · Score: 1

      They also don't seem to appreciate the fact that if we replaced 'Android' with IE, then this conversation would be going a totally different direction. I never would have thought I'd see /. sitting here arguing about the merits of someone staying on software that is no longer updated, has security exposures, and is 3-4 years old, and arguing until they are blue in the facet that it's a 'good' thing, or just unimportant.

      This crowd especially should be pushing Google to force handset manufacturer's to keep their gear current, or to at least close vulnerabilities. Claiming Google doesn't have the power to do so is rediculous. The simple fact that you can get an iPhone 3G or iPhone 4 with the latest version of iOS 6 is a good thing. The fact that you can still buy an 'new' Android phone with Gingerbread, is a pretty sad state and not something to be proud of, and no amount of fan cover can hide that fact.

      Getting the latest API isn't the only reason to keep an OS current. All these fans are doing is giving handset vendors a free pass.

    120. Re:Misses the point by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      I can tether and talk on my iPhone just fine, all on a non rooted iPhone. And I don't pay any fee for it. I guess it sucks living in a country where the only carriers that don't suck ... well ... do suck as well.

    121. Re:Misses the point by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      You're spamming now.

      Cool story.

      iOS doesn't need such a band-aid. It doesn't suffer from the problem in the first place.

      Poor drewm1980, his problem doesn't really exist. :(

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    122. Re:Misses the point by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Is it missing APIs or not?

      Some hardware APIs would not be available (not missing) if the OS doesn't support related hardware, such as the EDMA API if the OS doesn't recognise a EDMA peripheral. Generally, if you're developing a universal application, you would have reasonable fall backs or just rely on more generic HAL APIs to deal with this. Alternatively, I would say a closer description is that some APIs are significantly different. For example, providing deprecated API calls, or more detailed API functionality to deal with the differences with APIs, such as dealing with Fragments on different OS levels.

      This is really a non-issue though, because you're targeting the support library rather than a very specific android/hardware setup.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    123. Re:Misses the point by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      A naive observer might conclude that blanketing the entire market like falling snow would be an effective way to get complete coverage.

      BTW, you Apple astrofurfers are special little snowflakes, yes you are. Just please don't melt all in one place when melting time comes. (Pre-emptive commentary to the usual horde of astroturd Apple cultmods.)

      Oh, it seems we flushed out a special little Apple self righteous snowflake or two. You make me sick, and your morally bankrupt company makes me sick. Nice to watch you go down.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    124. Re:Misses the point by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      No seriously go have a read of the API features. They were mostly feature complete for the past 3 years. New APIs add esoteric features such as integration of Google+ contacts into apps, access to temperature gauge, system radio, infrared transmitters, etc. All these features are useful for only a very small subset of Android phones, or a very specific application which is *unlikely* going to get incredibly wide spread adoption. I highlight unlikely as people do have a tendency to gravitate to the strangest things these days.

      But really the developers in this thread are complaining about not knowing which API to target for their next killer app. Yet I look in the top 10 apps on android at the moment. We are currently on API 17. In the top 10 apps on Android store there is one app requiring API 14 (and it is a custom launcher for ICS/Jellybean). The remainder are on API 7. Yes that's right if you want to make the big bucks develop for a system that's 4 years old.

      I'm not saying that there aren't new things. Just that the bitching and moaning of the developers is completely unjustified.
      Not the least because Android offer compatibility packages if you need to target a lower API with a feature of a higher one :-)

    125. Re:Misses the point by Meski · · Score: 1

      Always check the app does not have permission to send premium rate text messages before you install it

      Does that show as a separate warning on the install 'things i can do' dialog?

    126. Re:Misses the point by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      He has a 1st generation iPod Touch, a six year old device. Shipped with iPhone OS v1. That's certainly too old to be supported.

      Similarly the magic pixie dust that you think the Android Support Library is only supplies partial API support gojng back to API Level 4. Users of level 1 to 3 are out of luck.

      Neither platform has support going back to phones with the first OS version.

      But that's NOT the problem Android Compatibility Library is a band aid for. It's a Band Aid over the problem that with Android, MOST users are using a years old version of the OS. That's not true of iOS. 93% of iOS users are on the latest OS version.

    127. Re:Misses the point by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Similarly the magic pixie dust that you think the Android Support Library is only supplies partial API support gojng back to API Level 4. Users of level 1 to 3 are out of luck.

      As far as I am aware, the lowest OS version ever made public with a handset was version 3 (and it was just one handset), and this was on a device that Google offered updates to, and did so all the way to 'Gingerbread' (reached API level 10). So, I don't know what you mean by out of luck. They can update the OS just fine, unlike the iOS users.

      It's a Band Aid over the problem that with Android, MOST users are using a years old version of the OS

      It's a problem? The original argument that these users are holding Android back is shown to be invalid because of the support library.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    128. Re:Misses the point by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Correction: By OS version, I meant API level.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    129. Re:Misses the point by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      The original argument that these users are holding Android back is shown to be invalid because of the support library.

      Show invalid? Strangely, even though there have been Android developers commenting on this story, you're the only one that's trying to claim that.

      No one else would claim a band-aid means there's no injury.

    130. Re:Misses the point by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Posted else where, the argument against it has been:

      the majority of users are holding back the advancement of the platform by preventing developers from embracing the latest features and advancements

      I have pointed out this is not the case with the support library.

      No one else would claim a band-aid means there's no injury.

      Then convince me! Surely you can actually name something specific, in practice, that has visible 'injury' to a good chunk of Android developers and users where the support library fails to accommodate.

      It really isn't that hard to get me to change my opinion if it's the truth, because the truth will likely have evidence of some sort to back you up. So far my actual experiences with the Android platform (development and user wise) haven't shown me 'injuries' or 'preventing developers from embracing the latest features and advancements'.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    131. Re:Misses the point by Harik · · Score: 1

      Except most of the new features you get on a new google release come with back-support libraries (Google or third party) that let you target older platforms. Writing an app for 2.3+ with modern features using HoloEverywhere was nearly as trivial as changing imports from com.android to org.holoeverywhere.

      If you're doing CPU intensive work, you're going to target 4.0+ anyway, simply because no device that runs 2.3 stock has a modern processor in it.

    132. Re:Misses the point by Harik · · Score: 1

      I disagree with your first statement - it's different to argue ease of compatibility between versions vs the benefits of sticking with ancient releases. I don't think anyone is happy about the continued market share of android 2.3, but from a developer perspective it's not world-ending to use some support libraries instead of natives for it. (It bloats the hell out of your base app size, though).

      The unfortunate reality is that phone manufacturers see software updates as a 'feature' to sell newer phones - I don't think this will change barring a radical relicencing of android from Google. One thing that may give them impetus to move along would be forcing unlocked bootloaders - if they don't supply the upgrade, third parties will, and then all their tie-in bloatware goes away.

    133. Re:Misses the point by Harik · · Score: 1

      If they end up doing that it's likely they'll start doing market dependancies - "This app requires fooapi4.5, which will be installed with it."

      The concept of a completely modular OS being updated piecemeal is interesting.

    134. Re:Misses the point by gunzy83 · · Score: 1

      Can you give an example of which APIs it lacks?

      ActionBarCompat was announced at I/O this year so once that arrives in the v4 support library, I can't think of any core functionality that is not a corner case that is not supported.

    135. Re:Misses the point by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      How is the support library not easy?

      It is easy. What it is not is nearly as expansive as iOS6 support libraries, never mind iOS7.

      And why can't this be achieved with the support library?

      Some of it could but a huge number of changes rest on top of an operating system tuned to make them practical to use from the standpoint of performance and battery life for the phone.

      As an application developer, why would you shun the support library that brings new functionality from new versions to older platforms?

      Because if the performance sucks and the battery life is horrible due to my application, *I* am the one that gets blamed, not the platform.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    136. Re:Misses the point by Inda · · Score: 1

      Not sure I can go with "monthly", in the UK.

      My SGS2 has been updated three times since I bought it 18 months ago. On Tesco. Ballsed it up to fuck during last month's update because of all my mods and *cough*pirated*cough* software.

      My wife's SGS2 has been updated twice in 12 months. On Tesco.

      My daughter's SGS2 has been updated once in 12 months. On EE. Actually updates before ours does.

      I'm currently running. 4.1.2, as are the others in my house. Lovely phone, the SGS2. There's no reason to get an upgraded one when this contract runs out.

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    137. Re:Misses the point by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      oh you are right, no two or three year old android phone has EVER received a stock update.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Nexus#Smartphones

      oops.

    138. Re:Misses the point by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      "No one else would claim a band-aid means there's no injury."

      Then convince me!

      Check out all the comments under the story. Literally no one but you is trying to claim that there's no problem because there's the support library. No one.

    139. Re:Misses the point by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      0.1% of the market is on 3.2

      regardless of % of devices running it, UI shift happened in 3.0. thats's where we got the action bar, holo theme, soft keys. contextual action bar, and so on. i wasn't saying anything political, just technical.

      4.x is Jelly Bean

      4.x is NOT jellybean. 4.1+ is jellybean. 4.0.x is ice cream sandwich.

    140. Re:Misses the point by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      action bar is not part of the support libraries. you can use ActionBarSherlock to fake an action bar on 2.x devices.

      for a simple action bar, android 3.x+ translates the context menu to comparable action bar elements. however, if you want to do anything more complex with the action bar, you are stuck in compatibility hell with conditional blocks for different API levels.

    141. Re:Misses the point by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Check out all the comments under the story. Literally no one but you is trying to claim that there's no problem because there's the support library. No one.

      So it's whose correct based on the quantity of people's responses that support that argument? Okay, sure, you're right. My point of view is completely invalid then.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    142. Re:Misses the point by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      My point of view is completely invalid then.

      I'm glad you've come around.

    143. Re:Misses the point by sonamchauhan · · Score: 1

      I second that... upgraded my iPad 1 recently to whatever version of iOS that iTunes recommended. Now, Internet Browsing has now slowed to a crawl with the new browser (same websites, same numbers of open windows/tabs), and the browser crashes more often.

  2. It may not be hurting adoption... by maccodemonkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But that wasn't the point of the graphic. The graphic was created by Apple to tell developers that they should target the newest version of iOS exclusively, if possible.

    Now imagine making that argument on Android. Anyone suggesting that an Android developer should seriously target 4.2 exclusively would be laughed out of the room.

    This article is missing the point. It was a dig at Android for hurting developers, not necessarily users.

    1. Re:It may not be hurting adoption... by Daetrin · · Score: 1

      "some 33 percent of Android devices run some variant (either 4.1.x or 4.2.x) of the 'Jelly Bean' build,"

      "According to recent data from research firm IDC, Android's market-share stood at 75 percent in the first quarter of 2013 â" up from 59.1 percent in the same quarter a year ago. Meanwhile, iOS owned 17.3 percent of the market"

      Targeting just 4.2 is perhaps rather overly specific, unless there are major differences in programming for 4.2 vs 4.1 that i'm not aware of? Given the above numbers if a developer were to target just Jelly Bean they would hit 0.75 * 0.33, or 25% of the total market, compared to the 0.173 * 0.93, or 16% of the total market. That seems like a pretty reasonable choice to me.

      --
      This Space Intentionally Left Blank
    2. Re:It may not be hurting adoption... by sjames · · Score: 1

      It's a fairly weak dig since it's quite easy to target an earlier version. Some of the cool stuff introduced in later versions can be added to your app as a module.

    3. Re:It may not be hurting adoption... by sincewhen · · Score: 1

      Except that you also have to figure in that the average iOS user spends more (20% more?) on apps than the average Android user.

      I have no idea how that breaks up into new phones/old phones, but it would also be a factor to include.

      --
      -- Braden's law of data: All data spends some of its lifetime in an excel spreadsheet.
    4. Re:It may not be hurting adoption... by swillden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This article is missing the point. It was a dig at Android for hurting developers, not necessarily users.

      That was the point of the Apple graphic, sure, but who cares? Developers, sure, but the evidence is that that doesn't matter, because developers will follow the users.

      If you project the trends out another year or two -- and I see no reason why that's an unreasonable thing to do -- we're rapidly approaching the point where even if average Android users spend less money on apps, Android is going to so completely dominate the smartphone market that it won't matter. Already some app developers (particular game makers) are seeing Android revenues surpass iOS revenues, and that's just going to increase.

      Ultimately, if fragmentation doesn't hurt user adoption, it won't hurt developer adoption.

      I actually hope the current trends don't continue; I'd like to see Ubuntu phone or Windows phone, or something, start to gain some share, and for Apple to hold onto its share, because I believe that competition is important.

      (Disclaimer: I work for Google, but they don't speak for me and I don't speak for them.)

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    5. Re:It may not be hurting adoption... by tbannist · · Score: 1

      Except that you also have to figure in that the average iOS user spends more (20% more?) on apps than the average Android user.

      Even using that number, you're still better off with Target Android's Jelly Bean users. 80% of 25% is 20% which is still more than 16%. And it seems likely that the users who spend the least on Apps for their Andriod phones are probably also the ones with the oldest versions of Android on their phones, so that comparison may be overly generous towards Apple.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    6. Re:It may not be hurting adoption... by twistofsin · · Score: 1

      That was my first impression as well.

      Fragmentation may not hurt the adoption of the OS, but it severely hinders the development of apps.

    7. Re:It may not be hurting adoption... by Daetrin · · Score: 1

      That's a fair argument (though as tbannist pointed out if it's only a 20% difference that still might not swing the balance) but it's a different argument than the original one about fragmentation which i felt was inaccurate.

      --
      This Space Intentionally Left Blank
    8. Re:It may not be hurting adoption... by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      I have no doubts that some app developers are doing better on Android than on iOS, but overall the numbers still favor Apple.

      Apple announced earlier this month during their WWDC keynote presentation that they've paid out over $10 billion to iOS developers (start at the 8:40 mark if it doesn't start there on its own), half of which was in the last year alone. At the same time, they provided a pie chart that showed the overall developer revenue by platform, with Android having 20% and iOS having 74%, and if you work those numbers out, it means that Google has paid out roughly $2.7 billion to Android developers. So, I don't think we're in danger of Android overtaking the revenues of iOS just yet, since iOS' payout for the last year alone was twice what Android's lifetime payout has been.

      That said, if your app is ad-supported, you'll clearly be better served by getting it in front of more eyeballs, and that means Android, since it has more users at this point. But if your app makes its money from initial sales or in-app purchases, you'll be better served by getting it in front of the users who are more willing to open their wallets, and that means iOS, since its users outweigh their smaller market share by buying far more.

      I'm with you in wanting some more competition in the space, especially one who can avoid the fragmentation issue, since having a majority of users on an old version just means that the platform as a whole is being anchored down to the lowest common denominator, rather than being allowed to excel and push the market forward. Things were a lot more exciting a few versions of Android ago. At this point, the exciting stuff in the Android space is the hardware, not the OS, and I think that's a shame, since the software is the place where most of the growth can still happen in this market.

    9. Re:It may not be hurting adoption... by swillden · · Score: 1

      I have no doubts that some app developers are doing better on Android than on iOS, but overall the numbers still favor Apple.

      And a year from now? Or two?

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    10. Re:It may not be hurting adoption... by swillden · · Score: 1

      From our perspective, Android gets a new, usable feature once every three to four years

      Nonsense. Most of the new Android features are backported, and even if what you said was true, it's a pile of new, usable features every couple of years... just features that were first released 3-4 years earlier.

      Guess what that means for users.

      It means that apps get a little larger because they have to incorporate the libraries necessary for the backported features, and it means that some of the new features don't arrive until they buy a new phone -- but since Android has been out-innovating iOS for a while now, their available feature set isn't far behind. Not to mention the fact that even the latest generation of iOS restricts app developers from doing many things they can do on Android, so even old Android phones have apps with capabilities that iOS devices don't.

      All in all, it's a pretty mixed bag, and one that isn't really that bad for Android owners, on balance. I, personally, find my Android phones far more usable than I did my iPhone.

      Regardless, the point is that users continue buying Android, and barring some significant change the trend lines mean that before too long developers will almost universally find it the more profitable platform, which means that iOS users will fall behind in that area as well.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    11. Re:It may not be hurting adoption... by Anubis+IV · · Score: 2

      What reason is there to believe that the numbers will change significantly in that time? All of the math seems to indicate that that's extremely unlikely.

      Based on the numbers I provided in my last post, to simply match iOS' developer revenue through your method (achieving marketplace dominance), Android will need to quadruple their number of users without allowing Apple to pick up any of that growth. To put that in perspective, quadrupling their number of users while Apple remains static would mean increasing their U.S. market share from where it's at now at 50% to about 80%. For reference, the study I linked indicates Android has grown 1.4% year-over-year, so a gain of thirty percentage points seems unlikely in the next two years. The study also indicates that iOS grew 1.8% year-over-year, meaning, assuming all other factors remained stable, that iOS actually increased its share of the developer revenue pie in the last year.

      Of course, the growth could come from emerging markets, rather than in an established one, but the problem with that is that those emerging markets tend to be even more cost-conscious than the ones that Android is already in, meaning that the per capita value of their users will decrease even further as they acquire more of them, meaning that quadrupling their sales wouldn't even be enough. So, let's set aside the idea that Android can overtake Apple's developer revenues by simply outselling them, since that idea seems extremely unlikely.

      They can also win a larger share of the developer revenue pie by reducing Apple's market share. Unfortunately, they'd need to eliminate 3/4 of Apple's customers to do that, and polls have consistently indicated that iOS users are the most satisfied and most loyal in the industry, so that's a tall order. In fact, while I'd definitely take it with a massive grain of salt, a major analyst has concluded that iOS will overtake Android within the timeframe you've specified, based on a year-long poll they conducted that looked at planned purchases and loyalty to the platform.

      And finally, as I already alluded to, a third option would be to increase the collective spending of their users and advertisers by a factor of four. The problem is that most consumers are cheap, and Android's market share growth has largely been fueled by catering to those folks through offers of free devices with the promise of free apps. By attracting users who are less willing to spend both on apps and products being advertised, they're reducing the per capita value of each of their users, but if they try to initiate a cultural change to attract high-end customers, they'll do so at the cost of market share as they eliminate the things that attracted their current customers in the first place. And, as I said earlier, it's extremely difficult to maintain even their current level of value per user while also expanding to include new users, since the users that are left tend to be the less valuable ones.

      Honest question: is there something obvious I'm missing? I just don't see how Android can create a 4x improvement in revenues while Apple holds still, whether through market dominance, as you suggested, or some other means, nor do I believe it to be likely that they can reduced Apple's revenues by 3/4.

    12. Re:It may not be hurting adoption... by Bogtha · · Score: 1

      That was the point of the Apple graphic, sure, but who cares? Developers, sure, but the evidence is that that doesn't matter, because developers will follow the users.

      I'm one of those developers. Developers will follow the users that are willing to buy and use our applications. There are more Android users, sure, but the users that are willing to buy and use our applications are overwhelmingly iOS users. Add in the problem of having to support ancient versions of Android, and you'll find that the cost-benefit ratio is far better for iOS than Android.

      We really don't see that changing. Google aren't fixing the fragmentation problem, and the source of Android's growth - the people who don't care if they have a smartphone or not but are being upgraded to cheap Android phones - aren't a source of profit for us. In fact they are actually making the version problem worse because they are less likely to upgrade.

      Already some app developers (particular game makers) are seeing Android revenues surpass iOS revenues

      By "some", you mean one company with two apps, and their first app didn't even compare like-for-like.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    13. Re:It may not be hurting adoption... by snadrus · · Score: 1

      My first number is 3 times bigger than my second one. Multiplying the first one by 1.014 and the second one by 1.023 will increase the gap. That's Android growing faster than IOS.

      Cost-savvy emerging markets want cheap devices. They'll also want it to replace a PC. More connections (dusb host adapter, flash slots, display) & fewer app restrictions make that an Android win.

      --
      Science & open-source build trust from peer review. Learn systems you can trust.
    14. Re:It may not be hurting adoption... by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      I don't doubt that you pulled those numbers from somewhere, but I'd love to see your source, since right now I have no idea where they're from or how they should be interpreted. The numbers I provided earlier (and cited) were specific to the U.S., so I wouldn't be surprised if yours are indicative of a global trend, rather than a U.S.-specific one, but without some context or source information, I can't make any sort of comparison using the numbers you pulled out.

      And I already covered emerging markets in great detail and mostly agree with what you said about them, though I think you're missing the bigger picture. Android definitely has the edge in them, as I readily acknowledged, but I also pointed out that the customers in them tend to go for cheap phones, buy very few apps, and buy very few of the advertised products, making them customers who hold very little value to app developers and advertisers. As a result, they push down the per capita value of each customer in the Android market, and since Android's developer revenues as of last month were roughly 1/4 those of iOS' (see my previous comments for specifics and citations), that means that by pushing down the per capita value of each customer further, they'll need to increase their market share by more than 4x in order to compensate. Merely closing the gap with growths like what you've cited would be insufficient to do so in any sort of a timely manner.

  3. Adoption is all very well, but... by danaris · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...who's going to buy your app?

    If you've got to target 6 or so major differences in versions—not to mention the differences in hardware—to reach the same percentage of Android users as you could reach in iOS users by targeting only iOS 6, that's got to say something about the ROI you can expect.

    And that's not even taking into account the many datapoints showing that Android users buy something like half, or less, the amount of apps per device that iOS users do. (I don't have the numbers in front of me right now, but my memory suggests it was considerably less—like, closer to 10% than 50%.)

    The reason Android's adoption is high is pretty damn obvious to anyone who's actually paying attention: the phones occupying the space in carrier lineups that, seven years ago, would have been held by dumbphones are now cheap Android phones. People buy Android not because they're choosing it, but because that's what happens to come on their phone...which they use almost exclusively to talk and text. (And maybe check Twitter and Facebook.)

    Dan Aris

    --
    Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
    1. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 2

      Except that cheap Android device are still a million years better than the old JavaME feature phones were. If people who buy cheap phones aren't buying your apps, maybe the issue is nobody is selling them a useful enough app? There's certainly an untapped market there. People should see that as an opportunity, not some sign of "weakness".

      Heck, I'm an advanced user with plenty of money and the fact is, all the apps I want or could need on Android are free anyway. I bought TuneIn Pro because I listen to net radio a lot and it was worth it. Otherwise the apps I use most frequently are gratis.

    2. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "to reach the same percentage of Android users as you could reach in iOS users by targeting only iOS 6, that's got to say something about the ROI you can expect."

      If iOS6 runs on fewer devices you would have to sell more to iOS users to reach 1/2 of the users running Android.
      If Android is 75% and iOS is only 17% and 1/2 of Android users got a app and 1/2 iOS. iOS would not come close. The app on iOS would have to sell a lot more to reach 1/2 of Android. Maybe this is why the apps on Android are free with ads. They make more money with a few ads then if they would sell the app. And for iOS they have to sell it case the ads in the app would not even come close to the amount it is sold for.

    3. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by hedwards · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's a false dilemma you've got there. Android includes tools to manage the fragmentation. If you're having to individually target particular handsets, you're doing it wrong.

      People buy Android, because they don't want to be overcharged for Apple's iOS walled garden, and don't want to be limited to only Apple's selections. I'm sure that some people buy Android because it's less expensive, but that's a perfectly legitimate reason for choosing it. Just because you're an Apple fanbois doesn't make it any less legitimate to remain cost conscious.

    4. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by danaris · · Score: 1

      Except that cheap Android device are still a million years better than the old JavaME feature phones were. If people who buy cheap phones aren't buying your apps, maybe the issue is nobody is selling them a useful enough app? There's certainly an untapped market there. People should see that as an opportunity, not some sign of "weakness".

      That may be the case, but then the problem is awareness. If these users aren't buying apps, I guarantee you it isn't because they're browsing through the Google Play store and just saying, "Meh, don't want to pay for any of these." (Partly because, IIRC, the stats show that they aren't even installing free apps.) It's because they're not even thinking of their phones as smartphones. They don't browse the web, they don't look at the Google Play store, many of them don't even realize that it exists.

      If you want them to pay for your app, first you need to build it for the version of Android they're running, then you need to get them interested in your app, and finally you need to make them realize that they can actually get it.

      So, yes, there is certainly a large potential untapped market for a really useful Android app. However, tapping it is far from trivial.

      Dan Aris

      --
      Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
    5. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by danaris · · Score: 1

      I've seen more articles that say this is a myth than say it's true.

      Do you have a reference link? I've not seen any articles saying this is a myth, and a lot giving what look like pretty solid statistics to show it to be true. I'll freely admit that I don't frequent Android-centric sites, though, so if you've got references, I'd be glad to see them.

      So people are buying a better phone (does exactly what they want) for less money. Why does that bother you so much?

      It doesn't. Where did you get that idea?

      Dan Aris

      --
      Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
    6. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by danaris · · Score: 1, Insightful

      That's a false dilemma you've got there. Android includes tools to manage the fragmentation. If you're having to individually target particular handsets, you're doing it wrong.

      People buy Android, because they don't want to be overcharged for Apple's iOS walled garden, and don't want to be limited to only Apple's selections. I'm sure that some people buy Android because it's less expensive, but that's a perfectly legitimate reason for choosing it. Just because you're an Apple fanbois doesn't make it any less legitimate to remain cost conscious.

      I think you've missed my point: they don't choose Android because it's cheaper. They just go to buy a cheap phone, and these days, that happens to be Android. They're not thinking about it in terms of iOS vs Android vs whatever. They're just going to buy a phone that'll do phone stuff.

      Dan Aris

      --
      Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
    7. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by rasmusbr · · Score: 1

      The numbers that I've seen show that iOS and Android users download approximately the same number of apps. The difference is that the average iOS user spends about ten times more money than the Android user. The Play store icon sits right there on the home screen, so I don't think that users are unaware that it exists.

      There isn't necessarily a lot of money to be made on Android. If we apply the 80-20 rule to personal disposable income it makes perfect sense that iOS could have close to 80% of the market share in dollars with not much more than 20% of the market share in terms of users, not because iOS users are more technically proficient as you imply, but because they have more money to spend.

    8. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by pherthyl · · Score: 1

      >> That's a false dilemma you've got there. Android includes tools to manage the fragmentation. If you're having to individually target particular handsets, you're doing it wrong.

      Hahahahhaha. Clearly you've never developed a serious app for android.

    9. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      they're not even thinking of their phones as smartphones. They don't browse the web,

      Perhaps you need to look at different web statistics. Android users do browse the web. But sure keep deluding yourself.

    10. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by danaris · · Score: 1

      they're not even thinking of their phones as smartphones. They don't browse the web,

      Perhaps you need to look at different web statistics. Android users do browse the web. But sure keep deluding yourself.

      Thanks for the ad hom. Tastes cheesy.

      You're right, I had forgotten about these stats on web browsing. Though do note that the numbers for the US look somewhat different from the global ones: here, the iOS percent is above 50 and still growing.

      If you can find stats showing Android users spending more per capita on apps, though, I'll be very surprised.

      Dan Aris

      --
      Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
    11. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      People buy Android, because they don't want to be overcharged for Apple's iOS walled garden, and don't want to be limited to only Apple's selections. I'm sure that some people buy Android because it's less expensive, but that's a perfectly legitimate reason for choosing it. Just because you're an Apple fanbois doesn't make it any less legitimate to remain cost conscious.

      Some people do, yes, but few of those people were Apple's target audience anyway. That's part of the reason that iOS users are so much more valuable to advertisers and developers. Apple recently announced earlier this month that they've paid out $10 billion to iOS developers, half of which was in the last year alone, which stands in sharp contrast to the roughly $2.7 billion that Google has paid out to Android developers (source for both numbers).

      The OP's argument was about ROI for developers. If you were a developer looking to build an app, would you want to do so for the more fragmented ecosystem with the cost conscious customers, or for the simpler-to-develop one that's paying out over four times as much despite having a fourth of the customers? If you were relying on advertising for your revenue, then clearly the latter, since it'll put your ads in front of more eyeballs. If you are relying on in-app purchases and up-front sales, then clearly the former, since its customers are much more willing to spend.

    12. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by hedwards · · Score: 1

      That's nonsense.

      Ultimately, they are more likely to buy Android because it is cheaper. Apple doesn't even sell phones in that range. I'm not sure what the current cost of the iPhones is, but last time I was in the market for a phone, they didn't have anything for under $500. I would assume that's changed, but who knows.

      The point is that you're making a vague tautology there. You can't separate the phone from the OS and say that it's because of one or the other. Ultimately, Android is less expensive, because it's used in less expensive phones than iOS is.

    13. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      And Apple have made it pretty clear that they've no interest whatsoever in that section of the market.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    14. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      People buy Android because they want something billed as "better than iPhone, with a smaller pricetag." They're certainly not built for freedom, as anyone gets them.

      Huh? That makes absolutely no sense.

      Apple users and developers get excited about Apple announcements...

      TFTFY.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    15. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      I don't really understand the problem of targetting software versions when you have the support library, as for hardware, targeting on making your application run decently on the lowest common denominator is generally sufficient. Faster phones are just going to be... Faster.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    16. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      What about people like me who bought the Xperia Z, why do we do it?

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    17. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      If you can find stats showing Android users spending more per capita on apps, though, I'll be very surprised.

      Have you read the post someone made here from gamasutra about user conversion on iOS vs Android games? Or about how they can't even sell a top game for $0.99 on iOS? I guess not.

    18. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 1

      Sure, but that sounds like pretty much any business. The idea that one man in a garage can get millions of users overnight thanks to free advertising in an app store is awesome, but it was never going to last and it was never how 99% of businesses are built.

    19. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      You are so 2012 - these days people (here in the UK) increasingly are deliberately asking for Android, because their friend was sold a Windows phone and there were no upgrades at all! (or apps). Everyone in the real workd knows the SGS4 is awesome, and those that cant afford it, get a Samsung Galaxy &*%$ instead, which is OK but not great.

      Also: plastic or aluminium backs are irrelevant - people put the phone in a fake leather case anyway.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    20. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by danaris · · Score: 1

      If you can find stats showing Android users spending more per capita on apps, though, I'll be very surprised.

      Have you read the post someone made here from gamasutra about user conversion on iOS vs Android games? Or about how they can't even sell a top game for $0.99 on iOS? I guess not.

      Actually, I tried to follow that link when I saw it elsewhere in this discussion, but it wouldn't load :-/ I presume it got slashdotted.

      However, as was pointed out to the person who posted it, that's an anecdote, not statistics, and thus does nothing to refute the various other people who are pointing out that while Android may have 3/4 of the marketshare, iOS has 3/4 of the app revenue.

      Dan Aris

      --
      Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
    21. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by danaris · · Score: 1

      You are so 2012 - these days people (here in the UK) increasingly are deliberately asking for Android, because their friend was sold a Windows phone and there were no upgrades at all! (or apps). Everyone in the real workd knows the SGS4 is awesome, and those that cant afford it, get a Samsung Galaxy &*%$ instead, which is OK but not great.

      Also: plastic or aluminium backs are irrelevant - people put the phone in a fake leather case anyway.

      Well, I can't speak for the UK, so I can't tell whether you're right or not about that.

      However, here in the real US world, most people wouldn't know a Samsung or an Android or a Windows phone if it walked up and introduced itself to them. That's a very geekly attitude. They recognize the iPhone, and they may or may not decide they want it. If they don't, by and large, they just go into the Verizon or AT&T store and let the salesdrones sell them whatever.

      Dan Aris

      --
      Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
    22. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by danaris · · Score: 1

      People buy Android because they want something billed as "better than iPhone, with a smaller pricetag." They're certainly not built for freedom, as anyone gets them.

      Huh? That makes absolutely no sense.

      I think he's trying to say that in the configurations in which the vast majority of people purchase and use Android phones, they are not particularly Open or Free. Nor would they particularly care, as Open and Free are very geekly ideals.

      Dan Aris

      --
      Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
    23. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by smash · · Score: 1

      No, most of the people who buy android do so because they can get a cheap crappy handset. the share of high end android devices is pretty small.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    24. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Did you read the article that linked too which pretty much showed their point was a joke, and the evidence was by a dinky developer with a grand total of 2 apps, both of which suck ass, the first of which was just flat out pathetic.

      So yes, if you write shitty apps and intend to make your living by getting the low hanging fruit who by your app by mistake, then that article suggests Android would be a better choice.

      As a developer, that article just pushes me further away.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    25. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      And you've once again entirely missed the point.

      They aren't buying an Android phone instead of an iPhone ... they are buying a phone. What it runs they dont' give a shit about. The people buying it don't care and some don't even know. They are no different than people buying an old standard phone.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    26. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Apple users and developers get excited about Apple announcements...

      And android users don't. Do you get the point NOW?

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    27. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Compare and contrast with:

      http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8&qpcustomd=1

      One of these companies has got it very wrong.

    28. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      There's always somebody that buys every phone. Even Microsoft Kin in it's 43 days on the market didn't have zero sales. Somebody bought it.

    29. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      A "dinky developer" with millions of players and which wasted $100k on iOS marketing on launch for one game. Yeah I wish I was such a dinky developer.

      Seriously. Do you think everyone is EA and Activision or what?

    30. Re:Adoption is all very well, but... by danaris · · Score: 1

      The reason Android's adoption is high is pretty damn obvious to anyone who's actually paying attention: the phones occupying the space in carrier lineups that, seven years ago, would have been held by dumbphones are now cheap Android phones. People buy Android not because they're choosing it, but because that's what happens to come on their phone...which they use almost exclusively to talk and text. (And maybe check Twitter and Facebook.)

      Dan Aris

      You are right. That is preciously why no one is paying a premium to buy expensive Android phones like the Samsung S4 or HTC One.

      Well, not "no one," but they're hardly the phones that are driving the bulk of Android's marketshare.

      Dan Aris

      --
      Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
  4. Fragmentation has nothing to do with selling phone by hsmith · · Score: 4, Informative

    It has everything to do with being able to develop for phones. The article misses the point entirely.

    As someone who develops for both, testing in Android *is* a pain in the ass. Developing in it is a breeze. The minor issues you run into on varying handsets is just a nightmare to deal with. The small variances because manufactures can't develop to API specifications correctly.

    I question anyone who says it isn't an issue. Either you aren't doing development or you haven't built something complex enough to see the various issues.

  5. I'm still running the Original iPhone on 3.1.3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I am the 1%!

    In before everybody flips their shit. It is my main phone and I see no reason to upgrade.

    1. Re:I'm still running the Original iPhone on 3.1.3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Apparently you've never accidentally pressed the wrong button on iTunes, had something happen where you had to have the Apple Store help you out, had to perform a factory/carrier official unlock, had to restore your phone because some stupid thing that should never break was broken and you got exhausted over trying to figure your way around it for 3 hours...

      The point is that Apple has it's users by the short hairs. This graph certainly shows that.

    2. Re:I'm still running the Original iPhone on 3.1.3 by pbjones · · Score: 1

      There are two of us.

      --
      There was an unknown error in the submission.
    3. Re:I'm still running the Original iPhone on 3.1.3 by pbjones · · Score: 1

      Android in the same boat, google and the phone maker has you by the short and curlies. If the phone maker decides to not offer an update for your new Android phone then you can not go any where else. A cheap phone is cheap for a reason.

      --
      There was an unknown error in the submission.
  6. not just OS version... think screen sizes by 1800maxim · · Score: 1

    If you're coding for the iPhone, you deal with iPhone 5 screen resolution and iPhone 4/4S. That's 2 screen resolutions.

    Try coding for Android, while having fun doing it ;)

    1. Re:not just OS version... think screen sizes by maccodemonkey · · Score: 2

      If you're coding for the iPhone, you deal with iPhone 5 screen resolution and iPhone 4/4S. That's 2 screen resolutions.

      Try coding for Android, while having fun doing it ;)

      I actually have a feeling the screen resolution thing isn't going to hold. Apple is going to go with multiple screens eventually.

      I program part time for Android, and the screen resolution thing isn't actually what bothers me on Android. A lot of other things do bother me and make iOS still my favorite platform. But both platforms have very effective tools for dealing with screen size differences (Android more in practice, and iOS more in theory at this point.)

    2. Re:not just OS version... think screen sizes by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 1

      That, and more significantly the iPad / iPhone difference has caused me far more headaches than Android's zoo of screen sizes.

      Android was designed from the ground up for arbitrary screen dimensions. iOS wasn't. iOS couldn't even deal with it effectively until iOS 6.0.

    3. Re:not just OS version... think screen sizes by stephanruby · · Score: 3, Informative

      If you're coding for the iPhone, you deal with iPhone 5 screen resolution and iPhone 4/4S. That's 2 screen resolutions. Try coding for Android, while having fun doing it ;)

      To an iOS developer who hard-codes screen resolutions and aspect ratios like a Guttenberg-press typesetter would at the end of the 15th century, dealing with screens of different resolutions, different aspect ratios, and different sizes like Android does would seem like an insurmountable task to him/her, but that's one of the easiest problems to deal with once you start understanding the Android fundamentals and once you start writing your application the Android way (although, some veteran iPhone developers don't even try to do that when developing for Android, so they end up writing an android application like they would have an iPhone application).

      If you're going to complain about the Android fragmentation, then complain about bluetooth compatibility between all the different Android devices. That is a pain, a real pain (assuming your client insists on compatibility between all Android phones/tablets, and not just the bluetooth compatibility of certain models with the same chips -- the latter of which is easy enough to do).

    4. Re:not just OS version... think screen sizes by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      If you're coding for the iPhone, you deal with iPhone 5 screen resolution and iPhone 4/4S. That's 2 screen resolutions.

      Try coding for Android, while having fun doing it ;)

      And one more thing.

      Don't think that we haven't noticed your omission of the iPad and the Mini-iPad in your comparison of the "iPhone" vs. "Android" resolution count.

      This omission makes me think that you seem to be aware of the insanity it was for Apple to have hard-coded resolutions and aspect ratios into its platform (when it clearly isn't the first time that Apple went back to the drawing board and introduced new form factors that had been verbotten previously).

    5. Re:not just OS version... think screen sizes by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      If you're coding for the iPhone, you deal with iPhone 5 screen resolution and iPhone 4/4S. That's 2 screen resolutions. Try coding for Android, while having fun doing it ;)

      To an iOS developer who hard-codes screen resolutions and aspect ratios like a Guttenberg-press typesetter would at the end of the 15th century, dealing with screens of different resolutions, different aspect ratios, and different sizes like Android does would seem like an insurmountable task...

      Bing-O. I would give you my last mod point if I'd not already posted in this discussion.

      Any GUI developer these days who cannot handle fluid layout needs to get back to McDonald's straight away.

      (P.S. It's "Gutenberg".)

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    6. Re:not just OS version... think screen sizes by tibman · · Score: 1

      Yeah, seriously! It's worse than trying to make a website with this html stuff that fits every sized monitor on the planet. (that's the joke)

      --
      http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
    7. Re:not just OS version... think screen sizes by tibman · · Score: 1

      Agreed. It's as if web development has slipped by them?

      --
      http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
    8. Re:not just OS version... think screen sizes by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      That, and more significantly the iPad / iPhone difference has caused me far more headaches than Android's zoo of screen sizes.

      Android was designed from the ground up for arbitrary screen dimensions

      If you're autosizing the same app for a phone and a tablet, your app has a shit UI. If you've put code in there to do different things on the two device types, then that's the same as what you do on iOS.

      iOS couldn't even deal with it effectively until iOS 6.0.

      Balls. Auto Layout is a convenience, it doesn't mean you can do anything that you could already do.

    9. Re:not just OS version... think screen sizes by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      To an iOS developer who hard-codes screen resolutions and aspect ratios like a Guttenberg-press typesetter would at the end of the 15th century, dealing with screens of different resolutions, different aspect ratios, and different sizes like Android does would seem like an insurmountable task to him/her, but that's one of the easiest problems to deal with once you start understanding the Android fundamentals and once you start writing your application the Android way

      Mobile apps designed for specific resolutions are always superior to ones that auto-resize themselves.

    10. Re:not just OS version... think screen sizes by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Any mobile GUI developer who doesn't realise that a UI designed for specific screen size will be better than a fluid design isn't a good mobile developer.

      At the worst are those idiots that thing the same design, resized, will do for both phones and tablets.

      Fluid design is a partial fix for the problem of unknown sizes. When sizes are non unknown, the problem doesn't exist in the first place.

    11. Re:not just OS version... think screen sizes by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      HTML might work on a vast range of device/window widths, but does it work well on all of them? Typically no.

  7. Re:It's caused by the tons of crappy handsets by SQLGuru · · Score: 1

    Or forked versions of Android such as the original Kindle Fire?

  8. Market Share vs Fragmentation by ernest.cunningham · · Score: 2

    Apple's point is that their installed base (no matter what size or market share it is) has very little fragmentation allowing those who develop for the platform to target only the newest iOS. For developers this is a big deal.

    Getting market share because you re selling junk like this the Samsung Pocket that still comes with Android 2.3 is not helping out anybody. The security implications of running this older OS is also an issue.

    I am not advocating one side or the other. I am saying the OP countered the point Apple were making with a somewhat irrelevant argument.

    1. Re:Market Share vs Fragmentation by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      Getting market share because you re selling junk like this the Samsung Pocket that still comes with Android 2.3 is not helping out anybody. The security implications of running this older OS is also an issue.

      Android 2.3.x is for single-processor phones (like the Samsung Pocket).

      And no, what you're implying is completely false. Android 2.3 gets all relevant security updates (it just doesn't change its major version number on a whim like iOS does). In fact, if you just look at the security community, most of the secure forks of Android are still based on Android 1.6 or Android 2.x, because those older versions have been vetted and analyzed the most.

    2. Re:Market Share vs Fragmentation by tepples · · Score: 1

      Android 2.3 gets all relevant security updates

      Like Windows XP, Android 2 never got the update to Transport Layer Security to allow connecting to web servers that host more than one SSL site on one IP address.

    3. Re:Market Share vs Fragmentation by Karlt1 · · Score: 2

      And no, what you're implying is completely false. Android 2.3 gets all relevant security updates (it just doesn't change its major version number on a whim like iOS does).

      What good is it if Google releases security updates and the manufacturer and the carrier never push the updates to the phone?

  9. API level by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 5, Informative

    Most of it's that the "fragmentation" in Android really isn't visible at the developer level. Sure you've got a lot of versions. But in general the API changes between versions don't break backwards compatibility: if you wrote code for API level 8 (Android 2.2), it's almost certainly going to run just fine on a device running API level 17 (Android 4.2.2). It mostly comes down to picking the minimum API level that supports all the features you need and writing to that. There's only a relatively few places where you need to explicitly handle differences, eg. coding for "If the device supports NFC then hook up the handlers for it, otherwise don't bother.". Most of those are just like that, simple feature tests: does this device have GPS, does it have a camera, and so on. Only a small minority are truly complicated to handle and need special coding based on the Android version.

    It's a lot like cars. There's how many car manufacturers, and how many hundred different models? Yet when you sit down in one you don't worry about that huge degree of fragmentation. The controls will mostly be where they ought to be and the ones that aren't aren't safety-critical and aren't that hard to figure out, and while the shape of the fenders and design of the taillights may change the looks dramatically that doesn't really impact your ability to drive it.

    1. Re:API level by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 2

      What you're missing is that quite a few APIs get backported to older OS releases. It's less efficient to have apps contain copies of the libraries like that, but it does work. The trend is in this direction e.g. with play services. Obviously you can't backport everything like that, but a lot of the important stuff is (like new map widgets, etc). The difference between ICS and jellybean, API wise, isn't that huge. The big leap was Gingerbread to ICS. So, you really only have to pick between those two. You can just pretend Gingerbread doesn't exist if you like, the market share will still be larger than iPhone.

    2. Re:API level by mcl630 · · Score: 1

      The vast majority of apps have no need to target the very latest API level... API levels 8 or 9 (Android 2.2 or 2.3) will have all the functionality they need.

    3. Re:API level by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 1

      Most of that, though, is feature tests. You don't care about the API level, you test "What's this device's screen resolution?", "Does this device have NFC?" and so on. If the test is positive, you start using that feature. If the test was negative, you avoid using it. In terms of code, you set a minimum API level to the lowest common denomiator that you require, then target the minimum API level that supports the features you want to use and code to check feature support before trying to use features. There's a trick to testing when you don't know if the API level you're running on supports what you want to test, but if you're a serious Android developer you don't need me to hand-hold you through it. If you're a serious Java developer you probably already know it too, it's how you write code to take advantage of Java 7 API additions if you're in a J7 VM while still being able to run in a J6 VM.

  10. Re:Fragmentation has nothing to do with selling ph by mlts · · Score: 1

    I wish there were some type of test suite that phone makers could offer to emulate their products, just to see if things run, and report exceptions thrown. That way, if I write an app, I don't get a bunch of one star, "FCs on my blahblah" reviews, on some device that I've never heard about (such as BLU phones which are extremely popular south of the US.)

    That way, if one device did keep crashing my app, I can at least stick a warning about it.

    Android fragmentation isn't as bad as people point it out to be. If worried about it, just set the bar to 4.0 or 4.1 and call it done.

  11. Version Is Not the Only Form of Fragmentation by organgtool · · Score: 1

    Another form of fragmentation is different hardware, including screen sizes and resolutions. While the variety of iOS devices and hardware is not as big as Android, I'm sure that the differences still cause headaches for their developers. And there's no doubt that Android suffers more from version fragmentation, largely because Android phone manufacturers don't have the balls to stop accepting money from the telcos and other parties for incorporating their shovelware.

    With that said, I'm surprised that so many people have upgraded to iOS 6. When I had an iPhone, I got to the point where I stopped upgrading it because the new versions were too demanding for my phone despite the fact that my phone qualified for the update. Maybe Apple has gotten better in that respect.

  12. Re:Which Adoption? by hedwards · · Score: 1

    There's less API versioning to deal with because Apple controls the platform and removes support for older devices periodically. Android will let you sell to customers no matter how long they've owned the device, as long as it supports the API calls necessary to run your app.

    It's a shame that they cheaped out on the refund period, going from 24 hours when I got mine a few years back, to only 15 minutes at the present. 15 minutes is insufficient time to evaluate any application with any thoroughness. Some apps take longer than that to just run through the first time.

  13. App revenue by Guspaz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Android has 75% of the device shipments, but Apple has 74% of app revenue. Fragmentation may not affect device shipments, but it certainly seems to be affecting other things.

    Look at it another way. Android has 75% device shipment marketshare. Apple has 18%. This means Google ships 4.17x as many devices. But (not knowing the Android app store marketshare), Apple has a minimum of 2.85x the overall app store revenue.

    This means that Apple devices, on average, produce roughly 12x the app revenue. Is this because of platform fragmentation? Is this because of Apple's demograhics? I don't know, but dismissing fragmentation based purely on device shipment market share is shortsighted.

    1. Re:App revenue by eddy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Evidence suggests otherwise. Android vs iOS Game Myths

      --
      Belief is the currency of delusion.
    2. Re:App revenue by harperska · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Anecdote is not the singular of data. When aggregate studies show that more money is to be made developing for iOS, two games by one studio that buck that trend do not negate the aggregate. It just provides an interesting data point that happens to be an outlier. Independent studies that unbiasedly sample a large number of apps that are on both platforms which show that the conventional wisdom is wrong would be newsworthy. As would analysis of apps like this to see why they buck the trend, and whether that difference can be capitalized in other apps. But to use a single data point simply as a counterpoint to a trend is laughable.

    3. Re:App revenue by tepples · · Score: 1

      As would analysis of apps like this to see why they buck the trend

      I think the object of publishing an anecdote like this is to encourage someone else to make such an analysis as a response.

    4. Re:App revenue by ctid · · Score: 2

      There are several more data points in this article. Android game revenues do not appear to be ahead of iOS game revenues, but there have been several articles at Gamasutra that suggest that the gap is nowhere near as much as expected.

      --
      Reality is defined by the maddest person in the room
    5. Re:App revenue by eddy · · Score: 1

      >Anecdote is not the singular of data. When aggregate studies show that more money is to be made developing for iOS

      Yet neither you nor the OP provided any supporting evidence for your assertions.

      Assertions are not the singular of data either.

      --
      Belief is the currency of delusion.
    6. Re:App revenue by thoth · · Score: 1
    7. Re:App revenue by ctid · · Score: 1

      What a peculiar way to look at things! Why would gamasutra care one way or the other?

      --
      Reality is defined by the maddest person in the room
  14. Apple frags by spire3661 · · Score: 2

    Apple still has feature fragmentation. Airdrop is going to be Iphone 5 or above only. I find it hard to believe an iphone 4 cant exchange files in the field.

    --
    Good-bye
    1. Re:Apple frags by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I find it funny that Apple is adding all the things it said the users didn't need.

    2. Re:Apple frags by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      If a PSP from 2004 can share AN ENTIRE GAME over wifi through game sharing, im quite sure every iphone ever made has the hardware to trivially share files.

      --
      Good-bye
    3. Re:Apple frags by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why? With Apple, it has always been that way.

    4. Re:Apple frags by Bogtha · · Score: 1

      Apple still has feature fragmentation. Airdrop is going to be Iphone 5 or above only.

      That's not relevant to developers though. Airdrop is implemented behind an activity view. Any iOS application using activity views gets Airdrop support included automatically when it is available, and they get their current behaviour when it's unavailable. They don't have to do anything to support both cases, it all just works automatically.

      Compare this to an experience we had with building an application for Android recently. The client came back and asked us when we were adding certain form fields. We were puzzled - the developer had told us they were already in there. We looked at it - they were in there, but their selected/deselected state was practically indistinguishable. We talked to the developer - it looked fine to him. These were standard form controls, and they looked different on every device we had, to the point where they were invisible or defective on some. We ended up having to use custom graphics instead.

      You really can't compare iOS "fragmentation" with Android fragmentation. They really are two entirely different things.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
  15. Re:Fragmentation has nothing to do with selling ph by Rich0 · · Score: 1

    If they could do a job at making platform-specific test suites chances are that they could probably just make their platforms follow the specs properly and you wouldn't need that test suite in the first place...

  16. Re:Fragmentation has nothing to do with selling ph by hedwards · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And this is somehow different from the PC market?

    I can't recall the last time I heard anybody complaining about the PC market being fragmented. It's standard for Apple to use fragmentation as an argument against their opposition, because they want to make all the decisions for the end users. It's easy to eliminate fragmentation when you limit the option to things that you've chosen.

  17. There are two axis for fragmentation. by tlambert · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There are two axis for fragmentation.

    The graph is showing the one that doesn't matter, since you can always target a subset of the APi which is supported by all the versions of the OS; that's the same for both iOS and Android, and it's just common sense code portability. The first product I worked on out of college was TERM software for a small company called Century Software in Salt Lake City, Utah, At one point, we had greater market penetration for async communications software on UNIX systems than UUCP, and UNIX systems came with UUCP for free. We also ran on VMS, BTOS, CP/M, MP/M, Mac OS, and half a dozen other non-UNIX platforms, as well as the 140+ UNIX platforms we ran on.

    The secret to this success was to have as small a porting surface as possible, and that's eminently possible with both iOS and Android, although that type of design and coding tends to not be taught in colleges and universities these days, it's still eminently possible. It's just a matter of API contracts.

    The other axis is hardware differences, and you can't ignore those for either iOS or Android. Those are the ones you can't get around with API contracts, because they touch on different device capabilities - the most important of which is screen aspect ratio, and that's the very thing that iPhone 5 broke, and it's the very thing the original iPad broke. Sure, there are other important parts to this; there the "I" in "I/O" as well, in particular, of all the sensors, there's keyboard inputs, but for the most part, that has fallen out to touch interfaces, which pretty much everyone other than Blackberry has agreed upon, and GPS. All the other sensors are much less useful to most apps.

    If you talk to a Rovio engineer (and I have) on this issue, they effectively target a dozen iOS hardware platforms: to get the best user experience, and to get where they are today, with "Angry Birds" being the top selling mobile game of all time, they've had to adjust to aspect ration, resolution, and OS version. Being a game has meant having a much larger porting surface, in terms of OS interaction. And yeah, this means several dozen Android platforms, as well as their other platforms, but the difference between a dozen and several dozen isn't as large as the difference between 1 and a dozen.

    Rather than pointing to Apple infographics, you'd be much better off pointing at the biggest success story in the industry, and doing as they do, rather than doing as Apple would have you do, since it's more important to be a top seller than it is to be portable, if the end goal is popularity with users and income.

    1. Re:There are two axis for fragmentation. by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      What's the big deal? Doesn't Rovio just keep the Angry Birds resolution the same on every device and make the ads bigger to fill the remaining space?

      ..no? and more than resolution, there's also the size of the screen that resolution is actually ON to contend.

      iOS apps have to be already developed now with varying screen sizes and pixel densities in mind. same goes for android. for both these are the biggest problems with targeting the widest possible device scope, not api breaking between os releases.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  18. And startup costs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    To start as an iOS developer I'd need about $1700 - $1100 for an Apple computer, $500 for an iOS device and $100 for an Apple Developer subscription so I can publish.

    Android (starting from scratch because my machines are too slow to run the emulator:Core Duo 2140) $500 for machine, $200 for Android Device and I'm DONE for $700.

    I can live with fragmentation.

    1. Re:And startup costs by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      To start as an iOS developer I'd need about $1700 - $1100 for an Apple computer, $500 for an iOS device and $100 for an Apple Developer subscription so I can publish.

      Or you could buy a $229 iPod Touch.....

    2. Re:And startup costs by smash · · Score: 1

      Or you could... you know... pick up a secondhand 2010 mac mini for about $200 and an iPod touch.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    3. Re:And startup costs by smash · · Score: 1

      And... i've run the iOS simulator on a 2007 spec mac mini and it ran fine. iOS does not need a high level mac to develop for.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    4. Re:And startup costs by smash · · Score: 1

      Also much cheaper secondhand. a 2010 mini will run the latest mac OS and latest iOS development tools.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    5. Re:And startup costs by smash · · Score: 1

      Plus: it can also be used for android development.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    6. Re:And startup costs by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      A mac mini costs $599, a iPod touch costs $200, and a $100 developer certificate.

      But don't let comparing the same items to each other get in your way.

      If you like Android, who cares what iOS costs? If you want to be a fanboy, just be a fanboy. Stop trying to justify yourself.

      If you want to make money selling apps on mobile devices, then you target iOS. If you want to be a fanboy, just stick with Android.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    7. Re:And startup costs by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Alternatively you could do car washing for an even smaller initial expenditure. Startup costs: A bucket: $2, a pack of cloths: $1, detergent $1. You're done for $4.

  19. Annoyed fanboy? by gnasher719 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    This really, really sounds like an Android fan who just can't stand it if Apple has something good to say about iOS.

    Fact #1: Apple doesn't care about the market share of Android. Apple's market share in the phone market has been growing every year since 2007 when it started at zero. Today, cheap feature phones are being replaced with cheap smartphones. But if you don't buy a $600 iPhone but choose a $100 phone instead, Apple doesn't care whether that $100 phone is a Nokia feature phone or a cheap Android phone.

    Fact #2: Developers don't care about market share, they care about the number of people who are willing to pay for software. Someone who pays $600 for a phone (iOS or Android) is much more likely to pay for software than someone who paid $100 (Android or feature phone).

    The market fragmentation in itself is not the problem. The problem is that those on a three year old OS are not likely to buy any software. (You are free to assume otherwise and either write software that runs on the oldest OS and doesn't use any features of the newer OS, or put in lots of work to work fine everywhere). Which means the number of potential buyers is much lower than the number of Android users. It also seems to indicate that many new phones actually ship with an old OS.

    1. Re:Annoyed fanboy? by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      You must be somewhat mathematically challenged, because even if you and Apple are right, targeting a subset of 75% of the market is still better than targeting nearly all of 17% of the market.

      I have to admit that I'm experiencing some glee in seeing Apple's marketshare numbers fall just as I'd predicted years ago. I don't care that Apple exists; they're just way too much of a bully to be trusted with a dominant marketshare. It's also very amusing to see the moving goalpost reasons provided by Apple fanbois about why iOS is so much better than Android.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    2. Re:Annoyed fanboy? by pherthyl · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >> You must be somewhat mathematically challenged, because even if you and Apple are right, targeting a subset of 75% of the market is still better than targeting nearly all of 17% of the market.

      And yet, 75% of app revenue is from iOS. So as a developer the 75% marketshare means nothing if those people aren't buying apps.

    3. Re:Annoyed fanboy? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      But if you don't buy a $600 iPhone but choose a $100 phone instead, Apple doesn't care whether that $100 phone is a Nokia feature phone or a cheap Android phone.

      When the market was an expensive smartphone or no smartphone - particularly none with traction and apps, many chose Apple. My iPhone (4, so three years old) is the first phone I own that had apps and it's not going to be my last, but I'm going to take a long hard look if I need to pay for a new iPhone or a cheaper Android phone will do the trick, Android is an alternative where a Nokia feature phone wouldn't be. I don't regret buying it just like I don't regret buying all the expensive computer gear I've bought over the years, new technology is expensive but it doesn't mean I need to stay on the bleeding edge. Particularly since my next one would be coming out of my own pocket.

      Developers don't care about market share, they care about the number of people who are willing to pay for software.

      True, as well they should but a lot of companies have also lost sight of where they're going to make money in the future because they're too busy staring at the money they make right now. All those people who are starting out with Android today who might get more advanced and/or more affluent in the future, are they just going to dump their Android phones and the apps they know and go Apple? Some will but many won't, a Nokia feature phone would be a dead end but even a cheap Android phone isn't. With the number of potential future customers on Android now I'd never dare to not develop for Android as well, even though iPhone might be the cash cow right now. YMMV.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re:Annoyed fanboy? by thoth · · Score: 1

      targeting a subset of 75% of the market is still better than targeting nearly all of 17% of the market.

      It all depends on how those subsets spend their money, and the evidence from app stores is iOS users spend more. Enough to make their smaller marketshare worthwhile targeting.

    5. Re:Annoyed fanboy? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      It's not that someone who spent $100 on a phone won't buy software. It's that they probably will never buy any apps over five or six bucks, and prefer not to spend more than about two. They're cheap bastards. They'll look for the free app first, too, and they won't pay more than a dollar or two to remove ads unless they use the app all the time.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  20. Does Fragmentation Matter? by west · · Score: 1

    If you are interested in software sales, the only thing that matters is how many people are going to actually *buy* your app.

    The real question is how many dollars a year users of each version are spending on apps (and if developers are considering iOS, how the dollars per year compare with Apple users).

    My completely anecdotal guess is developers can pretty safely forget v.2.x of Android without hugely harming sales.

    The real question (and I don't have enough info) is should developers who are trying to make a living from apps forget about Android apps altogether? (i.e. is it like writing and selling Linux applications - can be done, but you don't do it for the $ alone)?

    1. Re:Does Fragmentation Matter? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      My completely anecdotal guess is developers can pretty safely forget v.2.x of Android without hugely harming sales.

      Nope. Phones are still being sold with gingerbread. But here's the truth: developers of software which requires a powerful phone (or whatever) can ignore 2.x, because all the devices which are fast by modern standards run at least ICS.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  21. Re:Fragmentation has nothing to do with selling ph by Brucelet · · Score: 1

    The PC market has hardware fragmentation, but you know what operating system you'll be running on. Mobile OSs change much more quickly.

  22. Mathematical! by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let's see. With Apple, you can target 100% of 17% = 17% of phone buyers, whereas with Android you can target 75% of 75% = 56% of phone buyers.

    1. Re:Mathematical! by Karlt1 · · Score: 1, Informative

      Let's see. With Apple, you can target 100% of 17% = 17% of phone buyers, whereas with Android you can target 75% of 75% = 56% of phone buyers.

      http://techland.time.com/2013/04/16/ios-vs-android/

      iOS users spend 3.5x as much on apps as Android users....

      And iOS users are on average more affluent....

      http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/26/forrester-iphone-app-users-young-and-wealthy-android-app-users-skew-older/

    2. Re:Mathematical! by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      Nearly all of the apps on my kids iPad grandma gifted them are free. We have bought only a handful of educational ones we deemed to be useful in filling their brains with knowledge. We have over the past couple of years sifted through roughly 500 educational programs which were all free.

      I think iOS users spending more on apps does not demonstrate there are fewer free apps. I do think it means that people who buy iOS devices are willing to spend money on apps though.
      Spending more is not equivalent to fewer free apps in Apples store.
      There may in fact be fewer free apps in apples store, but the corollary doesn't seem very tight to me.

      Your second point is intriguing though.

    3. Re:Mathematical! by denmarkw00t · · Score: 1

      RAAAARRGGHHH again FACTS 4.x is NOT 75% of the market. It's almost 60%. Sorry, I just keep having to point this out...

  23. As a developer, it's not as fragmented now.. by goruka · · Score: 2

    For applications, it never wasn't much of a problem.
    However for games, the biggest problems I faced were the different configurations of the CPU (some included NEON and some didn't, which improves performance enormously), and the GPU ( OpenGL ES implementations were buggy depending on drivers, different texture compression schemes, etc).

    Nowadays, everything is coming out with NEON and future phones are starting to support OpenGL ES 3.0, which is much more standarized (that will take some years to settle though). However, it's mainly supporting the 4 main architectures properly by checking the extensions: Tegra, Adreno, Mali and PowerVR. There are more (like the Rockchip ones, but those usually come with crappy hardware), but supporting those means that your app or game will run pretty much anywhere.
    The challenge is probably dealing with different screen resolutions and aspect ratios, which wasn't a problem on iOS until recently (iPhone 5).

  24. Re:Fragmentation has nothing to do with selling ph by scot4875 · · Score: 1

    Sure. It'll be running Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, or Windows 7. If it's a Mac it'll probably be running some flavor of OSX.

    All that 'fragmentation' doesn't seem to hurt the PC market too badly.

    --Jeremy

    --
    Jesus was a liberal
  25. Re:Fragmentation has nothing to do with selling ph by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

    > I wish there were some type of test suite that phone makers could offer to emulate their products,

    There is... kind of... the pile of old Android phones most Android developers have accumulated by now ;-)

    My pile: HTC HeroC, Samsung Epic4G, Motorola Photon, Galaxy S3 (current phone). Of the phones in the pile, only the Photon sits (battery removed) unloved and hated in a drawer, awaiting the day someone cracks that poor gimped phone's Motorola-permalocked 2.3.5 bootloader, breaks its chains & shackles, and lets it play Martin Luther King's "Free at Last!" exclamation while booting into Cyanogen.

  26. Re:Fragmentation has nothing to do with selling ph by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

    And this is somehow different from the PC market?

    I can't recall the last time I heard anybody complaining about the PC market being fragmented.

    Except that APIs like DirectX and the like smooth over a lot of the differences.

    And people do complain - because they complain PC games are ports of consoles. And that ATI sucks because you need to install this beta driver to play this game. Or NVidia sucks for the same reason.

    Hell, how many times have you heard that Intel graphics sucks? (And Intel graphics is the most popular by volume). Or how games on PCs have very little AAA titles, more indie games targeting lower end systems?

    Of course, Windows itself doesn't actually add many new killer features - maybe by DirectX level, so you don't actually lose that much if you target say, Windows XP.

    Thing is, Windows is remarkably unfragmented - a lot of differences are hidden away. Graphics? Intel. AMD. NVidia. It's remarkably easy to develop for them because you pick a card and use it. Windows? DirectX 9, 10, 11. They add spiffy eye candy the later you go, but unless you have a huge budget, you probably can stick with 9 because taking advantage of those features gets more difficult (and the need for fancier assets that cost more increases).

    Screen size? Well, this one is interesting because PC gamers almost universally say the default FOV sucks and hack in their own values.

    Beyond that, Windows abstracts it all - audio, keyboard, mouse, hard disk, network, etc. The PC is more monoculture now than ever. Hell, Android fragmentation can be akin to PCs when they ran DOS where you had dozens of video cards (with drivers that were completely different), audio boards could be somewhere in the memory map, etc.

    Those were NOT fun days.

  27. Android 4.2 broke the Wii Remote driver by tepples · · Score: 1

    Why does it matter, as an app developer? If your program runs without a force close and doesn't use any specific features to an Android version, your app shouldn't care if it is running on the latest code.

    The upgrade from Android 4.1 to Android 4.2 broke a lot of apps that act as drivers for Bluetooth input devices. It broke "Sixaxis Controller", a driver for Sony's Dual Shock 3 controller. That eventually got fixed. It also broke "Wiimote Controller", a driver for Nintendo's Wii Remote controller. That still isn't fixed.

    1. Re:Android 4.2 broke the Wii Remote driver by mcrbids · · Score: 2

      Even so, this represents an edge case, and not the majority of app development by far. Most apps don't do anything special with phone features.

      Look at it like this... if you compare IOS 6 to Android 4.x, you get:

      IOS: you get 90% of 25% of the market on a single relesae.

      Android: you get 75% of 75% of the market.

      You end up with more than twice the target audience with Android 56.25% vs 22.5%. Now, IOS people tend to buy more apps because IOS users are "premium" users and many Android devices are "freebie" phones that come with a cell plan. But even so, those numbers should be scaring the piss out of Apple.

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    2. Re:Android 4.2 broke the Wii Remote driver by denmarkw00t · · Score: 1

      I keep seeing "75%" and "Android 4.x" - please, see THIS -

      4.0.3 - 4.0.4
          - Ice Cream Sandwich
          - API: 15
          - Install base: 25.6%

      4.1.x
          - Jelly Bean
          - API: 16
          - Install base: 29.0%

      4.2.x
          - API: 17
          - Install base: 4.0%

      3 API versions across who knows how many minor versions, 25.6+29+4 = 58.6%

      58.6 != 75

  28. Re:Fragmentation has nothing to do with selling ph by rasmusbr · · Score: 1

    That would be nice for dealing with all the different implementations of SQLite and whatnot, but a lot of the really serious problems have to do with quirks at the firmware or hardware level that may be difficult to get to in an emulator.

    I believe the free version of Crittercism will let you detect that a specific device keeps crashing your app so you can fix it (or if you can't fix it - blacklist the device in the Play store) before you start getting one-star ratings from users.

  29. If the average iFan spends more by tepples · · Score: 1

    Not all phone buyers buy a lot of applications. In the early days of Android, Android phones were sold in a lot of countries that didn't yet have Google Checkout. So developers had to make their applications free and ad-supported to serve users in those countries, and users have since come to expect the $0.00 price. So let's assume hypothetically that the average member of the 17% spends four times as much money on priced applications as the average member of the 56%. In such a case, the developer of an iOS app would likely come out ahead.

  30. Android 2.3 doesn't support SNI by tepples · · Score: 1

    Doesn't matter that the screen is "small", or that the processor is barely 1GHz, if that, or it has 512MB of RAM, and ships with 2.3.

    Server Name Indication (SNI) allows name-based virtual hosting to work on SSL sites. The only remaining major web browsers that aren't compatible with SNI are Internet Explorer on Windows XP and Android Browser on Android 2.2 or 2.3. Try visiting SNI Test or Pin Eight on Chrome, Firefox on desktop, Safari on recent Mac OS X, or IE on recent Windows. Then try visiting it on your Android 2.x device.

    1. Re:Android 2.3 doesn't support SNI by Daniel_Staal · · Score: 1

      Worked just fine on my Android 2.3 device. Of course, one of the first apps I replaced with a free alternative was the browser... If it matters, there are good solutions out there.

      --
      'Sensible' is a curse word.
    2. Re:Android 2.3 doesn't support SNI by denmarkw00t · · Score: 1

      Having to download third-party software to meet security standards isn't a "good solution."

      Just saying.

      In all fairness, Google does apparently roll out security patches to older Android versions via Play, regardless of the fact that it may not be running 4.x

  31. Android 4 gets you 59%, if you ignore Kindle ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

    It's the same with targeting Android 4.0.x as the baseline. You will hit 75% of the Android market.

    Not really. According to the Google Android Dashboard of June 3 targeting Android 4.0.x will get you 59% of the Android market.

    Plus, that number is a bit of an overstatement. It only considers those who visit the Google Play Store. So a lot of Amazon Kindle Fires are not being counted. Many of those Kindles are stuck at Android 2.3.3.

  32. Three good reasons to go Android-exclusive by tepples · · Score: 1

    Nobody is going to make an Android-exclusive software

    "Nobody" is a strong word. Consider these three scenarios:

    One could develop an Android-exclusive application and use the revenue to buy a Mac, an iTrinket, and a developer certificate on which to port the application to iOS.

    One could develop an Android-exclusive application in one of the categories that Apple is known to ban.

    One could develop an Android-exclusive application that requires a gamepad. The forthcoming Ouya game console runs Android, and for game genres that aren't point-and-click, an on-screen gamepad isn't really a substitute for physical buttons. Let me know when Apple even ships a standard game controller for its current iBaubles.

    1. Re:Three good reasons to go Android-exclusive by glitch0 · · Score: 1
      --
      -Glitch "We all know Linux is great...it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." - Linus Torvalds
    2. Re:Three good reasons to go Android-exclusive by tepples · · Score: 1

      Cool on you for saying iTrinket and iBauble though

      What's the accepted neutral term that means "iPod touch, iPhone, or iPad"?

  33. Re:Pretty much. by DrGamez · · Score: 1

    cool.

  34. Both Apple and Google only look at their stores by perpenso · · Score: 1

    Note where Apple collects the stats from.... the app store. It stands to reason that users with older hardware are probably less active users and will be under represented.

    Google's stats (Android Dashboard) come from the Google Play Store. According to their numbers targeting Android 4.0 gets you 59% of the Android market. Of course that ignores Amazon Kindle Fires and other devices that don't use the Google Play store. Many of those Kindles are stuck at Android 2.3.

  35. So they're saying apple is still exactly the same by maliqua · · Score: 1

    As it was in the 80s no its not fragmented, no there are no clones, and yes your locked into there shit when you buy it.

    fuck apple

    and fuck all you sheep who cant get enough of it

  36. Re:Fragmentation has nothing to do with selling ph by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

    Four years ago, the latest version of Android was 1.5 Cupcake. Since that time, things have changed dramatically. The products in that market are evolving extremely quickly, creating fragmentation whenever a generation of devices is left behind.

    Eleven years ago, the latest version of Windows was XP. Since that time, Windows has had a few new coats of paint and the tools have changed, but targeting XP vs. targeting 7 with modern tools isn't particularly difficult to do in most cases, since the PC market is fairly mature, the products are fairly mature, and most of what people want from a computer hasn't changed in the last 11 years.

    When the PC market makes big leaps, fragmentation can occur and has, in fact, done so on numerous occasions, the two most obvious examples probably being the jumps from DOS to Windows and from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X, both of which caused a great deal of fragmentation at the time. Other examples are readily apparent, but what you'll note is that they primarily come from earlier days as the products matured into more stable forms. Such is the case with today's phone market. Suggesting that fragmentation is not a problem because other devices also have different versions to target is to ignore what those versions actually represent to developers and users.

  37. Re: Quick Translation by danaris · · Score: 1

    You say that like it's a bad thing (from an app developer standpoint)...

    --
    Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
  38. It is all so hokey by Aighearach · · Score: 1

    Fragmentation doesn't even mean having multiple versions in the wild at the same time... that is normal. And it is fairly easy to support all devices that have the features you want, by using the older techniques for functions that don't require newer features.

    Another thing that isn't "fragmentation" is devices having different screen sizes. Just like having different video cards doesn't mean your desktop OS is fragmented.

    What would be fragmentation, and isn't happening, would be if the phone companies released their own android versions with different APIs. But that is the one thing that google doesn't allow. To that end, just to use the android dev tools you have to agree to terms that forbid you from fragmenting android, and forbid you from releasing competing dev tools.

    As far as I can tell as an app developer, there is 0% fragmentation. And lots of bloggers who don't know what it is.

    1. Re:It is all so hokey by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Fragmentation doesn't even mean having multiple versions in the wild at the same time... that is normal.

      I tend to agree. Though most people think the opposite.

      And it is fairly easy to support all devices that have the features you want, by using the older techniques for functions that don't require newer features.

      Case by case it might be easy. The sum total of all the differences is not easy at all. And the real hassle comes when you get bug reports and you're not sure if it's specific to certain phones/OS versions. Then you have to find one to test with. Good luck with that with the variety of Android devices.

      Anyway, devices with different features certainly is fragmentation.

      Another thing that isn't "fragmentation" is devices having different screen sizes. Just like having different video cards doesn't mean your desktop OS is fragmented.

      Oh dear. The UI paradigm is quite different. Mobile device software excels when it's been designed for a particular screen size. Desktop apps have huge amounts of space by comparison and are designed for the user to choose the size for the particular task in hand.

      Mobile devices with different screen sizes certainly is fragmentation.

      As far as I can tell as an app developer, there is 0% fragmentation. And lots of bloggers who don't know what it is.

      By the statement that there is 0% fragmentation in the Android market, you prove that you are the one that doesn't know what it means.

    2. Re:It is all so hokey by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      It is mostly bad programming practices where you use fixed pixel values that create those programs. Sloppy programmers will have lots of device-specific bugs. The android SDK comes with an emulator that can set up all the known screen sizes and feature combinations.

      People who use absolute instead of relative sizing have the same problems on the web. Not only the obvious bugs, but also ones where the content needs to flow; best practices will avoid real bugs, and the data will be presented properly and without overlap even when there is a quirk where it doesn't look as good on a device.

      Yes, the UI paradigm is slightly different. Slightly. I'm an app developer, a bunch of hand-waving isn't going to make me believe it is different. It is a GUI app on a small touchscreen GUI with gestures. None of that changes what "fragmentation" means. Just as desktop apps are designed for the user to change the window size, smart phone apps are designed knowing that there are lots of different screen sizes. So on that point it is effectively identical. Believing the apps to be a special case where you know the size in advance is a naive mistake that puts you on the fast track to... device-specific bugs.

      An example of fragmentation is when I used to have to install Sun's Java version for a small number of apps, because there were differences from IBM's Java. THAT is fragmentation. And that is why android has such strict licensing around fragmentation; if you look at the actual steps they are taking, it has nothing to do with having different screen sizes in the wild. They make NO EFFORT to control that, even while they are indisputably taking a strong position against "fragmentation." They do entirely, categorically, ban people who use their dev tools from releasing competing dev tools or android versions.

      0% fragmentation was hyperbole. Fragmentation exists, in that there are hobbyist versions with various features. But currently, ~100% of those installs are aftermarket installs that void warranty. There is ~0% commercial fragmentation that should be of concern in device support.

    3. Re:It is all so hokey by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      People who use absolute instead of relative sizing have the same problems on the web.

      No, the web is different. On the web, fluid design only adapts for width. It typically extends the length as the width narrows in order to keep displaying essential content. So whether or not the design needs vertical scrolling is typically random. That's bad design for a native app. Native apps have screens such as lists or documents that are intended to scroll, and other screens that are not intended to scroll.

      A native app shouldn't leave the vertical to chance.

      Furthermore, the web compromises when it comes to background bitmaps. They are either repeated, or they show gaps around the edges, or are clipped. For native apps we do better. A background that is designed specifically for a given screen size will always be better.

      Just as desktop apps are designed for the user to change the window size, smart phone apps are designed knowing that there are lots of different screen sizes. So on that point it is effectively identical.

      That's far from identical. On a given phone the size is fixed. For a desktop, the user can change the size of the window. So for example on a desktop, if a toolbar is missing an item, the user can widen the window to include it. On a phone they can't. On a desktop they accept the idea that if they resize to a smaller window than the application needs, they get scroll bars to move around. On a native mobile app, scroll bars shouldn't appear simply because the natural app size is larger than the screen.

      But even that doesn't cover it. The actual best UI design can change fundamentally as the device size changes. On a reasonably large device, say a tablet, a split screen can be a great design for apps that have hierarchical objects. On a phone, it's probably too small for that to work well, so a different design is better.

      A mobile app design for a specific screen size will always be a better design than one that has to cope with random screen sizes.

    4. Re:It is all so hokey by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      apps just flow left to right and use swiping, or else need to change layouts when below a certain size. That the implementation details are different is irrelevant. It is the same class of bugs, with the same solution. If you don't make static assumptions about the exact size of the device, you only spend a little extra time making it robust. You don't have to do a bunch of device-specific work, and you shouldn't be having device-specific bugs. The sort of real device specific issues should only be feature-related; for example some devices only have a forwards facing camera, some only have a backwards facing camera. Defensive programming will prevent these bugs in the first place; you try to use the one you want, you fall back to any usable device found.

      Are there app-specific bugs in the wild? Yes, just as there are platform-specific and hardware-specific bugs in desktop apps. And it comes from the same bad programming practices in both.

    5. Re:It is all so hokey by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      The word design doesn't appear once in your response. You don't even know the topic I'm talking about. Of course you can program a UI that resizes. That doesn't make it a good design.

      apps just flow left to right and use swiping, or else need to change layouts when below a certain size.

      You mean above a certain size. The left/right drill down or swipe design is fine for small phones. It's larger tablet sizes when it starts to be a bit hokey for many uses.

  39. Re:Fragmentation has nothing to do with selling ph by hedwards · · Score: 1

    That's not really a fair time frame to choose. XP was never meant to still be in use. But, with the excessive wait for Vista and Vista being a flop, MS had to extend support for XP beyond the intended period of time.

    And there's no particular assurance that older games will run on newer versions of Windows due to general instability and hardware manufacturers don't always QA their hardware for ancient versions of DirectX either.

    And don't forget that MS does sometimes drop interfaces from DirectX or change them.

  40. Controller that costs as much as 20 games by tepples · · Score: 1

    Thank you. Between this, NVIDIA's Shield, and the various clip-on controllers that already worked on Android, it'll eventually boil down to who wants to buy a $60 controller to play a $3 game.

    1. Re:Controller that costs as much as 20 games by glitch0 · · Score: 1

      Yes, because PS3 and XBOX wireless controllers are $10 each, right?

      Oh wait, they're $45 and $55 each respectively. Seems pretty close to $60 to me. I'd rather pay $60 for a game controller and $3 for each game than $55 for a game controller and $60 for each game.

      That's just my opinion, but I'd be surprised if the majority of people (casual gamers) won't feel the same way, especially with portable games improving so much in quality.

      Also, just an FYI. All the android gamepads cost around that same price. Google around, the MOGA pro gamepad for android is $50, for example.

      Your point is moot, sir.

      --
      -Glitch "We all know Linux is great...it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." - Linus Torvalds
  41. Re:Pretty much. by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    I used to think like you.

    Then I got one, and discovered that you didn't have to become a wild-eyed fanboi to appreciate its utility.

    I don't even make or receive that many POTS calls--most of my voice calls are done using Skype on the laptop--but I really like being able to reach my daughter on the other side of the world via voice or video, anytime. It is also handy being able to check mail.

    Maps + GPS has helped me out a lot a couple of times when I've got lost in unfamiliar cities where all the signs were in a non-Latin alphabet.

    I'm also using my smartphone to learn how to read and write Chinese characters (see "Getting lost in places with non-Latin signage", above). This is an application I have a hard time imagining getting to work anywhere nearly as well on any other platform. (And it actually works heaps better with the smartphone form factor than it does with a tablet.)

    And in an area with highly variable weather, it is very helpful to be able to check conditions/forecast/radar on the go.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  42. Re:Fragmentation has nothing to do with selling ph by MacDork · · Score: 1

    The article misses the point entirely.

    I didn't RTFA (this IS slashdot), but I would say the iOS defenders are the ones missing the point. Apple loves to tout Android fragmentation as a huge shortcoming. They love to tout ease of use of iOS vs Android. They love to tout their designs and build quality. None of that matters. It didn't matter in the Mac vs PC debate. It doesn't matter now.

    Apple is losing marketshare rapidly. They will soon be in the < 10% range, just as they are with Mac. Developers are abandoning the platform, just as they did with Mac. Apple's hardware is chronically underpowered, again. Apple is using a custom processor instead of what everyone else in the industry is using, again. Apple is going to be a niche player AGAIN because they made all the same mistakes they did before.

    At least Android is based on Linux, unlike Windows before it. Face it. Apple has already lost.

  43. Re:Android 4 gets you 59%, if you ignore Kindle .. by denmarkw00t · · Score: 1

    THANK YOU. Only post so far mentioning the real numbers from the Dashboard and it's not even moderated...fantastic. Good call on Kindles - Nooks are behind as well AFAIK but I don't know what market they tap into.

  44. Re:Fragmentation has nothing to do with selling ph by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

    That's not really a fair time frame to choose.

    He chose it, not me. Take it up with him if he chose the wrong time frame to make his point.

    But, with the excessive wait for Vista and Vista being a flop, MS had to extend support for XP beyond the intended period of time.

    Yes, and what of it? Even if Vista had been a smashing success, none of my arguments were predicated on XP having a long life, so it wouldn't change any of them.

    And there's no particular assurance that older games will run on newer versions of Windows due to general instability and hardware manufacturers don't always QA their hardware for ancient versions of DirectX either.

    I already addressed the issue earlier when I said that it's fairly easy to target older versions with modern development tools, which it is. And older software not running on newer versions of the OS is completely irrelevant to what we're talking about. The issue at hand is how do people choose between multiple versions of an OS that exist contemporarily, and that's something quite different from what you're talking about.

    And don't forget that MS does sometimes drop interfaces from DirectX or change them.

    Okay...and? Have any of them caused major fragmentation in the Windows world? Clearly not, since what you've cited is extremely minor. Contrast that with the Android world, where the differences in just the last four years alone are dramatic.

    That was my point: that Windows has had very little change over the last decade, while Android has had rapid change over a much shorter period of time, and that the reason for those differences is because of the disparity in the relative maturity of those markets. PCs are a mature market that has more incremental and gradual changes at this point, whereas mobile devices are immature products that are still being fleshed out and redesigned in new ways. As such, the former doesn't suffer from much fragmentation any longer, while the latter does if it's not handled carefully.

  45. Who is going to buy your app? by symbolset · · Score: 1

    By the end of the year one billion Android devices will be in active use. You don't need to sell a huge fraction of those to make a good living.

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    1. Re:Who is going to buy your app? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      And with Android you won't sell to a huge fraction of those. You'll end up switching to an adware model in the hope of making up some of the development cost.

    2. Re:Who is going to buy your app? by symbolset · · Score: 1

      Plenty of folks are doing quite well. It's hard to think of something interesting that doesn't suck if you're older than 15. If you're looking for ideas one that pairs two android devices to synch the display from one with the inputs from the other would be quite handy. Frame rate doesn't have to be high but input latency has to be low. I could use something that lets me control my HDTV Android sticks from my phones or tablets, to use in my bedroom and in the boardroom for Netflix and slide presos. You could probably sell a few million of that for a buck with an afternoon's work. I would do it myself, but you know: busy, busy. Call it "pairing" or "teaming" or "cloning" or something. Don't forget to send me a link and maybe reference this comment in our patent application.

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    3. Re:Who is going to buy your app? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Too busy to make a few million bucks for an afternoon's work. Yet enough time to read and post to Slashdot. That's some weird kind of busy you've got there.

      For sure, profitable mobile app development looks far easier from the outside.

  46. Re:Fragmentation has nothing to do with selling ph by symbolset · · Score: 1

    Hey, Android fragmentation makes it harder to develop apps that target every possible Android phone if you want to enable the cool new features on retro phones. But as a developer you're free to target whatever slice of the Android ecosystem you want to. No matter what level you pick, that's still a lot of pie. One billion slices of pie by the end of this year and growing at such a rate that Android devices may soon outnumber all mankind. What are you going to do? NOT develop for Android? I suppose that's a strategy.

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  47. You can rent this by symbolset · · Score: 1

    There are a number of services that rent this facility. testdroid is one that offers 200+ devices. Here is a nice Google search. The services are not free, of course.

    I don't know anything about the testdroid service. Just trying to help.

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  48. Probability of a given app running? by drewm1980 · · Score: 1

    But what is the probability of a randomly selected app running on a randomly selected phone or device? I have an old ipod touch that sure is shiny, but the most advanced app I can find that will install on it is an egg timer. Is the fragmentation of android forcing devs to develop for the common denominator, improving compatibility for the users, or hurting it?

    1. Re:Probability of a given app running? by drewm1980 · · Score: 1

      To say it more succinctly, if your device falls into that "Earlier iOS 1%" slice of the pie, you're screwed.

  49. Re:Android 4 gets you 59%, if you ignore Kindle .. by perpenso · · Score: 1

    Nooks can now access the Google Play store, B&N added that recently.

  50. Re:Fragmentation has nothing to do with selling ph by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

    To be honest, targeting different Android versions isn't that hard thanks to the support library.

    --
    Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
  51. Re:Fragmentation has nothing to do with selling ph by smash · · Score: 1

    If you target Windows XP and 7 you have over 90 percent of the market. On the Mac if you target the current and previous release, you have the vast majority of the market. still much less fragmented than android.

    --
    I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
  52. Bundled or used controllers by tepples · · Score: 1

    Yes, because PS3 and XBOX wireless controllers are $10 each, right?

    Player 1's controller is $0 with the purchase of a console. Additional controllers are needed only for same-screen multiplayer, and Slashdot regulars such as CronoCloud have long maintained that same-screen is most useful to children, who have already become a minority in the market, and is dying out in favor of online. Besides, I've found it a lot easier to find used controllers for consoles than for phones. I bought the Xbox 360 wired controller that I use for PC gaming at this pawn shop.

    I'd rather pay $60 for a game controller and $3 for each game [and] I'd be surprised if the majority of people (casual gamers) won't feel the same way, especially with portable games improving so much in quality.

    I was under the impression that casual gamers expected handheld games to be in point-and-click genres, like Cut the Rope, Angry Birds, Fruit Ninja, Bejeweled, and the like. On consoles, conventional wisdom is that games requiring a specialized accessory (like Guitar Hero, DDR, and Wii Fit) have tended to sell well only when bundled with that accessory.

    Let me rephrase it a different way: If you were to find an Android game on Google Play that could not be played to completion with just the on-screen gamepad, how many people do you think would ignore the "Controller strongly recommended" in the description, buy it, and give a one-star rating that it's too hard?

    One could develop an Android-exclusive application that requires a gamepad [for the] forthcoming Ouya game console

    All the android gamepads cost around that same price.

    I wasn't singling out iPhone vs. Android as much as iPhone vs. 3DS/Vita. The Ouya console includes one controller. And even if you limit it to phones and tablets, if you happen to own an Xbox 360 controller or any HID controllers for the PC, those work with an Android 4 device through a $2 USB OTG cable.

  53. Does it really matter? by RobbieCrash · · Score: 1

    The reason there's so much fragmentation in Android is that people are still buying 3 year old phones because having a shitty smartphone is better than having a dumb phone. That's the same reason Android users pay less than iPhone users for apps.

    Those people aren't going to buy the apps developers make; they're going to be fine using whatever is on their phone and never thinking anything more about it.

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    1. Re:Does it really matter? by neminem · · Score: 1

      I'd totally buy apps developers make, if they'd run on my phone. Yes, I did buy a cheap phone, though, because being able to run any app wasn't worth a couple hundred dollars. Actually, for that matter, maybe it would've been if I found a Ting-eligible phone that allowed tethering, had a physical keyboard *and* ran Android 4.x, but I only saw phones with 2 out of 3, so I bought the one I could get for 25 bucks (refurb, after discount). It's a great phone, even if I do wish it could run more apps.

  54. Re:Why do losers tout "shipment" by Xest · · Score: 1

    This argument is FUD and always has been. It was a myth made up by marketing trolls for Sony during the last console war trying to justify why their console wasn't selling as well as the XBox 360 for a long long time.

    The fact is you can't just "stuff" a channel with millions of units, because retail wont accept it. They're not just going to accept being a storage repository for all your devices you can't sell, that doesn't, and won't happen.

    You may be able to get away with stuffing by a few thousand units, but retail corporations have a pretty easy time of telling what does and doesn't and is and isn't selling/going to sell because of the data mining they all engage in nowadays.

    Try and shuffle even a million extra units to a retailer to try and pump your "shipped vs. sold" stats and they'll laugh in your face and tell you to take them straight back.

    In reality, shipped and sold are basically identical. Retailers stock pretty much only what they can sell with very little tolerance beyond that. They don't want unsellable products in their stock rooms because it costs them way too much when they could be stocking sellable products instead.

    The other issue with the whole "shipped vs. sold" myth is that most companies who say they've "sold" x number of devices are going off their shipped figures anyway, because there's generally no feedback mechanism by which they can tell whether their product has actually sold when they ship it beyond looking at how many devices retailers are willing to let them ship.

    So in practice shipped and sold are the exact same thing. If someone says they "sold" x number of devices then unless they're selling direct and there's none being sold via retail then they're lying to you and have no idea what they've sold, only what they shipped. If someone says they shipped x number of devices, then they did, and those devices will more often than not be sold in very short time, otherwise they'll be returned to the manufacturer.

    There are smaller retailers that aren't so efficient at ensuring their shipped and sold figures remain pretty similar, but they're such a minority as to be negligible which is why in general coupled with the fact sold normally equals shipped anyway you can safely assume that shipped ~= sold. There is no big channel stuffing multi-million unit conspiracies going on as Sony pretended with the XBox 360 originally, turns out those boxes were indeed actually selling.

  55. Re:Fragmentation has nothing to do with selling ph by Xest · · Score: 1

    "I question anyone who says it isn't an issue. Either you aren't doing development or you haven't built something complex enough to see the various issues."

    Please consider that there may be a 3rd option - they're simply more experienced and competent than you are.

    Developers such as Win32 API programmers have been dealing with this exact issue for about two decades now, it's trivially dealt with because to any developer with even the slightest bit of experience this sort of problem is run of the mill, a relative non-issue. The whole PC market was built around much more numerous combinations of hardware and software yet was still massively more successful than the likes of Apple's one track ecosystem precisely because developers did learn to deal with it, and more often than not it just means ensuring your software architecture properly abstracts what it needs to abstract.