Tennessee Official: Water Complaints Could be "Act of Terrorism"

An anonymous reader writes "A Tennessee Department of Environment and Conservation deputy director is threatening citizens with being listed as terrorists for giving official complaints. Sherwin Smith, deputy director of TDEC’s Division of Water Resources said: 'But you need to make sure that when you make water quality complaints you have a basis, because federally, if there's no water quality issues, that can be considered under Homeland Security an act of terrorism.' 'In terms of the comments made by a member of the Water Resources Division at the meeting, we are just receiving the information and looking into this on our end,' spokeswoman Meg Lockhart said. 'The department would like to fully assess what was said in the meeting. I am told that the meeting was far longer than the audio clip provided by SOCM and that Mr. Smith actually clarified his remarks. But again, we are looking into it.'"

Comments

Scare tactics

[memnock]

The government's number one tool in the fight against terrorism.

Re:Scare tactics

[K. S. Kyosuke]

The violators will be subjected to interrogration by the newly-established Federal Water Board. After federal water boarding, they'll be shipped to Gitmo.

Re:Scare tactics

[bill_mcgonigle]

The government's number one tool in the fight against terrorism.

I hate to say it, but by definition, the only way for terrorism to work is for people to be terrified.

If the People would grow a backbone again, and stop being terrified, no matter if it's salafi jihadists or government propagandists who are attempting the scaring, then there could be no terrorism. War's over, let's pack up and go home.

A skiddish populous is the #1 tool in the effort that has been misnamed the "War on Terror".

Re:Scare tactics

[Dunbal]

Better to live a single day as a lion than a thousand years as a lamb.

Re:Scare tactics

[rk]

7-pool is better than a 6-pool, but if they wall off before your zerglings get there, you're toast. Roach timings are better, especially if the Terran goes early expand.

Re:Scare tactics

[milkmage]

there may be some foundation though.. remember the "dihydrogen monoxide" prank those Florida DJs pulled on April Fools.

possible felony charges (of course this was radio, so that's understandable because of the panic they caused)

the charges never materialized.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/entertainment/2013/04/florida-djs-april-fools-water-joke/63798/

Re:Scare tactics

[gmuslera]

The easiest way to always have terrorists is to create them.

Re:Scare tactics

[Anonymous Coward]

When you put it that way... actually, living like a lamb doesn't sound like such a bad idea on the surface. Sounds like a nice, calm, peaceful existence. Whereas living like a lion sounds like every day would be a struggle to survive.

I get what you were trying to say, but there's got to be a better way to say it.

Re:Scare tactics

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's where my imagination runs wild - I mean what I'm about to post is pure fiction:

Somewhere near this town, some very well connected industry and industrialist is polluting the water.

Now, a rich and powerful person who makes a lot of campaign contributions can order his bitch to order the state bureaucrat to hide the problem to intimidate people to shut up. I think it's called racketeering.

Because after all, it's not like corrupt government officials in Tennessee have ever tried to screw over their citizens before.

But this is PURE fantasy and it couldn't possibly happen in real life.Businesses are always trying to clean up the environment even if it hurts their bottom line!

That'll be what I say in my deposition.

Re:Scare tactics

[Concerned Onlooker]

In other news Orson Welles is retroactively found guilty of terrorism by a secret government court.

Re:Scare tactics

[gl4ss]

personally I'm waiting for them to label schoolyard bullies as terrorists since obviously they're terrorizing people and the law must be the same for everyone - no exceptions(exept gov.)!

Re:Scare tactics

[mc6809e]

The government's number one tool in the fight against terrorism.

Is to terrorize innocent people with threats of imprisonment?

Re:Scare tactics

[HiThere]

Given what you say, it's the government that are the terrorists.

The government is the entity that decided that the people were afraid. The governments actions have caused me to be afraid...of the government.

Re:Scare tactics

[king neckbeard]

Yes, there are no other differences in China and other countries that could impact this difference, such as vastly differing viewpoints on human rights and value of individuality. Also, what kind of mental gymnastics does it take to associate a lack of parking tickets with it being dangerous to cross the street? Parked cars are rarely a danger to anyone, especially a pedestrian.

However, in an experiment, a Dutch town removed basically all traffic signs and were considerably safer, because instead of relying upon signs and stoplights to tell them what to do, they had to instead actually pay attention to their surroundings. Believe it or not, we generally have strong instincts for self-preservation, and social mechanisms often work better than rules or legal mechanisms when no such system exists.

Re:Scare tactics

[msauve]

We can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

You know when fluoridation first began?

Nineteen hundred and forty-six. 1946. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works.

Re:Scare tactics

[fredgiblet]

They're already suspending kids for gun-shaped pop-tarts, it seems like bullies should be higher on their lists than that.

Re:Scare tactics

[msauve]

LOL. You've apparently never seen Dr. Strangelove. Hint: you're Jack D. Ripper.

Re:Scare tactics

[Grishnakh]

Not a chance that'll happen. In America, we like bullies, and we make fun of people who are their victims. Just look at what happens every time a bullying incidents develops to the point that some poor kid kills him/herself. Americans worship assholes. We might say a few nice-sounding words against bullies once in a while, but we'll never do anything to actually fix the problem, nor will we ever hold bullies accountable for their behavior.

It's just like how we worship sociopathic business owners, and defend thier unethical and even dangerous behavior, and anyone who complains about them is blackballed in the industry. Whistleblowers (for instance, people who go to the government to stop a business owner whose practices will get someone killed through negligence) are seen as "rats", and will never get another job.

Re:Scare tactics

[Anonymous Coward]

yipee kay yay, motherfucker!

Re:Scare tactics

[pla]

When you put it that way... actually, living like a lamb doesn't sound like such a bad idea on the surface. Sounds like a nice, calm, peaceful existence. Whereas living like a lion sounds like every day would be a struggle to survive.

One of those things eats the other.

Hint: The lion only fears other lions. The lamb fears that big scary yellow ball chasing it over the horizon every morning.

Re:Scare tactics

[mhajicek]

Very much so. I have never in my life been afraid of a foreign terrorist, but often afraid of those who control this nation.

Re:Scare tactics

[hairyfeet]

Nah if its like the rest of the south they'll be locked up in a shithole of a county jail, with wires hanging down and shit falling apart, but it cost the taxpayers millions thanks to good old boy politics, aka massive corruption.

Sadly the whole south is full of little fiefdoms that are corrupt as hell. I had a bud that flew drug interdiction for the USAF and they used to have jokes like "Why does the sheriff of (insert county) bust so many meth labs? because he doesn't want the competition!" rimshot. The feds know this but they know if they were to bust all of the corrupt cops you would end up having to use the National Guard because in a lot of these places you wouldn't have enough cops left to maintain the peace. My USAF friend said ANY fed could find out if a local police force was corrupt by just 30 minutes of looking at the land deeds, why? You'll find tons of pine forests owned by the cops or close relatives of the cops...because pine trees put out enough heat to foil their infrared scans.

I have lived my entire life in the south and one thing you learn, if you get on "the right side" of the local politicians and cops? You have nothing to worry about ever. You try stepping on their toes, rocking the boat? they can turn your world into shit REAL quick, you'd be surprised how many laws are on the books in your average state they can use against you.

Re:Scare tactics

[chihowa]

A thousand years of abject terror.

Re:Scare tactics

[cusco]

Nothing new here, Alcohol prohibition was enforced by police against the cop's competitors 'way back when my grandfather's uncle got his still smashed in the 1920s. The funniest thing to me is that most small town residents that I've known think that there's no official corruption in their community, that it's just a problem for the 'big cities'.

Re:Scare tactics

[cusco]

The only thing dumber than an adult sheep is a lamb. The saying fits our population better than the original poster may have intended.

Re:Scare tactics

[jordan_robot]

I can't let this go.

Estimated US deaths due to alcohol: 80,000... per year. The estimated economic costs of excessive alcohol consumption (in 2006) were $223.5 billion

Lets look at some other numbers from the CDC on deaths in 2010...
Heart disease: 597,689
Cancer: 574,743
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 138,080
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 129,476
Alzheimer's disease: 83,494
Diabetes: 69,071
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,476
Influenza and Pneumonia: 50,097
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 38,364

Homicide: 16,259.
Motor Vehicular-related: 32,885

So don't go on about how the Afghanistan campaign is proportionate. You look like a putz.

Re:Scare tactics

[geoskd]

The "War on Terror" is symbolic language for the war against al Qaida, just as the "war against fascism" was symbolic language for the fight against Germany and Italy in WW2. Supposedly smart people should be able to understand symbolism, but there seems to be little evidence for it on Slashdot since I keep reading the same nonsense over and over again.

You don't have to be terrified to take actions against terrorists. Just making the judgment that it is prudent to prevent mass slaughter of your fellow citizens is enough. Or maybe you could explain why it is a good idea to let your fellow citizens be killed by the thousands and do nothing?

Be very careful giving government the power to do anything for any justification. In the history of the world, orders of magnitude more atrocities have been commited by those in power when there have been no effective checks on that power. Terrorists may have managed to kill several thousand people in the world trade centers, but it took a fascist state to bring about the Holocaust.

In short, government without restrictions is far more dangerous than all the terrorists in the world combined. This should be amply evidenced by their shameless use of the existence of terrorists to expand their own power, and reduce all of our freedoms.

-=Geoskd

Re:Scare tactics

[lightknight]

Actually...lions aren't fans of many other species. Hyenas for example. Large enough numbers of hyenas can take down a lioness.

Just because you're at the top of the local food chain...or occupying one of the higher positions, doesn't mean you don't see a pair of fork and knives when you look down.

Re:Scare tactics

[hairyfeet]

Hell it was frankly better in the old days, as at least then the cops were "honest" in their corruption. My mom worked at a truck stop when she was a teen and she said every week, you could set your watch by it, the local sheriff would come in to have a meal...and leave with an envelope that more or one of the other servers were told to stick under the plate before handing it to him. But she said you didn't get all this head cracking hassling teens bullshit because all the cops cared about was making sure you didn't tear up shit or act crazy and hurt somebody, a far cry from the 'roid monsters you get nowadays.

And for the dumbass AC that said "Oh well, nothing illegal about cops owning pine forests"? If you have a pine forest that is practically NEVER harvested, isn't making squat compared to what that same rich land would make if you used it for something else, yet in county after county you see the cops ALL have the exact same setup? Well it don't take Kojack to solve the case of the peculiar pine forest,especially when you know that the longer and bigger you allow a pine forest to get the more it throws off DEA infrared. my USAF buddy said you could have both meth labs and underground pot farms in those and the DEA won't be able to spot it because the pines just put off too much heat.

Re:Scare tactics

[martinX]

Well, it is hard to have "sheep" and "Romance" in the same sentence. Unless you're from New Zealand.

Re:Scare tactics

[tbuskey]

Lamb, Chicken, Cows and Pigs are not endangered species. Lions are.

There's a worth in becoming domesticated. Ever see a wild Cow?

Re:Scare tactics

[jordan_robot]

The poster I responded was essentially arguing that the US should not be engaged in military action to defend itself as long as disease killed more people. It was a nonsense argument whether you apply it to national defense or law enforcement, which is what I was demonstrating.

Whoa, whoa. Don't you put words in my mouth; I never said anything of the sort. Full stop.

All I did was re-print some fatality statistics that showed the numbers argument is worthless when justifying the war on terror. I didn't think my brevity would be taken to mean so much more.

Honestly, you can blast the shit out of [actual] terrorists and I'll cheer, go get em & godspeed. But to state that the reaction to 9/11 and other terrorist attacks is proportionate to the amount of lives and money lost is just not true. If it were, at least some of the other more significant causes of fatalities and monetary loss would have more of a reaction than 9/11. Its not about the numbers, it is about the reaction to being violated. Its about revenge, and making the disproportionate response known... the cost of such future attacks outweigh any benefit.

And the putz thing was a bit too much. My apologies, I'm sure you're not a penis.

Re:Scare tactics

[Cwix]

FYI I would counter most Americans know what mutton is, why you ask? Seinfeld did an episode based on mutton.

This has to end..

[Mister Transistor]

Welcome to the new McCarthyism. Any time you do anything "they" don't like, you're a ter'ist...

Re:This has to end..

[Truekaiser]

Umm.
No, they were unfounded.
The 'documents' you're referring to are the venona intercepts.
You can read them here. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/venona/intercepts.html
It had nothing to do with undermining the entire U.S. Government as McCarthy was paranoid about.
It was about Our government trying to find soviet spys who were only here for one thing. To get information on the atomic bomb.
If you actually knew the history of the time, there was a short period where the united states was the only actor to have nuclear weaponry and everyone wanted it.

Re:This has to end..

[Concerned Onlooker]

I am in agreement with Mister Transistor on this one. Abuse of the terrorist label seems to be going up, not down. I was going to suggest we call what's going on now McCarthyism v2.

Re:This has to end..

[Jmc23]

No, the terrorist label is being used exactly in the way it was conceived of by the US governement, as a method to terrorize their citizens to achieve their goals without resistance.

Re:This has to end..

[amiga3D]

I don't give a shit about him. The Federal Government's job is to guarantee and secure our freedoms and rights. That's the purpose of the Constitution which is supposed to be the basis for all Federal law. From all enemies both foreign and DOMESTIC. Including the dickhead from the Tennessee Department of Environment and Conservation.

Re:This has to end..

[minstrelmike]

The purpose of the Federal Government is to guarantee and secure our freedom and rights. Of course this asshole and most others in the Fed have lost sight of this.

Let me see if I've got this straight. Other people and the government (which is apparently a different thang than 'other people') are the ones who are supposed to protect each and every one of us against other people and the government taking away our rights?

There's a reason I think the term 'rights' is pretty much just philosophic bullshit.
Pretend you're an analyst trying to define the requirement of rights for a society. Splain how that would work.

it's true you know

[Trepidity]

Citizen complaints sometimes terrify people!

I just hate being wrong all the time

[folderol]

yet every time I think officialdom can't get any more stupid, they go and prove me wrong... again!

Re:I just hate being wrong all the time

[AmazingRuss]

Eventually they will reach a singularity of stupid, from which no intelligence can escape.

Re:I just hate being wrong all the time

[dcollins117]

Eventually they will reach a singularity of stupid, from which no intelligence can escape.

We reached that with George W. Bush. Now we're in a black hole of stupid.

Re:I don't get it.

[click2005]

They dont want you dead, just obedient, subservient, docile and blindly supporting them. How can you make them richer & more powerful if you're dead?

Fire Sherwin Smith immediately

[Anonymous Coward]

Sherwin Smith should be fired immediately. If I threatened my customers, my boss would rightfully fire me on the spot.

Re:Fire Sherwin Smith immediately

[hawguy]

Sherwin Smith should be fired immediately. If I threatened my customers, my boss would rightfully fire me on the spot.

Public agencies utilities don't have "customers", they have "captive consumers". You can threaten them or piss them off all you want, they have no choice but to keep buying your product or paying taxes at whatever price you set.

Re:Fire Sherwin Smith immediately

[stephanruby]

Sherwin Smith should be fired immediately.

And did you notice? Just before that quote, Sherwin Smith had said that all the people who originally complained had backed down once he gave them a phone call, so they didn't have to do any water testing. In light of the terrorist comment, it's now obvious what he told them to make them back down.

This guy shouldn't just be fired. He should be put on leave on absence and he should be investigated for possible criminal negligence. And all the complaints he received should be re-investigated by an impartial third party.

If someone, that had formally complained, now dies because this guy didn't want to test the water, it will be his head and the heads of any of his superiors that support him, that will roll because of their willful negligence.

Re:Fire Sherwin Smith immediately

[meglon]

You are incorrect.

As often noted by rabid conservative anti-government ideologues wanting to make points through a ludicrous idiotic adulteration of logic: "You choose to remain within the physical area that the government controls, therefor it's your choice.... you can leave anytime you want."

A grave threat

[DarkOx]

This is no doubt the sort of horrifying terrorist plot the NSA telephone surveillance program has been so successful foiling. Thank good we has such dedicated protectors to save us from the terrorists.

Treating free speech as terrorism IS terrorism

[schwit1]

This government official needs to be brought up on charges of making verbal threats and abuse of power.

Re:Oh well, it was nice while it lasted...

[lxs]

I don't know. I think Terry Gilliam was very close to making this shit up when he wrote the script for Brazil.

Any civil servant threatening

[kawabago]

Any civil servant threatening terrorism charges for complaints from the public should be immediately fired. He/she does not have the public interest at heart.

Re:Sensationalism

[DarkOx]

listed as terrorists for giving unfounded official complaints

Fine even if that is the case we have other laws that cover things like that. "Making false reports", "libel", and "slander", would be some potential examples. These laws carry with them what most people consider to be appropriate penalties and restitution requirements. Slapping the term "terrorist' on everyone who steps even slightly out line has all sorts of negative consequences.

Re:Sensationalism

[PPH]

Right. And lets take this a step further. What is an "official complaint"? Making a public statement I can understand as designed to instill fear among the general population. But raising the issue either through official channels for such feedback? Nope. They asked for comments, they got them. If they don't like them, tough.

Its also my understanding that the complaints were along the lines of: "This water makes me/my kids sick." Not, "There's poison in the water." The former is subjective and purely dependent on the sensitivity of the particular consumer to some attribute of the water.

Re:Oh well, it was nice while it lasted...

[pipatron]

Why? I've read a lot of articles here on slashdot over the past years about the US accusing China for snooping.

Isn't it fair when it's exposed that the US does the same on an even larger scale, for China to mention this hypocrisy?

And this is why we should fear government

[naasking]

And this is why we should fear how much the government should be allowed to intrude into our lives. Because who knows what sort of low-level bitter bureaucrat may just take a disliking to you, and end up abusing government powers.

Excessive unfounded complaints, probably

[Todd Knarr]

If there's several simultaneous valid complaints alleging something like a serious illness, the water system may have to be shut down while it's tested or risk spread of a contamination. We've had that happen several times where I live (and I live in a major metropolitan area) when initial tests have shown a possible bacterial problem and they've needed several days for comprehensive tests to tell whether there really is a problem or not. I'd be outraged if a single complaint would have them labeling the complainant a terrorist, but I suspect the missing context is that they're discussing concerted multiple reports filed with the intent of forcing a shutdown and possibly where the complainants are aware they don't have a reasonable basis for the complaints (think anti-fluoridation kooks wanting to "send a message").