Slashdot Mirror
Wikileaks Aiding Snowden - Chinese Social Media Divided - Relations Strained
cold fjord writes "Despite the US cancelling his passport, Edward Snowden continues his travels aided by Wikileaks, and is leaving a trail of strained diplomatic relations in his wake. It appears China gifted the issue to Russia. From Yahoo: 'Lawyer Albert Ho, ... a Hong Kong legislator ... told reporters he was approached by Snowden several days ago, and that the American had sought assurances ... whether he could leave the city freely if he chose to do so... Snowden later told Ho an individual claiming to represent the Hong Kong government had contacted him and indicated he should leave the city, and wouldn't be stopped ... Ho said he believed the middleman was acting on Beijing's orders.' From the NYT: Julian Assange, ...said in an interview ... 'that he had raised Mr. Snowden's case with Ecuador's government and that his group had helped arrange the travel documents.' From WSJ: 'Edward Snowden has generated more than a million posts on one of China's biggest social media platforms... Sina Weibo, a popular Chinese microblogging service, exploded with activity on Sunday as Mr. Snowden left ... Mr. Snowden was hailed as a hero ... last week, but posts on Sunday and Monday were divided... "All crows are black," said a number of users, citing an Chinese old saying, to describe both American and Chinese government's surveillance programs. ... "Snowden has helped China so much. Why did we let him go?" said one ... Some suggested that China should keep Mr. Snowden as a weapon against repeated accusations of China hacking U.S. companies. More extreme users complained that China is "too soft on the U.S." "Russia is a real strong country to accept him," ... Another popular term: "hot potato," reflecting relief that Hong Kong wouldn't have to stand against U.S. efforts to take him into custody. Some users criticized Mr. Snowden for fleeing.' From the Guardian: 'Snowden's escape from Hong Kong infuriated US politicians, while China focused on condemning Washington over his latest disclosures, which suggested the NSA had hacked into Chinese mobile phone companies ... Moscow was also drawn into the controversy after it emerged that Snowden's passport had been revoked before he left Hong Kong and he did not have a visa for Russia. But Russia appeared indifferent to the uproar, with one official saying Snowden was safe from the authorities as long as he remained in the transit lounge at the city's Sheremetyevo airport. Dmitry Peskov, spokesman for the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, said: "I know nothing."' From ABC: Snowden registered for the flight to Havana that leaves Moscow on Monday..."
Snowden has alerted the whole World that our freedom is a sham, and that our governments treat our privacy with total contempt. I hope he survives this episode and will be seen in the future as somebody who did more for regular people than any politician.
Smivs on the intertubes!
And this means any secrets he may know about anything will be handed over to them. At this point he is headed to Cuba where he can give whatever Top Secret information he can to the Cubans. How can anyone see him as a hero if he's helping a government recognized as a dictatorship to build up it's spy machine capabilities, to defeat US spy machine capabilities, or both?
What impact will his knowledge have on Syrian rebel forces? What impact will his knowledge have on troops? Does he know troop positions? Whatever he knows the US government must now assume they know. I just hope not too many innocent civilians get hurt from Snowdens decisions.
Never been in a prison, have you? I worked in one when I was in grad school. It's not as "romantic" as you think. Or in ways you might enjoy.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
Seeing all the implicit (eyes being turned) and explicit (ecuador, wikileaks, others) help he's getting, one could almost get the impression that the US Government (not people) is seriously unpopular around the world.
And getting revenge on a bully is always particularly sweet.
Never been in a prison, have you? I worked in one when I was in grad school. It's not as "romantic" as you think. Or in ways you might enjoy.
Snowden already is in a prisoners position. He's now the property of whatever foreign intelligence agency is protecting him and they don't have to respect his human rights. They are nice to him because he's giving them what they want. Do you really believe he's being protected out of government kindness?
many chicks would fuck dudes who are "living on handouts from foreign governments".
and on the newspapers. hell, some chicks marry ugly psychopaths who are jailed in the US...
anyhow, if he had been a dude with nothing to lose, he would seem more like an eeeeeviiiiil communist spy.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Hanssen and Ames were handing over things like troop strength, locations of CIA operatives, etc. to the Soviets for cash. They weren't blowing the whistle to the press on an illegal internal spying program. Pretty big difference there.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Exactly what country do you expect him to go to? There are only about 5-6 countries in the world that aren't the total lapdogs of the U.S. government (or at least in bed with them). That doesn't exactly leave him a lot of options if he wants to remain free and not have all his (very important) information just buried again.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
There's nothing saying that a conscientious objector can't look out for their own well-being while also serving the good of the public at large. And the claims he has made to date have been specific accusations based on specific evidence for which he has a reasonable belief that making them public will help to avert problems that will affect the public, which is exactly how proper whistle-blowing should be done.
You're asking him to fall on his own sword after realizing the issues with the organizations he was in, which is entirely unreasonable.
No, they won't 'keep him for free', but will gladly offer him sanctaury, particularly as his presence there is going to be a constant source of annoyance to the US, a country they dislike and distrust.
And no, I don't think I'm naive.
Snowden has let us all see that none of our data or online activity is remotely private and that our information is everything and everywhere. Because various governments share intelligence, it means for example that a UK citizen (whose data is sort of 'legally protected' from UK surveillance agencies) could find his data being forwarded to him by say the US government. Because shared intelligence from a foreign source is not subject to the level of legal scrutiny and constraint as information gathered by UK sources, it could immediately become more accessable to UK agencies. And this works the other way round. It means that safeguards put in place to 'protect' a country's own citizens can be more easily circumvented.
Smivs on the intertubes!
Or perhaps the people of the world don't like getting spied on, and are willing to look the other way if the man who notified them is passing through.
the property of whatever foreign intelligence agency is protecting him and they don't have to respect his human rights.
So...the same as us, but with some perks thrown in.
I'm going to just assume you're a spin doctor, as otherwise i'd have to be rude and assume you are an idiot.
a) Snowden did not board the plane to cuba
b) anyone who considers cuba since the soviet union fell apart a threat to america is a moron.
c) nothing snowden could have known about troop positions or other such actions or involvement would have been left the same from shortly after the second he leaked his name. This is assuming he even had such knowledge, given his position his access would have been fairly general and non-specific as far as military matters are concerned.
Did you watch Snowden's interview? He said he had access to information detailing missions and the identities as well.
Then he leaked a Top Secret G8 spy operation. If he didn't have access then how did we learn about that?
on one hand, 'snitches get stiches'.
otoh, if an entity that keeps claiming to have the high moral ground was caught being VERY naughty and you 'tell on them', is that, in itself, wrong?
quite a lot of us believe that there should be limits as to what our spying agencies can do. many of us believe the US has crossed a line and needs to be reeled back in.
if someone had committed murder and you knew about it, would you just sit on that info?
how is this any different? he saw crimes committed and told about it. I think he's a hero!
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
I think the countries being spied upon would argue your point.
Also, the leak on the G8 spying was a side affect. What he was actually leaking was their methods, used in the US and the UK to do illegal spying, and in those documents they use the G8 as an example. Also, the revelation that they are spying on the G8 is one of the most important pieces of information released... their excuse this entire time has been that they are defending against terrorism. But clearly the G8 operation was an attempt to gain economic advantage.
I'm well aware of my history, and what I see is that you've equated two different types of cases that are really quite different.
In the sorts of cases you're citing, the injustices they were facing were aimed at segments of society that had been ignored, pushed aside, or otherwise disdained. What their cause needed was public awareness of the crimes being perpetrated, and the best means for doing so was by putting a face on the matter and by making the point that a non-criminal was being treated as one. By allowing themselves to become victims of the injustice, they were able to give a face to the victims, show the world what the injustices looked like in action, prove that innocent men were being treated as criminals, and rally support to enact change.
Not so in this case, since we need only look in the mirror to see the face of a victim of the crimes that Snowden is bringing to light. We all know full well that we're not all criminals, and yet the injustice is being perpetrated against us. Whether Snowden is a criminal or not is immaterial, since the only question we need to be asking is, "are we all criminals?" Were Snowdown to go to jail at this point, the injustices he'd be facing would be entirely separate from the ones he is fighting against now, and as such, they wouldn't serve any purpose or hold any meaning. It wouldn't make him a martyr or give a face to the victims. It would just make him a victim of a different set of crimes.
Why was there a leak of the G8 spying? That wasn't an illegal operation. Tell me why Snowden leaked that.
Perhaps because "Legal" and "Right" are not always the same thing?
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Don't look at the top of the iceberg. He wasn't so special in his organization, and his organization wasn't so special neither. That he knew/had access means that a lot of people had (and keep having) the same access. Before worrying about what he did, think what the others could be doing right now.