Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: Exploiting 'Engineering And ...' On a Resume?
An anonymous reader writes "In my younger years, I was briefly employed as an Electrical Engineer. Since 9/11 I have been flying combat missions for the military. Since I now have just a little over a year before becoming a civilian again, I was wondering if any Slashdotters had any applicable advice/anecdotes. How does one effectively combine engineering/development with another professional skill-set? (Being a jet pilot in this example.) For those of you who do hiring, what is the best way to sell this type of background?"
go work for drone manufacturer
Well those two careers go somewhat better than you might think.
As an engineer, you had to follow directions, know your math and be precise.
To plan a mission, you had to follow directions, know your math and how to be very, very precise.
I would stress these points of similarity in any resume.
The NSA might have one open position in Hawaii for people with good security clearance.
You decide what job you want and then use your education and experience to support that. If you want to be an aviation engineer, it should be a no-brainer. I don't think you can use time in the cockpit to help justify medical device engineering...
Just about any military contractor / aerospace company will be interested in hiring you. It won't be hard to find a job. The only tricky part is finding a job you will like.
Based on my experience (YMMV), corporations love consistency. Their recruiters are uncomfortable with varied background, because they don't think outside the box and don't understand that a person can do more than just the same thing for the entirety of their lives.
My advice: aim for startups. They're looking for skills rather than a consistent, tidy work background.
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
Sorry I don't have any advice for you but just wanted to tell you that.
Understand that, up front, you are going to have some doors closed to you simply because your job experience is over a decade old. It may not seem fair, but it's reality. Having said that, your military experience may very well open doors for you that other civilians wouldn't have a chance at, especially with stuff in the defense industry. I'd just state your experience and education, and let your resume speak for itself. Electrical Engineering doesn't seem like one of those fields that's constantly changing every few years, like IT, so your skill set should still be fairly relevant.
First of all make sure you apply to the big defense contractors. Lockheed Martin especially likes to hire ex-military. Given that you were a jet pilot, I mean that's pretty damn impressive. Emphasize how you can work with complicated systems. Flying a jet isn't easy. Were you a leader in the military? Emphasize leadership skills. I assume flying combat missions takes communication skills too. Emphasize those.
In this case the obvious answer is to search for engineering jobs that relate to your piloting and/or military experience. Aeronautical defense firms would love you, especially if you have a security clearance. The fact that you are knowledgeable in the product domain is a huge advantage.
"As an Engineer I develop awesome solutions...then I make them fly!!"
Engineering and....
Engineering and....
Engineering and.... smoking the reefer!
THL phish sticks
I work at BAE - if you're looking in the Boston area, this could be just the place for you.
We work on stuff for UAVs, planning systems, EW, etc.
If you're interested, get me a resume and I can float it around. We're not doing a lot of hiring right now, but we have a bunch of ex-military folks who are real happy here.
No joke - let me know.
There may not be a connection until you explicitly do something that combines your interests.
In your case, for example, you might go and experiment with RC-controlled airplanes or model rocketry. Or if your EE skills run more to programming, write a small flight simulator.
Particularly if you have a security clearance. This is the path I took, and after a few years in an engineering job at a defense company, you can leverage that into engineering jobs outside of defense if you so choose. Your having been a pilot may be advantageous for aerospace companies. I was in the infantry myself, I couldn't find any way combine the skillsets, but generally speaking I think defense companies are more open to prior service military types, given their customer base.
The point of the resume is to show how you are qualified for the job you are applying for. If you apply for several similar jobs, you might submit similar versions of the resume, of course.
Therefore, how you should present X on your resume depends entirely on what job you're seeking. Since you gave no clue what job you're trying to qualify yourself for, there's no way to answer.
For example, if you were applying for a job where they are looking for someone who is obsessive about getting every detail exactly precise 100% of the time, such as "nuclear powerplant _____", your resume would indicate that you operated a $30 million plane precisely, delivering your payload with pinpoint precision, where the consequences of error were literally life and death. You'd point to similar aspects of your engineering work - blah blah 6 nanometers blah.
If you're going for a position where the big deal is leadership and chain of command, tat would be a completely different presentation of your experience.
Test pilot / avionics tester / ELINT/airborne countermeasures type?
Why don't you do private charter or stuff like that? I don't know if that's what you want to do or if military pilot translates into something else - Just thinking. Thanks.
If you're going into the aeronautics industry, you should be able to easily sell the fact that you have a pilot's understanding of airplanes.
If you're applying somewhere where your piloting experience wouldn't be relevant at all, then don't mention it other than in your employment history.
Make sure you include "Destructive testing of competitors' products" as part of your skillset.
Everything is better with chainsaws.
Any Federal contractor, and most Federal agencies, will hire you damn near sight unseen for your "management" skills and security clearance. The Whorehouse (federal contractors) pay better than the government, but once hired by the government you'll have a job until you quit, retire or die.
It is almost mandatory that you live in Northern Virginia, Mary-Land or the District. I did the contractor route until I was completely sickened by this part of the nation. It is an absolute horror.
If this mutt: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57591030/probe-irs-contractor-won-up-to-$500-million-in-questionable-bids/
can claim to be a disabled vet because he hurt his ankle in high school at a prep school then the sky is definitely the limit for you.
Seriously though as others have stated your resume itself isn't nearly as important as who you send it to. You have a rare combination of skills (engineering, military, jet aircraft etc) and there are small set of companies that would give you a serious look regardless. It doesn't have to be all drones and DoD type companies, NASA and commercial engineering firms would be as well.
You should be smooshing up to defence contractors.
I have worked at jeppesen and they hire pilots every so often. Sadly, most of them are pretty worthless when it comes to the development cycle (yet, they think that Marketing degree combined with 10 years flying puddle jumpers make them suitable for dev). With your degree in EE, you obviously have a decent background.
BTW, at this time, skip any work on human rated aircraft, save commercial. If you are going to work in aviation, then focus on drones, and services. There is little doubt that the feds are going to have to cut back in various areas. And that means that they will cut back on everything except for drones and the 2017 bomber. You MIGHT want to throw your lot in with something like the X-48. That is perfect for many things, such as the 2017 bomber, but also fire fighting, tankers, etc. And firefighting is going to be important with all of this beetle killed pine in the west.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
They love ex-military. Heck they might give you 500mil$ of taxpayer money and make you a fortune-500 in no time /trollmode off
Or was that a kill set?
Say you're from China and you'll work for half price. Instant hire.
American "employers" get sexual pleasure from denying jobs to Americans.
"jet pilot" is today's modern Alpha male.
/. used to be "news for nerds " /. indicates he's an all too obvious liar.
therefore for this guy to be even aware of the existence of
I have an IT background in programming and another degree in web design and graphics. I have a huge background in computer repair as well. But besides all those three, I usually mention on the resume that I've been shooting video for my church and a local concert venue for over a decade so I know video systems inside and out. I also have done VHC to DVD conversions. Then I also mention I know electrical system pretty well and DMX light control programming and sound systems since my dad is a mobile DJ and I've been to over 500 dances and weddings. Then I mention I used to work at a hospital and have over 40 HIPPA and biohazard certifications. Then I mention that I know custom PC building inside and out too. I've also done wireless reception testing and mapping.
If you haven't noticed the pattern yet, every one of those could save a company the money of hiring an outside contractor. I can program their software then get up and film and edit company videos for the website while erasing computers to HIPPA standards while picking out the proper catering company and table layout for an employee Christmas party. So it's all about usefulness to the company. Unfortunately, most companies don't run aircraft combat missions, lol.
With that sort of background you're probably going to have a big bag of experience to draw from, and selectively emphasize on a resume. You're probably going to want to think about where you want to take your career, what industry, what general type of job, and highlight those aspects of your experience. For example, trying to move into civil aviation to continue as a pilot would mean stressing the actual aviation aspects of the job - aircraft qualifications, flight planning, flight time, instrument qualifications, etc. If you wanted to move back towards engineering, you've probably conducted various types of technical and safety inspections, perhaps some logistics work, maybe even preformed troubleshooting that could be emphasized. If you've ever made any recommendations for equipment modification that were accepted, that would be gravy. You've probably had various forms of ongoing technical education yourself, or acting as in instructor. Another track might be management. I'm sure you can see where this is going. Rendering things in terms that civilians understand will also be helpful. I recall seeing this book out there before. Not sure if it would be helpful or not to you. I would expect that your service's transition program has similar resources available.
If you haven't had your hand involved in the actual technical aspects of electrical engineering for 12 years or so... that's a long time. If you think you might want to go that way you might want to see about getting ahold of some free vendor tools and play around to see if that still interests you. Some of the FPGA manufacturers have made them available over time.
Some industries may value the combination of your experience more than others. Aerospace, for example.
Once you have a direction, and maybe a backup direction / plan, you will probably want to start making contacts well before your exit date. You might also want to do what you can to get some money saved up as a cushion. Keep in mind the big internet recruiting sites appropriate for the industry you want to pursue, such as Monster and Dice.
As I noted, just my thoughts. Nothing authoritative here. Good luck to you, and thanks for answering the call.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Those kite flying Afghanis been putting up much of a fight?
Haha, just jokes bro. I know they don't have any kites.
Become an astronaut!
Lie through your teeth or the only job you'll land will be crap and won't match your skill set. Besides, it seems to work well for CEOs...
Yes, Anonymous Coward is an appropriate name for you. Someone who signed up for the military following 9/11 certainly does not need to justify their actions.
Was the Iraq war a "good war?" No, not in my opinion. But that war wasn't started by the military. It was started by the unprosecuted war criminals who were almost voted into positions of power, men like George W "Decider" Bush, Dick "Dick" Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld.
Boeing, Honeywell, Raytheon, etc. would all be interested in you.
What is the reason he should trust you?
and now you want somebody to hire you? But seriously, thanks for your service!
Since you're a combat pilot, you have something other engineer doesn't have - that's security clearance - that alone worth $100K
So apply at those big defense firms
Prove to me you've stayed up on engineering and that you're better than the other applicants. I'm not hiring a fighter pilot. I'm hiring an engineer. To put it another way, what if I was hiring a fighter pilot and you told me you were a pilot for a while and went off to be an engineer for the last decade. Should your engineering background be a core part of me choosing you as a fighter pilot over other guys who have been flying continually for the last five years? Nope. Neither should you expect special treatment in the hiring process because of your military service. Businesses hire proven skill sets. Show that you have the proven skill set for the job. Forget about your time in the cockpit until some HR dweeb asks you how well you can handle stress. Then say, "I fought for my life at Mach 1.5 in a combat zone".
north american trained engineer is minimized in this employment market.
What counts is you are a visible minority -- if not too bad. This is what
is occuring in Canada. If you are a white male educated as an engineer in
Canada -- you will not be hired as an engineer. There are government
programs in place to hire "visible minority" engineers non-citizen, but
seeking employment in Canada and provide a 50% wage subsidy.
Have worked for companies that put engineers trained in "community
colleges" in india & china on the same level as graduates from an ivy
league university in canada or the usa. wtf? When I first went to university
part of the entrance requirement for engineering at my alma mater was
a BA degree from India and/or China -- what changed? I have worked with
such individuals and have seen that they lack basic engineering
knowledge.
As a TA I also saw foreign students cheat thru engineering programs
in Canada with no repurcussions.
We should be seeing soon aircraft falling from the skys, bridges collapsing,
building colappsing, and products failing en masse.
an observation
I'd suggest hunting down Lockheed, Boeing, or L-3 Communications (or another DoD contractor) and start working with them as a Subject Material Expert in whatever you did in your career. You get a very decent salary, don't really have to do much, and generally you can work with multiple companies at a time if you set yourself up as an independent contractor. Effectively, you can do what you like and what you know, and get paid for it.
I would think that a controls engineer would have quite a bit in common with a pilot; converting measurement units, telemetry, and you're almost guaranteed to need to know something about proportional-integral-derivatives (or PLC PID instructions, look them up). I'd think an engineer who was a pilot would be an attractive canidate to an employer.
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
I'd say that you should look for work at a military contractor (or work as a civilian for the military itself) where they will value your military and flight experience (and security clearances). If I interviewed you for an engineering position at my civilian company, your military/flight experience would mean little aside from some interesting (for me) chitchat while waiting for the elevator, and you'd lose some points because you've been out of EE for a decade. It's no different than if you spent 10 years as a commercial pilot or even truck driver, you've been out of the field for a decade, so unless your military or flight experience was a plus for the position, I'd probably go with the guy that's been doing engineering work for the past 10 years.
Go to work for a Booze Allen or a Grant Thornton or another big consulting firm that does contracting for the military. Brush up on your EE skills, take the FE exam, and later become a PE.
I presume you are posting for affirmation because the answer is blatantly obvious. EE and military background is the best complimentary experiences you could have. You don't have to market it, let it speak for itself. Your experience is well sought after.
As others have suggested, looking for a defense contractor is an obvious start. Continue to add to your EE background and your options will grow exponentially.
You are in a position that no other civilian has the opportunity to be in. You could even find yourself working at NASA in a few years time if you applied yourself.
Best of luck, and thank you for your service. You won't have any trouble landing a job.
As a rule the only "career advice" I ever give is "Know thyself"
with that said - I've heard a lot of business owners say they like to "hire for attitude and train for skills." Military service is going to be a plus for most companies BUT What employers really care about is that you will help their company succeed - the parts to emphasize from your military service are that you will show up, work hard, and have a good attitude (but I wouldn't say "I've learned to embrace the suck." if they ask you what you learned from serving in the military ... )
from the purely practical side: you will get extra "points" if you want to work for the federal government; having an active security clearance is required for a lot (most) defense contractor type jobs.
You have an opportunity to chase your "dream job" - so figure out your ideal job (be specific). In the next year you should get good contact information for people who will say nice things about you and make sure they know you are going to use them as a reference. Let EVERYBODY know what type of job you are looking for and where you want to live - you might be surprised by someone who has a relative/friend looking to hire someone in your field, you might want to have someone help you with a résumé (at the least get a book) ...
... and "follow your bliss" (but first Gnothi seauton)
It ain't what they call you. It's what you answer to. http://mylyceum.us/
...after you get that job, come back here and tell us how wonderful it is so we can slit our wrists.
Grab a friend who knows you well (and who doesn't run you down just for grins.) Have some food, and a couple of beers (or split a bottle of wine) and meanwhile brainstorm and jot down all the possibly applicable experience you can think of. Also, and maybe more important, talk about the things that you are really good at - not just skillswise, but what kind of person you are and what you excell at. And then think of stories that really illustrate each of those.
Have fun. Be silly. No one should try to do this stage of resume writing alone, generally speaking we're all far too trained to discount our skills and put ourself down. Aim for ten pages or so of semi-coherent scrawl. Don't try to edit, editing is easy, and it's for later. Getting enough material down in the first place is what this is about.
And then, a few days later, come back and prune. This isn't time to prune super heavily - what you're looking to create is a superset resume - more than you'd sent out for any one job, but containing most of what you'd send out for anything. Keep in mind that a resume isn't just about skills, it should be about what kind of person you are and what you're like to work with. There are a lot of formats out there, but don't be enslaved to them - while it should be tight and professional, a resume isn't a form application but a creative document that should present you in the best light. (It should go without say that lying is incredibly stupid.) I do strongly recommend looking at it in terms of narrative - whatever you want people to know about you, include a (briefly worded) story that demonstrates it.
Not only does this make resumes more informative, it makes them a heck of a lot less boring. (When I was doing hiring, reading resumes was often tortuous, because they didn't tell me most of the things that were most important, beyond some basic skills lists that weren't that reliable.) Make a resume that represents you well - because you want the manager you absolutely would hate to work for to look at it and say "I don't want this guy" just as much as you want the right folks to recognize you. Truth in advertising is a good thing.
I concur with what a lot of people are saying. I'd look at Boeing if I were you (a friend designs flight simulators for their military aircraft - I suspect you'd do well in that kind of environment). (For that matter, my former father in law - also a Boeing engineer*flew planes for the airforce for many years and eventually ended up at Boeing. I almost managed to get him over to Microsoft when I was there, on Flight Simulator.)
I'd also do what you can in the intervening time to brush up on skills that are going to support the direction you want to go in from here. Start reading up on security. Pick up a new language. Buy yourself a bunch of toys off sparkfun. What people are saying about your skills being out of date is possibly a problem... if they are, in fact, out of date. So make sure they aren't. It sounds like you have a lot going for you, especially with a little polishing and fine tuning.
* Hey, I grew up in Seattle, what can I say?
Tell them you have experience with BOTH decades-old software AND murdering children. That goes right down their alley.
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
I've done a bit of hiring on th e side for some of my companies. Ex-military is good for a whole hosts of reasons (thank for your service; courage; discipline; commitment, top gun..). That's your "in" right there, no need for more.
What you need on top of that is: :-p)
- don't be a nut job. Quite a few ex-military I've come across had severe PTSD. Make sure you project "normality", with a dollop of humor and lay-backedness (not aloofness though: our business is not war, but it *is* important, too). Make sure you have a life goal and non-work projects to discuss (that'd be: kids
- be up-to-date on your tech skills. While the army has good rep for giving organizational and personal skills, it also has a mild rep for being backwards and procedural
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
I worked taking care of the electronics and computers necessary to determine target location and preset, arm and launch the appropriate weapon at same. Not exactly the skill set the private sector looks at. I spent the last 6 months of my career as a windows admin (long enough not to look for an admin job). It took me a month, but I found work maximizing what others have said. Yes sir, I know you don't have torpedoes, but you have software that performs in a manner that is other than expected. I spent the last 23 years finding and fixing issues, I can do the same for you.
Just tell them you flew jets in the military.
ISince 9/11 I have been flying combat missions for the military. Since I now have just a little over a year before becoming a civilian again, I was wondering if any Slashdotters had any applicable advice/anecdotes. How does one effectively combine engineering/development with another professional skill-set? (Being a jet pilot in this example.)
Assuming you are a member of the US military, consider taking a civil service job with the federal government. You would be credited for your military time and your experience. The FAA probably could use you, with all the Nextgen development they are doing - check the job postings at usajobs.gov
My friend built a better programmed social network before anyone had heard of Facebook. It had more features, done better. That friend got around 5-20 people to sign up. Guess who won, my friend, or Zuckerberg? A social network is an extreme example of what's generally true - good technicians are one of the least important things for building a huge business. Zuck is a great business person and leader. (I don't personally use Facebook, FYI).
Has McDonald's sold a hundred billion burgers because Ray Kroc was an amazing cook? He was an amazing entrepreneur. McDonald's isn't even in the food business. It's in the _real_estate_ business. They make most of their money leasing buildings to their franchisees. Similarly, Facebook isn't in the programming business.
Forget buzz words. Forget titles. Even experience and acquaintances only count for so much. What can you DO? What DO you do? If it's valuable, someone will pay you for it.
In the arena of Architectural Engineering, ex-military types are generally sought after for Commissioning work. You need to be competent "enough" on the engineering side, but the focus is on process and troubleshooting. We tend not to hire ex military folks for engineering design roles based on a bias that their creativity has been stifled. (On a case-by case basis of course.)
But, pay would be better working as an airline pilot if you have your hours. You really need to be exceptional to hit $135k as a CxA.
As someone who hires from time to time, I am always impressed when people show they can adjust to different situations and learn quickly. I think in the interview you should emphasis the variety of challenges you faced. I think there is often a fear that a military person may be rigid. The concern is that the candidate will be unbending or may follow orders without thinking for themselves. Show that you are able to recognize how different environment require different approaches. Tell how quickly you were able to succeed in situation which were outside your previous experience.
As a control systems engineer.
Since you have a college degree, I assume you are an officer. So you have leadership experience. That is worth a lot. I would look at that resume and be thinking more about hiring someone who will be a good manager some day, even if they are a little rusty on design skills right now. Which is not to say I would put you straight into management, or give you a pass on sloppy design work, but I'd give you a chance to come up to speed again.
In my former life as a hiring manager, I can look at someone with a successful military career, *especially* a career in a complex rating such as "combat pilot" and know there is a huge list of things I don't have to teach you. Like showing up on time. Like clearly understanding your deliverables. Like fulfilling your role in the team and working with a team toward a complex goal.
So if you can refresh your skills, even with a hobby project, do it and push it to github. That gives you something technical to talk about that is fresh. Then sell what you've got, because you've got something that most new hires don't, and that is a demonstratable track record of delivering complicated goals in a high pressure and disciplined environment. Oh... and you were entrusted with the operation of multiple millions of dollars worth of delicate capital equipment.
I'll tell you what, the best boss I ever had was an ex Israeli commando officer. Why? 1. There was never, ever, any doubt whatsoever what he wanted me to accomplish. 2. When he asked what I needed to get the job done, he listened and either got it or adjusted plans accordingly. When you think about it, that makes total sense, you don't send commandos in with a fuzzy idea of what to do and insufficient equipment and support, because the alternative is writing a lot of unpleasant letters to parents. I'm guessing you have some of that in you, and that will go far. If I was interviewing you today, I'd be asking questions to probe for *that*, and be less interested if you can recite the latest data sheets from memory.
For those of you who do hiring, what is the best way to sell this type of background?
MANAGER: How are the skills you acquired during your term of service in the military relevant to this position?
Or, find an airline that's hiring.
Like lots other posters, I think something with the government or defense contractors will probably be the easiest.
Consider looking at the AFRL Information Directorate in Rome, NY or their contractors. They do lots of interesting EE things where Air Force experience is a major benefit.
Most of us still live in our Mother's basement.
Some of us have actually gotten laid. While the rest do it playing a stimulator game.
Kidding aside, try the government, in particular, the NSA. Or with the clearance you already had, I'd be surprised you if couldn't get a gig with a company doing military work.
For those of you who do hiring, what is the best way to sell this type of background?
As one who is hiring, I would rather not people try to "sell" me anything. I need to deal with the facts (I worked here and did this, I worked there and did that) and form my own judgments. At least to me, "sell" means "spin," means highlight the positives, means hide the negatives, etc. As someone who'll have to deal with you, day in day out, I would rather know everything up front. In other words, you're dumb for asking employers for advice on how to sweet-talk us.
Even so, I will say this in hopes that it really will help. I hire for raw materials, not expertise. That works for my job (web programming). It may not work for others (nuclear reactor maintenance). In other words, I look for good designers, people who share my sense of taste, people who get that less is more, etc. If they know Perl but not JavaScript, that's nothing to me. It would take two weeks for someone really good in Perl to become workable in JavaScript. In a year they will be better than the guy who has programmed in JavaScript for three years who has no basic sense of design.
I work for a flight simulation company as a EE. We are always looking for engineers who understand aircraft. I am having trouble with a new slip ball design right now and I just finished up a TACAN head. Knowledge of aircraft system is priceless.
Besides Boeing, LMCO, etc., there are independent avionics companies who would love you. UI stuff needs to be done by you!
And there's test piloting.
of responses that appear prejudiced against hiring job candidates with military experience. My experience in hiring has been that military experience correlates with somewhat elevated management, planning, and resource location (aka find the [equipment, $, people to get the thing done] skills.
If the negative posters are in fact representative of what you'll face in today's entrepreneurial environment, it may be that you'd do better, at least initially, in a company environment that doesn't have an anti-military prejudice. Think LockMart, etc. The big company problems are there, of course, but you can learn a lot, make good money, and go do your own thing later.
Best of luck to you.
Just put on your resume you're able to kill civilians because your boss told you too, surely if you did that doing anything else a boss tells you would be a cakewalk..
What is the reason he should trust you?
Ask any of the vets who came back from Iraq or Afghanistan
and committed suicide, they will explain.
Of course those vets cannot explain it. Let's just say that
the word "horror" comes to life when you go to war and
kill people, not matter how much you have been told by the swine
you want to use you that those people need to be killed.
EE degree and trained as a pilot. Obviously trainable, check.
Able to work as part of a team, check.
Able to work under pressure, check.
Communications skills, roger that.
Able to supervise and mentor others, check.
Can be trusted to properly operate expensive hardware and software, check.
Shows initiative while following direction and procedures, check.
Attention to detail, check. Pilots who are not die.
When can you start?
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
They were not voted in either. Brother Jeb's "friends" helped with that; and it's public record.
You would be surprised at how many pilots are closet nerds.
Just to get the chance we had to have excellent grades as undergraduates. Then we had to beat out a hundred other applicants at at dozen different tests measuring our ability to do anything from memorize long strings of numbers to follow a complex wiring diagram. Then we had to commit to a year of pilot training where we woke up early every morning and studied late into every night, and learned how to execute complex procedures while hurdling through space at high speed. Once we got our wings, in addition to annual academic testing we all were required to get graduate degrees as a condition of promotion/continued employment.
Dumb jocks don't make it very far. Though some that do make it like to pretend to be dumb jocks for reasons that I never understood.
Look at some of the big consulting companies that work with the military. MITRE, CACI, Booz Allen, CSC, GE, Lockheed Martin, etc., like to hire ex-military. Here is a good list:
http://www.businessinsider.com/top-25-us-defense-companies-2012-2?op=1
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
If you have a background like this and don't like the idea of working as a contractor, you may want to work in the civil service. The military employs many civilian engineers with uniformed experience in everything from testing to program management. Take a look at the various labs and research organizations and get in touch with one near where you'd like to end up.
The government needs good people.
Or directly supported/helped those that do the killing. As such I'm NOT hiring you, no matter what you put on your resume.
Regarding your last question: I recently went to quite a lot of interviews ( and just landed a great new job, so it was worth all the hassle and bullshit ). I was formerly in a ( non-US ) Navy, and I can tell you from recent experience: be low-key about it . Don't rub it away, but ... your military background is not, most probably, what a company is going to hire you for. Insisting upon it is the worst option, as you will be looked ( and frowned ) upon as one who lives in the past. As soon as you are hired and start working, you'll see: the importance of military background fades to near-nothingness, as you and your new colleagues will have enough problems to deal with on a day-to-day basis. Godspeed !
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
As someone who makes hiring and firing decisions, I have never seen a better qualification than someone having been a fighter pilot. Several of my friends are former pilots for the Navy who have done well in various entrepreneurial pursuits involving technology. I would hire them immediately if they ever needed a job.
The basic qualities I pick up on, and that seem to be the most appealing as an employer, are the level of preparation that goes into being a pilot and the practical math behind operating an aircraft. In my business, we need to have a lot of planned out from the beginning for things to go well. It's clear to me that structure and process, and the ability to compensate effectively when something does go off track, are in a pilot's DNA.
Not sure what jobs you have been applying for, or why this is not coming across with other employers, but feel free to reach out to me via PM if you want to discuss directly.
Let me thank you for working on FlightSimulator, it has created tremendous amount of joy over the past decade for me!
So this means you have more experience as a pilot than as an Engineer? How many years experience as an Engineer do you have?
There's a world of difference between someone with 10 years experience and then go and do something else and come back, and someone who's got 1-3 years. With 10 years, you've worked on more than one project, most likely, seen some cradle to grave life cycle, etc. You've also interacted with people outside your specialty.
Hiring drones just can't seem to comprehend anyone that doesn't do exactly what their degree is, for life. Do anything outside of it and they get all freaked out. Best thing to do is to rip out all irrelevant experience from your resume. Despite your extra experience making you a better employee, it'll actually be held against you on the initial round if you let anyone know. Once you get kicked past HR and up to the people that actually need you, it gets better. They'll wonder about employment gaps and they're much more likely to understand...
Ah, grammar fail on my part!
I was at Microsoft, we were trying to get him over on to Flight Sim, but that was not where I was ;-) (I mostly worked on high capacity internet servers and distributed systems.)
or whatever your service calls it, in the Marine Corps, it is SEPs and TAPs. Transition Assistance Program and I forget what SEPs is called. But it is a really great program geared towards us(I am on terminal at the moment). It helps you translate your resume from platoons and battalions and squadrons to HR speak.
List number of kills.
Sorry, but every pilot that I've met didn't want a desk job. He would do almost anything to remain a pilot.
OTOH, if you were an RPV handler, that is different. Apply to gaming shops, offer your expertise.
Plenty of companies out there with products related to pilots are extremely interested in engineers with real experience from the field, so to speak.
I work for a defense contractor and we HIGHLY value people like you who have operational field experience PLUS the engineering educational background. It helps ground our systems designs and concepts in reality, helps us understand what the warfighter really needs, and even more importantly, provides insight into how to maneuver through the bureaucracy of the military.
So, depending upon what you want to do, I'd suggest checking out companies like Lockheed, Boeing, Raytheon, etc.
Jeezus man, you're a military pilot (or at least flight crew), play to your strengths ... disciplined, smart, good under pressure, hard worker, probably work well in a teams, okay with responsibility, big brass ones.
Highlight the entirely useful skillsets and training you got out of that, because you can use those pretty much anywhere. The military doesn't as general rule let idiots and lazy people fly combat missions (at least I hope not).
I should think you could work for any number of places ... either in the aviation industry, or technology in general. Because if you still have solid tech skills plus all of requisite leadership training most tech people don't have, you probably have a leg up.
Fuck, failing that, take a few weeks off and hit the bars and just say "hey baby, I'm a pilot" -- but maybe you're already bored with that. ;-)
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Don't bother. Market yourself as a mid-tier manager with the appropriate skills and look for jobs with technology companies. If you're still interested in supporting the war machine, look for jobs with defense contractors.
As someone who has been flying for 12 years, you're likely a Major or maybe a Lt Colonel, yes? The skills you've gained as a manager are far more relevant to prospective employers than your (likely outdated) electrical engineering background.
If you want technical work be prepared to start from the bottom and have everyone around you be much younger than you are or move into technical management and stress to your prospective companies that you're looking for positions that combine technical work with program/personnel management.
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
I would think that the vetting process used in recruiting jet pilots will assist your efforts to find work, as it means
potential employee's can use this for reference without spending the money in performing the tests and vetting required.
Obviously you are smart, sane, can operate under pressure, can follow directions, can communicate effectively, hold an attention to detail,
shown commitment to your role. If you don't have these faculties, you would have been vetted.
Perhaps I would elaborate on the vetting procedure used in recruiting pilots, however I would let the accolade speak for itself.
On this topic, I would apply for internship at consultancy firms (who seem to purely hire on prestige) and see how it goes.
This is great resume writing advice! Thanks for sharing that.
Also, don't forget the clearance! Even when you're not trying for a job the requires it, having a clearance denotes a certain level of reliability and responsibility that employers want to see and if they're looking toward work where clearances might be needed, it can give you/them an edge, which they'll like.
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
There is another war brewing.
The war against the NWO (New World Order).
This is the real cause of the wars you have been fighting. But in short, the economy is collapsing, and in order to "fix" it, they are attempting to change the free world into a socialist form of government. Infringing on constitutional rights, expanding police state powers, tightening control over communications, (They already control mainstream media, and now they tighten control of the Internet).
Drones are being used more and more, against Americans on American soil, denying them of their right to due process of law.
And to quote Mr. Kim Dotcom; "The war for the internet has begun".
I suggest finding a way to apply your skills in protecting our Constitution from our own government.
Assuming you still want to fly, and fly equipment that most of us can't afford, why not be a corporate pilot? You may not get rich at it but the pay is pretty good, and in addition someone else is paying for your flying fix too! Of course you could go into engineering instead and buy your own plane, but as you probably already know on most of us IT guys' pay you won't be affording a jet-a blowtorch.
I did something similar -- flew tactical jets for 10 years then went into Engineering (electrical/computer). My first bit of advice is:
Stay in the military and complete 20 years of service. Military salaries for mid-grade officers and above are competitive with engineering salaries once the untaxed benefits are figured in. If you really want to get over towards engineering, work your way over to the Systems Commands (Naval Air Systems Command for USN, USAF has something similar). You will be doing an engineering job there, systems and engineering management, but that's what mid-career engineering mostly is anyway. If you are like me, you will miss the military, especially the aircraft, stay in the cockpit as long as you can; it will feel strange looking back in as a civilian especially if you end up in a defense company. I was very happy to get back into the military cockpit for a couple of years on a recall to active duty after seven years out. Unless you just have to get out for some reason, the advantages of staying in for 20 years are compelling, and starting something new in your early 40's isn't that much different from doing it in your mid-30s. As far as getting going again when you get out -- I don't know if its feasible for you but I went straight into grad school for a Master's degree. Once in the civilian world, I found that my jet fighter experience was an interesting novelty but it didn't really count for a whole lot, even in the defense companies. Military experience in the Systems Commands would be better. Or just go fly for the airlines.
Seriously, though, Clearance + EE is quite valuable. If you're worried about seeming "rusty" on the engineering side, get a MSEE from some university... a lot of very good universities have distance programs where you might be able to get started early.
-- Erich
Slashdot reader since 1997
Since you have been flying combat missions, I assume you are an officer. In which case, you should be aiming for management, IMHO. Engineering management, if you will. In this way you can combine both the skills you have developed in the military with your engineering background.
Even in big dumb mechanical and/or civil engineering, 10-12 years is a long time and I would not rely on your previous experience as an engineer will hold much weight.
If you really want to get back into for-reals engineering, go back to school. This will refresh and sharpen your skills.
-
... salaried murderer.
Find a job you want. Work out which skills you have that would help you in that job and make you a better candidate than the competition. Write up those skills.
The fact that you have diverse skillsets is a strength, but you still write your resume the same way as someone with a linear job progression. Highlight the skills, activities and experiences that will add value to your potential employer.
Focus on the skills that are required in those environments: leadership, attention to detail, dedication to duty, commitment, etc.
Also, most private organizations are interested in one of two things: how can you make them money; or how can you save them money?
Where possible, put hard numbers into your resume (e.g., "Flew XXX missions with 100% success rate one first runs saving the US military XXXX millions of dollars," or "Managed and maintained 4.7 million USD asset inventory," etc."