You Will Get DirectX 11.2 Only With Windows 8.1

SmartAboutThings writes "Microsoft has just announced the next version of DirectX, 11.2, on its website. But the real 'problem' is that it is going to be exclusive to Windows 8.1 and next generation consoles — Xbox One and Play Station 4. This is not news, as DirectX 11.1 was exclusive to Windows 7 & 8. But is this going to help Microsoft convince people to ugprade or will make them angry?"

Comments

Mehh

[Anonymous Coward]

Increment updates do not justify an upgrade...especially to a downgrade such as win8

Re: Mehh

[lennier1]

The start menu is still broken by default, but now it comes with a useless button. Definitely an upgrade!

Re: Mehh

[Sponge Bath]

The start button functionality has been streamlined to meet customer demands. Windows 8.1 will inspire a new generation to greatness.

Re: Mehh

[Lord Byron II]

is [DirectX 11.2] going to help Microsoft convince people to ugprade or will make them angry?

That's my secret... I'm always angry.

Re: Mehh

[SuricouRaven]

"Is that why so many people don't like it?"

People don't like change. Change means updating software and retraining users. For people to accept change, they must see some form of benefit to themselves to justify the difficulties. Windows 8 looks a lot like change for the sake of change - or, for the more cynical, change for the sake of furthering Microsoft's long term business ambitions in the mobile and service areas. Either way, it's a change in interface without apparent benefit.

We've been through this before with Office and the Ribbon - and to this day, even though almost everyone is now used to the ribbon, it's really hard to find something it makes easier than the old drop-down menu system did.

Re: Mehh

[peragrin]

Sorry I have to modify this slightly.

For Most people to accept change, they must see some form of benefit to themselves to justify the difficulties. However there will always be those who refuse to accept the change and fight it just because they really can't accept change.

We did an ERP software shift at work. the move itself hasn't been bad. while it isn't perfect, there is a single problem I can't seem to get beyond with one user. She refuses to look at a single column, when the entering information. It clearly shows a major error in Units of Measure. All she has to do is change the Unit of Measure and everything will line back up. But nope. she can't get into that habit. I have to go back in and fix it afterwards. This same person has allergies. She refuses to adjust her allergy meds even though they clearly don't work anymore.

Some people will never accept change.

Re: Mehh

[nabsltd]

Actually, although the ribbon was frustrating at first, the ability to apply 3-4 styles at once WYSIWYG is a great benefit.

This isn't a function of the ribbon, but rather new interaction between the control and the document.

There is no reason the same functionality could not be used with conventional toolbars or floating style windows.

Re: Mehh

[Midnight Thunder]

There are cross platform solutions such as OpenGL and OpenAL. If games developers focused on them, then I don't care about the state of DirectX. The fact we see games being released on Steam that can do cross platform, shows there are alternatives to MS API lock-in.

Re: Mehh

[ozmanjusri]

You will soon though.

Or maybe not you, but most people who just want to get on with using their computers instead of tinkering with them.

Android invades the desktop

Summary: Computer makers are suddenly obsessed with putting a smartphone operating system on PCs. Here’s why it may not be such a crazy idea.
John Morris

Microsoft has spent a lot of time and effort trying to get Windows onto smartphones and tablets--so far without a whole lot to show for it. Now several PC companies are trying the opposite approach, taking the Android operating system and porting it to PCs.

http://www.zdnet.com/android-invades-the-desktop-7000017286/

Sheeple follow their games

[erroneus]

Direct X is for games. And people who want to play their games will give up all sorts of important things in order to play them.

Recently, the always-online and amazingly intrusive Microsoft eye have caused Microsoft to back off on some things and that's encouraging, but the behavior is obvious and Microsoft wouldn't try it if they didn't think they could get away with it.

"Oh, I hate Windows 8...I'll never use that... oh? What's that? The next release of my favorite game? Only on Windows 8? I hate Windows 8... oh well... Windows 8 'just so I can play my game.'"

Re:Sheeple follow their games

[Mike Frett]

But the good news is that more developers see DirectX as a single-platform solution and are pushing more resources to OpenGL development. Hence a recent quote from the Natural Selection 2 team:

"The drawback of D3D11 is that it is not universal. It only works on machines running the requisite operating system, and on hardware capable of understanding the instructions it sends. According to to the Valve Hardware Survey, the penetration of D3D11 capable machines is increasing. But crucially, machines incapable of any D3D rendering are also a growing market: Linux distributions and Mac OSX.".

And from Leadwerks, the tool to build AAA Linux games on Linux. Their Kickstarter is set to complete and the Steam Greenlight was one of the quickest in history:

"It's interesting that as popular technology is becoming more locked-down, from the Windows 8 closed app store to the increasing DRM requirements of the new consoles, people are responding by showing a new interest in open systems like Linux and Valve's upcoming SteamBox. I'm a hardcore PC gamer, and it's disappointing to me how Microsoft has treated games on Windows like an unwanted child for so long."

Times are changing, the Windows crowd can kick and scream all they want. And with all the NSA information about Microsoft being their #1 fan, it takes complete ignorance or just sheer insanity on the part of people to use anything from Microsoft. I used Windows for 15 years until last year, but my eyes opened and there isn't a way in hell I would have a product from Microsoft in my Home. I'm sorry if it hurts to hear this, but it is what it is.

Game developer Simon Roth said this recently on twitter that got props from other Devs: "Never waste time learning any of Microsoft's proprietary API's."
A lot of Indie devs feel the same way, and like it or not, Indie is the future of Gaming. Ouya, MadCatz, Google -- you can see it changing before your eyes.

Re:Sheeple follow their games

[gl4ss]

I'll bet you're forgetting that Microsoft (and other platform makers) pay game makers for "exclusive" titles which draw more players to their platform.

pfft. he is not forgetting that. the scenario already didn't happen. the exact same scenario with vista and dx10.

ms has paid exclusive title money for some stuff on their appstore as well. nobody gives a shit.

Re: Sheeple follow their games

[nojayuk]

The professional video and TV editing biz got shafted by Apple during the great Final Cut Pro disaster a couple of years back and a lot of them have shifted to Avid and other non-proprietary OS-hardware-locked video solutions. They should have seen it coming after Xserve and Xsan got the bullet though.

Re: Sheeple follow their games

[nojayuk]

You can run really good third-party video editing software on Apple kit under OS/X, although the top-of-the-line hardware has been needing a refresh for a couple of years now -- nobody's going to be editing or rendering serious video on laptops or iPads. Final Cut Pro X only runs on Apple hardware since it's an Apple-only product. A lot of pro shops used it as it fit really neatly into their workflow with the ability to outsource audio, colour, output to tape, XML support, project control as well as FCP Server, SAN support etc. When Apple released Final Cut Pro X a couple of years back they got rid of all that pro stuff and added a Facebook button, turning it into a Moviemaker-type package instead. Before that happened FCP had a big following in TV stations, technical schools taught it to trainee editors, lots of third-party support packages to do workflow things and it all ran on the moneymaker Apple hardware under OS/X. Nowadays not so much.

J. J.'s shop uses Avid and could switch over to Dell or HP or anybody else's hardware if he wanted to, no OS and hardware lockin and minimal disruption to workflow. Last I heard FCP X had about 2% of the pro market in the US, a big drop from before and another "creative" market Apple has let slip through their fingers.

Re:Sheeple follow their games

[tepples]

Windows 8 comes with app store functionality bundled.

Applications available through this store must use only the Windows Runtime API (section 3.1). This API lacks DirectInput (source), which means Windows Store games on desktop computers can't use inexpensive or specialized game controllers. They're limited to a keyboard (for Player 1 only), a mouse (for Player 1 only), and an Xbox 360 Controller (which must be licensed by Microsoft). Games must be fully playable with a touch screen alone (section 3.5), which rules out several genres that rely on giving the player physical buttons to perform actions, and it can't have more than five seconds of loading even when run on the cheapest Atom-powered computer with a spinning disk hard drive (section 3.8). Nor may it allow users to create scripts and share them with one another (section 3.9), ruling out user-created game mods that aren't just mesh/texture swaps and the entire Programming Game genre. Nor do games with retro-style low-definition pixel-art graphics like Mega Man 9 appear to be supported, as their screenshots are smaller than 1366x768 (section 6.8).

Where does it say the PS4 is getting it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Where does it say the PS4 is getting it? I saw no mention of that.

Re:So it's going to be irrelevant

[Pentium100]

DX 10 being limited to Vista and newer kept it from being used for a long time, I guess the same will happen to DX11.1 and 11.2. Game companies won't make games that don't run on an OS the majority of the players use (Windows 7).

Playstation 4?

[p.g.king]

"...is going to be exclusive to Windows 8.1 and next generation consoles — Xbox One and Play Station 4." When did Microsoft start developing for Playstation 4?

Re:Playstation 4?

[citizenr]

Idiot summary. Its OpenGL 4.3/OpenGL 4.4

DirectX on the Playstation?

[am 2k]

What? Where did that come from?

Re:DirectX on the Playstation?

[shione]

Ok I did some digging and found this:

At the Game Developer's Conference (GDC 2013), Sony said, "PS4 Shader Language is very similar to HLSL, allows features BEYOND Direct X 11 and OpenGL 4.0"

Then some moron interpreted that as meaning Sony would use directx and extend its features but all it meant is Sony saying their shader language would be better than direct 11 and opengl 4.0.

Will make them angry?

[rsmith-mac]

Undoubtedly it will make the some people angry.

But for anyone that does Windows graphics development and knows something about the underlying system, it's not a big deal. We've known that adding some of these features to Direct3D would require making some changes to the underlying display driver stack (WDDM), which is why D3D 11.2 requires WDDM 1.3 drivers, and WDDM 1.3 requires Windows 8.1. Unless of course you want Microsoft backporting a new version of the display driver stack and breaking your old OSes...

TL;DR: D3D 11.2 requiring Win8.1 can't be helped

Re:Will make them angry?

[deains]

Pretty much this. If you need to make big, structural changes to an OS, backporting it is gonna cause all sorts of problems. Can you imagine if they produduced a service pack upgrade for XP, or an older version of Windows and broke compatibility with tons of classic games? There'd be uproar. And that's not even considering the corporate sector. Basically, breaking existing functionality is generally a bad move, and MS isn't quite that stupid yet.

So it's going to be downvoted.

[Anonymous Coward]

So what does DirectX 11.1 and .2 do that's so important that people will abandon Windows 7?

Re:So it's going to be downvoted.

[aaronb1138]

The sames things were said about Vista and 7.

Frankly, I was less than 2 months into 7 that I looked back and realized I had been stupid to skip Vista purely on "it's new and different" grounds and similarly to wait until 2011 to go to 7. Both were huge improvements on XP. Vista got a bad rap because shithead low end hardware (and a few cases software) makers wouldn't fix their drivers in a timely manner. Since 7 could mostly use Vista drivers when it came out, it was perceived as better despite really just being a cleanup and consolidation of good choices in Vista. Windows 8.1 will be the same thing.

I would be using Windows 8 on more hardware, but Intel decided to f*ck everyone on Atom / GMA based touch devices who bought hardware released even the same year as Windows 8 if it didn't include their Windows 8 hardware tax. Basically, the problem is consistently not Microsoft, but the hardware OEMs who produce crap or poor support. Microsoft's own internal studies are showing somewhere in the neighborhood of 80% of BSODs on XP/Vista/7 were not due to the OS, but directly due to graphics drivers. With Vista and 7 they created a framework for being able to control and reboot the GPU drivers and BSODs have massively dropped. Frankly, more Microsoft KB articles and help fields should point the fingers at software and hardware manufacturers when applicable. They've always been way too nice and softballed the error sources.

Re:So it's going to be downvoted.

[Charliemopps]

You're confusing the UI with the underlying OS. MSFT continues to improve the OS itself, but at the same time they, for some crazy reason, feel it necessary to radically modify the UI every time they have a new release. Not only is this annoying to their dwindling home users, it adds training expenses and delays to it's corporate adoption. On top of that the Metro UI is basically the antithesis of productivity.

Re:So it's going to be downvoted.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, the difference from Vista + SP2 + bunch of hotfixes to 7 is hard to spot.
Try the original RTM Vista. Say hello to horribly slow explorer file copy, indexer and background defrag kicking in at the most inappropriate times, paranoid default UAC settings, ...

Re:So it's going to be downvoted.

[gsgriffin]

While as a Windows OS users for' 20 years I don't LOVE 8, I do see where they are trying to head. No Windows 8 is not perfect, but it is the first OS that is trying to bridge the tablet/laptop gap. I'm currently typing on my Surface and love a lot, hate a little. My hope is that over the iterations, I will love more and hate less.

The real game changer for me is that the keyboard is close to the screen and touching the screen for many things is a lot easier than keyboard shortcuts or using a mouse/touchpad. When I move to a laptop, I find myself touching the screen to try to do basic functions. I do wish all laptops came with a touch screen now and am understanding the direction of Win 8. For all of the failures and frustrations with 8, try to consider the direction they are heading and the potential awesomeness of small, portable, touch screen devices with real keyboards that allow for productivity and interactivity beyond the typical laptop and with most of what we like about tablets. My daughter's Lenovo Yoga is also perfect in this regards. My son's powerful Asus Win 8 laptop is a little frustrating...no touch screen.

My point comes down to this, anyone reviewing Window 8 should do so with a touch screen. Never install in a desktop. If you are doing a gaming computer, wait for MS to find a better balance between desktop use of their OS and the portable design, which metro is intended for.

Re:So it's going to be downvoted.

[yoshi_mon]

My point comes down to this, anyone reviewing Window 8 should do so with a touch screen.

No. No I will not and it is because Win8 is being sold as a desktop OS. I don't have, want, or need a touchscreen for my desktop OS so you are 100% wrong in asking that we change our work flow, that has been polished over many years with a keyboard and then mouse interface, to what amounts to a mobile UI.

Further this move is yet another force play by MS to push their mobile UI on to us desktop users. Which they are doing for a number of self interested reasons that offer desktop users nothing in return.

Yes I have heard that Win8 boots faster. Seriously? That is the only tangible thing that I've seen other than some questionable performance gains from whatever other code updates have been done beyond the UI. And I hate to break it to MS, and its shills and fanboys, but I've had an SSD for years now and boot times are not an issue.

It is clear that with the 8.1 update, something MS has not done since Windows 3 (wow!) that they are trying to "fix" their self created problem. However they only went part way because were they to actually fix the whole problem they would be undoing their whole plan that benefits them alone.

Re:So it's going to be downvoted.

[Anonymous Coward]

The Metro interface was basically a way to train people to use the same interface as WP8 so they could sell more phones. It's sort-of working, with WP8 now at 3% of the smartphone market, but they've achieved that by Nokia losing money on each phone.

Re:So it's going to be downvoted.

[bluescrn]

But it's NOT ABOUT THE UI with windows 8. The UI issues are merely a mix of incompetence and misdirection.

Windows 8/WinRT is all about moving people from the desktop to Metro. From general-purpose computing to 'App Store computing'

Microsoft are following Apple, pushing as many people as possible into a world where all code must be signed, approved, censored, and taxed at 30%+ by the platform holder. And to do that, they will gradually limit the usefulness of the desktop.

Re:So it's going to be downvoted.

[Draconix]

Funny thing, actually, on Win 8 booting faster: it's largely because they quietly turned "Shut Down" into "Hibernate". When you select "Shut Down" in Win 8, you're really hibernating it. The only way to properly shut it down is via the command line. I learned this the hard way as a PC repair tech; I couldn't mount a Windows 8 volume using ntfs-3g, even though I'd "properly" shut it down Win 8. I did some digging and learned the truth, and shut it down via the command line, and was able to mount the drive using ntfs-3g.

Re: So it's going to be downvoted.

[DigiShaman]

powercfg.exe /hibernate off

That command (elevated prompt) still works in Windows 8. Now your shutdown button works as such.

Whatever

[Sevalecan]

Well, it's true that I don't play a lot of games these days. I spend a lot more time pursuing my goals in life, so I don't have hours and hours to just sit down and immerse myself in all sorts of high end games. I tend to stick to a few that I like and play them from time to time, and DX 11.2 isn't required by any of them, or even the new title(s) that I'm interested in which are still WIP.

Other than that, I spend the vast majority of my time on Linux with KDE 4. Even moreso with Minecraft working on multiple platforms due to Java. The only new title I'm currently interested in is Planetary Annihilation, which if I recall correctly, will support a Linux port. So I guess my care-o-meter about this announcement is somewhere around zero.

I will say this, though. The user interface style that was developed, with a task bar and normal start-menu (not this metro start screen crap) was developed and refined over a period of 20+ years or so now. It's available across many operating systems and kernels. It's there because it works rather well. If you ask me, this touch-centric crap that Microsoft is pushing isn't much good beyond tablets and phones, where your primary mode of interface is your finger on a screen.

So, tablets and phones came along and a new interface style was designed that worked better with almost-exclusively touch-screen interface devices... Then Microsoft decided that *everything* should use this interface. I'm not interested in relearning how to use my Desktop's or Laptop's interfaces. Screw Windows 8. If I found a part of my computer's user interface to be highly inefficient, requiring a redesign to solve the problem, I'd be very aware of it. I hate wasting time. But the stuff before Metro in most cases doesn't give me that impression. Metro does.

So there's my possibly subjective rant. But hey, the article asked.

Re:Angry

[JustOK]

My new high-end HP running Win 7-64 with 32GB RAM takes 5 minutes to boot...

Don't blame Windows for that.

Re:Angry

[Golden_Rider]

My new high-end HP running Win 7-64 with 32GB RAM takes 5 minutes to boot..

I know that HP sometimes make it hard to find the power button on their PC, but that is a bit ridiculous.

Re: Angry

[ThreeKelvin]

If you're running control software similar to what I'm running, it's the cause. My computer went from incredible fast to really slow when I installed my plc and hmi development tools.

Is there anyone running Windows 8...

[Secret Agent Man]

...that doesn't want to upgrade to 8.1? It's a free upgrade and, as far as I'm aware, doesn't make any changes for the worse. The only thing I can think of is "local searches are sent to Bing," but since that's easily disabled, I can't think of a reason not to upgrade if you're already running on 8.

Re:Angry

[dbIII]

Give up and look at his posting history. He's a troll that delights in deliberately appearing to be stupid.

Re:Will make them use standards.

[WilyCoder]

DirectX is an API, not a standard. It doesnt even have a spec doc like OpenGL does.

Windows XP and integrated graphics

[tepples]

It's amazing how much DX9 stuff we still see.

I imagine that companies that ship DirectX 9-compatible game engines are trying not to exclude some PC owners from their market. These potential customers own PCs with Windows XP, PCs with older video cards that don't support all the new features of DirectX 10 let alone 11, and PCs with no video card at all whose integrated graphics can't easily make use of new DirectX features.

Again?

[saleenS281]

This question has been asked on slashdot with literally every release of Windows that I can remember back to at least 95. Yes, people will complain, no it won't hurt Microsoft's sales. No, people won't stop buying their product because getting a major new feature requires you to upgrade the whole OS. I eagerly await this exact same thread two years from now.

Re:Will make them use standards.

[jones_supa]

This. Why does every app have to ship their own DirectX runtime libraries? Can't they be included with Windows?

How is the issue handled with OpenGL?