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Android Co-Founder: Fragmentation "an Overblown Issue"
curtwoodward writes "Sure, developers might pull their hair out trying to keep track of all the versions of the Android operating system scattered across hundreds of millions of mobile devices worldwide. But a co-founder of Android says the OS's fragmentation problem is being blown out of proportion. At an event this week in Boston, Rich Miner — now a partner at Google Ventures — said some level of fragmentation is inevitable with Android's reach and the number of partners in the ecosystem. But things are getting better, he said, and in any case most consumers don't notice the difference: `This is a bit of an overblown issue, frankly.'"
This just in: Guy with stake in product says nothing is wrong with product. Film at 11.
The problem is NOT overblown at all. There is a serious problem when there are apps that require a specific android version or device and the numbers are increasing.
And I'm just an end user who owns both Android and iOS devices. When I see the disparity in app quality on both platforms, especially in games, and hear developers explain why Android is so much more difficult to work with I'm going to take it at face value.
but I as a developer sure do notice. The biggest issue I keep running into (developing backend software for my companies frontend software) is that testing on a mix of devices means learning the quirks for every single manufacturers user interface that they have bolted on top of Android. We've also had some weird issues based upon the Android version installed, across two devices with the same Android version number (4.0 for example) with the carrier/device manufacturers changes we have a bug on one but not the other.
This is highly annoying.
One issue that Android users hail as the greatest thing since sliced bread (alternate keyboards) actually meant having to write work-arounds because some keyboard implementations were simply broken, or actually caused issues with entering text in certain situations. An alternate keyboard shouldn't be able to have that sort of an effect!
Fragmentation is real, and it is an issue. Consumers don't notice because they only use a single device, developers and power users that may switch more often than the average user will notice and it is an issue.
cat
Is that really true, though? There's an unfortunate tendency in the tech industry to talk down to the "average user" as though they had never even seen a computer before.
Maybe that was useful at one point, but these days assuming your users are unfamiliar and uncomfortable with technology seems laughable.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
Most people I know buy high-end Android phones that are either clearly the best phones on the market, or the best for the price (like the nexus 4). Perhaps that's just me though ...
Google marketing: you botched this one. First you claim the improvements are amazing, then you claim most users don't even notice? Either the amazing features arn't getting used, or they are not better. Either way, I don't see how thats a good thing.
Is that really true, though? There's an unfortunate tendency in the tech industry to talk down to the "average user" as though they had never even seen a computer before.
How to make sure you NEVER say that again: get a job working tech support.
... I ... I ... I had no idea..."
What you will say instead: "My God
They know their uses are familiar and comfortable with it, but only on the most superficial of levels. They'll happily integrate a device into their lives but don't actually understand it past the outward facing veneer. What they do is discourage further understanding via walled gardens, DRM, and other lockouts.
Tech support rant time:
I did tech support initially. You will mourn for the human race (especially the race of your home country or country calling in) as a gestalt after a while after dealing with all the calls you get, day after day. To boot, a good chunk of these people have an attitude problem, as if they are proud of the fact they broke something and are getting a lackey to "fix" [1] it for them.
Here in the US, being a loud-mouthed Luddite is encouraged. STEM and computer literacy is for outcasts, people who will never make the football [2] team.
Of course, with the floodgates open for businesses to get cheap H-1Bs, there is never need for most Americans to even give a rat's ass about how something works or learning basic IT skills such as how not to get one's computer constantly compromised.
Of course, this means long term the country is fucked [3] when it comes to mattering in the global scheme of things, but most Americans care more about a Jersey Shore rerun than actually trying to learn relevant skills in science and technologies.
[1]: When I say "fix", I mean get in a state of acceptable use. This sometimes can never happen with some people.
[2]: US football.
[3]: I normally write fscked... but this case, the full vulgarity is the thing that works. I'd LOVE it if the us were fscked... that means we would have a consistent filesystem and working metadata.
Is that really true, though? There's an unfortunate tendency in the tech industry to talk down to the "average user" as though they had never even seen a computer before.
He didn't say that at all, but I do think the idea that the vast majority of Android users don't know what version they are using is true and no different to iOS users, the only reason iOS users are up to date is that they get an update notification and a button to press. If Android had a mechanism to deliver updates to all devices you'd see the same thing but the many individual carrier and OEM forks prevent that.
How does Apple have forced obsolecense? They actually release upgrades for their phones. Even the 3GS can run IOS 6. For the new IOS 7 they're dropping support for the iphone 3GS, but that phone's getting pretty old now. Sure there will be problems with running programs that require faster processors on the old phones, but Android has the same problem. Android has the additional problem of developers having to support 3 or 4 different OS versions in order to support all the devices. Also, with Android, there's the problem that if your phone wasn't one of the popular ones, there's a lot of stuff that doesn't work with it, and finding accessories for them can be almost impossible. Even getting unofficial upgrades for unpopular phones using things like Cyanogenmod is impossible since they only support popular phones models.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
How exactly did Apple choose the latter? The four-year-old iPhone 3GS has gotten all updates from iOS 3 up through iOS 6.1.3. It is only until 7 that it will no longer receive them. Many Android phones haven't seen updates beyond what shipped with the device.
Yeah, Apple continued to give it OS updates even after it was discontinued. That's pretty much the opposite of "forced obsolecense". I had the T-Mobile Galaxy S that shipped with 2.1 that was supposedly going to get the Android 2.2 update from Samsung "just around the corner" and yet that didn't materialize for over a year after I bought it. And then it never officially got Android 2.3 since Samsung had long since moved on to the SII.
Since this is to do with source signature verification which only the Google App store uses (other stores use alternative signature mechanisms) and from the article you linked:
I have to concede, I agree, it is quite overblown.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
why not just sideload?
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
More accurate version: "Android co-founder says that users don't notice fragmentation, because OEM customizations make the phones shitty no matter what version they are."
My wife recently bought a new phone. She didn't just want a phone that runs apps.
She wanted a white one.
It also had to play that god forsaken game The Croods (which works flawlessly on my 2.3 android, her 3.something tablet and her new 4.2 phone. What's this fragmentation problem again?).
It's not a user problem, its a developer one.
F-Droid for open-source apps, including ad blockers. BotBrew for a debian-like package management system.
Not a sentence!
The problem is that most phone vendors (basically all except Google) never update the Android system after the phone is released. This means that there are millions of phones stuck on some ancient versions of Android but many apps for Android are targeted at specific version which are constantly getting higher and higher because Google keeps pumping out new versions of Android.
But your phone doesn't get slower and slower and the OS gets upgraded.
Because they have no clue what they are buying. They just wanted a cheap phone than runs apps.
Which is why high end Galaxy S# and HTC One phones sell so well huh?
Remember that a $350 Nexus 4 is in the same category as a $900 Iphone. So in that context, what you say is half true (I'd wager good money that Iphone buyers know less about phones than Android buyers), but a cheaper phone is not a crappier phone (in fact, between the Nexus 4 and the Iphone, you're getting more phone for less money).
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/195310/Video_iOS_Android_myths_dispelled.php Here is a post mortem from a game developer who released two mobile games on iOS and Android. He briefly explains that both of the games ran perfectly fine on all but 3 devices. They weren't targeting a specific version of Android. They're supported devices were over 1900 devices for each game. So the fragmentation isn't as big of an issue as Apple likes to talk it up to being. And after the T-Mobile announcement today the fragmentation should only get better from here.
As the owner of a non-upgradeable Android 2.3 phone (Motorola Defy XT) I find that most apps I care about work fine on the phone... with the exception of all the new Google apps and updates to said apps.
Google Maps
GMail
Google Now
Chrome
all of these apps are either not available, or are only provided in downlevel versions. You have to be running 4.x to get the latest and greatest apps.
Meanwhile, Google produces versions of their apps to run on iOS 6, which is available on every iPhone back to the 3GS from 2009.
[3]: I normally write fscked... but this case, the full vulgarity is the thing that works. I'd LOVE it if the us were fscked... that means we would have a consistent filesystem and working metadata.
I understand that the government is working on the metadata thing...
-- "Oh. This guy again."
I have a still perfectly functioning ipod touch first gen where I can't basically reinstall any of the apps I own because the current versions of them in the app store are not compatible with my IOS version. If I decided to wipe it and resell it it would basically be a paperweight for anybody who purchased it as they would not be able to install anything on it.
In the end companies should be free to EOL old versions of their OS, obviously, but there should be an official way to get versions of apps compatible with your old OS if the app existed already in the first place. If I have app foowiz 1.3 that runs just fine on OS 1.0 and recompile it to have a minor enhancement and the toolkit now makes it mandatory that I can support only OS 2.0 and up, there should be a way for OS 1.0 users to keep downloading 1.3 while everybody else moves to 1.4 and above.
It would definitely be a lot more environmental to allow customers to keep using their old devices, or sell them (rather than tossing them) not to mention that it would make them more likely to buy more of your devices since they would trust that said devices would remain supported in the future.
-- the cake is a lie
from what you are saying it seems android is more lenient about allowing you to target old devices.
They are, which is why software quality on Android lags iOS.
Apple at the moment does not let you submit to the app store anything targeting anything under iOS5 (a somewhat recent change after 6.0 had been out for a while).
This may mean some older devices drop out - but at this point the only devices out are some 1st gen iPod touches and the very first iPhone (not even the iPhone 3G which can run iOS5). That is not unreasonable and means that applications generally make use of new and advanced system features sooner rather than never.
In a world where Android developers pretty much have to target 2.0 devices as a base, you lose some ability to use advanced features to make a better app. That is dragging down quality all over and is only going to become more of an issue as iOS framework features advance...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
And resolved for 100% of them.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
...crashes, reboots, horrible bugs that render your device unusable.
So, yeah, he's right, that one problem is not significant when compared to these.
Sure, Android fragmentation is a real issue. However, before Android, just about every phone manufacturer had its own operating system, and it was difficult to do development for.
It isn't like if Android didn't exist, everything would just run iOS. If Android didn't exist, we'd likely have a situation where every vendor has their own entirely different platform. That'd be real fragmentation in the phone industry.
Right now, Android is much like Windows. You don't know exactly what version a user will have, and what hardware and configuration they'll have, but at least there is a set of common APIs you can rely on. Thanks to majority market share, you can develop an Android app and get a massive chunk of the market, even if that app needs some code to deal with specific versions of Android.
AMERICA is the home country of both Google and Dice Holdings. And the big three carriers IN AMERICA refuse to give a discount on service for not taking a subsidized phone.
Fragmentation on Android is a huge problem. Each device manufacturer has their own slightly different version of the OS, each with its own set of issues and incompatibilities. Sure, they only crop up when you try to do specific things... like, say, open a Bluetooth socket.
(I am an Android developer responsible for testing my company's product on dozens of different tablets.)
Most consumers are ignorant of technology. They don't know what firmware is, or even an OS.
They'll notice 'Oh noes, my new game won't work!' But they won't know why. Even if the phone is upgradeable, they won't realise this is an option. That's why many phones include some form of automatic updater.
Most consumers don't look at upgradeability, or even specifications, when deciding on a phone. They buy on two criteria: Does it look cool, and is it fashionable?
Simply not true. Compatibility issues are almost always down to differing hardware/drivers. That's the same on any OS except for iOS where Apple tightly controls the hardware too.
I've done Android development for an industrial product using Bluetooth. Didn't see any issues, the API is stable and just works. If I ever do discover a device that has issues I'd first assume it was down to crap hardware, not the OS.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
The same thing we've always done when developing on Windows, Linux, and even the web with browsers all of which have even greater degrees of fragmentation than Android even though we've never made much of a fuss about it on these other development platforms.
If you can't deal with this problem and think it's somehow unique to or worse on Android then you shouldn't be programming because your knowledge is insufficient to the point of being dangerous.
On your comment about Iphone buyers being less knowledgeable than Android buyers, I think you're right but for the wrong reasons. People who get sucked into the apple garden have a different approach when buying a device. It becomes "which Apple product should I buy?" The distinction becomes clear if you ever read the comments in an Apple review. Its purely brand loyalty. I find it dissapointing to see intelligent people get stuck in the stockholm syndrome that is Apple, but think the reason is more behavioral than intelligence related.
Sounds like an HTC problem, not a 'fragmentation' problem.
You do realize that... you can get Android phones shipping with Gingerbread today, right?
These aren't ancient Android phones running Gingerbread because the user hasn't upgraded (in fact, most people upgrade phones when their contracts expire - because if you're taking on a new contract, you might as well get a new phone!). They're running ancient Android because that's what they shipped with! And what carriers are pushing out.
Basically, the Android phones that move are the free ones (++ Android Fragmentation - for making phones available in a wide range of pricing, -- Android Fragmentation for making crap-droids with crappy UXs possible), and why not? Featurephones cost just as much as a smartphone these days (i.e., free), and the lower end free crap-droids you don't even need a data plan for.