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In India, the Dot Dash Is Done

cold fjord writes that, as promised last month, telegraph service in India is being honorably retired: "Only 7 years behind the US. From Forbes: '... in India, where I'm now sojourning, telegraph service has survived as a basic means of communication since the British East India Company sent the first telegram from Calcutta to nearby Diamond Harbor in 1850... As of July 15, the state company that runs the telegraph service is shutting it down. ... "For long, the telegraph was eyed with suspicion as an emblem of imperial rule," editorialized The Indian Express ... "Yet it brought various parts of the country together and eventually entered the traffic of everyday life. When the telegraph winds up, one of the oldest markers of a modern India will be lost. Stop" — the word that typically ended brief telegraphic phrases rather than periods. Until fairly recently, several hundred thousand messages a day moved over the wires of the telegraph system ...' From NBC: 'When it was completed in 1856, the Indian telegraph stretched over 4,000 miles ... Tom Standage, author of "The Victorian Internet" writes, the early telegraph networks were responsible for "hype, skepticism, hackers, on-line romances and weddings, chat-rooms, flame wars, information overload, predictions of imminent world peace."'"

34 of 86 comments (clear)

  1. Chat rooms? by SeaFox · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'd like to know how a chat room worked on a telegraph.

    1. Re:Chat rooms? by Ozoner · · Score: 5, Interesting

      > I'd like to know how a chat room worked on a telegraph.

      On most Telegraph lines there were many operators spaced at intervals along the line and its branch lines.
      So when there was no traffic to send, the bored operators would chat.

      And of course there were many amateur telegraph circuits, some connecting dozens of enthusiasts in a town or suburb.

      And then of course Amateur Radio came along.

    2. Re:Chat rooms? by vikingpower · · Score: 4, Informative

      Can confirm this from experience with military telex and morse operation networks on ssb shortwave. Chat, chat, chat 'til you drop dead, just in order not to drop dead from boredom.

      --
      Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
    3. Re:Chat rooms? by cold+fjord · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'd like to know how a chat room worked on a telegraph.

      I'd like to know what the flame wars were about.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    4. Re:Chat rooms? by crackspackle · · Score: 4, Interesting

      For an interesting take on why the telegraph led in part to the modern computer and how both work, read Code: The Hidden Language of Computer Hardware and Software" by Charles Petzold. He argues all the ideas needed to build a modern computer were known around the time telegraph use took off, and he uses those ideas to describe logic gates and put them together into a working computer.

      In short, the relay was invented in 1835 as a way to extend telegraph runs further without requiring operators. Morse code, as the primary way to communicate, happened to also be a binary code that mapped letters to the equivalent of ones and zeros, dots and dashes. In 1854, George Boole published “An Investigation of the Laws of Thought”. Petzold stops there and essentially uses only those ideas to build his modern computer. It wasn’t recognized formally by anyone until 1937 when Claude Shannon published “A Symbolic Analysis of Relay and Switching Circuits”. Even Charles Babbage had known of Boole’s work and the telegraph but did not see how it could have been better used to build his Difference Engine.

  2. Probably poetry was possible by tanveer1979 · · Score: 5, Funny

       <  >  !   *  '  '  #
         Waka waka bang splat tick tick hash,

        ^  "    `    $   $  -
         Caret quote back-tick dollar dollar dash,

        !  *  =  @  $    _
         Bang splat equal at dollar under-score,

        %   *   <  >  ~   #   4
         Percent splat waka waka tilde number four,

         &     [    ]   . /
         Ampersand bracket bracket dot dot slash,

         |       {      ,    ,   SYSTEM HALTED
         Vertical-bar curly-bracket comma comma CRASH.

    http://poetry.about.com/od/poetryplay/l/blwakawaka.htm

    --
    My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
    FB : https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
    1. Re:Probably poetry was possible by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 5, Funny

      Waka waka bang splat tick tick hash, Caret quote back-tick dollar dollar dash, Bang splat equal at dollar under-score, Percent splat waka waka tilde number four, Ampersand bracket bracket dot dot slash, Vertical-bar curly-bracket comma comma CRASH.

      Strange . . . that sounds like my upper management, talking about how we need to "tap into the power of social networks with modeling and visualization".

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    2. Re:Probably poetry was possible by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

      I'd like to see Shakira give a rendition of that. Maybe call it Waka Waka This Time for India.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  3. Cellphones killed the Telegram by Frankie70 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Landline penetration was never good in India.

    Hence telegrams were used by people who wanted to contact people without telephones urgently.

    Also telegrams were common during weddings even upto 10 years ago. People who were in cities other than were the couple were getting married typically sent their best wishes to the address given in the wedding card because people won't be at home on that day to pick up the telephone. And telegrams had 20-25 numeric codes for standard messages which made it cheap to send telegrams. If the message you wanted to send was one of the standard 20-25 messages you just send the number as the telegram rather than the message. The receiving telegram office would convert it back to the full message before delivering.

    Cell phones essentially killed both of the above scenarios. And cell phone in India is massive as compared to land lines ever were.

    1. Re:Cellphones killed the Telegram by ls671 · · Score: 3, Informative

      "the charges for mobile service were 36rs(~1$ back in 1998)"

      And now you have to call to in Africa and a few other places to see high rates close to that:

      5321,Cuba - Guantanamo,0.7696$/minute
      22176,Senegal - Tigo Mobile,0.6748$/minute
      24105,Gabon - Moov Mobile,0.5238$/minute
      252225,Somalia - Soltelco,0.5500$/minute
      25778,Burundi - Africel Mobile,0.4460$/minute
      56322100,Chile - Easter Island,0.4600$/minute
      2207,Gambia - Africell Mobile,0.4164$/minute
      22469,Guinea - Areeba Mobile,0.4028$/minute

      India indeed got a lot cheaper:
      917579,India - Bsnl Mobile,0.0134$/minute
      9182310,India - Mobile,0.0122$/minute

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    2. Re:Cellphones killed the Telegram by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2

      Landline penetration was low because it is expensive to run cables. In the 1990s I visited a company who were making fixed phones for houses in Chile. These were big analogue mobiles and dirt cheap compared to stringing cables through the mountains.

    3. Re:Cellphones killed the Telegram by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Informative

      It probably doesn't help(for the survival of telegraphs) that cellphones encheapen exactly the same part of the process that is most expensive with telegram service.

      Unless you want telegram service to be about as useful as media mail, in terms of timeliness, you need a pretty aggressive short-haul postal service running out of the telegraph office. Technology presumably reduced the price of transmission links between offices(at least in places where it was worth upgrading, rather than just milking the legacy copper); but you still have to collect the text on one end, and have somebody run out and deliver it on the other. Even with arbitrarily cheap data transmission, you've still got a postal service hanging off all your endpoints.

      With cellphones, the technology and bandwidth requirements are higher; but now the messages deliver themselves from the sender to the tower and from the tower to the recipient.

    4. Re:Cellphones killed the Telegram by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Landline penetration was low because it is expensive to run cables. In the 1990s I visited a company who were making fixed phones for houses in Chile. These were big analogue mobiles and dirt cheap compared to stringing cables through the mountains.

      It's not just for the sticks and/or brutal terrain anymore: Verizon is looking to move a bunch of Hurricane Sandy-damaged landline customers to 'Verizon Voicelink', essentially a tethered cellular-to-copper bridge. Whether this is a statement on the economics of copper/fiber buildout, or an end-run around the regulations affecting wireline POTS service is a matter of some contention...

    5. Re:Cellphones killed the Telegram by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2

      77 cents a minute is still pretty cheap, relatively. International long distance used to be $2/3 per minute, easily. I used to work for a long distance company monitoring their network. The highest cost I ever saw to land locations were distant Pacific islands at $5 per minute. The most expensive ever were ships at sea (Inmarsat) for $6/minute. I called one of them and it was the bridge of an aircraft carrier!

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    6. Re:Cellphones killed the Telegram by Frankie70 · · Score: 3, Informative

      In India and most countries outside of the USA, landline numbers and mobile numbers have a different format

      Landline numbers = Area Code + Number
      Cell Numbers = one long 10 digit number (there is no area code)

      Because of this, there cannot be portability between landline and Cell numbers.

    7. Re:Cellphones killed the Telegram by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That is the root of the suspicion that Verizon has reasons other than repair costs to not re-run the lines that were cut by the hurricane, to ensure that the area has no copper to any premises, and that whether your phone looks like a landline or not, you are at the tender mercy of Verizon Wireless.

    8. Re:Cellphones killed the Telegram by tomtomtom · · Score: 2

      In India and most countries outside of the USA, landline numbers and mobile numbers have a different format

      Landline numbers = Area Code + Number Cell Numbers = one long 10 digit number (there is no area code)

      Because of this, there cannot be portability between landline and Cell numbers.

      One of the big reasons for this is that outside the USA, generally people do not pay to receive calls on mobile phones; the caller pays a higher cost to call a mobile number than a landline instead (at least in theory, although inclusive minutes deals make this increasingly not the case for either the USA or rest of world). One of the principles that seems to be broadly applied in the numbering systems used in most countries is that you should be able to tell whether a number is an "expensive" one or not by looking at the prefix. Allowing higher cost for calls to mobiles would break this principle (it also makes sense logically, since mobiles are non-geographical so giving them a geographical prefix is a bit weird).

  4. what dot dash by ewanm89 · · Score: 4, Informative

    This wasn't using Morse, in fact outside amateur radio, Morse hasn't really been used for several decades now. Until 2010 this would have been using teletype printers, likely using baudot or Murray code, neither of which use a dash even if one-off keyed. In 2010 the. Company in India upgraded.to a 'web based system's, according to Wikipedia.

    1. Re:what dot dash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      There is loads of misinformation going around on this topic.
      It was also claimed that this was the world's last telegram service to shut down, and this is not true at all.
      Many telegram services are still operating, also in India.
      Poor research, I would say.

    2. Re:what dot dash by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2

      This wasn't using Morse, in fact outside amateur radio, Morse hasn't really been used for several decades now.

      I am pretty sure it is still used in aviation to identify beacons.

    3. Re:what dot dash by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I haven't been able to figure out where the story got its legs. It is true that 'The' telegram service, the one with organizational continuity back to the original system set up to handle the logistical needs of Her Britannic Majesty's colonial occupation efforts, is shutting down. Game over, goodbye.

      However, since virtually any data transmission mechanism will serve as a telegraph medium(they aren't exactly high-bandwidth or anything), there isn't much stopping other outfits from hanging out a shingle and offering telegram services, as some have.

      Does anybody know if the state-run service that is shutting down had some sort of special status for legal purposes(the way the US Postal Service's offerings sometimes count for legal or procedural purposes where fedex or UPS might not)?

  5. Re:one way to catch dudes is Google by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 4, Funny

    one way to catch dudes is Google

    Your lifestyle is none of my business, but this isn't the place.

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  6. Re:Stop. by Chrisq · · Score: 4, Informative

    the word that typically ended brief telegraphic phrases rather than periods

    It is a period. This is like saying that people used a dash instead of a hyphen.

    Though a stop and a period are the same, a dash is not a hyphen:

    The hyphen () is a punctuation mark used to join words and to separate syllables of a single word. The use of hyphens is called hyphenation. The hyphen should not be confused with dashes ( –, — ), which are longer and have different uses, or with the minus sign, which is also longer.

  7. Re:Multiple hops in a telegram ? by quetwo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Telegrams were prefixed with a routing number (telex number), similar to a phone number, and name. The telex number was usually the number of the receiving office... Most telegram systems used worldwide employed a "store and forward" type of system where they would get the telegram from the originating office, wait for the the trunks to be open to the larger offices that consolidated multiple regions together, and then sometimes sent it to the larger office via other trunks. Then the process would reverse sending the message down trunks as they opened up to the smaller offices.

    Of course, most of this became moot when the old copper lines were decommissioned in most countries in the late 1990's and early 2000's. The US and most of Europe switched to routing the telex messages over the internet. Many countries quickly moved to the same platform after. I don't think anything lives in Western's telecommunication office on 60 Hudson in NYC anymore..

  8. Re:one way to catch dudes is Google by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 2

    one way to catch dudes is Google

    Your lifestyle is none of my business, but this isn't the place.

    Darn! Got the P 180 degrees off.

    The es was meant, I had to really look at it till I saw the error, I LOL myself.

  9. My dad was a "combined" hand. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Combined hand is the term used by Indian Posts & Telegraph Department to describe postal workers certified in morse code. He got his certificate in Chennai in 1957 or so. Most common telegraph traffic was rural merchants exchanging price information and harvest forecasts with district and state commercial centers. Usually in the evening and usually obfuscated in terms unique to each trading family.

    But out side business most common people got telegrams bearing death notices. India is a very hot country and usually bodies are cremated within 24 hours. Certain religious ritual need a certain relatives to be present at the cremation. Usually the wife's family (whether the husband dies or the wife) plays an important roles in the rites and the property settlements that follows soon after. Husband's brothers would usually be in the same village, but again sometimes they need to be sent for. Sons/daughters also need to be sent out for urgently. It is not uncommon to actually send messengers out for very important relatives. So for most common people only death notices are important enough to use the expensive, so many rupees per word, messages.

    Middle class folks would also send congratulatory telegrams for weddings they could not attend. The custom again requires certain relatives must be present for weddings, but if they could not be, spending money to send telegrams carries the subtext, "sorry I could not attend, see I am spending expensive telegram, so it shows that I value the relationship a lot, I beg forgiveness for being able to attend". I have heard of people sending double telegrams.

    In a PGWodehouse novel Betram Wooster and his aunt Dhalia exchange some 10 telegrams or so in one afternoon. I found that to be a lot more hilarious than most other people because my prior notions about what a telegram signifies.

    Once the commercial messages went to SMS basically the market disappeared for telegrams.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  10. Re:one way to catch dudes is Google by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

    one way to catch dudes is Google

    Your lifestyle is none of my business, but this isn't the place.

    Are you kidding? What could be more of a sausage party than slashdot? Gay-sausage-party dot com?

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  11. Typical message? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Kindly do the needful. STOP. Warmest regards. STOP

  12. Damn that idiot Columbus by Thud457 · · Score: 2

    is this dot Indian or dash Indian we're talking about?

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  13. A telegraph service, not ALL telegraph service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    There is still telegraph service in India. It's just the state run provider shutting down.

    Source

  14. Telex Machines... by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 5, Informative

    A century ago telegrams were sent using morse, but in the last 80 years or so, a 'telegram' doesn't / didn't mean 'morse code.'

    When Roger O. Thornhill sends a telegram in North by Northwest it would have gone by telex machine. The 'Congratulations!' telegrams we sent and received in my youth were sent by telex.

    ...same deal in India. Telex, not morse

    http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/800px-Telex_machine_ASR-32-640x426.jpg

    1. Re:Telex Machines... by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Probably in USA. In India regular dot-dash telegraph was operational well into the 1970s. I have visited post offices with my dad and been "shocked" by the telegraph equipment. There key-hammer instruments were not insulated and if you touch it you will get a shock. The voltage is not as high 110V but high enough to feel the tingling and make muscles twitch but not painful. I don't know the actual voltage used. I remember the telex machines being introduced to state capitals in 1970s. I have seen the telegrams telegrams written by the hand of the operator in pencil. Telex messages will have lines and line of tape cut and paste literally on to the same form.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  15. Re:I sent a telegram once by unixisc · · Score: 2
    On the last day of the service, there indeed was.

    Hundreds of people thronged the 75 telegraph offices remaining in the country to send their last telegrams to friends or family as a keepsake.

    Some BSNL employees suggested that had the activity throughout the year been that high, the service would probably not have been ended.

  16. NSarse by Korruptionen · · Score: 2

    There's one guy at the NSA that just got his world crushed... because this was his job. Spying on telegraph systems. Poor guy.