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"Smart Plates" Could Betray California Drivers' Privacy

Posted by timothy on from the martha-reeves-has-some-'splainin'-to-do dept.

An anonymous reader writes with news that a California Senate Bill would authorize the state's Department of Motor Vehicles to test a digital registration plate system patented by San Francisco-based Smart Plate Mobile on as many as 160,000 cars. An article on the proposed trial in the Modesto Bee says, in part: "The state hopes the technology will improve efficiencies in vehicle registrations and potentially save the DMV some of the $20 million spent each year in postage for renewals. Privacy advocates say the approach could leave motorists vulnerable to government surveillance by undoing a Supreme Court ruling that required authorities to obtain search warrants before using vehicle tracking devices. 'It means everyone driving in California will have their location accessible to the government at any time,' said Nate Cardozo, a staff attorney at the Electronic Frontier Foundation. In 2010, the Legislature considered a similar bill supported by Smart Plate Mobile, with the noted addition of allowing for scrolling advertisements when a vehicle comes to a stop for four seconds or longer." If only it took smart plates to track you.

22 of 262 comments (clear)

  1. Why is there an assumption of privacy? by Kenja · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While I'm not wild about being tracked, I simply don't feel that I have an assumption of privacy while driving around on a public road.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    1. Re:Why is there an assumption of privacy? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Stalking in public is illegal. You cannot follow someone around and learn about their travels in public. I'm not sure that analogy applies today.

    2. Re:Why is there an assumption of privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      lol @ liberals..
      "I voted for the benevolent dictator and all I got was this panoptic totalitarian police state."

    3. Re:Why is there an assumption of privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Just because you are in public doesn't mean your location should be known by all parties with access to a database.

    4. Re:Why is there an assumption of privacy? by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Of course there's no assumption of privacy when you are in public. But would you want a cop to stand outside every store and bar, taking pictures of every person entering and leaving, and noting what they are carrying at the time? Would you want a cop to follow you everywhere you go, talking to a radio show that is broadcasting it live to the entire city?

      This isn't a case of "privacy while in public", this is a case of "being tracked everywhere you go", and generally the reason given is "for the public good", with "saving the taxpayers money" and "think of the children" thrown in as needed.

      So if you are "not wild about being tracked", why are you downplaying this attempt at tracking every driver anywhere they go?

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    5. Re:Why is there an assumption of privacy? by hawguy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I wonder how difficult it would be to *ahem*....de-activate this tech on the plate?

      I mean, maybe the power/battery accidently gets disconnected? Maybe a rock or hammer accidentally smashes some critical part of the plate system? What if the plate accidentally passed in front of some random, activated HERF gun...?

      I think this plate has an LCD screen that displays your license plate number while you're driving, and public service announcements (and ads of course!) while you're parked.

      If you disable it, it will be immediately obvious.

      But my question is, do I have to buy another expensive plate when a rock (or vandal) cracks the screen, or will the state pay for it since they are the ones that decided that the electronic plates would 'save money'? They are claiming that the new plates will save money because renewals will be automatically sent to the plate rather than needing someone to mail out a sticker, but I have a hard time believing that this electronic device is cheaper than a metal license plate that can last decades with the only maintenance being putting on a new sticker every year.

    6. Re:Why is there an assumption of privacy? by LocalH · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's an illusion held by the paranoid or genuinely guilty.

      This is the mainstream mindset, ladies and gentlemen. Those who are concerned about privacy from the government as a default stance, even in public, are "paranoid or genuinely guilty". Yup. No room for the truly innocent to object on moral grounds, if you object to the government being able to track you then you must have something to hide, and to people like this that is the excuse they will then use to violate your privacy in a much worse way. "What have you got to hide, Citizen? SUBMIT"

      --
      FC Closer
    7. Re:Why is there an assumption of privacy? by JBMcB · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Key word is assumption.

      You have an assumption of privacy in your house. You do not in public.

      That does not mean you do NOT have a right to privacy while in public.

      I like John C. Dvorak's take on the issue. Cops are lazy. They'd love to have a computer spit out suspects based on tracking everyone everywhere so they don't have to go out and do actual police work - collective evidence, interviewing witnesses, etc...

      The end result of tracking everyone will be - you were the only person driving down the street when this crime happened, so you must be guilty. Sure someone could have walked or rode a bike - but cops usually go with the evidence they have.

      --
      My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
    8. Re:Why is there an assumption of privacy? by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Informative

      On public property?!? Who said anything about that? Dang, haven't you ever see a billboard ?!?

      You think private enterprise couldn't do the same thing, renting a few square feet of land or roof top to place a scanner? Heck, they could put these things in billboards, perfect spot already staked out. Watch your car go by, share info, know where you frequent, when you are there, etc. You think the tracking of your web surfing habits can't be extended out from the screen into the physical environment?!?

      *facepalm*

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    9. Re:Why is there an assumption of privacy? by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's an illusion held by the paranoid or genuinely guilty.

      This is the mainstream mindset, ladies and gentlemen. Those who are concerned about privacy from the government as a default stance, even in public, are "paranoid or genuinely guilty". Yup. No room for the truly innocent to object on moral grounds, if you object to the government being able to track you then you must have something to hide, and to people like this that is the excuse they will then use to violate your privacy in a much worse way. "What have you got to hide, Citizen? SUBMIT"

      You missed the key word up there. I'll highlight it for you.

      We have limited privacy. We have phone numbers, email addresses, house numbers, apartment units, SSNs, Drivers Licence numbers, credit card numbers, etc. We have been tracked, recorded and our info shared for decades. It's only increasing now as the storage and processing means have reached a level necessary to maintain our info. The speed with which Philip Markoff, the Craigslist Killer, was tracked and apprehended should have made that clear.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    10. Re:Why is there an assumption of privacy? by classiclantern · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Because of a thing called the Bill of Rights. You can't have free speech without anonymity, and the government has taken that away from us. You can't have freedom of assembly without anonymous movement, and the government has taken that away from us. The government has effectively taken away our Constitutional rights. BTW Mr. Here, our computer puts your vehicle in the vicinity of several known drug dealer's vehicles. That's enough probable cause to get a warrant to search your house, shoot your dog, and plant some evidence. We will be right over.

      --
      Now that I said that, I fell better.
    11. Re:Why is there an assumption of privacy? by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Of course you won't have to pay for it. But your vehicle registration will increase to $500/yr. Just a coincidence.

      I've always been !amused by the fact that I need to 'renew' a registration when no information has changed. Selling a car, buying a car, moving a car, all require me to update my registration, but as long as the VIN/Title and the person it is associated with aren't changing, the registration should persist.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    12. Re:Why is there an assumption of privacy? by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 3, Informative

      I have trouble believing this. Can you provide a citation?

      It is commonplace. Here is a quick example of people doing it at an abortion clinic.

      http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=130243&page=1

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    13. Re:Why is there an assumption of privacy? by buswolley · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I've said this before.

      There are so many laws on the books that we are all guilty of a great many things. There are so many laws, I doubt you could drive from LA to SF without being guilty of a crime that could land you in prison and cost you thousands in fines. There are sooooooo many laws you don't know exist..

      If we are all guilty, who are the ones that get punished?

      The weak, the brown, or any other people the police decide they don't like.

      With so many laws, its about selective enforcement, and with a surveillance state welll....they'll catch you if they don't like you.

      We are all guilty. And the only all seeing, all knowing judge I could tolerate would be a just and forgiving God.

      so if you are white and agree with the politics of the 1%, no worries.

      --

      A Good Troll is better than a Bad Human.

  2. Living in California... by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'd love the police to just be able to scan vehicles to see which are active, which plates do not match vehicles and which vehicles have insurance.

    We are plagued by people who do not have valid registrations, borrow or steal plates and have no insurance.

    Bust 'em on the spot.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Living in California... by Spy+Handler · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree we have too many unlicensed/uninsured drivers in CA. But the cure they propose is worse than the disease.

      If you put in place all the pieces required for massive surveillance on citizens, sooner or later somebody in power will abuse it. Most likely sooner than later.

      The price of freedom is not just eternal vigilance, it's also the willingness to put up with inconveniences. Such as having illegal aliens with no insurance ding up your car.

    2. Re:Living in California... by steveg · · Score: 4, Informative

      The Supreme Court said they were wrong.

      Unanimously.

      --
      Ignorance killed the cat. Curiosity was framed.
  3. Issues with money... by Capt+James+McCarthy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    " potentially save the DMV some of the $20 million spent each year in postage for renewals."

    Why would it safe the DMV money. Isn't that paid for when you pay for the registration anyways as part of the fee/tax?
    I have no issue with it, but the savings should be passed to those paying the bills, not for the govt to keep. But they love taking and keeping our money.

    --
    There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not.
  4. Re:digital screen can easily get damaged by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 4, Funny

    I have a question for you.

    Do you type your postings in a foreign (non-western European at that) language in Google Translate, then paste the results here?

    --
    If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
  5. Power? by magarity · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Where does the power come from for these scrolling advertisements? Will be owner be required to supply a wiring kit to hook it up? Otherwise, how long would a battery last; in an LA traffic jam these plates are going to be running ads for hours at a time.

  6. Bring it on! by kiick · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I for one would love to have a smart license plate. Just think of the hacking opportunities!

    Jailbreak your license plate and display snarky messages to the other drivers on the road. Change your state to "confusion". Temporarily change your plate number and see how many red light cameras you can trip in a row. "Borrow" your rude neighbor's id and run up their toll bill. Steal a smart plate and hack it so you don't have to pay to register your vehicle. The possibilities are endless.

    Any "smart" whatever can and will be hacked. If the incentives are large enough, those hacks will get widely distributed and used. How many incidents of license plate hacking will it take before the police decide it's just an expensive way to enable smart criminals? Not too many, I'd guess.

  7. Special CA license plates are not in the system by schwit1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    http://www.infowars.com/special-license-plates-shield-officials-from-traffic-tickets/

    California Department of Motor Vehicles' "Confidential Records Program," which was created 30 years ago to keep DMV records of police officers private from criminals. The program has since expanded to cover "hundreds of thousands of public employees - from police dispatchers to museum guards - who face little threat from the public. Their spouses and children can get the plates, too.