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Alan Turing Likely To Be Given Posthumous Pardon
pegdhcp writes with news that the UK government has signaled its intent to support a bill that would issue a posthumous pardon to Alan Turing, who is known for his work in defeating the German Enigma code machines in World War II and widely considered the father of computer science. Turing was charged with and convicted of "gross indecency" in 1952 for being gay. He was sentenced to chemical castration, and he committed suicide two years later.
"The announcement marks a change of heart by the government, which declined last year to grant pardons to the 49,000 gay men, now dead, who were convicted under the 1885 Criminal Law Amendment Act. They include Oscar Wilde. ... [Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon] told peers: "Alan Turing himself believed that homosexual activity would be made legal by a royal commission. In fact, appropriately, it was parliament which decriminalized the activity for which he was convicted. The government are very aware of the calls to pardon Turing, given his outstanding achievements, and have great sympathy with this objective That is why the government believe it is right that parliament should be free to respond to this bill in whatever way its conscience dictates and in whatever way it so wills."
Microsoft's Bill Gates, the worlds richest man and a former boy scout, wants the boy scouts to lift the gay ban. Gates said he had enjoyed being a Scout. When Allen turned the conversation to the organization's ban on gay members and leaders, Gates said the policy "absolutely" needed to be scrapped. "Why," prodded Allen. "Because it's 2013," Gates replied, prompting a spontaneous burst of boisterous applause from the audience.
ThinkProgress notes that Gates has shown his support for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) equality measures in the past, donating hundreds of thousands of dollars toward the Washington state marriage equality campaign.
The Boy Scouts has come under increasing fire lately for its longstanding ban on gay members, with poll numbers and a host of celebrities lending support to the cause.
He gets pardoned for his "outstanding achievements". Yet again, it isn't the Rule of Law or ethics that rules Britain, but fame. If you are famous, you get off. And if you are not famous and the law is horribly immoral, then you are fucked.
The Boy Scouts of America has lifted the ban on gay scouts starting next year, but not the ban on leaders.
Just curious, most boys join scouts in first grade. and most of them think that girls have cooties, so how can you tell if a 6 year old is gay?
I know some people want the pardon for him, but I think it makes a bigger statement to leave it. Why let them clear their conscious now? It doesn't help him any.
The government argues that they can't pardon everyone because it would open the floodgates for anyone convicted of any crime subsequently legalized to ask for the same. To my mind that's a lame excuse for not pardoning every gay man convicted of this one specific crime.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
It's disputed whether Turing really poisoned himself consciously, but they did fuck up his life. He shouldn't be pardoned but rehabilitated. He deserves a full apology, not an act of grace.
These post humorous pardons, and official decision changes, are stupid.
Last year The government officially voted to not send Japanese citizens to the internment camps during WWII.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
...to clear Turing of having an official criminal record. The law and the criminal justice system regard you as a criminal if you break a law, whether that was a "good" law or a "bad" law. Essentially, under the legal system, there can't be any such thing as a law that's invalid because it's bad; that would undermine the whole idea of what law is. So what the pardon does is erase Turing's record of being a criminal lawbreaker without making any statement about the validity of the law he broke. That is something that can be done without undermining the very idea of law itself.
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
Rather than assign the duty to a professional writer and then have the results reviewed by MPs, maybe they should hold a two-part contest for computer programs: one to draft the pardon, the other to select the most appropriate draft.
Society was better when "The state is mother, the state is father" were just words on a page.
Next year the US can retroactively free all the slaves and claim that therefore there was never a slavery problem.
Geeks are the ones explaining in detail what GCHQ has been recording on Brits. Geeks are the ones who thought Turing was given a bad deal. So this is a fob to pretend that Cameron is somehow the friend of geeks, even as he's destroying the privacy right and making 'democracy' a joke word.
Seriously, fuck off Cameron, you were elected to fix the surveillance state, no token honor to Turing will fix what you've done Cameron, *no*, what you're *doing* Cameron. It's on-going. We get it, we voted for your to end the surveillance state and you let the policy decided by New Labour lead you. You are not a leader sir, you are an embarrassment.
Fuck off and resign. Turing would be ashamed to see how computers have been turned against the voters. Do you think he made a machine that could be used to persecute him? No.
Many people think Turing cracked Enigma, but this is only partially true.
The Poles were the first to crack Enigma. Turing's lot later cracked naval Enigma. It took the capture of a downed U-boat to crack an updated naval Enigma.
I'm sure that will make him feel better.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
All those ministers went to Eton they were all Fags
I think it's meaningless and a waste of time. The people in charge today didn't commit the offense, and if you want to address past offenses in UK history, a more important place to start would be at Smithfield anyway. I am more in favor of finding people whose rights are being violated today and doing something about that.
I then spend time with open mined smart people when I get sick and tired of the ignorant, bigots, and Bible thumpers.
I am horrified at your embrace of environmentally unsound mineral extraction practices.
I don't endorse his post, but what he wrote is interesting and worth discussion.
Ah, well, you seem so confident in your powers of manipulation and subtleness, I fear you'll learn the world the hard way. Yours is an old and really sad story.
... because his suicide was a direct result of his prosecution and punishment. So unless they can return Alan Turing to life this pardon doesn't mean shit.
Society was happier when people were focused on family and behaved in a (relatively) chaste manner.
Part of maintaining that structure requires a clear sexual values system, including a sense of what is normal.
When we go pluralistic, or make "anything goes" the new normal, this traditional order is threatened.
While I will never support the persecution of someone for being quietly gay, I think a lot of the excesses of that time were designed to counter-act the rising sexual liberation movement.
You suffer from the terrible misapprehension that there is such thing as "normal" when it comes to human sexuality, and that people have ever done anything more than pretend to conform to your mythical "chaste" behaviors. All of recorded history shows us that A) human sexuality is a spectrum that has always included things like homosexuality and B) humans are really not very good at being "chaste".
Also, last time I checked there were an awful lot of people inhabiting those "happier" time periods you refer to who were not happy at all. Quite the opposite in fact, since they were busy being persecuted for what they felt was perfectly normal.
It certainly sounds very much like you do support the persecution of anyone who doesn't fit your personal definition of "normal" or threatens your idea of harmonious social order.
More on topic: This whole thing with pardoning just Alan Turing because he happened to be a genius and helped to win a war makes me want to puke. If the law and the resulting persecution was wrong they should be apologizing and pardoning every single person who was ever prosecuted under that law. Not just Turing. What, those 49,000 others aren't good enough for a pardon? They weren't genius enough to earn an apology for being persecuted? Give me a break. If it was wrong, it was wrong. Otherwise it's just favoritism.
this is just a waste of parliamentary time, time that should be spent solving current problems and dealing with extant matters. The crown can pardon Turing and all others convicted of this crime - and they can do so without wasting the time of the legislature. They could, for example, debate how "austerity" is based on bad maths and the current spending cuts are actually worsening the situation and putting more and more people beyond the ability to feed themselves, but no, they waste time on this.
"... We both pray for an hour, and see if God can tell the difference." - The Long War by Pratchett and Baxter.
So unless they can return Alan Turing to life this pardon doesn't mean shit.
What is means is that the people in power are pandering to those currently living in the hopes of getting future votes.
Exterminate the family line of everyone responsible to deter future idiots.
Problem solved.
Boy, do you all have a small picture view ..
Okay men! This is clear. You may be the greatest mind in the world, and work day and night to advance science, literature, education, etc.
But if you are a man, you will be treated like one. No consoling, no consideration at all. At the time, not wearing a tie could get you fired.. so being gay!
Get this through your heads all. If you are doing anything, anything at all you do not fully enjoy and would not do on your free time, then don't do it for society, your wife, or your kids. I mean this. Your value must be first as a person, and then 2nd as a provider. Until then, and the misandy laws are changed throughout society, do absolutely nothing for anyone but your self and your kids, and your wife - if she is supportive.
AVoiceforMen.com is a good place to look to start to learn about how sociaty fucks you over, takes everything, and if you happen to live (with 20X death rate on job, many men don't.) If you don't start treating yourself well. Find a positive self identity not dependent on society or women or anyone else. The self identity that doesn't include the native spin all the women groups want you to believe, and constantly remind you over and over - don't rape, don't abuse, don't kill today. And ignoring the reciprocal problems for females.. women do rape, women do steal, women do abuse, women do most everything bad and nearly as often, or more often when looking at real domestic violence stats.
Think about this, especially if you have a son. I was a large 12 year old and was confronted numerous times by pycho fems who wanted to give me shit for some crap some guy did to them. This is the mentality you deal with daily, except most women get better at hiding it. This is an extreme, but every sweetie you kiss seems to have this entitled privileged immature princess who feels entitled to everything she wants, and you are just a tool she uses.
If looking for a good female mate I suggest you look to a women who was raised by her father only after some age, 5 or 6 when important crittical thinking and empathy are developing. She will likely see you and treat you as another human person. Good luck!
Pretty shitty. So before you get emasculated completely by society and women I suggest you get some perspective.
Don't forget .. there are never any false rape charges. Ever! And women never lie or are caught with thier pants down. But that's okay, his fault for waiting sex. Another ruined (2) lives.. I say 2 because that women will never, never, never be able to correct her mistake and because she is not charged no one sees this to learn from it. Lets see some parity in jail time and socially destroying consequences.. because the man with the rape charge, even if withdrawn, may never work again. And other tragedies, while her name is kept hidden.
So, my suggestion. Find a life you can enjoy without being the tool. It doesn't have to be lonely, there are plenty of men, and the unusual women (likely older) who to be close friends with.. but there are few, so please be willing to share her time with others. She is too valuable - well worth her weight in gold thousands of times over. Imagine ladies if you could be one of these women! The very thought that there could be two where I've seen one! The concept that I could find a women immune to the simpler life. And possibly real love might be possible.
This might be an unpopular sentiment, but why.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for sexual equality, and have nothing against gay people. But why go through and change history. At the time, it was considered illegal, and the world was a much more conservative place. Pardoning him posthumously does nothing for him, and only makes the current generation of politicians and people feel good and they did something, which in reality has no real meaning.
It is like South Africa, where I grew up. Today, they are changing all the street names, removing all the monuments of the past, removing historical references all over the place. Just because you hide your past, does not change your history.....
I came, I conquered, I coredumped
Being gay is a better solution to population control than messy war.
support a bill that would issue a posthumous pardon to Alan Turing ... was charged with and convicted of "gross indecency" in 1952 for being gay.
The announcement marks a change of heart by the government, which declined last year to grant pardons to the 49,000 gay men, now dead, who were convicted under the 1885 Criminal Law Amendment Act.
One down, 48,999 pardons to go.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Sure of suicide? : Professor Jack Copeland (philosophy) has questioned various aspects of the coroner's historical verdict, suggesting the alternative explanation of the accidental inhalation of cyanide fumes from an apparatus for gold electroplating spoons, using potassium cyanide to dissolve the gold, which Turing had set up in his tiny spare room. Copeland notes that the autopsy findings were more consistent with inhalation than with ingestion of the poison. Turing also habitually ate an apple before bed, and it was not unusual for it to be discarded half-eaten.[103] In addition, Turing had reportedly borne his legal setbacks and hormone treatment (which had been discontinued a year previously) "with good humour" and had shown no sign of despondency prior to his death, in fact, setting down a list of tasks he intended to complete upon return to his office after the holiday weekend.[103] At the time, Turing's mother believed that the ingestion was accidental, caused by her son's careless storage of laboratory chemicals From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing
The conclusion that Turing killed himself has been disputed (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18561092). TL;DR possible accidental self-poisoning.
On the substantive issue, the move for a pardon is simply the government's ongoing courtship of the LGBTQ vote. As other posters have correctly pointed out, Turing broke the law of the time. Trying to gloss over that is both revisionist and opportunistic.
fucking time
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
Part of maintaining that structure requires a clear sexual values system, including a sense of what is normal.
OK, if we need a sense of what's normal, I propose that sex that starts when the hour of the day is an even number is normal and sex that starts when the hour of the day is an odd number is not normal.
The memory of Turing is honored by his conviction. His conviction illustrates his role in helping to uncover the abuses of government. Remember that Turing did nothing wrong. He merely did something illegal. If we ever forget that there's a difference between the two, then we deserve all the governmental abuse we get.
Turing's conviction brings shame only to the UK government, no one else.
By taking away Turing's conviction, they are only attempting to erase the shame on the UK government.
Turing's conviction should stand in perpetuity so that the UK government will continue to be shamed in perpetuity.
Perpetual shame is crucially important -- it serves as a warning for all future generations: "Witness the evil we had in our hearts. Do you have evil in your hearts too?"
A pardon is the government forgiving someone for doing something wrong. What the British government should do in this case is admit that the government was wrong to ever enact the statute in question, and exonerate everyone ever punished under it.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
wtf?? the country of britain offended against Alan Turing, there should be an official Apology for the way they imposed and oppressed this poor hero who helped them win the fucking war.... fucking arrogant idiots...
ac
Alan Turing was a brilliant man, perhaps the father of modern computer science, who helped his country win WW2. His reputation was ruined by his conviction for a crime that never should have been.
Quit all your harping. Let them give him a pardon and then perhaps the honors he was due. He and his family are owed this much at least.
Speaking as a gay man, born shortly after the events in question, I have lived through a lot of the journey from the criminality of homosexuality to where we are today. We have a ways to go to achieving equality for all. I think that this pardon is another step in the journey.
Society was not happier.
Just quieter. People were afraid to say they're unhappy.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Lovely how these things always seem to happen after the person dies. Much easier that way - no need to remember how much shit people had to deal with because society was ass-backwards -to being with-.
Yes, I was born in the wrong time. :=/
Society was happier when people were focused on family and behaved in a (relatively) chaste manner.
When was that exactly? Because I know I'm very happy to be living now as opposed to any other time in history you'd care to mention.
When we go pluralistic, or make "anything goes" the new normal, this traditional order is threatened.
This is the same argument they were making in the 20's, 30's and 50's. We've accomplished a lot since then, and our society is better in most ways. If anything, I'd say it's more restrictive in many ways, rather than "anything goes".
They should NOT pardon him for his "outstanding achievements". They should pardon him simply because its the right thing to do.
Expect the pardon to be withdrawn.
Am I the only one who thinks the "pardoners" can go sodomize themselves? Turing was a hero, and a great man, and he was tormented to DEATH by these same bozos. "Pardon" is not the word I would use. How about, "We're sorry, Dr. Turing, for ever having considered you (or any gay man) to be 'devious' in the first place"?
About. Goddamn. Time.
Society was not happier.
Just quieter. People were afraid to say they're unhappy.
Right and now everyone is afraid to tell jokes or say the wrong word when travelling. Everyone can be subjected to a Fourth Amendment violating search at airports, train stations and bus stations or on roads that happen to run parallel to a border regardless of whether the traveller crossed the border during their trip or not.
Isn't society wonderful? Now everyone get's to be equally miserable and non-free.
So how are you enjoying being groped by random strangers every time you travel? Do you like living in a police state? Well, at least the gays can have their marriages. Who cares if everyone lost their most fundamental rights and privileges just as long as some group that makes up less than 1% of the population got their way right?
A police state that doesn't persecute gays is, ceteris paribus, better than one that does.
And a state that's not a police state and that doesn't persecute gays is vastly better than either of them.
PS. Maybe they will start sending around anal rape squads in the future to ensure that everyone is forced to be a sodomite.
If I'm not in a nasty mood, I'd say "not likely". If I'm in a nasty mood, I'd say "only in your dreams". :-)
Society was happier when people were focused on family and behaved in a (relatively) chaste manner.
You and what crackpot statistician believe that? Perhaps a link to a source? People who "reason" like you are doing are conservative, scared bigots who help to propagate ineffective "us and them" thinking. Step one to all of us getting along would be more tolerance from everyone towards everyone.
Seriously, what bothers you so much about where I or anyone else sticks their privates? Seriously? Nobody is asking you to abandon what you call "traditional values" (and what I call remnants of western patriarchal organised religion–a lot more specific and less widespread than you would probably think) and do anything different with your or your partner(s)' privates. Let's just leave each other be, shall we?
If I'm not in a nasty mood, I'd say "not likely". If I'm in a nasty mood, I'd say "only in your dreams". :-)
Yeah because there's nothing more embarrassing than enjoying male/male sex? God, I'm outta here.
More on topic: This whole thing with pardoning just Alan Turing because he happened to be a genius and helped to win a war makes me want to puke. If the law and the resulting persecution was wrong they should be apologizing and pardoning every single person who was ever prosecuted under that law. Not just Turing. What, those 49,000 others aren't good enough for a pardon? They weren't genius enough to earn an apology for being persecuted? Give me a break. If it was wrong, it was wrong. Otherwise it's just favoritism.
Alan Turing did indeed a lot to help win the war, and at the time he was convicted it wasn't known. Not to the judge, and while whoever would have been responsible for a pardon might have known, his role in the war would have been top secret. Imagine back in 1955 it had been common knowledge that Turing was singlehandedly responsible for saving thousands of British lives. Would he have been pardoned, or should he have been pardoned? You call it "favoritism", but it really isn't. It would have been deserved.
I really don't think it is wrong to pardon someone because he was a not just a war hero, but in fact responsible for saving thousands of lives. Should he be treated better than for example someone he spent the war time looting bombed houses? I think so.
If I'm not in a nasty mood, I'd say "not likely". If I'm in a nasty mood, I'd say "only in your dreams". :-)
Yeah because there's nothing more embarrassing than enjoying male/male sex?
No, but being some cranky homophobe (somebody whining that "Maybe they will start sending around anal rape squads in the future to ensure that everyone is forced to be a sodomite." sure sounds homophobic) who really has gay rape fantasies (which is rather different from just "enjoying male/male sex") would be embarrassing.
Homos don't breed anyway. Whatever your opinion of their habits, what was the point of castration?
What does a pardon say? It says "We recognise that you did something wrong, but we'll let you off.". That is still totally wrong.
Instead he should have his sentence quashed. That would say "We recognise that the law was an ass and you should never have been prosecuted in the first place.".
-- Dave