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Congress Voting On Amendment to Defund NSA Domestic Spying Tomorrow
New submitter Jah-Wren Ryel writes "It's been just over a month since the NSA's dragnet surveillance program was leaked to the public. Tomorrow, Congress is voting on an amendment that would block funding for NSA programs that collect the call records of innocent Americans. A win tomorrow may start a chain reaction — but it won't happen unless we speak up. We have one day to convince Congress to act."
The EFF is urging U.S. citizens to call their representatives, noting that there is no time for email to be effective (find your representative). You can read the amendment on the EFF site, quoting the EFF: "Reps. Justin Amash, John Conyers, Jr., Thomas Massie, Mick Mulvaney, and Jared Polis are proposing an amendment that would curtail funding for the implementation of orders under Section 215 of the PATRIOT Act unless the order is explicitly limited in scope. ... Even as the Amash/Conyers Amendment is gaining momentum, some are rallying around a decoy amendment that would do nothing to rein in domestic surveillance. That amendment, championed by Rep. Nugent, would not alter in any way the government's use of Section 215 to obtain bulk communications records on millions of Americans. EFF is urging Representatives to oppose the Nugent Amendment."
I live in Kansas, so if I called my Congressman, it would be totally ineffective. I have tried before and gotten the form letter which says, basically, "If you have an opinion that disagrees with mine, Suck It." Sincerely Your Congressman
Treadstone? You're worried... It's all but decommissioned at this point. All right. What's next? Okay. This is... Black Briar. Black Briar is a joint DOD communications program that we really feel has good traction. It's got legs. It'll run and run.
> The OP could be much clearer.
Or you could be smart enough to realize that the word amendment isn't defined as "Modifies the US Constitution"
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
Because nothing says reassuring like a vote from congress.
Domestic spying isn't going to end folks. It's here to stay, you're all being profiled now and you don't care enough to do anything about it. The day a new iPhone or Galaxy Nexus comes out you'll all still buy it, even though you've just helped enable domestic spying through your purchase. The day the PS4 with its microphone-enabled controllers and the XBone with its Kinect 2 you'll all rush out and buy it anyway. Hell, Android phones came with CarrierIQ PREINSTALLED, remember that? A keylogger, preinstalled on your phone. They aren't even trying to hide it any more, your phone is a mouthpiece and eyepiece of the State now whether you like it or not.
All I've seen on Slashdot and Reddit about this whole debacle is nothing but a bunch of whining and slacktivism, the most amusing of which was a meme post on Reddit whining on about the lack of "complaints" regarding the NSA lately. Complaints. That's all you have after every right and freedom your own ancestors fought to achieve, complaints? How can you honestly still sing "the land of the free" with a straight face when the anthem plays? The United States of America is the shining example of totalitarianism in the world today.
Let that sink in for a moment and then lament everything that you've lost, because none of you care enough to take it back.
http://www.defundthensa.com/
Site created by the newly initiated http://taskforce.is/
http://www.hollowdepth.com
I don't care about the Americans. I would prefer them defund spying on the rest of the world. That will save them way more money.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Justin Amash is just the kind of Representative that could really make this system work, if there were 430 more like him. He posts all of his votes online and explains his rationale, which is almost always concerned foremost with the legality of the proposed legislation.
For that reason, most of his amendments fail and he's usually on the losing side of popular votes. I'll be delighted if his amendment succeeds and is not subsequently removed in conference or by another amendment, but if I were a betting man, I would not bet on his effort tomorrow having any actual impact on the funding.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
At this point I'm not sure you can actually yank funds from the NSA. Their budget is secret, and they have as secret court system who's records are secret that they could use to overrule pretty much any funding provision.
The NSA has positioned itself completely out of congressional and executive oversight. It's pretty clear that they lie to both branches and get away with it, simply because they have the ability censor and withhold any documents that could prove that they're up to no good.
People get on the Govt's case (specifically the case of presidents and politicians they don't like) for supporting NSA actions.. I don't think it's quite that simple. Congress and the President get advice and information from the NSA and they depend on it for making policy decisions. The problem is the NSA could be feeding congress and the president bullshit, and we've got no way to prove that information right or wrong.
There's no accountability (God, I hate that overused word but it's appropriate in this context) and there is no oversight. There is simply no way to prove that there is or is no conflict of interest, and thus we cannot trust the NSA. (Even if it turns out all of their actions are completely justified!)
We totally aren't tracking who calls their congressman to express support for the bill. Pinkie swear.
Because he says insane things like that the president can suck his machine gun, or that if Obama gets reelected he'll be in prison or dead. How is it you didn't notice that he's gone crazy? He fits right in with the deranged wingnuts who ruined the Republican party.
I'll believe it when the NSA is actually defunded.
The more cynical side of me says this is bullshit politics as usual.
Here's what's really going to happen: the congressman is going to go to the NSA leadership, and say "look, I have hundreds and thousands of constituents who want to shut you down, but if you let me spy on my political opponents, and listen in on their calls, and help me sabotage them, then I can justify and risk continuance of your funding"
The more we petition them, the more they will be able to use shutting them down as a threat to get more political power that is turned against us. I predict it will be a cold day in hell before political leaders in DC give up that kind of power to spy on and blackmail people.
Because he says insane things like that the president can suck his machine gun, or that if Obama gets reelected he'll be in prison or dead.
What, precisely, is insane about that? Not being arch, I genuinely want to know if there's any valid reason why a man voicing his opinion would be considered an insane act.
Granted, those aren't the most intellectually sound statements ever, but I've heard worse; my current favorite is, "We must sacrifice our freedoms to protect our freedoms." No, seriously, someone said that to me as recently as today. Really.
I get the feeling that "crazy" in this debate can be translated to "holds an opinion I strongly disagree with."
"How is it you didn't notice that he's gone crazy? He fits right in with the deranged wingnuts who ruined the Republican party."
How is it that you can make such a broad generalization and still consider yourself sane? You should, as any sane person should, know that generalizations are defacto falsehoods, because to generalize is to assign specific factors to non-specific groups, and thus are highly inaccurate statements.
Anyway, I always knew the definition of insanity to be, "performing the same action over and over, while expecting a different result." By that definition, every single person who supports either of the major parties, expecting Candidate A to be functionally different than Candidate B, is off their nut.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Pretend you're making a crank call but instead of the usual 12-year old stint, just say "I'm calling to voice my support for the Amash amendment. I want the funding stripped from the NSA and given to NASA instead". It will take all of 10 minutes and even if your rep is a douche, at least you don't have to be.
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
The other thing that could be clearer is that this has exactly zero chance of having any success.
Congress defunding something merely results in the administration transferring discretionary funds to the program so that nothing is changed, other than the Forest service doesn't get new ranger trucks this year, or the Coast Guard runs obsolete cutters for another year past their life expectancy (which expired 25 years ago).
The money thusly transferred will be totally lost in the morass of government accounting and end up being more secret than the secret budget of the NSA.
Until Congress gets the balls to outlaw this program with criminal penalties, simply taking away funds away is a pointless gesture, like sending a kid to his room with no desert, but sneaking a double helping of cake and cookies into his later.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
"We must sacrifice our freedoms to protect our freedoms" is a dumb statement, but not a crazy one. It makes a point, and it allows for rebuttal and debate. "Obama can go suck on my machine gun" is a crazy statement. Rather than put forward any argument, it's a personal threat against the man he disagrees with.
Take a counterpoint: Charlton Heston was a firm defender of the 2nd Amendment. He spoke loudly and openly for his Constitutional rights. But he did not (afaik, at least) spew vitriol, personal attacks, or threats. Both Heston and Nugent held opinions that I disagree with, but I consider Nugent and not Heston to be crazy.
Everything is better with chainsaws.
...one man in charge, that could issue an order halting the controversial practices of the NSA.
So, today, I called Representative Bishop and urged him to support the Amash amendment.
Who knows? If a Utah Senator can acknowledge there is a problem, maybe there is some hope.
I made my letter available at: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Bd9crUNvPF71alxCVKcUmVarn80aJQJmZe4FLyzKWXU Feel free to mine it for suggestions for your own action.
that financed the NSA in the first place, dont expect them to actually defund them, if anything they just defund it on the surface and re-route the funds through the Dept of Defense where all the hidden funding goes through already
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
So, if I said "Antipater can take a flying leap at a rolling doughnut," you'd consider that a crazy statement and threat?
Um. if you told me to jump into a rolling doughnut, I might think you're crazy for different reasons.
As for "cold dead hands" vs. "suck on my machine gun", I find your interpretation as odd as you find mine. "Cold, dead hands" is a generalized statement of what lengths Heston was willing to go to to defend his guns. "Suck on my machine gun" is a specific threat, especially given the context of a concert in which he would shoot arrows at pictures of liberal candidates. Heston also (again, afaik) never called political opponents pieces of shit or worthless bitches, or called for them to be decapitated.
Everything is better with chainsaws.
Let me get this straight.
The same people who have destroyed the republic that once existed under the Constitution and Bill of Rights are going to defund drones?
If you believe that they actually do, I have some swamp land in Florida that is really beach front property you should buy.
No way in hell they are going to do that, even if the press says they do, they won't secretly.
The cache of industrial and financial information the NSA/CIA and its crony congressman get ALONE is far to valuable to just shut off.
-Hack
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
Its a lot different.
You can hid the cost of massive data gathering because its almost all automated, already in place, and all you have to do is
pay the power bill for the taps already in place at Verizon and other providers. Its just money and not that much of it.
Its not ships and planes and armies carrying on bombing campaigns.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Actually, defunding this program has an enormous impact on pending court cases. One cannot argue that Congress has authorized this program if Congress has voted to deny it funding. As such, the executive branch would then be running an unauthorized program against the express will of the legislature. At that point, the primary argument against court challenges - that this is legal because it has Congress' stamp of approval - is moot and the court challenges actually have a better chance of having the program declared illegal.
At that point, if the executive branch continues running it, they risk massive backlash and someone (not someone -too- high up of course) will probably go to prison.
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
"He said he would try to address the problem." TRY. He didn't say he will do it. :/
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
"Who did you hear about this from? We've been getting a lot of calls about this."
--from a staffer in Frank Wolf's DC office, 10th district of Virginia around 5PM this evening
I asked the staffer if he was aware of the Rep. Wolf's position on the matter. He wasn't; I mentioned my concern and encouraged Wolf's support for the amendment that limits funding to the NSA's effort to broadly sweep up call data for domestic surveillance. When he asked who was driving this effort, I didn't say slashdot, but said the topic had been in the news with a big lawsuit being brought against the NSA by the EFF.
Apparently, all the IT folks up here in northern VA got the memo and called.
...when everything is a crime, everyone is a criminal.
If you're a foreigner being spied on by the NSA, take it up with your own government. If YOUR government won't protect you from OUR government, consider getting a new government.
And that, girls and boys, is the reason why very small groups of people (aka governments) owns vast groups of people (aka citizens). Being selfish and ignorant makes you stupid, weak and easy to break into submission.