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Congress Voting On Amendment to Defund NSA Domestic Spying Tomorrow

Posted by Unknown on from the busy-signal dept.

New submitter Jah-Wren Ryel writes "It's been just over a month since the NSA's dragnet surveillance program was leaked to the public. Tomorrow, Congress is voting on an amendment that would block funding for NSA programs that collect the call records of innocent Americans. A win tomorrow may start a chain reaction — but it won't happen unless we speak up. We have one day to convince Congress to act." The EFF is urging U.S. citizens to call their representatives, noting that there is no time for email to be effective (find your representative). You can read the amendment on the EFF site, quoting the EFF: "Reps. Justin Amash, John Conyers, Jr., Thomas Massie, Mick Mulvaney, and Jared Polis are proposing an amendment that would curtail funding for the implementation of orders under Section 215 of the PATRIOT Act unless the order is explicitly limited in scope. ... Even as the Amash/Conyers Amendment is gaining momentum, some are rallying around a decoy amendment that would do nothing to rein in domestic surveillance. That amendment, championed by Rep. Nugent, would not alter in any way the government's use of Section 215 to obtain bulk communications records on millions of Americans. EFF is urging Representatives to oppose the Nugent Amendment."

28 of 276 comments (clear)

  1. I would, but... by cphilo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I live in Kansas, so if I called my Congressman, it would be totally ineffective. I have tried before and gotten the form letter which says, basically, "If you have an opinion that disagrees with mine, Suck It." Sincerely Your Congressman

    1. Re:I would, but... by whoever57 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I live in Kansas, so if I called my Congressman, it would be totally ineffective. I have tried before and gotten the form letter which says, basically, "If you have an opinion that disagrees with mine, Suck It." Sincerely Your Congressman

      You should still call. Express your disapproval if necessary. Silence will be interpreted as agreement.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    2. Re:I would, but... by trum4n · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Disapproval will be interpreted as treason.

    3. Re:I would, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Now you at least know how non-us-citizens feel when they talk to you guys, basically, "who cares if the NSA taps the whole world, as long as they don't tap us-citizens, suck it"...

    4. Re:I would, but... by postbigbang · · Score: 4, Informative

      Most orgs that have 800#s have ANI. Look it up-- like caller-id but more choice.

      Your cellphone put you in the conference room. You can be tracked easily to very confined geometry.

      So it was you. You don't even have to confess, we hacked the VoIP PBX long ago.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    5. Re:I would, but... by RenderSeven · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That would be AWESOME! If the NSA was discovered to be monitoring incoming calls to a Congressman's office the monitoring program would be over. Congress only wants them monitoring the masses, not themselves.

    6. Re:I would, but... by tomkost · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This is the same response that most people get when contacting their congressmen. On top of that, mine is Michael McCall, and he is the Chairman of the Dept Homeland Security committee, so he's REALLY on the side of NSA spying. His people literally laughed at me when I called to voice objection to the Cyber Security Bill.

    7. Re:I would, but... by tippe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There's no guarantee that contacting your congressman will make any difference in all of this, but doing nothing diminishes your chances of affecting any kind of change to nil. Guaranteed that there is a significant part of your population that is going to be spending their evening comatose in front of the TV or watching Youtube, oblivious to or uncaring of this NSA scandal brewing around them. It's a foregone conclusion that they won't be calling their congressman. As someone aware of what is going on, who is not hopelessly entranced by "So you think you can dance" or some other such crap, and who has the power and capacity to maybe do something about it (you have a phone, don't you?), don't you think you have a duty to act on behalf of your country?

      As a Canadian, I can't do much about this particular initiative, but I have on a small number of occasions participated in blocking certain bills that I felt strongly against (new Canadian copyright reform bills), and I did this simply by contacting my MP and various ministers. Did my individual acts, when considered on their own, make a difference? Hell no. But when considered together with similar acts by thousands of other Canadians, it had a very strong impact, and was enough to stop a couple of unfavourable bills in their tracks (at least for a while). If copyright reform can elicit that kind of effort from me, why doesn't the loss and corruption of one of your fundamental "rights" elicit the same kind of effort in you? What is it going to take?

    8. Re:I would, but... by Type44Q · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Last year I would have said you're tinfoil hat material.

      Fifteen years ago, you (and 95% of my fellow techies) would've said I was tinfoil hat material. (I may be a visionary but I'm fucking tired of being right.)

    9. Re:I would, but... by NFN_NLN · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Fifteen years ago, you (and 95% of my fellow techies) would've said I was tinfoil hat material. (I may be a visionary but I'm fucking tired of being right.)

      There isn't much point fighting the natural cycle. Government gains too much power, becomes oppressive... people revolt... form new government... repeat.

      I thought you could break the cycle but people literally have an animal instinct to be told what to do. When I was younger I thought people were naive, but even as I got older I heard educated adults say: "I'm not doing anything wrong so I have nothing to hide". Actual educated adults that should know better.

      I was born and lived during a time of freedom so I can be thankful for being at the right part of the cycle AND that is all. If young people don't pick up the fight that is literally their loss. In fact, I'm of the opinion now that we may as well accelerate the process. Let's just take away people freedom so people finally get the point. We can try to hold on to dwindling freedom or we can aim for a revolution and a new start.

    10. Re:I would, but... by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Now you at least know how non-us-citizens feel when they talk to you guys, basically, "who cares if the NSA taps the whole world, as long as they don't tap us-citizens, suck it"...

      Since the NSA is in the spying business (signals analysis and such, not sneaking around spying), the fact that they spy is of no interest to me at all. It's their job.

      That said, we have this Constitution thing for a reason, and the NSA violating the Constitution IS if interest to me.

      In other words, the NSA spying on foreigners is their job. The NSA spying on ME needs a warrant and/or court order, which they don't have (don't get me started on Secret Courts..).

      If you're a foreigner being spied on by the NSA, take it up with your own government. If YOUR government won't protect you from OUR government, consider getting a new government.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  2. Nothing to see here by Russ1642 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Treadstone? You're worried... It's all but decommissioned at this point. All right. What's next? Okay. This is... Black Briar. Black Briar is a joint DOD communications program that we really feel has good traction. It's got legs. It'll run and run.

  3. Re:Not an amendment - by OverlordQ · · Score: 4, Informative

    > The OP could be much clearer.

    Or you could be smart enough to realize that the word amendment isn't defined as "Modifies the US Constitution"

    --
    Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
  4. The Greatest Lying Mouth of All Time(tm) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because nothing says reassuring like a vote from congress.

    Domestic spying isn't going to end folks. It's here to stay, you're all being profiled now and you don't care enough to do anything about it. The day a new iPhone or Galaxy Nexus comes out you'll all still buy it, even though you've just helped enable domestic spying through your purchase. The day the PS4 with its microphone-enabled controllers and the XBone with its Kinect 2 you'll all rush out and buy it anyway. Hell, Android phones came with CarrierIQ PREINSTALLED, remember that? A keylogger, preinstalled on your phone. They aren't even trying to hide it any more, your phone is a mouthpiece and eyepiece of the State now whether you like it or not.

    All I've seen on Slashdot and Reddit about this whole debacle is nothing but a bunch of whining and slacktivism, the most amusing of which was a meme post on Reddit whining on about the lack of "complaints" regarding the NSA lately. Complaints. That's all you have after every right and freedom your own ancestors fought to achieve, complaints? How can you honestly still sing "the land of the free" with a straight face when the anthem plays? The United States of America is the shining example of totalitarianism in the world today.

    Let that sink in for a moment and then lament everything that you've lost, because none of you care enough to take it back.

    1. Re:The Greatest Lying Mouth of All Time(tm) by LordLimecat · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The United States of America is the shining example of totalitarianism in the world today.

      We have a major problem with the constitution being seen as completely irrelevant (see Obama's decision that he can unilaterally override legislation with Obamacare / immigration; the idea that the fed has the constitutional right to mandate healthcare; the idea that state governments have the right to prohibit firearm posession; etc ad nauseam).

      That said, I have a strong feeling you've never been to a totalitarian government, and have no idea what youre talking about. All governments tend towards totalitarianism, but we're pretty far from it. Part of the issue with "nothing but complaints" is that people get this ridiculous idea that "we've lost, we have no freedoms, and we're already a dictatorship". Guess what, no we're not, we still have a large number of rights, and battles over a lot of them are STILL being fought.

      So next time the discussion over gun control or the first amendment or the 4th amendment comes up, rather than saying "think of the children" and conceding, and rather than saying "we've lost' and giving up, try actually standing up for the principle and letting it affect how you vote. I have a strong feeling that this defeatism is a lot of the reason so many people dont vote, and you really should not be complaining about slacktivism on the one hand and encouraging apathy on the other.

    2. Re:The Greatest Lying Mouth of All Time(tm) by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We have a lot of rights, but they've been largely neutered. e.g., what good is the right to free speech, if your speech can never affect public policy? What good is the right to a trial by jury, if you have to risk the rest of your life in order to exercise it? Really now, what are these "large number of rights" that we still have?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  5. Easier way to find your representative's info. by digismack · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://www.defundthensa.com/

    Site created by the newly initiated http://taskforce.is/

    --
    http://www.hollowdepth.com
  6. Spying on Americans is OK with me by flyingfsck · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't care about the Americans. I would prefer them defund spying on the rest of the world. That will save them way more money.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  7. Three Cheers for Amash by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 5, Informative

    Justin Amash is just the kind of Representative that could really make this system work, if there were 430 more like him. He posts all of his votes online and explains his rationale, which is almost always concerned foremost with the legality of the proposed legislation.

    For that reason, most of his amendments fail and he's usually on the losing side of popular votes. I'll be delighted if his amendment succeeds and is not subsequently removed in conference or by another amendment, but if I were a betting man, I would not bet on his effort tomorrow having any actual impact on the funding.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  8. Will it mater? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At this point I'm not sure you can actually yank funds from the NSA. Their budget is secret, and they have as secret court system who's records are secret that they could use to overrule pretty much any funding provision.

    The NSA has positioned itself completely out of congressional and executive oversight. It's pretty clear that they lie to both branches and get away with it, simply because they have the ability censor and withhold any documents that could prove that they're up to no good.

    People get on the Govt's case (specifically the case of presidents and politicians they don't like) for supporting NSA actions.. I don't think it's quite that simple. Congress and the President get advice and information from the NSA and they depend on it for making policy decisions. The problem is the NSA could be feeding congress and the president bullshit, and we've got no way to prove that information right or wrong.

    There's no accountability (God, I hate that overused word but it's appropriate in this context) and there is no oversight. There is simply no way to prove that there is or is no conflict of interest, and thus we cannot trust the NSA. (Even if it turns out all of their actions are completely justified!)

    1. Re:Will it mater? by tukang · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The NSA called an emergency private briefing to lobby the house against the amendment, so maybe it does matter: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/23/keith-alexander-justin-amash_n_3639329.html

  9. No, somehow - I smell bullshit by argoff · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'll believe it when the NSA is actually defunded.

    The more cynical side of me says this is bullshit politics as usual.

    Here's what's really going to happen: the congressman is going to go to the NSA leadership, and say "look, I have hundreds and thousands of constituents who want to shut you down, but if you let me spy on my political opponents, and listen in on their calls, and help me sabotage them, then I can justify and risk continuance of your funding"

    The more we petition them, the more they will be able to use shutting them down as a threat to get more political power that is turned against us. I predict it will be a cold day in hell before political leaders in DC give up that kind of power to spy on and blackmail people.

    1. Re:No, somehow - I smell bullshit by iggymanz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      why defund the NSA, the NSA actually has a legimate mission which of course has nothing to do with spying on U.S. citizens. The job it is supposed to be doing is securing the communications of the U.S. government

  10. Re:Not an amendment - by icebike · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The other thing that could be clearer is that this has exactly zero chance of having any success.

    Congress defunding something merely results in the administration transferring discretionary funds to the program so that nothing is changed, other than the Forest service doesn't get new ranger trucks this year, or the Coast Guard runs obsolete cutters for another year past their life expectancy (which expired 25 years ago).
    The money thusly transferred will be totally lost in the morass of government accounting and end up being more secret than the secret budget of the NSA.

    Until Congress gets the balls to outlaw this program with criminal penalties, simply taking away funds away is a pointless gesture, like sending a kid to his room with no desert, but sneaking a double helping of cake and cookies into his later.

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  11. If only there was... by Bartles · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...one man in charge, that could issue an order halting the controversial practices of the NSA.

  12. You never know what you can be done till you try. by dweller_below · · Score: 3, Interesting
    My representatives surprised me. I am in Utah. I figured that there was little point in complaining about NSA abuses. But, I couldn't live with myself if I did nothing. So I mailed my 2 Senators and my Representative. Hatch responded with the expected: "Sit down and shutup." But Senator Lee responded by saying that he agreed the NSA had greatly exceeded Constitutional authority. He said he would try to address the problem.

    So, today, I called Representative Bishop and urged him to support the Amash amendment.

    Who knows? If a Utah Senator can acknowledge there is a problem, maybe there is some hope.

    I made my letter available at: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Bd9crUNvPF71alxCVKcUmVarn80aJQJmZe4FLyzKWXU Feel free to mine it for suggestions for your own action.

  13. Re:Not an amendment - by Loki_1929 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Actually, defunding this program has an enormous impact on pending court cases. One cannot argue that Congress has authorized this program if Congress has voted to deny it funding. As such, the executive branch would then be running an unauthorized program against the express will of the legislature. At that point, the primary argument against court challenges - that this is legal because it has Congress' stamp of approval - is moot and the court challenges actually have a better chance of having the program declared illegal.

    At that point, if the executive branch continues running it, they risk massive backlash and someone (not someone -too- high up of course) will probably go to prison.

    --
    -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
  14. Divide and conquer by ElusiveJoe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you're a foreigner being spied on by the NSA, take it up with your own government. If YOUR government won't protect you from OUR government, consider getting a new government.

    And that, girls and boys, is the reason why very small groups of people (aka governments) owns vast groups of people (aka citizens). Being selfish and ignorant makes you stupid, weak and easy to break into submission.