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Feds Allegedly Demanding User Passwords From Services
An anonymous reader writes "Following the /. story on the Feds demanding SSL keys, now comes news that the feds are demanding user passwords, and in some cases, the encryption algorithm and salt used. From the article: 'A second person who has worked at a large Silicon Valley company confirmed that it received legal requests from the federal government for stored passwords. Companies "really heavily scrutinize" these requests, the person said. "There's a lot of 'over my dead body.'" ... Some of the government orders demand not only a user's password but also the encryption algorithm and the so-called salt, according to a person familiar with the requests. ... Other orders demand the secret question codes often associated with user accounts.' I'm next expecting to see the regulation or law demanding that all users use plain text for all web transactions, to catch terrorists and for the children."
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Can the government force me to make a public statement, attesting that it's true?
Because it seems to me that the government using my private keys to sign a packet that I didn't create is substantially similar.
and stupid has won.
Just start emailing copies of those documents to people on a regular basis and see how long before the government calls you a terrorist and arrests you for inciting revolt.
TFA says the companies resisted - the shame here belongs on the US Government
No doubt this is because terrorists/spies have changed tactics
Or simply because the Feds can get away with it. KGB wannabees are like any other power hungry bastards - give them an inch and they'll take a mile. They want more because they want more. There may be some excuses they use to justify it, but the real reason is simply that they want more.
Names. Give us some names. I'd like to know who are these bureaucrats who ask for passwords? Then, I'd like to see them sweat over the possibility they might be censured, might lose their jobs.
Let them experience how thrilling it is to have their dark glasses taken away, feel what it's like not to be faceless anymore. Then, maybe they'd appreciate privacy a little more.
Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
Considering that the vast majority of people, up until now, would've never known for sure that you buckled to government pressure, you're thinking in a far more optimistic plane than reality. In reality, you, as a small business owner, would buckle, nobody using your service would know about it unless you announced it outright, and it would affect your business in absolutely no way at all.
The terrorists/spies have definitely changed tactics. They're putting on government uniforms now.
I find myself wondering how much of this ( master keys, passwods, ect.. ) we'd be discussing NOW had it not be for Snowden having the balls ( if not the brains ) to leak what he's leaked.
Note to future leakers: Make sure you work out your living situation BEFORE pissing off one of the largest governments in the world.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Considering that the Tea Party hasn't been declared as such and that there has yet to be even one sedition trial for those numb nuts in congress that signed that fealty pledge to Grover Norquist, I think that it's rather unlikely that they'll charge you for sending people those documents.
What if you're an online start-up, with little legal know-how? Are you really going to resist demands from such a high level?
If you have little legal know-how and are confronted with an important legal issue that could have serious ramifications if you screw it up, you consult with a lawyer.
If you are smart, this is always the case, be you a startup, a large company or an individual.
A small company probably won't have a lawyer on payroll, but certainly, they can still pick up the phone and call one. It'll cost some money, yes, but even small businesses need lawyers for lots of things, so the concept should not be foreign to them.
Now, if you're saying that "legal know-how" means knowing when an issue is important and could have serious ramifications, well, that doesn't require much skill. If you receive a demand from the government of any sort and it's not something you're familiar with, a quick consultation with a lawyer would be prudent. Especially if it just plain sounds wrong.
Now, your lawyer may very well advise you to just give them what they want, but still, asking him was the right thing to do.
A bigger problem is the gag orders that tend to come with these orders, where you can't even tell somebody that you received them. You can generally still consult with a lawyer, but even so, they really do fly in the face of the rights we used to think we have.
Assuming you knew. In practice the worst of this is done under gag order so that nobody knows which services are engaged in this sort of illegal spying. And thanks to the numb nuts that W had installed on Supreme Court, it's even harder to get the constitution enforced than it used to be. Damned activist judges.
Liberal groups were targeted by the IRS as well. Try to keep up.
I have supported the use of records and even following connections from a known terrorist, but this is insane. Pure insanity.
No doubt this is because terrorists/spies have changed tactics, but still this is the wrong way to take solve this.
Terrorist haven't changed tactics. Look at the Boston Bombers, the NSA had been spying on us for years at that point.
Did they know about it? NO.
Did they stop it? NO.
So them spying on everyone is a waste of time if they can't catch any terrorist with it. In fact, they are being the terrorist against their own population by this and other actions they have been doing.
Be seeing you...
In my high school American History class, we mostly learned how white people oppressed some people or other people at various times,
Please explain to me how that is incorrect or even not one of the top 5 most important characteristics of the development of the nation.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
GP is right: Somewhere in the code, the password has to be kept before it is passed on to the hashing function. His point was that the system maintainer might be forced by a spy agency to alter the code so that the password variable is not temporary, but instead logged in persistent storage.
But even disregarding NSA, the link between the authentication system and the UI is usually the weakest. That's where we see attacks like key-loggers, phising scams, attack on secure memory, etc. Again, it proves his point: The password will be known by some part of the system, even if it's temporary, before it is passed on for hashing or validation.
Minor correction, we STILL have those rights, they're just being trampled.
How about being supportive instead of antagonistic?
Be honest with yourself: have you spent more time watching television or being politically active?
This is also a criticism I aim at myself, but the first step is to be honest about the situation. Americans are politically lazy, and we have the government we deserve. I don't think there has been a massive nationwide protest here since the 70s, with the possible exception of the anti-war protests before the invasion of Iraq.
The people who run the show aren't going to give it up because we're complaining about them on the internet. It's not difficult to convince yourself to hang on to millions of dollars and unchecked power when there is no real penalty from the populace.
Sir, there are two passions which have a powerful influence in the affairs of men. These are ambition and avarice -- the love of power and the love of money. Separately, each of these has great force in prompting men to action; but, when united in view of the same object, they have, in many minds, the most violent effects. Place before the eyes of such men a post of honor, that shall, at the same time, be a place of profit, and they will move heaven and earth to obtain it. The vast number of such places it is that renders the British government so tempestuous. The struggles for [profit] are the true source of all those factions which are perpetually dividing the nation, distracting its councils, hurrying it sometimes into fruitless and mischievous wars, and often compelling a submission to dishonorable terms of peace.
And of what kind are the men that will strive for this profitable preeminence, through all the bustle of cabal, the heat of contention, the infinite mutual abuse of parties, tearing to pieces the best of characters? It will not be the wise and moderate, the lovers of peace and good order, the men fittest for the trust. It will be the bold and the violent, the men of strong passions and indefatigable activity in their selfish pursuits. These will thrust themselves into your government and be your rulers. And these, too, will be mistaken in the expected happiness of their situation, for their vanquished competitors, of the same spirit, and from the same motives, will perpetually be endeavoring to distress their administration, thwart their measures, and render them odious to the people.
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1787