QuakeCon 2013: Carmack On Next-Gen Console Hardware

jones_supa writes "QuakeCon 2013 is running full tilt. John Carmack kicked off his speech by addressing the 'elephant in the room,' discussing the arrival of a new console generation to a crowd of attendees at the largely PC-focused event. He's optimistic about the coming console cycle, commenting that it's 'obviously going to be a good thing for gamers, developers, and an excellent thing for AMD.' John said he hasn't run quite enough tests on the hardware for the two consoles, but said they're both 'very close, and very good.' In his traditional long talk (watch on YouTube), Carmack also commented on Microsoft's always-on Kinect, its recently reversed DRM policies for the upcoming Xbox One, the death of optical media, and the state of handheld gaming."

Comments

Little difference anymore between PC/console

[TWiTfan]

Both the PS4 and Xbox One will have s86 architecture, and are essentially just heavily customized PC's (to the point where porting between PC and these consoles will be trivial). So is the distinction between console and PC even meaninful anymore? Aside from the control scheme and openess of software installation, there really isn't much difference.

Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console

[Mike Mentalist]

Nobody buys a console because they find the internal architecture interesting.

Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console

[TWiTfan]

No, but a common architecture will make it a helluva lot easier on developers, which should result in more and better games (which DO matter).

Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console

[Anonymous Coward]

It's essentially been like this ever since the original x-box. The distinction is meaningful because the games are still designed with interface control schemes that target one category or the other. Until consoles are shipped with a mouse/keyboard (never), it will remain as a meaningful distinction.

Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console

[evilRhino]

Yes, it means that the lazy software developers will for many years hence tailor their PC releases (actually console ports) to whatever outdated hardware is set for these next-gen consoles.

Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console

[Anonymous Coward]

A common architecture means that consoles will continue to hold back the progress of cross platform PC games. My current gaming rig is already an order of magnitude more powerful than either the XBone or PS4.

Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console

[Verunks]

It's essentially been like this ever since the original x-box.

not really, the xbox 1 is x86 but the 360, ps3 and wii are ppc based, and the cell in the ps3 is also quite different because of the SPUs

Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console

[spire3661]

Umm bullshit. One of the reasons I bought a PS3 is to run Linux on the exotic hardware.

Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console

[Anonymous Coward]

Better textures is only part of it and would be exactly the type of sloppy porting job I'm talking about. What about higher poly models, more objects on screen, better lighting, more advanced shaders, more accurate physics, smarter AI, larger environments, deeper gameplay and controls optimized for keyboard/mouse?

Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console

[tlhIngan]

There is little difference between the two because the Xbox has effectively killed PC gaming as a seperate category for the publisher's intents and purposes. This leads to a more console oriented market whereas before it was a dual console and PC market, both being pretty different and thus allowing different games to thrive within each.

PC are more powerful though but that difference doesn't really matter anymore because the increase visually it buys isn't all that grand for anything under a $1200 machine.

I think the 90% piracy rate on PCs had something to do with it (piracy on Xbox360 was around 10% for comparison). Then publishers put on DRM and you had the whole SecuROM fiasco that burned out optical drives.

All the Xbox did was show that between the Xbox and PS2, consoles were getting "good enough". The PS3 and Xbox360 basically said that things were pretty much there and consoles were no longer the huge compromises they once were when compared to PCs.

Publishers switched over because you could develop for PCs and load it up with DRM crap, or develop for consoles (which were "good enough") suffer less piracy and get more people paying for it. And people were buying consoles as well because it was more "social" and fun to play on the big screen TV than the little monitor.

What's happened since then is the universal DRM for PC now - Steam. And the proliferation of Intel graphics cards (around the time of the Xbox, people still used external video chips) which basically meant 90% of PCs sold were doing fairly poorly in the graphics department (and NVidia and AMD/ATi saw their marketshare dwindle as people rushed for cheaper Intel graphics).

But, the PC adapted - no longer were AAA titles going to PCs, which meant indie games rose in prominence - a good indie game (most are crap, still) now has a huge hungry base to which people would buy them and play with. And since these were low-budget productions, DRM wasn't really an issue, since piracy tended to help. And these games worked even on piss-poor Intel graphics, which meant huge market. Plus the rise of mobile gaming helped.

Consoles this round took notice and if you're paying attention, you'll see both Sony and Microsoft are trying hard to attract indies to their consoles.

So...

[Type44Q]

Well, I RTFA. So both consoles are virtually the same and Kinect kinda sucks.

Somehow I was hoping for a bit more...

Re:So...

[jeffmflanagan]

Kinect should be very good on the new console. It's pretty good on the 360, allowing games that make you more fit rather than sitting on the couch, but currently has a slight delay in recognition. This is supposed to be significantly reduced in the new console. Obviously it's not a good fit for many games, but for fitness, one-on-one sports, and dance games it's great.

Comments on the poll

[methano]

So we don't do comments on the poll anymore? Is this where I have to come to comment on the poll? What's going on? Maybe I don't think there are enough options. Maybe I have some random Commander Taco comment. What do I do now?

Call me when...

[Anonymous Coward]

Call me when consoles can do:

          * At least 60 FPS on 4k TVs.
          * Allow upgrading of the graphics, and storage.
          * Allow modding of the games.
          * And most of all, allow keyboard and mouse.

PCs can.

The price, however high, is totally dependent on the buyer.
But the point is that 'the buyer' has choices and features on the PC.

Consoles == No choice (locked in).

Re:Call me when...

[TWiTfan]

Allow upgrading of the graphics, and storage.

If they allowed that, consoles would end up a fractured mess just like PC's. It would be giving up one of the biggest strengths the consoles have (their consistency). One of the best things I love about my consoles is never having to check the "system requirements" section to see if my system can handle the game (and how well), or having to adjust sliders to try and get decent fps, or having to figure out where my current graphics card falls on the "minimum requirement vs. optimal requirement" scale, or having to upgrade yet again.

There is something to be said for just seeing "Xbox 360" or "PS4" on the box and knowing with absolute certainty that I can buy it, go home, pop it in the console, and get the exact same experience as everyone else without any worries or upgrades.

Re:well then

[Xest]

I'm not sure, Sony is being more open than ever, a complete u-turn from it's past where it's actually banning online passes and such DRM from it's system and forcing Microsoft to follow suit.

We'll see greater plurality of platforms but increased compatibility with the new console hardware being largely compatible with PC hardware which means we should see far less of the low quality ports of the last generation - porting between the XBox One, PS4, Wii U, and PC will be way easier than between the 360, PS3, Wii, and PC due to the plague of fundamental architecture differences with the existing generation.

Sony realised their biggest fuckup last generation initially was abysmal developer tools and they're working on that.

So yes I think he's spot on, for gamers things are better - less DRM, more platform choices, better quality cross platform titles, easier publishing for indie developers across all platforms now announced. For developers they have better tools, far fewer and much simpler differences between platforms making porting a breeze in comparison and again easier publishing for indie devs.

I'll probably end up buying every platform this generation again (well, I only have the XBox One and PS4 to go anyway) and I'm frankly looking forward to all of them. The XBox One was my only concern but since the DRM u-turn and the announcement of indie publishing and development on consumer consoles, coupled with removal of chief idiot Don Mattrick my concerns have been removed. I was never one for the Kinect/NSA conspiracy theory, really, the NSA isn't going to be able to sneak a live stream of video over my networking hardware without me spotting it and even if they wanted to they could do the same with my webcam or my phone or tablet or plethora of other camera integrated devices that exist nowadays anyway.

It wasn't looking that great a round at first with Microsoft's braindead initial announcement, and the Wii U looking a little pointless but now I have a Wii U and played through Lego City Undercover and Pikmin 3 coupled with the above mentioned policy changes by Microsoft, as well as some decent PC releases at last this last year or so (Diablo 3, Starcraft, Wargame: Airland Battle to name a few) I'm content right now providing nothing stupid happens in the meantime to change that.

What exactly do you think is happening that we should all be concerned about? I still have concerns, I still want way less DRM on PC and yes that includes Valve but things right now are looking better than they were previous gen - the Wii U looks set to have less titles but more quality titles unlike the Wii which was a software crap fest, the PS4 will hopefully be more consumer friendly and is hopefully more polished than the anti-consumer patch-fest that was the PS3, the XBox One is due to run quiet and cooler than the aeroplane sounding radiator that was the 360 and has had to follow Sony's lead in DRM removal and the PC is becoming more competitive in terms of games on offer. I know the fanboys will bitch and moan about opposing systems but if a system has something I like I don't intend to artificially limit myself from not being able to enjoy it based on something as petty as that.

Re:well then

[spire3661]

THe reason i wont buy an Xbox one is that Im tired of Microsoft trying to wring a penny out of EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of the console. That and forcing a camera in my living room aint happening.

Re:well then

[theArtificial]

If you read some of those negative comments, you'll see the majority are about graphical issues. Many of these "reviews" are about as insightful as app store comments saying the app sucks because it doesn't run on their device. How is that objective? "Hey, I stubbed my toe, this stairway sucks. Would not walk again 0/10"