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QuakeCon 2013: Carmack On Next-Gen Console Hardware
jones_supa writes "QuakeCon 2013 is running full tilt. John Carmack kicked off his speech by addressing the 'elephant in the room,' discussing the arrival of a new console generation to a crowd of attendees at the largely PC-focused event. He's optimistic about the coming console cycle, commenting that it's 'obviously going to be a good thing for gamers, developers, and an excellent thing for AMD.' John said he hasn't run quite enough tests on the hardware for the two consoles, but said they're both 'very close, and very good.' In his traditional long talk (watch on YouTube), Carmack also commented on Microsoft's always-on Kinect, its recently reversed DRM policies for the upcoming Xbox One, the death of optical media, and the state of handheld gaming."
Both the PS4 and Xbox One will have s86 architecture, and are essentially just heavily customized PC's (to the point where porting between PC and these consoles will be trivial). So is the distinction between console and PC even meaninful anymore? Aside from the control scheme and openess of software installation, there really isn't much difference.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Somehow I was hoping for a bit more...
So we don't do comments on the poll anymore? Is this where I have to come to comment on the poll? What's going on? Maybe I don't think there are enough options. Maybe I have some random Commander Taco comment. What do I do now?
Call me when consoles can do:
* At least 60 FPS on 4k TVs.
* Allow upgrading of the graphics, and storage.
* Allow modding of the games.
* And most of all, allow keyboard and mouse.
PCs can.
The price, however high, is totally dependent on the buyer.
But the point is that 'the buyer' has choices and features on the PC.
Consoles == No choice (locked in).
I'm not sure, Sony is being more open than ever, a complete u-turn from it's past where it's actually banning online passes and such DRM from it's system and forcing Microsoft to follow suit.
We'll see greater plurality of platforms but increased compatibility with the new console hardware being largely compatible with PC hardware which means we should see far less of the low quality ports of the last generation - porting between the XBox One, PS4, Wii U, and PC will be way easier than between the 360, PS3, Wii, and PC due to the plague of fundamental architecture differences with the existing generation.
Sony realised their biggest fuckup last generation initially was abysmal developer tools and they're working on that.
So yes I think he's spot on, for gamers things are better - less DRM, more platform choices, better quality cross platform titles, easier publishing for indie developers across all platforms now announced. For developers they have better tools, far fewer and much simpler differences between platforms making porting a breeze in comparison and again easier publishing for indie devs.
I'll probably end up buying every platform this generation again (well, I only have the XBox One and PS4 to go anyway) and I'm frankly looking forward to all of them. The XBox One was my only concern but since the DRM u-turn and the announcement of indie publishing and development on consumer consoles, coupled with removal of chief idiot Don Mattrick my concerns have been removed. I was never one for the Kinect/NSA conspiracy theory, really, the NSA isn't going to be able to sneak a live stream of video over my networking hardware without me spotting it and even if they wanted to they could do the same with my webcam or my phone or tablet or plethora of other camera integrated devices that exist nowadays anyway.
It wasn't looking that great a round at first with Microsoft's braindead initial announcement, and the Wii U looking a little pointless but now I have a Wii U and played through Lego City Undercover and Pikmin 3 coupled with the above mentioned policy changes by Microsoft, as well as some decent PC releases at last this last year or so (Diablo 3, Starcraft, Wargame: Airland Battle to name a few) I'm content right now providing nothing stupid happens in the meantime to change that.
What exactly do you think is happening that we should all be concerned about? I still have concerns, I still want way less DRM on PC and yes that includes Valve but things right now are looking better than they were previous gen - the Wii U looks set to have less titles but more quality titles unlike the Wii which was a software crap fest, the PS4 will hopefully be more consumer friendly and is hopefully more polished than the anti-consumer patch-fest that was the PS3, the XBox One is due to run quiet and cooler than the aeroplane sounding radiator that was the 360 and has had to follow Sony's lead in DRM removal and the PC is becoming more competitive in terms of games on offer. I know the fanboys will bitch and moan about opposing systems but if a system has something I like I don't intend to artificially limit myself from not being able to enjoy it based on something as petty as that.
That's the exact same position as Sony. Yet another thing both consoles share in common, I suppose.
Would have been nice for at least one of them to take a stand and say "No, we're not allowing publishers to put always-on requirements on any single-player game on our console, PERIOD." But neither wants to risk pissing off the developers.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Ditto. :( /. sucks! :(
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
That its nice to see this. But Carmack isn't what he was. Nor is quakecon really. Recent ID stuff has'nt shone and the input isn't as valuable as it once was. I kinda have the feeling that ID and Carmack have settled. New upstarts don't have that hunger sated and this is the issue really I have with Carmack - nice guy that he is..
We`re all equal
Can I plug in a keyboard and a mouse?
Playing these kinds of games with a console controller is like assembling a ship in a bottle with long, clumsy tongs. Without the feeling of pride, just irritation.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
When a market provides options then those options will be used for competitive advantage ... always online is a competitive disadvantage, prepare to see it not be a problem. Ubisoft recanted on the PC for good reason ...
Only Blizzard is the exception to prove the rule, they have the Apple like halo power to convince the sheep to ignore the cattleprods ... but they saved me from making a mistake and buying Diablo 3, so all's well that ends well.
Does it occur to you that you probably live in an angry little fake reality, and lash out at more knowledgable people?
I disagree with Carmack's assessment that the handheld gaming market is being consumed by mobile devices. The games available for tablets and phones are VERY inferior compared to handheld gaming devices. There have only been a few worthwhile games for the iPad that I've found such as Tales from Monkey Island, Kingdom Rush and Machinarium are all great games but there are so few good titles to choose from. There are tons of great titles to choose from on 3DS and PS Vita though.
The mobile market is still primarily about casual games like Words with Friends. For games with more depth, you'll be hard-pressed to find that with the exception of a few gems like the ones I mentioned above.
We'll make great pets
Well you may be right, I don't intend to purchase either right at release so hopefully I'll have time to find out how honest they are before I do decide to make my purchase.
In fact, it sounds like here in the UK we're getting both consoles later than people in North America anyway so even if I was going to purchase at UK release that'd give at least a few weeks to see if there's any suggestion of backtracking.
I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now, Sony haven't done much to earn people's trust but I do think there are a few signs suggesting they're turning things around a little and learning from their mistakes not just in terms of their console but in their smartphones, cameras, and other products too to be fair.
So what, the Wii U doesn't exists?
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
John Carmack was a brilliant hardware/software dude in the 1990s and 2000s.
I'm having trouble being certain of his relevance today.
His company produced one of the greatest, genre-introducing games ever ...but what has he done lately?
Cdr Keen - absolutely brilliant
Wolfenstein 3d - 1992 - breakthrough game
Doom 1993? - novel, a big evolutionary step forward.
Quake 1996 - another huge advance in rendering, net coding
Doom 2/Quake 2 were not substantial steps forward. D2 was meh; Q2 I believe did have a rather revolutionarily-open design welcoming modding.
Doom3 - essentially D(1), but on 10 year newer hardware. Gameplay was indistinquishable from D1.
Rage - a flop, from the use of gigantic outdoor textures (whose render-farm requirements pretty much excluded their massive modding fanbase) to a console-focused development, and gameplay that was utterly a repeat of previous iD titles (and other games in the market like Fallout, etc)
More triangles in the scene (and curves, and textures, and lens flare, and 15 different flavors of "pitch black") is more a direct credit to Nvidia/AMD than to Mr Carmack, and I don't see that anything since Quake 2 (arguably, Quake 1) is really a monumental advance forward.
1996-2013...17 years is a helluva dry spell, and the fact he still gets attention speaks more to the reverence the community STILL holds for what he created than anything he seems to be creating.
Don't get me wrong, I still respect the guy, who doesn't? But he's massively rich and doesn't seem to be hungry anymore. He seemed to go off down a "handheld gaming" gopher-hole for a number of years...I guess I just wish he could pull another rabbit out of the hat and make me give a shit about an iD product again.
-Styopa
Carmack did not design it. He did not create art for it. He did not design the gameplay. He wrote the tech-scaffolding that the others in the company created the game around. Atleast try to know something before you go around spewing random comments.
RAGE speaks volumes on Carmack's ability to make games in the 21st century
Good-bye
THe reason i wont buy an Xbox one is that Im tired of Microsoft trying to wring a penny out of EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of the console. That and forcing a camera in my living room aint happening.
Good-bye
You mean the title that won a number of awards? Also, I hope you're not referring to the driver issue which was ATI and their glorious OpenGL implementation. Launch day driver issues are a reoccurring theme for ATI. Carmack makes engines, not games. You're also conveniently ignoring Doom3 and Quake Wars (mega texture tech was used in this, too). While I don't think megatexture was the best choice simply for accessibility, but it's an interesting concept. You may or may not be aware that the delay for RAGE was mainly due to the art teams, most of the engine heavy lifting was completed years prior.
Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
Because to a PC gamer something is VERY obviously different. The specs all the console fanboys are drooling over is for hardware YET to be released. Right now, gaming PC's already surpass those specs. PC specs will continue to evolve, the console specs will be fixed for another half a decade at least if not longer.
Remember, during the hype up of EVERY console launch, people have drooled at trailers and demo's (running often on PC's) and then the games finally launch and it turns out that when you are powering a real game, you can't dedicate all your resources to rendering an amazing demo scene.
I am reminded of commentary by the FEAR developers about how they had to choose for each room how many lights vs AI they wanted. They couldn't have a large number of both. If they wanted to create a big fight in a room with dynamic lights, they couldn't. On a PC, modders often add this, countless projects make games like Fallout and Skyrim harder and more fun by upping the number of enemies (rather then just adding hit points) figuring that gamers who want this have PC's that handle it. On a console you won't see it.
About the only upgrade you can do on a console is to replace the slow as hell HD with an SSD. But PC gamers are already on raid setups. I am only reminded things like loading screens exist when I turn on a console.
My current PC outpaces consoles not yet released. Over the coming years it will rapidly leave console hardware behind until a cheapass dell can run rings out the consoles of this generation.
About the only upside I can see is that now that consoles FINALLY get at least some decent memory (my PC hard 32gb simply because it doesn't cost anything anymore) developers will FINALLY be shifting to 64 bit code and you no longer need to patch PC games to be large address aware.
This generation MIGHT however be rather short IF 4K tv takes off. No way the current hardware can handle that at acceptable frame raters/detail levels. Since 4k tv's are going to launch for less then 1000 before the next generation consoles, it might be intresting to see what is going to happen.
Meanwhile, the modding scene will continue to exclusively cater for the PC crowd and turn average games into brilliant ones for free. And games like "The Last of Us" will sell purely on story because as a shooter it sucks DONKEY BALLS. Do you know what will TRULY revolutionize gaming and making porting trivial?
Allow keyboard/mouse as a standard option on console games. Mind you, Naughty Dog might actually have to create an AI (wait in the first outdoor area with the patrolling soldiers and they will all stop with their back to you, and not respond while you kill them a few meters from each other. But hey, console gamers probably find that a challenge.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Metacritic user score: 4.8
Industry awards mean fuck all when the USERS hate your game.
Good-bye
If you read some of those negative comments, you'll see the majority are about graphical issues. Many of these "reviews" are about as insightful as app store comments saying the app sucks because it doesn't run on their device. How is that objective? "Hey, I stubbed my toe, this stairway sucks. Would not walk again 0/10"
Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
The "No online passes" thing is a new policy, only applies to the PS4, not to the already existing publisher contracts with the PS3.
Sure, sony made a u-turn and is being friendly. But since it's a closed hardware with a close ecosystem, there's no garantee that they won't get back on their usual [evil] track once they've sold enough PS4.
For me to buy a PS4 from them, they need to convince me they'll NEVER go bad. And that I'll get better-than-PC games, of course.
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