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Egyptian Security Forces Storm Pro-Morsi Camps Leaving Nearly 100 Dead
After weeks of protesting the ousting of Morsi (forming encampments in Cairo during that time), the Egyptian security forces forcibly broke up the protesters' camps early this morning. Things quickly turned violent, leaving around one hundred people dead, including at least two journalists. The interim President has also declared an indefinite state of emergency, "allowing security forces to arrest and detain civilians indefinitely without charge." The AP reports that clashes are not isolated to Cairo: "Dozens of people have been killed across Egypt Wednesday in clashes between security forces and supporters of Morsi."
And it's still not a military coup for which reason?
The non-Muslims are divided into many smaller groups so can't form a cohesive opposition to the Muslim majority. The Muslims are well organized and it's easy for their imams to tell everyone to vote for the same guy.
What do you do when the majority want to take away your freedoms?
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Wall Street Journal:Nearly 100 dead.
USA Today: Nearly 100 dead
CNN: 95-200 dead
NBC: At least 95 dead
Fox News: Nearly 100 dead
But don't let reality get in the way of your bizarre conspiracy theory.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
The country as a whole would have been far worse off with the Muslim Brotherhood in charge - for, say, a whole decade. If Egypt is to stay secular, and remain/become a modern country, it is imperative that the country doesn't fall into the hands of the theo-conservatives. So while the deathtoll is tragic, the country would - in the long run - be infinitely, infinitely worse off if governed by the Muslim Brotherhood... I hope that things settle down in Egypt, and that the country's shortlived democracy experiment resumes, and works out better this time. My 2 cents.
Why did the chicken cross the road? Because Elon Musk put an AI chip in its head.
I've heard both sides of this. One says Morsi was the democratically elected leader and ousting him destroys any chance at democracy. The other side says he was setting himself up as dictator. As usual, the truth is probably sloppier than either side would admit. I do know that the military is still enjoying a lot of popularity, so this is likely to continue. I wish the country well, and I hope they get it all sorted out.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
NPR was reporting "at least a hundred dead" several hours ago. I think it's not the US media that is biased so much as you.
Morsi executed his own coup when he granted himself dictatorial powers. That, combined with the fact he was a corrupt and colossal failure who engendered a popular uprising against him, justified the army removing him from power.
Morsi's "democracy" was of the same sort that blessed vast swathes of post-colonial Africa in the 1960s and 70s: One man, one vote, once, followed by brutal dictatorship. Now at least Egypt has a slim chance of having something resembling a real democracy. Under Morsi and his Muslim Brotherhood cronies, there was none.
Usually news stories on this site have at least a faint aroma of tech relevance.
Certain select stories are of such a high importance that everyone wants to talk about them and they appear on this site despite having no relevance to the major purpose.
That's fine, really it is. But I have to ask, where is the dividing line? Will we be seeing articles on Syria? More than 100 people are killed there on a regular basis. Fourty-four were killed in a mosque in Nigeria the other day. Is that significant? A white-ish guy shot an innocent black kid who was definitely not bashing the white-guy's head into the pavement - is that relevant?
I found this very interesting Third Amendment lawsuit (yes, Third amendment) and didn't submit because it was offtopic.
I'm not saying that world events are not important, and this one is pretty high on the importance scale. It's just that I avoid regular news sites and frequent this one because it saves time. Yes, I can skip articles - but note that I can skip articles in Google News and Reddit as well.
I can't find the link, but I remember a chart of "Slashdot readership" that showed a general decline over the last several years.
This leade to a simple question: Is Slashdot better for reporting generic news items, or should it be more about "News for Nerds"?
I think it broke down a little before the army stepped in: (condensed from wikipedia entry on Morsi)
June 2012, election committee announces that Morsi has won the election
Nov. 2012 - Morsi temporarily grants himself unlimited power, including the power to legislate without judicial oversight or review
- hundreds of thousands of Egyptians took to the streets in the 2012 Egyptian protests
Dec 2012 - Morsi annuls his decree of unlimited power, but states that all the effects of his time as de-facto emperor will remain
June 30, 2013 - mass protests erupt calling for the presidents resignation after severe fuel shortages and electricity outages
- the army threatens to step in and build a roadmap for the country if protestors demands aren't met by July 3, while insisting they did not want to rule the country or intend for a military coup.
Morsi was declared unseated on 3 July 2013 by a council consisting of defence minister Abdul Fatah al-Sisi, opposition leader Mohamed ElBaradei, the Grand Imam of Al Azhar Ahmed el-Tayeb, and Coptic Pope Tawadros II
Can't say I've paid enough attention to Egypt since then to be able to say anything about how democracy is likely to fair going forward, but it certainly wasn't doing too well before the army stepped in.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
The election was flawed inthe first place and rushed.
The way it was setup insured there were only 2 choices. Center and left was fractured while the right was united through a single radical muslim. So the rule of 2 applied where you had a former Mabarik henchman corrupt or a radical muslim and no further candidates? If you were Egyptian who would you vote for?
A dictator under corrupt American imperialist or freedom from a religious group who is fanatical, yet was not part of the old boss club?
American anology would be Pat Robertson who promises a Christian theocracy or King George III who promises a return to the old? Wouldnt must of you protest too?
These are what the post Morsi protests to ask the army to remove him were about? Majority of Egyptians oppose Morsi like the majority of Americans and Floridians voted for Al Gore, yet Harris threw out enough ballots to tip it to Bush combined with Electoral College caused the anti Bush bias you see and divided country. Egypt is the same. Divided with one group thinks its legit and the other feels robbed.
Libya is fine and done right
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was not such a great idea. Even when the bad guy wins, it is better to respect the results of a democratic election.
Only a few hours ago NBC was reporting only 15-20. The same with Fox. And NBC and ABC.
At least they seem to be correcting their stories.
The problem with the "always on" news cycle is that fact-checking isn't part of it. They all want to be first to report, so if it's wrong, who cares, we'll patch it later.
It's this kind of speculative journalism that gives conspiracy theorists fuel for the shadowy figures in smokey rooms trope.
More Twoson than Cupertino
The problem is both are true. Morsi was the democratically elected leader, and he was setting if not himself up as a dictator permanent brotherhood rule.
Still unless someone can prove he violated Egypts new Constitution Morsi is the only legitimate leader of that nation. Its not know if Morsi's effort to marginalize opposition parties would have been effective enough to see him re-elected with a public wise to the danger/agenda he posed; it was however to duty of anyone who seriously wanted a democracy in Egypt to wait that long and find out.
This is sham; and long term I am confident it will prove harmful to reform. You can't have a democracy and a precedent for simply removing elected leaders when you are not satisfied with the outcome.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
I'm not sure what the Egyptian Army was to do. The protests against Morsi and the MB were massive, and I think it's well justified to call this a popular uprising.
Here in the West we're largely used to peaceful transfers of government and political parties, despite some ideological differences, tending to stick to the middle ground on most issues. While there are certainly protest movements, we haven't had them at the fever pitch that has been seen in the Arab Spring. For better or for worse we still, at least nominally, believe in the political process as the appropriate channel for change.
In countries like Egypt, where democracy has never really existed, and the democratic institutions that are there are more shams or for show than functional governmental and political entities, there is little or no civic notion of political process. A strong man falls, another takes his place. That seems to have been what Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood had decided, that somehow the uprising against Mubarak was simply another iteration of the same old process, and now Morsi could take his rightful place as King of the Mountain, inflict his movement's policies and his political allies on the populace by tossing out everyone from school principles to the head of a symphony orchestra with Muslim Brotherhood members.
So, for me, while I think it's troubling that the Army again asserted itself into the political process, the problem seems to be a distinct lack of political process. Clearly there are serious flaws in the constitution that was promulgated, and ultimately few checks on the powers of the Egyptian President and his cronies. This is something of a reset, but whether it will produce better results or not is difficult to say. One thing that has happened is that the Egyptian opposition groups and parties realize that their disunity is what delivered Morsi and the MB the last election, and that if they're serious about a change in the way the government works, they're going to have to stop the internecine warfare.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
The situation isn't nearly as simple as you imply. Morsi won the election then suspended parliament and set out on a year-long agenda to usurp power and push though the Muslim Brotherhood's view of Egypt's future, which is far more religious than most Egyptians want. I know that we in the west expect our elected politicians to break most of their campaign promises and then do what they had secretly planned to do all along as soon as they are in office, but the Egyptions weren't having it right after a revolution.
The army does what it does for many reasons, in parallel. I doubt that they are purely altruistic, but I believe they were sincere in enforcing the will of the people. They only removed Morsi after millions of people had protested against the president for weeks, with more and more people coming out every day. A true democracy should have some way to kick someone out of office if he or she completely disregards their mandate. This obviously isn't it, but it's what many of the people wanted, and Morsi wasn't about to hold a referendum to see.
Of course, the current situation is not good. Morsi supporters were glad that he was a champion of the Muslim Brotherhood. Egypt was already a silently divided nation before this came into the open. The conservative religious factions would like to gradually move Egypt towards Sharia law and Islamic theocracy. Others, especially among the youth, would like Egypt to embrace more aspects of Western culture.
Egypt is one of the more modern Islamic nations. The country is relatively open to the West and there is a great deal of tourism in the country that exposes them to Western culture. They are also very active online with relatively little censorship. I believe that the majority of Egyptians want to see the nation continue in this direction. This is good for the rest of the Western world as well. Egypt's culture has considerable influence on the rest of the Arabic world due to their prominent media industries. It is one of the reasons that people who wish to study Arabic are told to learn Egyptian Arabic. It is the most widely understood modern Arabic dialect. As such, if Egypt breaks away from the influence of religious fundamentalism then it's a win for everyone except the fundies.
So, what can they do at this point? If most people were upset with Morsi for abandoning his mandate and acting as an agent of the Muslim Brotherhood, then he should clearly not be in power. How then do you appease those who want him re-instated? They have been protesting and creating problems for over 5 or 6 weeks now, in the middle of the capital. There is no perfect solution. Unfortunately, the army has turned to force and this will mar everything else that they have done, but I still believe that supporting the will of the people was one of their main reasons for entering the fray, and there are not many options on the table when you are dealing with violent mobs with armed members.
At this point only time will tell where Egypt goes next, but with Morsi at the helm they were not on their way to true democracy. Ultimately, when you have such large opposing factions, true democracy may be impossible.
oh yeah... we're all for "spreading Democracy", but then get our panties in a bunch when they democratically elect "DEATH TO THE GREAT SATAN".
This is a military coup against a legitimately elected government.
The fact that 'merkins are askeered of the Muslim Brotherhood is beside the point.
Dude, tough titties that your anti-American Islamist heros got booted by the will of the Egyptian people themselves. But only after they pissed off most Egyptians by shutting down legislatures and other means of usurping power.
I know it's hard for your little brain to believe, but the US is not the source of all evil in the world.
Also, I'm curious. Since Islamists tend to execute gays under sharia and you're supportive of Islamists who want to impose sharia, is it OK for Christians to simply oppose gay marriage? Or do you express your support for radical Islamists out of childish, reflexive, unthinking, downright-fucking-reactionary anti-Americanism?
June 30, 2013 - mass protests erupt calling for the presidents resignation after severe fuel shortages and electricity outages
Understatement of the year.
It was arguably the largest protest in the history of the world. Some claims are as much as 14 million people, nearly 17% of the Egyptian population.
To put that in perspective, 17% of the American population is more than 50 million people.
If 50 million Americans were protesting in the streets demanding that Obama (or Bush) to be removed from office, and as a response Obama (or Bush) then held a 5 hour television broadcast declaring that he will not only not be leaving office but that additionally that the constitution will never apply to him, then I damn well expect the American military to do the same thing.
"His name was James Damore."
That's easy to say in a country where the most recently elected leader won't be in power indefinitely.
Democracy is a subset of freedom, not the other way around. Democracy has shown many times to collapse into dictatorship, especially with new ones.
Democracy is the tool free people use. Democracy does not create, and sure as hell is not synonymous with, freedom.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
I'd expect a SS agent to cap him on camera.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
There was little to no chance of Morsi becoming a dictator.
Are you insane? Morsi fired the heads of the military and then declared himself and anything he did above the law.
He was trying to shift over all control of the military to himself, and also declared himself head of the courts and police...
He was utterly a dictator. Note that the military did not step in UNTIL the clear will of the people was evidenced in massive protests against Morsi - and even then the military gave Morsi a chance to back off the power grab, which he would not do.
What the military has done is protected democracy from a monster, and acted only on the will of a people. Someone like you would rather see Egypt fall into a thousand years of darkness as millions died, in order to protect something that was no longer there. Disgusting and utterly stupid.
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