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Ask Slashdot: Experiences Working At a High-Profile Game Studio?

Posted by Soulskill on from the hope-you-enjoy-crunch dept.

msheekhah writes "I have a friend who, when he gets out of college, has been promised a job at well known electronics company with a salary around $70k. However, he wants to instead go work for Blizzard or some other game company as a game programmer. I've read enough on here and on other tech websites to know that he should take the job he's been offered. Can you share with me your experiences so I can give him real life examples to convince him to take this job? If your experience is contrary to mine, I'd appreciate that input as well."

21 of 189 comments (clear)

  1. What does the job entail? by mwvdlee · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Game development sounds fun because games are fun.
    Like how being a prostitute sounds fun because having sex is fun.

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    1. Re: What does the job entail? by Chelloveck · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Tru dat. I've worked at two large game companies. Developing games is sweatshop work. But a guy's gotta follow his dreams! If he's already been offered a job he'll be able to find another one if a gaming gig doesn't work out. Now's the time, when he's young and relatively responsibility-free.

      --
      Chelloveck
      I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
    2. Re: What does the job entail? by slart42 · · Score: 4, Informative

      After reading several comments that game industry jobs are all sweatshop work, I thought I might share my (different) experience. I work at Unity, so not exactly a games company, but game industry anyways. I've been here for quite a few years no and have always been (and I still am) very happy about my work. While everybody has done overtime work to get urgent fixes done at some time or other, this is not the rule, and we are far from the working conditions in many places described here. The development team has a great culture, we get to work on exciting stuff, and we get plenty of opportunities to try out things which interest us -- as a rule, similar to Google's "20% time", we have FAFF (fridays are for fun) to work on pet projects, as well as regular Hack Weeks, were the whole dev team is brought in to one location to form teams to try new ideas. It's fun.

      If you're interested, check out http://unity3d.com/jobs/ - but then, I guess your chances of being hired for an engineering position when fresh out of colleges are somewhat slim, unless you have done some really awesome stuff besides your education. But that will not be any different in any of the other larger companies in the industry.

    3. Re: What does the job entail? by eulernet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm an ex-game programmer, and what you say is not supported by my experience.

      Developing a framework is totally different than releasing games.

      When you work on a framework, you spend a lot of time on the same project, by incrementally adding new features.
      Quality is very important, so you must spend most of your time building quality, by writing tests and writing optimized code.
      You also have direct contact with your customers.

      When you program games, what is important is the delivery date, especially in large game companies.
      Quality is not really important, and all the conception is already done before the game started, so there is not a lot of place for innovation.
      Porting games is mostly what large game companies do, since you cannot rely on a single console to earn money.

      And when you write games nowadays, your job as a coder is mostly using libraries, because a game is too much work if rewritten from scratch.
      The "fun" part as a coder is to write your own routines, so that you master everything, when you rely on a library, you always expect bugs.
      And the "fun" part as a gamer is to fine-tune the game, and this is the most tedious task !

    4. Re: What does the job entail? by SirSlud · · Score: 3, Informative

      I work for one of the top 5 developers on console games, as a programmer. Are there crunch times? Yes. Do you get comp time? Yes. I'm going to be taking 35 days vacation this fall. The work itself is vastly more interesting and personally rewarding (to me) than working on business intelligence software, which is probably where I'd be otherwise.

      You get what you put into it, and you also get what you put up with. I don't recommend that anybody sacrifice their quality of life simply to be in games, and certainly some studios are worse than others, but in making games for 9 years, if you can put up with a some crunch every year or two, it can be a really fun job. Just put up resistance if you're being treated unfairly (80 hour work weeks? Never.) .. once you get some experience, you can move around. The entire industry is a game of musical chairs, so you should be able to find something at your 'pressure' level. Some people will put up with those insane for the privilege of working on a GTA title, but there is plenty of middle ground.

      And as somebody else pointed out above, just because you like playing games (or even making them for yourself) doesn't necessarily mean you'll like making them in the AAA game space. I just wrapped up a title where the credits take about 40 minutes to watch, so there are lots of considerations in terms of how much time you're willing to put in, how much individual credit you're looking for, etc.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
  2. Not me but friends by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have a few friends who worked for the bigger companies and their experiences were pretty uniformly miserable. One worked directly for a big company and even though he could make opengl dance they had him working on what was basically build scripting. The others worked for game companies that did the porting of the larger games to the lower tier platforms such as the DS. These companies put a huge amount of effort into glamour (highly photogenic workspaces) but were just thankless sweatshops with the few owners being the only ones making any money.

    That said, their resumes now have a golden game programming glow. So they have been able to go out into the indy/startup world and be treated like kings. Way way better than some third rate "game programming" degree or diploma program.

    1. Re:Not me but friends by interval1066 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have a friend who worked for Zynga during the high-flyin' days; she worked on Farmville. Said it was a sweat shop and the management were terrible overlords. Same thing from another friend at EA, again, during EA's salad days. But then I have another friend who works for Valve and he says its great there. So, I guess you kind of have to get lucky. As for the comment above that goes along the lines of "he's lucky to have an offer at $70K", that seems kind of low. If he knows GL native code or ActiveX, either managed or native, he doesn't have to take that offer, he can get more from someone else.

      --
      Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
    2. Re:Not me but friends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I completely disagree, coming right out of college and getting 70k is actually damn good. He has no experience and yet they're willing to pay him that? I suppose it depends on which city he is at, though. But, even in expensive L.A. I know developers who make around that who have experience. Though, I suppose it could be potentially low. Just remember, a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush. He could apply at Blizzard, get turned away, and then lose the offer and end up sitting on his ass for a year which leaves a big gaping hole in your resume and makes you nigh unemployable. Take the job, and apply at Blizzard. If Blizzard accepts, be a douche and jump ship. Companies have no loyalty to us and can drop our asses at any time for no good reason and they often do, we should have no loyalty to them either. If Blizzard does not accept, you're still making money in the interim and getting great experience. Pad that resume, and you'll look better and better to future employers. If you end up staying at the company every year you get a 4% to 5% raise (assuming you're doing well), after a decade that adds up. Not to mention you'll have benefits in the meantime; insurance (you may be young, but anyone can be hit by a bus or experience health problems), 401k w/ matching (e.g. free money), life insurance (if you met a girl and made her your wife in college and she's having your baby, this is handy), etc.

  3. First rule of working by kschendel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's really simple:
    If you have a job, you can get a job.
    If you don't have a job, getting a job is harder.

    "Promised" is an elusive word, but assuming that the $70K offer comes thru, why not take it unless he has a gaming company offer in hand? which I assume he doesn't. It's always a good thing to be able to afford housing and food while looking for the job of one's choice.

    Besides, he might be surprised, and like the promised job. (Or, it might be a small step above a Siberian work camp. One never really knows about these things until one tries it; but of course the same goes for the "dream" job at a gaming company!)

  4. he should pursue by csumpi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    the path that makes him happy.

  5. It's high pressure and high risk by Drewdad · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Based on the experiences of some colleagues, I've avoided getting involved with gaming companies. First, there's tremendous pressure any time a new release goes out. Developers, admins, etc. are all expected to be available around the clock (with many choosing to sleep at the office) for weeks. Second, game popularity is very fickle. Working on a game that loses popularity? Pink slip. Some people view game studios as sexy and edgy, which is fine. Young, single people can afford to take risks that people with families and mortgages just can't afford.

    1. Re:It's high pressure and high risk by Immerman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      >Young, single people can afford to take risks that people with families and mortgages just can't afford.

      Indeed. If his dream is truly to work for a game company and he can get an acceptable offer out of college perhaps he should take it. It may go well or badly, but he may never again have as much freedom to chase a dream for the hell of it as he has now. Better to chase it and be disappointed by what he discovers than spend his life dreaming about what might have been.

      On the other hand if he doesn't have a gaming offer in hand I'd start chasing the offer now, and go for the electronics job if he can't make any headway there. I imagine even gaming companies prefer candidates with a proven work history. Just not so much of one that they demand a reasonable compensation package.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  6. Take the decent job for a few years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Having left Blizzard in the last year I can say that it was once a really awesome place to be! Just not any more sadly. The politics have stunted too many people's ability to get things done. On top of that revenue is down so the idea of "low base pay with more from profit sharing" doesn't make up for how overly stressful things are. That said, working somewhere where the other "perks" of the Blizzard Culture aren't apparent will make working for a game studio a bit better; just have a decent savings account first and be ready to work twice as much for half the pay you used to get. From my friends that decided to say in the industry many are going to indie developers or starting their own small game companies so they can get back to what they really wanted to do in the first place: make games! On my end I've just created a bit of a "gamer culture" on the engineering teams I've started since I left to get the best of both worlds. My suggestion would really be to take the decent paying job for a few years while making some indie games on the side to make sure that they really want to make games for a living.

  7. It's Simple, Really. by FSWKU · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Does he have a piece of paper in his hand from this mythical company that clearly states they are offering him a job and what the compensation will be? Does he have one from Blizzard? The correct choice is whichever of these two he can say "yes" to.

    If your friend doesn't have this dubious "$70k as a college graduate" offer/promise on paper, signed, and in his possession , then such a position doesn't exist. Period. If he believes otherwise, he's gonna have a bad time.

    --
    "So after all this, you make my case for me. To end this stalemate, you must die..."
  8. let him make his own mistakes by Njovich · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The guy isn't exactly wanting to go into drugs or some such. Nothing good will come from trying to interfere with him. If he never starts at the game industry he will always keep some romantic vision of how it would be.

    Going into game dev can be a tough choice, but if that's what he wants to do there isn't much you can do about it.

    Let him work it out himself if it is for him, he will find out the reality soon enough after starting there. Also, if he can get 70k offers now, I'm sure he will be okay after a year at a gamestudio finding a new job too.

  9. be wary by alx · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I had an offer from Bioware that I ended up passing on because I had another offer from another company to do full time iOS development which is what I really wanted to do. A friend of mine ended up taking the same job at Bioware that I had been offered. I left a year later. His experiences can best be summed up in a single line from a chat he and I had one time -- "they cancelled Christmas" ... he had been working 80hr weeks for almost a year by that point. I felt like I dodged a bullet.

    If writing games is your passion, and you can't live without it, and you don't mind doing it ALL the time, then that is the only time I would say it's okay to work for a games company. If you do, try to find an indy shop that works a sustainable pace. The other downside is that the people working there were very grouchy and mean. Not a happy place.

    1. Re:be wary by turbidostato · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "If writing games is your passion"

      Ask him first how many games has he already written.

      If the answer is "nil", then his passion is not writing games. He only thinks so, probably over the wrong information and for the wrong reasons.

  10. 11 year veteran by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    11 year veteran here - I've worked in a number of roles at an independent studio (as a programmer), and my advice to anyone wanting to make games is this: it's hard bloody work, which doesn't pay that much, and you'd be better off working on your own games in your own time. Very rarely do you get to work on games that you are interested in, the last project I was on was a Disney game with a MASSIVE budget. It was hell on earth and I got pretty down about my job - to the point where I considered quitting without having secured another job first. On the plus side - I have gained experience in working with large, complex code bases, and worked under tight deadlines with hardly any budget. I've accepted a programming job outside of games, and I'm counting down the days until I leave.

  11. I'm making those mistakes right now, myself. by E-Sabbath · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Well, I'm sort of in the same situation. Except that in my case, my friends and I decided to start our own company. We're building a MMO. No publishers.

    We're not just out of college, we're veterans in a number of fields, and this is my point.
    Education is transferable. If you know how to code, you can start in a good job, and move over later. Or, even better, do your own game. If it was art, I'd say, join a studio. But for coding? Sadly, you're replaceable. But you can replace them as well.

    If you've got a good offer, go for it, but don't kill yourself. Go for the job, spend a year or two, and if you don't like it, move on, then come back as a more experienced person, and get back in higher in the food chain. Just out of college is a great time to try out something risky, that looks great on the resume.

    But don't let them abuse you. Work hard, work well, but you are not a chew toy. The one thing most people right out of college miss, though, is that every project has to be finished and polished to be done. The stuff you do for class is under too tight a deadline to actually finish, you just get it working. This stuff, follow through on. Ask your boss about what I mean, if you get the job - knowing to ask that question can mark you as someone with a future.

    I've had some good education from the following books:

    Making Fun is a book about how a game is put together, the various jobs that exist and how they relate.
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007RV3UTS/ref=oh_d__o08_details_o08__i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Interactive Entertainment is a book about the life cycle of a game, and the various fields of gaming that exist.
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0041T4HG4/ref=oh_d__o07_details_o07__i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Level Up! is a book on game design. Once you know about what a game is, and how it's put together, this is pretty handy to dig style with.
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0046REX10/ref=oh_d__o02_details_o02__i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    They're all a little generic, but they're also solid starting points.
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0046REX10/ref=oh_d__o02_details_o02__i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    (For those curious about my personal project, it's a spiritual successor to City of Heroes. The MAN shut it down. Well, we can make our own game! With blackjack! And... forget the blackjack. With superheroes! And costumes! And all kinds of awesome stuff. And the best part is that in the ten years since CoH launched, the industry's come a long way - we can do all kinds of crazy stuff now.)
    ( www.missingworldsmedia.com if you're interested. )

  12. Use reason.... by joocemann · · Score: 3, Informative

    ... take the bird in the hand (the job offered).... then work at the company making money and gaining reputable XP while trying to apply to blizzard and get in there....

    Nobody is going to think less of you for working in your field. If anything, the xp will only help validate your friends' skillset and give more power to the application to blizzard.

    Also, who the hell considers turning down a job offer in this economy? I had to win a grant to get my job.

  13. Re:Stop Interfering by Sesostris+III · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Maybe you should let your friend do what the hell they want and stop being such a busybody? You're not his mom. Maybe the electronics job would suck, maybe the gaming job would suck, you're not in a position to judge.

    He's a friend. Do you have friends? Do you care about your friends? Do your friends care about you? If you saw a friend making what you think might be a mistake, wouldn't you perhaps talk to them. If your friends saw you making what to them might be a mistake, wouldn't you want them to talk to you?

    Of course, if all you have is acquaintances, then, hey, you're not their mom, what do you care if they make a mistake. (and hey, they're not your mom, what do they care about you if you make a mistake).

    Personally, I can understand where the Original Poster is coming from. He's a friend to his friend. It's what friends do.

    --
    You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough. - Blake