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Uncle Sam Finally Wants To Hear From Us On Digital Copyright Law?

NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "Can it be true? The US government claims it really wants to hear from us on the subject of how copyright law needs to be modified to accommodate the developing technology of the digital age? I don't know, but the US Patent & Trademark Office (which btw has nothing to do with administering copyright) says 'we really want to hear from you' and the Department of Commerce Internet Policy Task Force wrote a 122-page paper (PDF) on the subject, so they must really mean it, right? But I couldn't find the address to which to send my comments, so maybe that was an oversight on their part."

33 of 183 comments (clear)

  1. Don't do it! by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's a trap!

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    1. Re:Don't do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      So I went and said something anyway. All I got was:

      Your comment was marked as spam and will not be displayed.

      It apparently was too wordy. Their attention span doesn't last past 1000 characters, when the question is 122 pages to start with.

    2. Re:Don't do it! by ibwolf · · Score: 2

      It's a trap!

      Indeed. I suspect that what they really want is to be able to say that they consulted the public without it being a bald-faced lie. That fact the only public input they may use is one they already agreed with will not be mentioned.

    3. Re:Don't do it! by Mashdar · · Score: 2

      Marijuanna is still illegal everywhere in the USA by federal law, and the DEA (federal agency) performs raids and busts on otherwise licensed, tax paying, and law abiding operations.

      Calling marijuanna a Schedule I drug in the first place is a joke. Funny, since it was in the pharmicopia prior to prohibition (Schedule I drugs are supposed to have no recognized medical value), and is impossible to overdose... For reference, heroin is classified Schedule I, but cocaine and meth are only Schedule II.

      DOJ/DEA way off base without even getting into states' rights arguements.

    4. Re:Don't do it! by Hatta · · Score: 2

      Here's my comment:

      Abolish copyright. Supply and demand make copyright completely unworkable in the digital age. When the marginal cost of a good is zero, the marginal price of that good will be zero. You cannot legislate around basic laws of economics. It's time for artists to find other ways to monetize their time and skills.
      The only alternative to aboliton of copyright will be a war on copyright infringement that will destroy our liberties. And the copyright hawks will still lose, just like they lost the war on drugs.

      We'll see if it gets approved by the moderator.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    5. Re:Don't do it! by tragedy · · Score: 3, Informative

      Pharma conspiracy nutters. Heroin has never been prescribed, nor has marijuana.

      You might be correct, but only because prescriptions weren't required for them at the time. I should point you to this article. I has some interesting pictures of ads for heroin, mostly for children. I'm not sure if I should be typing "Heroin (R)" since it was a registered Bayer trademark, but they've let it lapse, plus the term has become a generic, so I don't think I need to.

    6. Re:Don't do it! by mcgrew · · Score: 2

      Check the polls, 52% want it legal. The numbers have been steadily rising for 40 years, in 1969 it was 13% and 33% just ten years ago.

      Here's a bunch of links.

  2. Of course they want your input by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just like in the recent Obama said in his speech about NSA operations, the government is really concerned about public opinion and very much wants to know the best way to make you comfortable getting screwed. After all, people being uncomfortable with getting screwed is the biggest impediment in a democracy for advancing to the next level of screwing them over. So your feedback is important to them.

    1. Re:Of course they want your input by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We need to start hacking the political system. Politicians already do it with their spin doctors, but we can do the same to fight back.

      It's about controlling the narrative. We need to find ways of making it almost impossible to argue against our point of view. Making a convincing case is not enough, we need to make it impossible for anyone else to oppose it.

      Think about the way terrorism and children are exploited to this end. No-one can be against safety from evil terrorists. You are either with us or against us, nonsense like that. No-one can be against child safety either, or for greater sexualization of children, or on the side of child molesters.

      We need something along those lines, and we need to make it the narrative, the frame for every debate.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:Of course they want your input by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You'd think the millions we blow on this crap while not even providing proper universal healthcare would be enough, we fight boogymen while people die right now due to lack of medical treatment.

    3. Re:Of course they want your input by c0lo · · Score: 2

      Just like in the recent Obama said in his speech about NSA operations, the government is really concerned about public opinion and very much wants to know the best way to make you comfortable getting screwed. After all, people being uncomfortable with getting screwed is the biggest impediment in a democracy for advancing to the next level of screwing them over. So your feedback is important to them.

      Nothing new. Nothing to indicate the results will be different either.

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
  3. Is this... by gigaherz · · Score: 2

    Another one of those articles with question-titles that can be answered with a simple "No."?

  4. weve had answers for a decade. by nimbius · · Score: 2

    Is the government so up-to-its-tits in lobbyists it cant complete a single google search without a campaign contribution? Here are a few license models that might work for some, hell in fact all, digital media in the 21st century.
    BSD
    GPL
    copyleft
    LGPL3
    MIT
    Creative Commons
    the list goes on but at no point does it include the whistling clown-car that is DMCA or the iron boot of DRM. copyright in the 21st century is premised on the idea that expiration encourages innovation and that on some level, we all benefit and advance greatly from sharing as opposed to consolidating the knowledge and power amongst a cloistered few. yeah, its a radical departure for some but discourages cashcowing a product or franchising something to death (the Matrix series anyone?)

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:weve had answers for a decade. by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is about copyright, i.e. ownership of a work, not the licensing models. The main issues seem to be the duration of that ownership (which is pretty much defined as being as long as necessary for keeping Mickey Mouse out of the public domain), and the penalties for violating copyright law. Changing copyright law would affect those Open licenses as well: if we reduce the duration of intellectual ownership to a term of 20 years, then works released under BSD, GPL, CC etc would revert to the public domain after 20 years as well (free them up for commercial use and removing the requirement of attribution, for instance)

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    2. Re:weve had answers for a decade. by ibwolf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      if we reduce the duration of intellectual ownership to a term of 20 years, then works released under BSD, GPL, CC etc would revert to the public domain after 20 years as well (free them up for commercial use and removing the requirement of attribution, for instance)

      And this would be bad how exactly?

      If some company wants to take 20 year old FOSS code and build something on top of it that they can sell, more power to them. Note that they wont be able to incorporate ANY updates made to that code base in the last 20 years, so it is not as if any software project that began more than 20 years will become public domain, just he oldest versions.

      After all, the 20 year old code will still be public domain, so others can use the same codebase to build a (possibly free) alternative. And if there really is a market for something built on top of the old code, someone was dropping the ball during the 20 year copyright period.

    3. Re:weve had answers for a decade. by pipedwho · · Score: 2

      yeah, its a radical departure for some but discourages cashcowing a product or franchising something to death (the Matrix series anyone?)

      It's a pity they never made sequels to that movie. Maybe they will one day, as that setting is ripe for some brilliant story telling.

  5. found the address by wbr1 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Dev.null@uspto.gov

    --
    Silence is a state of mime.
  6. Simpsons did it! by RenHoek · · Score: 4, Funny

    Homer: “Don't worry, baby, the tube'll know what to do.”

    He takes her form, puts it into a canister, and sends it through the pneumatic tube system. The canister takes a wild ride through the tube system, eventually being deposited... outside, where a nearby beaver collects it and adds it to a dam built entirely of message canisters.

  7. Suggestion List by maroberts · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes we recognize artists have the right to be paid for their work, but....

    1) Please reduce the absurd duration of copyright. We can argue about exactly how long, but anything above 30 years is definitely absurd. Also copyright would be better if anything above 20 years required a substantial payment.

    2) Copyright should be non-transferable and belong to the artist producing the work.

    3) Please ensure that all private copying from media to media for personal use only is regarded as Fair Use.

    4) Commercial Piracy should attract large fines, however small personal acts of piracy should be penalized in the region of a few thousand dollars TOTAL, not several tens of thousands for each work. As an example, Jammie Thomas was definitely guilty, but a maximum fine of about $5,000 would be seen as far more reasonable especially as she made no significant financial gain from the act.

    Anything else?

    --

    Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
    Karma: Chameleon

    1. Re:Suggestion List by Yaotzin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree on all points and this is really all that is necessary to fix copyright. The original intent was to protect the creators of artistic works and at the same time give them incentive to keep creating. It was never this monstrosity that we call copyright today. Instead, the ridiculous time periods granted is hardly an incentive to continue creating but rather to create one or two smash-hits and then retire. I won't even go into the corporate mess that has arisen.

      A comparison I've been thinking about is comparing with pharmaceutical patents. The pharmaceutical industry is super-high risk as the average pharmaceutical costs around $1b to bring to the market and yet 9/10 candidate drugs fails to get there. Even getting a drug out on the market is no guarantee for success. The patent right is only twenty years because pharmaceuticals are seen as essential to the general well-being of society, but it works. So why the hell should an artist (and then a corporation after the death of the artist) should have 70 years to collect profit when the risk is nowhere near as high? Not to mention that the artist is unlikely to be alive for that entire period of time, or as in the States be dead for 70 years.

      --
      Error: No error occurred
    2. Re:Suggestion List by ibwolf · · Score: 2

      2) Copyright should be non-transferable and belong to the artist producing the work.

      This would make collaborative works (e.g. film and tv) pretty much impossible. After all, who is the 'artist' behind a movie like From Russia With Love?

      Is it the original author Ian Flemming? (Hardly, although the story is mostly lifted from the book)
      Is it the screenwriter Richard Maibaum? (Again, hardly, he based is work on Flemmings, and Johanna Harwood and Berkely Mather both contributed to the work).
      Is it the director Terence Young? (Directors often get the 'Film by' credit and are hugely important, but they aren't the sole 'artist' involved)
      What about the actors? (Surely they are artist and make direct contributions to the eventual production)
      Then there is the musical score.
      Set design.
      Etc.

      Without the ability to have these artists producing work-for-hire, it would be next to impossible to produce either movies or tv. The idea that you would have to go to ALL of these people every time you wanted to license the film for a new market/format etc. is ludicrous.

    3. Re:Suggestion List by TheSkepticalOptimist · · Score: 2

      Copyrights should be transferable.

      If you create a body of work, you have a right to sell the copyright to someone else. I mean its like saying if you personally build a house then nobody else can ever own it which is absurd.

      Realize there is a whole market of artists who create works for commercial purposes. They write music for shows, commercials, movies, etc and are not considered "mainstream" artists that would otherwise have songs on the radio or perform in concerts. Their only source of income is to get licences and royalties from selling their music commercially, and often this also includes selling the copyright so the buyer can use the body of work as they see fit.

      Also for duration of copyright. If I wrote a hit in my 20's I think I deserve to still profit off that body of work in my 70's And then I think that I have a right to "will" my body of work to my children or grandchildren. Again if I build a house I don't think it should be destroyed after 30 years, or someone can walk in and take it over just because its old.

      --
      I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
    4. Re:Suggestion List by bzipitidoo · · Score: 2

      small personal acts of piracy should be penalized in the region of a few thousand dollars TOTAL

      Doesn't go far enough. "personal acts" of copying should be 100% legal, and should be encouraged. Being able to share with friends is a huge public good that these property rights trolls have been trying to persuade the public is unethical, immoral, unAmerican, and Bad for Business. Of course it's bad for business! It's bad for the business of rent seeking. They've got many people more than half persuaded that data should be treated the same as physical property. It's a simple way to think of the matter, and for that reason holds great appeal. But it's wrong. The physical is scarce. Data is not. The term "intellectual property" should never have gained such acceptance amoung the public.

      Jammie Thomas should never have been dragged into court, never been treated as some kind of big time criminal. Her biggest crime seems to be that she dared to fight back. They escalated the charges and penalties to ludicrous levels, trying to make an example of her. It's similar to what happened to Aaron Swartz. All they really accomplished was making idiots of themselves. Revealed a bit of the complex web of "campaign contributions" and other money machine details and corruption that have entirely too much of a hold on our govenrment. Few around here have much respect for the justice system, not when they get such crucial distinctions between property rights and copyrights so very wrong.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
  8. No contact mail? Don't worry... by Bearhouse · · Score: 3, Funny

    The NSA will forward it for you...without you needing to even send it!

  9. The best way? by wertigon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    1. Stop trying to control the non-commercial filesharing. The damages to creators are, at worst, about as big as trespassing on private property that isn't near a house or is actively exploited - like say, a forest. The positive effects, meanwhile, are huge and not to be neglected. Instead focus on the commercial filesharing efforts and the people making money on protected works without sharing those profits.

    2. Lots of works can no longer be used because their right holders cannot be found (orphan works). In order to solve this problem, copyrighted works should be registered or face a very short copyright term on e.g. five years after publication. An extension of this idea is that economic copyright should only be allowed as long as the copyrighted works do have a substantial value, therefore we have a yearly fee of 2^x where x is the number of years a copyrighted work has been published. This ensures orphaned works become public domain, but it also ensures that copyrighted works that no longer have any commercial value also falls into public domain.

    3. Copyright terms either need to be severely reduced, or there needs to be an exception clause for archivists, museums, libraries and the like to let them complete and create as complete collections of works as possible, lest our entire culture from the fifties and onward disappear.

    Just a couple of ideas to get started...

    --
    systemd is not an init system. It's a GNU replacement.
  10. They genuinely want to hear from us ... by DavidClarkeHR · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Absolutely! I trust the government to put my best interests first. They genuinely want to hear from people on this issue.

    In completely unrelated, totally not relevant news, the NSA just found out about the hundred flowers campaign, which I support. I mean, hundreds of flowers? That can't be bad in ANY way.

    The government believes, and I quote, that "The policy of letting a hundred flowers bloom and a hundred schools of thought contend is designed to promote the flourishing of the arts and the progress of science".

    --
    - Nec Impar Pluribus, or so I'm told.
    1. Re:They genuinely want to hear from us ... by TWiTfan · · Score: 2

      They do want to hear from "the people." They just happen to define "the people" are corporations, wealthy individuals, and big campaign donors.

      --
      The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
  11. You can send them your comment by jones_supa · · Score: 4, Informative

    But I couldn't find the address to which to send my comments, so maybe that was an oversight on their part.

    You can find the comment form in the We Want to Hear from You article.

    Use it.

  12. Simple solution by TheSkepticalOptimist · · Score: 2

    I don't see why digital content is not treated in the same way as the physical media it replaced.

    I think I have a right to play my digital content on ANY device I see fit. Realize that this means all these "walled gardens" should be illegal. If you equate what is happening today with digital content vs physical media, it would be like Walmart creating their own version of DVD and then Best Buy creates their own version of DVDs. A Walmart DVD would not be playable and a Best Buy DVD player, and vice versa. NOBODY would have tolerated that bullshit so why are people happy with buying iTunes content that is not playable on an Android device?

    Also with physical media I always had the right to lend the content to a friend or family member. But realize that while it is lended out that I no longer have access to it. I think it should be perfectly acceptable to share my digital content with a friend or family member. However realize that NOBODY has 1 million friends so that does not apply to sharing it digitally to the whole world.

    The only thing different about digital content that I feel should not be analogous to physical content is that I should not have to rebuy the content in a different resolution and there is NO REASON why an HD version of a digital movie is more expensive than an SD movie. The reason why Blu-ray's are more expensive the DVDs comes to the cost to author/produce a Blu-ray disk, but even then that coast hast diminished greatly over the last 5 years. I should be buying access to a movie and then have a choice to view it in whatever resolution suits the device I am playing it on, whether its SD, HD or 4k or 8k in the future. Unless the movie had to be remastered to get it to look better at a higher resolution I should never have to buy a movie twice.

    Of course the US government is taking a page out of Canada's government handbook. Before making an absurd and unpopular law, get the citizens opinion to make it look like you give a rat's ass about the common person before making sure to protect an industry right to maintain a monopoly and charge high prices for products and services, just like what Canada's CRTC does.

    --
    I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
  13. USPTO cannot change law by mschaffer · · Score: 2

    The USPTO cannot change the law of the land. That's what Congress is for.
    This will amount to nothing.

  14. Ways to improve copyright laws by jonwil · · Score: 2

    1.Change DMCA s512 to impose penalties on anyone who sends a take-down notice for content for content they do not own. This stops take-down notices being sent when the entity doing the sending doesn't actually own the content they are claiming to own.

    2.Change the DMCA and other laws to state clearly that any search engine or aggregator that uses automatic content collection systems (like Google or Bing or similar) gets 100% legal immunity for the content aggregated by their sites (i.e. takes away the ability for copyright holders to target or go after search engines because of content their spiders pick up)

    3.Change DMCA s103 to state that it is NOT a DMCA violation if you are breaking protection for the purpose of using content if you have permission from the copyright holder to make or use copies of the content.

    This means that it would be legal to break protection on phones, games consoles and other things in order to run "homebrew" or "side-load" software where the copyright holder has given permission for such uses.

    It also means that for example its legal to crack protection on proprietary camera RAW formats so you can access the photos you took without buying the proprietary tools to access it.

    4.Do something to handle "orphan works" (that is, works where the copyright holder cant be located). Plenty of old works (e.g. old computer games) cant be enjoyed again because no-one can identify who actually owns the rights.

    5.Pass laws to once and for all declare that APIs are not copyrightable (and end the Oracle v Google fight over API copyright for good)

  15. Damages need reinterpretation, not rewriting by Theaetetus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    4) Commercial Piracy should attract large fines, however small personal acts of piracy should be penalized in the region of a few thousand dollars TOTAL, not several tens of thousands for each work. As an example, Jammie Thomas was definitely guilty, but a maximum fine of about $5,000 would be seen as far more reasonable especially as she made no significant financial gain from the act.

    Interestingly, this is already in copyright law. It's just being misapplied.

    First, as a premise, when given a range, juries (or anyone) tends to default to approximately the geometric mean of the range. For example, if a crime carries a sentence of 1 to 20 years, you might expect that people would default to around 10 years, but they don't. After all, if 1 year is a possible sentence, then 10 is an order of magnitude larger! And the top of the range at 20 is only just double that. Clearly 10 is too high. Instead, juries will default to around 4-6 years.
    Well, it's the same thing in monetary damages: given a range (say, $750-$150,000, as in the "willful infringement" tier of copyright statutory damages), the geometric mean is $10,606. Tenenbaum was dinged for $22k per song. Thomas got hit for $9,250 per song. So, pretty close to the geometric mean.

    But wait, is that the right range? The statute says up to $150k for willful infringement, which the RIAA has defined as any infringement that's intentional (as opposed to accidental copying?). Their argument is that, if you've ever seen a copyright notice, and you then distribute a copyrighted work, that's willful, 'cause you knew it was wrong.
    But that's not what Congress intended. If you go back to the original House comments, it appears that they intended "Willful" to mean "malicious, or for commercial purposes" as in the trademark and patent acts. Like, if you sneak into your author neighbor's house and steal his manuscript and publish it to destroy his career, even if you didn't do it to make money, that's pretty evil, and you should be responsible for enhanced damages.

    So, the non-enhanced range is $750-$30,000. The geometric mean of this is $4700. Your suggestion - "about $5000". QED.

    Hence, we need to fix that interpretation of "willful", not go try to rewrite the copyright act, which can be done by arguing this issue in court and persuading judges, rather than fighting with well-monied RIAA lobbyists for Senators' favor.

    1. Re:Damages need reinterpretation, not rewriting by Theaetetus · · Score: 2

      Yes, but this probably got argued in Thomas and got nowhere, and the Thomas judgement has also been through appeals, and because the Supreme Court declined to hear it, means that it is on fairly rock solid legal foundations. The judges have already been persuaded.

      You'd think that, but you'd be wrong - neither Thomas nor Tenenbaum ever raised this argument, instead focusing on "actual damages are $.99, so anything over that is unconstitutionally punitive". That argument failed every time, because the actual damages were certainly greater than $.99 for the loss of distribution exclusivity, and with no legitimate refutation of Congress' determination of statutory damage amounts, the judges had to accept them as reasonable. No one has yet raised the issue of whether "willful" is "intentional" or "malicious".

      Bear in mind, of course, that because (i) for single-mother Thomas and broke-ass college kid Tenenbaum, any level of damages over $30 were unacceptable; (ii) they weren't paying their lawyers for the trials or appeals since they were pro-bono; and (iii) the lawyers (Harvard Prof. Charles Neeson and his former student Kiwi Camera) were making a political argument regarding whether copyright should exist at all rather than a pragmatic one as advocates for their clients, they had no interest in arguing for an interpretation that would still result in a reasonable award in the thousands of dollars range.