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Write Windows Phone Apps, No Code Required

jfruh writes "One of the biggest challenges Microsoft has faced with its Windows Phone platform is that it's far behind in the apps race against iOS and Android. One way to close the gap is to lower the barrier to entry for new app devs, and Microsoft has done so with Windows Phone App Studio, a hosted service that lets you build applications without actually writing any code. The description of how App Studio works may leave you wondering how useful or exciting the apps created will be, but a surge of developer interest during the current beta program has surprised even Microsoft with its scope."

51 of 210 comments (clear)

  1. Windows 8 woohoo! by hawkinspeter · · Score: 5, Funny

    So, it has come to this.

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    You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    1. Re:Windows 8 woohoo! by cristiroma · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Writing "apps" like this is like making websites in MS Word

    2. Re:Windows 8 woohoo! by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Funny

      Fart apps! Now three times as easy!

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    3. Re:Windows 8 woohoo! by Defenestrar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Haven't used the App Studio - remember that Myst was written in HyperCard and there's plenty of other examples in that vein.

      While in an entirely different class, LabVIEW is a graphical programming language which is quite powerful (true language / direct compiler). Simple/easy to code/read doesn't mean lousy or weak software. Besides, quality is usually pretty unrelated to code (other than some cases of performance).

    4. Re:Windows 8 woohoo! by AndyAndyAndyAndy · · Score: 5, Funny

      I still have a hard time believing people sit down and code those.

      --
      It's always confirmation bias!
    5. Re:Windows 8 woohoo! by serviscope_minor · · Score: 5, Informative

      While in an entirely different class, LabVIEW is a graphical programming language which is quite powerful (true language / direct compiler).

      Oh fuck no.

      LabVIEW makes it moderately OK to control some stuff provided your control and logging and whatever system can be somewhat easily represented by a circuit diagram like construction.

      In other words, it makes the easy bit of controlling stuff almost trivial to the user.

      The trouble is that then the usre wants to do something a bit more complex and the simple, easy to use circuit diagram like thing turns into a mega evil rats nest of doom.

      All projects lasting more than about a week end up tending towards a rats nest of doom.

      What astonishes me is the amazing quantity of effort people will put in to *not* learning how to simply code it.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    6. Re:Windows 8 woohoo! by Bacon+Bits · · Score: 2

      No, they don't. Apple killed Hypercard. They sold the tool to Claris but kept the devs at Apple. Then they decided Mac OS would ship with a Hypercard player, but you had to play Claris to be able to develop on it. When they bought Claris back, they tried to make it a QuickTime extension. Then they just stopped developing it. Not because they didn't think it was good; they just didn't know how to market it so they killed it.

      --
      The road to tyranny has always been paved with claims of necessity.
    7. Re:Windows 8 woohoo! by Requiem18th · · Score: 3

      Oh I see the obligatory xkcd comic http://xkcd.com/1022/

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      But... the future refused to change.
    8. Re:Windows 8 woohoo! by N0Man74 · · Score: 3, Funny

      if you've developed for android you'd know a "simple" fart app requires quite a bit of effort to ensure it works across all devices & flavors of android.

      I'm sorry, but your statement does not pass the smell test.

    9. Re:Windows 8 woohoo! by Defenestrar · · Score: 2

      Quite right. Any programmer in any language who puts scrambled lines of code into a single subroutine (i.e. "mega evil rats nest of doom") deserves to work the AOL geriatric IT help line for a week. You don't have to get very far into the documentation before sub-.VIs, event triggers, and state machines start becoming strongly suggested.

  2. like GameMaker all over again by RedHackTea · · Score: 2

    Anyone remember that stuff? Or RPG Maker as a kid (and RPG Maker 2001, etc.)? There are a few others I'm missing.

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    The G
    1. Re:like GameMaker all over again by cerebralpayne · · Score: 3, Informative
    2. Re:like GameMaker all over again by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Click N' Play was great -- heavy on the GUI with some very light scripting to tie more complex events together, and you could create a pretty wide variety of games so long as they were 2D.

    3. Re:like GameMaker all over again by SQLGuru · · Score: 2
    4. Re:like GameMaker all over again by yndrd1984 · · Score: 2
  3. Re:CAN you write code for it? by DougOtto · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yes, but you have to do it entirely from the touch screen, using only colored blocks.

    --
    Solving Unix problems since 1989...
  4. A contradiction in terms? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you're creating an application that hasn't existed yet, you're instructing the computer as to how to do something, i.e., you're programming, i.e., you're creating code in one way or another. Either that, or the environment is so limited as to make the "write apps" part completely meaningless.

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    Ezekiel 23:20
    1. Re:A contradiction in terms? by Cyko_01 · · Score: 2

      I would hardly call it programming, more like re-configuring. You are not creating new lego bricks, you are just moving them around and coloring on them

    2. Re:A contradiction in terms? by SJHillman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's not really a contradiction, it's just adding a layer between the dev and the actual code. Think WYSIWYG web editors that have been around forever. You're still building a website, it's just showing the computer what you want and letting it generate the actual code. It's really not a lot different than coding in C# and then having it compiled into binary... you're just creating the program at a level even further away from what the computer will actually run. Of course, like the WYSIWYG web editors, the code will almost certainly be sloppy and inefficient compared to coding it yourself, but it opens up the market for basic apps to people that otherwise couldn't/wouldn't make them.

    3. Re:A contradiction in terms? by SJHillman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You can make a pretty usable website using only WYSIWYG editors, so why not an app? The two really aren't that different considering they're both aimed at the casual/amateur market.

    4. Re:A contradiction in terms? by SQLGuru · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The same could be said about machine language instructions. You aren't really creating new ones, you are just putting them together in a different order with different values loaded into the registers.

    5. Re:A contradiction in terms? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 3, Informative

      You are not creating new lego bricks, you are just moving them around and coloring on them

      So it's very much like moving x86 instructions around and putting them next to each other?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    6. Re:A contradiction in terms? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      it's just adding a layer between the dev and the actual code.

      The problem is that nobody knows what that "actual code" is supposed to be. Do you mean the computational process? Because there will always be a layer between the programmer and the computational process, even if you program in machine code. Every time someone finds a new abstraction to programming, people will come out and start shouting "that's not programming, that's cheating!", but there is no free lunch. That reminds me of the wonderful “Now that we have Cobol, can we get rid of all those beatnik programmers?” quote, courtesy of US military, 1960s or so. No, you can't, it's still programming, even if you manage to do more work in less time, it's still qualitatively very much the same activity.

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      Ezekiel 23:20
    7. Re:A contradiction in terms? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

      So... anyone who doesn't hand-code all their own libraries isn't a programmer?

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    8. Re:A contradiction in terms? by SJHillman · · Score: 2

      A surprising number of apps in the android store are little more than a collection of static pages, with the odd calculator or flashcard functionality thrown in. Stuff that should be fairly easy for a GUI based editor to handle. So the end result is that this is just making it easier for Windows to have more apps like those already available on other platforms.

    9. Re:A contradiction in terms? by timmyf2371 · · Score: 2

      You're making the (IMO incorrect) assumption that programming is the only creative activity taking place when developing an app.

      For me, the more creative part of designing an application is the actual content, the look and feel, and how the app actually works. To suggest that someone with these talents can't be equally creative as another person who can write code seems naive.

      I'm one of these people who used to take snippets of VBA code and insert them into Excel and Access to improve my workflow and make better tools (now I largely write my own). It was because of my creative skills that I was able to identify what I wanted the code to do and actually make easy to use, functional business tools.

      As a counter example, if you take someone whose primary skill is mere coding and asked them to start writing code, their first question will surely be "well what should I write?"

      --

      Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
  5. W.Y.S.I.W.Y.G... by Ashenkase · · Score: 3, Funny

    is S.H.I.T.

  6. Has anyone used this for non-trivial apps? by QilessQi · · Score: 2

    I suspect that -- other than wiring up GUI elements to events -- there aren't a lot of interesting things you can do with a GUI-based code builder that you can't do more efficiently by writing actual code.

    I gather that the idea is to lower the bar for "Hello World"-type apps, but once that's done, I have to wonder: are any serious app developers using this as a development bed for complex apps?

    1. Re:Has anyone used this for non-trivial apps? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      I have to wonder: are any serious app developers using this as a development bed for complex apps?

      Of course not. This is for people who, ten years ago, would use Visual Basic as a wrapper to run a cheesy script to do something.

      And forget about bounds checking, input sanitation, data security and integrity and a whole host of other bothersome concepts.

      Can''t wait....

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      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Has anyone used this for non-trivial apps? by SQLGuru · · Score: 3, Informative

      One thing not called out is that you can actually download the Solution File once you are done (also, you also have the option to deploy to devices outside of the app store). So, you can use the App Builder for prototyping and then get the solution code when you are ready to take your app further.

      So, even if you view it as simple, it can be useful.

    3. Re:Has anyone used this for non-trivial apps? by 0123456 · · Score: 2

      Windows now has 3,000,000 Metro apps! Of which you might actually want to use three!

    4. Re:Has anyone used this for non-trivial apps? by SJHillman · · Score: 3, Informative

      Which puts it right on par with Android and iOS

  7. Obligatory clippy quote by DeathToBill · · Score: 4, Funny

    You seem to be writing an app. Would you like help?

    Here's betting this will be just as useful.

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    Slashdot - News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters, in ISO-8859-1 Has just realised that beta makes this signature redundant
  8. Puruse the forums of any ios/android app engines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    If you check the unity3d forums, you will see a few hundred people that have a great idea for a game and it always reads sort of like this:
    It's like, so basically... it's Skyrim for iOS/Android. So who wants to code this for me? Obviously since I am the idea man I will keep the MILLJIONS of dollars it will make, because writing code is easy, I just don't have time to learn because I am too important or have ADD. I did find some great free models on turbosquid though, just need someone to make them move.. what's it called, rigging? Oh and texture too. Since I did the hard part of finding these models, that last part should be really simple, but I'll pay you out of the HUGE profits of my game.

    Well Microsoft, I applaud you. You have given these idea men, these mental giants, a fertile ground of milk and honey! We lowly coders and artists will sorely miss them in our forums, but wish them bon voyage on this, their great and noble endeavor!

  9. Quantity instead of quality by Begemot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    check the top free apps - none could be made without code
    it looks like MS wants quantity instead of quality - no wonder the only informative thing TFA has is the number of users and projects.

    1. Re:Quantity instead of quality by SJHillman · · Score: 2, Informative

      Check out the bulk of Android apps... most of them could be made by a monkey flinging poop at a keyboard. It's not aimed at people looking to make The Next Big Thing.

    2. Re:Quantity instead of quality by umafuckit · · Score: 3, Funny

      it looks like MS wants quantity instead of quality

      How's that any different to 95% of the crap on the Apple and Google stores?

  10. Re:Correct Me If I'm Wrong... by lord_mike · · Score: 2

    There was plenty of interest, but Google decided to listen to Steve Jobs's advice and "shut down" anything that wasn't "core" to their operations. Why someone would take advice from a competitor that has promised to "bury you" is beyond me, but they did. App Inventor was quite popular. It's main limitation was the inability to create "multi form" screens. Otherwise it was pretty powerful and useful for a point and click interface.

  11. Re:CAN you write code for it? by Conspiracy_Of_Doves · · Score: 3, Informative

    I had to make some of those Access applications. *shudder*

    Nothing like writing code where you have to fight the very environment you're writing it in.

  12. I think it's a great idea... by lord_mike · · Score: 3, Interesting

    One of the big drawbacks of Apple is the idea that you should be able to easily use apple products to promote creativity, as long as the creativity doesn't involve creating an "app" or programming an Apple product in any personal way. At that point, you're shoved into massive restrictions, high cost, and weird programming languages to discourage kids and novices from coding. Android is much more open with their philosophy, but their tools are hardly user friendly for the curious would-be programmer. Microsoft is being smart here and sticking with their roots. While Apple diverged from what made them a big company in the first place (the openness and flexibility of the Apple II), Microsoft seems to be returning to their core philosophy of "Developers, developers, developers" of all types, shapes and sizes. Remember that Microsoft got its start with BASIC for beginning programmers, and one of their biggest products of all time has been Visual Basic--a tool for simple programming. Allowing people to easily create smartphone content for themselves is one easy and smart way to differentiate themselves from their competitors. It seems that after flirting with the idea that they must copy Apple, Microsoft has hopefully decided to do what Microsoft does best--make semi-open systems that are easy to program and customize for users.

  13. Re:Nobody cares by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No, these things last forever. It's going to be a cottage industry that never dies, like FrontPage websites and Access databases.

    --
    Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
  14. Re:Android had something like this by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 4, Informative

    Android had something like this, and I believe it went the way of the dodo.

    Not quite. It went to MIT: http://appinventor.mit.edu/

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    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  15. Re:Allow Sideloading by lord_mike · · Score: 2

    Unless they changed things recently, getting a developers license for Windows Phone is trivial and cost free. Yes, you still need to apply for a license for sideloading, which is obnoxious, but it's only a minor hindrance.

  16. Re:Nobody cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I had a horrible experience lately. I was at the dealer to get an oil change. They have these nice imacs at every station. I took a look at the screen while after walking away, to discover that they were using filemaker pro, along with a remote desktop connection to a Windows terminal server that had a different dos program running. Looked great and modern from a distance ...

  17. Re:Nobody cares by ArhcAngel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Even Microsoft tells their customers Access is crap but as long as people continue to buy copies they keep updating it! I can't even get one of our groups to use the free version of MS SQL because Access is "easier" despite the fact we will not support them. If the 1 programmer they have leaves their project is toast.

    --
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
  18. Killer App - Visual Basic by Tim12s · · Score: 2

    Visual Basic was the nail in many coffins as it made building applications "dead simple". I am shocked that they lost their way with Zune and, by extension, Windows Phone. Now, I am happy with the idea of .NET however to create applications there needs to be a layer of simplicity added to allow someone from a non-technical background to create a really simple application. VB6.

  19. Re:CAN you write code for it? by pwizard2 · · Score: 2

    Have you ever seen the applications people build around MS Access back in the day? It was, I am not exaggerating, a nightmare. You could really have bad dreams about that sort of thing, because it felt like what getting lost in the woods at night feels like.

    The Visual Basic 6 monstrosities people used to cobble together back in the '90s were just as bad.

    --
    "It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
  20. Re:Nobody cares by plover · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why was it a "horrible" experience? Did filemaker pro somehow fill your crankcase with 90 weight grease and wreck your engine? Did the DOS program spray poop-scented air freshener beneath your seat?

    Or did you just see someone using an old DOS program that's doing exactly what the business owner needs without costing him a ton of money? Doesn't sound too horrible to me.

    --
    John
  21. Re:Somewhat incorrect by plover · · Score: 2

    I'm looking at it from the other side. I think of these visual languages as nothing but abstractions, done at a layer so high that they can make it hard to define your problem with enough precision to do the job well. Additionally, because they are so many layers removed from the hardware (often hiding behind a network interface as well as thick layers of XAML, DOM parsers, WPF, IL, bytecode, frameworks, OS APIs, libraries, and HALs), performance either suffers or you're forcing your users to spend extra dollars on a CPU, RAM, and power to make up for your reliance on abstractions.

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    John
  22. Re:CAN you write code for it? by Talderas · · Score: 2

    I have to occassionally maintain some of those applications..... I go home and drink myself drunk on those days.

    --
    "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
  23. Re:Nobody cares by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 2

    It's slightly worse than that—lack of updates isn't enough for most of these things. They just keeeep going, utterly unmaintainable, as long as they run.

    --
    Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!