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For Overstated Claims, Gore, Tesla Upbraided By NWS, NHTSA Respectively
barlevg writes "In a recent interview, former Vice President and environmental activist Al Gore made a bold claim, that man-made global warming was causing hurricanes to be formed of such severity that 'they're adding a 6' to the hurricane scale, going on to say that 'The fingerprint of man-made global warming is all over these storms and extreme weather events.' In response, the National Weather Service has responded that they have no plans to add a 'doomsday Category 6' to their rating scale: 'No, we're not pursuing any such change. I'm also not sure who VP Gore means by "they,"' also noting that 'Category 5 has no ceiling: it includes hurricanes with top sustained winds of 157 mph and higher.'
Furthermore, a recently leaked United Nations climate assessment claims only 'low confidence' of a link between human activity and increased hurricane severity and that this is likely due to increased human settlement in coastal areas and other regions vulnerable to natural disasters."
Along similar lines, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says that Tesla's Model S, no matter how safe it is, doesn't get any special grade inflation: there's no "5.4" score (as the company did in a press release this week), because that's just not how the NHTSA keeps score. (Hat tip to reader cartechboy.)
incomprehensibleheadline
I'm surprised that the inventor of The Internet would make such erroneous claims.
-=You might be a geek if your computer is worth more than your car=-
Yes, there can be bigger hurricanes and they should have a higher Cat 6 level. More water vapor and more CO2 can influence these storms by how much thermal energy and pressure differences there are in the atmosphere.
Tesla's Model S is just hot. Why would you want to crash it?
Nice trolling submission.
My category scale goes to 11
I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
Tu quoque's don't get us anywhere. Just point out that there are political pricks who're douchebags, which we already know. Yes, that includes Al Gore. No, that does not change the science of climate change. Yes, his stupid documentary made me want to vomit. Science should be explained by scientists, not those with agendas.
I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
I'm happy with Tesla claiming a 5.4 ... as long as the same scoring is reported for other cars. I haven't heard a peep about what competing vehicles got when scored the same way. Maybe i missed it, but it sure seemed like none of the 'reporters' were willing to even do the mildest amount of investigation to give the public an honest comparison and that's where the real problem is.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
The Category system only measures wind speed, not storm surge, track, or the velocity of the storm system, or even how much rain it will dump. A Category 1 coming ashore during a full-moon high tide can do a lot more damage than a hurricane with higher winds.Arguably, Sandy was not even a hurricane when it came ashore. And a year before there was Irene that deluged inland areas of New York and North Jersey with amazing amounts of rainfall. It came ashore with winds similar to Sandy in almost the same part of NJ, but did very little damage to that area.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
More like "to its ankles". Buildings were not washed away, it was a minor inconvenience in a highly populated area.
Tomorrow is another day...
Once we start colonizing other planets category 6 may be needed. Until then it's just political pedantry.
I'm a little confused though.. is this article about Mr. Gore exaggerating climate change to fit his agenda, or is it about the UN dismissing the signs of climate change to fit their agenda? "People and organizations promote their agendas to the exclusion of truth, news at 11. Also, stay tuned for corrections about previous stories."
It must be another slow news day.
Hey, now i agree we do need to cut back on pollution, cars are not the problem,
look up super tankers you know the big boats, that have cargo boxes on them.
^they put out more crap then all the worlds cars
i am annoyed by sound pollution, nobody ever talks about that, its like choppers and rice go faster when loud?
In one day a volcano could burp, and spit out more toxic gases than from the entire industrial rev. to now, look it up
i dont have a phd in geology
arguing over minor semantics. Yes, they may not add a "Category 6" but that doesn't mean that storms might not be powerful enough that such a classification might be useful the layman in describing something that something is 'off the chart.' Similarly, Tesla's Model S outperformed NHTSA's tests, and is getting special treatment whether they wish to acknowledge it or not.
Writing analysis says this was typed by the same person who typed
Yes, there can be bigger hurricanes and they should have a higher Cat 6 level. More water vapor and more CO2 can influence these storms by how much thermal energy and pressure differences there are in the atmosphere.
Tesla's Model S is just hot. Why would you want to crash it?
Nice trolling submission.
Yes. But it was in New York so it actually mattered.
(If you didn't see the sarcasm there, you're probably a New Yorker).
Words, eh? It's not like they mean anything or anything like that.
I don't know...have you ever been brought to your ankles? If something brings you to your knees, you can just stand right back up again. But roll an ankle, and man, that's like a week of limping and constant pain!
Everything is better with chainsaws.
They're driven by the heat gradient across latitude, and increased temperature overall will reduce that gradient.
Open ended doesn't mean there isn't room for another category. Category is based on damage to a home. SO Cat 5 means 'highly likely to destroy a house'.
also takes out most the windows in a high rise building..
But what happens when they start making high rises uninhabitable and need to be torn down?
That would mean they would need to add a category.
It's science. If new data or events start to happen the science with adjust to fit the data.
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pdf/sshws_table.pdf
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The only reason the review showed the car failing is because the reviewer INTENTIONALLY didn't recharge the battery enough for the last leg of the trip (as the on board computer data logs showed quite clearly).
Take an ICE engine that gets 30 mpg, put one gallon in it, and it'll also not make a 100 mile trip (or whatever the distance was).
Go figure.
so complete shut down, billions in damage, compete destruction of 100s of automobiles is now a minor conveniences?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Mod parent up. The OP is a perfect example of some non-scientist hating the players and not the game. Tesla's marketing gaffes do not alter the fact that their car is safer than pretty much anything out there. Al Gore's hyperbolic statements are irrelevant to the actual truth about climate change. And, please remind me, which UN committee was it that was unaffected by some agenda?
The OP maybe be marginally funny (to some) and possibly gratifying to climate change deniers, but it contributes nothing at all to any scientific discussion. Go find some real data if you want to have a serious discussion. Otherwise, stay on the porch with the little dogs.
Professor Pielke recently testified to congress on these matters, there is no increase in hurricane strength or frequency.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/08/21/pielke-jrs-follow-up-qa-from-the-senate-epw-committee/#more-92033
2) Dr. Pielke, do you agree with comments made during the hearing that the weather here in the U.S. has fundamentally changed as is evidenced by an increase in hurricanes, droughts, floods, and tornadoes? Do you agree there is “strong evidence” that extreme weather events in the U.S. have become more frequent and intense?
PIELKE REPLY: A range of evidence summarized in my prepared testimony indicates that, on climate time scales in the US or globally, there has not been an increase in hurricanes, droughts, floods or tornadoes. The evidence for this claim is strong and is well-supported in the peer-reviewed literature, data collected by the U.S. government’s research agencies and the recent report on extreme events by Intergovermental Panel on Climate Change.
3) Dr. Pielke, to reiterate your points debunking claims that weather events in the United States are “extreme” in that they are increasing and more intense I would like to ask you a series of questions and provide you the opportunity to answer each.
a) Have United States landfalling hurricanes increased in frequency or intensity since 1900? Have they increased globally? Has damage, adjusted for more people and property, increased in the US or elsewhere?
PIELKE REPLY: As presented in my testimony, the US has not seen an increase in hurricane landfall frequency or intensity since at least 1900, nor in measures of damage, normalized for societal change. In fact, the US is presently in the longest stretch without a Category 3+ hurricane landfall since at least 1900.
b) Has United States flooding increased on climate timescales? Globally? Have United States tornadoes increased? Has United States drought overall increased?
PIELKE REPLY: As presented in my testimony, the US has not seen an overall increase in flooding, nor has such an increase been documented globally. The same holds also for tornadoes and drought.
c) Has the cost of disasters increased globally as a fraction of GDP?
PIELKE REPLY: As presented in my testimony, the cost of disasters as a fraction of global GDP has actually decreased since 1990.
4) Has anyone taken you up on your June 27th twitter invitation to defend President Obama’s claim? (“Open invitation: Does anyone wish to defend the Obama claim that worse extreme weather is increasing disaster costs?”)
PIELKE REPLY: No one took up the challenge.
That's two different subjects.
Editors: is this a news aggregation site, or are we now making new articles here?
Spot on. Of course here you'll get marked troll for pointing it out. In the US, everything is a binary split between "liberal" (not Classical Liberal of the kind the founding fathers would recognise) and "Conservative". Slashdot is mostly the former. Al Gore is a "liberal" hero, but as you've correctly observed, also a massive twat.
I am asking: what is the point?
Society use your Sciences
Don't be so hasty, the man is very important.
Without him, we wouldn't have the Algore-rithm that he invented while attending Harvard.
Where would computer science be without the Algorithm?
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
Herp derp. Gore-bots can't handle the truth.
While it is always good to dump on Al Gore by claiming he
said something that he didn't say, IN THIS CASE there is a 2011
story from Scientific American - the lefty publication that
seduces our young into a life of respect for science and fact that
actually substantiates that the claim he makes is....TRUE. He never
claimed that the NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE was discussing the change,
only that Climate Scientists were discussing the change. Which -
apparently in 2011 some were. But please vent your spleen at him
anyway.
maybe it has to do with his comment over the year about just throwing drug users in jail, you moron. ITs not that anyone cares that he is a drug addict and that there are no liberal drug addicts any more then liberals really care that Newter has had 4 marriages. Its not there personal lives they care about, its the hypocrisy with witch they apply the rules. If YOU'RE a drug addict or gay its jail(w/ no voting, no job, no rehab) or no marriage(what with the sanctity of it all). If its THEM, well life just goes on they way they would like it it too.
If a Hurricane is strong enough to tip over a Tesla model S, then it should get a Category 6 rating . . .
We are Dead Stars looking back Up at the Sky
Yeah, if your ankles are 9 feet off the ground. Not only were buildings washed away, in north Jersey, entire towns were swept out to sea. In Brooklyn, a neighborhood was mostly underwater and on fire. There were boats in people's driveways where their cars were before. It cost billions in damage. This was a helluva lot more than an inconvenience to those who lived there. Maybe it was in inconvenience to you.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
How frustrating that the NHTSA caps at 5/5, as if that makes a car perfectly safe. There's ALWAYS room for improvement, and as far as I can tell, Tesla extrapolated the 5.4 score to reflect measurable stats that the NHTSA provided.
It reminds me of 20 watt CFL light bulbs which have an 'A' rating. At least in the UK, it stops there; you can't get better than an A no matter how well a device performs (11 watt LED bulbs are apparently almost twice as efficient at 11 watt compared to 20). It's an artificial limitation which limits product innovation and efficiency. If you are going to use letters than at least go from A forwards through the alphabet, or even better, report the actual efficiency as lumens per watt rather than a blind, backwards system which can't imagine that the future could get any better.
Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
$20 and a convenient alley will get New York City on its knees.
What? Everyone knows Al Gore is a closeted ruddy-faced queen.
And a hurricane has more personality than him.
Fun fact: New York doesn't have many alleys
1) Except that that's not the reporter's account, and it's getting pretty boring to hear Tesla+fanboys try sooooo hard to discredit someone simply because he was driving like anyone would normally drive a car and he found out that one car isn't quite suited for driving like that;
2) Even so, when you're doing an independent test, you rely on independent logging.
OP here. And my Ph.D and career take issue with your "non-scientist" characterization. My point in submitting the story (based on articles written by meteorologists) was not to "gratify" climate change deniers. On the contrary. It was to call out a man making stupid (and blatantly false) assertions. When climate change supporters exaggerate claims (like with that arctic methane bomb a few weeks back) or falsify data, it HURTS their (OUR) case rather than helping it. One of the biggest criticisms I (and other liberals) have of many conservatives is that they make shit up, bend "facts" to serve political agendas and completely ignore reality even it's staring them in the face. When Al Gore says that man is causing "category six" hurricanes when a UN report says there's no conclusive evidence that man is causing stronger hurricanes, and the NWS says there's nothing past Category Five, he's being alarmist, irrational and no better than the "deniers" he's giving ammunition to.
Rush is the only hypocrite in that story, and that's because of his public statements about "drug addicts". Try and keep up commrade.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
That was actually my point exactly in posting this article. In order to support the argument that climate change deniers are the ones who disregard reality, we need to make sure that climate change awareness "advocates" don't go around doing the exact same shit.
I'm not an American and don't really see Gore as a politician, even though I remember him as one. I actually like the guy, he's the only US politician that I can think of in the last 20yrs that even comes close to being a geek. He doesn't personally profit from his climate charity, and he's a long way off being a "billionaire".
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Awkwardly worded, I admit (the summary was getting long, and I didn't want to out-and-out plagiarize the source article). But the argument is that hurricane severity is measured in dollars of destruction, and in that case, the more likely culprit for increased property destruction was increased property to destroy.
I don't know about all of the ones in the summary (and certainly the Al Gore one is absurd), but when it comes to overstated claims, I know this one website that claims to have "News for Nerds; Stuff that Matters".
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Just for some perspective, on another Anthropogenic Global Warming topic, I made an argument that each one of these emergency environmental crisii all have the same narrative and solution. My comment was upvoted 6 times for insightful and funny, downvoted 5 times for troll and overrated. I understand my opinion was different but if you don't believe in Anthropogenic Global Warming its not because you think science hasn't backed up the argument its because you are a troll and no intelligent person would disbelieve that global climate scientists would have any profit/fame motive for making the global climate a life/death issue.
ManBearPig is real, you deniers!!!
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
These two articles have nothing in common. It seems to me that somebody is trying to present a biased viewpoint about environmentalism and alternate fuel vehicles.
That your best argument for Al Gore is to snark on how Rush Limbaugh is worse speaks volumes about how fucked-up the American political landscape is.
I agree independent logging would be great, but you're being silly. What the reported said contradicts both what the Tesla logs say and common sense, and even what the reporte said (he admitted he didn't charge it according to directions or common sense for the last leg).
You have a reporter with a history of dislike for EVs who according to common sense, computer logs, and his own article simply failed to actually charge up the battery enough for the last leg of his trip.
From Musk's response:
The final leg of his trip was 61 miles and yet he disconnected the charge cable when the range display stated 32 miles. He did so expressly against the advice of Tesla personnel and in obvious violation of common sense.
In his article, Broder claims that “the car fell short of its projected range on the final leg.” Then he bizarrely states that the screen showed “Est. remaining range: 32 miles” and the car traveled “51 miles," contradicting his own statement (see images below). The car actually did an admirable job exceeding its projected range. Had he not insisted on doing a nonstop 61-mile trip while staring at a screen that estimated half that range, all would have been well. He constructed a no-win scenario for any vehicle, electric or gasoline.
Also, stop with the bullshit tesla fanboy crap. You're just embarrassing yourself.
For those who dont get it, I was impacted in the Saguenay flood (Quebec, Canada) in which we had whole neighbourhoods washed away with water. More recently, a crude oil train exploded downtown where I live, killing 50 people and razing half downtown... Not trolling, just putting things in perspective.
Tomorrow is another day...
Give him a break folks, he's talking about the hot air storms in Congress.
How many deads?
Tomorrow is another day...
Is there any way they can both lose?
I though it was pronounced Gorch:/
You forgot "rich".
Yes, his stupid documentary made me want to vomit. Science should be explained by scientists, not those with agendas.
Well it's a real shame no scientist with data supporting climate change ever tried to explain it to the public, then. They all figured a vice president would come along, so why bother before that?
Scientists have been saying this for decades. Not enough people cared. Nothing happened, long after it was obvious a change needed to be made. Better PR was needed. And that still didn't solve it. Even had there not been powerful interests in carbon taxes, I don't think the public would have overcome it's inertia and demanded reducing carbon emissions, they hear it's not going to happen tomorrow and it isn't sex or movies, and ignore it.
What's wrong with Gore anyway? Agenda? Who the hell DOESN'T have an agenda? I've heard he was in on a scheme to get rich from selling carbon credits. So what? Is that a reason not to fight climate change? There are a lot more people who are a lot more evil than Gore getting insanely wealthy off us NOT taxing carbon. Like, OPEC. Gore seems unlikely to take his carbon money and fund it towards suppressing human rights and terrorism, which is not true of oil money. The coal industry isn't quite as bad as OPEC, but there's a lot of terrible people there too.
Aye. Being worth a mere $200mil makes him just like you and I.
Sorry to hear that... The news coverage I got was spotty I guess. If we talk about relative terms, 0.9% of the population died when that crude oil train blown up.
Tomorrow is another day...
"This amp goes up to 11!".
Ring a bell?
Do you complain that there is no 11 on a dial?
No?
I'm afraid you're the fatass hypocrite.
Yes, in relative terms, in our small town, everybody lost someone. Try to imagine 100000 deaths in New York and you have an idea of the impact it have on our community.
Tomorrow is another day...
I'm sure those that are skeptics (or like me think the "solutions" that they are attempting to ram down our throats are just a giant reverse robin hood cash grab by Gore and pals) love the hell out of the Al Gore, after all the more times he's caught just outright pulling the "facts" from his rectum the easier it is to get more folks to be skeptical.
In a way he makes me think of another Al, Al Sharpton, in that even if he has some facts on his side he has to go so far out with his rhetoric that even if he originally had a point he quickly becomes a recruitment tool for the other side. With both Als the facts are never enough, they ALWAYS have to go overboard with the bullshit and spin until it gets to the point if they said it was raining you'd want a second opinion.
Those that believe in AGW frankly ought to do everything they can to distance themselves from al Gore and his hypocritical bullshit, his farting around in a Lear jet or a fleet of limos while claiming he is carbon neutral because he gets credits from HIS OWN COMPANY (this would be like me moving money from my left to right pocket and getting cheers and a tax credit for "wealth redistribution") just makes the entire platform look like a giant scam cooked up by a bunch of greedy spoiled pigs that want to stuff their pockets selling snake oil. If there HAS to be a public face to AGW I have the perfect candidate...Ed Begley Jr. That man not only talks the talk he walks the walk, living in a modest house and driving a small electric vehicle and living as lightly as he can to minimize his footprint, makes a hell of a lot better example than the Rev Al Gore and his McMansion with indoor basketball court and AC blasting.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Right, a mahor northern US city being 9 feet underwater from a freak hurricane/snow storm wasn't newsworthy enough to be more than spotty, and your memory is perfect. That must be what happened.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
Politicians and others can be effective communicators of climate science and guide us toward policy action, but they risk creating confusion and eroding public confidence in science when they make misrepresentative statements.
Tell you what, when Gore gets rid of his 30,000 sq ft house and all the SUVs he drives around and starts living what he's preaching I will listen.
I think you mean category 6S. And let the NHTSA and/or NWS copyright the term "6S" too, just so that Apple has to go from iPhone 6 to iPhone 7 in one step for a change.
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
... whether it's Al Gore or Bill O'Reilly, the world prefers to get it's information from clowns. The clown's antics serve the message, if not so much the facts. The throng-de-jure suscribes to the message of its choice and the facts will just have to get in line; afterall, real science is too hard.
I'd mod you up for those last 2 sentences alone, if I had points.
We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion.
People resident in York who just moved in?
I actually quite like NYC. But Americans have a provincialism that tends to scale as some power of the population density.
That's US Americans FWIW. ;)
on Tesla, this is wrong. The NHTSA did NOT say Tesla's statements were inaccurate. It said "we only give ratings up to 5, and that's what we want you to tell the public." Tesla's sin was disclosing the raw data, not the data the NHTSA wanted them to.
There is another guy who lives a lot like Ed Begley Jr. in that regard. He ran against Gore for the Presidency and won. While Al lives in a HUGE house in the south, and assuages his conscience with those "carbon credits", George W. Bush lives in a modest ranch house in Texas, that is heated and cooled with geothermal energy.
Brawndo: It's what plants crave!
Thanks but this is something that has bothered me for years, Al Gore is the biggest fatass hypocrite on the planet and is about as useful for the cause of AGW as sending the head of the black panthers every time there is a racial incident so he can grab the mike and say "kill them honky bitches".
The man lives in a Mc Mansion capable of housing a half a dozen families without even coming into contact with each other, takes an entire fleet of SUVs wherever he goes like some third world dictator, farts around in a personal Lear Jet that often carries only him and a few aides, while having the big brass balls to say while he stuffs his face that YOU should do without or pay higher taxes that will go to him and his pals to "save" the environment he obviously cares soooo much about...the man is a pig, there is no ifs, ands, or buts about it. he is the classic "do as i say not as I do" hypocrite standing on high and stuffing his pockets while telling you to do without and even Ray Charles could see through his bullshit.
Contrast this to Begley who even though he has enough money he likewise could live like a pig lives in a VERY modest 3 bedroom like the majority of Americans live in, drives a little electric car with a bike rack so he can just pop off his bike and ride it for short hops and who does everything in his power to minimize his footprint and recycle, THAT is the kind of guy we should be hearing from, not some fat pig living like a king with his AC blasting while telling us we should just take the heat. another GREAT example is Dennis Weaver, he lives in a solar powered house made from cans and tires and other refuse, he like wise walks the walk.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Iâ(TM)m out-of-town and so away from my tape recorder. So I asked Goreâ(TM)s staff about the line and they have Gore saying:âoeThe scientists are now adding category six to the hurricane...some are proposing we add category 6 to the hurricane scale that used to be 1-5. âoe
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
Garbled in cut and paste. Check original.
http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/08/23/al-gore-and-category-6-hurricanes/
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
Here's the IPCC's definition of climate change from http://www.thegwpf.org/ipcc-introduces-new-climate-change-definition/
"Climate Change: A change in the state of the climate that can be identified (e.g., by using statistical tests) by changes in the mean and/or the variability of its properties and that persists for an extended period, typically decades or longer. Climate change may be due to natural internal processes or external forcings, or to persistent anthropogenic changes in the composition of the atmosphere or in land use."
Hasn't that been happening on Earth for at least 4.5 billion years (or 10,000 years for those Global Warming believers)?
Yes, the climate is changing; it's always changing. So how is that a thing?
The first sentence of the definition says that climate change is the status quo. The second sentence says it may attributed to anything, right?
Too bad just the amount of wasted fuel on his Iraq debacle (which just FYI didn't have a damned thing to do with terrorism but was a payback for quote "wanting to kill my dad" because even the CIA said that terrorists didn't get shit from Saddam) spewed enough crap into the air he'd have to live like Begley Jr for a thousand years just to make up for it, that don't count all the depleted uranium splattered all over the place, the wasted infrastructure that had to be rebuilt, if you look at the numbers war is the biggest pollutant you can possibly have short of just nuking from orbit.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.