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Microsoft and Google Challenge US Government Gag Orders

Posted by timothy on from the infinite-gagging dept.

First time accepted submitter ace37 writes "Microsoft says it plans to move ahead with a lawsuit filed against the U.S. government in June to affirm the right of businesses to disclose limited information about government demands for data made under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). In separate legal filings, Microsoft and Google challenged the gag order that typically accompanies FISA demands for customer data. The two companies asserted that they have a First Amendment right to publish the total number of FISA requests received and the total number of user accounts covered by such requests."

14 of 115 comments (clear)

  1. Here's hoping... by static0verdrive · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This type of lawsuit can help regain some of the liberties the government has taken away, or at least some of the transparency. #WishfulThinking

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    1. Re:Here's hoping... by icebike · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "This type of lawsuit can help regain some of the liberties the government has taken away FROM CORPORATIONS, or at least some of the transparency".

      FTFY

      Well, when you are served with a FISA order, we will worry about your liberties.

      In the mean time I'm pretty happy to have them pushing back, and I wish ALL the big companies would follow.
      There is no doubt they are seeing this as harmful to their business, because users feel betrayed.

      They need to push for revealing MORE information. For instance, EVERY USER, who's account was
      subject to such an order should be notified (after a suitable passage of time, 6 months seems right for most cases).
      The government would have to offer up this fact in Discovery if someone was subsequently charged, why should an innocent person deserve less?

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    2. Re:Here's hoping... by EmperorArthur · · Score: 5, Informative

      You haven't been keeping up with all the news have you. It's understandable, considering how much is out there.

      http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130805/10035024070/dea-not-only-gets-intelligence-data-then-is-instructed-to-cover-up-where-it-gets-info.shtml

      Short summary: The NSA gives DEA agents "anonymous tips" on which vehicles to "randomly" stop. This is never mentioned in court.

      Here's another one.

      http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130829/16135324356/court-says-feds-dont-have-to-reveal-secret-evidence-it-gathered-against-terror-suspect-using-fisa.shtml

      This time it's the courts saying that they don't have to show the evidence to the defendant or his lawyers. Not exactly the justice they taught in high school civics.

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      So lets pretend that we've just completed writing this code, as opposed to having just completed sabotaging it -Altera
  2. To think Microsoft once ... by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Interesting

    requested the ability to treat Windows security bug reporters as being in league with terrorists by invoking the Patriot Act.

    My head is spinning.

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    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  3. Good for the goose... by mschaffer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why can't MS and Google publish "metadata" on the number of FISA requests and number of accounts requested?
    If it is good for the goose, it's good for the gander.

    1. Re:Good for the goose... by cookYourDog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Like when NSA letter was delivered, who delivered it, the 5 closest contacts of the deliverer, and deliverer's favorite TV series?

  4. Too little, too late... by SeaFox · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Gee, thanx Microsoft and Google, for doing something..

    Where were the Champions of Justice when these requests first started coming to you?
    I see. It's different now that you've been exposed to the public as cooperating in all this.

    1. Re:Too little, too late... by kqs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Google, at least, has been fighting this for a while. Probably Microsoft too.

      You know, I often wonder why companies like Google even bother fighting for our privacy, when people like you are happy to whine and complain about them without looking into the facts. Why do they bother fighting the good fight when they know that no matter what they do, they'll be blamed and hated. Just think, your ignorance is helping the NSA and hurting Google and Microsoft. Bet you feel mighty proud.

      The solution, as always, is knowledge. Know who to support. Know who to vote for. Know what to write your congresscritters. Learn, and always assume that there is something you don't know so you have to learn more, and look behind the curtains.

  5. Thank you Edward Snowden by Alain+Williams · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am not saying that this would not have happened without his revelations, but I suspect that the feelings of antipathy that he has helped to stir up about the NSA & government spying have given companies more courage in pushing harder to challenge these things. Maybe for fear of loosing users if they are seen to cave in too easily, maybe because they really do want to do the right thing and feel that the tide might turn and make the effort worth while.

    1. Re:Thank you Edward Snowden by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Interesting

      No. Think about it for a moment.

      The NSA was within a hair's breadth of creating the most impressive cloud based uber-backup / social networking / information-wants-to-be-everywhere system ever devised. Had they had the sense to market it instead of hide it, people would have been all over themselves to sign up.

      Google and Microsoft have belatedly figured out that they're competing with the US Government. They didn't like that at all.

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  6. Just these two companies? by wjcofkc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I can think of more than a few other very large companies, who through the nature of the business they conduct, should be joining Microsoft and Google. This is a good start, but it would be nice to see a whole bunch of companies gang up on the government over this. It might also help the little guys stand up.

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  7. Metadata by Redbaran · · Score: 4, Funny

    Come on government, it's just metadata about your requests, what's the big deal?

  8. Re:Let's see the others by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Americans, enjoying your fascism yet?

    Sorry but I'm not allowed to answer that question.

  9. Re:Let's see the others by jopsen · · Score: 4, Informative

    Go ahead, convince us its better where you live.

    Get real...
    I live in Denmark, I have yet to hear about no-fly-lists, warrantless wiretapping exists only if
    1) waiting for a court order would imply loss of opportunity, however, the case must be presented
    before the courts within 24 hours.
    2) we're in a state of war, then the minister of defense can with authorize warrantless wiretapping.

    Source, answer by minister of justice (Danish):
    http://www.ft.dk/samling/20101/almdel/reu/spm/381/svar/762713/928490/index.htm?

    I'm not familiar with any secret courts, and seriously doubt that the European Court of Human Rights,
    to which my government answers, would look favorably upon secret courts.

    Also I'm pretty sure the intelligence services don't have authority to kill people, not foreign citizen, not Danish citizens,
    they don't even have the authority to help the American intelligence services commit murder, meaning sharing intelligence
    that would lead to murder, is not allowed...

    Looking a internet logging, the ISPs are required to log a lot of data, ie. every 20th session or so, by log I mean time and IPs not content.
    However, these cannot be accessed without court order, and are held by the ISPs not the agencies that would want to query them.