Online Law Banning Discussion of Current Affairs Comes Into Force In Vietnam

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Online Law Banning Discussion of Current Affairs Comes Into Force In Vietnam

Posted by samzenpus on Sunday September 1, 2013 @07:08AM from the watch-what-you-say dept.

another random user writes in with news about new internet restrictions come into effect in Vietnam. "A controversial law banning Vietnamese online users from discussing current affairs has come into effect. The decree, known as Decree 72, says blogs and social websites should not be used to share news articles, but only personal information. The law also requires foreign internet companies to keep their local servers inside Vietnam. The new law specifies that social networking sites such as Twitter and Facebook should only be used 'to provide and exchange personal information.' It also prohibits the online publication of material that "opposes" the Vietnamese government or 'harms national security.' Last month the US embassy in Hanoi said it was 'deeply concerned by the decree's provisions,' arguing that 'fundamental freedoms apply online just as they do offline.'"

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Pot calling kettle black by ckhorne · 2013-09-01 07:11 · Score: 5, Insightful

And the US is in a position to be talking about "fundamental freedoms"?
1. Re:Pot calling kettle black by MightyMartian · 2013-09-01 07:14 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  The US government is all for fundamental freedoms, providing your use of them can be logged, queried at will and used against you later.
  
  --
  The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
2. Re:Pot calling kettle black by 0123456 · 2013-09-01 07:23 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  The US government is all for fundamental freedoms, providing your use of them can be logged, queried at will and used against you later.
  Indeed. The US government wants everyone to talk about current affairs online, so they can easily flag and monitor the trouble-makers.
  The Vietnamese alternative is just so twentieth century.
3. Re:Pot calling kettle black by St.Creed · 2013-09-01 07:29 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  The US embassy in Hanoi is deeply concerned about the situation in Vietnam. Meanwhile, the Russian embassy is deeply concerned about the situation in the US. Meanwhile, the Turkish embassy was deeply concerned about the situation in Germany. Meanwhile...
  Every government is deeply concerned with the freedoms of someone else's citizens. Even Putin is probably deeply concerned about some foreign citizens somewhere.
  It really breaks my heart to see all our leaders so concerned for the welfare and freedom of citizens that don't live in their own country *sniff*.
  Although I don't think the US embassy is wrong here. This decree is ofcourse a blatant attack on the rights of the Vietnamese people to have a say in how their country is run, which is undesirable as far as the Vietnamese rulers are concerned. The fact they deemed it necessary to actually pronounce this decree, however, gives me great hopes for the future, since laws are mostly made about events that are happening. Even the laws in Hammurabi's codex give great insight of the problems the rulers had in these days with the opposition. And while this decree is a big step backward, it also shows huge trouble brewing for the Vietnamese government.
  
  --
  Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
4. Re:Pot calling kettle black by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2013-09-01 07:31 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  And the US is in a position to be talking about "fundamental freedoms"?
  Depressingly, they do tend to bat above average RE: free speech: The feds are unnervingly interested listeners; but the list of subjects you can't talk about is very short.
5. Re:Pot calling kettle black by Seumas · 2013-09-01 07:36 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  America's leaders just got a massive secret erection at the idea of doing this, themselves.
  The first step, they've been pushing for ages. Control who can become a "journalist". Then license them. Then punish anyone "practicing journalism without a license".
  Oooh gaaaawd! I think they just came!
6. Re:Pot calling kettle black by slick7 · 2013-09-01 07:45 · Score: 1
  
  As if the US was concerned about Vietnam when it escalated its presence during the 60's and 70's, while Americans died and are still dying, increasing drug trafficking into the US where more Americans died and are still dying, where corporate America found an easy way to make obscene untaxed profits to the extent that Americans are still fighting wars for profit and dying for their efforts, is this the US you mean?
  
  --
  The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
7. Re:Pot calling kettle black by wiredlogic · 2013-09-01 07:46 · Score: 2
  
  This decree is ofcourse a blatant attack on the rights of the Vietnamese people to have a say in how their country is run
  They don't have a say in how their country is run unless they climb to the top ranks of the party. Sort of like how the US is operated.
  
  --
  I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
8. Re:Pot calling kettle black by girlintraining · 2013-09-01 07:51 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  The US government is all for fundamental freedoms, providing your use of them can be logged, queried at will and used against you later.
  No, I'm afraid not. Let's go down the amendments one by one and see where we come out:
  First amendment: Freedom of speech and the press.
  The United States has no Journalistic shield law. Basically, if a whistleblower drops of some incriminating government documents, publication can land you in jail. Failing to reveal your source? That's a one-way trip to Guantanamo. Then there's the designated Free Speech Cages, surrounded by police, cameras, and barbed wire, and usually located far away from a place where your protect might be visible. Failure to protest within the cage will and you in a different cage. Don't worry -- they pre-construct them for all major events at nearby warehouses.
  The right to bear arms
  In New York and elsewhere... yeah, no. There are so many examples of the constant attempts to remove this or at least regulate it to the point it is effectively removed, I won't provide more examples. Go look them up yourself.
  Not having soldiers quartered in your home
  Yeah... a guy was recently arrested, beaten, and dragged out of his house for refusing to allow the police entry, so they could pitch a tent and enact surveillance of one of his neighbors. The story has since vanished off the internet, and very few sites still have any information on it.
  Unlawful search and seizure
  The Department of Homeland Security has granted itself the ability to declare arbitrary constitution-free zones, which cover approximately 80% of the US population -- as most of the population lives within 50 miles of one of the country's borders, and that's one of the areas covered.
  Right not to self-incriminate
  unless of course, the FBI thinks you might have child porn. ...
  I could go on, but I think you get the point: They're not for all fundamental freedoms... they just want them on paper, but not in reality. Subtle difference.
  
  --
  #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
9. Re:Pot calling kettle black by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-01 08:00 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Well, you are not allowed to report about the government committing crimes against wiretapping laws, you are not allowed to report about getting "National Security Letters" demanding to wiretap and keylog your entire infrastructure, you are not allowed to publish videos of soldiers having video-game style fun killing unarmed civilians.
  On the plus side, you can lie under oath with impunity to congress without fearing repercussions as long as you are not lying about sex affairs or sports but areas of actual national importance.
10. Re:Pot calling kettle black by St.Creed · 2013-09-01 08:02 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, that's the US I meant. I'll add [sarcasm] marks next time. Sorry!
  
  --
  Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
11. Re:Pot calling kettle black by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-01 08:09 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Hello, I'm posting this from Vietnam so I can't discuss your comment but I would like to tell you about my family:
  My uncle Acirema pretends to be a generous and liberal man but runs his family with an iron fist, monitoring all his kids activities. Yet he also likes to complain to everyone about how uncle Manteiv doesn't let his kids go out after school or talk to anyone.
  Uncle Manteiv meanwhile says he's doing it for his kids security and points out that aunt Aissur does worse by intercepting her kids emails and changing the content before they're sent out.
  Aunt Aissur herself had to give shelter to one of uncle Acirema's kids who was really scared of being brutally punished after telling his school mates about his dad's snoopings.
  Grandpa Anihc is the best, he also runs his household with an iron fist but readily admits to it.
  I'll be back later to tell you about how uncle Acimera wants to take over aunt Airys' house because she has the best apple trees in town. Of course he can't say that outright so he claims she poured bleach into her kids' soup, although rumor has it that the kids were the ones who tried to poison her instead.
12. Re:Pot calling kettle black by cold+fjord · 2013-09-01 08:18 · Score: 1
  
  Pot calling kettle black And the US is in a position to be talking about "fundamental freedoms"?
  I think pot is the best explanation for considering that insightful. I don't see how you don't see the difference between the US and Vietnam. Maybe you haven't heard, but communism tends to have a heavy hand.
  
  --
  much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
13. Re:Pot calling kettle black by cold+fjord · 2013-09-01 08:21 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Indeed. The US government wants everyone to talk about current affairs online, so they can easily flag and monitor the trouble-makers.
  Where " trouble-makers" is the set of people trying to use truck bombs, car bombs, and suicide vests, plus various experiments with poison gas and plague, to kill masses of innocent people, yes.
  
  --
  much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
14. Re:Pot calling kettle black by cold+fjord · 2013-09-01 08:40 · Score: 1
  
  You've apparently been kissing the blarney stone a few too many times again.
  You probably would straighten up with a whack from a shanene
  
  --
  much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
15. Re:Pot calling kettle black by phantomfive · 2013-09-01 08:44 · Score: 2
  
  Yeah... a guy was recently arrested, beaten, and dragged out of his house for refusing to allow the police entry, so they could pitch a tent and enact surveillance of one of his neighbors. The story has since vanished [huffingtonpost.com] off the internet, and very few sites still have any information on it.
  When that kind of story disappears off the internet, it's usually because it wasn't very reliable to begin with, and the original source was found to be a liar, or otherwise.
  
  With a 24-hour news cycle, it's easy to get up in stories and publish them without checking the sources first.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
16. Re:Pot calling kettle black by phantomfive · 2013-09-01 08:45 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Well, you are not allowed to report about the government committing crimes against wiretapping laws, you are not allowed to report about getting "National Security Letters" demanding to wiretap and keylog your entire infrastructure,
  That might not be true. It's in the courts right now, I fully expect it to be overturned.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
17. Re: Pot calling kettle black by DigiShaman · 2013-09-01 09:16 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Barbara Boxer already made a statement that you are not a journalist unless you draw a salary. This was in response to the topic of Internet blogging. Durbin and Harry Reid already weighed in on the same.
  http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/07/03/Durbin-Wants-Government-to-Decide-Who-is-a-Journalist
  
  --
  Life is not for the lazy.
18. Re:Pot calling kettle black by Sabriel · 2013-09-01 09:18 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/07/anthony-mitchell-lawsuit-third-amendment-_n_3557431.html
  http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/henderson.pdf - Case 2:13-cv-01154-APG-CWH United States District Court District of Nevada
  
  19. After Plaintiff ANTHONY MITCHELL refused to allow the police to enter his home, the De-fendant police officers, including Defendants SERGEANT MICHAEL WALLER, OFFICER DAVID CAWTHORN and OFFICER CHRISTOPHER WORLEY, conspired among themselves to force AN-THONY MITCHELL out of his residence and to occupy his home for their own use. Defendant OFFICER DAVID CAWTHORN outlined the Defendants’ plan in his official report:
  
  It was determined to move to 367 Evening Side and attempt to contact Mitchell. If Mitchell answered the door he would be asked to leave. If he refused to leave he would be arrested for Obstructing a Police Officer. If Mitchell refused to answer the door, force entry would be made and Mitchell would be arrested.
  That's a nice Catch-22 you've created there, Officer. Pity about that pesky Third Amendment (plaintiff is also suing under the Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments as well).
19. Re:Pot calling kettle black by phantomfive · 2013-09-01 09:25 · Score: 1
  
  That's fascinating. Poor guy.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
20. Re:Pot calling kettle black by MightyMartian · 2013-09-01 09:34 · Score: 1
  
  It's shitty, but I'm still not sure it violates the constitution, at least in the way the GP says it did.
  
  --
  The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
21. Re:Pot calling kettle black by Hadlock · 2013-09-01 09:45 · Score: 1
  
  They're only upset about this because the NSA didn't think of it first. Second, if you aren't discussing current events, how are they going to track citizens for abnormal opinions and mark them for additional surveillance?
  
  --
  moox. for a new generation.
22. Re:Pot calling kettle black by lxs · 2013-09-01 09:56 · Score: 1
  
  Don't mention the war.
23. Re:Pot calling kettle black by dmbasso · 2013-09-01 10:09 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Because no government would ever abuse such powers, turning into a totalitarian regime without hope of reverting back to democracy, right[U+2e2e]
  If you want to take the risk, then you're really stupid. Unless for you it is not a risk, but the objective. Then you're waaaay more stupid than I thought.
  
  --
  `echo $[0x853204FA81]|tr 0-9 ionbsdeaml`@gmail.com
24. Re:Pot calling kettle black by Zero__Kelvin · 2013-09-01 10:27 · Score: 2
  
  ... you forgot those that want to fly on and airplane and have views that aren't in line with government double-think, those who would expose the unconstitutional behavior of the government, and generally anyone who doesn't think like a fascist. Don't forget those "trouble makers". After all, they're the worst kind. They support terrorism!
  
  --
  Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
25. Re:Pot calling kettle black by Type44Q · 2013-09-01 10:30 · Score: 1
  
  Where " trouble-makers" is the set of people trying to use truck bombs, car bombs, and suicide vests, plus various experiments with poison gas and plague, to kill masses of innocent people, yes.
  Sure, because there's so much to gain tactically and strategically for someone to engage in such behavior. :p
  Seriously, Fjord; you need to change your username (and your strawman; he's looking a trifle piqued); as I repeatedly told you, you've been outed.
  Oh, and think about telling Uncle Sam that you want Sundays off. :p
26. Re:Pot calling kettle black by cheekyjohnson · 2013-09-01 10:52 · Score: 1
  
  The label of "trouble-maker" applies to anyone the government, or individuals in the government, feel like targeting. If the government can get away with abusing its powers, and it is beneficial to do so, you'd better count on it happening.
  
  --
  Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
27. Re:Pot calling kettle black by c0lo · 2013-09-01 11:10 · Score: 1
  
  Where " trouble-makers" is the set of people trying to use truck bombs, car bombs, and suicide vests, plus various experiments with poison gas and plague, to kill masses of innocent people, yes.
  Ummm... some would say US is happily in bed with such trouble makers.
  But this can't be true... or can it?
  
  --
  Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
28. Re:Pot calling kettle black by gweihir · 2013-09-01 11:18 · Score: 1
  
  Understandably, the US administration is envious that the Vietnamese are so far ahead in online censorship. Expect the US to start the same in 5-10 years.
  
  --
  Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
29. Re:Pot calling kettle black by cold+fjord · 2013-09-01 11:18 · Score: 1
  
  I doubt it for these reasons.
  The Russian government continues to cover the back of the Syrian government as it has for decades.
  Hama 1982 – The Syrian massacre you never heard about
  
  --
  much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
30. Re:Pot calling kettle black by c0lo · 2013-09-01 11:25 · Score: 2
  
  The Russian government continues to cover the back of the Syrian government as it has for decades.
  I can't stop to notice that US does pretty much the same with the Saudi house (sort like a proxy war but instead of communism vs free world, it's now Sunni vs Shia).
  What doesn't make sense to me: is the Saudi house less interested in re-establishing the caliphate?
  
  --
  Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
31. Re:Pot calling kettle black by slick7 · 2013-09-01 11:56 · Score: 1
  
  Don't mention the war.
  WAR!
  
  --
  The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
32. Re:Pot calling kettle black by ShanghaiBill · 2013-09-01 12:01 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  The United States has no Journalistic shield law
  Journalistic shield laws are a terrible idea. The freedom to speak and publish is a right shared by everyone. There should not be a special group of government approved "journalists" that have special rights that are denied to other citizens.
33. Re:Pot calling kettle black by c0lo · 2013-09-01 12:20 · Score: 1
  
  Ummm... some would say US is happily in bed with such trouble makers.
  I doubt it for these reasons.
  The Russian government continues to cover the back of the Syrian government as it has for decades.
  Ummm... yeah. Seems that I'm not alone not buying it.
  * Syria strike would turn US into 'al Qaeda's air force'
  * Obama's obsession with Syria
  Who would benefit from US involvement?
  What does the Saud house have at hand to force US into this conflict and on their side?
  
  --
  Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
34. Re:Pot calling kettle black by AHuxley · 2013-09-01 12:28 · Score: 1
  
  We are only talking about and adding to what is in the free UK/US press, linking to free sites, not paywalls.
  Is that really so bad of us?
  
  --
  Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
35. Re:Pot calling kettle black by amirulbahr · 2013-09-01 12:28 · Score: 2
  
  In Vietnam, government says, "Don't say that shit online!"
  In the Free World, government says, "Go ahead! Say that shit online. We're watching..."
36. Re:Pot calling kettle black by AHuxley · 2013-09-01 12:31 · Score: 1
  
  Yes a few parts of the world added on the need for a university degree to even start out as a journalist.
  
  --
  Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
37. Re:Pot calling kettle black by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2013-09-01 14:41 · Score: 2
  
  Oh, don't get me wrong: the US 'intelligence community' is rotten to the core, as are its major corporate collaborators, and some theoretically not intelligence agencies that have taken on the ugly trappings of one (Is there any aspect of the 'war on drugs' that hasn't been a total clusterfuck for America and Americans, much less some of the poor bastards in countries we don't even pretend to care about?) are in the same boat. The FBI, of course, never really had a non-dangerously-corrupt-and-abusive period in its entire history, so it's harder to say that it has 'rotted' in any meaningful way.
  
  However, I'm hard pressed to think of any countries where pissing off the clandestine services is legal, or where they don't treat legal restraint as an inconvenience to be avoided (at best, some lucky countries may simply have relatively vestigial and underdeveloped ones); and I'm hard pressed to think of countries that don't also have additional restrictions on speech (whether it be Britain's ghastly libel laws, 'hate speech', being a nazi, assorted vague 'materials contrary to social order and security' things, blasphemy/offending religious sentiments restrictions, 'gay propaganda', etc, etc.) that the US doesn't have.
  
  We (among others) need to shoot a lot of spooks if we want to even pretend at rule of law, representative democracy, or other cute concepts; but we have atypically narrow restrictions outside of that context.
38. Re:Pot calling kettle black by MaskedSlacker · 2013-09-01 16:15 · Score: 2
  
  Don't mention the war.
  WAR!
  What is it good for?
39. Re:Pot calling kettle black by TapeCutter · 2013-09-01 17:18 · Score: 1
  
  turning into a totalitarian regime without hope of reverting back to democracy
  While on the subject of "stupid" - If it was impossible to change from a totalitarian state to a democratic one, there would be no democratic states in the first place.
  
  --
  And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
40. Re:Pot calling kettle black by MaskedSlacker · 2013-09-01 18:19 · Score: 2
  
  Having been to both, I'd pick Vietnam any day. Foreigners at least are treated much better there, by everyone (not just the government).
41. Re:Pot calling kettle black by Dave+Emami · 2013-09-01 19:33 · Score: 1
  
  And the US is in a position to be talking about "fundamental freedoms"?
  Sigh. Is there ever going to be a political discussion on Slashdot without someone using the tu quoque fallacy?
  
  --
  
  "The Greens lynched a hacker in Chicago. Last month, but I think the body's still hanging from the old Water Tower."
42. Re:Pot calling kettle black by shentino · 2013-09-01 19:46 · Score: 1
  
  Takes one to know one.
43. Re:Pot calling kettle black by drkim · 2013-09-01 21:26 · Score: 1
  
  And the US is in a position to be talking about "fundamental freedoms"?
  Otto: "Shut up. We didn't lose Vietnam. It was a tie!"
  Archie: "I'm tellin' ya baby, they kicked your little ass there. Boy, they whooped yer hide REAL good!"
44. Re:Pot calling kettle black by dmbasso · 2013-09-01 21:30 · Score: 1
  
  Is it impossible for you to realize you're wrong? No. Do I have any hope it will happen? I don't think so.
  And you know, there is this figure of speech called "hyperbole", used to emphasize an idea, perhaps you should study it.
  So it's good we kept on the subject of "stupid", others might learn from your mistake.
  
  --
  `echo $[0x853204FA81]|tr 0-9 ionbsdeaml`@gmail.com
45. Re:Pot calling kettle black by sgt_doom · 2013-09-02 04:12 · Score: 1
  
  St. Creed obviously has a functioning mind. Such an individual must be immediately hunted down . . . .
46. Re:Pot calling kettle black by girlintraining · 2013-09-02 05:18 · Score: 1
  
  Journalistic shield laws are a terrible idea. The freedom to speak and publish is a right shared by everyone. There should not be a special group of government approved "journalists" that have special rights that are denied to other citizens.
  That sound was the point going over your head. The government isn't establishing a special group of "government approved journalists". Journalistic shield laws allow anyone to publish with the option of keeping their source private. However, only people who regularly publish and have earned a reputation for honestly are likely to be taken seriously... and as a result, people who do regularly publish are greatest at risk for censure from the government.
  J. Random Blogger doesn't have much to worry about if he says "a confidential source told me the NSA is spying on everyone." but the editor in chief of the Washington Post saying has quite a bit.
  
  --
  #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
47. Re:Pot calling kettle black by slick7 · 2013-09-02 06:13 · Score: 1
  
  Don't mention the war.
  WAR!
  What is it good for?
  Absolutely nothin'
  
  --
  The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
48. Re:Pot calling kettle black by cold+fjord · 2013-09-02 14:03 · Score: 2
  
  Uncertainty tends to disappear when they leave a suicide testimony video.
  
  --
  much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
49. Re:Pot calling kettle black by Meski · 2013-09-02 17:34 · Score: 1
  
  The US government is all for fundamental freedoms, providing your use of them can be logged, queried at will and used against you later.
  Indeed. The US government wants everyone to talk about current affairs online, so they can easily flag and monitor the trouble-makers.
  The Vietnamese alternative is just so honest.
  Fixed.
50. Re:Pot calling kettle black by Meski · 2013-09-02 17:37 · Score: 1
  
  Indeed. The US government wants everyone to talk about current affairs online, so they can easily flag and monitor the trouble-makers.
  Where " trouble-makers" is the set of people trying to use truck bombs, car bombs, and suicide vests, plus various experiments with poison gas and plague, to kill masses of innocent people, yes.
  Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
  
  We've certainly 'progressed' since then.
51. Re:Pot calling kettle black by cold+fjord · 2013-09-03 14:00 · Score: 1
  
  Those who would quote Benjamin Franklin without understanding that he opened other American's mail for intelligence purposes, and that George Washington ran a spy ring that operated in the Colonies, aren't likely to get the question of Essential Liberty or Safety correct.
  People in the US have lost no essential liberties.
  
  --
  much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
52. Re:Pot calling kettle black by cold+fjord · 2013-09-03 14:06 · Score: 1
  
  The US has been willing to protect the territorial integrity of Saudi Arabia. It doesn't really take sides between Sunni and Shia. You may note that Iraq is primarily Shia and the US worked to protect it. Iran is overwhelmingly Shia and the US was allied with it until the Islamic Revolution.
  I doubt the House of Saud is strongly interested in reestablishing the Caliphate since they would have to pledge fealty to it. Al Qaida considers the House of Saud to be bad rulers, not Islamic enough in the right way for their tastes. As a result al Qaida has long been trying to overthrow the Kingdom.
  
  --
  much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
53. Re:Pot calling kettle black by Meski · 2013-09-03 14:42 · Score: 1
  
  So you're asserting that because he opened other people's mail, that he's wrong about essential liberty? (perhaps it makes him hypocritical, though) How do you define liberty, then? The right to have your communications read without court sanction?
54. Re:Pot calling kettle black by c0lo · 2013-09-04 11:25 · Score: 1
  
  You may note that Iraq is primarily Shia and the US worked to protect it.
  Can you elaborate? I'm confused as how come the war on Iraq can qualify as protection.
  
  I doubt the House of Saud is strongly interested in reestablishing the Caliphate since they would have to pledge fealty to it.
  Unless the House of Saud delivers the caliph. Which, based on its military potential, would not surprise me or others.
  
  Al Qaida considers the House of Saud to be bad rulers, not Islamic enough in the right way for their tastes. As a result al Qaida has long been trying to overthrow the Kingdom.
  Doesn't stop them from being financed now and then by the bad rulers, does it?
  
  --
  Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
Say it LOUDER! by SuperTechnoNerd · 2013-09-01 07:14 · Score: 1

Repeat after me: "fundamental freedoms apply online just as they do offline"
1. Re:Say it LOUDER! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2013-09-01 07:33 · Score: 2
  
  Repeat after me: "fundamental freedoms apply online just as they do offline"
  
  Indeed, comrade, we agree and are just moving to harmonize our regulations of the internet with our repressive system of informants and physical surveillance!
2. Re:Say it LOUDER! by Seumas · 2013-09-01 07:39 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly. Which is to say, you enjoy your fundamental freedoms online and offline at the whim and discretion of the government.
backwards by aahpandasrun · 2013-09-01 07:19 · Score: 1

Banning everything except for sharing personal information? That's a little backwards
We should invade by The_Star_Child · 2013-09-01 07:24 · Score: 5, Funny

We should invade Vietnam to teach them a lesson.
1. Re:We should invade by blue+trane · 2013-09-01 07:34 · Score: 2
  
  How about use satellites, or balloons, or drones, to give them free uncensored internet, and let them exercise their unalienable right to liberty regardless of what their government says?
  We could do it in Syria, too. Why aren't we discussing nonviolent options?
2. Re:We should invade by Seumas · 2013-09-01 07:40 · Score: 1
  
  I presume you're being sarcastic, but Vietnam's leading export is crude oil.
3. Re:We should invade by slick7 · 2013-09-01 07:53 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  I presume you're being sarcastic, but Vietnam's leading export is crude oil.
  Which is the "WHY" of the Vietnam war from its inception.
  
  --
  The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
4. Re:We should invade by coolsnowmen · 2013-09-01 08:34 · Score: 1
  
  You are wrong, do some research or substantiate your claims.
  The US has been involved in the politics of Vietnam since the end of world war 2. Paranoia and fear of [the spread of] communism are the reason the US went into Vietnam.
  If you were correct, why don't we actully get any oil from there? http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/01/19/where-the-u-s-gets-its-oil-imports-in-one-map/
5. Re:We should invade by mlookaba · 2013-09-01 08:50 · Score: 1
  
  Wow. I guess everything I read over the last 40 years is wrong then. Oh, BTW, care to back that up with any facts?
6. Re:We should invade by cold+fjord · 2013-09-01 08:56 · Score: 1
  
  For a time Vietnam's leading export was crude oil. Now the leading export is computers, phones, and parts, with textiles being second.
  
  --
  much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
7. Re:We should invade by cold+fjord · 2013-09-01 08:59 · Score: 2
  
  I presume you're being sarcastic, but Vietnam's leading export is crude oil.
  Which is the "WHY" of the Vietnam war from its inception.
  That's pretty unlikely since oil wasn't discovered in Vietnamese waters until 1975, and Vietnam had been at war pretty much since the Japanese invasion in the 1940s.
  Do you have a theory about Korea? Where are the big oil fields there? Or is that just another case of the US preventing a communist takeover of mountain covered land instead of jungle covered land?
  
  --
  much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
8. Re:We should invade by R3d+M3rcury · 2013-09-01 10:49 · Score: 1
  
  We didn't lose! It was a tie!
9. Re:We should invade by slick7 · 2013-09-01 12:08 · Score: 1
  
  If you were correct, why don't we actully get any oil from there? http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/01/19/where-the-u-s-gets-its-oil-imports-in-one-map/
  The drug connection was more lucrative. Afghanistan, Turkey, the Golder Triangle are the main sources of opium and heroin, South America marijauna and cocaine, Central America and Mexico are the conduits for said drugs into the US via military and CIA flights. As to citations, no.
  
  --
  The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
10. Re:We should invade by slick7 · 2013-09-01 12:25 · Score: 1
  
  According to your article, oil was "discovered" in 1975. For an oil company to even drill an exploratory well, there has to be some assurance of the well producing. Athough the article states the time of discovery, it says nothing about when it was first understood that oil was there. It takes many weeks or months to set up an oil rig let alone where to drill. Taking seismic readings and interpreting them takes many more weeks. I knew about the oil while on Yankee station, not alot to read, but will read any and everything. I'm sure it was a magazine article.
  
  --
  The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
11. Re:We should invade by AHuxley · 2013-09-01 12:53 · Score: 1
  
  Preventing a communist takeover? Do you recall the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1955_State_of_Vietnam_referendum part?
  
  --
  Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
12. Re:We should invade by TapeCutter · 2013-09-01 18:04 · Score: 1
  
  As Winston Churchill once said something along the lines of... You can rely on the Americans to do the right thing, after they have tried everything else. Point 6 (asking for congressional approval to go to war) is the RightThingToDo(TM). What you seem to be suggesting is that the POTUS should be able to do whatever the fuck he wants without consulting anyone, ie: a king or a dictator that barks orders. That's fine if you want that, but most of us want a democratic leader who is forced to answer to his fellow citizens before commiting them to war.
  
  --
  And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
13. Re:We should invade by TheSeatOfMyPants · 2013-09-01 19:19 · Score: 1
  
  You should study the Vietnam War before you write a troll post that sounds *that* uninformed. The USA left because of things like this:
  -- Most young men drafted (often straight out of high school) were returning either dead, maimed or with severe PTSD & addictions to government-supplied hardcore drugs. Many of the survivors killed themselves over the atrocities they'd been forced to commit.
  -- Mass media stopped covering up the mess & showed the public what *really* was going on, like LIFE Magazine's coverage (keep in mind that movies/TV weren't at all violent, so this kind of thing was a horrible shock).
  -- Public sentiment turned so aggressively against the war (especially after the National Guard killed 4 students) that politicians they elected to end the war didn't dare fail to live up to their promises.
  That's what I know about, at least -- I wasn't born until the late 70s and, frankly, I sucked ass at history as a student. :-p
  To quote a famous protest song:
  Well, come on mothers across the land,
  Pack your boys off to Vietnam!
  Come on fathers, don't hesitate,
  Send your sons off before its too late!
  Be the first one on your block
  To have your boy come home in a box.
  And it's one, two, three,
  What are we fighting for?
  Don't ask me -- I don't give a damn,
  The next stop is Vietnam.
  And it's five, six, seven,
  Open up the pearly gates!
  Well, there ain't no time to wonder why,
  Whoopee, we're all gonna die!
  
  --
  Now mostly at Usenet:comp.misc & SoylentNews.org (it's made of people!)
14. Re:We should invade by TheSeatOfMyPants · 2013-09-01 19:33 · Score: 1
  
  Preventing a communist takeover? Do you recall the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1955_State_of_Vietnam_referendum part?
  Cold fjord was likely referencing the Vietnam War, which was basically a case of the US getting into a lengthly war in hope of keeping North Vietnam from taking over jungle-filled South Vietnam and imposing communist rule.
  
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  Now mostly at Usenet:comp.misc & SoylentNews.org (it's made of people!)
But then by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-01 07:33 · Score: 1

How are they supposed to tell people what they're not supposed to talk about?
Re:First Rule of Vietnam by MightyMartian · 2013-09-01 07:34 · Score: 1

In Communist Vietnam, Streisand's you!

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This oppressive law.. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-01 07:49 · Score: 1

.. will hinder the NSA from finding out what's going in Vietnam.
Just anothr day in vietnam by Joeypwnsjoo · 2013-09-01 07:51 · Score: 1

There's so many reports of Censorship in Vietnam it basically shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.
Interesting by asamad · 2013-09-01 07:52 · Score: 1

Could the servers be hosted in the US embassy ? that within in vietnam might not be Vietnam soil but
1. Re:Interesting by AHuxley · 2013-09-01 12:40 · Score: 1
  
  Most of the worlds telco equipment is/was standardised to help the police and fight/track terrorism.
  Then add in the fast/lower cost deep packet inspection products that are exported from the free "West".
  So the average person in Vietnam would be watched at an internet cafe, have their home internet logged.
  Even if you can use the internet without glowing keywords or visiting blocked sites, its like the US effort, the gov is in your ISP for that first hop out.
  
  --
  Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
There's an obvious solution... by evilviper · 2013-09-01 07:58 · Score: 4, Funny

We should send in the military to help out those poor oppressed people. Sure, an invasion is excessive and would look bad, but we could certainly send in a few "advisors" under the radar, and see how that goes...

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only applies to vietnamese citizens? by 0111+1110 · 2013-09-01 07:59 · Score: 2

I wonder if this law also prohibits foreigners in Vietnam from posting information about current events (like this new law for instance). I also wonder what kinds of things they will interpret as reducing "national security". Are they going to start shutting down internet cafes now or just require ID in order to use a computer there and introduce mandatory video surveillance etc? It really is too bad that America lost the war there. America had no business being there in the first place but this sort of thing is ugly.

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Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
Pot is far blacker than the kettle. by couchslug · 2013-09-01 08:47 · Score: 2

"And the US is in a position to be talking about "fundamental freedoms"?" to a country whose people it slaughtered while fighting to impose a neo-colonial government?

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What do you expect when our businesses by ralphaostrander · 2013-09-01 08:50 · Score: 1

Would rather do business with Communist than in our own trickle down economy.
my personal problem is ... by Skapare · 2013-09-01 09:00 · Score: 1

... with evil leaders of Vietnam who are not representing the Vietnamese people at all.

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now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
There's a simple solution by maroberts · 2013-09-01 09:19 · Score: 1

I think the US should send thousands of troops to 'Nam to ensure freedom and liberty. It worked last time, didn't it.... :-P

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Karma: Chameleon
1. Re:There's a simple solution by TheSeatOfMyPants · 2013-09-01 19:56 · Score: 1
  
  Well, according to a troll upthread, we supposedly won, so sure, why not -- we could even tweak the draft rules to say that only STEM majors will be exempt, thus fixing the shortage of STEM workers by 'encouraging' a whole generation to major in it! /tongue-in-cheek
  
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  Now mostly at Usenet:comp.misc & SoylentNews.org (it's made of people!)
fuckthisworld by duke_cheetah2003 · 2013-09-01 09:27 · Score: 2

Is this a new tag? I've never seen before, but I definitely approve.
Re:We should evade by blue+trane · 2013-09-01 09:53 · Score: 1

Yes, our govt should provide free internet. And we need to vote out the bums who support surveillance, It's up to us; power resides in We the People.
Re:To the Vietnamese government by lxs · 2013-09-01 10:07 · Score: 1

You have to hand it to them. "Decree 72" sounds deliciously Orwellian.
English, Motherfucker! by FuzzNugget · 2013-09-01 10:52 · Score: 2

Do you speak it?
The law itself is not "online." Perhaps it is by a matter of incidence (it is likely published online, on a government website), but not inheritance; and surely not what you meant by your choice of phrasing.
It is categorically an idea, not a physical noun, and therefore, cannot be contained within something. It certainly can't be entirely contained "online."
The title should be: Law Banning Online Discussion of Current Affairs Comes into Effect.
Phrasing is important. Words mean shit.
This must be where Huffington Post is moving by gelfling · 2013-09-01 11:14 · Score: 1

Criticism of Dear Leader is of course, treason. All Hail Barry.
Re:In America most news is disreported through Fox by TheSeatOfMyPants · 2013-09-01 20:43 · Score: 1

No, we still have free/open discussion, as it's still perfectly legal to write about current events online -- the fact that mainstream sources are no longer reliable is completely separate, as people like us tend to find more accurate/honest coverage elsewhere. If we didn't have free/open discussion, you and I wouldn't dare to have this conversation, as it would lead to some kind of horrible government-imposed punishment.

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Now mostly at Usenet:comp.misc & SoylentNews.org (it's made of people!)
Oh wow, doods. . . by sgt_doom · 2013-09-02 04:11 · Score: 1

. . .does this mean the American-based multinationals will halt the offshoring of jobs to that totalitarian paradise?

Oops! Sorry, forgot they LOVE such countries!
At least the Vietnamese provide a warning ! by fygment · 2013-09-02 04:12 · Score: 1

Fundamental freedoms? Like the freedom for your personal correspondance to be captured and scrutinized, without your knowledge, as if you were presumed to be guilty, regardless of whether you actually are American or not? That fundamental freedom?
Whether you are forbidden to speak or your speech is watched for unstated transgressions, it amounts to the same infringement. At least the Vietnamese government has provided a warning and some direction as to what is acceptable.

--
"Consensus" in science is _always_ a political construct.